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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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There are many on here who anytime anyone mentions it being a trying time for the nation, bring up old leaders, your Churchills and Thatchers etc... Making remarks about how people are being soft compared to the war time people. How those leaders would have had this sorted.
I'd like to point out that if Churchill or Thatcher had been in charge of us currently there would be no finding a balance between saving lives and the economy... The economy and future of the nation would be the priority and the vulnerable would be seen as a sacrifice for the greater good. They would have created digging jobs for mass graves within the blink of an eye.
So, maybe, they aren't really the types of leaders anyone should wish for. |
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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago
East Lancashire |
"There are many on here who anytime anyone mentions it being a trying time for the nation, bring up old leaders, your Churchills and Thatchers etc... Making remarks about how people are being soft compared to the war time people. How those leaders would have had this sorted.
I'd like to point out that if Churchill or Thatcher had been in charge of us currently there would be no finding a balance between saving lives and the economy... The economy and future of the nation would be the priority and the vulnerable would be seen as a sacrifice for the greater good. They would have created digging jobs for mass graves within the blink of an eye.
So, maybe, they aren't really the types of leaders anyone should wish for. "
Well, I dont think Churchill would, and I would like to think that even Twatcher (spelling intended) wouldn't. But I am sure there will be many on here extolling their virtues in such a situation as this.....just as there will be some who wont.
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Changed my mind about Twatcher.....think she would consider it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are many on here who anytime anyone mentions it being a trying time for the nation, bring up old leaders, your Churchills and Thatchers etc... Making remarks about how people are being soft compared to the war time people. How those leaders would have had this sorted.
I'd like to point out that if Churchill or Thatcher had been in charge of us currently there would be no finding a balance between saving lives and the economy... The economy and future of the nation would be the priority and the vulnerable would be seen as a sacrifice for the greater good. They would have created digging jobs for mass graves within the blink of an eye.
So, maybe, they aren't really the types of leaders anyone should wish for. "
I reckon this government will have seen an opportunity to get rid of the lower classes but planning it surreptitiously |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke FREE ENTRANCE ALL WEEKEND |
"
I reckon this government will have seen an opportunity to get rid of the lower classes but planning it surreptitiously "
So all the workers gone then? That's an amazingly spiffing plan. No bus drivers no shop workers no parcel carriers no road diggers no refuse collectors no teachers no nurses no police folks . . . |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I believe Churchill wouldnt even blink over the decision to let people die, look what he allegedly did to Coventry, let the luftwaffe bombard them so the Germans didn't know they'd cracked the code... |
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By *AYENCouple
over a year ago
Lincolnshire |
Those that continually whine about our government remind me of armchair referees. Safe at home sat on their backside criticising the guys that have actually got up and are making decisions and caring the burden of responsibility.
Yet they never want to put themselves forward for such a job and can never tell you what they would do going forward - fucking twats! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Not sure about getting rid of the lower classes but I'm sure they'll be happy about the amount of people dependent on the government for assistance at the moment |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are many on here who anytime anyone mentions it being a trying time for the nation, bring up old leaders, your Churchills and Thatchers etc... Making remarks about how people are being soft compared to the war time people. How those leaders would have had this sorted.
I'd like to point out that if Churchill or Thatcher had been in charge of us currently there would be no finding a balance between saving lives and the economy... The economy and future of the nation would be the priority and the vulnerable would be seen as a sacrifice for the greater good. They would have created digging jobs for mass graves within the blink of an eye.
So, maybe, they aren't really the types of leaders anyone should wish for. "
As someone who has today used Churchill as an example i would add that I have never voted Tory despite living in the South and its unlikely i ever would.
I can see your reasoning based on their reputations and its something that i would dogmatically have agreed with many years ago however the point is for better or worse they would have stuck to there guns and not dithered as much as Boris and the current rabble.
Whether they would sacrifice the vulnerable as in the elderly, that remains questionable as a larger percentage of the elderly vote Tory generally.
It’s quite likely as well that a Labour Leader from the past would equally have stuck to his guns, thats prior to Blair.
Of course pre internet, social media and the technology revolution governments could keep control easier and had more influence with the media much of which support the Tories anyway.
The problem for the Political class is that over the years they have become less and less trusted and until fairly recently have been career politicians and in the main male.
I think things are and will change for the better with more women in places of power and more people who have not come from the traditional upper class and Oxbridge institutions. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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That is very true about sticking to their guns, under them people would at least have known where they stand. I said a few days ago that the indecision, bad examples set by leaders, the constant changing of tactics and uturns have all contributed to the attitude of the people that couldn't give a fuck less about the rules right now. Not saying they are right BTW just that it's quite easy to draw a correlation between the ups and down and backs and forth we have been getting dragged through and the weariness of some people's level. Of care. |
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"There are many on here who anytime anyone mentions it being a trying time for the nation, bring up old leaders, your Churchills and Thatchers etc... Making remarks about how people are being soft compared to the war time people. How those leaders would have had this sorted.
I'd like to point out that if Churchill or Thatcher had been in charge of us currently there would be no finding a balance between saving lives and the economy... The economy and future of the nation would be the priority and the vulnerable would be seen as a sacrifice for the greater good. They would have created digging jobs for mass graves within the blink of an eye.
So, maybe, they aren't really the types of leaders anyone should wish for. "
oh you have spoken to both of them?  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It's not harsh at all, more realistic, it's not really a stretch to say that both were very capable of making a decision for what they deemed the greater good, no matter the hatred they may have gotten or the cost that would have been created by their decision. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Those that continually whine about our government remind me of armchair referees. Safe at home sat on their backside criticising the guys that have actually got up and are making decisions and caring the burden of responsibility.
Yet they never want to put themselves forward for such a job and can never tell you what they would do going forward - fucking twats!"
Try putting yourself forward for any major political party and see how far you get. Unless you adopt the mantra and ideals your on a one way ticket to nowhere.
One can of course step up to the plate as an independent but then your are fighting the established parties who band together should you have a modicum of success.
I agree that doing administration is a pretty thankless task having done a fair bit myself in a voluntary capacity however because your in that role you have to take the critique which is relentlessly the brickbats and occasional praise.
The nature of people is to criticise when somethings wrong and less likely to applaud when somethings right.
You only need to look at reviews for that |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Quite obviously not. But a sharp brain can easily draw conclusion from the vast amount of information there is on both of them.
So, anything substantial to add or not? |
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"I believe Churchill wouldnt even blink over the decision to let people die, look what he allegedly did to Coventry, let the luftwaffe bombard them so the Germans didn't know they'd cracked the code... "
To be fair, was far from the worst thing that could have happened to Coventry and some of us are hoping for a repeat.... |
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By *horltzMan
over a year ago
heysham |
"It's not harsh at all, more realistic, it's not really a stretch to say that both were very capable of making a decision for what they deemed the greater good, no matter the hatred they may have gotten or the cost that would have been created by their decision. "
It is harsh , they are dead and you are inventing scenarios on their behalf |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Nobody on here likes him but for an example of someone who went his own route and struggled, look at nigel farage. Further to that, look how poorly any other political party does compared to lab and cons. No matter how good their ideas are |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It's not at all, would it be harsh if I did the same about Hitler or stalin? No it wouldn't, it'd be the same. Just because you're a fan of them you don't have to blindly defend them.
Its not hard to draw correlations between how they acted when alive, and how theyd have acted if this was the struggle of their time. |
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By *horltzMan
over a year ago
heysham |
It’s unfair and harsh to invent scenarios about anyone no matter who they are ! Your original post is pure fiction , the reality is you are just guessing what they may do about the current situation , pure fiction ! |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"There are many on here who anytime anyone mentions it being a trying time for the nation, bring up old leaders, your Churchills and Thatchers etc... Making remarks about how people are being soft compared to the war time people. How those leaders would have had this sorted.
I'd like to point out that if Churchill or Thatcher had been in charge of us currently there would be no finding a balance between saving lives and the economy... The economy and future of the nation would be the priority and the vulnerable would be seen as a sacrifice for the greater good. They would have created digging jobs for mass graves within the blink of an eye.
So, maybe, they aren't really the types of leaders anyone should wish for.
I reckon this government will have seen an opportunity to get rid of the lower classes but planning it surreptitiously "
why would they want to get rid of the lower classes???without the lower classes the wouldnt be workers to drive the trains and busses work in factorys serve them in waitrose and sainsbury or where ever they shop.if that really was the plan there wouldnt of been a lockdown |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s unfair and harsh to invent scenarios about anyone no matter who they are ! Your original post is pure fiction , the reality is you are just guessing what they may do about the current situation , pure fiction !"
Essentially you do that at an election for current living politicians.
Whatever they promise your guessing and hoping they will honour it . |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke FREE ENTRANCE ALL WEEKEND |
"There are many on here who anytime anyone mentions it being a trying time for the nation, bring up old leaders, your Churchills and Thatchers etc... Making remarks about how people are being soft compared to the war time people. How those leaders would have had this sorted.
I'd like to point out that if Churchill or Thatcher had been in charge of us currently there would be no finding a balance between saving lives and the economy... The economy and future of the nation would be the priority and the vulnerable would be seen as a sacrifice for the greater good. They would have created digging jobs for mass graves within the blink of an eye.
So, maybe, they aren't really the types of leaders anyone should wish for.
I reckon this government will have seen an opportunity to get rid of the lower classes but planning it surreptitiously
why would they want to get rid of the lower classes???without the lower classes the wouldnt be workers to drive the trains and busses work in factorys serve them in waitrose and sainsbury or where ever they shop.if that really was the plan there wouldnt of been a lockdown"
Yea. The trouble with conspiracy theories is that they are never quite joined up lol |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"It's not at all, would it be harsh if I did the same about Hitler or stalin? No it wouldn't, it'd be the same. Just because you're a fan of them you don't have to blindly defend them.
Its not hard to draw correlations between how they acted when alive, and how theyd have acted if this was the struggle of their time. "
I'm surprised at the vehemence of some of the responses. Yes it's hypothetical but I've seen people here say yeah but at least it's not Corbyn. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke FREE ENTRANCE ALL WEEKEND |
"Hypothesis based on available information is not invention."
Entirely agree. Being able to predict the future by our experiences of the past is right and proper. And for conversational exercise, extrapolating the past into the future is also legitimate discourse |
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"Hypothesis based on available information is not invention.
Entirely agree. Being able to predict the future by our experiences of the past is right and proper. And for conversational exercise, extrapolating the past into the future is also legitimate discourse"
This.  |
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Everyone has strengths and weaknesses.
I don't think for one second that a single person would have the necessary attributes to successfully navigate WW2, political/societal reform and Covid faultlessly. |
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You can’t compare old leaders to new leaders. New leaders try and keep everyone happy by doing everything and it goes wrong. Because the public all have so many different ideas and there’s so many rights and wrongs these days and the public are heard more through social media.
In the old days leaders made a decision and there was little backlash except strikes and media headlines .
There was clear differences between labour and conservatives. Now there wouldn’t be any differences. Labour would have done more or less the same things and they would bow to what the public want. And the public want different things. So would be back to where we are today.
In Churchill’s time everyone listened to their leader hence why everyone went to war and did their bit |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everyone has strengths and weaknesses.
I don't think for one second that a single person would have the necessary attributes to successfully navigate WW2, political/societal reform and Covid faultlessly."
What!!! There’s hundreds on this forum |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"You can’t compare old leaders to new leaders. New leaders try and keep everyone happy by doing everything and it goes wrong. Because the public all have so many different ideas and there’s so many rights and wrongs these days and the public are heard more through social media.
In the old days leaders made a decision and there was little backlash except strikes and media headlines .
There was clear differences between labour and conservatives. Now there wouldn’t be any differences. Labour would have done more or less the same things and they would bow to what the public want. And the public want different things. So would be back to where we are today.
In Churchill’s time everyone listened to their leader hence why everyone went to war and did their bit "
If you fancy a more nuanced detailed view , have a read of The Splendid and the Vile by Erik Larson. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I reckon this government will have seen an opportunity to get rid of the lower classes but planning it surreptitiously
So all the workers gone then? That's an amazingly spiffing plan. No bus drivers no shop workers no parcel carriers no road diggers no refuse collectors no teachers no nurses no police folks . . . "
Police are middle class |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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That's sort of my point, we are lucky to have the leaders we do, because those types of leaders wouldn't have considered the public as much, they would have put the country first overall. Whether that meant entire lockdowns, allowing deaths, curfews, enforced vaccination etc etc |
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"Everyone has strengths and weaknesses.
I don't think for one second that a single person would have the necessary attributes to successfully navigate WW2, political/societal reform and Covid faultlessly.
What!!! There’s hundreds on this forum "
Ah, but claiming to be a leader doesn't make it true... |
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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Those that continually whine about our government remind me of armchair referees. Safe at home sat on their backside criticising the guys that have actually got up and are making decisions and caring the burden of responsibility.
Yet they never want to put themselves forward for such a job and can never tell you what they would do going forward - fucking twats!"
...and that’s why we vote them in. Besides I didn’t go to Eton. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everyone has strengths and weaknesses.
I don't think for one second that a single person would have the necessary attributes to successfully navigate WW2, political/societal reform and Covid faultlessly.
What!!! There’s hundreds on this forum
Ah, but claiming to be a leader doesn't make it true... "
Too right! Id be hiding behind the settee if one of em got into number 10  |
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