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The great reopening
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"Struggle on a little while longer to get back to normal or open now and put us all back months....hmmmmm, let me think." Yeah I get you .. but will it be normal again and will there be more lockdowns? Do we all just wait and see like my other reply I think it will come to a point where enough is enough for people in some industries that are being overlooked for support | |||
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"Struggle on a little while longer to get back to normal or open now and put us all back months....hmmmmm, let me think. Yeah I get you .. but will it be normal again and will there be more lockdowns? Do we all just wait and see like my other reply I think it will come to a point where enough is enough for people in some industries that are being overlooked for support " Once everyone, or at least the vast majority of people have been vaccinated there will be no need for further lockdowns...thats the whole point of vaccinating. Its now down to the public to accept the vaccine. | |||
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"Struggle on a little while longer to get back to normal or open now and put us all back months....hmmmmm, let me think. Yeah I get you .. but will it be normal again and will there be more lockdowns? Do we all just wait and see like my other reply I think it will come to a point where enough is enough for people in some industries that are being overlooked for support Once everyone, or at least the vast majority of people have been vaccinated there will be no need for further lockdowns...thats the whole point of vaccinating. Its now down to the public to accept the vaccine." Yeah that is the kind of positivity we certainly need just hope it pans out that way for all these poor souls who feel the need to open up shop beforehand .. can’t imagine what some folk are going through | |||
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"It must be a truly terrible time for the small businesses forced to shut, we are small business owners, luckily not effected by covid but I know the day to day worries etc of having a small business even without being forced to shut. I do often wonder just how the people on Furlough would react and will react one furlough stops and there is no job to go back to. I hope I'm wrong but unemployment be huge. " If everybody was self employed or a business owner and no furlough just a few wee backhanders which btw even Iv not had .. then like you say it would be a different narrative for certain | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. " I only seen it this morning in a local paper online done a few searches and there’s quite a few nationally going with the story .. and cannot agree with you more on both your other points but people in desperate situations and the mental health associated with losing everything the strong might bounce back right enough at least even in Shaun of the dead there was a pub to wait for it all to blow over  | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. " A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? How many of those on furlough will have a job to go back to ? Think there’s going to be mass unemployment watch how the Government will change how they count unemployment, " | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? " I think people in general want to get back to some sort of normal in the country, think it's pretty well accepted that there will be differences to how that was .. Can't see any sort of civil disruption apart from very small scale with protests perhaps as there have been over restrictions etc.. Most people, family, job, mortgages etc will stoically plod on with how things are going to be.. | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? How many of those on furlough will have a job to go back to ? Think there’s going to be mass unemployment watch how the Government will change how they count unemployment, " Like they all do, they will play with the stats etc to paint as positive a picture of how they're doing as possible.. Twas ever thus.. | |||
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"Was meant to say , "I can see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021." Not can't Someone please add an edit post button " Witty has already said we should expect some restrictions to still be in place next winter | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules " I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand  | |||
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"why would any business owner put their livelihood at more risk? i take it you are OP" Not that I agree with this but there's plenty of business owners out there that can't see it getting any worse. My wife's business has been absolutely decimated by this and we're having to personally fund it's existence right now in the hope that clients will come back once reopen. There's no guarantee they will. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand "How can they pay if they have no money? | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand
How can they pay if they have no money? "A quick Google suggests that for individuals, fines will be taken from wages and benefits (in priority over any other debt), and businesses will be forcibly closed and liquidated. | |||
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"I hear you some folk must be at the point of doing absolutely anything to keep afloat with businesses they’ve put their life into. In the fear of sounding big headed I predicted this last year that folk would eventually have enough although it’s came earlier than I thought. I thought if there is another lockdown after mass vaccination then people would revolt but this wee protest will be interesting to see who and how many go through with it " Interesting point you make in your comments, "they’ve put their life into" if we don't all stick to the rules they may not have a life to continue to put in to their business, but fully understand all the frustration. | |||
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"Personally I think it's irresponsible. The fact that the overriding message appears to be conspiracy-driven covid denial with underlying themes of anti-vaccination, means that any message of the very real struggles of some businesses is lost in a morass of pseudo-law, misinformation and just pure nonsense from the mouths of those whose egos appear to exceed their rationality" Yes. I find it fascinating that this is going on on the same platforms as the insurrection supporters fled to. Fascinating, and telling. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand "People aren’t deterred from the fines, because they can’t afford them, so they won’t get payed anyway. | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. " I hope this will be the final lockdown but why are, Witty, Valance and Sage already concerned about next winter. This isn't going to go away for some considerable time yet | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand
People aren’t deterred from the fines, because they can’t afford them, so they won’t get payed anyway. "The idea that the government won't get its money somehow is adorable 
They take fines from benefits ffs  | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand
People aren’t deterred from the fines, because they can’t afford them, so they won’t get payed anyway.
The idea that the government won't get its money somehow is adorable
They take fines from benefits ffs "Stop flirting with me. You don’t stand a chance  | |||
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"why would any business owner put their livelihood at more risk? i take it you are OP" Yeah I suppose everyday is a risk whatever you do but fortunately for myself at this time I can get on with working outdoors I was just asking the question as I had predicted a similar outcome last year I’m sure some of the people that may follow through with it will have done there due diligence on the risks and take it as they see it | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand
People aren’t deterred from the fines, because they can’t afford them, so they won’t get payed anyway.
The idea that the government won't get its money somehow is adorable
They take fines from benefits ffs
Stop flirting with me. You don’t stand a chance "I'm sorry, my emoji was unclear. I wasn't flirting. | |||
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"Personally I think it's irresponsible. The fact that the overriding message appears to be conspiracy-driven covid denial with underlying themes of anti-vaccination, means that any message of the very real struggles of some businesses is lost in a morass of pseudo-law, misinformation and just pure nonsense from the mouths of those whose egos appear to exceed their rationality" Well until we can get les Denis to start surveying 100 people to see if the real motives are indeed conspiracy based or just desperate for cash or any of the other top 10 answers I’ll just keep from assuming for now unless I pick up a newspaper of course and read that it is conspiracy based because they are always right about people | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand
How can they pay if they have no money?
A quick Google suggests that for individuals, fines will be taken from wages and benefits (in priority over any other debt), and businesses will be forcibly closed and liquidated."The legend of the Phoenix all ends with beginnings | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand
How can they pay if they have no money?
A quick Google suggests that for individuals, fines will be taken from wages and benefits (in priority over any other debt), and businesses will be forcibly closed and liquidated.
The legend of the Phoenix all ends with beginnings "According to the wisdom of Swing, one should probably not fuck with fire. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I am sure there will be a few odiots out there who think it's all big to break the rule but that wull be the oness who can afford to throw away 10 grand
How can they pay if they have no money? "You don’t pay then your credit ratings drop to unreliable | |||
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"Was meant to say , "I can see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021." Not can't Someone please add an edit post button Witty has already said we should expect some restrictions to still be in place next winter " That could be wearing masks indoors, increased hand hygiene etc. Restrictions does not need to mean lockdowns. | |||
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"Well? Has this materialised... or is it more crackpot bullshit? I'm guessing the latter since it was backed by well known lizard fancier David Icke "If it has materialised let me know of any hairdressers. starting to look like shadrach here | |||
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"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me" Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy. When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides. Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can "Yeah can you imagine people in ww2 refusing to put black out curtains up? " you cant deny me my rights. If i wanna get blown to fuck, then i jolly well will" | |||
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"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me" Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy. When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides. Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can "Someone ring Childline. | |||
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"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me" Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy. When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides. Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can
Yeah can you imagine people in ww2 refusing to put black out curtains up?
" you cant deny me my rights. If i wanna get blown to fuck, then i jolly well will""I gather that the idea of universal compliance is not as true as we're led to believe. But I'm sure most rule breakers were as popular as a turd in a swimming pool | |||
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"Well? Has this materialised... or is it more crackpot bullshit? I'm guessing the latter since it was backed by well known lizard fancier David Icke
If it has materialised let me know of any hairdressers. starting to look like shadrach here"Don't worry, you're from Fife... looking like a hairy mutant is par for the course. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules " Not read anything about this | |||
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"Well? Has this materialised... or is it more crackpot bullshit? I'm guessing the latter since it was backed by well known lizard fancier David Icke
If it has materialised let me know of any hairdressers. starting to look like shadrach here
Don't worry, you're from Fife... looking like a hairy mutant is par for the course. "Least I could have my porridge this morning with a spoon because mine are no all burnt | |||
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"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me" Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy. When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides. Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can "It does feel very much like toddlers stomping their feet. I've seen a very different side to some people I know.  | |||
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"I kind of feel like we've got to "I'll do what I like and you can't stop me" Like, I'm sure we all went through the stage of screaming in a shop because Mummy and Daddy won't buy you the toy. When I was a kid, I learned that pulling shit like that earned me the proverbial whoop ass and other punishment besides. Today's parents generally can't apply the whoop ass, but the government sure can
It does feel very much like toddlers stomping their feet. I've seen a very different side to some people I know. "Same. | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? " Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this. We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths. We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity. I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection. | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this. We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths. We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity. I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection. " It's not simply averting financial hardship though is it? It's keeping a grip on their actual livelihood, because the jobseeker to vacancies ratio when we are out of this is going to lean severely to the jobseeker side. People are staring down the barrel of losing everything they have built, and ending up being looked down upon when they are benefits claimants. There's also a really big issue for these people, and people who aren't working, are locked away at home with no company, and that is that people are feeling that they have no purpose, a bleak future at best, and are supposed to just have faith that this will end, that it won't be followed by a new series of lockdowns because of a new more vicious strain that these vaccines don't work for. And when people feel like they have no purpose and are hating the future they envision, are rapidly losing everything, they get reckless, and either they turn rebellious, desperate to break out of their spiral, and say fuck it, I'm not letting that happen, fuck the consequences... Or they continue to spiral until they lose all hope and make a decision to exit. | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this. We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths. We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity. I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection. It's not simply averting financial hardship though is it? It's keeping a grip on their actual livelihood, because the jobseeker to vacancies ratio when we are out of this is going to lean severely to the jobseeker side. People are staring down the barrel of losing everything they have built, and ending up being looked down upon when they are benefits claimants. There's also a really big issue for these people, and people who aren't working, are locked away at home with no company, and that is that people are feeling that they have no purpose, a bleak future at best, and are supposed to just have faith that this will end, that it won't be followed by a new series of lockdowns because of a new more vicious strain that these vaccines don't work for. And when people feel like they have no purpose and are hating the future they envision, are rapidly losing everything, they get reckless, and either they turn rebellious, desperate to break out of their spiral, and say fuck it, I'm not letting that happen, fuck the consequences... Or they continue to spiral until they lose all hope and make a decision to exit. " Exactly. Expect to hear this week that efficacy against a certain strain is less or non effective. It will never end. | |||
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"Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive. " Furlough payments don't cut it. Tried getting grants since we was forced to close but had nothing. We have vat and corporation tax due next month plus rent and other outgoings. In around 2 weeks my company will be no more. I haven't taken a half decent wage since first lockdown so I have nothing left. I also have my own tax to pay which I have no longer got due to needing my savings for my own living cost. | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this. We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths. We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity. I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection. It's not simply averting financial hardship though is it? It's keeping a grip on their actual livelihood, because the jobseeker to vacancies ratio when we are out of this is going to lean severely to the jobseeker side. People are staring down the barrel of losing everything they have built, and ending up being looked down upon when they are benefits claimants. There's also a really big issue for these people, and people who aren't working, are locked away at home with no company, and that is that people are feeling that they have no purpose, a bleak future at best, and are supposed to just have faith that this will end, that it won't be followed by a new series of lockdowns because of a new more vicious strain that these vaccines don't work for. And when people feel like they have no purpose and are hating the future they envision, are rapidly losing everything, they get reckless, and either they turn rebellious, desperate to break out of their spiral, and say fuck it, I'm not letting that happen, fuck the consequences... Or they continue to spiral until they lose all hope and make a decision to exit. " And this is why it's been a total fuck up by government since day one. We could have been like Australia... | |||
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"Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive. Furlough payments don't cut it. Tried getting grants since we was forced to close but had nothing. We have vat and corporation tax due next month plus rent and other outgoings. In around 2 weeks my company will be no more. I haven't taken a half decent wage since first lockdown so I have nothing left. I also have my own tax to pay which I have no longer got due to needing my savings for my own living cost. " I really don't get why folk can't understand this thoroughly shit and tragic situation. Yes I realise folk are dying before someone points out the obvious but this destruction of lives, businesses and homes that folk have worked their lives for cannot continue. It's all too easy for folk to point to furlough but that doesn't cut it for many out there. Apart from business owners such as here there is also the better paid who now only get up to £2000 furlough pay. Folk maybe aren't as sympathetic towards folk in this situation but If someone has a lifestyle based on say 4grand a month income, seeing that halved is gonna cause problems. | |||
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"Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive. Furlough payments don't cut it. Tried getting grants since we was forced to close but had nothing. We have vat and corporation tax due next month plus rent and other outgoings. In around 2 weeks my company will be no more. I haven't taken a half decent wage since first lockdown so I have nothing left. I also have my own tax to pay which I have no longer got due to needing my savings for my own living cost. I really don't get why folk can't understand this thoroughly shit and tragic situation. Yes I realise folk are dying before someone points out the obvious but this destruction of lives, businesses and homes that folk have worked their lives for cannot continue. It's all too easy for folk to point to furlough but that doesn't cut it for many out there. Apart from business owners such as here there is also the better paid who now only get up to £2000 furlough pay. Folk maybe aren't as sympathetic towards folk in this situation but If someone has a lifestyle based on say 4grand a month income, seeing that halved is gonna cause problems." The reality is, gonna loose my business, home, not sure what the future holds but it's desperate times for a lot of people. We are only a small business. We don't live an extravagant lifestyle. Making ends meet was hard enough before lockdown kicked in but totally impossible now. | |||
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"Can’t see why a shop desperately needs to reopen, a normal retail shop who furloughs staff and themselves and has the grants can easily survive. Furlough payments don't cut it. Tried getting grants since we was forced to close but had nothing. We have vat and corporation tax due next month plus rent and other outgoings. In around 2 weeks my company will be no more. I haven't taken a half decent wage since first lockdown so I have nothing left. I also have my own tax to pay which I have no longer got due to needing my savings for my own living cost. I really don't get why folk can't understand this thoroughly shit and tragic situation. Yes I realise folk are dying before someone points out the obvious but this destruction of lives, businesses and homes that folk have worked their lives for cannot continue. It's all too easy for folk to point to furlough but that doesn't cut it for many out there. Apart from business owners such as here there is also the better paid who now only get up to £2000 furlough pay. Folk maybe aren't as sympathetic towards folk in this situation but If someone has a lifestyle based on say 4grand a month income, seeing that halved is gonna cause problems. The reality is, gonna loose my business, home, not sure what the future holds but it's desperate times for a lot of people. We are only a small business. We don't live an extravagant lifestyle. Making ends meet was hard enough before lockdown kicked in but totally impossible now. " Absolutely heartbreaking, it really is. Just what sort of society are we saving here. | |||
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"I'd not heard of this and anyone who provides a place where people are gathering is likely to be reversing the downward infection trends that we've started. This should be the final lockdown and doing anything to prolong it is selfish. Health is too undervalued. A lot of people are desperate, I can't see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021. It's easy to call them selfish, how would you feel if your livelihood was on the line? There where 9.9m people on Furlough in December, its most likely higher now. If the safety net of furlough which in some cases is artificially keeping some jobs open stopped next week, do you think people would just accept it or do you think we would see civil disruption? Civil protest, done in a way that doesn't increase risk to health, is appropriate. Financial wellbeing of the economy is only achievable via a healthy nation of citizens, we get the economic strength from that health. The stated plan is to have 1 lockdown in England - I'm unsure if the other nation states have decided this. We're currently seemingly at a point where infection levels are showing suppression, so it's poor judgement to do anything that could reverse this. I'm personally affected financially to a devastating level and come from a family of several generations of business owners that is no longer viable and active, including myself. But, having also lost 1 family member to this disease, I would prefer no further deaths and disabilities to be unnecessarily caused, rather than my family wealth being perpetuated. Loss of wealth can be dealt with but once death happens, there are no further recovery or mitigation options. There are thousands of homeless people who have next to nothing, there are many thousands who face eviction from rented homes and have no income security but have families to feed. We have to be in this together, to stop any avoidable deaths. We're still early in the history of this virus, facing potentially years of it being around us, if we don't pursue an elimination strategy, as some countries have. But, we're not so early on that we don't have a very short-term plan to suppress and reduce infection levels so that the health service can cope and reopen its service scope for the full range of treatment that it usually provides, because we would have reduced infection and a great proportion of the population has immunity. I'm assuming these businesses may increase the risks of infection spreading. This is a morally bankrupt approach, even if it averts personal financial hardship, if they are operating and enabling infection. It's not simply averting financial hardship though is it? It's keeping a grip on their actual livelihood, because the jobseeker to vacancies ratio when we are out of this is going to lean severely to the jobseeker side. People are staring down the barrel of losing everything they have built, and ending up being looked down upon when they are benefits claimants. There's also a really big issue for these people, and people who aren't working, are locked away at home with no company, and that is that people are feeling that they have no purpose, a bleak future at best, and are supposed to just have faith that this will end, that it won't be followed by a new series of lockdowns because of a new more vicious strain that these vaccines don't work for. And when people feel like they have no purpose and are hating the future they envision, are rapidly losing everything, they get reckless, and either they turn rebellious, desperate to break out of their spiral, and say fuck it, I'm not letting that happen, fuck the consequences... Or they continue to spiral until they lose all hope and make a decision to exit. " It's perhaps not the most appropriate forum thread for all of those posts to be covered properly. Most of this is disastrous. We still have to respect the conditions that we're under though, for those seeking to follow the gist of the thread creator, with my points of my response to it. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules " I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part | |||
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"Was meant to say , "I can see lockdowns and tiers going on for most of 2021." Not can't Someone please add an edit post button Witty has already said we should expect some restrictions to still be in place next winter " Yes I expect there will be, social distancing and face coverings are here for a few years I think. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part " I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. " Hear hear sunshine | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. " Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it." But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. " Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. " "....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..." --------------------------- All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another. The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. "....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..." --------------------------- All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another. The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads. " And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. "....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..." --------------------------- All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another. The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads. And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere. " A big difference everyone has a mask on and are not talking much | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. "....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..." --------------------------- All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another. The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads. And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere. A big difference everyone has a mask on and are not talking much" There is very little evidence that masks help prevent the spread of the virus, in fact in the largest study done it was shown that they didn’t. And people walk around the supermarket breathing, that’s all that matters, talking has nothing to do with it... | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. "....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..." --------------------------- All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another. The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads. And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere. " "....And what about the supermarkets?..." ----------------------------- A supermarket is 'essential', a betting shop is not, there is a big difference between one business and another, so you can't lump all businesses in the same box. Also you mentioned a 99.8% survival rate. A survival rate is not the same as a 'recovery rate'. 1 out of every 10 that survive don't make a full recovery. Which means up to 10% still suffer long term health issues even though they escape death. You also say: "We can’t keep everywhere shut forever" Well nobody suggested that we shut everywhere forever. The lockdown is, and has always been temporary measure. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. " Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. "....But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread ..." --------------------------- All businesses which involve people congregating, will definitely contribute to the spread. How much it contributes will vary from one business to another. The more businesses we shut down during the lockdown, the less the virus spreads. And what about the supermarkets? You can’t possibly be suggesting that 50 people, sat socially distanced in a restaurant, is any worse than 300 people running around Asda? Yes we can hide away from this virus, if you choose to, but given it’s got a 99.8% survival rate chance and the majority of elderly/vulnerable people will be vaccinated, I think a lot of people will take their chances with it. We can’t keep everywhere shut forever and this virus (and many others) isn’t going anywhere. "....And what about the supermarkets?..." ----------------------------- A supermarket is 'essential', a betting shop is not, there is a big difference between one business and another, so you can't lump all businesses in the same box. Also you mentioned a 99.8% survival rate. A survival rate is not the same as a 'recovery rate'. 1 out of every 10 that survive don't make a full recovery. Which means up to 10% still suffer long term health issues even though they escape death. You also say: "We can’t keep everywhere shut forever" Well nobody suggested that we shut everywhere forever. The lockdown is, and has always been temporary measure." And when do you think it will be alright to open then? | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things "What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down. With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take. "Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law. So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Think it's to late to fix things majorly. We should have locked down the borders.. properly locked everything down for a few months, then like Austrila we could be enjoying a pretty normal life. Couldnt go to my brother's wedding last weekend but so pleased he is over there and was able to have a pretty much normal wedding. Not a mask in sight. " We certainly fix nothing by opening because we're fed up. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.
So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law "I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Think it's to late to fix things majorly. We should have locked down the borders.. properly locked everything down for a few months, then like Austrila we could be enjoying a pretty normal life. Couldnt go to my brother's wedding last weekend but so pleased he is over there and was able to have a pretty much normal wedding. Not a mask in sight. We certainly fix nothing by opening because we're fed up." "...We certainly fix nothing by opening because we're fed up..." ------------------------- Exactly this
Certain criteria / targets need to be met before we open up. Opening up just because we are 'fed up' is not a sensible option. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.
So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law
I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?"You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult. You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts. When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.
So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law
I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?
You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.
You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.
When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)"I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.
So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law
I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?
You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.
You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.
When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)
I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road. "Yes. You can make choices like adults do. Subject to rules and regulations like so many other things. You don't choose the acceptable level of contaminants in your water, or virus in your community. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.
So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law
I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?
You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.
You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.
When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)
I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road. "The government will consult with scientists and other experts to determine how & when lockdown should be lifted. The decision will be made based on certain criteria and targets that need to be met. The government's decision will not be based on people crying out to be 'treated like adults' | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.
So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law
I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?
You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.
You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.
When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)
I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road.
Yes. You can make choices like adults do. Subject to rules and regulations like so many other things. You don't choose the acceptable level of contaminants in your water, or virus in your community."Hahaha! I’ve literally not got a clue what you are on about. OK we will keep everything shut till they tell us it’s safe to go out. Never mind everything else, the economy, the effect on people lives, Covid is the only thing that matters yeh? And the experts are doing a wonderful job of keeping us all safe. | |||
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" The government will consult with scientists and other experts to determine how & when lockdown should be lifted. The decision will be made based on certain criteria and targets that need to be met. The government's decision will not be based on people crying out to be 'treated like adults'" It's a fallacious argument anyway. If you use tap water, the risk to your health is decided by someone else. Ditto if you buy food or consumer products or live in a dwelling. You can make the same risk calculation as you do, with an adult, with those things. We rely on experts for our safety in everything. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.
So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law
I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?
You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.
You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.
When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)
I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road.
Yes. You can make choices like adults do. Subject to rules and regulations like so many other things. You don't choose the acceptable level of contaminants in your water, or virus in your community.
Hahaha! I’ve literally not got a clue what you are on about. OK we will keep everything shut till they tell us it’s safe to go out. Never mind everything else, the economy, the effect on people lives, Covid is the only thing that matters yeh? And the experts are doing a wonderful job of keeping us all safe."Quite clearly you don't. If you can point to where I've said that, I'd be grateful, because I don't think I have. | |||
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that's worked well so far... make desicions on risk when people struggle to wash their hands and follow 'stay at home'.
Just look through the forum to see if you really think we should "treat people like adults and let them decide". Karen doesn't want to take the vaccine because she did her research on Facebook and thinks it's not tested and or has a microchip in. Dave thinks his 'o level' in maths somehow makes him an advance statistician and goes about quoting death rates as a rationale to go the gym. Kate thinks she is entitled to meet her friend for Costa in a different city. Clowns can't even get the basic concept of how vaccination works... and you want to say... hey you decide just act like adults.
I'm with this random guy on a sex site... who thinks the government aren't doing a good job! | |||
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" The government will consult with scientists and other experts to determine how & when lockdown should be lifted. The decision will be made based on certain criteria and targets that need to be met. The government's decision will not be based on people crying out to be 'treated like adults' It's a fallacious argument anyway. If you use tap water, the risk to your health is decided by someone else. Ditto if you buy food or consumer products or live in a dwelling. You can make the same risk calculation as you do, with an adult, with those things. We rely on experts for our safety in everything." This
Indeed, we rely on experts with other everyday things, so we certainly need to rely on experts on such an important issue as a pandemic. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" The government will consult with scientists and other experts to determine how & when lockdown should be lifted. The decision will be made based on certain criteria and targets that need to be met. The government's decision will not be based on people crying out to be 'treated like adults' It's a fallacious argument anyway. If you use tap water, the risk to your health is decided by someone else. Ditto if you buy food or consumer products or live in a dwelling. You can make the same risk calculation as you do, with an adult, with those things. We rely on experts for our safety in everything. This
Indeed, we rely on experts with other everyday things, so we certainly need to rely on experts on such an important issue as a pandemic. "When I was a kid we couldn't use the tap water for a few months (without hard boiling it for awhile first) due to a contamination scare. I'm sure some people took their chances, but the only person they were endangering was themselves. We just bloody got on with it... | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
Water safety experts. Food safety experts. When you buy food, turn on the tap, buy products, inhabit buildings, you're relying on the standards set by others and upheld by the law.
So for the protection of yourself and others, you're welcome to make choices as adults do - set by others and upheld by the law
I’m really not sure what your point is? We are talking about when businesses should be able to open up. Yes yes when the law says it’s alright but when should that be?
You say you should be able to make a choice like an adult.
You can as you do with tap water and food standards - leave it to the relevant bodies of experts.
When should businesses open? When the relevant bodies of experts regard it as safe for everyone. (Counting not only mortality - I believe the figure is much higher than 0.2% - but also morbidity - which is at least 10x mortality)
I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should treat people like adults and let them make their own minds up. Every single business should be open, back to like it was last February, everything normal. If people CHOOSE to not go out, they don’t have to, that is their choice. We manage the risk ourselves, like adults and like you do when you’re crossing the road.
Yes. You can make choices like adults do. Subject to rules and regulations like so many other things. You don't choose the acceptable level of contaminants in your water, or virus in your community.
Hahaha! I’ve literally not got a clue what you are on about. OK we will keep everything shut till they tell us it’s safe to go out. Never mind everything else, the economy, the effect on people lives, Covid is the only thing that matters yeh? And the experts are doing a wonderful job of keeping us all safe.
Quite clearly you don't.
If you can point to where I've said that, I'd be grateful, because I don't think I have."All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed?" You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again." I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. " Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe. | |||
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"Like adults that's worked well so far... make desicions on risk when people struggle to wash their hands and follow 'stay at home'.
Just look through the forum to see if you really think we should "treat people like adults and let them decide". Karen doesn't want to take the vaccine because she did her research on Facebook and thinks it's not tested and or has a microchip in. Dave thinks his 'o level' in maths somehow makes him an advance statistician and goes about quoting death rates as a rationale to go the gym. Kate thinks she is entitled to meet her friend for Costa in a different city. Clowns can't even get the basic concept of how vaccination works... and you want to say... hey you decide just act like adults.
I'm with this random guy on a sex site... who thinks the government aren't doing a good job! "Good for you. It’s nice to have an opinion isn’t it? | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe." I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it. | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe. I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it. " Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe. I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it. Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks "Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available. | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe. I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it. Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks
Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available."I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site. | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe. I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it. Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks
Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available."till it mutates and starts affecting younger people again. I've got 5 friends currently fighting covid in hospital.... all under 50..... one has been in intensive care now for 10 days..has lost his father and his mother is very sick with it too. (Was a christmas infection party) I've had it.. still suffer the odd day where I'm so fatigued I can't function. | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe. I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it. Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks
Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.
I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site. "Yeh so will I, unfortunately I don’t get to choose but fortunately I’m still allowed an opinion, I think anyway? That’s not breaking the rules yet is it? | |||
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" Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks
Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.
I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site. "What about some woman? Asking for a friend
Also, to the poster before Swing, not dying isn't the benchmark of success. Lots of people of working age are suffering long term, possibly permanent ongoing health issues (long Covid). That's going to have a long term impact on the NHS well after most of us move on. Preventing any infection with SARS-COV-2 is preferable.
Also just because people in their 80s are dying. Many are still dying before their time and they are dying in isolation from their families, hooked up to tubes and machines, only able to see people's eyes through PPE for their last few hours/days. It's not a humane way to die.
Last weekend, I watched my Grandad labouring to breathe, sat in full PPE and unable to touch or comfort him. Only a week prior, he'd been happy and as healthy as he'd been for years. But Covid deniers, who thought the rules are BS and don't apply to them brought it into his home. His very rich and successful life was snuffed out rapidly.
He didn't deserve to die in those circumstances, alone and having not seen most of his family for many, many months.
So, it's important that we deal with this pandemic for EVERYONE. Not just young people who have potentially long lives ahead, but also for the older people who founded the NHS for us, worked hard through their lives and who deserve much better. | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take. "But this is the problem: "I think everyone else..." Not: "The experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology think that..." Unless you are an expert in microbiology and epidemiology? | |||
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"If I've stopped you talking or said you can't, then that's news to me. I'm also allowed an opinion (although I defer to those who know significantly more than me, I wouldn't presume to know enough), which includes responding to the opinion you have." Yes yes you said. We will open when the experts say it’s safe. Certain experts might agree with me that when the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, we can open. Fingers crossed anyway. | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe. I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it. Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks
Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.""...Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4,..." ------------------------------- And you think the effect of this pandemic is based only on the average age of people it kills ??? Such thinking explains why the government will make its decision after consulting with experts, rather than bowing down to people who 'want to be treated like adults' | |||
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"What about some woman? Asking for a friend
"Umm... Swing isn't sexist, honest  | |||
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"What about some woman? Asking for a friend
Umm... Swing isn't sexy, honest "Don't put yourself down, silly  | |||
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"What about some woman? Asking for a friend
Umm... Swing isn't sexy, honest
Don't put yourself down, silly " | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
But this is the problem: "I think everyone else..."
Not: The experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology think that..."
Unless you are an expert in microbiology and epidemiology?
"Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. | |||
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" Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks
Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.
I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site.
What about some woman? Asking for a friend
Also, to the poster before Swing, not dying isn't the benchmark of success. Lots of people of working age are suffering long term, possibly permanent ongoing health issues (long Covid). That's going to have a long term impact on the NHS well after most of us move on. Preventing any infection with SARS-COV-2 is preferable.
Also just because people in their 80s are dying. Many are still dying before their time and they are dying in isolation from their families, hooked up to tubes and machines, only able to see people's eyes through PPE for their last few hours/days. It's not a humane way to die.
Last weekend, I watched my Grandad labouring to breathe, sat in full PPE and unable to touch or comfort him. Only a week prior, he'd been happy and as healthy as he'd been for years. But Covid deniers, who thought the rules are BS and don't apply to them brought it into his home. His very rich and successful life was snuffed out rapidly.
He didn't deserve to die in those circumstances, alone and having not seen most of his family for many, many months.
So, it's important that we deal with this pandemic for EVERYONE. Not just young people who have potentially long lives ahead, but also for the older people who founded the NHS for us, worked hard through their lives and who deserve much better."This ^^^. You say it better than I could Mrs KC. Dylan Thomas wrote "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light." Rage is what I feel about those who would just throw our loved ones out into that night. | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. " This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
But this is the problem: "I think everyone else..."
Not: The experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology think that..."
Unless you are an expert in microbiology and epidemiology?
Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. "There was very public coverage of this being opened to anyone who wanted to put their name down, including names like Cominic Dummings. If nothing else, I have questions about the validity of the data set if it's so clearly compromised. As well as the huge public health backlash to the declaration. It's a fringe view. | |||
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" All I’ve heard you do is talk about water regulations and then some stuff about ‘when the experts tell us it’s safe’. I’m giving my opinion on when I think that is... I know, I know I’m not an expert so I should just keep quiet and let the clever people keep us safe. Is that right? No opinions allowed? You say we should make decisions as adults. Adults, by and large, rely on the government to keep them safe (food and water contamination, product safety, etc). Those things are regulated for our safety. When you turn on the tap you are accepting the risk to your health that the experts deem reasonable. As most adults do. You should have the same level of decision making as in that. Because 99.9% of the population don't know enough to make informed decisions, particularly when individual actions have communal consequences. So. Sure you can decide like an adult does. You can talk all you like, I'm not going to stop you, but if you think your view overrides public health measures then you'll have to think again. I said (for the third time now), once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, they should open up and let people make their own mind up if they want to go and use the services that are available. Crazy suggestion I know. Yes, and I've heard you. I believe it is a crazy suggestion given what we know about the disease. Crazy, irresponsible, short sighted, selfish, and more besides. I'm saying that, per your wording, we should decide like adults do. That is, leave it to those who we already rely on to keep us safe. I think you need to research this virus a little more, you seem to me to have an irrational fear of it. Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks
Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.
"...Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4,..."
-------------------------------
And you think the effect of this pandemic is based only on the average age of people it kills ???
Such thinking explains why the government will make its decision after consulting with experts, rather than bowing down to people who 'want to be treated like adults' "Let’s hope they ask some of the experts that signed the great barrington declaration. | |||
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" Hmm. I've been listening to virologists, epidemiologists, vaccine experts, and immunologists on it since March. I think I'm pretty up to date, thanks
Ok, just so you know the average age of people it kills is 82.4, there is a 99.8% survival rate for the under 70s, 95% for 70+ and that’s without any medical intervention. It’s hardly crazy to suggest that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated we can open up and get back to normal. Yes, treat people like adults and with the odds I’ve mentioned above being pretty good, let them choose for themselves if they want to use any services available.
I'll trust experts with verifiable records and cited figures over what some guy says on a swinging site.
What about some woman? Asking for a friend
Also, to the poster before Swing, not dying isn't the benchmark of success. Lots of people of working age are suffering long term, possibly permanent ongoing health issues (long Covid). That's going to have a long term impact on the NHS well after most of us move on. Preventing any infection with SARS-COV-2 is preferable.
Also just because people in their 80s are dying. Many are still dying before their time and they are dying in isolation from their families, hooked up to tubes and machines, only able to see people's eyes through PPE for their last few hours/days. It's not a humane way to die.
Last weekend, I watched my Grandad labouring to breathe, sat in full PPE and unable to touch or comfort him. Only a week prior, he'd been happy and as healthy as he'd been for years. But Covid deniers, who thought the rules are BS and don't apply to them brought it into his home. His very rich and successful life was snuffed out rapidly.
He didn't deserve to die in those circumstances, alone and having not seen most of his family for many, many months.
So, it's important that we deal with this pandemic for EVERYONE. Not just young people who have potentially long lives ahead, but also for the older people who founded the NHS for us, worked hard through their lives and who deserve much better.
This ^^^. You say it better than I could Mrs KC.
Dylan Thomas wrote "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light." Rage is what I feel about those who would just throw our loved ones out into that night." | |||
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"Any business owner taking part in this? interesting to see how many go through and open up shop today in defiance to the rules I've seen it and hope people won't be taking part I do understand why many would criticise any businesses that chose to take part but personally I wouldn't cast judgement on those who do as a form of protest. It must be incredibly frustrating and soul destroying watching your business, life and livelihood be decimated and be left with an uncertain future after working so hard to build it up and take the risk to go it alone. Because the longer we prolong this by flouting rules the longer we suffer including the businesses. This is also why most things are no longer guidelines but law because people keep pushing it. But there's no evidence that certain businesses actually increase the spread by any great margin, even the spread attributed to pubs could be exaggerated (in October Public Health England only attributed 5% of cases). It's become obvious that the current strategy is to keep everything closed for as long as possible until the warmer weather arrives. This clearly leaves small business owners in a terrible state and with very difficult decisions to make. Which is why I won't personally condone or criticise. Very well said, surely once we get to around mid Feb, with all the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, there is nothing to stop the businesses opening up. People can then decide for themselves if they want to go to these shops or not? Start treating people like adults again. Let them make their own choices on the risks they want to take In their lives. Like the risks you take on manufacturing standards for your car or appliances? Like the standards you apply to your drinking water? Like your personal building code? Acceptable levels of toxins and contaminants in your food? The degree of inaccuracy in medicine? ... Huh. Most adults I know leave that to the experts, or are unaware of it, because the regulation of our health and safety goes on in the background of our lives. So sure. Adults can choose in the same way they do with those other things
What experts are these? The lockdown experts? Yes I’m sure a lockdown expert is very good at telling people when to lock down.
With the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, I think everyone else should be able to live their normal lives again. Open everything up and let people choose what ‘risk’ they want to take.
But this is the problem: "I think everyone else..."
Not: The experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology think that..."
Unless you are an expert in microbiology and epidemiology?
Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that.
There was very public coverage of this being opened to anyone who wanted to put their name down, including names like Cominic Dummings.
If nothing else, I have questions about the validity of the data set if it's so clearly compromised.
As well as the huge public health backlash to the declaration. It's a fringe view."Hahahaha fringe view? Yeh course it is. Don’t tell all this lot, verified medical & public health scientists signatures - there’s another 443 pages of them, check it out. Well worth a read. We will continue to update this page with verified, approved, and vetted signatures as time allows. Show entries Title First Name Last Name Country Field or Department University or Institute Prof. Abdellatif Elmor Egypt Public Health, Zagazig University Dr. Abigail Langton United Kingdom Musculoskeletal & Dermatological Sciences University of Manchester Dr. Adam Feyaerts Belgium Molecular Biology KU Leuven Dr. Adam Curnock United Kingdom Biological research Immunocore Ltd Dr. Adam Price United Kingdom Biology University of Aberdeen Dr. Adam Brufsky United States UPMC Hillman Cancer Center University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine Dr. Adina L. Feldman Sweden Epidemiology Karolinska Institutet Dr. Aditi Apte India Platform for Research related to National Aims KEM Hospital Research Centre Dr. Adolfo Lopez Noriega France Inorganic Chemistry and Drug Delivery MedinCell Dr. Adrian Heald United Kingdom School of Medicine University of Manchester Dr. Adriana Paiva Camargo Saraiva Brazil Physiology, epidemiology, nutrition and microbiology Universidade do Estado do Pará Dr. Aivaras Cepelis Norway Epidemiology Observational & Pragmatic Research Institute Prof. Ajit Singh India Department of Orthopaedic Banaras Hindu University Dr. Akke Vellinga Ireland Epidemiology NUI Galway Dr. Alan McMichael United Kingdom Medicine Queen's University Belfast Dr. Alan Mazurek United States Neurology Mount Sinai School of Medicine Dr. Alan Hutson United States Biostatistics Roswell Park Comprehensive Cancer Center Prof. Alastair Goldman United Kingdom Life Sciences University of Bradford Dr. Alba Carola Finarelli Italy Interinstitutional Epidemiology Unit Local Health Authority of Reggio Emilia (Retired) Prof. Alberto Esteves Gemal Brazil Anestesiologia Universidade Federal Fluminense Prof. Alberto Gabizon Israel Oncology Hebrew University Dr. Alejandro Llanos-Cuentas Peru Facultad de Salud Pública y Administración Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia Dr. Alessandra Cervino France Genetics Luxia Scientific Dr. Alessandro Vasconcelos Brazil Clinical oncology Uninove University Dr. Alessandro Montedori Italy Direzione Salute e Ceosione Sociale Regione Umbria-Regional Health Authority of Umbria Showing 1 to 25 of 443 entriesFirstPrevious123 | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid" Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next." So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? | |||
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"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised." The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’ | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next." Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others. But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947 And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html And The Mirror (shudder): https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210 I could go on. | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly?" Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others. But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947 And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html And The Mirror (shudder): https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210 I could go on." Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’? | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did." It’s a ‘big oil’ conspiracy apparently. Best leave it there luvvie  | |||
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"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised. The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’" Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things. And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view. I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date. I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus. | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others. But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947 And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html And The Mirror (shudder): https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210 I could go on. Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’?" Have you ever heard of grasping at straws? | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did." I have. So I know how to research and am entitled to draw my own conclusions? Ta muchly. | |||
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"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised. The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’ Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things. And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view. I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date. I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus." Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle. You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine. | |||
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"It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted. But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh?" And yet earlier on we grieved the suffering of business owners 
I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry. | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next." What is a reliable source? | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others. But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947 And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html And The Mirror (shudder): https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210 I could go on. Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’? Have you ever heard of grasping at straws?" Have you heard of astroturfing? Oh sorry wrong chat. | |||
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"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised. The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’ Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things. And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view. I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date. I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus. Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle. You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine." Have fun obeying the law | |||
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"It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted. But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh? And yet earlier on we grieved the suffering of business owners
I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry."Ah, no worries. Who cares about an old fella who was pushing 90? Not many people, it seems. Expendable. Disposable. Still, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Something will get us all in the end. I just hope whatever gets me allows me to have my family around me. | |||
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"It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted. But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh? And yet earlier on we grieved the suffering of business owners
I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.
Ah, no worries. Who cares about an old fella who was pushing 90? Not many people, it seems. Expendable. Disposable. Still, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Something will get us all in the end. I just hope whatever gets me allows me to have my family around me."I hope for better. I wish it could have been better for your family. All of this just blows my damn mind. | |||
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" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others. But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947 And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html And The Mirror (shudder): https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210 I could go on. Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’? Have you ever heard of grasping at straws? Have you heard of astroturfing? Oh sorry wrong chat. " Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? | |||
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"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised. The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’ Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things. And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view. I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date. I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus. Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle. You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine. Have fun obeying the law "You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion. | |||
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"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised. The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’ Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things. And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view. I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date. I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus. Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle. You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine. Have fun obeying the law
You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion."Did I say you couldn't have an opinion? What's your opinion on Mrs KC's grandfather suffering as he died, horrifically, alone, because Covid deniers brought Covid into his home? I'd love to know your opinion on that. You can have an opinion. I can respond. Free speech, huh? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's noteworthy that my post Polly and Swing have responded to has been studiously ignored by the person it was primarily aimed at. Presumably it's okay for elderly people to die alone, away from their families and in great distress? You'd be happy to see your Grandad in that situation? Happy to tell many hundreds of friends, many of whom have known the person since childhood (so 70+ years) that they cannot attend the funeral? Pleased that family members who live alone will have to sit alone in the crematorium because of the social distancing rules, unable to be comforted. But it's fine, he was just some old duffer, eh? And yet earlier on we grieved the suffering of business owners
I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.
Ah, no worries. Who cares about an old fella who was pushing 90? Not many people, it seems. Expendable. Disposable. Still, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Something will get us all in the end. I just hope whatever gets me allows me to have my family around me.
I hope for better. I wish it could have been better for your family.
All of this just blows my damn mind."I sleep better having chatted to the aforementioned friends, former colleagues, band mates and other acquaintances. I've been warned to spend the rest of the pandemic period organising a substantial extension to his church, because it wouldn't hold all the people who would like to pay their respects. People have been lovely on the phone, I had a great chat with a 91yo lady who knew my Grandparents in childhood and who shared a lot of memories with me (and educated me on the history of Kendal Mint Cake and the reason people from Yorkshire settled in the Morecambe Bay area). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. Exactly the same info across a multitude of news outlets and scientific sites. Unfortunately, the Fab rules say I can't link here to LSE.ac.uk or Infection Control Today or many others. But here's Sky: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947 And The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html And The Mirror (shudder): https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/herd-immunity-letter-signed-bogus-22821210 I could go on. Have you ever also ever heard of a ‘smear campaign’? Have you ever heard of grasping at straws? Have you heard of astroturfing? Oh sorry wrong chat. Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what?" Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I sleep better having chatted to the aforementioned friends, former colleagues, band mates and other acquaintances. I've been warned to spend the rest of the pandemic period organising a substantial extension to his church, because it wouldn't hold all the people who would like to pay their respects. People have been lovely on the phone, I had a great chat with a 91yo lady who knew my Grandparents in childhood and who shared a lot of memories with me (and educated me on the history of Kendal Mint Cake and the reason people from Yorkshire settled in the Morecambe Bay area)." Much love. I stay home to prevent more suffering like yours. And what a horrendous loss for his community as well. Utterly preventable. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised. The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’ Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things. And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view. I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date. I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus. Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle. You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine. Have fun obeying the law
You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion.
Did I say you couldn't have an opinion?
What's your opinion on Mrs KC's grandfather suffering as he died, horrifically, alone, because Covid deniers brought Covid into his home? I'd love to know your opinion on that.
You can have an opinion. I can respond. Free speech, huh?"There are lots of sad stories to be had on both sides of the argument. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised. The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’ Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things. And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view. I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date. I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus. Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle. You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine. Have fun obeying the law
You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion.
Did I say you couldn't have an opinion?
What's your opinion on Mrs KC's grandfather suffering as he died, horrifically, alone, because Covid deniers brought Covid into his home? I'd love to know your opinion on that.
You can have an opinion. I can respond. Free speech, huh?
There are lots of sad stories to be had on both sides of the argument. "Umm... Wow. Sad stories. Unpreventable torment and death.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I can copy paste too, but I don't find it worthwhile. It's clear that the list has been compromised by joke signatories. The data set is compromised. The signatures I shared are verified , have you ever heard of ‘a smear campaign’ Sure. I've also heard of astroturfing, among other things. And so what? My understanding is that the scientific consensus leans towards suppression, because the long term effects of the virus are unknown and are potentially concerning. That some people at some stage signed a thing that thought otherwise doesn't change my view. I will continue to rely upon the the high quality scientific sources I have to date. I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but that is immaterial to my understanding of the virus. Haha! That’s a good one that, the astroturfing one. I did actually chuckle. You listen to your ‘quality scientific sources’ and I’ll listen to mine. Have fun obeying the law
You too but whatever you do, don’t have an opinion.
Did I say you couldn't have an opinion?
What's your opinion on Mrs KC's grandfather suffering as he died, horrifically, alone, because Covid deniers brought Covid into his home? I'd love to know your opinion on that.
You can have an opinion. I can respond. Free speech, huh?
There are lots of sad stories to be had on both sides of the argument.
Umm... Wow.
Sad stories. Unpreventable torment and death.
"Yep | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated”" I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did." Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have | |||
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" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply." I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. " A very feeble response indeed, but expected. You keep grasping at your straws and hope you don't end up feeling like you're breathing through one at some point (ditto for your elders). | |||
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" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. " Can you answer the question? Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have "Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. Can you answer the question? Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that?" Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?"Google the following, as I don't think I can post it here: Expert reaction to Barrington Declaration, an open letter arguing against lockdown policies and for ‘Focused Protection’ Posted on the 6th of October by The Science Media Centre (Googling time to find, 10 seconds. Doesn't even require research!) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?"Do you mean these people who endorsed it Dr Bana Rama Harold shipman Dr Jonny Fartpants Prof Comminic Dummings | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. Can you answer the question? Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that? Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated. " What if they catch it before they're vaccinated? Like my Grandad. He was taken to hospital on the very day he had his first appointment. Too late. Oh well. Old fella. No need to shed a tear, eh? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?"Have a read https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Do you mean these people who endorsed it
Dr Bana Rama
Harold shipman
Dr Jonny Fartpants
Prof Comminic Dummings
"Check it out for yourself and make your own mind up, plenty of verified signatures on there. You really shouldn't believe everything you read in the paper. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. Can you answer the question? Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that? Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated. " And if they're one of the few percent who aren't protected? Their suffering is worthwhile because high transmission is an acceptable risk to open the economy? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Do you mean these people who endorsed it
Dr Bana Rama
Harold shipman
Dr Jonny Fartpants
Prof Comminic Dummings
Check it out for yourself and make your own mind up, plenty of verified signatures on there. You really shouldn't believe everything you read in the paper.
"What did you read to figure out how to interpret it? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Have a read
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/"Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Have a read
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/
Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win."How old are you? What do you win? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. Can you answer the question? Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that? Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated. And if they're one of the few percent who aren't protected? Their suffering is worthwhile because high transmission is an acceptable risk to open the economy?" Ok so Lockdown forever it is then? Why didn’t you just say that in the first place | |||
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| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Have a read
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/
Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win."Shows how much you know about the world of science media. about us The Science Media Centre has its roots in the influential House of Lords Science and Technology Select Committee third report on Science and Society, which wanted to renew public trust in science. Established in 2002, it was originally based in the Royal Institution of Great Britain, until becoming a separate charity in its own right in April 2011. The Centre is now housed in the Wellcome Collection, and believes that scientists can have a huge impact on the way the media cover scientific issues, by engaging more quickly and more effectively with the stories that are influencing public debate and attitudes to science. The SMC’s philosophy is: “The media will DO science better when scientists DO the media better.” OUR MISSION To provide, for the benefit of the public and policymakers, accurate and evidence-based information about science and engineering through the media, particularly on controversial and headline news stories when most confusion and misinformation occurs. OUR PRIORITIES – Working with journalists and providing them with information about science and its related disciplines; making it easier for them to get access to the best science and scientists when science stories are making the headlines. – Working with scientists, engineers and other experts, and supporting them to engage with the media; creating more opportunities for them to get their voices heard on the big science, health and environment stories of the day. – Supporting press officers when they are working on complex science, health and environment stories. – In addition, the SMC provides expert advice and evidence on issues relating to science in the media. The Centre often submits evidence to select committee inquiries on science communication in emergencies and public understanding of risk, and in 2011-12 gave both written and oral evidence to the Leveson Inquiry into the culture, ethics and practice of the press. OUR INDEPENDENCE The independence of the Science Media Centre is critical to the work we carry out. We do not have any specific agenda other than to promote the reporting of evidence-based science, and are completely independent in both our governance and funding. ANNUAL REPORT The Science Media Centre’s Annual Reports can be found on this page. You can view our profile on the Charity Commission’s website here. GLOBAL NETWORK The UK SMC has played a key role in the creation of other SMCs around the world. Each SMC works mainly with the national news media and scientists in their respective countries, but the communication and cooperation of the SMC network means that our reach is global when UK science hits the world news. The Science Media Centre is an independent charity and company limited by guarantee. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. Can you answer the question? Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that? Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated. And if they're one of the few percent who aren't protected? Their suffering is worthwhile because high transmission is an acceptable risk to open the economy? Ok so Lockdown forever it is then? Why didn’t you just say that in the first place " If I've said that then please point to it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Have a read
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/
Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win."https://www.johnsnowmemo.com/# | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Have a read
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/
Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.
How old are you? What do you win? "My age is visible and I won the Debunk competition. Keep up! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Have a read
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/
Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.
How old are you? What do you win? "A trip to his local ICU might open his eyes. Lots of lovely sights to see there. Sounds like a splendid prize. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it too much for you to reply to my earlier comments, calling out your callous attitude to older people? Or is it a fact that actually, there's nothing to say because you know that attitude stinks like you-know-what? Scroll up cos I can’t be going through it all again with you. It’ll take forever, I did however start out by saying “once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated” I scrolled. You made no reply to the material I posted 35mins ago, nor my subsequent direct questions. You DID reply when I questioned the Barrington declaration (presumably because it fits your agenda?) I repeat - would YOU be happy to watch your Grandparent suffer and die alone from Covid, just because they're old (and presumably expendable?) That's what your earlier focus on the average age of death seems to imply. I said once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated they should open up. That’s what I said, simple. I don’t want people to die, I think every death is tragic. But I also see the negative impacts of lockdowns. And that’s it in a nutshell. Can you answer the question? Are you happy for your parents or grandparents to suffer like that? Haha. Stop being silly, they’ll be vaccinated. And if they're one of the few percent who aren't protected? Their suffering is worthwhile because high transmission is an acceptable risk to open the economy? Ok so Lockdown forever it is then? Why didn’t you just say that in the first place If I've said that then please point to it." When is safe then? Based on your point above? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Have a read
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/
Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.
How old are you? What do you win?
My age is visible and I won the Debunk competition. Keep up! "Is it a competition? Here are some facts, there isn’t a single country in the world that is following the ‘great barrington declarations advice, why is that? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Have you ever heard of the Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of “experts with the appropriate qualifications in microbiology and epidemiology ” have signed that. This one? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid Hahaha the Guardian ??? Come off it, you’ll be posting BBC news articles next. So The Guardian and the BBC can't be trusted but we should listen to some person on a swinging site who says we should "do our research"? What does research entail, exactly? Hows about you have a look at the great barrington declaration, then make your own mind up. Just like I did. Haha, imagine still believing that, it was debunked ages ago, is that the best you have
Haha. Really? Debunked you say? Hmmmm who by? Please don’t post an article from a newspaper. I’d like someone with the same credentials as the people that have signed it to debunk it? Do tell?
Have a read
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/
Are they verified? That website looks terrible. Mine are all verified and there are a lot more. I win.
Shows how much you know about the world of science media.
about us
The Science Media Centre has its roots in the influential House of Lords Science and Technology Select Committee third report on Science and Society, which wanted to renew public trust in science. Established in 2002, it was originally based in the Royal Institution of Great Britain, until becoming a separate charity in its own right in April 2011. The Centre is now housed in the Wellcome Collection, and believes that scientists can have a huge impact on the way the media cover scientific issues, by engaging more quickly and more effectively with the stories that are influencing public debate and attitudes to science.
The SMC’s philosophy is:
“The media will DO science better when scientists DO the media better.”
OUR MISSION
To provide, for the benefit of the public and policymakers, accurate and evidence-based information about science and engineering through the media, particularly on controversial and headline news stories when most confusion and misinformation occurs.
OUR PRIORITIES
– Working with journalists and providing them with information about science and its related disciplines; making it easier for them to get access to the best science and scientists when science stories are making the headlines.
– Working with scientists, engineers and other experts, and supporting them to engage with the media; creating more opportunities for them to get their voices heard on the big science, health and environment stories of the day.
– Supporting press officers when they are working on complex science, health and environment stories.
– In addition, the SMC provides expert advice and evidence on issues relating to science in the media. The Centre often submits evidence to select committee inquiries on science communication in emergencies and public understanding of risk, and in 2011-12 gave both written and oral evidence to the Leveson Inquiry into the culture, ethics and practice of the press.
OUR INDEPENDENCE
The independence of the Science Media Centre is critical to the work we carry out. We do not have any specific agenda other than to promote the reporting of evidence-based science, and are completely independent in both our governance and funding.
ANNUAL REPORT
The Science Media Centre’s Annual Reports can be found on this page. You can view our profile on the Charity Commission’s website here.
GLOBAL NETWORK
The UK SMC has played a key role in the creation of other SMCs around the world. Each SMC works mainly with the national news media and scientists in their respective countries, but the communication and cooperation of the SMC network means that our reach is global when UK science hits the world news.
The Science Media Centre is an independent charity and company limited by guarantee."Hahaha ah right yeh! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
