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work and the vaccine
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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so your at work you get asked if you want the vaccine you say no and that's your rights then the owner turns around and say's no vaccine no job as it puts others at risk .... nothing really clear on the net some suggest it ok to do so and some dont ...your thoughts ?? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No that’s not ok, it’s still down to personal choice - plus some people can’t have it  "
thats how i thought it to be but thats not what is happening as care home owners are talking to legal teams to roll this out ...
i did find this online and it seems they can https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/coronavirus-can-uk-employers-require-staff-vaccinated |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'd have to ask them their reasoning behind this.
Having the vaccine only protects you from getting it - it doesn't actually stop you spreading it to others.
As with all these things, you'd question why they would want you to do this? Is it to protect their liability against people claiming they'd caught it at work? That's very difficult to prove.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But I can’t have it (I carry an epi pen) so even if I did want it I can’t. How can they discriminate against me in those circumstances? "
If you have a medical reason why you can't have it, they couldn't force you to have it. |
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"But I can’t have it (I carry an epi pen) so even if I did want it I can’t. How can they discriminate against me in those circumstances?
If you have a medical reason why you can't have it, they couldn't force you to have it. "
They can not force anyone to have it with or without a medical condition. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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they cant force anyone but can they say your not for the job anymore ?? no one can be forced we all know that but ask a bunch of care home workers if they are being lent on to have the jab or lose there job im hearing this more and more everyday |
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As the vaccines are not mandatory then I think it will require the employer to perform a Risk assessment taking in to account the responsibilities and requirements of the job and the individuals that the person would come into contact with; clients, co-workers and the public (including those that would be classed as vulnerable or immunosupressed and at risk of serious illness and/or death).
Risk Assessment (for those both currently in post- and pre-employment) will identify whether the worker has regular contact that may risk transmission of the virus if not vaccinated and immune.
Ensuring health and safety in the work environment is of paramount importance and it is underpinned by extensive legislation:
The Health & Safety at Work Act 1974
Control of Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations 2002
Reporting Injuries Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations and Management of Health Safety Welfare Regulations 1999
The adoption of safe working practices together with immunization may significantly improve the protection of the individual worker from specified vaccine-preventable disease whose risk of infection is increased in the work setting.
The worker's duty of care may also mean that they should be immunized where possible and appropriate to ensure that they cannot transmit infection to their work / public contacts.
If the Risk Assessment suggests that a non-vaccinated individual is at high risk of transmitting infection to a co-worker, client or member of the public coming in to the work place, or that their own health would be at risk if they were so affected (immune suppressed, BAME etc. , then it may be necessary to consider redeployment to another position / working from home etc.
Note that the above refers to non-mandatory vaccinations; if the vaccine is made mandatory then there is a requirement for involvement of Union, workers groups (as employment T&Cs are likely to be altered) as well s other legislation.
That's just a quick blast in response to your question, if you require anything more detailed send me a PM.
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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago
up above the streets and houses |
"they cant force anyone but can they say your not for the job anymore ?? no one can be forced we all know that but ask a bunch of care home workers if they are being lent on to have the jab or lose there job im hearing this more and more everyday "
I think this could end in an expensive court battle |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But I can’t have it (I carry an epi pen) so even if I did want it I can’t. How can they discriminate against me in those circumstances?
If you have a medical reason why you can't have it, they couldn't force you to have it.
They can not force anyone to have it with or without a medical condition."
Of course not but they could potentially dismiss you. The decision would have to be reasonable though. |
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"so your at work you get asked if you want the vaccine you say no and that's your rights then the owner turns around and say's no vaccine no job as it puts others at risk .... nothing really clear on the net some suggest it ok to do so and some dont ...your thoughts ??"
As unpopular opinion as it may be ..sod peoples 'rights'.. we are pretty much heading towards a plague situation that appears to be now ( according to London news today ) 'out of control' .. I really feel now that it needs to be law that everyone gets vaccinated like it or not! ( the only exception being allergies/ health reasons etc)
How can someone expect to be able to work alongside someone who hasn't been vaccinated? seems very unfair to me anyone should be thinking anything other than .. let's get this thing done so we can all move forward as a society and back to normality.
Or .. lets get those who refuse to accept that they cant realistically be allowed to continue in a society with people who have been vaccinated .. they can bugger off and go and live off grid somewhere ..
As you can see Im tired of the ' rights' type with bleeding hearts .. we are in this together so should be fighting it together .. just my opinion of course ! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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so we have owners seeking legal advice
we have workers who have or will have the jab already refusing to work with those that dont
and we have families of residents ringing saying that they dont want anyone who has not had the vaccine near there family
phew going to be a testing time i think |
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I had a job where I had to agree to have Hep B vaccinations as well as antibody tests to check for immunity from previous vaccines and boosters for those if needed. Nobody can force you to have a vaccine but companies don't have to employ you if you don't follow their protocol. |
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"But I can’t have it (I carry an epi pen) so even if I did want it I can’t. How can they discriminate against me in those circumstances? "
You can't have the Pfizer vaccine but you can have the Oxford one if you have allergies unless the allergy is to the vaccine ingredients. |
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"I've not really paid much attention to the vaccine but am I right in thinking that it doesn't stop you catching or passing it on just reduces the effect ect? "
Not strictly true - it’s not been out long enough to know that or study the transmission side of things
But having people with less virus because of the antibodies and T cells will, when the studies come in, almost certainly show it reduces transmission too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've had this option previously with other vaccines. I'd say they are within their rights. And who is going to want to not get it and go to work and be avoided by everyone.
Anyway everyone will get it... the percentage of anti is actually tiny and when everyone else gets it and the first few refusers die (and it's all over the press like it inevitably will be) they will pop off and get one. Either that or when their holiday in benidorm is at risk (other cheap holiday destinations will be available). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"so your at work you get asked if you want the vaccine you say no and that's your rights then the owner turns around and say's no vaccine no job as it puts others at risk .... nothing really clear on the net some suggest it ok to do so and some dont ...your thoughts ??
As unpopular opinion as it may be ..sod peoples 'rights'.. we are pretty much heading towards a plague situation that appears to be now ( according to London news today ) 'out of control' .. I really feel now that it needs to be law that everyone gets vaccinated like it or not! ( the only exception being allergies/ health reasons etc)
How can someone expect to be able to work alongside someone who hasn't been vaccinated? seems very unfair to me anyone should be thinking anything other than .. let's get this thing done so we can all move forward as a society and back to normality.
Or .. lets get those who refuse to accept that they cant realistically be allowed to continue in a society with people who have been vaccinated .. they can bugger off and go and live off grid somewhere ..
As you can see Im tired of the ' rights' type with bleeding hearts .. we are in this together so should be fighting it together .. just my opinion of course ! "
And that’s your “right” to have that opinion but in your own words “sod your rights” I’m tired of this whole it’s my way or the high way opinion people have so how about we leave it down to natural selection and survival of the fittest? That way there’s no petty arguments nature decides just like during the plague |
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Could it possibly depend on the job?
I’d like to say it’s down to personal choice... but I know certain jobs require a vaccination history as part of employment- all vaccines are choice so how do they get away with this legally?
Wasn’t helpful sorry, thinking out loud! |
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Everyone will eventually be coerced into having the vaccine....without it (and an accompanying certification to prove you’ve had it) it will get to the point where you won’t be allowed onto a plane or into clubs etc etc etc... so what choice do you have ? Workwise the H&S statzi will make it impossible for you to work anywhere either.. plus the nhs and government spin machine will ramp it up in the press to brainwash us all into believing it’s our civic duty to get it and those who resist will be treated like lepers. |
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Just take the vaccine if its offered to you, & you don’t have a medical condition. People get far too bent out of shape over this. For the vaccine to work we need most people to take it. If not 1300 people will continue to die each day, life will continue to be shit and this effort will be totally wasted. |
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"Could it possibly depend on the job?
I’d like to say it’s down to personal choice... but I know certain jobs require a vaccination history as part of employment- all vaccines are choice so how do they get away with this legally?
Wasn’t helpful sorry, thinking out loud! "
It's personal choice whether you complete a qualification or not and nobody can force you to but a company can decide they don't want to employ you without it. Similarly a drving license, willingness to travel, physical fitness criteria, etc. Same with a vaccination. You can't decide not to employ people due to protected characteristics such as having children or being disabled unless it would prevent them from being able to do the job so I would figure being medically unsuitable for the vaccine would apply but just not wanting to have it isn't a protected characteristic. |
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By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago
Near Wells |
"Everyone will eventually be coerced into having the vaccine....without it (and an accompanying certification to prove you’ve had it) it will get to the point where you won’t be allowed onto a plane or into clubs etc etc etc... so what choice do you have ? Workwise the H&S statzi will make it impossible for you to work anywhere either.. plus the nhs and government spin machine will ramp it up in the press to brainwash us all into believing it’s our civic duty to get it and those who resist will be treated like lepers. "
Very true. Even life insurance companies probably won't insure you if you don't have the vaccines. |
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"Could it possibly depend on the job?
I’d like to say it’s down to personal choice... but I know certain jobs require a vaccination history as part of employment- all vaccines are choice so how do they get away with this legally?
Wasn’t helpful sorry, thinking out loud!
It's personal choice whether you complete a qualification or not and nobody can force you to but a company can decide they don't want to employ you without it. Similarly a drving license, willingness to travel, physical fitness criteria, etc. Same with a vaccination. You can't decide not to employ people due to protected characteristics such as having children or being disabled unless it would prevent them from being able to do the job so I would figure being medically unsuitable for the vaccine would apply but just not wanting to have it isn't a protected characteristic. "
Of course for medically unsuitable. But what about just choosing not too?
All nhs and medical staff paramedics and the such have to show their vaccination record before starting in their roles... would they be required to catch up on any missed vaccines if they chose not too have them previously?
Like I said just thinking out loud because I know that theirs get checked xx |
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"Could it possibly depend on the job?
I’d like to say it’s down to personal choice... but I know certain jobs require a vaccination history as part of employment- all vaccines are choice so how do they get away with this legally?
Wasn’t helpful sorry, thinking out loud!
It's personal choice whether you complete a qualification or not and nobody can force you to but a company can decide they don't want to employ you without it. Similarly a drving license, willingness to travel, physical fitness criteria, etc. Same with a vaccination. You can't decide not to employ people due to protected characteristics such as having children or being disabled unless it would prevent them from being able to do the job so I would figure being medically unsuitable for the vaccine would apply but just not wanting to have it isn't a protected characteristic.
Of course for medically unsuitable. But what about just choosing not too?
All nhs and medical staff paramedics and the such have to show their vaccination record before starting in their roles... would they be required to catch up on any missed vaccines if they chose not too have them previously?
Like I said just thinking out loud because I know that theirs get checked xx"
I've had a job where agreeing to a vaccination was in my contract. If I didn't want the vaccine I didn't have to accept the job. |
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"so your at work you get asked if you want the vaccine you say no and that's your rights then the owner turns around and say's no vaccine no job as it puts others at risk .... nothing really clear on the net some suggest it ok to do so and some dont ...your thoughts ??
As unpopular opinion as it may be ..sod peoples 'rights'.. we are pretty much heading towards a plague situation that appears to be now ( according to London news today ) 'out of control' .. I really feel now that it needs to be law that everyone gets vaccinated like it or not! ( the only exception being allergies/ health reasons etc)
How can someone expect to be able to work alongside someone who hasn't been vaccinated? seems very unfair to me anyone should be thinking anything other than .. let's get this thing done so we can all move forward as a society and back to normality.
Or .. lets get those who refuse to accept that they cant realistically be allowed to continue in a society with people who have been vaccinated .. they can bugger off and go and live off grid somewhere ..
As you can see Im tired of the ' rights' type with bleeding hearts .. we are in this together so should be fighting it together .. just my opinion of course ! "
do you have proof we are heading into a plaque situation, and the word of sadiq khan, does not constitute any form of proof, people are entitled to have a vaccine if they so wish, they are also entitled not to have it. If the so called plaque were happening, the likes of doris and hancock and all the others pushing the fear would have jumped to the front of the queue, did you see the pictures of sadiq pretending to have his flu jab ? what if the vaccine doesn't work just like the swine flu jab Pandemrix didn't work. this person has genuine concerns, and quite rightly so
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"Could it possibly depend on the job?
I’d like to say it’s down to personal choice... but I know certain jobs require a vaccination history as part of employment- all vaccines are choice so how do they get away with this legally?
Wasn’t helpful sorry, thinking out loud! "
It all comes down to the Risk Assessment.
A good example would be a individual (say a combat medical technician in the Territorial Army) who does not develop immunity after multiple doses (maybe from different manufacturers ) of Hepatitis B vaccine.
No immunity is likely to place them in a non-deplorable category (P7 ND Geo) and, therefore, the TA hierarchy will look st them in terms of being able to provide reliable and effective service.
One might continue to try to induce immunity with repeated vaccination but that has already been attempted.
Reliable & effective service has been surpassed and the individual is non-effective in the military sense.
So, service is no longer required.
Hopefully the individual has a mainstream job but if it is in healthcare, the lack of development of Hepatitis B immunity is likely to be an issue there, as well. |
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And that’s your “right” to have that opinion but in your own words “sod your rights” I’m tired of this whole it’s my way or the high way opinion people have so how about we leave it down to natural selection and survival of the fittest? That way there’s no petty arguments nature decides just like during the plague "
Which plague? The one of the mid 1300s or the 1600s?! Both eras famed for modern medical care and a thorough understanding of the causes of disease.
As for survival of the fittest - have you eschewed all forms of medical intervention? I'd expect to see not a solitary paracetamol or anti histamine in your home. Certainly no sticking plasters (the bleeding will stop. Probably). While you're at it, ditch the soap and hot water too - nothing natural about heating water with a combi boiler and copper piping, nor in having a bar of Imperial Leather by the sink. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And that’s your “right” to have that opinion but in your own words “sod your rights” I’m tired of this whole it’s my way or the high way opinion people have so how about we leave it down to natural selection and survival of the fittest? That way there’s no petty arguments nature decides just like during the plague
Which plague? The one of the mid 1300s or the 1600s?! Both eras famed for modern medical care and a thorough understanding of the causes of disease.
As for survival of the fittest - have you eschewed all forms of medical intervention? I'd expect to see not a solitary paracetamol or anti histamine in your home. Certainly no sticking plasters (the bleeding will stop. Probably). While you're at it, ditch the soap and hot water too - nothing natural about heating water with a combi boiler and copper piping, nor in having a bar of Imperial Leather by the sink."
Same plague so I’ll pick any year between those dates makes no difference but seeing as it was the person I replied to that brought the plague up ask them. Yep modern medical care sealing people in houses and mass graves wonder where China got the idea from.
Well seeing as my last doctors appointment was 2006 I think I’m doing pretty well and feel free to raid the cupboards you won’t find a plaster seeing as yes it does stop itself if it doesn’t a plaster certainly ain’t helping, and no pills either sleep helps any headaches and I can tolerate a little sneezing from hay fever
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"I've not really paid much attention to the vaccine but am I right in thinking that it doesn't stop you catching or passing it on just reduces the effect ect? "
pretty much my understanding too.
Not much point having it unless you are in the at risk group. |
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"
And that’s your “right” to have that opinion but in your own words “sod your rights” I’m tired of this whole it’s my way or the high way opinion people have so how about we leave it down to natural selection and survival of the fittest? That way there’s no petty arguments nature decides just like during the plague
Which plague? The one of the mid 1300s or the 1600s?! Both eras famed for modern medical care and a thorough understanding of the causes of disease.
As for survival of the fittest - have you eschewed all forms of medical intervention? I'd expect to see not a solitary paracetamol or anti histamine in your home. Certainly no sticking plasters (the bleeding will stop. Probably). While you're at it, ditch the soap and hot water too - nothing natural about heating water with a combi boiler and copper piping, nor in having a bar of Imperial Leather by the sink.
Same plague so I’ll pick any year between those dates makes no difference but seeing as it was the person I replied to that brought the plague up ask them. Yep modern medical care sealing people in houses and mass graves wonder where China got the idea from.
Well seeing as my last doctors appointment was 2006 I think I’m doing pretty well and feel free to raid the cupboards you won’t find a plaster seeing as yes it does stop itself if it doesn’t a plaster certainly ain’t helping, and no pills either sleep helps any headaches and I can tolerate a little sneezing from hay fever
"
Excellent, you won't be darkening the door of an NHS establishment for any reason, one presumes then? Disappointing you clearly did need modern healthcare in 2006 but I'm sure that doesn't count. Or something like that.
And yes, in the UK, we've treated Covid patients by nailing them inside their houses. That's why you don't see the bodies in the street  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Fair enough if you have a medical reason to restrict you having the vaccine.
All the other tin hat brigade who refuse it, stuff your human rights, I would be more interested on the human rights of those sensible people who have taken the vaccine in order to protect themselves and others. God knows where we would be in this world if masses of people previously refused to have vaccine immunisation against things like polio, chicken pox, small pox and the common flu amongst others. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And that’s your “right” to have that opinion but in your own words “sod your rights” I’m tired of this whole it’s my way or the high way opinion people have so how about we leave it down to natural selection and survival of the fittest? That way there’s no petty arguments nature decides just like during the plague
Which plague? The one of the mid 1300s or the 1600s?! Both eras famed for modern medical care and a thorough understanding of the causes of disease.
As for survival of the fittest - have you eschewed all forms of medical intervention? I'd expect to see not a solitary paracetamol or anti histamine in your home. Certainly no sticking plasters (the bleeding will stop. Probably). While you're at it, ditch the soap and hot water too - nothing natural about heating water with a combi boiler and copper piping, nor in having a bar of Imperial Leather by the sink.
Same plague so I’ll pick any year between those dates makes no difference but seeing as it was the person I replied to that brought the plague up ask them. Yep modern medical care sealing people in houses and mass graves wonder where China got the idea from.
Well seeing as my last doctors appointment was 2006 I think I’m doing pretty well and feel free to raid the cupboards you won’t find a plaster seeing as yes it does stop itself if it doesn’t a plaster certainly ain’t helping, and no pills either sleep helps any headaches and I can tolerate a little sneezing from hay fever
Excellent, you won't be darkening the door of an NHS establishment for any reason, one presumes then? Disappointing you clearly did need modern healthcare in 2006 but I'm sure that doesn't count. Or something like that.
And yes, in the UK, we've treated Covid patients by nailing them inside their houses. That's why you don't see the bodies in the street "
For as long as I can help it I won’t be, nothing against the NHS but just don’t feel like running to them for every little ailment.
Oh no totally counts all his years of medical expertise put to good use signing a form and charging me for the privilege  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And that’s your “right” to have that opinion but in your own words “sod your rights” I’m tired of this whole it’s my way or the high way opinion people have so how about we leave it down to natural selection and survival of the fittest? That way there’s no petty arguments nature decides just like during the plague
Which plague? The one of the mid 1300s or the 1600s?! Both eras famed for modern medical care and a thorough understanding of the causes of disease.
As for survival of the fittest - have you eschewed all forms of medical intervention? I'd expect to see not a solitary paracetamol or anti histamine in your home. Certainly no sticking plasters (the bleeding will stop. Probably). While you're at it, ditch the soap and hot water too - nothing natural about heating water with a combi boiler and copper piping, nor in having a bar of Imperial Leather by the sink.
Same plague so I’ll pick any year between those dates makes no difference but seeing as it was the person I replied to that brought the plague up ask them. Yep modern medical care sealing people in houses and mass graves wonder where China got the idea from.
Well seeing as my last doctors appointment was 2006 I think I’m doing pretty well and feel free to raid the cupboards you won’t find a plaster seeing as yes it does stop itself if it doesn’t a plaster certainly ain’t helping, and no pills either sleep helps any headaches and I can tolerate a little sneezing from hay fever
Excellent, you won't be darkening the door of an NHS establishment for any reason, one presumes then? Disappointing you clearly did need modern healthcare in 2006 but I'm sure that doesn't count. Or something like that.
And yes, in the UK, we've treated Covid patients by nailing them inside their houses. That's why you don't see the bodies in the street
For as long as I can help it I won’t be, nothing against the NHS but just don’t feel like running to them for every little ailment.
Oh no totally counts all his years of medical expertise put to good use signing a form and charging me for the privilege "
Not worth replying to this. Some fucking idiots are beyond help. |
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"I've not really paid much attention to the vaccine but am I right in thinking that it doesn't stop you catching or passing it on just reduces the effect ect?
pretty much my understanding too.
Not much point having it unless you are in the at risk group. "
No, it's not that it won't stop you catching or passing it on, it's that there is not enough data to make a judgement on that either way yet.
From what I understand, the early data is looking promising, and as most other vaccines also reduce the spread of the virus, it is highly likely that it will help.
So, they are just being cautious saying 'it may not help' because they don't want people to get the jab, and then think they are safe to go about without a mask, when we just don't know yet. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"I'd have to ask them their reasoning behind this.
Having the vaccine only protects you from getting it - it doesn't actually stop you spreading it to others.
As with all these things, you'd question why they would want you to do this? Is it to protect their liability against people claiming they'd caught it at work? That's very difficult to prove.
"
im pretty sure the vaccine dosent protect you from getting it just stops you to likley end up in icu.but hey what do i know im just a bloke on the internet anyone with any knowledge no the answer?? |
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"I've not really paid much attention to the vaccine but am I right in thinking that it doesn't stop you catching or passing it on just reduces the effect ect?
pretty much my understanding too.
Not much point having it unless you are in the at risk group.
No, it's not that it won't stop you catching or passing it on, it's that there is not enough data to make a judgement on that either way yet.
From what I understand, the early data is looking promising, and as most other vaccines also reduce the spread of the virus, it is highly likely that it will help.
So, they are just being cautious saying 'it may not help' because they don't want people to get the jab, and then think they are safe to go about without a mask, when we just don't know yet. "
I understand all that. But unless you are in the at risk group its pretty pointless right now. An acedemic point though because I am months away from getting it. By which point it might have burned out and its just a precautionary measure. |
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Ah that's just the same as a creationist versus evolutionist approach
Fyi .. currently following your plan we would have approx 300,000 people dead at this point !
Personally I'm more of a scientist than a Jehova witness in my approach to this ..
No one likes spoonfuls of codliver oil or plates if greens as kids .. but we need to do something we don't like in order to stay healthy ..
People can't live in maccy d and nandos forever .. despite the fact they would want to !
That's why I believe if everyone doesn't get on board with this the animosity on both sides will rise .. outside ( when we get there again) on the street ..
Which will create division and discrimination in places when they re open .. those who are not vaccinated surely can't be expecting to get the same treatment as everyone else ?
Think about risk assessment for people's lively hoods ..pubs ? Resurant ? Cinema ? Things like travel and life assurance .and if course NHS bills too ..( no it's not the same as a drug addict or drinker !) .
I may be wrong but given countries are now going to keep records of who has or has not had the vaccine for the future ?
Perhaps just getting on with it is the best and I would say right thing to do ..
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Pro Vacer but also pro choice 