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Mix & Match Vaccines
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Right I know there is a thread on the the three week of 3 months on innoculations of the vaccine
But now our great government has decided to mix and match first vaccine ,with a different vaccine if it is more readily available then first one.
This is a government that has lost the plot and cant handle the logistics of this.
Is it any wonder why some are sceptical of this vaccine, when they are flying against public health England...vaccine makers and lots of other countries views against doing this..
You thoughts? |
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"Right I know there is a thread on the the three week of 3 months on innoculations of the vaccine
But now our great government has decided to mix and match first vaccine ,with a different vaccine if it is more readily available then first one.
This is a government that has lost the plot and cant handle the logistics of this.
Is it any wonder why some are sceptical of this vaccine, when they are flying against public health England...vaccine makers and lots of other countries views against doing this..
You thoughts?"
Its a constantly changing situation coupled with the the simple fact that it is a massive undertaking to vaccinate the world. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Right I know there is a thread on the the three week of 3 months on innoculations of the vaccine
But now our great government has decided to mix and match first vaccine ,with a different vaccine if it is more readily available then first one.
This is a government that has lost the plot and cant handle the logistics of this.
Is it any wonder why some are sceptical of this vaccine, when they are flying against public health England...vaccine makers and lots of other countries views against doing this..
You thoughts?
Its a constantly changing situation coupled with the the simple fact that it is a massive undertaking to vaccinate the world. "
But I thought we were listening to the science? The science is dead against this! |
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"Right I know there is a thread on the the three week of 3 months on innoculations of the vaccine
But now our great government has decided to mix and match first vaccine ,with a different vaccine if it is more readily available then first one.
This is a government that has lost the plot and cant handle the logistics of this.
Is it any wonder why some are sceptical of this vaccine, when they are flying against public health England...vaccine makers and lots of other countries views against doing this..
You thoughts?
Its a constantly changing situation coupled with the the simple fact that it is a massive undertaking to vaccinate the world.
But I thought we were listening to the science? The science is dead against this!"
Its been political from day one ..
Having said that even the science behind it changes.
Bottom line is that its impossible to vaccinate at the rate people expect. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Right I know there is a thread on the the three week of 3 months on innoculations of the vaccine
But now our great government has decided to mix and match first vaccine ,with a different vaccine if it is more readily available then first one.
This is a government that has lost the plot and cant handle the logistics of this.
Is it any wonder why some are sceptical of this vaccine, when they are flying against public health England...vaccine makers and lots of other countries views against doing this..
You thoughts?"
It is difficult to know exactly what the plan is here, is this the media running with half a fact or is going to be policy. I can doublecheck later but I think the offical guidelines afaik mixing vaccines is only a last resort measure. |
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"Right I know there is a thread on the the three week of 3 months on innoculations of the vaccine
But now our great government has decided to mix and match first vaccine ,with a different vaccine if it is more readily available then first one.
This is a government that has lost the plot and cant handle the logistics of this.
Is it any wonder why some are sceptical of this vaccine, when they are flying against public health England...vaccine makers and lots of other countries views against doing this..
You thoughts?
Its a constantly changing situation coupled with the the simple fact that it is a massive undertaking to vaccinate the world.
But I thought we were listening to the science? The science is dead against this!"
Actually I heard, Dr Luke O'Neill, professor of Biochemistry in Trinity College, Dublin speak about this on the radio a few weeks before Christmas and he said at the time it was good science and has been used in the past, using different vacinnes between the first and and dose. Not sure where your getting that your information that science is against it. Here's one well respected scientist that disagrees with you, given a choice, I know who I would believe. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's not quite the whole story though is it?
You're missing the part that says "it will be allowed on rare occasions""
This is the Virus forum. No facts in here.  |
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"Right I know there is a thread on the the three week of 3 months on innoculations of the vaccine
But now our great government has decided to mix and match first vaccine ,with a different vaccine if it is more readily available then first one.
This is a government that has lost the plot and cant handle the logistics of this.
Is it any wonder why some are sceptical of this vaccine, when they are flying against public health England...vaccine makers and lots of other countries views against doing this..
You thoughts?
Its a constantly changing situation coupled with the the simple fact that it is a massive undertaking to vaccinate the world.
But I thought we were listening to the science? The science is dead against this!
Actually I heard, Dr Luke O'Neill, professor of Biochemistry in Trinity College, Dublin speak about this on the radio a few weeks before Christmas and he said at the time it was good science and has been used in the past, using different vacinnes between the first and and dose. Not sure where your getting that your information that science is against it. Here's one well respected scientist that disagrees with you, given a choice, I know who I would believe. "
I heard this too, but he was questioned about the use of two very different vaccines afterwards for the media they asked one being a modified chimp adenovirus that has been designed to work in humans and the Pfizer is a RNA messenger the two vaccines are worlds apart, how would they work ? He couldn't answer it, he said if they were similar then in theory yes but with no scientific backing and data we couldn't proceed with the notion.
Me personally think it's daft I look forward to the day I can have the vaccine but I want both to be the same. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. |
On New Year's Eve, the UK government issued guidance to NHS medics saying that if a person who has received their first jab goes back for their second but the same type is not available, or the first vaccine type is unknown, then it is "reasonable" to offer a dose of another vaccine.
"This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again," the guidance adds.
After questions were raised about the risks, Dr Mary Ramsay, head of immunisations at PHE, told Sky News that mixing is not recommended and should only happen on "rare occasions".
Seems to me that they agree with each other. |
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The official guidelines say: "If the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product to complete the schedule".
This isn't a policy to deliberately mix vaccines, but a contingency if the original vaccine isn't available.
I haven't seen any results, but there was a project announced at the beginning of December, to test different mixes of vaccines. There is some thinking that using two different vaccines "could" provide two complimentary immune reactions.
Cal |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. |
Se also added . . .
"There may be extremely rare occasions where the same vaccine is not available, or where it is not known what vaccine the patient received.
"Every effort should be made to give them the same vaccine, but where this is not possible it is better to give a second dose of another vaccine than not at all." |
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We should be led by scientific research evidence, not wishes, thoughts fancies and convenient bodges.
There hasn't yet been published peer reviewed evidence thats based on alternative vaccine types being given as starter and booster shots.
People are aware of the 95% efficacy from 1 type of 2 doses and I think it's reasonable that we have quantifued research results before this new alternative is attemoted. |
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"....
Bottom line is that its impossible to vaccinate at the rate people expect."
To meet the intended two million doses per week, each of the NHS trusts need to administer 5,300 per day... this is an average of about 150 per uk hospital. This sounds easily achievable at a rate of about 13 per hour. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke. |
A friend of mine (practice nurse) does flu vax's each year @ 100 per 4.5 period.
Do bear in mind that paperwork needs to be done too. You may be able to cattle farm younger people but you can't really push older folks to rush too quickly.
But first you have to have the Vax's. |
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By *host63Man
over a year ago
Bedfont Feltham |
As there is no evidence that there is inter interchangeably between the two different vaccines. I struggle to see how on earth this is viable. Just another example of the stupidity of the government |
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Seems a bit crazy. They're built differently but I suppose they both train the immune system. However just the other day, they said they have no idea if moving vaccines work be effective but they were going to do studies. Are we the study? |
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"Seems a bit crazy. They're built differently but I suppose they both train the immune system. However just the other day, they said they have no idea if moving vaccines work be effective but they were going to do studies. Are we the study? "
Switching |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seems a bit crazy. They're built differently but I suppose they both train the immune system. However just the other day, they said they have no idea if moving vaccines work be effective but they were going to do studies. Are we the study?
Switching"
would? |
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"....
Bottom line is that its impossible to vaccinate at the rate people expect.
To meet the intended two million doses per week, each of the NHS trusts need to administer 5,300 per day... this is an average of about 150 per uk hospital. This sounds easily achievable at a rate of about 13 per hour. "
Meanwhile.. back in the real world..
I know what should be happening but in reality the whole supply chain logistics wont work like that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That's not quite the whole story though is it?
You're missing the part that says "it will be allowed on rare occasions""
Let's put it this way. I'll will want to know what my first jab is...if the second one is not the same I'll not be having it.
I'm no scientist but I've bags of commonsense and this is bloody dangerous to even be thinking along these lines.. |
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By *extasy19Couple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
I'm no scientist."
You said it! You have also ignored that fact that it is SAGE that has supported the "rare circumstances" vaccine mixing and SAGE that has endorsed the 12 week gap. A gap which incidentally was first suggested by none other than Tony Blair. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I'm no scientist.
You said it! You have also ignored that fact that it is SAGE that has supported the "rare circumstances" vaccine mixing and SAGE that has endorsed the 12 week gap. A gap which incidentally was first suggested by none other than Tony Blair. "
So you will take a mixture? |
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The BMJ have stated the mix / match is not happening
The NYT have removed the article.
Vaccines maybe be phased over longer times but no mixing
The virus tech is not the same so it would not make sense. |
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"The BMJ have stated the mix / match is not happening
The NYT have removed the article.
Vaccines maybe be phased over longer times but no mixing
The virus tech is not the same so it would not make sense."
No concerns about (pfizer vaccine) 2 doses 3 weeks apart (evidence based) being replaced with 2 doses 12 weeks apart (not evidence based)?
Given there were many who laughed at anyone who suggested the covid vaccine roll out might be a bit too experimental to have them lining up to be in the first cohort...I can only say I feel sad for those who are in the first cohort. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The BMJ have stated the mix / match is not happening
The NYT have removed the article.
Vaccines maybe be phased over longer times but no mixing
The virus tech is not the same so it would not make sense."
Yes, it seems that the NYT misrepresented something only suggested as an approach for the most extreme of cases, where a punt would be better than nothing.
Also, there is no evidence either way (happy to be corrected). The human immune system is very complicated and we don’t understand it anywhere near completely yet. It may be that a mix and match approach may work (to what degree, who knows?). There’s definitely a study proposal (maybe underway) to mix the Oxford/AZ vaccine with the Russian Sputnik one (same vaccine tech). Nobody can say though that the two vaccines based on different technologies definitely won’t work, but that’s why we conduct studies.
What I find difficult to reconcile is that HMG is deviating from study-based evidence, upon which authorisations to use the vaccines were given, in a seemingly arbitrary manner, e.g. to increase the time between doses, but not allowing the half dose - full dose regimen that there is at least some evidence in support of greater effectiveness. |
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