FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > France into lockdown
France into lockdown
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"I just saw that its the same as Germany.
I really was hoping we wouldn't have to go back into full lockdown but it isn't looking too hopeful now.  "
Wash hands
Social distance
Wear a mask
Common sense
Understand the risks
No ?
I guess we're heading for full lockwn again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown"
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it was obvious to most that we should have went into lockdown last friday to coincide with the schools holidays...the longer we hang about the longer the lockdown will be I think.. |
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By *eah BabyCouple
over a year ago
Cheshire, Windermere ,Cumbria |
"I just saw that its the same as Germany.
I really was hoping we wouldn't have to go back into full lockdown but it isn't looking too hopeful now. "
Oh not Germany we were hoping to go the boat show there in January, not hopeful now  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I just saw that its the same as Germany.
I really was hoping we wouldn't have to go back into full lockdown but it isn't looking too hopeful now.
Oh not Germany we were hoping to go the boat show there in January, not hopeful now "
I could be wrong but I'm sure that's what I've heard. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown. "
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me |
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Personally I’d rather the lockdown now, it’s obvious the cases are rising, then maybe for those that desperately need it the chance to be with loved ones at Christmas time can happen
Although I did find it odd schools are remaining open in France |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me"
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months. |
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"
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me"
You must have been asleep, it's been the main focus since March !!!!
There have been dozens of threads here warning of the consequences
Still the covidiots deny and try to find excuses for themselves |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months. "
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation? "
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
You must have been asleep, it's been the main focus since March !!!!
There have been dozens of threads here warning of the consequences
Still the covidiots deny and try to find excuses for themselves"
Maybe we should stop the scapegoating and self flagellating. The British public have complied with the government rules and regulations (on the whole) admirably. The levels of compliance shown during the first lockdown surprised the experts and were above and beyond what they expected.
Are these so called "covidiots" to blame for Spain's curfew, France's lockdown and Germany's lockdown too?? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation? "
You can't teach someone to be a nurse or doctor in 6 months. It takes years. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months. "
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?"
Humans are not tube trains  |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?"
Honest, I just pissed my pants |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Honest, I just pissed my pants "
I'll press the bell for a healthcare assistant to change your Tena pants  |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?"
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process |
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The uk government have had six months to plan and prepare to avoid 300+ deaths a day
Eat out to help out, crowded beaches, schools and universities open. Blame who you want but the problems start and end at 10 Downing Street
“ I visited a hospital ward with COVID patients and shook hands with everyone”
Boris Johnson 3rd March |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?"
And would you be happy for your life to be in the hands of somebody that used work as a chef (just an example) With 22 weeks training? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?"
Theres a massive difference in basic anything and behind competent to carry out the duties required in a front line hospital..
Basic Fire fighter training used to be 20 weeks then four years till qualified..
You simply can't compare nursing and tube driving.. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process "
3 yrs and it's degree based.. |
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"The uk government have had six months to plan and prepare to avoid 300+ deaths a day
Eat out to help out, crowded beaches, schools and universities open. Blame who you want but the problems start and end at 10 Downing Street
“ I visited a hospital ward with COVID patients and shook hands with everyone”
Boris Johnson 3rd March "
Yep, and they didn't tell us to wash our hands, socially distance and wear face coverings.
Commonsense and self discipline required
|
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process
3 yrs and it's degree based.."
I thought so but wasn’t sure |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I know during the first spike Some nhs staff or we purposed.
I had a friend who is a children's mental health nurse who was moved to a covid testing center, a friend who is a dental receptionist who moved to the hospital To help with basic admin tasks and a few house keeping ones. they have been repurposing people however anybody that needs clinical care for whatever reason it has to be done by a fully trained medical professional. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process
3 yrs and it's degree based..
I thought so but wasn’t sure "
Tbh there's a general consensus that it should be back how it was with some of the older generation.. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown"
France can’t afford it either.
President Macron was quite adamant a few months ago insisting that France can’t afford a second lockdown.
But with cases surpassing 52,000 on Sunday; and with over 500 deaths yesterday, Macron was left with little choice but to opt for another national lockdown.
Won’t be surprised if Boris takes a similar decision if infections and deaths soar to those figures France has experienced this week. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process "
Firstly, I know it's a poor comparison BUT it's an example of what can be achieved in a short space of time in terms of training somebody to the point of competency in a role of high responsibility and safety and required diligence. When you consider how many lives a tube driver is actually responsible for it is quite impressive.
Secondly, nurses do require extensive training for a number of very obvious reasons. Part of this is that they are required to know about a number of diseases, procedures and regulations. Upon qualifying they often are required to perform a number of routine and mundane duties which do not require all of this training.
My point is this, surely we should of been able to train up some people to take care of these routine, basic and less complicated tasks which would free up some time and allow nurses to be more efficient? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process
Firstly, I know it's a poor comparison BUT it's an example of what can be achieved in a short space of time in terms of training somebody to the point of competency in a role of high responsibility and safety and required diligence. When you consider how many lives a tube driver is actually responsible for it is quite impressive.
Secondly, nurses do require extensive training for a number of very obvious reasons. Part of this is that they are required to know about a number of diseases, procedures and regulations. Upon qualifying they often are required to perform a number of routine and mundane duties which do not require all of this training.
My point is this, surely we should of been able to train up some people to take care of these routine, basic and less complicated tasks which would free up some time and allow nurses to be more efficient? "
They already exist, health care assistants carry out the basics like washing and obs, personal care etc.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process
Firstly, I know it's a poor comparison BUT it's an example of what can be achieved in a short space of time in terms of training somebody to the point of competency in a role of high responsibility and safety and required diligence. When you consider how many lives a tube driver is actually responsible for it is quite impressive.
Secondly, nurses do require extensive training for a number of very obvious reasons. Part of this is that they are required to know about a number of diseases, procedures and regulations. Upon qualifying they often are required to perform a number of routine and mundane duties which do not require all of this training.
My point is this, surely we should of been able to train up some people to take care of these routine, basic and less complicated tasks which would free up some time and allow nurses to be more efficient? "
And that was happening last time so I am sure it will happen this time. Dentists were called in to hospitals to help out with basic tasks for example. But if we don't lock down more people are going to get sick including including those that have transferable skills and those who carefor us. So then who's left? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process
Firstly, I know it's a poor comparison BUT it's an example of what can be achieved in a short space of time in terms of training somebody to the point of competency in a role of high responsibility and safety and required diligence. When you consider how many lives a tube driver is actually responsible for it is quite impressive.
Secondly, nurses do require extensive training for a number of very obvious reasons. Part of this is that they are required to know about a number of diseases, procedures and regulations. Upon qualifying they often are required to perform a number of routine and mundane duties which do not require all of this training.
My point is this, surely we should of been able to train up some people to take care of these routine, basic and less complicated tasks which would free up some time and allow nurses to be more efficient? "
As said before I’m not a medical person and I’ll leave that discussion for those more qualified to say what is deemed mundane when looking after a patient whose body could be going any number of changes with covid in their system.
For me personally, the mundane would be changing the patients bedding, keeping them clean and the ward / equipment, plus offering a caring hand of comfort. Everything else would fall under a qualified individuals remit due to the complexity of what they might have to deal with patient to patient. |
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Hospitals have been preparing for a 2nd wave, but to say more staff should be trained up, you have to appreciate they still have their day job to do I.e. catching up on all those backlogs caused by the first, so I don’t think there’s a lot of spare time available to them |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"Hospitals have been preparing for a 2nd wave, but to say more staff should be trained up, you have to appreciate they still have their day job to do I.e. catching up on all those backlogs caused by the first, so I don’t think there’s a lot of spare time available to them"
Fair point.
I just wonder though, surely part of this preparation should have included ensuring that capacity could be enhanced. I wonder what the actual point of building these Nightingale hospitals was if there were not enough people to staff them in the first place and if it is not feasible to train up people to staff them in the interim period? |
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"Hospitals have been preparing for a 2nd wave, but to say more staff should be trained up, you have to appreciate they still have their day job to do I.e. catching up on all those backlogs caused by the first, so I don’t think there’s a lot of spare time available to them
Fair point.
I just wonder though, surely part of this preparation should have included ensuring that capacity could be enhanced. I wonder what the actual point of building these Nightingale hospitals was if there were not enough people to staff them in the first place and if it is not feasible to train up people to staff them in the interim period?"
I think staffing them was always the issue, we’d have been in a desperate situation if they had to be used. |
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"Hospitals have been preparing for a 2nd wave, but to say more staff should be trained up, you have to appreciate they still have their day job to do I.e. catching up on all those backlogs caused by the first, so I don’t think there’s a lot of spare time available to them
Fair point.
I just wonder though, surely part of this preparation should have included ensuring that capacity could be enhanced. I wonder what the actual point of building these Nightingale hospitals was if there were not enough people to staff them in the first place and if it is not feasible to train up people to staff them in the interim period?"
That would require an ounce of competence. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Hospitals have been preparing for a 2nd wave, but to say more staff should be trained up, you have to appreciate they still have their day job to do I.e. catching up on all those backlogs caused by the first, so I don’t think there’s a lot of spare time available to them
Fair point.
I just wonder though, surely part of this preparation should have included ensuring that capacity could be enhanced. I wonder what the actual point of building these Nightingale hospitals was if there were not enough people to staff them in the first place and if it is not feasible to train up people to staff them in the interim period?
That would require an ounce of competence. "
Every country in Europe is hsving the same problems and staff are being trained but being taken out of other areas.There is more going on than you think.
How do I know?Well I happen to know a few hospital people |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown"
So we're back to playing the blame game then? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?"
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it |
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"Hospitals have been preparing for a 2nd wave, but to say more staff should be trained up, you have to appreciate they still have their day job to do I.e. catching up on all those backlogs caused by the first, so I don’t think there’s a lot of spare time available to them
Fair point.
I just wonder though, surely part of this preparation should have included ensuring that capacity could be enhanced. I wonder what the actual point of building these Nightingale hospitals was if there were not enough people to staff them in the first place and if it is not feasible to train up people to staff them in the interim period?
That would require an ounce of competence. Every country in Europe is hsving the same problems and staff are being trained but being taken out of other areas.There is more going on than you think.
How do I know?Well I happen to know a few hospital people "
It depends what happens.
The egg hands advised us to have one The other week ,which would have coincided with half term
If we have one in a few weeks times it's going to look like acting too slow again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far"
My bet is Sweden won't  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't "
You seem a little obsessed with Sweden they have announced today that there numbers are rising rapidly. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown"
Only after more dithering..
But yes it's inevitable.. |
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"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't
You seem a little obsessed with Sweden they have announced today that there numbers are rising rapidly. "
Yeah I was thinking that ship had sailed too  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it"
That's not actually true, it's an AIRBORNE endemic virus, it will spread regardless, the measures are only designed to SLOW the spread. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?"
Tube trains aren't quite as complicated as human bodies! |
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|
By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it"
Yes, it's a case of identifying where the hotspots of infection are and taking appropriate action to limit the spread to manageable levels. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Tube trains aren't quite as complicated as human bodies! "
|
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it
That's not actually true, it's an AIRBORNE endemic virus, it will spread regardless, the measures are only designed to SLOW the spread."
Shhhhh dont tell him that.
He is convinced its these covid idiots whatever they are. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it
That's not actually true, it's an AIRBORNE endemic virus, it will spread regardless, the measures are only designed to SLOW the spread."
That's why we were supposed to
Wash out hands
Socially distance
Wear a face covering
All pretty simple stuff really ...
|
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|
By *B1974Woman
over a year ago
Stanley |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Honest, I just pissed my pants
I'll press the bell for a healthcare assistant to change your Tena pants "
Hahaha that really did make me laugh, because that's what would happen.
But some HCA's and similar could (and are already) trained to do some of the tasks nurses used to do such as suctioning, tracheostomy care, machine monitoring, peg feeds, medication administering etc |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Honest, I just pissed my pants
I'll press the bell for a healthcare assistant to change your Tena pants
Hahaha that really did make me laugh, because that's what would happen.
But some HCA's and similar could (and are already) trained to do some of the tasks nurses used to do such as suctioning, tracheostomy care, machine monitoring, peg feeds, medication administering etc"
And have you any idea how many of those HCAs managed to get there in 6 months ?
I personally know quite a few ... |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Honest, I just pissed my pants "
What do you suggest?! |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it
That's not actually true, it's an AIRBORNE endemic virus, it will spread regardless, the measures are only designed to SLOW the spread.
That's why we were supposed to
Wash out hands
Socially distance
Wear a face covering
All pretty simple stuff really ...
"
Oh I absolutely agree with that, the more people do it the slower the spread. |
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|
By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't "
“...... My bet is Sweden won't.....
———————————
Sweden has recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections. |
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or View forums list | |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process
Firstly, I know it's a poor comparison BUT it's an example of what can be achieved in a short space of time in terms of training somebody to the point of competency in a role of high responsibility and safety and required diligence. When you consider how many lives a tube driver is actually responsible for it is quite impressive.
Secondly, nurses do require extensive training for a number of very obvious reasons. Part of this is that they are required to know about a number of diseases, procedures and regulations. Upon qualifying they often are required to perform a number of routine and mundane duties which do not require all of this training.
My point is this, surely we should of been able to train up some people to take care of these routine, basic and less complicated tasks which would free up some time and allow nurses to be more efficient? "
 |
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|
By *B1974Woman
over a year ago
Stanley |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Honest, I just pissed my pants
I'll press the bell for a healthcare assistant to change your Tena pants
Hahaha that really did make me laugh, because that's what would happen.
But some HCA's and similar could (and are already) trained to do some of the tasks nurses used to do such as suctioning, tracheostomy care, machine monitoring, peg feeds, medication administering etc
And have you any idea how many of those HCAs managed to get there in 6 months ?
I personally know quite a few ..."
No I'm sorry I don't know how many. I do know quite a few who wouldn't train up due to the poor wages they get (NMW). |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't
“...... My bet is Sweden won't.....
———————————
Sweden has recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections. "
I thought we were talking about a general lockdown of the entire country as stipulated by the post?. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Tube trains aren't quite as complicated as human bodies! "
What knowledge is applied, by nursing staff, to each individual COVID patient? How much do the effects on the body vary patient to patient? How is the nurse deciding on the next course of action? This isn’t general practice dealing with anything that walks or is carried through the door... I don’t think? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't
“...... My bet is Sweden won't.....
———————————
Sweden has recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections.
I thought we were talking about a general lockdown of the entire country as stipulated by the post?."
Well thats how national lockdowns have been going during this second spike. Countrys try local lockdowns first. |
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|
By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The uk government have had six months to plan and prepare to avoid 300+ deaths a day
Eat out to help out, crowded beaches, schools and universities open. Blame who you want but the problems start and end at 10 Downing Street
“ I visited a hospital ward with COVID patients and shook hands with everyone”
Boris Johnson 3rd March "
I think people need to stop putting a political twist to this. It’s all over the world whether they are dictatorships, communist, lefties, righties or upsidebloodydownies & even if no mistakes where made we’d be pretty much in the same boat we are now imo.
There only seem to be two countries doing well Japan & New Zealand. Do you think it might be because they have an “Us” culture rather than a “Me” one?
S |
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"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't
“...... My bet is Sweden won't.....
———————————
Sweden has recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections.
I thought we were talking about a general lockdown of the entire country as stipulated by the post?."
Hasn't that been done to death over the last few months. Maybe you weren't around for that ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The uk government have had six months to plan and prepare to avoid 300+ deaths a day
Eat out to help out, crowded beaches, schools and universities open. Blame who you want but the problems start and end at 10 Downing Street
“ I visited a hospital ward with COVID patients and shook hands with everyone”
Boris Johnson 3rd March
I think people need to stop putting a political twist to this. It’s all over the world whether they are dictatorships, communist, lefties, righties or upsidebloodydownies & even if no mistakes where made we’d be pretty much in the same boat we are now imo.
There only seem to be two countries doing well Japan & New Zealand. Do you think it might be because they have an “Us” culture rather than a “Me” one?
S"
.
I've touched on this before, literally every country that's managed it well are homogeneous and not politically split, the countries not doing well are frankly not. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't
“...... My bet is Sweden won't.....
———————————
Sweden has recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections.
I thought we were talking about a general lockdown of the entire country as stipulated by the post?.
Well thats how national lockdowns have been going during this second spike. Countrys try local lockdowns first. "
Ahh right, well my bet is Sweden won't have a general lockdown unlike most others but time will tell. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't
“...... My bet is Sweden won't.....
———————————
Sweden has recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections.
I thought we were talking about a general lockdown of the entire country as stipulated by the post?.
Well thats how national lockdowns have been going during this second spike. Countrys try local lockdowns first.
Ahh right, well my bet is Sweden won't have a general lockdown unlike most others but time will tell."
I don't understand the obsession with the Swedish model because they did have restrictions and they did lose a lot of people. They are now experiencing the same as the rest of Europe. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Tube trains aren't quite as complicated as human bodies!
What knowledge is applied, by nursing staff, to each individual COVID patient? How much do the effects on the body vary patient to patient? How is the nurse deciding on the next course of action? This isn’t general practice dealing with anything that walks or is carried through the door... I don’t think? "
I don't even know where to start
Yes, human bodies are all 100% identical
They experience the same infection 100% in the same way, same symptoms, same test result readings
Every body (quite literally) is different and therefore individual decisions DO need to be made about each and every one. That's why ICU nursing is supposed to be 1:1, when so many key decisions have to be made based mainly on the output of machines rather than a patient's reported symptoms, because many ICU patients cannot explain what their symptoms are, nor can state their pO2 in air, their prothrombin time, their d-dimer levels, their creatinine clearance time (and a bazillion other markers of normal physiological function). |
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"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't
“...... My bet is Sweden won't.....
———————————
Sweden has recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections.
I thought we were talking about a general lockdown of the entire country as stipulated by the post?.
Well thats how national lockdowns have been going during this second spike. Countrys try local lockdowns first.
Ahh right, well my bet is Sweden won't have a general lockdown unlike most others but time will tell.
I don't understand the obsession with the Swedish model because they did have restrictions and they did lose a lot of people. They are now experiencing the same as the rest of Europe."
The poster doesnt any want to compare sweden with the uk, already stated this clearly  |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"The uk government have had six months to plan and prepare to avoid 300+ deaths a day
Eat out to help out, crowded beaches, schools and universities open. Blame who you want but the problems start and end at 10 Downing Street
“ I visited a hospital ward with COVID patients and shook hands with everyone”
Boris Johnson 3rd March
I think people need to stop putting a political twist to this. It’s all over the world whether they are dictatorships, communist, lefties, righties or upsidebloodydownies & even if no mistakes where made we’d be pretty much in the same boat we are now imo.
There only seem to be two countries doing well Japan & New Zealand. Do you think it might be because they have an “Us” culture rather than a “Me” one?
"
No.
You can't make comparisons between NZ, Japan and Europe as they are so very different.
New Zealand is one of the most isolated places on earth (and rich in natural resources so very self sufficient) so were able to close their borders very quickly. Also they it is sparsely populated and have a favourable climate.
Japan is famously one of the healthiest nations on earth, have low obesity levels and a strong healthcare system. Also the Japanese are habitually incredibly clean which helps greatly with surface transmissions etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far
My bet is Sweden won't
“...... My bet is Sweden won't.....
———————————
Sweden has recently introduced local lockdowns in Uppsala & Malmö due to a rise in infections.
I thought we were talking about a general lockdown of the entire country as stipulated by the post?.
Well thats how national lockdowns have been going during this second spike. Countrys try local lockdowns first.
Ahh right, well my bet is Sweden won't have a general lockdown unlike most others but time will tell.
I don't understand the obsession with the Swedish model because they did have restrictions and they did lose a lot of people. They are now experiencing the same as the rest of Europe.
The poster doesnt any want to compare sweden with the uk, already stated this clearly "
No I just think they've got a better long term strategy and there populations onside with them instead of bitching and moaning constantly.
In the end I think that will prove pivotal. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
Tube trains aren't quite as complicated as human bodies!
What knowledge is applied, by nursing staff, to each individual COVID patient? How much do the effects on the body vary patient to patient? How is the nurse deciding on the next course of action? This isn’t general practice dealing with anything that walks or is carried through the door... I don’t think?
I don't even know where to start
Yes, human bodies are all 100% identical
They experience the same infection 100% in the same way, same symptoms, same test result readings
Every body (quite literally) is different and therefore individual decisions DO need to be made about each and every one. That's why ICU nursing is supposed to be 1:1, when so many key decisions have to be made based mainly on the output of machines rather than a patient's reported symptoms, because many ICU patients cannot explain what their symptoms are, nor can state their pO2 in air, their prothrombin time, their d-dimer levels, their creatinine clearance time (and a bazillion other markers of normal physiological function)."
Ok so each of those measures instigates a response if out of parameters? Sometimes they’ll need interpretation but aren’t these actions driven by tested strategies and not House style trial and error? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown"
Even without lockdown there are huge costs, including tens of thousands of deaths, multiples of that with long-term health disabilities, just from covid-19. Then there are the thousands of people unable to get appropriate or any heavy service for other health problems. These will have costs for decades, as well as the suffering.
£12 billions spent on private companies running the test and tracing services, without financial penalties for poor performance, awarded without competitive tendering. There are £3 or £4 billions spent privately by the government that are unaccounted for. That's a little of the cost we're paying for not not keeping this under control. Test and tracing service isn't anywhere near effective, which it has to be to stop those infectious from infecting others. That 1 thing that's cost us £billions is useless.
What we're doing isn't cheap. And it's wasted as it is not working. It's a failure. We have to do something that's radically effective, if we're to get different results. And, as we know from the last time we sat about dithering, wasting time costs thousands of lives.
There's no point in any country continuing if its population is treated worse than lambs for slaughter, merely collateral damage, whilst incompetent leaders and corporations in league with them bleed it dry. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think countries will go down one by one....
schools, work and essential shops only....
pick which country is next... ireland, france and germany so far"
We're also 6 days in in Wales |
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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago
harrow |
Bolton has been in higher restrictions for nearly 6 weeks and in that time the infection rate has gone up by 1000% now are you telling me that people that have had symptoms have been self isolating or getting a test, or even not attending people’s homes
Sorry people are in a state of covid fatigue |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The virus cannot move around by itself. We move it by moving around. We stop moving, the virus stops moving and dies. I think thats the theory of lockdown. Unfortunately people are never going to fully comply, we are too impatient. Until a vaccine is developed it will be with us. And then still some time after that. Allow the healthy kids to develop immunity and vaccinate from a certain age group and up and of course the sickly. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"The uk government have had six months to plan and prepare to avoid 300+ deaths a day
Eat out to help out, crowded beaches, schools and universities open. Blame who you want but the problems start and end at 10 Downing Street
“ I visited a hospital ward with COVID patients and shook hands with everyone”
Boris Johnson 3rd March
I think people need to stop putting a political twist to this. It’s all over the world whether they are dictatorships, communist, lefties, righties or upsidebloodydownies & even if no mistakes where made we’d be pretty much in the same boat we are now imo.
There only seem to be two countries doing well Japan & New Zealand. Do you think it might be because they have an “Us” culture rather than a “Me” one?
No.
You can't make comparisons between NZ, Japan and Europe as they are so very different.
New Zealand is one of the most isolated places on earth (and rich in natural resources so very self sufficient) so were able to close their borders very quickly. Also they it is sparsely populated and have a favourable climate.
Japan is famously one of the healthiest nations on earth, have low obesity levels and a strong healthcare system. Also the Japanese are habitually incredibly clean which helps greatly with surface transmissions etc"
Maybe you missed something in your own statement “We’re able to close their borders very quickly” Question is why didn’t everyone else? Could be because they were not self sufficient sure but the more likely reason is because their populations wouldn’t stand for it.
What was that famous line from Braveheart again?
S |
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This virus is going to behave in the way it’s going to behave. We have to learn to live with it. These outbreaks are largely down to seasonal changes & lockdowns have a negligible effect as has been proved here & across Europe, now you see infections rising again.
Even if or when we do get a vaccine, as the experts have said, it probably won’t work for a lot of people, we won’t be able to roll it out to everyone & it won’t be 100% effective, at which point we’re still going to have these restrictions.
There is no solution to this, other than living with the virus. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"The uk government have had six months to plan and prepare to avoid 300+ deaths a day
Eat out to help out, crowded beaches, schools and universities open. Blame who you want but the problems start and end at 10 Downing Street
“ I visited a hospital ward with COVID patients and shook hands with everyone”
Boris Johnson 3rd March
I think people need to stop putting a political twist to this. It’s all over the world whether they are dictatorships, communist, lefties, righties or upsidebloodydownies & even if no mistakes where made we’d be pretty much in the same boat we are now imo.
There only seem to be two countries doing well Japan & New Zealand. Do you think it might be because they have an “Us” culture rather than a “Me” one?
No.
You can't make comparisons between NZ, Japan and Europe as they are so very different.
New Zealand is one of the most isolated places on earth (and rich in natural resources so very self sufficient) so were able to close their borders very quickly. Also they it is sparsely populated and have a favourable climate.
Japan is famously one of the healthiest nations on earth, have low obesity levels and a strong healthcare system. Also the Japanese are habitually incredibly clean which helps greatly with surface transmissions etc
Maybe you missed something in your own statement “We’re able to close their borders very quickly” Question is why didn’t everyone else? Could be because they were not self sufficient sure but the more likely reason is because their populations wouldn’t stand for it.
What was that famous line from Braveheart again?
S"
Other countries closed their borders too- Australia, Japan and USA for example. How effective this was I don't think we'll ever know but in the UK we did take a long time to get entry under some form of control. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"Lockdowns don’t work as has been proved from the Spring.
What is it you dont understand about it? lockdown was to slow the virus, stop the nhs getting overwhelmed its not a cure."
Instigating another lockdown seems like going back to square one because we have not found a way to adequately live with this virus. The WHO advise against lockdowns as primary control measure, which is what European leaders seem to be using them as. I wonder what we will do when the really cold weather comes between December and February? Are we supposed to keep locking down every few weeks?? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Lockdowns don’t work as has been proved from the Spring.
What is it you dont understand about it? lockdown was to slow the virus, stop the nhs getting overwhelmed its not a cure.
Instigating another lockdown seems like going back to square one because we have not found a way to adequately live with this virus. The WHO advise against lockdowns as primary control measure, which is what European leaders seem to be using them as. I wonder what we will do when the really cold weather comes between December and February? Are we supposed to keep locking down every few weeks??"
Well personally im not in favour of another full lockdown i think if people stick to the rules local ones could work. Unfortunately there are those who choose to ignore them or find a way around them. |
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" What knowledge is applied, by nursing staff, to each individual COVID patient? How much do the effects on the body vary patient to patient? How is the nurse deciding on the next course of action? This isn’t general practice dealing with anything that walks or is carried through the door... I don’t think?
I don't even know where to start
Yes, human bodies are all 100% identical
They experience the same infection 100% in the same way, same symptoms, same test result readings
Every body (quite literally) is different and therefore individual decisions DO need to be made about each and every one. That's why ICU nursing is supposed to be 1:1, when so many key decisions have to be made based mainly on the output of machines rather than a patient's reported symptoms, because many ICU patients cannot explain what their symptoms are, nor can state their pO2 in air, their prothrombin time, their d-dimer levels, their creatinine clearance time (and a bazillion other markers of normal physiological function).
Ok so each of those measures instigates a response if out of parameters? Sometimes they’ll need interpretation but aren’t these actions driven by tested strategies and not House style trial and error? "
It's about interpreting the whole data set, not just individual parameters. That's not straightforward. If a patient's oxygen sats drop by 2%, there's no specific amount to increase the O2 flow to the patient by which every single patient will respond to. The operator needs the skill to make small adjustments, to observe any changes in the observations and to act quickly if something goes wrong. A lot of key decisions are made by doctors, but nurses need to be able to interpret the meaning of myriad bits of data the machines are churning out, then they need to know how to present that to the doc and then exactly how to make the changes to the various machines etc that they're told to do.
It's very individual to the patient and it's very complicated. |
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"Lockdowns don’t work as has been proved from the Spring.
What is it you dont understand about it? lockdown was to slow the virus, stop the nhs getting overwhelmed its not a cure.
Instigating another lockdown seems like going back to square one because we have not found a way to adequately live with this virus. The WHO advise against lockdowns as primary control measure, which is what European leaders seem to be using them as. I wonder what we will do when the really cold weather comes between December and February? Are we supposed to keep locking down every few weeks??Well personally im not in favour of another full lockdown i think if people stick to the rules local ones could work. Unfortunately there are those who choose to ignore them or find a way around them. "
It’s more nuanced than simply about people just not following rules. They delay the inevitable regardless of whether they’re adhered to.
|
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Lockdowns don’t work as has been proved from the Spring.
What is it you dont understand about it? lockdown was to slow the virus, stop the nhs getting overwhelmed its not a cure.
Instigating another lockdown seems like going back to square one because we have not found a way to adequately live with this virus. The WHO advise against lockdowns as primary control measure, which is what European leaders seem to be using them as. I wonder what we will do when the really cold weather comes between December and February? Are we supposed to keep locking down every few weeks??Well personally im not in favour of another full lockdown i think if people stick to the rules local ones could work. Unfortunately there are those who choose to ignore them or find a way around them.
It’s more nuanced than simply about people just not following rules. They delay the inevitable regardless of whether they’re adhered to.
"
Well yes i know a delay is inevitable but i stand by my comment as its people that spread it. |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
All lockdowns do is temporarily control the number of ICU beds to keep demand within capacity, does anyone actually believe lockdown achieves anything else? This virus is very very similar to a cold, a bit spikier but very similar, we can’t control it and they won’t be a vaccine but we can easily protect ourselves from catching a cold and limit the impact if we get it so just apply the sane to this and get on with life |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months.
I understand that it takes a lot of training and knowledge to carry out those roles. However I am sure that in the previous six months we could have trained people in the basics of Covid care and machine operation for support roles etc.
It just seems like a lack of preparation?
I’m not a medical person but I think the basic of covid care still requires a medically trained doctor or nurse, it’s not something you can learn in 6 months.
Possibly? I'm no expert either so I ask the question. It just seems a bit unusual that someone can be taught to drive a London Underground tube train in 22 weeks but not given basic medical training in that same time?
But they wouldn’t be called on to give medication, emergency medical care, insertion of breathing tubes, as examples. To be a nurse in this country takes three years minimum I believe, it’s not a short process
Firstly, I know it's a poor comparison BUT it's an example of what can be achieved in a short space of time in terms of training somebody to the point of competency in a role of high responsibility and safety and required diligence. When you consider how many lives a tube driver is actually responsible for it is quite impressive.
Secondly, nurses do require extensive training for a number of very obvious reasons. Part of this is that they are required to know about a number of diseases, procedures and regulations. Upon qualifying they often are required to perform a number of routine and mundane duties which do not require all of this training.
My point is this, surely we should of been able to train up some people to take care of these routine, basic and less complicated tasks which would free up some time and allow nurses to be more efficient? "
We do, they are called healthcare assistants, they do a magnificent job for shit money.
They can do obs, cannulation, catheterisation but these are just tasks to be performed, they do not have the overall knowledge that nurses do.
They are pretty fucking great to be honest but you have to want to do what they do, you certainly don't do it for the money.
Also, they would tell you themselves that you don't want to be leaving them in charge of patients without proper supervision. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it"
Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free "
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’?"
this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold. "
The how to live with point is interesting, it's going to kill a lot of people before we even get to that point..
Trouble is no one knows how many.. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’?"
Got a better plan ? Lockdown does not work look at Spain such tough restrictions mask from the start ,Yep Sofa it is just come out to eat so much safer |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold. "
Oh of course the ‘Great Barrington declaration’ signed by (among others):
Prof. Notaf Uckingclue
Dr Harold Shipman
Dr Person Fakename
Dr Very Dodgy Doctor
Dr Johnny Fartpants
Mr Banana Rama
Which of those eminent physicians do you place your trust in?
|
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"I just saw that its the same as Germany.
I really was hoping we wouldn't have to go back into full lockdown but it isn't looking too hopeful now.
Oh not Germany we were hoping to go the boat show there in January, not hopeful now "
We were going to go as well would have been nice to meet up looks doubtful now though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? Got a better plan ? Lockdown does not work look at Spain such tough restrictions mask from the start ,Yep Sofa it is just come out to eat so much safer "
Just to be clear, you believe there are only two options, total lockdown or total freedom? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Until December"
Yes it can do on euro funding
You tend to find the country or towns that shout for lock down are shouting louder for central funding, then where the money goes after this is anyone’s guess |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Until December
Yes it can do on euro funding
You tend to find the country or towns that shout for lock down are shouting louder for central funding, then where the money goes after this is anyone’s guess"
Shame we’re no longer part of the EU, we could’ve had some of that cash. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me"
How does one increase capacity in Hospitals?
It’s a good line but... it takes around 11 years for an ICU consultant to fully train. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"All lockdowns do is temporarily control the number of ICU beds to keep demand within capacity, does anyone actually believe lockdown achieves anything else? This virus is very very similar to a cold, a bit spikier but very similar, we can’t control it and they won’t be a vaccine but we can easily protect ourselves from catching a cold and limit the impact if we get it so just apply the sane to this and get on with life "
“........ All lockdowns do is temporarily control the number of ICU beds to keep demand within capacity.....”
———————————————
That is what lockdown is meant to achieve anyway.
If your ICU & hospital beds reach full capacity, then more people will die with covid & other illnesses because they won’t have access to treatment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
How does one increase capacity in Hospitals?
It’s a good line but... it takes around 11 years for an ICU consultant to fully train."
I can never quite work out of this is down to arrogance, ie. I trained to do my job in 3 months so why can’t a doctor?
Or, because people can not grasp the incredible complexity of the world and need to believe that there are simple solutions to even the most complex problems because that means we have some so control over our destiny.
I suppose it’s like the belief in conspiracy theories, more comforting to believe there is a vast global cabal controlling everything than admit to oneself the world is inherently chaotic and unfair. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"All lockdowns do is temporarily control the number of ICU beds to keep demand within capacity, does anyone actually believe lockdown achieves anything else? This virus is very very similar to a cold, a bit spikier but very similar, we can’t control it and they won’t be a vaccine but we can easily protect ourselves from catching a cold and limit the impact if we get it so just apply the sane to this and get on with life
“........ All lockdowns do is temporarily control the number of ICU beds to keep demand within capacity.....”
———————————————
That is what lockdown is meant to achieve anyway.
If your ICU & hospital beds reach full capacity, then more people will die with covid & other illnesses because they won’t have access to treatment. "
People need to understand that there are a lot of operations that cannot go ahead unless there is an ITU bed ready for that patient after surgery. That patient may then be in that ITU bed for 6 hours or 6 weeks. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold. "
“....... a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold....”
—————————————
Except that this virus has killed more people in 7 months compared to what flu and common cold kills in a whole year. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Until December
Yes it can do on euro funding
You tend to find the country or towns that shout for lock down are shouting louder for central funding, then where the money goes after this is anyone’s guess
Shame we’re no longer part of the EU, we could’ve had some of that cash."
They still taking our money every day
Millions pour that way
The euro thief’s find London 300 million on air pollution last year and 10 years before that
Just on city in the Uk
Let them lock down on thier own money
Same as wales calls for lock down then asked for central money |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdown
Yes but the issue ways the hospitals will be full and the nhs will be overwhelmed. The only reason we want into Lockdown.
That is the reason for the one in March, although lockdown is not an effective strategy in the long term and there is evidence that the effects of lockdown cause more deaths and ill health in the longer term than Covid.
Quite why the people in charge did not foresee the winter spike and increase available capacity in hospitals is very much beyond me
And who is going to staff this extra capacity? They have been planning been planning for a second winter spike But you can't train extra doctors, nurses and specialists in 7 months. "
Bring in all the doctors receptionists lol they seem to think that they are qualified lol |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"All lockdowns do is temporarily control the number of ICU beds to keep demand within capacity, does anyone actually believe lockdown achieves anything else? This virus is very very similar to a cold, a bit spikier but very similar, we can’t control it and they won’t be a vaccine but we can easily protect ourselves from catching a cold and limit the impact if we get it so just apply the sane to this and get on with life
“........ All lockdowns do is temporarily control the number of ICU beds to keep demand within capacity.....”
———————————————
That is what lockdown is meant to achieve anyway.
If your ICU & hospital beds reach full capacity, then more people will die with covid & other illnesses because they won’t have access to treatment.
People need to understand that there are a lot of operations that cannot go ahead unless there is an ITU bed ready for that patient after surgery. That patient may then be in that ITU bed for 6 hours or 6 weeks."
That’s true, and that’s the point I was making above. But seems like some people struggle to understand that. |
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"Until December
Yes it can do on euro funding
You tend to find the country or towns that shout for lock down are shouting louder for central funding, then where the money goes after this is anyone’s guess
Shame we’re no longer part of the EU, we could’ve had some of that cash.
They still taking our money every day
Millions pour that way
The euro thief’s find London 300 million on air pollution last year and 10 years before that
Just on city in the Uk
Let them lock down on thier own money
Same as wales calls for lock down then asked for central money"
 |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? Got a better plan ? Lockdown does not work look at Spain such tough restrictions mask from the start ,Yep Sofa it is just come out to eat so much safer
Just to be clear, you believe there are only two options, total lockdown or total freedom?"
We tried the one in between total lockdown and total freedom, unfortunately a large number of people didn't read the instructions. |
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The Gov Nhs want to save lives
The Gov want to help the economy
I’ve a bad feeling that the Gov are inadvertently going for the herd immunity ?
Or else the Nhs track n trace app, contact details & ID would be compulsory ?
We've only been wearing face covering for a few months
Yet it wasn’t advised from March & throughout first lockdown when it could’ve possibly reduced infection rates & the spreading reduced
If restrictions of full lockdown & curfew works in other countries, inevitably it will eventually happen here ?
Keep to the rules in your regions,
Keep to the rules in your local area
Try to obey the rules of 6,
Try to maintain your bubbles
Anyone in the household show symptoms all self isolate
Always have 2 weeks food stocked ready to isolate
Call me when it’s all over !  |
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The Gov Nhs want to save lives
The Gov want to help the economy
I’ve a bad feeling that the Gov are inadvertently going for the herd immunity ?
Or else the Nhs track n trace app, contact details & ID would be compulsory ?
We've only been wearing face covering for a few months
Yet it wasn’t advised from March & throughout first lockdown when it could’ve possibly reduced infection rates & the spreading reduced
If restrictions of full lockdown & curfew works in other countries, inevitably it will eventually happen here ?
Keep to the rules in your regions,
Keep to the rules in your local area
Try to obey the rules of 6,
Try to maintain your bubbles
Anyone in the household show symptoms all self isolate
Always have 2 weeks food stocked ready to isolate
Call me when it’s all over ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold.
Oh of course the ‘Great Barrington declaration’ signed by (among others):
Prof. Notaf Uckingclue
Dr Harold Shipman
Dr Person Fakename
Dr Very Dodgy Doctor
Dr Johnny Fartpants
Mr Banana Rama
Which of those eminent physicians do you place your trust in?
"
I'm not an advocate of the GBD but you were fairly selective on the ones you named, because there were genuine signatories on it.
Just because it got the medical version of Boaty Mcboatface on it doesn't mean it should be dismissed. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold. "
Are you forgetting we have vaccines for flu ?
I'm not sure how many people die annually from common cold but I'm sure someone will tell us soon. |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold.
Are you forgetting we have vaccines for flu ?
I'm not sure how many people die annually from common cold but I'm sure someone will tell us soon."
The flu vaccine is around 50% effective.
When you say common cold, do you mean flu like, rhino or Corona virus? |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold.
Are you forgetting we have vaccines for flu ?
I'm not sure how many people die annually from common cold but I'm sure someone will tell us soon.
The flu vaccine is around 50% effective.
When you say common cold, do you mean flu like, rhino or Corona virus?"
It's 50% more effective than the Covid one then isn't it |
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"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold.
Are you forgetting we have vaccines for flu ?
I'm not sure how many people die annually from common cold but I'm sure someone will tell us soon.
The flu vaccine is around 50% effective.
When you say common cold, do you mean flu like, rhino or Corona virus?"
The effectiveness of the seasonal flu vaccine is highly variable. Depends on the strains of flu circulating, if the predictions of what needs to be in the vaccine annually are right etc. Indications from our southern hemisphere amigos is this year's vaccine is very effective.
Influenza viruses are highly variable and mutate rapidly. Evidence to date is SARS-CoV-2 is very stable and not changing rapidly, at least not at the moment. Coronaviruses in general seem to behave like that in general. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Until December
Yes it can do on euro funding
You tend to find the country or towns that shout for lock down are shouting louder for central funding, then where the money goes after this is anyone’s guess
Shame we’re no longer part of the EU, we could’ve had some of that cash.
They still taking our money every day
Millions pour that way
The euro thief’s find London 300 million on air pollution last year and 10 years before that
Just on city in the Uk
Let them lock down on thier own money
Same as wales calls for lock down then asked for central money"
Oh so we finance the EU Covid support but France doesn’t? |
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"Until December
Yes it can do on euro funding
You tend to find the country or towns that shout for lock down are shouting louder for central funding, then where the money goes after this is anyone’s guess
Shame we’re no longer part of the EU, we could’ve had some of that cash.
They still taking our money every day
Millions pour that way
The euro thief’s find London 300 million on air pollution last year and 10 years before that
Just on city in the Uk
Let them lock down on thier own money
Same as wales calls for lock down then asked for central money
Oh so we finance the EU Covid support but France doesn’t?"
According to Karen that's correct |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I really doubt we could afford another full lockdownCan we afford not to?
We can't afford to
We shouldnt have to
We have too many stupid people
We will lockdown
So we're back to playing the blame game then?
Absolutely, the virus can't spread itself, it takes people to spread it Let’s all stay hid behind the sofa ,never come in contact with anyone then we can be Covid free
So you believe the only two options are ‘let everyone do what they want’ or ‘hide behind the sofa’? this is the agreement of 4000 doctors and scientists. What we are doing may not stop the spread anyway and could just be a virus we have to live with like flu or common cold.
Oh of course the ‘Great Barrington declaration’ signed by (among others):
Prof. Notaf Uckingclue
Dr Harold Shipman
Dr Person Fakename
Dr Very Dodgy Doctor
Dr Johnny Fartpants
Mr Banana Rama
Which of those eminent physicians do you place your trust in?
I'm not an advocate of the GBD but you were fairly selective on the ones you named, because there were genuine signatories on it.
Just because it got the medical version of Boaty Mcboatface on it doesn't mean it should be dismissed."
I suppose I could’ve also named some of the alternative medicine practitioners who signed it?
I don’t dismiss it because of the fake names, I do however call into question how effectively they have checked their theories if they can’t check their signatories.
Also, a huge amount of scientists have said it has no scientific basis. |
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" What knowledge is applied, by nursing staff, to each individual COVID patient? How much do the effects on the body vary patient to patient? How is the nurse deciding on the next course of action? This isn’t general practice dealing with anything that walks or is carried through the door... I don’t think?
I don't even know where to start
Yes, human bodies are all 100% identical
They experience the same infection 100% in the same way, same symptoms, same test result readings
Every body (quite literally) is different and therefore individual decisions DO need to be made about each and every one. That's why ICU nursing is supposed to be 1:1, when so many key decisions have to be made based mainly on the output of machines rather than a patient's reported symptoms, because many ICU patients cannot explain what their symptoms are, nor can state their pO2 in air, their prothrombin time, their d-dimer levels, their creatinine clearance time (and a bazillion other markers of normal physiological function).
Ok so each of those measures instigates a response if out of parameters? Sometimes they’ll need interpretation but aren’t these actions driven by tested strategies and not House style trial and error?
It's about interpreting the whole data set, not just individual parameters. That's not straightforward. If a patient's oxygen sats drop by 2%, there's no specific amount to increase the O2 flow to the patient by which every single patient will respond to. The operator needs the skill to make small adjustments, to observe any changes in the observations and to act quickly if something goes wrong. A lot of key decisions are made by doctors, but nurses need to be able to interpret the meaning of myriad bits of data the machines are churning out, then they need to know how to present that to the doc and then exactly how to make the changes to the various machines etc that they're told to do.
It's very individual to the patient and it's very complicated."
So no one has the mental capacity to absorb the information required and to put the learning into practice other than a nurse who’s done three years ? For a specific condition with however many permutations there isn’t a method that can be taught in months rather than years? |
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