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UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
|
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Not really that surprising coming from this clown and the way they are run.
But as they are mainly dealing with residential work then it would be a good idea to get vaccinated anyway.
Personally I absolutely hate having to do residential work at the best of times let alone now. |
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"Yes I can see the same requirements being made in all
Manner of daily life and I welcome it 
Except that you can’t force people to having it they will lose in a court."
But as most of his staff are contract then he can do what he likes or you dont get the work. |
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"Idiots, though we are out of the eu now, so bang go our human rights"
I think that hasn't changed yet and isn't likely to, immediately.
It's certainly a risk.
It's one of those tricky issues, how far we let employers intrude into our lives and on what grounds. Letting the market decide only goes so far, of course. |
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"Yes I can see the same requirements being made in all
Manner of daily life and I welcome it
Except that you can’t force people to having it they will lose in a court.
But as most of his staff are contract then he can do what he likes or you dont get the work."
I don't think you put just anything you like in a contract, there will still be employment laws to consider, otherwise "rights to one night per week with your wife" will become a popular one with employers on FAB. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
They are will just write it into the agreement and the plumbers will have to comply or not get work as they are all self employed
I’m a courier and fully expect to get vaccinated as soon as eligible anyway but no doubt we will have the same clause in the contract |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No one's forcing anyone to have a vaccine. They have a choice. There are no human rights violations that I can see and nothing for a court to decide.
Laws are in place to protect things like ageism, ableism etc, not anti vaxxers.
Don't want it, don't get the job. |
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"Yes I can see the same requirements being made in all
Manner of daily life and I welcome it
Except that you can’t force people to having it they will lose in a court."
they would be offering a choice , have the jab and work for them or don't , it's simple really |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes I can see the same requirements being made in all
Manner of daily life and I welcome it
Except that you can’t force people to having it they will lose in a court.they would be offering a choice , have the jab and work for them or don't , it's simple really "
Exactly |
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"Yes I can see the same requirements being made in all
Manner of daily life and I welcome it
Except that you can’t force people to having it they will lose in a court.
But as most of his staff are contract then he can do what he likes or you dont get the work.
I don't think you put just anything you like in a contract, there will still be employment laws to consider, otherwise "rights to one night per week with your wife" will become a popular one with employers on FAB."
His plumbers are contractors.Pay for the van and given work by a help desk.
So if your not vaccinated then he just wont give you any work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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my elderly mum has always used the same plumber but she has been waiting for work done for weeks and we found out today he has been off for a fortnight with covid
d |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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some jobs already specify the need for different vaccines before they will start you in a job, for example hepatitis
the only difference here is people were aware before taking the job in the past but not contracts are being changed after the fact... for that reason it might be seen as constructive dismissal if they try get rid and they might need to wait for natural attrition of non vaxxers then its in all new staff contracts but it would all be down to an employment tribunal (or higher court if appealed)
covid seems to have created conspiracies out of. so many things that already happened in every day life that people just took no interest in before and now a headline tells them their human rights are being eroded |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"some jobs already specify the need for different vaccines before they will start you in a job, for example hepatitis
the only difference here is people were aware before taking the job in the past but not contracts are being changed after the fact... for that reason it might be seen as constructive dismissal if they try get rid and they might need to wait for natural attrition of non vaxxers then its in all new staff contracts but it would all be down to an employment tribunal (or higher court if appealed)
covid seems to have created conspiracies out of. so many things that already happened in every day life that people just took no interest in before and now a headline tells them their human rights are being eroded "
although in the specific plumber example its contractors so the contract just isnt renewed |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"some jobs already specify the need for different vaccines before they will start you in a job, for example hepatitis
the only difference here is people were aware before taking the job in the past but not contracts are being changed after the fact... for that reason it might be seen as constructive dismissal if they try get rid and they might need to wait for natural attrition of non vaxxers then its in all new staff contracts but it would all be down to an employment tribunal (or higher court if appealed)
covid seems to have created conspiracies out of. so many things that already happened in every day life that people just took no interest in before and now a headline tells them their human rights are being eroded "
Yes the Hepititus jabs, as when I was a temporary hospital porter I was given 2 shots. As nobody wants to be on the receiving end of dirty needle.
Common sense really. |
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"
UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
"
I can see why people would say it is unfair .. I don't agree though I think its just common sense. This pandemic has been a game-changer if only people would realise. There will be no ' old normal about anything when this is over.
All it means is that people now have the freedom of choice to decide what they want to do for a living. If you want to be a plumber and work for this firm you take the vaccine.. otherwise, you don't work for them. I think the employer is showing a duty of care to workers and to customers here.
It's going to be the same in lots of other things I think soon .. particularly in jobs where people have to work with the general public and again I can't disagree with that .. public safety is more important I think now than anything else.
People can refuse to be vaccinated but they will have to learn to live with the consequences of that decision where jobs and even things like socialising in pubs etc is concerned .. this is the future .. garlic bread? not so much anymore I'm sad to say! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
I can see why people would say it is unfair .. I don't agree though I think its just common sense. This pandemic has been a game-changer if only people would realise. There will be no ' old normal about anything when this is over.
All it means is that people now have the freedom of choice to decide what they want to do for a living. If you want to be a plumber and work for this firm you take the vaccine.. otherwise, you don't work for them. I think the employer is showing a duty of care to workers and to customers here.
It's going to be the same in lots of other things I think soon .. particularly in jobs where people have to work with the general public and again I can't disagree with that .. public safety is more important I think now than anything else.
People can refuse to be vaccinated but they will have to learn to live with the consequences of that decision where jobs and even things like socialising in pubs etc is concerned .. this is the future .. garlic bread? not so much anymore I'm sad to say! "
I totally agree with this and there will be exemptions for people who cannot have the vaccine.
Can't and won't are not the same thing. |
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"There is currently a TV advert saying get the jab then book your summer holidays , times have changed and so will the laws that govern us "
I think that's wishful thinking on the part of the holiday industry |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
I can see why people would say it is unfair .. I don't agree though I think its just common sense. This pandemic has been a game-changer if only people would realise. There will be no ' old normal about anything when this is over.
All it means is that people now have the freedom of choice to decide what they want to do for a living. If you want to be a plumber and work for this firm you take the vaccine.. otherwise, you don't work for them. I think the employer is showing a duty of care to workers and to customers here.
It's going to be the same in lots of other things I think soon .. particularly in jobs where people have to work with the general public and again I can't disagree with that .. public safety is more important I think now than anything else.
People can refuse to be vaccinated but they will have to learn to live with the consequences of that decision where jobs and even things like socialising in pubs etc is concerned .. this is the future .. garlic bread? not so much anymore I'm sad to say!
I totally agree with this and there will be exemptions for people who cannot have the vaccine.
Can't and won't are not the same thing. "
Yep I have to agree the choice is still there as long as those who medically can't be vaccinated aren't discrimiated against and this just applies to the those who won't then there isn't a problem.
Look for work from an employer who doesn't require you to be vaccinated. Those of us who have worked abroad in certain countries have already had to do this for years now.
KJ |
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"There is currently a TV advert saying get the jab then book your summer holidays , times have changed and so will the laws that govern us "
They are just trying to get money in their bank accounts. They don’t know what the situation will be in other countries or indeed whether they will let UK citizens in this year, vaccine or not. |
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"
UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
"
I can’t see how this is something he can do now, maybe he can look at it in 2022 when most hopefully have had the offer of taking the vaccine. Either way still rocky ground legally for those that choose not to have it for various reasons and lose their jobs. |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt |
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"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt "
 I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job ! |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job ! "
Such as? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job ! "
Those crying human rights don't seem to get that fact do they! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job !
Such as?"
https://occupationalhealthportsmouth.nhs.uk/occupational-vaccinations/
KJ |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job !
Those crying human rights don't seem to get that fact do they!"
Can you quote human rights? Or another epic fail  |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job !
Such as?
https://occupationalhealthportsmouth.nhs.uk/occupational-vaccinations/
KJ"
Notice the phrase "should be" not would have to be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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google the law and you'll see if the job requires you to have it then the law will be on the employers side no one is making them have it they are just saying this job requires it can see most care homes taking this route |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"google the law and you'll see if the job requires you to have it then the law will be on the employers side no one is making them have it they are just saying this job requires it can see most care homes taking this route "
Wouldn't use Google, try acas or actual law ... find it a bit more reliable |
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"google the law and you'll see if the job requires you to have it then the law will be on the employers side no one is making them have it they are just saying this job requires it can see most care homes taking this route
Wouldn't use Google, try acas or actual law ... find it a bit more reliable "
Why are you even looking at laws ?
Just get on with it and learn to embrace the inevitability of it all like everyone is going to have no choice in doing ..
That way the world can move forward again can't it ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"google the law and you'll see if the job requires you to have it then the law will be on the employers side no one is making them have it they are just saying this job requires it can see most care homes taking this route
Wouldn't use Google, try acas or actual law ... find it a bit more reliable "
Or simply read the article referenced by the OP which includes opinion fron an employment law specialist. |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job !
Such as?
https://occupationalhealthportsmouth.nhs.uk/occupational-vaccinations/
KJ"
I had to have yellow fever vax to take my current job as it’s a requirement to enter certain countries. My health insurance also requires me to take anti malarials
|
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"google the law and you'll see if the job requires you to have it then the law will be on the employers side no one is making them have it they are just saying this job requires it can see most care homes taking this route
Wouldn't use Google, try acas or actual law ... find it a bit more reliable
Why are you even looking at laws ?
Just get on with it and learn to embrace the inevitability of it all like everyone is going to have no choice in doing ..
That way the world can move forward again can't it ! "
The law can also change
If Parliament passes a law tomorrow that you have to have a jab before you do certain jobs... Well. Tough shit. |
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Isn't this the despicable operator that's abused just about everyone possible, with staff treaged badly for years? It's such a pity it's in business.
Is it a roundabout way of getting rid of staff, at lower costs?
It's unfair whilst vaccines are not available for all and presumably the business is not going to pay staff any more, for requiring them to have a broader level of assets. |
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all thats needed is for the firms to force a new contract onto its workers.
if you look this up it explains much more cant link to it
Can my employer make me get a Covid-19 vaccine?
like bg refuse to sign new contracts your sacked
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/british-gas-tells-tens-thousands-22373861 |
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"Isn't this the despicable operator that's abused just about everyone possible, with staff treaged badly for years? It's such a pity it's in business.
Is it a roundabout way of getting rid of staff, at lower costs?
It's unfair whilst vaccines are not available for all and presumably the business is not going to pay staff any more, for requiring them to have a broader level of assets. "
Yes. I suppose I'm imagining a world where everyone has had an opportunity to be vaccinated. Could an employer require this? I don't know (in healthcare more likely yes). Could the law change to allow an employer to do this? Yes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Government has already debated this in Parliament due to there being a petition of over 300,000 signatures signed.
In response to people asking would they face any restrictions anywhere for not having the vaccine Parliament responded.
The Government’s reply states categorically:
“There are currently no plans to place restrictions on those who refuse to have any potential Covid-19 vaccine.”
And that was it. Thus why in the article the law expert says the employer is on sticky ground.
|
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"The Government has already debated this in Parliament due to there being a petition of over 300,000 signatures signed.
In response to people asking would they face any restrictions anywhere for not having the vaccine Parliament responded.
The Government’s reply states categorically:
“There are currently no plans to place restrictions on those who refuse to have any potential Covid-19 vaccine.”
And that was it. Thus why in the article the law expert says the employer is on sticky ground.
"
The government placing restrictions and employers requiring things are two different matters.
Also note the wording. "There are currently no plans". They could start planning for restrictions tomorrow. |
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Maybe the real tragedy is that no matter how much money you have- and that generally means no matter how much tax you have paid to support the rest of us/you- you cannot jump the queue.
So how does that fit in with Darwin?
Are we determined to undermine human development? |
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"Maybe the real tragedy is that no matter how much money you have- and that generally means no matter how much tax you have paid to support the rest of us/you- you cannot jump the queue.
So how does that fit in with Darwin?
Are we determined to undermine human development?"
Ummmm Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection has bugger all to do with the ability to pay for vaccines or in fact vaccines at all. It simply explains speciation by describing how organisms with the best adaptations for their specific niche will be "fitter", which in biology means will have more offspring. That means they pass on their genes (and therefore their suitable adaptations) to the next generation. As habitats change over time, the adaptations that are most beneficial will also change (this is all gradual, usually) and so speciation occurs slowly.
Etc.
He wrote a jolly interesting book about it in 1859 - excellent light bedtime reading |
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"Maybe the real tragedy is that no matter how much money you have- and that generally means no matter how much tax you have paid to support the rest of us/you- you cannot jump the queue.
So how does that fit in with Darwin?
Are we determined to undermine human development?"
Money doesn't determine genetic fitness or worth.
The queue is based on need. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Government has already debated this in Parliament due to there being a petition of over 300,000 signatures signed.
In response to people asking would they face any restrictions anywhere for not having the vaccine Parliament responded.
The Government’s reply states categorically:
“There are currently no plans to place restrictions on those who refuse to have any potential Covid-19 vaccine.”
And that was it. Thus why in the article the law expert says the employer is on sticky ground.
The government placing restrictions and employers requiring things are two different matters.
Also note the wording. "There are currently no plans". They could start planning for restrictions tomorrow."
They did expand further to cover this. I can't paste the whole debate! Yes they could change their minds. They're politicians after all! And yes they always leave it open ended in "political speak' but for a response to a question this was as clear a reply as seen in ages.
Vaccine Minister Nadhim Zahawi MP even reiterated all this when the Telegraph printed a story saying the Gov was going to trial 'vaccine passports' and he tweeted to outright deny it. Its just not workable and a potential vote loser.
The Plumber article is your typical BBC nonsense clickbait story that 100's a week are getting bored of and canceling their licences over. But they don't print that! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Government has already debated this in Parliament due to there being a petition of over 300,000 signatures signed.
In response to people asking would they face any restrictions anywhere for not having the vaccine Parliament responded.
The Government’s reply states categorically:
“There are currently no plans to place restrictions on those who refuse to have any potential Covid-19 vaccine.”
And that was it. Thus why in the article the law expert says the employer is on sticky ground.
The government placing restrictions and employers requiring things are two different matters.
Also note the wording. "There are currently no plans". They could start planning for restrictions tomorrow.
They did expand further to cover this. I can't paste the whole debate! Yes they could change their minds. They're politicians after all! And yes they always leave it open ended in "political speak' but for a response to a question this was as clear a reply as seen in ages.
Vaccine Minister Nadhim Zahawi MP even reiterated all this when the Telegraph printed a story saying the Gov was going to trial 'vaccine passports' and he tweeted to outright deny it. Its just not workable and a potential vote loser.
The Plumber article is your typical BBC nonsense clickbait story that 100's a week are getting bored of and canceling their licences over. But they don't print that! "
tv licenses aren’t for reading articles click bait of not and you cant just cancel your license because you dont agree with the bbc ... so unless the articles offend them so much they gave up all tv then i doubt it |
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"I'm speculating. That's all. Precedent for vaccine mandates exists, although the tradition is weaker in the UK. Employment stipulation is different from government mandate."
Quite. My Middle Eastern students are extremely surprised to know we don't have mandatory vaccines here. They have to have up to date vaccines and a certificate to prove it to access education at home and to gain a scholarship to study here. For example. Most of my Chinese students have had their vaccine. One of my former Russian students who's now doing PhD had the Sputnik one while home for Christmas (which suggests there's decent evidence for it because he's a very intelligent guy and medicinal chemistry is his thing). |
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"
tv licenses aren’t for reading articles click bait of not and you cant just cancel your license because you dont agree with the bbc ... so unless the articles offend them so much they gave up all tv then i doubt it "
Actually many people are doing exactly that. We only use streaming services.
4 TVs in the house and not one of them connected to any kind of TV receiver and we watch no live BBC broadcasts online.
No license required.
Haven't paid it for 5 years now and we know many people who do the same. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
tv licenses aren’t for reading articles click bait of not and you cant just cancel your license because you dont agree with the bbc ... so unless the articles offend them so much they gave up all tv then i doubt it
Actually many people are doing exactly that. We only use streaming services.
4 TVs in the house and not one of them connected to any kind of TV receiver and we watch no live BBC broadcasts online.
No license required.
Haven't paid it for 5 years now and we know many people who do the same."
I know lots of people that do this too but many aren't aware that If you watch BBC iplayer you also need a TV licence now because you didn't in the past.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
tv licenses aren’t for reading articles click bait of not and you cant just cancel your license because you dont agree with the bbc ... so unless the articles offend them so much they gave up all tv then i doubt it
Actually many people are doing exactly that. We only use streaming services.
4 TVs in the house and not one of them connected to any kind of TV receiver and we watch no live BBC broadcasts online.
No license required.
Haven't paid it for 5 years now and we know many people who do the same."
i get that (although its no bbc iplayer and no live tv from any channel online) -
but the post suggested the poster thought they needed a license to read bbc news articles and that if they disagreed that was grounds for cancelling their license - both of which are garbage |
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we know many people who do the
I know lots of people that do this too but many aren't aware that If you watch BBC iplayer you also need a TV licence now because you didn't in the past.
"
Ah I just had to google that and see you are correct. It only used to apply to watching things live on iplayer.
Honestly can't remember the last time we even used that app though, so many other online services available to choose from. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
we know many people who do the
I know lots of people that do this too but many aren't aware that If you watch BBC iplayer you also need a TV licence now because you didn't in the past.
Ah I just had to google that and see you are correct. It only used to apply to watching things live on iplayer.
Honestly can't remember the last time we even used that app though, so many other online services available to choose from."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
tv licenses aren’t for reading articles click bait of not and you cant just cancel your license because you dont agree with the bbc ... so unless the articles offend them so much they gave up all tv then i doubt it
Actually many people are doing exactly that. We only use streaming services.
4 TVs in the house and not one of them connected to any kind of TV receiver and we watch no live BBC broadcasts online.
No license required.
Haven't paid it for 5 years now and we know many people who do the same.
i get that (although its no bbc iplayer and no live tv from any channel online) -
but the post suggested the poster thought they needed a license to read bbc news articles and that if they disagreed that was grounds for cancelling their license - both of which are garbage "
Apologies I maybe worded it slightly ambiguously. Only realise when people point it out so thanks for that.
But yes you can look at BBC internet and listen to BBC radio in your car FOC but you do need a licence to watch iPlayer. It used to be only if you watch live but that has been changed to 'catch up' as well. Just so no one gets on the wrong side of the law.
But you can cancel your licence if you wish. You are not allowed a TV etc.. anymore but you can do it.
Hope that clarifies things. I didn't go into detail as was talking about the post not the Beeb! lol |
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"
but the post suggested the poster thought they needed a license to read bbc news articles and that if they disagreed that was grounds for cancelling their license - both of which are garbage "
True no Licence needed for reading their articles.
As to whether it's grounds to cancel thier Licence its upto the individual. They simply have to unplug their reciever, stop watching live broadcasts online and inform the TV Licencing agency they no longer require a licence |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
"
As long as the workers are made aware that should there be any side effects the pharmaceutical company are not liable. They should have a free choice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
and then you got staff who are refusing to work with those that dont want the vaccine ... going to be alot of problems within the social care side of things.... let alone family requesting those that have had the vaccine only |
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"No one's forcing anyone to have a vaccine. They have a choice. There are no human rights violations that I can see and nothing for a court to decide.
Laws are in place to protect things like ageism, ableism etc, not anti vaxxers.
Don't want it, don't get the job."
Tottally agree |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"Yes I can see the same requirements being made in all
Manner of daily life and I welcome it
Except that you can’t force people to having it they will lose in a court.
But as most of his staff are contract then he can do what he likes or you dont get the work.
I don't think you put just anything you like in a contract, there will still be employment laws to consider, otherwise "rights to one night per week with your wife" will become a popular one with employers on FAB.
His plumbers are contractors.Pay for the van and given work by a help desk.
So if your not vaccinated then he just wont give you any work."
According to the article his plumbers aren't all contractors.
Plus there's his PAYE office staff.
E |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"some jobs already specify the need for different vaccines before they will start you in a job, for example hepatitis
the only difference here is people were aware before taking the job in the past but not contracts are being changed after the fact... for that reason it might be seen as constructive dismissal if they try get rid and they might need to wait for natural attrition of non vaxxers then its in all new staff contracts but it would all be down to an employment tribunal (or higher court if appealed)
covid seems to have created conspiracies out of. so many things that already happened in every day life that people just took no interest in before and now a headline tells them their human rights are being eroded
although in the specific plumber example its contractors so the contract just isnt renewed "
The article clearly states it's not just his sub contractors, it's his fully employed plumbers, plus the rest of his staff.
E |
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"
UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
"
I think many places will go like this. I can see foreign travel only being allowed if you have had it. |
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By *amissCouple
over a year ago
chelmsford |
"Charlie is now on Jeremy Vine..channel 5  "
So we all know the vaccination won t stop you catching and transmitting the virus, so no guarantees of the plumber in your home, being covid free. Charlie is a shrewd business man, I think he is thinking of his staff keeping well, so they are not off work sick. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Don't a few jobs require you to have vaccations, not covid of course, already. The army perhaps?"
Yeah there is links / detail are on this thread.
Vaccinations are needed to work in certain NHS roles. They are also needed to work in certain countries. This is not a new thing.
KJ |
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"
UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
"
I read the article to my gf. Her comment... "what a brilliant boss, wouldn't it be great if all bosses showed as much care for their staff?" and so on. Then of course the lawyers will be making out its a bad thing. More power to him, his employees and his customers. |
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Madness really when you consider having the jab changes nothing as all the questions about wether you can still get it..transmit it etc are unanswered...it's still at this stage an experimental vaccine due to it been rushed out without all stages of the trials completed...in essence taking it now you are actually a part of the trial.... |
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Interesting watching the debate on vine. Not my usual watch but just seen the NHS worker (or claiming to be NHS anyway). You'd have thought that somebody who works in health care would be better informed about the science.. And if not better informed... At least not come out with completely factually incorrect garbage on national daytime TV. People are entitled to be against it but be against it for the right reasons not because you've fb_itis. |
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It would be more helpful in the prevention of the spread of disease if employers changed contracts to ensure employees all recieved adequate sickpay.
Then when people were actually sick (and infectious) they could stay away from work rather than feeling compelled to go in as they are penalised with zero sick pay or disciplinary action if they stay off.
I have friends who work for contractors and they get no sick pay if they're off.
Adequate sickpay should be a right, not a luxury. |
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By *amissCouple
over a year ago
chelmsford |
"Interesting watching the debate on vine. Not my usual watch but just seen the NHS worker (or claiming to be NHS anyway). You'd have thought that somebody who works in health care would be better informed about the science.. And if not better informed... At least not come out with completely factually incorrect garbage on national daytime TV. People are entitled to be against it but be against it for the right reasons not because you've fb_itis. "
|
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"It would be more helpful in the prevention of the spread of disease if employers changed contracts to ensure employees all recieved adequate sickpay.
Then when people were actually sick (and infectious) they could stay away from work rather than feeling compelled to go in as they are penalised with zero sick pay or disciplinary action if they stay off.
I have friends who work for contractors and they get no sick pay if they're off.
Adequate sickpay should be a right, not a luxury."
A few people where I work haven't downloaded the covid app in case it tells them to self isolate, we don't get sick pay, only statutory. It's no wonder things spread!  |
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By *amissCouple
over a year ago
chelmsford |
"It would be more helpful in the prevention of the spread of disease if employers changed contracts to ensure employees all recieved adequate sickpay.
Then when people were actually sick (and infectious) they could stay away from work rather than feeling compelled to go in as they are penalised with zero sick pay or disciplinary action if they stay off.
I have friends who work for contractors and they get no sick pay if they're off.
Adequate sickpay should be a right, not a luxury.
A few people where I work haven't downloaded the covid app in case it tells them to self isolate, we don't get sick pay, only statutory. It's no wonder things spread! "
Yes, very irresponsible and no respect for their colleagues.. |
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"It would be more helpful in the prevention of the spread of disease if employers changed contracts to ensure employees all recieved adequate sickpay.
Then when people were actually sick (and infectious) they could stay away from work rather than feeling compelled to go in as they are penalised with zero sick pay or disciplinary action if they stay off.
I have friends who work for contractors and they get no sick pay if they're off.
Adequate sickpay should be a right, not a luxury."
If people have to choose between feeding their kids and self isolating, they'll feed their kids. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"
tv licenses aren’t for reading articles click bait of not and you cant just cancel your license because you dont agree with the bbc ... so unless the articles offend them so much they gave up all tv then i doubt it
Actually many people are doing exactly that. We only use streaming services.
4 TVs in the house and not one of them connected to any kind of TV receiver and we watch no live BBC broadcasts online.
No license required.
Haven't paid it for 5 years now and we know many people who do the same."
Do you don’t watch any bbc produced programs then ? Not even one ? |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"
UK Plumbing firm to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against covid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654229
KJ
As long as the workers are made aware that should there be any side effects the pharmaceutical company are not liable. They should have a free choice. "
Yup a free choice NOT to work for that company
Though throwing away 80k a year job is a bit silly just for not having a jab  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
tv licenses aren’t for reading articles click bait of not and you cant just cancel your license because you dont agree with the bbc ... so unless the articles offend them so much they gave up all tv then i doubt it
Actually many people are doing exactly that. We only use streaming services.
4 TVs in the house and not one of them connected to any kind of TV receiver and we watch no live BBC broadcasts online.
No license required.
Haven't paid it for 5 years now and we know many people who do the same.
Do you don’t watch any bbc produced programs then ? Not even one ? "
you can watch bbc stuff once it gets to netflix , just not on the tv or iplayer |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Ability for this to be (currently) legally enforceable aside - I think this sets a dangerous precedent.
Ppl saying “ah but if you visit country X you have to have vaccine Y” (eg yellow fever) are missing the point that these are, in most cases, decades old proven vaccines with substantial research data on short and long term side effects.
Ppl do/should retain an absolute right over what happens to their own body.
The three approved Covid vaccines currently have no evidence that it stops infection or transmission. They do appear to reduce severity of illness in those that contract Covid.
The studies for each do appear to be thorough and were quicker than normal due to various factors including level of funding, concurrent studies and access to a volume of participants (with a potential higher prevalence of the virus).
And yet, naturally, there has not been a fourth stage trial and, again naturally, we have no way of knowing about potential long term side effects.
In addition some ingredients in the vaccine may mean some ppl or groups may not want or be able to receive the vaccine either on medical or moral grounds.
Before anyone shouts I am not an anti-vaxxer and am up-to-date with my jabs AND have travelled widely including multiple African countries. However, I am cautious about this (although will be pretty much at back of priority list anyway).
FWIW I am also cautious about the motives of big pharma and that the Govt has removed all liability from them indemnifying them against future lawsuits. That does not build trust.
Because of THAT, and not any weird jingoistic rubbish, I would be far happier having the Oxford AZ vaccine because they are doing it at cost (ie they will not make any profit at all) removing possible conflict of interest and profit driven motivation.
Back on topic - I do not think employers (except healthcare for obvious high risk transmission risk reasons) should be able to mandate having the vaccine as this should be an individual choice - least of all a plumber! |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"Madness really when you consider having the jab changes nothing as all the questions about wether you can still get it..transmit it etc are unanswered...it's still at this stage an experimental vaccine due to it been rushed out without all stages of the trials completed...in essence taking it now you are actually a part of the trial...."
Any idea why the vaccines been rushed?
I think you need to look at the reasons why and how, then look at the trial process, approvals and licensing before make daft comments.
E |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job ! "
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less. "
Tbh I think he just knows how to promote his company...I'd never heard of pimlico plumbers until a few months back.. |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Tbh I think he just knows how to promote his company...I'd never heard of pimlico plumbers until a few months back.."
Possibly but if you saw the interview was anything he said disagreeable? |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less. "
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree...... |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
"There is currently a TV advert saying get the jab then book your summer holidays , times have changed and so will the laws that govern us "
Nothing unusual this, some destinations insisted on proof of vaccination and inoculations prior to covid.
Invariably an employer cannot force you to have a vaccination, but they can record the fact and employ you as normal, if you get ill then they are protected. |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt "
Been asked, Err yes, along with tens of thousands of others, not unusual if you join the armed forces. In the early 80's I had to keep the card records with my passport, 3 of them if I remember correctly, but can't remember what they were. |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
"Won't stand up in law as you can't legally ask what's in your medical file without reason...
Have any of you ever been asked if you had mmr tb smallpox etc vaccine?
Probably be a test case sooner or later, IMHO it's a bit of a pr stunt I worked for the NHS and certain vaccinations are mandatory if you want the job !
Those crying human rights don't seem to get that fact do they!
Can you quote human rights? Or another epic fail "
Once had a idiot of a policeman say I was infringing someone's human rights, I suggested he read what and who the rights apply to. One complaint to the constabulary and official apology the policeman was put on warning for conduct for 9 months and had to undertake remedial training.
Don't confuse employment law with human rights. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes I can see the same requirements being made in all
Manner of daily life and I welcome it
Except that you can’t force people to having it they will lose in a court.
But as most of his staff are contract then he can do what he likes or you dont get the work.
I don't think you put just anything you like in a contract, there will still be employment laws to consider, otherwise "rights to one night per week with your wife" will become a popular one with employers on FAB."
Hmm. I'll not settle for anything less than them having her for 5! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I've had a number of jobs that require vaccinations, in fact can't think of a job I've had that didn't... and proof.
Not sure why everyone thinks this is something different. |
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Its different because the firms management need to be thrown out. I am now 59 years old and I have seen the excesses of union action back in the 70s but I find it difficult to believe the shite that employees are required to accept from clueless managers now.
This is not the way to go about protecting people from covid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well easy way is a covid vaccine passport, that way people can choose, I will employ the vaccinated one, Human rights intact, the infected can work for each other. Of course, some countries will be banning non vaccinated people so most will just have the vaccine anyway.
The Government could well make the vaccine compulsory, in France (in the EU) many vaccinations are compulsory now. |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......"
Sorry are you suggesting his employees would rather be ill and not working but get paid sick pay than not ill and working? Have I understood what you've said correctly? |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
Sorry are you suggesting his employees would rather be ill and not working but get paid sick pay than not ill and working? Have I understood what you've said correctly? "
Not looking from the employees perspective, purely from the employer perspective and am being a cynical old bitch. I'm suggesting that an employer might like some level of certainty that his or her employees will not be or are less likely to be stuck down by disease. As I said in the earlier post, barking up wrong tree perfectly possible. But we had an employer round here who lost a tribunal because they dismissed a man for attending his diabetes clinic appointment. Employers do not always do the right thing for the employee. |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
Sorry are you suggesting his employees would rather be ill and not working but get paid sick pay than not ill and working? Have I understood what you've said correctly?
Not looking from the employees perspective, purely from the employer perspective and am being a cynical old bitch. I'm suggesting that an employer might like some level of certainty that his or her employees will not be or are less likely to be stuck down by disease. As I said in the earlier post, barking up wrong tree perfectly possible. But we had an employer round here who lost a tribunal because they dismissed a man for attending his diabetes clinic appointment. Employers do not always do the right thing for the employee. "
I'm just surprised that you'd think an employee would prefer to get ill but get sick pay than stay healthy and be able to work. Not saying some employers are nt unscrupulous but its a very unusual thought that things I'd rather be ill than healthy. |
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By *r TriomanMan
over a year ago
Chippenham Malmesbury area |
I can see that compulsory vaccinations being required for jobs were this is a high risk of COVID infection such as aircrew or where infection could affect national security such as the Police or the Armed Forces.
I'm not sure about plumbers though; it would give customers confidence that they were safe also, if a customer has elected not to be vaccinated, it would protect the tradesman and the company. |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
Sorry are you suggesting his employees would rather be ill and not working but get paid sick pay than not ill and working? Have I understood what you've said correctly?
Not looking from the employees perspective, purely from the employer perspective and am being a cynical old bitch. I'm suggesting that an employer might like some level of certainty that his or her employees will not be or are less likely to be stuck down by disease. As I said in the earlier post, barking up wrong tree perfectly possible. But we had an employer round here who lost a tribunal because they dismissed a man for attending his diabetes clinic appointment. Employers do not always do the right thing for the employee.
I'm just surprised that you'd think an employee would prefer to get ill but get sick pay than stay healthy and be able to work. Not saying some employers are nt unscrupulous but its a very unusual thought that things I'd rather be ill than healthy. "
Again, what I wrote had nothing to do with the employee perspective. Only the POV of an employer seeking blanket vaccination of a workforce. |
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"Hes a clever man just playing the odds.
If I can put that all staff are Covid safe I need to do it before another company does."
But they're not covid safe. The vaccine helps prevent symptoms. They can still catch covid and spread it x |
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"Hes a clever man just playing the odds.
If I can put that all staff are Covid safe I need to do it before another company does.
But they're not covid safe. The vaccine helps prevent symptoms. They can still catch covid and spread it x"
There is no proof either way yet so he's hedging his bets. |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......"
So yeah, this is what it basically comes down to I think. Doesn't want his staff off sick. Otherwise he's got no reason for demands like this |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"It appears that most of his staff are contractors.
If they don't work, they don't get paid and, as contractors, there's no guarantee of work.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.
"
Everyone seems to have forgotten his office based staff.
If his admin/Support staff are all off sick his business could grind to a halt.
He's trying to protect all of his staff and his customers.
Seems straightforward and sensible.
Then again, I'm not a barrack room lawyer. 
E |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
So yeah, this is what it basically comes down to I think. Doesn't want his staff off sick. Otherwise he's got no reason for demands like this "
Who'd have thought it. An employer who doesn't want his staff off sick? What's the world coming to. Much rather an employer who encourages is staff to get sick eh. |
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I might be reading the OP thoughts wrong but
If you want to visit other countries then you need vaccinations, you know that before you choose to go
If you want to work for the NHS then you have vaccinations, again you know that before you decide to join
Pimlico wants to force contract changes on his existing employees , be they PAYE or sub contract
Unless their contracts have clauses such as this , it won’t stand
Also just wondering regarding the NHS
While it would obviously make sense for them to have it , are they forced by contractual obligation to have the covid jab ? |
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Some paramedics and nurses have said they won't be taking the vaccine and it's being left up to persons choice the only way it can change is if the government make it law. And its the same with care homes |
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"I might be reading the OP thoughts wrong but
If you want to visit other countries then you need vaccinations, you know that before you choose to go
If you want to work for the NHS then you have vaccinations, again you know that before you decide to join
Pimlico wants to force contract changes on his existing employees , be they PAYE or sub contract
Unless their contracts have clauses such as this , it won’t stand
Also just wondering regarding the NHS
While it would obviously make sense for them to have it , are they forced by contractual obligation to have the covid jab ? "
I'm sure the NHS being the largest employer in the world has many employment contracts and rightly not all the same. The one exhibited on TV yesterday had a clause which said ir was the employees responsibility to keep up to date with all necessary vaccinations... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Tbh I think he just knows how to promote his company...I'd never heard of pimlico plumbers until a few months back..
Possibly but if you saw the interview was anything he said disagreeable? "
I wouldn't say disagreeable. But he comes across as a bloke who knows how to milk publicly and this whole thing was likely to get that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......"
Maybe as he would not furlough his staff during the initial lockdown...his view then was if you cant work you need to look for another job. As said all his plumbing staff ar contractors. |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
Maybe as he would not furlough his staff during the initial lockdown...his view then was if you cant work you need to look for another job. As said all his plumbing staff ar contractors. "
That, to me, does not speak of a responsible employer. Some people required furlough due to things like childcare (children schooling at home) or other care responsibilities. Plumbers are just as likely to have children studying at home or elderly family needing care. Furlough wasn't just about the job being "shelved" during the pandemic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
Maybe as he would not furlough his staff during the initial lockdown...his view then was if you cant work you need to look for another job. As said all his plumbing staff ar contractors.
That, to me, does not speak of a responsible employer. Some people required furlough due to things like childcare (children schooling at home) or other care responsibilities. Plumbers are just as likely to have children studying at home or elderly family needing care. Furlough wasn't just about the job being "shelved" during the pandemic."
Me neither more of a wide boy than a cheeky happy to me |
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Charlie Mullins can certainly re-write contracts and include a vaccine clause but he’s unlikely to have a work force to send out on jobs as unless they are medically vulnerable plumbers per se as plumbers don’t feature on the UK's Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation groups by vulnerability list.
Obviously, once the medically vulnerable groups have been vaccinated the vaccine may become available on private prescription and everyone can jostle to get immunised to go on holiday or make money for Mullins.
No idea of what might be in the ‘contract’ but it’s important to remember that many ‘mandatory vaccines (like Hepatitis B, polio, measles, mumps and rubella etc. for health care workers) have been available for years and there is very good evidence in relation to their safety, efficacy, side effects and importantly how long immunity will last.
These mandatory vaccines are generally required to protect the healthcare worker from these infections in an infected patient and, importantly,from transmitting an infection to a patient.
With SARS-CoV-2 we do not, yet know if the vaccines prevent transmission of the virus if a vaccinated person is subsequently infected with SARS-CoV-2 (or variety of e.g. Brazilian sub-type).
We’re also a little thin on the ground as to how long immunity will last as we’re relying on the data from clinical trials of the vaccine with relatively small numbers (tens of thousands over a few months) rather than usage in the real world in many hundreds of thousands over many years.
We now have a number of Covid-19 vaccines (3 in this country) and the government has already decided to deviate from the original vaccine licence (Pfizer BioNTech) from vaccine on day 1 with a booster on day 21 to vaccine on day 1 with a booster on day 90 or even more distant.
If you look at hepatitis B vaccine the consensus is that the initial dose and boosters should be the same i.e. from the same manufacturer unless you are dealing with an individual whose repeated vaccination has not initiated an immune response (as measured by serology) and you then switch to a different manufactured hepatitis B vaccine to see if this will provoke an immune reaction.
Mandatory vaccines in health care workers are followed by testing to confirm immunity (as above); other than in the vaccine clinical trials we are not doing that so there will be no confirmation that an individual has developed immunity to Covid-19.
Finally, vaccination is the last of the series of control measures when looking at COSHH.
Charlie Mullins has, in my opinion, set himself up to discover that he’s no longer making money from his self-employed plumbers as they will have, largely, buggered off to but themselves vans without his name on.
He’s also, likely, to find himself spending a fair amount of money and time fighting actions at employment tribunals under the Equality act.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
Maybe as he would not furlough his staff during the initial lockdown...his view then was if you cant work you need to look for another job. As said all his plumbing staff ar contractors.
That, to me, does not speak of a responsible employer. Some people required furlough due to things like childcare (children schooling at home) or other care responsibilities. Plumbers are just as likely to have children studying at home or elderly family needing care. Furlough wasn't just about the job being "shelved" during the pandemic."
is that true? i thought you could only be furloughed from a business need perspective not a personal need (i might be totally wrong)
we have a number of members of staff who just worked less while the ones without childcare did more (it wasnt really an issue last year as we had bugger all else to anyway, its maybe given us a bit of fatigue with it after this length of time though) or have now just taken some sick leave as the work and childcare has now become too much for them to find a balance at all
i dont think furlough was ever offered or an option for us and it seems odd since the work have really missed a trick where they could have only paid a fraction of the cost for this loss of productivity... im just surprised because its not like i work for the worlds most ethical company , we are run for shareholders benefit like any other plc |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
Maybe as he would not furlough his staff during the initial lockdown...his view then was if you cant work you need to look for another job. As said all his plumbing staff ar contractors.
That, to me, does not speak of a responsible employer. Some people required furlough due to things like childcare (children schooling at home) or other care responsibilities. Plumbers are just as likely to have children studying at home or elderly family needing care. Furlough wasn't just about the job being "shelved" during the pandemic.
is that true? i thought you could only be furloughed from a business need perspective not a personal need (i might be totally wrong)
we have a number of members of staff who just worked less while the ones without childcare did more (it wasnt really an issue last year as we had bugger all else to anyway, its maybe given us a bit of fatigue with it after this length of time though) or have now just taken some sick leave as the work and childcare has now become too much for them to find a balance at all
i dont think furlough was ever offered or an option for us and it seems odd since the work have really missed a trick where they could have only paid a fraction of the cost for this loss of productivity... im just surprised because its not like i work for the worlds most ethical company , we are run for shareholders benefit like any other plc "
Yes, you can ask to be furloughed for childcare reasons, but like with any furlough, the employer must agree: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55679582 |
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By *yn drwgMan
over a year ago
Camarthen |
"Idiots, though we are out of the eu now, so bang go our human rights
Not at all because you can either choose to have the vaccine work somewhere else."
You have a choice take the gig or not. The right of the company who pays the wages is there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well he will find it difficult to employ staff at the moment then. They are not just handing out vaccines in the streets and so far there isn't enough for half the total work force. |
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"He looks a cheeky chappy
He speaks like someone who doesn't speak bullshit and who cares for his employees and customers. No more no less.
Haven't seen the interview, so commenting blind, BUT could it be he also is a man who doesn't want to pay sickness leave and would like his workforce to be present in work? The bottom line? I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree......
So yeah, this is what it basically comes down to I think. Doesn't want his staff off sick. Otherwise he's got no reason for demands like this
Who'd have thought it. An employer who doesn't want his staff off sick? What's the world coming to. Much rather an employer who encourages is staff to get sick eh. "
Or one who doesn't mind his customers getting the virus |
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By *nertsmateMan
over a year ago
Between Trumpton and Camberwick Green |
So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ability for this to be (currently) legally enforceable aside - I think this sets a dangerous precedent.
Ppl saying “ah but if you visit country X you have to have vaccine Y” (eg yellow fever) are missing the point that these are, in most cases, decades old proven vaccines with substantial research data on short and long term side effects.
Ppl do/should retain an absolute right over what happens to their own body.
The three approved Covid vaccines currently have no evidence that it stops infection or transmission. They do appear to reduce severity of illness in those that contract Covid.
The studies for each do appear to be thorough and were quicker than normal due to various factors including level of funding, concurrent studies and access to a volume of participants (with a potential higher prevalence of the virus).
And yet, naturally, there has not been a fourth stage trial and, again naturally, we have no way of knowing about potential long term side effects.
In addition some ingredients in the vaccine may mean some ppl or groups may not want or be able to receive the vaccine either on medical or moral grounds.
Before anyone shouts I am not an anti-vaxxer and am up-to-date with my jabs AND have travelled widely including multiple African countries. However, I am cautious about this (although will be pretty much at back of priority list anyway).
FWIW I am also cautious about the motives of big pharma and that the Govt has removed all liability from them indemnifying them against future lawsuits. That does not build trust.
Because of THAT, and not any weird jingoistic rubbish, I would be far happier having the Oxford AZ vaccine because they are doing it at cost (ie they will not make any profit at all) removing possible conflict of interest and profit driven motivation.
Back on topic - I do not think employers (except healthcare for obvious high risk transmission risk reasons) should be able to mandate having the vaccine as this should be an individual choice - least of all a plumber!"
Very well said!!! |
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"So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story."
I'm pretty sure employers can request medical certificates under some circumstances: my doctor offers it as a private service. |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story."
Great idea. Lie. Get the job. Get found out. Get sacked.
It's perfectly workable and enforceable.
How people can't work this out is beyond me.
E |
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"So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story.
Great idea. Lie. Get the job. Get found out. Get sacked.
It's perfectly workable and enforceable.
How people can't work this out is beyond me.
E"
I think people are trying to adapt civil disobedience to public health.
It doesn't work like that |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story.
I'm pretty sure employers can request medical certificates under some circumstances: my doctor offers it as a private service."
For one of M's jobs he had to grant full access to his medical records, it's not unusual.
E |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story.
Great idea. Lie. Get the job. Get found out. Get sacked.
It's perfectly workable and enforceable.
How people can't work this out is beyond me.
E
I think people are trying to adapt civil disobedience to public health.
It doesn't work like that "
Sovereign citizen nitwit. 
E |
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"So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story.
Great idea. Lie. Get the job. Get found out. Get sacked.
It's perfectly workable and enforceable.
How people can't work this out is beyond me.
E
I think people are trying to adapt civil disobedience to public health.
It doesn't work like that
Sovereign citizen nitwit.
E"
That's a whole other level of fuckery |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story.
Great idea. Lie. Get the job. Get found out. Get sacked.
It's perfectly workable and enforceable.
How people can't work this out is beyond me.
E
I think people are trying to adapt civil disobedience to public health.
It doesn't work like that
Sovereign citizen nitwit.
E
That's a whole other level of fuckery "
I always see them as people who don't understand a single word about how and why laws are made and enforced, trying to make up their own laws and enforcing them, purely for their own benefit. What could possibly go wrong?
E |
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"So just lie and say that you've had it. Employers have no rights to your medical records so how can they prove otherwise.
Again it's another example of an unworkable unenforceable scare story.
Great idea. Lie. Get the job. Get found out. Get sacked.
It's perfectly workable and enforceable.
How people can't work this out is beyond me.
E
I think people are trying to adapt civil disobedience to public health.
It doesn't work like that
Sovereign citizen nitwit.
E
That's a whole other level of fuckery
I always see them as people who don't understand a single word about how and why laws are made and enforced, trying to make up their own laws and enforcing them, purely for their own benefit. What could possibly go wrong?
E"
"This police officer in front of me is a fraud because of that chain mail my neighbour sent me with a virus attached" |
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