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It's a sin....big pharma
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them."
If you look at goldmans sachs interview with big pharma, you can see what they think of it too and this was in 2018, 2 years before this.
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
And you wonder why some people don’t trust the motives and ethics of big pharma when it comes to these very quickly developed Covid vaccines! I mean it is not as if big pharma have previous now is it?
Disclaimer - I (we) am not an anti vaxxer |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.If you look at goldmans sachs interview with big pharma, you can see what they think of it too and this was in 2018, 2 years before this."
Goldman Sachs know how to make money dont they? 
Didn't their CEO say he did Gods work, Lloyd Blankfein. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.The Arcadia group didn't make a profit. It didn't work out well for them."
Difference between making a profit and have enormous profit margins though!
Plus I wouldn’t say the ethical argument is quite on the same level between a clothing retailer and drug company |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That’s capitalism for you.
In a nutshell."
Goldman Sachs also involved in the Derivatives scandals leading up to the Financial crash of 2007.
Bundling up mortgage back securities, getting them Triple A rated, selling them to investors......knowing their a parcel of shite.
Then betting against them lol
You've got to love Lloyd Blankfein. |
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"That’s capitalism for you.
In a nutshell.
Goldman Sachs also involved in the Derivatives scandals leading up to the Financial crash of 2007.
Bundling up mortgage back securities, getting them Triple A rated, selling them to investors......knowing their a parcel of shite.
Then betting against them lol
You've got to love Lloyd Blankfein."
Doesnt that go back to the deregulation in the 80s? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That’s capitalism for you.
In a nutshell.
Goldman Sachs also involved in the Derivatives scandals leading up to the Financial crash of 2007.
Bundling up mortgage back securities, getting them Triple A rated, selling them to investors......knowing their a parcel of shite.
Then betting against them lol
You've got to love Lloyd Blankfein.
Doesnt that go back to the deregulation in the 80s?"
In November 1999, President Bill Jefferson Clinton publicly declared "the Glass–Steagall law is no longer appropriate"
Good old Bill
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????"
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration."
Free Market Capitalism is fine, Gloldman Sachs knows everything!
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"prepare yourselves for the handing back of furlough money and then some via the income tax system. another disaster capiltalism win "
Sunak is going to screw people. There are c.3m self employed and micro Ltd Co Directors who got no support at all. You watch a big tax burden now fall onto them.
There simply has not been help for all that need it but you can be sure everyone will be expected to “do their bit to pay back cost of covid”
Saying that morally as a society we should help one another. So I am assuming the apathy around the cash for cronies will start causing some real anger and we see some prison sentences (as that has added to the budget challenges) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"prepare yourselves for the handing back of furlough money and then some via the income tax system. another disaster capiltalism win
Sunak is going to screw people. There are c.3m self employed and micro Ltd Co Directors who got no support at all. You watch a big tax burden now fall onto them.
There simply has not been help for all that need it but you can be sure everyone will be expected to “do their bit to pay back cost of covid”
Saying that morally as a society we should help one another. So I am assuming the apathy around the cash for cronies will start causing some real anger and we see some prison sentences (as that has added to the budget challenges)"
Rishi Sunak,former Goldman Sachs banker. The revolving door.  |
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"prepare yourselves for the handing back of furlough money and then some via the income tax system. another disaster capiltalism win
Sunak is going to screw people. There are c.3m self employed and micro Ltd Co Directors who got no support at all. You watch a big tax burden now fall onto them.
There simply has not been help for all that need it but you can be sure everyone will be expected to “do their bit to pay back cost of covid”
Saying that morally as a society we should help one another. So I am assuming the apathy around the cash for cronies will start causing some real anger and we see some prison sentences (as that has added to the budget challenges)"
They have already stated that those who can most afford it wont be touched.
People are not arsed that they have given billions to their mates..its much easier to point the finger at whoever the daily mail tells them too. |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
M works in construction, his company specialise in building pharmaceutical research plants.
Their last build project was close to £200 million, that didn't include the land, the cost of running the plant, as well as staff costs for God knows how many years until they had a product to take to market.
Years of research, testing, not to mention world wide licensing, approvals and patents.
Did the programme mention any of that?
E |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration."
. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world. |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world. "
E |
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world. "
So you think where peoples health is concerned, ethics should be completely irrelevant? |
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world. "
When you say socialist dreamland..are you talking about some sort of scenario where a nationalised industry has to roll out a huge project to the entire population? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world.
So you think where peoples health is concerned, ethics should be completely irrelevant?"
. Thats not my point. Put very simply we don’t expect doctors and nurses etc to work for no return and thats all about peoples health. Clearly though in some peoples mind it would be very convenient if pharma companies and their employees etc do work for free, simply because it’s conveniently considered ethical. It’s the same old socialist mantra. |
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world.
So you think where peoples health is concerned, ethics should be completely irrelevant?. Thats not my point. Put very simply we don’t expect doctors and nurses etc to work for no return and thats all about peoples health. Clearly though in some peoples mind it would be very convenient if pharma companies and their employees etc do work for free, simply because it’s conveniently considered ethical. It’s the same old socialist mantra. "
I don't see anyone suggesting people should work for free. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world.
When you say socialist dreamland..are you talking about some sort of scenario where a nationalised industry has to roll out a huge project to the entire population?"
. Nope. I’m talking about the dimwits who want “other people” to take financial risks,work hard and hand over the benefits of their efforts. |
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world.
When you say socialist dreamland..are you talking about some sort of scenario where a nationalised industry has to roll out a huge project to the entire population?. Nope. I’m talking about the dimwits who want “other people” to take financial risks,work hard and hand over the benefits of their efforts."
Again..I cant see where anyone who has suggested that. |
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"I’m talking about the dimwits who want “other people” to take financial risks,work hard and hand over the benefits of their efforts."
the politics of jealousy are being spoken by the right yet again. |
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By *corpioMan
over a year ago
London |
"Makes you think about a compulsory "vaccine " for a virus with a 99% survival rate (majority of cases)"
When you are clearly ignorant on a subject you have two options, remain quiet and leave people guessing or speak up and dispel any doubt (that you are clearly ignorant). So easy to go for the first option, yet most people go for the second  |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world. "
I don’t think anybody has suggested a private sector organisation should not make a profit but what you should look into is profit margins and consider the scale of those on ethical grounds.
Also in the case of Covid have a look at the huge investment made into big pharma by states across the world. Everyone cites that huge investment as the primary reason for how quickly the Covid vaccines have been brought to market.
Also consider that AZ are indeed providing at cost (though I suspect they are playing the long game and will make their profits from an ongoing booster programme that is inevitable).
Why can’t Pfizer do the same? |
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world.
I don’t think anybody has suggested a private sector organisation should not make a profit but what you should look into is profit margins and consider the scale of those on ethical grounds.
Also in the case of Covid have a look at the huge investment made into big pharma by states across the world. Everyone cites that huge investment as the primary reason for how quickly the Covid vaccines have been brought to market.
Also consider that AZ are indeed providing at cost (though I suspect they are playing the long game and will make their profits from an ongoing booster programme that is inevitable).
Why can’t Pfizer do the same?"
Yes they can make a huge amount in the western world, they could be allowing it to be manufactured under licence generically. I think their manufacturing process might be a bit more difficult which could be a limiting factor in the short term. Even a couple of pennies per dose manufactured under license would produce massive amounts of money when you look at the scale of production required for the world.
Some countries will just copy it anyhow I guess, if they have the capability, I'd wish Pfizer good luck with a copyright or patent infringement case in China.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Makes you think about a compulsory "vaccine " for a virus with a 99% survival rate (majority of cases)
When you are clearly ignorant on a subject you have two options, remain quiet and leave people guessing or speak up and dispel any doubt (that you are clearly ignorant). So easy to go for the first option, yet most people go for the second "
. And even dimmer idiots just come out with silly platitudes that they think make themselves look clever. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world.
I don’t think anybody has suggested a private sector organisation should not make a profit but what you should look into is profit margins and consider the scale of those on ethical grounds.
Also in the case of Covid have a look at the huge investment made into big pharma by states across the world. Everyone cites that huge investment as the primary reason for how quickly the Covid vaccines have been brought to market.
Also consider that AZ are indeed providing at cost (though I suspect they are playing the long game and will make their profits from an ongoing booster programme that is inevitable).
Why can’t Pfizer do the same?
Yes they can make a huge amount in the western world, they could be allowing it to be manufactured under licence generically. I think their manufacturing process might be a bit more difficult which could be a limiting factor in the short term. Even a couple of pennies per dose manufactured under license would produce massive amounts of money when you look at the scale of production required for the world.
Some countries will just copy it anyhow I guess, if they have the capability, I'd wish Pfizer good luck with a copyright or patent infringement case in China.
"
Yep your right there will be generic versions across the world.
But still the poorest countries will miss out...and a lot will be due to misinformation I would guess  |
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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.The Arcadia group didn't make a profit. It didn't work out well for them.
Difference between making a profit and have enormous profit margins though!
Plus I wouldn’t say the ethical argument is quite on the same level between a clothing retailer and drug company "
I am sure Phillip Green is grateful for your support as he counts his money on his yacht in Monaco, whilst the pensions of former employees dwindle away, nope no money made here...and we are all in this together don’t forget. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.The Arcadia group didn't make a profit. It didn't work out well for them.
Difference between making a profit and have enormous profit margins though!
Plus I wouldn’t say the ethical argument is quite on the same level between a clothing retailer and drug company
I am sure Phillip Green is grateful for your support as he counts his money on his yacht in Monaco, whilst the pensions of former employees dwindle away, nope no money made here...and we are all in this together don’t forget."
Was that aimed at me?
No supporter of Philip Green. He is scum the way he treated staff, destroyed pensions and paid no tax.
The discussion was on whether big pharma should make profits and my point is that sure they should but the margin should be ethical. |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"Makes you think about a compulsory "vaccine " for a virus with a 99% survival rate (majority of cases)"
12 months in, a wealth of research, reams of data and people are still saying stupid things.
E |
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.The Arcadia group didn't make a profit. It didn't work out well for them."
The arcadia group weren't given free patents by governments , then the same governments outlawing much cheaper generic alternatives. Big pharma literally kill people to protect their profits |
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"M works in construction, his company specialise in building pharmaceutical research plants.
Their last build project was close to £200 million, that didn't include the land, the cost of running the plant, as well as staff costs for God knows how many years until they had a product to take to market.
Years of research, testing, not to mention world wide licensing, approvals and patents.
Did the programme mention any of that?
Pharmaceuticals spend more than double on marketing vs research. Did you notice that?
E"
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.. Obviously. Why else would they do it ????
I guess because if we are talking about medicines there are ethical issues to be taken into consideration.. So do you want to put up large amounts of money to run a massive very risky business purely on ethical grounds ? Would you hand over the benefits of all your work and financial input for no return and still take the hit if it all failed. Ethical issues are fine in some socialist dream world.
I don’t think anybody has suggested a private sector organisation should not make a profit but what you should look into is profit margins and consider the scale of those on ethical grounds.
Also in the case of Covid have a look at the huge investment made into big pharma by states across the world. Everyone cites that huge investment as the primary reason for how quickly the Covid vaccines have been brought to market.
Also consider that AZ are indeed providing at cost (though I suspect they are playing the long game and will make their profits from an ongoing booster programme that is inevitable).
Why can’t Pfizer do the same?
Yes they can make a huge amount in the western world, they could be allowing it to be manufactured under licence generically. I think their manufacturing process might be a bit more difficult which could be a limiting factor in the short term. Even a couple of pennies per dose manufactured under license would produce massive amounts of money when you look at the scale of production required for the world.
Some countries will just copy it anyhow I guess, if they have the capability, I'd wish Pfizer good luck with a copyright or patent infringement case in China.
"
How about Africa?
Ps China had a vaccine first |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"M works in construction, his company specialise in building pharmaceutical research plants.
Their last build project was close to £200 million, that didn't include the land, the cost of running the plant, as well as staff costs for God knows how many years until they had a product to take to market.
Years of research, testing, not to mention world wide licensing, approvals and patents.
Did the programme mention any of that?
Pharmaceuticals spend more than double on marketing vs research. Did you notice that?
E"
Remarkable really that a company would invest millions over God knows how many years, then spend double that sum to recoup their investment as quickly as possible.
In other news, bears defecate in the woods.
E |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the tax payer r&d grant payed to uk pharma is how many billion again?"
. And why do you think that is ? Maybe to encourage scientists to develop more vaccines and cures. Nothing comes without a cost. Seems some simpletons expect these people to work for nothing.
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"the tax payer r&d grant payed to uk pharma is how many billion again?. And why do you think that is ? Maybe to encourage scientists to develop more vaccines and cures. Nothing comes without a cost. Seems some simpletons expect these people to work for nothing. "
Reading the thread I am not sure I can see anyone saying that? Ppl are saying that profit margins should be more appropriate and ethical.
Additionally and sadly human nature shows when money is involved ethics get squeezed by many and big pharma (which have a direct impact on ppls health) have form for bad decisions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.The Arcadia group didn't make a profit. It didn't work out well for them.
Difference between making a profit and have enormous profit margins though!
Plus I wouldn’t say the ethical argument is quite on the same level between a clothing retailer and drug company
I am sure Phillip Green is grateful for your support as he counts his money on his yacht in Monaco, whilst the pensions of former employees dwindle away, nope no money made here...and we are all in this together don’t forget.
Was that aimed at me?
No supporter of Philip Green. He is scum the way he treated staff, destroyed pensions and paid no tax.
The discussion was on whether big pharma should make profits and my point is that sure they should but the margin should be ethical."
. And you are some authority on setting profit margins for pharma companies ?? Supposing they don’t like the restricted profit margins that you would impose and abandon research into drugs that would benefit your family. Presumably that’s ok then as long as you limit their profit margins to some mythical figure that i’m sure you have not a clue about. |
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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
...and that brings us back to thats capitalism.
...to counter the argument, how much should a company in any sector be able to hold a gun to a country or government head by threatening to stop developing potentially life saving drugs because they don't want to be stopped from profiteering ....apart from the obvious that if they stop then the company ceases to exist & profits fall away as patents expire..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And you wonder why some people don’t trust the motives and ethics of big pharma when it comes to these very quickly developed Covid vaccines! I mean it is not as if big pharma have previous now is it?
Disclaimer - I (we) am not an anti vaxxer"
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"the tax payer r&d grant payed to uk pharma is how many billion again?. And why do you think that is ? Maybe to encourage scientists to develop more vaccines and cures. Nothing comes without a cost. Seems some simpletons expect these people to work for nothing. "
Please point out where people have said scientists should work for nothing?
Cheers. |
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"M works in construction, his company specialise in building pharmaceutical research plants.
Their last build project was close to £200 million, that didn't include the land, the cost of running the plant, as well as staff costs for God knows how many years until they had a product to take to market.
Years of research, testing, not to mention world wide licensing, approvals and patents.
Did the programme mention any of that?
Pharmaceuticals spend more than double on marketing vs research. Did you notice that?
E
Remarkable really that a company would invest millions over God knows how many years, then spend double that sum to recoup their investment as quickly as possible.
In other news, bears defecate in the woods.
In other words you haven't got a clue how pharmas works. You should stick to bears crapping in woods, it's more your forte .
How much did astra zeneca put into covid research????
E"
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"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.The Arcadia group didn't make a profit. It didn't work out well for them.
Difference between making a profit and have enormous profit margins though!
Plus I wouldn’t say the ethical argument is quite on the same level between a clothing retailer and drug company
I am sure Phillip Green is grateful for your support as he counts his money on his yacht in Monaco, whilst the pensions of former employees dwindle away, nope no money made here...and we are all in this together don’t forget.
Was that aimed at me?
No supporter of Philip Green. He is scum the way he treated staff, destroyed pensions and paid no tax.
The discussion was on whether big pharma should make profits and my point is that sure they should but the margin should be ethical.. And you are some authority on setting profit margins for pharma companies ?? Supposing they don’t like the restricted profit margins that you would impose and abandon research into drugs that would benefit your family. Presumably that’s ok then as long as you limit their profit margins to some mythical figure that i’m sure you have not a clue about. "
Another truly erroneous comment. The ceo of vertex earned 93m dollars last year , let alone the army of directors below him. Why, because they have a family of drugs that improve amongst others people with cystic fibrosis lives . How much did vertex put into the development, circa 20%. The rest was charities and private investment. This is the case for many drugs that are handed as gifts by governments to drug companies by the way of patent.
In Africa untold people died of aids because the American government wouldn't allow generic non patented drugs costing 3 quid a week to replace patented drugs for 15k a year . This went on for years. It's a disgrace. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.The Arcadia group didn't make a profit. It didn't work out well for them.
Difference between making a profit and have enormous profit margins though!
Plus I wouldn’t say the ethical argument is quite on the same level between a clothing retailer and drug company
I am sure Phillip Green is grateful for your support as he counts his money on his yacht in Monaco, whilst the pensions of former employees dwindle away, nope no money made here...and we are all in this together don’t forget.
Was that aimed at me?
No supporter of Philip Green. He is scum the way he treated staff, destroyed pensions and paid no tax.
The discussion was on whether big pharma should make profits and my point is that sure they should but the margin should be ethical.. And you are some authority on setting profit margins for pharma companies ?? Supposing they don’t like the restricted profit margins that you would impose and abandon research into drugs that would benefit your family. Presumably that’s ok then as long as you limit their profit margins to some mythical figure that i’m sure you have not a clue about. "
Just as I know nothing about what you do for a living or your area of expertise, so too do you have no idea about mine. It really is wrong to assume |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"one wonders just how much the 200 million outlay is dwarfed by the thousands of billions in profit."
You do know A/Z are providing "at cost" and to the previous poster...vaccine is NOT compulsory?? |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"Yes. I knew that, it is all about making profit for them.The Arcadia group didn't make a profit. It didn't work out well for them.
Difference between making a profit and have enormous profit margins though!
Plus I wouldn’t say the ethical argument is quite on the same level between a clothing retailer and drug company
I am sure Phillip Green is grateful for your support as he counts his money on his yacht in Monaco, whilst the pensions of former employees dwindle away, nope no money made here...and we are all in this together don’t forget.
Was that aimed at me?
No supporter of Philip Green. He is scum the way he treated staff, destroyed pensions and paid no tax.
The discussion was on whether big pharma should make profits and my point is that sure they should but the margin should be ethical.. And you are some authority on setting profit margins for pharma companies ?? Supposing they don’t like the restricted profit margins that you would impose and abandon research into drugs that would benefit your family. Presumably that’s ok then as long as you limit their profit margins to some mythical figure that i’m sure you have not a clue about.
Just as I know nothing about what you do for a living or your area of expertise, so too do you have no idea about mine. It really is wrong to assume "
You are absolutely correct, it really is wrong to assume.
From your own reply to me further up; "in other words you haven't got a clue how pharmas works."
You assume incorrectly.
E |
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"the tax payer r&d grant payed to uk pharma is how many billion again?. And why do you think that is ? Maybe to encourage scientists to develop more vaccines and cures. Nothing comes without a cost. Seems some simpletons expect these people to work for nothing. "
so paid twice then continue to moan about not getting paid ... what utterly bizzarre thinking yet unsurprising tory jealousy politics |
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