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Sweden’s relaxed approach
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"Are there any people on here who still think that Sweden’s relaxed approach to the pandemic was the best option? "Their king doesn’t | |||
"Are there any people on here who still think that Sweden’s relaxed approach to the pandemic was the best option?
Their king doesn’t "And neither does their Prime Minister | |||
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"As someone living in the uk I’m not sure I’m in a position to criticise any other countries attempt at dealing with COVID. At one time everyone was praising how Germany dealt with it. Just today it’s been published that the number of scans on the nhs are down by 4.4 million. We won’t know for many years what the final impact both health and economic will be and which countries have dealt with it slightly better than others." Covid has had some effect in most countries around the globe. However, some countries have handled it better than others, resulting in covid having less effect on the economy and health of those countries that have handled it well. Unfortunately, your 'beloved' Sweden is among the countries who have handled it quite poorly and shambolically. | |||
"As someone living in the uk I’m not sure I’m in a position to criticise any other countries attempt at dealing with COVID. At one time everyone was praising how Germany dealt with it. Just today it’s been published that the number of scans on the nhs are down by 4.4 million. We won’t know for many years what the final impact both health and economic will be and which countries have dealt with it slightly better than others. Covid has had some effect in most countries around the globe. However, some countries have handled it better than others, resulting in covid having less effect on the economy and health of those countries that have handled it well. Unfortunately, your 'beloved' Sweden is among the countries who have handled it quite poorly and shambolically. " My beloved Sweden? | |||
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"As someone living in the uk I’m not sure I’m in a position to criticise any other countries attempt at dealing with COVID. At one time everyone was praising how Germany dealt with it. Just today it’s been published that the number of scans on the nhs are down by 4.4 million. We won’t know for many years what the final impact both health and economic will be and which countries have dealt with it slightly better than others. Covid has had some effect in most countries around the globe. However, some countries have handled it better than others, resulting in covid having less effect on the economy and health of those countries that have handled it well. Unfortunately, your 'beloved' Sweden is among the countries who have handled it quite poorly and shambolically. My beloved Sweden?"  | |||
"According to the News outlets Sweden's light touch approach is now being questioned very seriously both by its people and its science and health professionals. The rates are by far and away very much higher than its neighbours. Their COVID tsar was celebrated to almost pop-star levels early on - but then the people would wouldn't they - now not so much. The King and many others in Government are strongly critical of the past stance they took - but they would to too I guess - hindsight and all that. COVID doesn't give a flying fook about your policies, your politics, or you. It just infects wherever it can. " I suppose its too much to allow governments to be allowed learn and change strategies as things unfold. There's a lot of things happened in the last 12 months and I'd actually rather leaders were allowed to evolve strategies. From outside, their initial approach worked pretty well at the time and in that country. Seems a different approach maybe needed now. Not a big deal is it? | |||
"According to the News outlets Sweden's light touch approach is now being questioned very seriously both by its people and its science and health professionals. The rates are by far and away very much higher than its neighbours. Their COVID tsar was celebrated to almost pop-star levels early on - but then the people would wouldn't they - now not so much. The King and many others in Government are strongly critical of the past stance they took - but they would to too I guess - hindsight and all that. COVID doesn't give a flying fook about your policies, your politics, or you. It just infects wherever it can. I suppose its too much to allow governments to be allowed learn and change strategies as things unfold. There's a lot of things happened in the last 12 months and I'd actually rather leaders were allowed to evolve strategies. From outside, their initial approach worked pretty well at the time and in that country. Seems a different approach maybe needed now. Not a big deal is it? " "...their initial approach worked pretty well at the time..." ----------------------------- Their initial approach never worked pretty well. The approach has been poor from the start, and still a shambles. | |||
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"I take the point of this thread not to be a criticism of Sweden so much but of the anti-lockdown & conspiracy supporters who continually brought up Sweden as a shining example of liberty and commonsense." .. 
They're quiet today | |||
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"It's still a shining example of liberty where you can choose to what extent you want to expose yourself to risk." A shining example of how to kill lots more people than was needed. Sweden itself has accepted its approached was wrong. | |||
"As someone living in the uk I’m not sure I’m in a position to criticise any other countries attempt at dealing with COVID. At one time everyone was praising how Germany dealt with it. Just today it’s been published that the number of scans on the nhs are down by 4.4 million. We won’t know for many years what the final impact both health and economic will be and which countries have dealt with it slightly better than others." This ^^^^ it’s far too early to say. Our regular services, GP appointments etc have been devastated, care homes, t+t, Ppe procurement, Cheltenham etc etc are all scandals. But people are very naive if they think all other developed countries have been able to provide a full health service for other illnesses this year. Will be at least two years before we know the real “adjusted” figures for excess mortality rates across the world. | |||
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"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.." Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach " You better go convince them of that then | |||
"It's still a shining example of liberty where you can choose to what extent you want to expose yourself to risk." And what about the other people you then put at risk? Don't they matter? | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach " "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming  | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach " Evidence is demonstrating that it wasn’t the best approach. That of course is not to blame anyone, no one knew for certain which method was going to work best, but the Swedish approach did rely heavily on people taking the virus seriously and exercising caution, which did initially work. From June 2020 https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2376 Covid death toll the highest both in absolute and per capita terms in Scandinavian countries, the Swedish public is losing faith in the epidemiologist who was responsible for the herd immunity approach https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/long-a-holdout-from-covid-19-restrictions-sweden-ends-its-pandemic-experiment-11607261658 | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming "Is there any country in Europe that's not a failure? Once the government takes a decision and goes down a path, it is irreversible and speculating on 'what if' is pointless. And what seemingly works in one country may not work in another. Who knows, maybe Sweden might have had more excess deaths if they'd followed the UK? Or the UK have fewer if we'd followed Sweden? | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming
Is there any country in Europe that's not a failure? Once the government takes a decision and goes down a path, it is irreversible and speculating on 'what if' is pointless. And what seemingly works in one country may not work in another.
Who knows, maybe Sweden might have had more excess deaths if they'd followed the UK? Or the UK have fewer if we'd followed Sweden?""....Who knows, maybe Sweden might have had more excess deaths if they'd followed the UK? Or the UK have fewer if we'd followed Sweden?..." ---------------------------------- Comparing the UK to Sweden is an apples and Oranges comparison. Its like comparing the UK to New Zealand or Japan. If you compare Sweden's strategy to that of the other Nordic countries, you will understand why Sweden's strategy was and is a failure. | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming "They still have less deaths per million than the UK, spain, Italy and others. And no lock down Sounds like they made the right choice to me | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming
They still have less deaths per million than the UK, spain, Italy and others.
And no lock down
Sounds like they made the right choice to me"Good job you aren't in charge of Swedish policy then. It doesn't help pouring fuel on an already burning fire. | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming
Is there any country in Europe that's not a failure? Once the government takes a decision and goes down a path, it is irreversible and speculating on 'what if' is pointless. And what seemingly works in one country may not work in another.
Who knows, maybe Sweden might have had more excess deaths if they'd followed the UK? Or the UK have fewer if we'd followed Sweden?
"....Who knows, maybe Sweden might have had more excess deaths if they'd followed the UK? Or the UK have fewer if we'd followed Sweden?..."
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Comparing the UK to Sweden is an apples and Oranges comparison. Its like comparing the UK to New Zealand or Japan.
If you compare Sweden's strategy to that of the other Nordic countries, you will understand why Sweden's strategy was and is a failure."Good job the other nordic countries did what they did. They are probably going have to take swedish covid patients as they have just about run out of icu beds. | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming
They still have less deaths per million than the UK, spain, Italy and others.
And no lock down
Sounds like they made the right choice to me""...They still have less deaths per million than the UK, spain, Italy and others...." ------------------- Another oranges and apples comparisons. It is Ok to make comparisons between UK, Spain, Italy, as they have similar demographics. How about comparing Sweden to other Nordic / Scandinavian countries where the demographics are similar? Number of deaths: Norway = 404 Denmark= 992 Finland = 489 Sweden = 7893 ------------------- Total deaths in Norway, Denmark and Finland = 1885 Total Death in Sweden = 7893 : (More than 4 times the total of its 3 Neighbours.) | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming
They still have less deaths per million than the UK, spain, Italy and others.
And no lock down
Sounds like they made the right choice to me"Sweden has one of the highest health care spends in the world per capita. Its a massive country with virtually no one living there. Can you imagine the death toll in a country like the uk densely populated with a health spend and ICU capacity many times less than sweden. | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming
They still have less deaths per million than the UK, spain, Italy and others.
And no lock down
Sounds like they made the right choice to me
Sweden has one of the highest health care spends in the world per capita. Its a massive country with virtually no one living there. Can you imagine the death toll in a country like the uk densely populated with a health spend and ICU capacity many times less than sweden."Well prehaps we should have ploughed money into our health care spend instead of propping up the enconomy | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming
They still have less deaths per million than the UK, spain, Italy and others.
And no lock down
Sounds like they made the right choice to me
Sweden has one of the highest health care spends in the world per capita. Its a massive country with virtually no one living there. Can you imagine the death toll in a country like the uk densely populated with a health spend and ICU capacity many times less than sweden.
Well prehaps we should have ploughed money into our health care spend instead of propping up the enconomy"You are right we should have spent more on health service, not less in real terms like we have done for most of the last 10 years, but its not like a tap. Investing in the health service can take years. I.e re introducing bursuraries for nurses would take years to see a result same with training more doctors. | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach " Based upon what? | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach Based upon what?" Based on having lower death numbers than the UK, spain, Italy among others. Also based on Swedens economy being nearly 50% dependent on exports. The risk to their export economy due to Corona could have seen them in a sorry financial state had they locked down the local economy. The effects of lockdown have been devastating for so many but you probably don't see or feel them. It seems the majority of pro lockdown crew have not had major disruptions to their house hold income | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach Based upon what? Based on having lower death numbers than the UK, spain, Italy among others. Also based on Swedens economy being nearly 50% dependent on exports. The risk to their export economy due to Corona could have seen them in a sorry financial state had they locked down the local economy. The effects of lockdown have been devastating for so many but you probably don't see or feel them. It seems the majority of pro lockdown crew have not had major disruptions to their house hold income " Comparing them to us is completely irrelevant, the comparison if any has to be to their fellow Scandinavian neighbours who share a lot more similarities than we do.. It's a valid argument if you try and be object and don't assume others financial positions.. It's pretty hard to earn anything when you've pegged it.. So whilst we all have an opinion I think the facts as stated that they themselves now accept how they handled it was wrong is perhaps more likely to be the case .. Anything else is just could have, would have.. | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach Based upon what? Based on having lower death numbers than the UK, spain, Italy among others. Also based on Swedens economy being nearly 50% dependent on exports. The risk to their export economy due to Corona could have seen them in a sorry financial state had they locked down the local economy. The effects of lockdown have been devastating for so many but you probably don't see or feel them. It seems the majority of pro lockdown crew have not had major disruptions to their house hold income " I've had a significant hit to my income, I've seen work colleagues laid off. I still don't agree with Sweden's approach. You are also clearly failing to acknowledge the terrible figures for Sweden when compared with its other Nordic neighbors or the fact that it's own government and scientists are starting to state they got it wrong. You know, the people who are actually in possession of the best information to make an informed decision about their strategy. If they had got it so right with not locking down, don't you think they would be putting out a very different public message? | |||
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"Yes certain members of their government, their king and certain scientist say their strategy was wrong. They also have plenty still backing their approach. " There are plenty of people still banging on about "control" and "tracking chips" it doesn't mean they are right. I'm just thankfully that the Swedes are finally starting to see sense. Hopefully in time to minimise any further deaths. | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach Based upon what? Based on having lower death numbers than the UK, spain, Italy among others. Also based on Swedens economy being nearly 50% dependent on exports. The risk to their export economy due to Corona could have seen them in a sorry financial state had they locked down the local economy. The effects of lockdown have been devastating for so many but you probably don't see or feel them. It seems the majority of pro lockdown crew have not had major disruptions to their house hold income " Your scientific evidence is pretty poor. Sweden's combined exports of goods and services is 45.7% of GDP (2019 World Bank). However, with a strong public sector, strong fiscal policies and diversified exports based on tech, biotech and machinery they're less susceptible to longterm downtrends as evidenced during the bounce back from the global financial recession where Sweden recovered more quickly than most. The idea that people are in some sort of "pro-lockdown crew" as if this is some sort of social ideology is nonsense, it is having an impact on everyone. I caught Corona Virus in March and still struggle to get up a flight of stairs. I was fit (gym 2-3 times a week, swimming and running), healthy with no underlying clinical problems. My partner is an ICU nurse and took care of me at home, if she hadn't known what she was doing, I would have been hospitalised. As for not having major income disruptions, where's your evidence to that? | |||
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"Sweden failed to protect its residential care homes, as did the U.K. Approximately 50% of the Covid deaths in both Sweden and the U.K. occurred in the care sector. Lockdown, social distancing, different tiers are all wasted if a country can’t protect its vulnerable citizens. The majority of western countries have failed in that regard." Totally agree, and what's even more disappointing is the number of people who say, well I don't need to wear a mask, or do anything differently, because only old people in care homes are dying so I'm alright... | |||
"Sweden failed to protect its residential care homes, as did the U.K. Approximately 50% of the Covid deaths in both Sweden and the U.K. occurred in the care sector. Lockdown, social distancing, different tiers are all wasted if a country can’t protect its vulnerable citizens. The majority of western countries have failed in that regard." Sweden is the only nordic country that has failed. The rest had hard lockdowns with mainly closed borders. | |||
"Sweden failed to protect its residential care homes, as did the U.K. Approximately 50% of the Covid deaths in both Sweden and the U.K. occurred in the care sector. Lockdown, social distancing, different tiers are all wasted if a country can’t protect its vulnerable citizens. The majority of western countries have failed in that regard." Ok reduce the 50% care home deaths so it's around 400 in the community. It's still way higher then all its neighbour's but together. The no lockdown failed...come on just admit it... | |||
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"We won't know what works and what doesnt until a long way down the line. I'm glad I'm not in a position to be making these choices ... We are hardly a shining beacon. " We have done shite because we always started lockdown too late. But this is about not having the lockdown at all...to which plenty have voiced we should have had. It just shows lockdown are the only way to protect people and the health service. In my opinion | |||
"We won't know what works and what doesnt until a long way down the line. I'm glad I'm not in a position to be making these choices ... We are hardly a shining beacon. We have done shite because we always started lockdown too late. But this is about not having the lockdown at all...to which plenty have voiced we should have had. It just shows lockdown are the only way to protect people and the health service. In my opinion " Can you explain France Spain and Italy then. All three had very strict lockdowns. Yet all three have suffered with severe death figures. | |||
"Sweden failed to protect its residential care homes, as did the U.K. Approximately 50% of the Covid deaths in both Sweden and the U.K. occurred in the care sector. Lockdown, social distancing, different tiers are all wasted if a country can’t protect its vulnerable citizens. The majority of western countries have failed in that regard." Sadly true.. Would add that we do the same year on year with several groups in society without such things as this virus.. | |||
"We won't know what works and what doesnt until a long way down the line. I'm glad I'm not in a position to be making these choices ... We are hardly a shining beacon. We have done shite because we always started lockdown too late. But this is about not having the lockdown at all...to which plenty have voiced we should have had. It just shows lockdown are the only way to protect people and the health service. In my opinion Can you explain France Spain and Italy then. All three had very strict lockdowns. Yet all three have suffered with severe death figures. " Sweden is the only nordic country that has failed | |||
"Yes certain members of their government, their king and certain scientist say their strategy was wrong. They also have plenty still backing their approach. " Only those who are blind to the facts will still keep backing their approach. | |||
"We won't know what works and what doesnt until a long way down the line. I'm glad I'm not in a position to be making these choices ... We are hardly a shining beacon. We have done shite because we always started lockdown too late. But this is about not having the lockdown at all...to which plenty have voiced we should have had. It just shows lockdown are the only way to protect people and the health service. In my opinion Can you explain France Spain and Italy then. All three had very strict lockdowns. Yet all three have suffered with severe death figures. Sweden is the only nordic country that has failed" Swedish TV is great though.  | |||
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"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** " *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this.  | |||
"Are there any people on here who still think that Sweden’s relaxed approach to the pandemic was the best option? "hmm not sure how ours has benifeted us any better | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this. "so they didn’t ruin the economy from the get go and there is no scientific evidence to prove how many lives have been saved or lost due to ours or theirs approach to dealing with covid. The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system which is and will continue to kill people for other reasons other than covid, their children’s education has not been impacted as much, their unemployment has not been impacted as much as ours ( 700k jobs gone across the hospitality sector alone up to December ). | |||
"We won't know what works and what doesnt until a long way down the line. I'm glad I'm not in a position to be making these choices ... We are hardly a shining beacon. We have done shite because we always started lockdown too late. But this is about not having the lockdown at all...to which plenty have voiced we should have had. It just shows lockdown are the only way to protect people and the health service. In my opinion Can you explain France Spain and Italy then. All three had very strict lockdowns. Yet all three have suffered with severe death figures. If you want to look at statistics correctly lockdowns are actually to blame for the sharp rise in increases of infections. Our own scientific advisors have even said lockdown during summer months was not necessarily the correct thing to do. " | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this. so they didn’t ruin the economy from the get go and there is no scientific evidence to prove how many lives have been saved or lost due to ours or theirs approach to dealing with covid. The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system which is and will continue to kill people for other reasons other than covid, their children’s education has not been impacted as much, their unemployment has not been impacted as much as ours ( 700k jobs gone across the hospitality sector alone up to December ). "I'm not disagreeing. Im saying from the outside... It looks like they have learned and adapted how they are responding and that their generally more compliant attitude to community and civic duty allows adoption of new measure more succesfully. In our country we appear to be very binary, very dogmatic with little appetite or understanding of nuance. We have the... "wear a fucking mask" approach and the "I'm not doing what they want... I'm not being controlled" brigade and doesn't seem much in the middle. | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this. so they didn’t ruin the economy from the get go and there is no scientific evidence to prove how many lives have been saved or lost due to ours or theirs approach to dealing with covid. The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system which is and will continue to kill people for other reasons other than covid, their children’s education has not been impacted as much, their unemployment has not been impacted as much as ours ( 700k jobs gone across the hospitality sector alone up to December ).
I'm not disagreeing. Im saying from the outside... It looks like they have learned and adapted how they are responding and that their generally more compliant attitude to community and civic duty allows adoption of new measure more succesfully.
In our country we appear to be very binary, very dogmatic with little appetite or understanding of nuance. We have the... "wear a fucking mask" approach and the "I'm not doing what they want... I'm not being controlled" brigade and doesn't seem much in the middle. "I agree in some ways it would be better to rely on civic to observe mask wearing and social distancing, the uk was pretty good to start with but fatigue set in hence why people behave worse and worse as time goes by. Sweden can get away initially with lighter measures as it not very densely populated and has the one of the best funded health services in the world. Neither of those are even remotely true of the uk. The Swedish economy has been hit harder by covid than norway or finland. Despite them having harsh lockdowns. They have virtually no deaths or infections compared to Sweden. | |||
"I take the point of this thread not to be a criticism of Sweden so much but of the anti-lockdown & conspiracy supporters who continually brought up Sweden as a shining example of liberty and commonsense." Correct, | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty. " "....Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures...." ------------------------- And why do you think they are now taking as you put it: ' a series of stricter measures' ???? Because the measures they had taken from Spring to December have been a FAILURE. Yet you still have have people praising Sweden's strategy; even when the Swedish leaders, scientist, epidemiologist etc have all realised that their previous strategy was a failure and never worked as intended. | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this. "Or maybe they have such a blinkered view they don’t see the bigger picture..... It’s a bit like nimby-ism in a way, all for it until it affects them and then they want to be treated differently... | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this. so they didn’t ruin the economy from the get go and there is no scientific evidence to prove how many lives have been saved or lost due to ours or theirs approach to dealing with covid. The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system which is and will continue to kill people for other reasons other than covid, their children’s education has not been impacted as much, their unemployment has not been impacted as much as ours ( 700k jobs gone across the hospitality sector alone up to December ). "--------------------------- Firstly comparing Sweden to the UK is an apples and oranges comparison. You might as well compare France to South Africa, or Italy to Japan, or the USA to Madagascar. When making comparison, best to do a like-for-like comparison by comparing countries with similar demographics. So Sweden is best compared with its Nordic / Scandinavian neighbours : Finland, Norway & Denmark. I'll comment on a few things you say. You say:'...so they (Sweden) didn’t ruin the economy...' But that's not true. Covid saw Sweden’s economy shrink 8.6% in April-to-June. Their neighbours who locked down had less impact to their economy Norway = 7.1% Denmark =7.4% Finland = 3.2% -------------------------------- You also say:'..The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system...' Sweden is currently running out of ICU beds as a result of covid and may have to rely on its neighbours (who locked down) to help them (Sweden) with healthcare. --------------------------------- You also say: ' their unemployment has not been impacted' Covid saw Sweden’s unemployment rise to 9% as a result of Covid. Again higher than their neighbours who locked down. | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty. "....Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures...." ------------------------- And why do you think they are now taking as you put it: ' a series of stricter measures' ???? Because the measures they had taken from Spring to December have been a FAILURE. Yet you still have have people praising Sweden's strategy; even when the Swedish leaders, scientist, epidemiologist etc have all realised that their previous strategy was a failure and never worked as intended." I'm praising their ability... And when I say "they" I'm talking population and leadership to work together, to show community responsibility and to adjust measures and adapt policies. I'm not debating uk v Sweden or "what Sweden did was wrong 9 months ago"... Just saying its OK to admit what you're currently doing is wrong and so you need to make changes and then people get on with it. Safe in the knowledge that they can trust their communities to do the right things and their leaders to change policies as the pandemic evolves. | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty. "....Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures...." ------------------------- And why do you think they are now taking as you put it: ' a series of stricter measures' ???? Because the measures they had taken from Spring to December have been a FAILURE. Yet you still have have people praising Sweden's strategy; even when the Swedish leaders, scientist, epidemiologist etc have all realised that their previous strategy was a failure and never worked as intended. I'm praising their ability... And when I say "they" I'm talking population and leadership to work together, to show community responsibility and to adjust measures and adapt policies. I'm not debating uk v Sweden or "what Sweden did was wrong 9 months ago"... Just saying its OK to admit what you're currently doing is wrong and so you need to make changes and then people get on with it. Safe in the knowledge that they can trust their communities to do the right things and their leaders to change policies as the pandemic evolves. " Now in this country (UK), we have less civic duty, more selfishness, dreadful leadership, even worse media, a cohort calling for lockdown and then when we try it, we argue about it, and a cohort arguing for no lockdown and when we dont lockdown we argue about it. We have people saying follow the science and people saying follow the economy. Very little cohesion which isn't necessarily unexpected in the global reality right now. Strong leadership is required and with a people who see more than their own needs. | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this. so they didn’t ruin the economy from the get go and there is no scientific evidence to prove how many lives have been saved or lost due to ours or theirs approach to dealing with covid. The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system which is and will continue to kill people for other reasons other than covid, their children’s education has not been impacted as much, their unemployment has not been impacted as much as ours ( 700k jobs gone across the hospitality sector alone up to December ).
---------------------------
Firstly comparing Sweden to the UK is an apples and oranges comparison. You might as well compare France to South Africa, or Italy to Japan, or the USA to Madagascar.
When making comparison, best to do a like-for-like comparison by comparing countries with similar demographics.
So Sweden is best compared with its Nordic / Scandinavian neighbours : Finland, Norway & Denmark.
I'll comment on a few things you say.
You say:'...so they (Sweden) didn’t ruin the economy...'
But that's not true.
Covid saw Sweden’s economy shrink 8.6% in April-to-June.
Their neighbours who locked down had less impact to their economy
Norway = 7.1%
Denmark =7.4%
Finland = 3.2%
--------------------------------
You also say:'..The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system...'
Sweden is currently running out of ICU beds as a result of covid and may have to rely on its neighbours (who locked down) to help them (Sweden) with healthcare.
---------------------------------
You also say: ' their unemployment has not been impacted'
Covid saw Sweden’s unemployment rise to 9% as a result of Covid. Again higher than their neighbours who locked down.
"No western government has handled this well but just out of interest apart from geography what are the similar demographics between Sweden and its neighbours. Sweden population = 10 million Denmark population = 5 million Norway population = 5 million Finland population = 5 million. More importantly with relation to Covid Sweden is the only country were the population has grown. That is due to it being a country of immigration since 2009 whereas the other Nordic countries have been countries of emigration in the same period. Of Sweden’s 10.3 million population 2.6 million are immigrants so Sweden has a larger bame community. With regards to the other risk factor the elderly demographics are also very different. In Norway in the 65-79 age group 90% lives in their own homes. In Sweden it is 68% Finland in the 75+ group 90% live in their own homes. In the 80+ group Norway = 78% home owners whereas Sweden’s drops to 37%. So as you say it’s pointless comparing any countries. The only country that matters is the one you’re living in and more importantly the measures you take. The one thing I think the other Nordic countries did compared to Sweden was close their borders. Sweden allowed its citizens to go skiing in the likes of northern Italy. I was listening to a Swedish virologist who was complaining that not only did they not close the borders but also they did not tell the travelers to isolate when they returned from the hotspots. That said I was in northern Italy in February and we also were not told to isolate so hindsight is a wonderful thing. | |||
"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this. so they didn’t ruin the economy from the get go and there is no scientific evidence to prove how many lives have been saved or lost due to ours or theirs approach to dealing with covid. The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system which is and will continue to kill people for other reasons other than covid, their children’s education has not been impacted as much, their unemployment has not been impacted as much as ours ( 700k jobs gone across the hospitality sector alone up to December ).
---------------------------
Firstly comparing Sweden to the UK is an apples and oranges comparison. You might as well compare France to South Africa, or Italy to Japan, or the USA to Madagascar.
When making comparison, best to do a like-for-like comparison by comparing countries with similar demographics.
So Sweden is best compared with its Nordic / Scandinavian neighbours : Finland, Norway & Denmark.
I'll comment on a few things you say.
You say:'...so they (Sweden) didn’t ruin the economy...'
But that's not true.
Covid saw Sweden’s economy shrink 8.6% in April-to-June.
Their neighbours who locked down had less impact to their economy
Norway = 7.1%
Denmark =7.4%
Finland = 3.2%
--------------------------------
You also say:'..The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system...'
Sweden is currently running out of ICU beds as a result of covid and may have to rely on its neighbours (who locked down) to help them (Sweden) with healthcare.
---------------------------------
You also say: ' their unemployment has not been impacted'
Covid saw Sweden’s unemployment rise to 9% as a result of Covid. Again higher than their neighbours who locked down.
No western government has handled this well but just out of interest apart from geography what are the similar demographics between Sweden and its neighbours.
Sweden population = 10 million
Denmark population = 5 million
Norway population = 5 million
Finland population = 5 million.
More importantly with relation to Covid Sweden is the only country were the population has grown. That is due to it being a country of immigration since 2009 whereas the other Nordic countries have been countries of emigration in the same period. Of Sweden’s 10.3 million population 2.6 million are immigrants so Sweden has a larger bame community.
With regards to the other risk factor the elderly demographics are also very different.
In Norway in the 65-79 age group 90% lives in their own homes.
In Sweden it is 68%
Finland in the 75+ group 90% live in their own homes.
In the 80+ group Norway = 78% home owners whereas Sweden’s drops to 37%.
So as you say it’s pointless comparing any countries. The only country that matters is the one you’re living in and more importantly the measures you take.
The one thing I think the other Nordic countries did compared to Sweden was close their borders. Sweden allowed its citizens to go skiing in the likes of northern Italy. I was listening to a Swedish virologist who was complaining that not only did they not close the borders but also they did not tell the travelers to isolate when they returned from the hotspots.
That said I was in northern Italy in February and we also were not told to isolate so hindsight is a wonderful thing.
""...So as you say it’s pointless comparing any countries..." ------------------------------------ Firstly I never made the statement you quoted above. I said it is pointless comparing apples with oranges i.e comparing two countries with completely different demographics. You can compare countries with similar demographics, and it is alright to do so. You can't compare an apple with an orange because they are two different types of fruit, but you can compare an orange with a lemon - as they are both citrus fruits. Saying you cannot compare any country with another is totally flawed. No two countries are identical but....... two countries can bear ‘similarities’ with each other which can be used to make comparisons. For example you can compare Mediterranean countries with each other, South East Asian countries with each other, Nordic countries with each other etc. All these examples I’ve given above highlight some ‘commonality’ which can be used to make comparisons. This explains why during the press conferences held in Spring, charts were used to compare the UK with countries with countries that have similar demographics to the UK i.e France, Germany etc. The charts did not include any Nordic country, because it does not make any sense to compare the UK with any Nordic country like Sweden. Sweden can be compared with its Nordic neighbours. Nordic countries share many similarities. The similarities between Sweden and its neighbours go beyond just population size. Nordic countries have similarities in way of life, history, religion, social structure, culture, tradition , lifestyle, their adherence to follow rules etc. Sweden is by far similar to Norway and Finland in respect of what I said above compared to any other country outside the Nordic region. And it is for that reason it is justified to compare Sweden with Norway and Finland rather than comparing Sweden to the UK. You also claim that "No western government has handled this well" I disagree. Norway and Finland have handled it well. The only Nordic country that has failed woefully in its handling of this pandemic is Sweden. You seem to be in denial of that fact, even though the Swedish leaders, scientist, epidemiologist etc have all realised that their strategy was a failure and never worked as intended. | |||
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"Easy to sit back and criticise. If it had turned out ok, many would complain we should have done the same. Bottom line is no one has the answer yet. " "...If it had turned out ok, many would complain we should have done the same..." ----------------------- Many were saying the UK should have followed Sweden's strategy at the beginning of the pandemic. Bottom line is: it did not turn out OK for Sweden. The purpose of this thread is not to criticise Sweden; but more to point out why Sweden's approach is not one the UK should follow. | |||
"Easy to sit back and criticise. If it had turned out ok, many would complain we should have done the same. Bottom line is no one has the answer yet. "...If it had turned out ok, many would complain we should have done the same..." ----------------------- Many were saying the UK should have followed Sweden's strategy at the beginning of the pandemic. Bottom line is: it did not turn out OK for Sweden. The purpose of this thread is not to criticise Sweden; but more to point out why Sweden's approach is not one the UK should follow. " So are you saying if Sweden had of lockdown in March the death toll would have been considerably lower? | |||
"Easy to sit back and criticise. If it had turned out ok, many would complain we should have done the same. Bottom line is no one has the answer yet. "...If it had turned out ok, many would complain we should have done the same..." ----------------------- Many were saying the UK should have followed Sweden's strategy at the beginning of the pandemic. Bottom line is: it did not turn out OK for Sweden. The purpose of this thread is not to criticise Sweden; but more to point out why Sweden's approach is not one the UK should follow. So are you saying if Sweden had of lockdown in March the death toll would have been considerably lower?" Indeed yes , a mistake that has cost lives | |||
"Easy to sit back and criticise. If it had turned out ok, many would complain we should have done the same. Bottom line is no one has the answer yet. "...If it had turned out ok, many would complain we should have done the same..." ----------------------- Many were saying the UK should have followed Sweden's strategy at the beginning of the pandemic. Bottom line is: it did not turn out OK for Sweden. The purpose of this thread is not to criticise Sweden; but more to point out why Sweden's approach is not one the UK should follow. So are you saying if Sweden had of lockdown in March the death toll would have been considerably lower?" "...So are you saying if Sweden had of lockdown in March the death toll would have been considerably lower?..." ------------------------------------ I will give you some figures and let you answer that question yourself. Sweden's Neighbours Locked Down in Spring: Denmark, Norway and Finland. The Result:- Number of deaths: Norway = 404 Denmark= 992 Finland = 489 Sweden = 7893 ------------------- Total deaths in Norway, Denmark and Finland = 1885 Total Death in Sweden = 7893 : (Sweden's deaths is 4 times the total deaths of its 3 Neighbours.) | |||
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"On Thursday, Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf said the Scandinavian nation "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus outbreak. The monarch made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family. Instead of relying on legal sanctions, Sweden appeals to citizens' sense of responsibility and civic duty, and issues only recommendations. There are no sanctions if they are ignored. The past is gone and can't be changed. Sweden are now taking a series of stricter measures including curfew on alcohol sales, curfew on hospitality, reducing social group sizes from 8 to 4 and so on. Similar to other nations really. They've learned and adapted. It's not a crime. ***What is interesting is the comments about responsibility and civic duty.*** *** 2020 has shown exactly what many Brits think of this. so they didn’t ruin the economy from the get go and there is no scientific evidence to prove how many lives have been saved or lost due to ours or theirs approach to dealing with covid. The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system which is and will continue to kill people for other reasons other than covid, their children’s education has not been impacted as much, their unemployment has not been impacted as much as ours ( 700k jobs gone across the hospitality sector alone up to December ).
---------------------------
Firstly comparing Sweden to the UK is an apples and oranges comparison. You might as well compare France to South Africa, or Italy to Japan, or the USA to Madagascar.
When making comparison, best to do a like-for-like comparison by comparing countries with similar demographics.
So Sweden is best compared with its Nordic / Scandinavian neighbours : Finland, Norway & Denmark.
I'll comment on a few things you say.
You say:'...so they (Sweden) didn’t ruin the economy...'
But that's not true.
Covid saw Sweden’s economy shrink 8.6% in April-to-June.
Their neighbours who locked down had less impact to their economy
Norway = 7.1%
Denmark =7.4%
Finland = 3.2%
--------------------------------
You also say:'..The facts that are there though is that the currently do not have the same problems as us in relation to back log within their care system...'
Sweden is currently running out of ICU beds as a result of covid and may have to rely on its neighbours (who locked down) to help them (Sweden) with healthcare.
---------------------------------
You also say: ' their unemployment has not been impacted'
Covid saw Sweden’s unemployment rise to 9% as a result of Covid. Again higher than their neighbours who locked down.
No western government has handled this well but just out of interest apart from geography what are the similar demographics between Sweden and its neighbours.
Sweden population = 10 million
Denmark population = 5 million
Norway population = 5 million
Finland population = 5 million.
More importantly with relation to Covid Sweden is the only country were the population has grown. That is due to it being a country of immigration since 2009 whereas the other Nordic countries have been countries of emigration in the same period. Of Sweden’s 10.3 million population 2.6 million are immigrants so Sweden has a larger bame community.
With regards to the other risk factor the elderly demographics are also very different.
In Norway in the 65-79 age group 90% lives in their own homes.
In Sweden it is 68%
Finland in the 75+ group 90% live in their own homes.
In the 80+ group Norway = 78% home owners whereas Sweden’s drops to 37%.
So as you say it’s pointless comparing any countries. The only country that matters is the one you’re living in and more importantly the measures you take.
The one thing I think the other Nordic countries did compared to Sweden was close their borders. Sweden allowed its citizens to go skiing in the likes of northern Italy. I was listening to a Swedish virologist who was complaining that not only did they not close the borders but also they did not tell the travelers to isolate when they returned from the hotspots.
That said I was in northern Italy in February and we also were not told to isolate so hindsight is a wonderful thing.
"...So as you say it’s pointless comparing any countries..."
------------------------------------
Firstly I never made the statement you quoted above.
I said it is pointless comparing apples with oranges i.e comparing two countries with completely different demographics.
You can compare countries with similar demographics, and it is alright to do so.
You can't compare an apple with an orange because they are two different types of fruit, but you can compare an orange with a lemon - as they are both citrus fruits.
Saying you cannot compare any country with another is totally flawed.
No two countries are identical but....... two countries can bear ‘similarities’ with each other which can be used to make comparisons.
For example you can compare Mediterranean countries with each other, South East Asian countries with each other, Nordic countries with each other etc.
All these examples I’ve given above highlight some ‘commonality’ which can be used to make comparisons.
This explains why during the press conferences held in Spring, charts were used to compare the UK with countries with countries that have similar demographics to the UK i.e France, Germany etc.
The charts did not include any Nordic country, because it does not make any sense to compare the UK with any Nordic country like Sweden.
Sweden can be compared with its Nordic neighbours. Nordic countries share many similarities. The similarities between Sweden and its neighbours go beyond just population size. Nordic countries have similarities in way of life, history, religion, social structure, culture, tradition , lifestyle, their adherence to follow rules etc.
Sweden is by far similar to Norway and Finland in respect of what I said above compared to any other country outside the Nordic region. And it is for that reason it is justified to compare Sweden with Norway and Finland rather than comparing Sweden to the UK.
You also claim that "No western government has handled this well"
I disagree. Norway and Finland have handled it well.
The only Nordic country that has failed woefully in its handling of this pandemic is Sweden.
You seem to be in denial of that fact, even though the Swedish leaders, scientist, epidemiologist etc have all realised that their strategy was a failure and never worked as intended."You could have acknowledged of challenged the different demographics of the Nordic countries instead you produced a tin of fruit cocktail
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"As someone living in the uk I’m not sure I’m in a position to criticise any other countries attempt at dealing with COVID. At one time everyone was praising how Germany dealt with it. Just today it’s been published that the number of scans on the nhs are down by 4.4 million. We won’t know for many years what the final impact both health and economic will be and which countries have dealt with it slightly better than others." Instead of criticising, can analyse how some counties got it right. Look at New Zealand they stopped it. They are reporting a few cases recently, but they are dealing with it. On a smaller scale, the Isle of Man, they are irtually covid free and things have returned to normal. | |||
"As someone living in the uk I’m not sure I’m in a position to criticise any other countries attempt at dealing with COVID. At one time everyone was praising how Germany dealt with it. Just today it’s been published that the number of scans on the nhs are down by 4.4 million. We won’t know for many years what the final impact both health and economic will be and which countries have dealt with it slightly better than others. Instead of criticising, can analyse how some counties got it right. Look at New Zealand they stopped it. They are reporting a few cases recently, but they are dealing with it. On a smaller scale, the Isle of Man, they are irtually covid free and things have returned to normal." Iom lock people up for 4 weeks for breaching isolation. | |||
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"Are there any people on here who still think that Sweden’s relaxed approach to the pandemic was the best option? "I think the biggest support for it comes from the highly regarded scientific community of fabswingers | |||
"From today, sweden will relax its restrictions even more and to stop most of it, like its neighbours denmark did, also norways view on covid is interesting, it will be interesting to see how it goes "Do you think the people in the UK are ready for something similar? They are currently fight over petrol. | |||
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"From today, sweden will relax its restrictions even more and to stop most of it, like its neighbours denmark did, also norways view on covid is interesting, it will be interesting to see how it goes
Do you think the people in the UK are ready for something similar? They are currently fight over petrol."Yes. I think they are that too, it should be business as usual | |||
"From today, sweden will relax its restrictions even more and to stop most of it, like its neighbours denmark did, also norways view on covid is interesting, it will be interesting to see how it goes
Do you think the people in the UK are ready for something similar? They are currently fight over petrol.Yes. I think they are that too, it should be business as usual "The scandinavian countries have declared that there arent an pandemic, so how should other countries do? Should it be assessed country by country? | |||
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"From today, sweden will relax its restrictions even more and to stop most of it, like its neighbours denmark did, also norways view on covid is interesting, it will be interesting to see how it goes
Do you think the people in the UK are ready for something similar? They are currently fight over petrol.Yes. I think they are that too, it should be business as usual The scandinavian countries have declared that there arent an pandemic, so how should other countries do? Should it be assessed country by country? "What do you think shag? | |||
"From today, sweden will relax its restrictions even more and to stop most of it, like its neighbours denmark did, also norways view on covid is interesting, it will be interesting to see how it goes
Do you think the people in the UK are ready for something similar? They are currently fight over petrol.Yes. I think they are that too, it should be business as usual The scandinavian countries have declared that there arent an pandemic, so how should other countries do? Should it be assessed country by country? "Maybe they have just misunderstood the word 'pan' | |||
"As someone living in the uk I’m not sure I’m in a position to criticise any other countries attempt at dealing with COVID. At one time everyone was praising how Germany dealt with it. Just today it’s been published that the number of scans on the nhs are down by 4.4 million. We won’t know for many years what the final impact both health and economic will be and which countries have dealt with it slightly better than others. Instead of criticising, can analyse how some counties got it right. Look at New Zealand they stopped it. They are reporting a few cases recently, but they are dealing with it. On a smaller scale, the Isle of Man, they are irtually covid free and things have returned to normal." There are good and poorer approaches around the world. Germany did do well, better than the UK initially and I think still better overall. There's always context though, for each situation. The Swedish had expertise of respect for authority, which helped to suppress the virus initially, whilst just local measures were introduced. From the situation today, we each have to work out how to deal with sustaining low infection levels, whilst reducing the parallel problems that we have that need that virus suppression, such as health waiting list reductions, improving the economic stability etc. | |||
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"The problem is that attitudes to Covid Response are a bit like attitudes to Brexit. People start off with a fixed view for whatever reason and then look out for tiny snippets of data that support their viewpoint, which five minutes later are superceded by other snippets of data that say the opposite. It's hard to compare countries. There are different cultural aspects, the way people interact with each other, population density, respect for authority, quality of healthcare. Even in countries like the US where States have had very different responses to Covid there will be local differences which undermine any comparison. Different states and countries seem to do "better" or "worse" at different times. There are pluses and minuses to every type of response. The UK has locked down a lot but it has had a devastating impact on the economy and public finances. And we are only just now, with excess deaths from heart disease etc running high, starting to see the negative health impacts of the lockdown." | |||
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"Was chatting with a friend last night and decided that Britain is doing no better or worse than anyome else but winning with the vaccine roll out. " 150 k dead don't agree. | |||
"From today, sweden will relax its restrictions even more and to stop most of it, like its neighbours denmark did, also norways view on covid is interesting, it will be interesting to see how it goes
Do you think the people in the UK are ready for something similar? They are currently fight over petrol.Yes. I think they are that too, it should be business as usual The scandinavian countries have declared that there arent an pandemic, so how should other countries do? Should it be assessed country by country?
What do you think shag? "I agree with them that the pandemic is over and that countries should relax their restrictions and return to business as usual. | |||
"When we have people on buses taking off their masks to sneeze we will never match the civilised countries. " Aww lovely of them to share though... Presumably they wiped their hand on the seat after... Can't understand why infections are going up though. | |||
"Funny enough the Swedish fans have been a bit quiet of late.. Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach "...Nope, I'm still happy to say they took the best approach..." ------------------------------- Even though the leaders, scientist and epidemiologist in Sweden claim their strategy was and is a failure. But somehow you assume you know better than them. Some people find comfort in a fantasy world. Keep Dreaming "So why was it ok for you to know better than there leaders and epidemiologists at the start, but not ok for somebody else, now?? | |||
