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Over 65's are the most deaths
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"Of the 58,645 Covid deaths 52,466 are 65 or over. (Office for National statistics).
Time to start thinking differently?"
No, there are still over 6000 who are under 65 and are you suggesting that once you reach the age of 65 that you should not receive treatment?
And then there are those that are unwell of all ages...
My mum is 72, she had a mild cough and a temperature for a day.
I'm much younger, I am still unwell and in a lot of pain almost 5 weeks after my first symptoms.
It isn't the short term deaths that is the problem, it's the long term effects that will be the covid legacy for many years to come.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Of the 58,645 Covid deaths 52,466 are 65 or over. (Office for National statistics).
Time to start thinking differently?"
Start thinking differently in what way? |
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You've made a vague question after posting some statistics. It would be helpful to know what you may be proposing that's different to the many 'alternative' views that get posted most days.
My different proposals are to target people as quickly as possible after their infection starts. They will be the source of all new problems. This means fast testing and results as well as near-immediate contact tracing. They should be paid as close to full income level as possible to ensure they isolate.
Targeting the source of potential new cascades of infection stops it spreading to all age groups, including more of the over 65s who have been ravaged by this.
Death results are 1 aspect. Many thousands have ongoing health impairments and disabilities. Evidence shows organ damage in many young and old survivors - heart, kidneys, liver and brains disabled from the infection. They are potentially going to need health care support for life. This means huge investments in health and social care services. They will all, we'd hope, become over and over 65 at some point but thousands of younger people may seemingly not get off too badly at first but that is a mirage. You have to look below the surface for the complex reality, of something that we're only just starting to understand. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Of the 58,645 Covid deaths 52,466 are 65 or over. (Office for National statistics).
Time to start thinking differently?
Oh goodie..yet another one."
Credit where it's due. The dedication is laudable but eye wateringly misplaced. The thinking is straight out of logans run. Scientologists have nothing on these guys |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Of the 58,645 Covid deaths 52,466 are 65 or over. (Office for National statistics).
Time to start thinking differently?
Oh goodie..yet another one."
I was thinking the same. Can't wait for the OP's solution.
So c'mon OP, spit it out and share with the room |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"Of the 58,645 Covid deaths 52,466 are 65 or over. (Office for National statistics).
Time to start thinking differently?"
Interesting, So do we lock up all the over 65’s who by & large only go out when they need to, don’t spend their time in gyms pubs, schools etc but then probably catch it from those that do in their infrequent interactions.
Or shall we let them out & lock up everyone else for being inconsiderate & uncaring of the elders predicament arseholes?
Tough one
S |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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First 11 replies show that trying to think differently is probably not possible going by the knee jerk reaction.
Lockdown and release followed by lockdown and release is clearly not sustainable longterm.
The hope is the vaccine works and the over 65's and the vunerable get it first but short term something better is needed with Christmas looming otherwise its going to be mayhem from December 2nd resulting in another lockdown come early next year.
I don't have the answers am just wondering if anyone has alternative suggestions rather than lockdown then release. |
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" if anyone has alternative suggestions rather than lockdown then release."
Do you seriously think anyone on a swinger site is going to come up with a magic solution that has evaded the world's greatest strategic planners.
Has any other country in the world come up with an alternative.
10/10 for trying but killing the over 65s or imprisonment probably isn't going to work and has been literally done to death for months. Even if you did kill everyone over 65 then do you have an annual cull ?
There's an old saying, short term pain for long term gain
Maybe more though should be put into planning for the next pandemic ?
The vaccine IMHO is the only short term hope. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" if anyone has alternative suggestions rather than lockdown then release.
Do you seriously think anyone on a swinger site is going to come up with a magic solution that has evaded the world's greatest strategic planners.
Has any other country in the world come up with an alternative.
10/10 for trying but killing the over 65s or imprisonment probably isn't going to work and has been literally done to death for months. Even if you did kill everyone over 65 then do you have an annual cull ?
There's an old saying, short term pain for long term gain
Maybe more though should be put into planning for the next pandemic ?
The vaccine IMHO is the only short term hope."
The government would love killing over 65s,thats the pension deficit sorted |
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" if anyone has alternative suggestions rather than lockdown then release.
Do you seriously think anyone on a swinger site is going to come up with a magic solution that has evaded the world's greatest strategic planners.
Has any other country in the world come up with an alternative.
10/10 for trying but killing the over 65s or imprisonment probably isn't going to work and has been literally done to death for months. Even if you did kill everyone over 65 then do you have an annual cull ?
There's an old saying, short term pain for long term gain
Maybe more though should be put into planning for the next pandemic ?
The vaccine IMHO is the only short term hope.
The government would love killing over 65s,thats the pension deficit sorted"
And their core demographic tbf |
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"Of the 58,645 Covid deaths 52,466 are 65 or over. (Office for National statistics).
Time to start thinking differently?"
Why think differently? I don't think the age of Covid deaths has changed in any way and also that seems totally irrelevant if it had.  |
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"First 11 replies show that trying to think differently is probably not possible going by the knee jerk reaction.
Lockdown and release followed by lockdown and release is clearly not sustainable longterm.
The hope is the vaccine works and the over 65's and the vunerable get it first but short term something better is needed with Christmas looming otherwise its going to be mayhem from December 2nd resulting in another lockdown come early next year.
I don't have the answers am just wondering if anyone has alternative suggestions rather than lockdown then release."
No other option is there atm until.the vaccine.
No knee jerking as it's been a year trying to find a solution with no success |
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So putting Adolfs Final Solution option down as a bit of a bad option, the only solution is to test, test and test..
Isolate those who have the virus and track down those who may have been in contact with them..
Well, if you like that idea, good news, the government have almost implemented it and got it working at a reasonable level.
Yes it has taken longer than expected or promised to get a new and complex system in place and iron out the bugs, while all the time getting a kicking off the public, the media and an opposition who would have faired no better at implementing any of it..
All we need to do is comply with the rules, stop being total bell ends help get the virus to a manageable level.
There you go, job done. |
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"Of the 58,645 Covid deaths 52,466 are 65 or over. (Office for National statistics).
Time to start thinking differently?"
Yes, you need to start thinking differently. After 8 months you still think it's all about the deaths...
The NHS would have been completely overwhelmed if there had been no lockdown. That would have meant that any young healthy person who suddenly needed hospital treatment might not have been able to get it and subsequently die. A car crash victim for example. I am sure you would think differently if you or someone close to you wasn't able to get treatment because the beds were all full of people with covid...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So putting Adolfs Final Solution option down as a bit of a bad option, the only solution is to test, test and test..
Isolate those who have the virus and track down those who may have been in contact with them..
Well, if you like that idea, good news, the government have almost implemented it and got it working at a reasonable level.
Yes it has taken longer than expected or promised to get a new and complex system in place and iron out the bugs, while all the time getting a kicking off the public, the media and an opposition who would have faired no better at implementing any of it..
All we need to do is comply with the rules, stop being total bell ends help get the virus to a manageable level.
There you go, job done."
I would agree if the PCR test actually told you anything of value, it says found something.. evidence of a virus (any virus)
It can’t tell you if this is evidence of current infection, old infection or what type of virus, all facts
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"So putting Adolfs Final Solution option down as a bit of a bad option, the only solution is to test, test and test..
Isolate those who have the virus and track down those who may have been in contact with them..
Well, if you like that idea, good news, the government have almost implemented it and got it working at a reasonable level.
Yes it has taken longer than expected or promised to get a new and complex system in place and iron out the bugs, while all the time getting a kicking off the public, the media and an opposition who would have faired no better at implementing any of it..
All we need to do is comply with the rules, stop being total bell ends help get the virus to a manageable level.
There you go, job done.
I would agree if the PCR test actually told you anything of value, it says found something.. evidence of a virus (any virus)
It can’t tell you if this is evidence of current infection, old infection or what type of virus, all facts
"
Most of that isn't true. The PCR test for covid 19 is specific to covid 19. An old infection almost certainly wouldn't be detected by the PCR test. One of the weaknesses of PCR test is it quite often misses very recent infections. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So putting Adolfs Final Solution option down as a bit of a bad option, the only solution is to test, test and test..
Isolate those who have the virus and track down those who may have been in contact with them..
Well, if you like that idea, good news, the government have almost implemented it and got it working at a reasonable level.
Yes it has taken longer than expected or promised to get a new and complex system in place and iron out the bugs, while all the time getting a kicking off the public, the media and an opposition who would have faired no better at implementing any of it..
All we need to do is comply with the rules, stop being total bell ends help get the virus to a manageable level.
There you go, job done.
I would agree if the PCR test actually told you anything of value, it says found something.. evidence of a virus (any virus)
It can’t tell you if this is evidence of current infection, old infection or what type of virus, all facts
Most of that isn't true. The PCR test for covid 19 is specific to covid 19. An old infection almost certainly wouldn't be detected by the PCR test. One of the weaknesses of PCR test is it quite often misses very recent infections."
That’s interesting as freedom if information requests to PHE have come back saying they hold no information on the virus in isolation
Do you mean testing for Igg.. you can confirm on BMJ lancet etc that this is the bodies response to any virus or toxin |
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The virus SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated. From the CDC:
Coronavirus Disease
LABORATORIES
Viral Culturing
Updated Oct. 27, 2020
SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was isolated in the laboratory and is available for research by the scientific and medical community.
One important way that CDC has supported global efforts to study and learn about SARS-CoV-2 in the laboratory was by growing the virus in cell culture and ensuring that it was widely available. Researchers in the scientific and medical community can use virus obtained from this work in their studies.
CDC is using SARS-CoV-2 in various ways, including the following:
To test serum collected from people who have recovered from COVID-19 to look for antibody that might block viral infections
To determine when people shed live virus during the disease.external icon This information has shaped CDC’s guidance on when to discontinue transmission-based precautions for patients.
SARS-CoV-2 strains supplied by CDC and other researchers can be requested, free, from the Biodefense and Emerging Infections Research (BEI) Resources Repositoryexternal icon by established institutions that meet BEI requirements. These requirements include maintaining appropriate facilities and safety programs, as well as having the appropriate expertise. BEI supplies organisms and reagents to the broader community of microbiology and infectious disease researchers.
Some areas of COVID-19 research that public and academic institutions may study with the SARS-CoV-2 strains include:
Antiviral research:external icon This includes research aimed at testing the ability of existing or experimental antiviral medications to treat or prevent infection with SARS-CoV-2.
Vaccine development:external icon No vaccine is currently available to prevent infection with SARS-CoV-2. Scientists in public, private sector, and academic institutions are developing and assessing vaccine candidates.
Pathogenesis research: This includes research to determine the various ways the virus can be transmitted to a host, the severity of illness it causes in a host, how much virus is produced in the body, and what organs the virus can spread to within the body.
Virus stability research:external icon This is research that indicates how long the virus can survive under certain conditions, such as how long the virus can survive and remain infectious on surfaces, and the temperatures at which it can survive.
Timeline:
On January 20, 2020, CDC received a clinical specimen collected from the first reported U.S. patient infected with SARS-CoV-2. CDC immediately placed the specimen into cell culture to grow a sufficient amount of virus for study.
On February 2, 2020, CDC generated enough SARS-CoV-2 grown in cell culture to distribute to medical and scientific researchers.
On February 4, 2020, CDC shipped SARS-CoV-2 to the BEI Resources Repository.
An article discussing the isolation and characterization of this virus specimen is available in Emerging Infectious Diseases |
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Every country where patients with Covid-19 have presented will have followed standard viral isolation procedures to isolate samples of SARS-CoV-2 from patients in their country. This is how we are able to track the genetic changes (mutations) in the viral RNA over time and across different geographic areas. |
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"
That’s interesting as freedom if information requests to PHE have come back saying they hold no information on the virus in isolation "
Not surprising really.
An FOI request will only illicit information they have generated themselves, not information held by other parties. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
That’s interesting as freedom if information requests to PHE have come back saying they hold no information on the virus in isolation
Not surprising really.
An FOI request will only illicit information they have generated themselves, not information held by other parties. "
Yes but they have to point you towards the dept that may hold that information
It has to my research not been purified or isolated anywhere globally which is of course the gold standard to base any testing on
If anyone can find a link or review paper stating this has been done... please let me know
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every country where patients with Covid-19 have presented will have followed standard viral isolation procedures to isolate samples of SARS-CoV-2 from patients in their country. This is how we are able to track the genetic changes (mutations) in the viral RNA over time and across different geographic areas."
Nope.. not in isolation, please send link if you can find this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The virus SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated. From the CDC:
Coronavirus Disease
LABORATORIES
Viral Culturing
Updated Oct. 27, 2020
SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was isolated in the laboratory and is available for research by the scientific and medical community.
One important way that CDC has supported global efforts to study and learn about SARS-CoV-2 in the laboratory was by growing the virus in cell culture and ensuring that it was widely available. Researchers in the scientific and medical community can use virus obtained from this work in their studies.
CDC is using SARS-CoV-2 in various ways, including the following:
To test serum collected from people who have recovered from COVID-19 to look for antibody that might block viral infections
To determine when people shed live virus during the disease.external icon This information has shaped CDC’s guidance on when to discontinue transmission-based precautions for patients.
SARS-CoV-2 strains supplied by CDC and other researchers can be requested, free, from the Biodefense and Emerging Infections Research (BEI) Resources Repositoryexternal icon by established institutions that meet BEI requirements. These requirements include maintaining appropriate facilities and safety programs, as well as having the appropriate expertise. BEI supplies organisms and reagents to the broader community of microbiology and infectious disease researchers.
Some areas of COVID-19 research that public and academic institutions may study with the SARS-CoV-2 strains include:
Antiviral research:external icon This includes research aimed at testing the ability of existing or experimental antiviral medications to treat or prevent infection with SARS-CoV-2.
Vaccine development:external icon No vaccine is currently available to prevent infection with SARS-CoV-2. Scientists in public, private sector, and academic institutions are developing and assessing vaccine candidates.
Pathogenesis research: This includes research to determine the various ways the virus can be transmitted to a host, the severity of illness it causes in a host, how much virus is produced in the body, and what organs the virus can spread to within the body.
Virus stability research:external icon This is research that indicates how long the virus can survive under certain conditions, such as how long the virus can survive and remain infectious on surfaces, and the temperatures at which it can survive.
Timeline:
On January 20, 2020, CDC received a clinical specimen collected from the first reported U.S. patient infected with SARS-CoV-2. CDC immediately placed the specimen into cell culture to grow a sufficient amount of virus for study.
On February 2, 2020, CDC generated enough SARS-CoV-2 grown in cell culture to distribute to medical and scientific researchers.
On February 4, 2020, CDC shipped SARS-CoV-2 to the BEI Resources Repository.
An article discussing the isolation and characterization of this virus specimen is available in Emerging Infectious Diseases"
Thank you shall go and find and check |
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You can't purify a virus. There are numerous scientific journal articles freely available online which describe the isolation and characterisation of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Fab forbids links to peer reviewed scientific literature hence why I copy/pasted the earlier information. Everything is freely available via online search engine. |
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"You can't purify a virus. There are numerous scientific journal articles freely available online which describe the isolation and characterisation of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Fab forbids links to peer reviewed scientific literature hence why I copy/pasted the earlier information. Everything is freely available via online search engine."
For anyone disbelieving of the isolation and characterisation of SARS-CoV-2:
ISSN: 1080-6059
Harcourt, J. et.al (2020), Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 from Patient with Coronavirus Disease, Emerging Infections Diseases - Volume 26, No.6. pp1266-1273.
doi:10.3201/eid2606.200516. |
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At the end of the day people can look at as many studies as they want, it's not going to that covid isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
All these people bleeting on about the over 65s and the"let them all die" brigade forget about the fact that the chances are much like the flu covid is not going to be completely eradicated and will be with us forever.
So at the moment if you are young and healthy cool let's let all the oldies and sick/vulnerable die.
Then what happens when you get to 65?
Are you happy to be left to fend for yourself and die in a horrific way whilst all the young go out and party laughing at the sick and elderly.
Is this the society you want to live in?
I certainly fucking don't. |
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"At the end of the day people can look at as many studies as they want, it's not going to that covid isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
All these people bleeting on about the over 65s and the"let them all die" brigade forget about the fact that the chances are much like the flu covid is not going to be completely eradicated and will be with us forever.
So at the moment if you are young and healthy cool let's let all the oldies and sick/vulnerable die.
Then what happens when you get to 65?
Are you happy to be left to fend for yourself and die in a horrific way whilst all the young go out and party laughing at the sick and elderly.
Is this the society you want to live in?
I certainly fucking don't."
Yes. Humans don't have an expiry date on being treated as part of the community.
On the other hand I read a suggestion that parents are over reliant on schools - so it doesn't just seem to be ageism, just people not getting what they want. |
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"Figures from ONS Comparing October 2019 and October 2020 there was 8 excess deaths in 2020 compared to 2019
Anything to do with all the restrictions we've had in place to lower deaths perhaps ?"
who knows but 8 extra deaths be interested to see figures for November |
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"Figures from ONS Comparing October 2019 and October 2020 there was 8 excess deaths in 2020 compared to 2019
Anything to do with all the restrictions we've had in place to lower deaths perhaps ? who knows but 8 extra deaths be interested to see figures for November "
From the british medical journal
Quote
..
Excess deaths in England and Wales remain above the five year average, while deaths from covid-19 rose 40% last week, latest data1 show.
Figures from the Office for National Statistics show that in the week ending 6 November, deaths registered for any reason were 14% (1481) above the five year average across England and Wales. But within this there was wide regional variation, with sharp rises in the north of England and Wales but no excess deaths in London.
The number of deaths involving covid-19 increased for the ninth consecutive week, the data show. There were 1937 deaths involving covid-19 registered in England and Wales in the week ending 6 November, an increase of 558 (40%) from 1379 the previous week.
Deaths involving covid-19 increased in all English regions and Wales in the week ending 6 November, with the north west of England having the largest number (568 deaths) and the highest proportion of deaths involving covid-19 (30%). In Wales, 166 deaths (20% of all deaths) involved covid-19.
In the same week, all English regions and Wales had higher or the same overall deaths as the five year average. But while London saw no excess deaths and the south east had only 16 deaths (1%) more than the five year average, the north west saw 496 (35%) more deaths than would be expected, and Wales had 207, 33% higher than the five year average. |
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Ons data week 42
1.Main points
The number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 16 October 2020 (Week 42) was 10,534; this was 580 more deaths than in Week 41.
In Week 42, the number of deaths registered was 6.8% above the five-year average (669 deaths higher). |
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By *ax777Man
over a year ago
Not here |
"Let’s all become mushrooms, stats might prove something we don’t like or not go along with our opinions "
Stats can be made to prove whatever it is you are trying to prove!
The ONS compares the current years figures against an average of the corresponding 5 years in order to smooth out ant monthly ‘blips’ that may otherwise occur. The excess deaths for the 5 weeks ending in October are 3178 and the number reported as Covid 19 are 3786.
BTW, the number of excess deaths for 2020 over 2019 currently stands at |
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By *ax777Man
over a year ago
Not here |
"Let’s all become mushrooms, stats might prove something we don’t like or not go along with our opinions
Stats can be made to prove whatever it is you are trying to prove!
The ONS compares the current years figures against an average of the corresponding 5 years in order to smooth out ant monthly ‘blips’ that may otherwise occur. The excess deaths for the 5 weeks ending in October are 3178 and the number reported as Covid 19 are 3786.
BTW, the number of excess deaths for 2020 over 2019 currently stands at "
Oops missed out the figure of 62 K |
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"Yes, a fully functioning test trace & track system, vaccination and enforcement of breaches."
This ^^^
Allowing for the fact that vaccination will take time, but partial lockdowns are at best marginal when test and trace and enforcement is not done properly, still, after nine months, |
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"First 11 replies show that trying to think differently is probably not possible going by the knee jerk reaction.
Lockdown and release followed by lockdown and release is clearly not sustainable longterm.
The hope is the vaccine works and the over 65's and the vunerable get it first but short term something better is needed with Christmas looming otherwise its going to be mayhem from December 2nd resulting in another lockdown come early next year.
I don't have the answers am just wondering if anyone has alternative suggestions rather than lockdown then release."
Wow that has to be the most spectacular climbdown I have ever seen. This person doesnt even have the ability to form a wrong conclusion and stick to it. |
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"First 11 replies show that trying to think differently is probably not possible going by the knee jerk reaction.
Lockdown and release followed by lockdown and release is clearly not sustainable longterm.
The hope is the vaccine works and the over 65's and the vunerable get it first but short term something better is needed with Christmas looming otherwise its going to be mayhem from December 2nd resulting in another lockdown come early next year.
I don't have the answers am just wondering if anyone has alternative suggestions rather than lockdown then release.
Wow that has to be the most spectacular climbdown I have ever seen. This person doesnt even have the ability to form a wrong conclusion and stick to it."
Nothing wrong with people changing their minds as they learn, every day is a school day
Criticising people for changing their minds now that's .... |
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