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Preventing mutations e.g. S Africa
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The only way to stop a virus from mutating is to eliminate it 100%. All organisms that contain an RNA or DNA genome accumulate mutations every time that genetic material is replicated, including in we humans. The mutations accumulate over time and can eventually cause problems. There's a reason most types of cancer are more prevalent in older people - the more times the genetic material replicates, the more mutations there are and the chances of dysfunction increase.
You cannot stop a virus from mutating. |
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"You alter the vaccine as mutations are discovered. So Covid vaccines will become a yearly event, just like flu vaccines."
Quite right. Both the mRNA approach from BioNTech and the viral vector approach from Oxford can be easily edited to include a new sequence for the spike protein (these are both very different to the way flu vaccines are designed). The bottleneck will be the production of an edited vaccine. For flu vaccines, production occurs approx 6 months prior to it being used and stocks are built up. Both Pfizer and AZ started manufacturing the vaccine ahead of approval (a gamble), so we've started "ahead" of ourselves. Normally at the point of approval, there's no material been manufactured just in case approval is denied. |
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"You alter the vaccine as mutations are discovered. So Covid vaccines will become a yearly event, just like flu vaccines.
Quite right. Both the mRNA approach from BioNTech and the viral vector approach from Oxford can be easily edited to include a new sequence for the spike protein (these are both very different to the way flu vaccines are designed). The bottleneck will be the production of an edited vaccine. For flu vaccines, production occurs approx 6 months prior to it being used and stocks are built up. Both Pfizer and AZ started manufacturing the vaccine ahead of approval (a gamble), so we've started "ahead" of ourselves. Normally at the point of approval, there's no material been manufactured just in case approval is denied."
How did covid affect the "gamble" this year ? Is there less flu variants this year ? |
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"You alter the vaccine as mutations are discovered. So Covid vaccines will become a yearly event, just like flu vaccines.
Quite right. Both the mRNA approach from BioNTech and the viral vector approach from Oxford can be easily edited to include a new sequence for the spike protein (these are both very different to the way flu vaccines are designed). The bottleneck will be the production of an edited vaccine. For flu vaccines, production occurs approx 6 months prior to it being used and stocks are built up. Both Pfizer and AZ started manufacturing the vaccine ahead of approval (a gamble), so we've started "ahead" of ourselves. Normally at the point of approval, there's no material been manufactured just in case approval is denied.
How did covid affect the "gamble" this year ? Is there less flu variants this year ?"
I have no idea. The strains of flu to include in the annual vaccine is decided about 6 months ahead of time, based on what circulates in the Southern hemisphere winter. We won't know enough about what flu strains have been circulating or how many affected until our winter is over.
Recommendations of the European Medicines Authority in April 2020 for the winter 2020/21 vaccine:
Manufacturers of egg-based or live attenuated trivalent vaccines for the 2020/2021 season should include these three virus strains:
an A/Guangdong-Maonan/SWL1536/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
an A/Hong Kong/2671/2019 (H3N2)-like virus; and
a B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus.
Manufacturers of cell-based trivalent vaccines for the 2020/2021 season should include these three virus strains:
an A/Hawaii/70/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
an A/Hong Kong/45/2019 (H3N2)-like virus; and
a B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus.
For quadrivalent vaccines with two influenza B viruses, a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus should be added to the strains mentioned above.
These recommendations apply to the manufacture of both inactivated and live attenuated influenza vaccines. |
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"You alter the vaccine as mutations are discovered. So Covid vaccines will become a yearly event, just like flu vaccines.
Quite right. Both the mRNA approach from BioNTech and the viral vector approach from Oxford can be easily edited to include a new sequence for the spike protein (these are both very different to the way flu vaccines are designed). The bottleneck will be the production of an edited vaccine. For flu vaccines, production occurs approx 6 months prior to it being used and stocks are built up. Both Pfizer and AZ started manufacturing the vaccine ahead of approval (a gamble), so we've started "ahead" of ourselves. Normally at the point of approval, there's no material been manufactured just in case approval is denied.
How did covid affect the "gamble" this year ? Is there less flu variants this year ?
I have no idea. The strains of flu to include in the annual vaccine is decided about 6 months ahead of time, based on what circulates in the Southern hemisphere winter. We won't know enough about what flu strains have been circulating or how many affected until our winter is over.
Recommendations of the European Medicines Authority in April 2020 for the winter 2020/21 vaccine:
Manufacturers of egg-based or live attenuated trivalent vaccines for the 2020/2021 season should include these three virus strains:
an A/Guangdong-Maonan/SWL1536/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
an A/Hong Kong/2671/2019 (H3N2)-like virus; and
a B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus.
Manufacturers of cell-based trivalent vaccines for the 2020/2021 season should include these three virus strains:
an A/Hawaii/70/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
an A/Hong Kong/45/2019 (H3N2)-like virus; and
a B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus.
For quadrivalent vaccines with two influenza B viruses, a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus should be added to the strains mentioned above.
These recommendations apply to the manufacture of both inactivated and live attenuated influenza vaccines."
Thanks for that comprehensive reply. |
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" Both the mRNA approach from BioNTech and the viral vector approach from Oxford can be easily edited to include a new sequence for the spike protein (these are both very different to the way flu vaccines are designed)."
Is it that simple? Once you add a new sequence, isn't it a new active ingredient? In which case you'd need new safety and efficacy clinical trials. |
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" Both the mRNA approach from BioNTech and the viral vector approach from Oxford can be easily edited to include a new sequence for the spike protein (these are both very different to the way flu vaccines are designed).
Is it that simple? Once you add a new sequence, isn't it a new active ingredient? In which case you'd need new safety and efficacy clinical trials."
No. All you're doing is removing one piece of mRNA (BioNTech) or RNA (Oxford), made up of nucleotide letters U, A, G and C and replacing with another section of mRNA/RNA with a very marginally different sequence of the letters. RNA and DNA code is universal in all organisms - there's no difference to the components that make up viral RNA vs RNA found in human cells. The other bits don't need to change - the fats etc making up the lipid bubble (BioNTech) or the various chemicals making up the transfer medium (Oxford). I posted a list of the ingredients of both vaccines on a thread last night, by the way.
In short yes, it's as easy as substituting one RNA sequence for another. BioNTech reckons 4-6 weeks to re-engineer and get amended vaccine produced and Oxford repeated similar figures. |
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The more people that the virus is replicated by, the greater the volume of replication, the greater the amount of mutations that will occur and some of them accrue, as likely having some evolutionary advantages, compared to their predecessors.
Whilst it's being reproduced, it's going to be mutating. To stop mutation, we have to fully stop its reproduction in host people, by stopping all infection spreading |
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"The more people that the virus is replicated by, the greater the volume of replication, the greater the amount of mutations that will occur and some of them accrue, as likely having some evolutionary advantages, compared to their predecessors.
Whilst it's being reproduced, it's going to be mutating. To stop mutation, we have to fully stop its reproduction in host people, by stopping all infection spreading "
I missed the question almost completely - I'm tired.
The other answers cover the solution well. Where mutations are addressed fairly easily. The regulator determines whether the additional modification data they receive is sufficient to approve continued use of the adjusted vaccine. |
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Some mutations are harder to deal with than others. Just because so far they havent proven to be so different doesnt mean they wont be far more potent in the future. Elimination is the only failsafe.
You can take a risk it doesnt mutate so much but you simply do not know. |
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By *ldaCouple
over a year ago
sutton Coldfield |
I’m not an expert, but my understanding is that viruses mutate to become more transmissible, but less fatal. It’s not in a virus interest to kill its host after all. People seem to think ‘mutate’ means more deadly, as in science fiction, little green monsters type thing |
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"I’m not an expert, but my understanding is that viruses mutate to become more transmissible, but less fatal. It’s not in a virus interest to kill its host after all. People seem to think ‘mutate’ means more deadly, as in science fiction, little green monsters type thing"
There's no hard and fast biological rule to that effect, but is often the case that lethality is unlikely to increase along with increased spread. |
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"You could close the borders, it won't stop covid from mutating. It will stop it getting here though."
It's already here and in higher numbers. If a plane comes to the UK with 200 people on board there is a chance that someone on that plane has covid. If that plane then leaves the UK with 200 people, there is a greater chance that someone on that plane has covid simply because of the number of cases we have in the UK is pretty much the highest in the world per head.
If those 200 people coming into the UK isolate as required then the virus won't spread. If that flight never happened then those 200 who didn't leave the UK would still be here and unknowingly spreading the virus.
It would of course prevent / slow down the spread of new strains. |
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