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Stop covid to save NHS
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By *lk Guy OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
This is what where being told
But as long as I can recall the last 10 years the NHS has been under funded and shortage of beds and even closed wards and A&E services
So they was struggling before and
If the death rate was still high the first time and all general service was shut no operation no cancer check up no blood or heart lung or any other services was in use why didn’t they use Nightingale hospital
What’s people’s thoughts on that |
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I believe it's because of the covid needing to be isolated within the hospital. Normally even when its overloaded the staff can move freely. But with covid they have to keep to separate wards to stop everyone in the hospital getting covid. So the same resources provide a lot less with covid around.
I'm no expert by the way. Just what I've gathered from various people. |
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I'm no expert but I've never understood why the Nightingale hospitals couldn't be opened with a skeleton staff.
Why not have a minimal NHS staff and fill in the rest with university students studying to be doctors, nurses, pharmacists etc? Surely the advanced students will have the knowledge needed and also gain useful practical training? And they'll be too tired from working to organise large student parties? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm no expert but I've never understood why the Nightingale hospitals couldn't be opened with a skeleton staff.
Why not have a minimal NHS staff and fill in the rest with university students studying to be doctors, nurses, pharmacists etc? Surely the advanced students will have the knowledge needed and also gain useful practical training? And they'll be too tired from working to organise large student parties?"
from what i can gather its the opposite... hospitalised covid patients generally need more critical care that you would need even more training and experience for and the medical staff can attend to less patients than normal due to the level of care required...
without meaning to be disrespectful, its not like pulling someone off the til to switch to click and collect orders ... medical training is much more complex |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what where being told
But as long as I can recall the last 10 years the NHS has been under funded and shortage of beds and even closed wards and A&E services
So they was struggling before and
If the death rate was still high the first time and all general service was shut no operation no cancer check up no blood or heart lung or any other services was in use why didn’t they use Nightingale hospital
What’s people’s thoughts on that "
Nightingale hospital was a big mistake, no staff to man them. Great idea but needed more thought.
Maybe move staff and all Covid patients from hospitals to nightingale. They might need to expand but it will separate Covid patients and normal patients, enabling hospitals to carry out all routine and emergency care? Granted at a reduced capacity but more lives will be saved. |
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When all electives and non life threatening surgery was cancelled the staff were able to re allocated to support the Covid surge. This included the Nightingale hospitals. That’s why it’s not so easy to just reopen them.
Student staff have been working through this for no pay during the whole pandemic. They need their fees covered and a bloody good reference at the end of it all. I’ve known staff with decades of experience break through all of this, let alone those fresh to it. |
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Most of the student nurses had their contracts cut short, and they got paid
Credit ITV 17 June 2020
Thousands of student nurses recruited to work on the front line against Covid-19 have been told their placements will be cut short, plunging some of them into financial despair.
Many nurses expressed their outrage at a decision from NHS England that their paid placements will now finish on 31 July instead of running until the end of September.
But Health Education England (HEE) – which oversees training – said that it was "made clear to students who opted into paid placements" that the arrangements would need to come to an end at "an appropriate point".
One nurse calling herself Becky Jane said nurses had been told by HEE that the NHS can no longer afford to keep the paid placements going until the end of September as originally promised.
“Some of us left jobs for this. Many of us have children and families to care for," she wrote on a message on Facebook.
She said nurses could graduate with around £30,000 debt already and had signed up for the six-month placements at the start of April despite being “terrified” of contracting Covid-19.
“Please do not clap for your NHS. Please in future consider voting to fund it properly,” she added. |
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"Most of the student nurses had their contracts cut short, and they got paid
Credit ITV 17 June 2020
Thousands of student nurses recruited to work on the front line against Covid-19 have been told their placements will be cut short, plunging some of them into financial despair.
Many nurses expressed their outrage at a decision from NHS England that their paid placements will now finish on 31 July instead of running until the end of September.
But Health Education England (HEE) – which oversees training – said that it was "made clear to students who opted into paid placements" that the arrangements would need to come to an end at "an appropriate point".
One nurse calling herself Becky Jane said nurses had been told by HEE that the NHS can no longer afford to keep the paid placements going until the end of September as originally promised.
“Some of us left jobs for this. Many of us have children and families to care for," she wrote on a message on Facebook.
She said nurses could graduate with around £30,000 debt already and had signed up for the six-month placements at the start of April despite being “terrified” of contracting Covid-19.
“Please do not clap for your NHS. Please in future consider voting to fund it properly,” she added."
I believe that only covered final year students and expired in September. My understanding is that all other students were exempt, although I do hope not  |
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"Who will look after the sick in the nightingale hospital?? Where are the nurses and doctors going to come from "
They've had best part of a year to recruit / train them. There's not many excuses for being understaffed a year into this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who will look after the sick in the nightingale hospital?? Where are the nurses and doctors going to come from
They've had best part of a year to recruit / train them. There's not many excuses for being understaffed a year into this. "
you ever tried training while fire fighting at work? and with face to face uni places off? and medical courses are usually 4 years plus ... its not as black and white as you suggest |
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To start nurse training you need a degree.
So I think it takes longer and is harder then people think. The wife is a Nurse and I strugl with sum of the maths question she dose.
When looking at drips etc. |
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can't remember the details exactly, might be able to get my hands on the original correspondence, but lots of final year student nurses, midwives etc, were offered a 6 month paid contract which also gave them automatic ending and i assume pass of their degree, how many, if any finished the 6 months and so passed their degree, no one seems to know, likewise the ones that were sacked in the middle of the 6 month contract. |
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"Who will look after the sick in the nightingale hospital?? Where are the nurses and doctors going to come from
They've had best part of a year to recruit / train them. There's not many excuses for being understaffed a year into this.
you ever tried training while fire fighting at work? and with face to face uni places off? and medical courses are usually 4 years plus ... its not as black and white as you suggest "
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"Who will look after the sick in the nightingale hospital?? Where are the nurses and doctors going to come from
They've had best part of a year to recruit / train them. There's not many excuses for being understaffed a year into this.
you ever tried training while fire fighting at work? and with face to face uni places off? and medical courses are usually 4 years plus ... its not as black and white as you suggest "
Not for one moment suggesting training is quick. I'm suggesting we make the best of what we can do in the dire circumstances and suggesting that the highly paid management of the nhs need to do better at recruitment and training.
Is the answer not to try at all? We don't have the luxury of time... And even if we did have time.. Would we be proactively training and recruiting? How long is long enough? Do we have more nurses and doctors now than 12 months ago? If not why not? This isn't going away anytime soon. We have this for a minimum of 12 months more, then we have 2 years of catch up of all the postponed activities. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Watched GMBthis morning and there was a male nurse explaining the reason for not being used thus far there is no one to staff it.. would mean pulling staff from already short staffed hospitals to man it |
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By *lk Guy OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
So if they can’t be used and never been able to why the Big Headline News and false information
So basically where being lied to
I knew all along they couldn’t open because the NHS has had cut after Cut after Cut
It’s sad no one seem to be held to Account for it
And if they can’t be used for covid patients why not open them to all the Old People in hospital that shouldn’t be their that’s taking up vital beds that could be used for covid patients
Coz hospital has thousands of them
No mention of that in News
We Need to be Stopped being lied to |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some interesting takes on here, thjnk there’s fair points being asked
Why build nightingales if they could never be staffed? Seems like apontless and expensive PR charade af this point
Full nursing takes 4 years but would a Covid centric crash course take that? Maybe, but I think not. If it was me on the bed I’d rather someone with 8 months training than nobody
Hinesite clearly but countries like Israel have benefited from having a military service hardened population and 10s of 1000s of people with useful skills
A territorial/reservist nhs also makes a lot of sense to me, clearly too late for Covid but establishing soemthing like that seems sensible for what we is next round the corner taking lessons learned here. Something bill gates advocates for some time
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So if they can’t be used and never been able to why the Big Headline News and false information
So basically where being lied to
I knew all along they couldn’t open because the NHS has had cut after Cut after Cut
It’s sad no one seem to be held to Account for it
And if they can’t be used for covid patients why not open them to all the Old People in hospital that shouldn’t be their that’s taking up vital beds that could be used for covid patients
Coz hospital has thousands of them
No mention of that in News
We Need to be Stopped being lied to "
Have you offered to train to become a nurse? What are you doing to help?
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"Some interesting takes on here, thjnk there’s fair points being asked
Why build nightingales if they could never be staffed? Seems like apontless and expensive PR charade af this point
Full nursing takes 4 years but would a Covid centric crash course take that? Maybe, but I think not. If it was me on the bed I’d rather someone with 8 months training than nobody
Hinesite clearly but countries like Israel have benefited from having a military service hardened population and 10s of 1000s of people with useful skills
A territorial/reservist nhs also makes a lot of sense to me, clearly too late for Covid but establishing soemthing like that seems sensible for what we is next round the corner taking lessons learned here. Something bill gates advocates for some time
"
Arent The nhs stort staffed as it is?
They were supposed to be taking on x amount last year.
I think a reserve list is a bit optimistic tbh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why couldnt the medics from the UK forces man the Nightingale Hospitals when required to do so ?
Did this shit show of a government not realise that they didnt have enough staff to run them . Remember how pleased they were with themselves when the got them built so quickly, thought they were heroes  |
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"Why couldnt the medics from the UK forces man the Nightingale Hospitals when required to do so ?
Did this shit show of a government not realise that they didnt have enough staff to run them . Remember how pleased they were with themselves when the got them built so quickly, thought they were heroes "
I dont think there is enough.
There have been cutbacks everywhere for the last decade in practically everything. |
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We are a year into this pandemic now, we had cases in this country way before the March lockdown.
We started this pandemic with between 58,000 and 86,000 doctors and nurses short and that’s never been addressed.
The virus spread like wildfire in Kent during lockdown 2 even though the government sent an epidemiologist there to understand why as they thought people were bracing the restrictions wholesale but they weren’t.
The only way out of this mess is vaccination, the NHS isn’t fit for purpose as it stands to cope, bloody hell it falls over every winter with a small flu outbreak.
Forget Hancock snd the idiots from SAGE talking shit all the time, they all need arses kicked as to why the NHS is the 5th largest employer in the world but basically has not enough frontline staff.
Serious frontline staff recruitment is needed and the mass of cream-cake eating administrators that are not needed sacked ! |
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"We are a year into this pandemic now, we had cases in this country way before the March lockdown.
We started this pandemic with between 58,000 and 86,000 doctors and nurses short and that’s never been addressed.
The virus spread like wildfire in Kent during lockdown 2 even though the government sent an epidemiologist there to understand why as they thought people were bracing the restrictions wholesale but they weren’t.
The only way out of this mess is vaccination, the NHS isn’t fit for purpose as it stands to cope, bloody hell it falls over every winter with a small flu outbreak.
Forget Hancock snd the idiots from SAGE talking shit all the time, they all need arses kicked as to why the NHS is the 5th largest employer in the world but basically has not enough frontline staff.
Serious frontline staff recruitment is needed and the mass of cream-cake eating administrators that are not needed sacked !"
And theres your answer. As easy as that. |
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"We are a year into this pandemic now, we had cases in this country way before the March lockdown.
We started this pandemic with between 58,000 and 86,000 doctors and nurses short and that’s never been addressed.
The virus spread like wildfire in Kent during lockdown 2 even though the government sent an epidemiologist there to understand why as they thought people were bracing the restrictions wholesale but they weren’t.
The only way out of this mess is vaccination, the NHS isn’t fit for purpose as it stands to cope, bloody hell it falls over every winter with a small flu outbreak.
Forget Hancock snd the idiots from SAGE talking shit all the time, they all need arses kicked as to why the NHS is the 5th largest employer in the world but basically has not enough frontline staff.
Serious frontline staff recruitment is needed and the mass of cream-cake eating administrators that are not needed sacked !"
Cant disagree with any of that.
The only thing I'd say is,its easy to have a pop at 'pen pushers 'but without backline workers, services could not function. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We are a year into this pandemic now, we had cases in this country way before the March lockdown.
We started this pandemic with between 58,000 and 86,000 doctors and nurses short and that’s never been addressed.
The virus spread like wildfire in Kent during lockdown 2 even though the government sent an epidemiologist there to understand why as they thought people were bracing the restrictions wholesale but they weren’t.
The only way out of this mess is vaccination, the NHS isn’t fit for purpose as it stands to cope, bloody hell it falls over every winter with a small flu outbreak.
Forget Hancock snd the idiots from SAGE talking shit all the time, they all need arses kicked as to why the NHS is the 5th largest employer in the world but basically has not enough frontline staff.
Serious frontline staff recruitment is needed and the mass of cream-cake eating administrators that are not needed sacked !
Cant disagree with any of that.
The only thing I'd say is,its easy to have a pop at 'pen pushers 'but without backline workers, services could not function. "
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Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed. |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed."
Maybe the paper work side of things has gone up?
I don't know.
I don't work in the NHS, but I just think pen pushers are often a lazy target.
Imagine an ambulance service for example without the office staff. |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed."
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well. |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well. "
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack. |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack."
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues? |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack.
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues? "
Mental health service cuts fact checked
https://fullfact.org/health/mental-health-spending-england/ |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack.
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues? "
An increasing aging population is surely more likely to result in more people needing to be treated?
There are increasing health inequalities particularly in the north.
And like I said previously, an increasing population
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack.
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues?
An increasing aging population is surely more likely to result in more people needing to be treated?
There are increasing health inequalities particularly in the north.
And like I said previously, an increasing population
"
So increasing health issues is people living longer? It's certainly true even in my life time... 80 is thought as no age now whereas 30 years ago someone had done well to get to 80. But I'd have thought people living longer was not really a health issue so much as a wellness issue. |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack.
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues?
An increasing aging population is surely more likely to result in more people needing to be treated?
There are increasing health inequalities particularly in the north.
And like I said previously, an increasing population
So increasing health issues is people living longer? It's certainly true even in my life time... 80 is thought as no age now whereas 30 years ago someone had done well to get to 80. But I'd have thought people living longer was not really a health issue so much as a wellness issue. "
Surely if you get older you are more prone to picking up ailments? |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack.
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues?
An increasing aging population is surely more likely to result in more people needing to be treated?
There are increasing health inequalities particularly in the north.
And like I said previously, an increasing population
So increasing health issues is people living longer? It's certainly true even in my life time... 80 is thought as no age now whereas 30 years ago someone had done well to get to 80. But I'd have thought people living longer was not really a health issue so much as a wellness issue.
Surely if you get older you are more prone to picking up ailments?"
Absolutely. But you can look half glass full or empty... People are living and healthy for many more years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack.
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues?
An increasing aging population is surely more likely to result in more people needing to be treated?
There are increasing health inequalities particularly in the north.
And like I said previously, an increasing population
So increasing health issues is people living longer? It's certainly true even in my life time... 80 is thought as no age now whereas 30 years ago someone had done well to get to 80. But I'd have thought people living longer was not really a health issue so much as a wellness issue.
Surely if you get older you are more prone to picking up ailments?
Absolutely. But you can look half glass full or empty... People are living and healthy for many more years. "
wether you look at it half full or half empty its a double edged sword that lets people have a longer life and spend more time with family but facts still remain your body deteriorates as you age and you are more likely to need medical care which is an additional requirement on the nhs ... you dont have to view it negatively but it is still a factor |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack.
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues?
An increasing aging population is surely more likely to result in more people needing to be treated?
There are increasing health inequalities particularly in the north.
And like I said previously, an increasing population
So increasing health issues is people living longer? It's certainly true even in my life time... 80 is thought as no age now whereas 30 years ago someone had done well to get to 80. But I'd have thought people living longer was not really a health issue so much as a wellness issue.
Surely if you get older you are more prone to picking up ailments?
Absolutely. But you can look half glass full or empty... People are living and healthy for many more years. "
Of course.
It's a good thing (well in certain parts of the country)
But if you cut a service ahd demand is going up..the result Is inevitable |
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"Ive worked in the NHS for near 30 years. When I first started a ward of 24 could regularly have 10 nursing staff. Now that same ward will be lucky to have 5. In that time however the amount of admin staff, managers, god knows all what has rocketed.
30byears.. Hopefully some job satisfaction buried in there. Do you think that also our knowledge of how to treat people and what are needed have changed possibly improved and driven some of those changes too? As an example the use of day surgery... I was in an out in a day for my operation which 20 years ago would have been a 3 day stay. Heart checkups used to involve a day in a room and now can be done using a WiFi device in 15 minutes. Not for one minute suggesting it's all due to that... It clearly isn't... But a lot of companies have seen a lot of changes in 30 years (we can debate for the better or not?) and most will have been reducing staffing levels, so why should the nhs not see some effects as well.
Because the demand has gone up?
Increased and aged population..increasing health issues?
Havent loads of mental health services also been cut?which means hospitals take up the slack.
I can't comment on mental health services and if they spend less now than they did 30 years ago. I don't know. Nor do I know there is any truth in hospitals taking up the slack. But I'm interested in the "increasing health issues" and what you mean by that. One would have thought that as we become more aware of health issue we resolve them and they would decrease over time. So what are you thinking of with increasing health issues?
An increasing aging population is surely more likely to result in more people needing to be treated?
There are increasing health inequalities particularly in the north.
And like I said previously, an increasing population
So increasing health issues is people living longer? It's certainly true even in my life time... 80 is thought as no age now whereas 30 years ago someone had done well to get to 80. But I'd have thought people living longer was not really a health issue so much as a wellness issue.
Surely if you get older you are more prone to picking up ailments?
Absolutely. But you can look half glass full or empty... People are living and healthy for many more years.
wether you look at it half full or half empty its a double edged sword that lets people have a longer life and spend more time with family but facts still remain your body deteriorates as you age and you are more likely to need medical care which is an additional requirement on the nhs ... you dont have to view it negatively but it is still a factor "
Which means that services like the nhs need more money not cutbacks. |
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We can't make a comparison between previous years and the current dire situation. Health and care services have had real term cuts to their budgets for 10 years, which have certainly degraded the quality of service care. This winter, despite much of the scope of ss being adjusted because of the covid-19 crisis, we are now in potentially devastating conditions. We could have a race to the bottom and accept that we should be content with falling standards, ever moving downwards but that will help nobody. If we are able to improve things, by focusing on what we can do differently, that is an entirely reasonable perspective.
We have a potential crisis that could be catastrophic. Infection levels are in exponential growth, especially in London and the South East and the East. Other areas will potentially not be immune to the effects. It's right to take action and not to accept the status quo. |
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"I'm no expert but I've never understood why the Nightingale hospitals couldn't be opened with a skeleton staff.
Why not have a minimal NHS staff and fill in the rest with university students studying to be doctors, nurses, pharmacists etc? Surely the advanced students will have the knowledge needed and also gain useful practical training? And they'll be too tired from working to organise large student parties?"
No staff to staff them with, massive political stunt unfortunately that cost millions and millions of tax payers money but the stick the government would have got if they hadn't done something like this would have been far worse. |
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By *aralewisCouple
over a year ago
South Yorkshire |
So when the government goes on about STOP HOME TO SAVE NHS
They should of thought about it without making Cut Year after year
And all money they borrowed still no great investment in social care so hospitals and still full it’s a Scandal |
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"So when the government goes on about STOP HOME TO SAVE NHS
They should of thought about it without making Cut Year after year
And all money they borrowed still no great investment in social care so hospitals and still full it’s a Scandal "
That's a different issue...
The one thingvthat we all have control over and have power to manage is what we do in lockdown. We can either choose to stay in or if we go out stay distanced. Or we can choose to break the rules, spread the infection and put stress on the nhs which as you've already said is under resourced. |
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but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help. |
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help."
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How many people have died from Winter flu this winter so far ? Doesnt seem to be reported on , 20k approx apparently every winter . My guess is they have all been put down to covid deaths to scare and control those that will listen |
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"This is what where being told
But as long as I can recall the last 10 years the NHS has been under funded and shortage of beds and even closed wards and A&E services
So they was struggling before and
If the death rate was still high the first time and all general service was shut no operation no cancer check up no blood or heart lung or any other services was in use why didn’t they use Nightingale hospital
What’s people’s thoughts on that "
Don’t vote Tory and mistakes won’t be repeated |
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help.
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams. "
Utter bs ..... |
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help."
It takes more than ten months to train a nurse, then it's even more training to bring them to the standards required for critical care in an ICU.. |
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help.
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams.
Utter bs ..... "
Really. Take a look at the adverts for the nhs. Who recruits? Who employs? Who pays? You may not like the answer but it doesn't mean the answer is wrong. |
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help.
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams.
Utter bs .....
Really. Take a look at the adverts for the nhs. Who recruits? Who employs? Who pays? You may not like the answer but it doesn't mean the answer is wrong."
Who’s job is it to ensure the NHS is properly funded?
That’s like accusing someone on UC of bad budgeting when they only get £400 a month. |
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help.
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams.
Utter bs .....
Really. Take a look at the adverts for the nhs. Who recruits? Who employs? Who pays? You may not like the answer but it doesn't mean the answer is wrong.
Who’s job is it to ensure the NHS is properly funded?
That’s like accusing someone on UC of bad budgeting when they only get £400 a month. "
That's a completely different question. And much more complex as the trusts are responsible for their budgets.but yes most of the trusts funds come from the tax payer via the govt. |
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help.
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams. "
Remember the lies they told about the new hospitals and nurses?
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help.
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams.
Utter bs .....
Really. Take a look at the adverts for the nhs. Who recruits? Who employs? Who pays? You may not like the answer but it doesn't mean the answer is wrong.
Who’s job is it to ensure the NHS is properly funded?
That’s like accusing someone on UC of bad budgeting when they only get £400 a month.
That's a completely different question. And much more complex as the trusts are responsible for their budgets.but yes most of the trusts funds come from the tax payer via the govt. "
Then if the trusts in the whole of the country don’t have enough money to run the service that is needed how can you possibly blame the trusts? |
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help.
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams.
Utter bs .....
Really. Take a look at the adverts for the nhs. Who recruits? Who employs? Who pays? You may not like the answer but it doesn't mean the answer is wrong.
Who’s job is it to ensure the NHS is properly funded?
That’s like accusing someone on UC of bad budgeting when they only get £400 a month.
That's a completely different question. And much more complex as the trusts are responsible for their budgets.but yes most of the trusts funds come from the tax payer via the govt.
Then if the trusts in the whole of the country don’t have enough money to run the service that is needed how can you possibly blame the trusts? "
You're arguing a completely different point. My point is simply that the trusts have responsibility for their own recruitment.
Your other point is considerably more complex and I've advocated on plenty of threads we need to have a debate on what the nhs is, how it achieves success, how much it will cost and how and how much we are prepared to pay for it.... Its our money that pays for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How many people have died from Winter flu this winter so far ? Doesnt seem to be reported on , 20k approx apparently every winter . My guess is they have all been put down to covid deaths to scare and control those that will listen "
or with all the extra flu jabs administered and social distancing, hand hygiene , mask wearing etc much less people caught the flu this year |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"but it shouldn't be under resourced maybe 10 month ago but what as the gov done in 10th month to help the nhs??? absolutely nothing. why didn't they go and get more nurses to help with the back log of care that was needed to start with and they would have now more staff to help.
Because its not the govrs job to do that. That's the job of the management of the nhs trusts to resource their health care teams.
Utter bs .....
Really. Take a look at the adverts for the nhs. Who recruits? Who employs? Who pays? You may not like the answer but it doesn't mean the answer is wrong.
Who’s job is it to ensure the NHS is properly funded?
That’s like accusing someone on UC of bad budgeting when they only get £400 a month.
That's a completely different question. And much more complex as the trusts are responsible for their budgets.but yes most of the trusts funds come from the tax payer via the govt. "
also not mutually exclusive concepts, your budget can bee too small and it can be mismanaged |
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