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Volunteer in Oxford University’s COVID-19 vaccine trial DIES
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’? |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?"
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?"
Yes.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?"
The stated death is from complications due to Covid 19. So the person had Covid, which means either the vaccine didn't work or they could have been on the placebo, which would mean it was totally unrelated to their death.
For the record, if it passes clinical trials, I will take it. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
The stated death is from complications due to Covid 19. So the person had Covid, which means either the vaccine didn't work or they could have been on the placebo, which would mean it was totally unrelated to their death.
For the record, if it passes clinical trials, I will take it. "
I read that too but wont stop the antivac mob claiming it was the vaccine that killed him.  |
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Quote from BBC:
The BBC understands that the volunteer did not receive the vaccine.
Only around half the volunteers in the trial are given the actual Oxford University Covid-19 vaccine. The second group are being given an existing licensed vaccine for meningitis. |
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I will take the right decision at the appropriate point on having a vaccine. It's obviously not available today, trials are ongoing.
When the results are in, if the trials conclude successfully, that's our focus. In the meantime, we can let the research team manage their job. They'll ova be distressed that their work may have caused loss of life and it's admirable that the volunteer has sadly paid such a high price. He may have had the placebo, not the vaccine of course |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?"
the trials has continued, and was reported so way before you posted this. Do better research.
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
It’s just one death and might have been anything either related or non related to the vaccine.
Sometimes people just die!
It’s a known fact that sometimes there is no apparent reason it could easily be a reaction to the needle |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes I also read the person was given the placebo "
Imagine dying from Covid when you are on a placebo in the vaccine trial. If they had just been lucky enough to be on the actual vaccine... That must be a sickener for their family. But yeah I will take the vaccine if it passes trials. |
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria."
This post is not there to ‘whip up hysteria’ it’s a factual thread with a question underneath not more not less and to all those who claim it might have been 100 other reasons why a 28 year old man from Rio died - tomorrow media will announce he was a poor man living in poor conditions who threw himself under the bus blah blah blah - one young man vs multi billion company with the ‘best’ solution to current international crisis ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria."
This
Plus this is my reaction to sars-cov2.
I'm a data man, if it's a really small chance I'll probably take it anyway, but it would need to be smaller than 0.01% otherwise I wouldn't. |
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
This
Plus this is my reaction to sars-cov2.
I'm a data man, if it's a really small chance I'll probably take it anyway, but it would need to be smaller than 0.01% otherwise I wouldn't."
So far 30.000 participants - 2 participants had serious illnesses, 1 participant died (we will not find out if these three participants suffered directly from being vaccinated or other reasons due to medical confidentiality) - no number relating to less serious illnesses - sadly I doubt we will see the relevant data in order to make the right decision - there is far to much at stake, both financially and otherwise - the pressure on bringing out a vaccine is far to high. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
This
Plus this is my reaction to sars-cov2.
I'm a data man, if it's a really small chance I'll probably take it anyway, but it would need to be smaller than 0.01% otherwise I wouldn't.
So far 30.000 participants - 2 participants had serious illnesses, 1 participant died (we will not find out if these three participants suffered directly from being vaccinated or other reasons due to medical confidentiality) - no number relating to less serious illnesses - sadly I doubt we will see the relevant data in order to make the right decision - there is far to much at stake, both financially and otherwise - the pressure on bringing out a vaccine is far to high. "
No vaccine is without side affects and some can be very serious but 3 in 30,000 wouldn't make me not take a vaccine. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's the schrodingers cat of vaccines. If a person on a vaccine trials passes after getting the vaccine It's definitely the vaccine that caused it. If that person was on a placebo then it is possible for things other than a vaccine to cause death...
Also Fab Fact #831... |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
This
Plus this is my reaction to sars-cov2.
I'm a data man, if it's a really small chance I'll probably take it anyway, but it would need to be smaller than 0.01% otherwise I wouldn't.
So far 30.000 participants - 2 participants had serious illnesses, 1 participant died (we will not find out if these three participants suffered directly from being vaccinated or other reasons due to medical confidentiality) - no number relating to less serious illnesses - sadly I doubt we will see the relevant data in order to make the right decision - there is far to much at stake, both financially and otherwise - the pressure on bringing out a vaccine is far to high.
No vaccine is without side affects and some can be very serious but 3 in 30,000 wouldn't make me not take a vaccine. "
But what if the chance of harm from the vaccine was greater than from catching the disease, would you still have the vaccine then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Oxford vaccine seems to be the only one doing full trials...both China and Russia have released vaccines for use but little or no public data on any trials..I am sure all the data and results for the Oxford vaccine will be released if and when the vaccine is approved. Nothing is without risk, people have reactions to simple foods let alone medicines and such its life..The same as some will refuse any vaccine and run the risk of covid that is there choice in a free world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?"
Yes I will |
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
He DID NOT get the vaccine !!!!!
This has not been confirmed and won’t be confirmed just as the other two serious cases plus we don’t know how many other less serious cases - British media have used an editorial written by Brazilian paper which states he has received placebo but that has not been confirmed - a piece of paper will ‘swallow’ anything you write on it. |
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So when this vaccine is approved if a percentage died from taking it due to an alergic reaction to an ingrediant they didnt know they had or any number of other reasons would it put you off having it or just make you ask the doctors more about it |
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"So when this vaccine is approved if a percentage died from taking it due to an alergic reaction to an ingrediant they didnt know they had or any number of other reasons would it put you off having it or just make you ask the doctors more about it"
By the time I’d be eligible to receive the vaccine in the list of priorities, I would be following the research carefully as to any side effects experienced and what they think an underlying cause of them are. As with all vaccines that are new to you, we have no way of knowing how we will react to them until taken.
If a vaccine has gone through the vigorous testing that is required, then yes I think the risk is worth taking the vaccine |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
This
Plus this is my reaction to sars-cov2.
I'm a data man, if it's a really small chance I'll probably take it anyway, but it would need to be smaller than 0.01% otherwise I wouldn't.
So far 30.000 participants - 2 participants had serious illnesses, 1 participant died (we will not find out if these three participants suffered directly from being vaccinated or other reasons due to medical confidentiality) - no number relating to less serious illnesses - sadly I doubt we will see the relevant data in order to make the right decision - there is far to much at stake, both financially and otherwise - the pressure on bringing out a vaccine is far to high.
No vaccine is without side affects and some can be very serious but 3 in 30,000 wouldn't make me not take a vaccine.
But what if the chance of harm from the vaccine was greater than from catching the disease, would you still have the vaccine then?"
But at the moment it isn't. |
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
"So when this vaccine is approved if a percentage died from taking it due to an alergic reaction to an ingrediant they didnt know they had or any number of other reasons would it put you off having it or just make you ask the doctors more about it"
My answer is simply NO - I will not take the risk for the sake of being ill for two weeks with flu like symptoms which I go through once a year in any way. I’ve had the opportunity to understand how my body reacts to covid.....
however if my life depended on it - I would dig deeper and take the time to research although I would probably feel like I’m playing Russian Roulette. |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
The stated death is from complications due to Covid 19. So the person had Covid, which means either the vaccine didn't work or they could have been on the placebo, which would mean it was totally unrelated to their death.
For the record, if it passes clinical trials, I will take it. "
It was the placebo they were on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There has never been a vaccine for the flu in the past and there won't be one in the future.
It's simple to understand that the flu evolves faster than any form of protection/immunity.
Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for fear either  |
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"There has never been a vaccine for the flu in the past and there won't be one in the future.
It's simple to understand that the flu evolves faster than any form of protection/immunity.
Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for fear either "
I thought that’s what Special Brew and Stella were for ...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There has never been a vaccine for the flu in the past and there won't be one in the future.
It's simple to understand that the flu evolves faster than any form of protection/immunity.
Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for fear either
I thought that’s what Special Brew and Stella were for ... "
Haha very good |
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"It's the schrodingers cat of vaccines. If a person on a vaccine trials passes after getting the vaccine It's definitely the vaccine that caused it. If that person was on a placebo then it is possible for things other than a vaccine to cause death...
Also Fab Fact #831..."
Schrödinger's vaccine insert too. *They* won't tell you what the risks are. *They* can't be trusted. Oh look. A list *they* produced of potential risks from a vaccine, produced from data including trials. You know that we said they can never be trusted? Except this. Vaccines are scary oooh
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There has never been a vaccine for the flu in the past and there won't be one in the future.
It's simple to understand that the flu evolves faster than any form of protection/immunity.
Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for fear either "
There is a vaccine for many strains of flu. |
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"There has never been a vaccine for the flu in the past and there won't be one in the future.
It's simple to understand that the flu evolves faster than any form of protection/immunity.
Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for fear either
There is a vaccine for many strains of flu. "
We require many vaccinations for flu because it has high antigenic drift: it changes quickly.
The new corona virus (the flu isn't a corona virus) has extremely slow antigenic drift.
Fortunately every year we get two vaccines (at least?) for the flu that they predict will come in the mid year (southern hemisphere) and end of year flu seasons.
(Adding to what you're saying Lorna) |
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
"There has never been a vaccine for the flu in the past and there won't be one in the future.
It's simple to understand that the flu evolves faster than any form of protection/immunity.
Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for fear either
I thought that’s what Special Brew and Stella were for ...
Haha very good "
Talking about special brew : ) It’s nearly Friday : ) - I do rely on my home made covid test which everyone can do at home once a week  - pour any type of wine in to the glass (or other alcohol based on your preference, although I would avoid vodka), - smell the ‘bouquet’ have a sip to taste - if you can smell and taste it you’ve passed and your test comes out negative |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?"
You've stated something which may be true but a big lie to at the same time.
Then you ask a question completely unrelated. So I don't understand what Ur asking.
Are you asking would I take the current vaccine under trial or take it when it's been approved? Two very different vaccine stages and potentially two different vaccines. |
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
You've stated something which may be true but a big lie to at the same time.
Then you ask a question completely unrelated. So I don't understand what Ur asking.
Are you asking would I take the current vaccine under trial or take it when it's been approved? Two very different vaccine stages and potentially two different vaccines."
My question is very clear - quote ‘will you take the risk once it’s been approved’ - I don’t see how this needs further explanation.
As to the quoted statement - right from the start 30.000 participants taking part, at current and last 3rd stage one man dies and two have very serious complications, it is unknown how many less serious complications happened and what they were. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
You've stated something which may be true but a big lie to at the same time.
Then you ask a question completely unrelated. So I don't understand what Ur asking.
Are you asking would I take the current vaccine under trial or take it when it's been approved? Two very different vaccine stages and potentially two different vaccines.
My question is very clear - quote ‘will you take the risk once it’s been approved’ - I don’t see how this needs further explanation.
As to the quoted statement - right from the start 30.000 participants taking part, at current and last 3rd stage one man dies and two have very serious complications, it is unknown how many less serious complications happened and what they were. "
I know very few people who are in 'perfect' health. Expecting every single person out of a 30 000 trial to stay in perfect health is unrealistic.
Saying that a person developed health issues because of the vaccine and saying a person on the trial having health issues are two completely different kettles of fish. From what I understand the person who died was on the placebo. But even if they weren't, it would require a full investigation to determine the facts. Information which would be confidential in nature.
What needs to be asked is if this vaccine is so dodge why aren't the other 29 997 people keeling over?
My understanding is that there are other trials going on in the US and India too... lots of people involved. |
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When any given vaccine is approved by the appropriate authorities, I will ask my doctor what the risk profile means given my medical history. (Erring on the side of "I want to do my bit to help public health and yes I'll assume risk to do so").
The idea that most people are equipped to understand the risk profile involved, or overrule the procedures that these things go through to be deemed safe, is absurd. |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria."
Sandra says it was bill gates in the drawing room with a candlestick |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
Sandra says it was bill gates in the drawing room with a candlestick"
Probably under a 5G mast? Had they forgotten their special hat? |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
Sandra says it was bill gates in the drawing room with a candlestick
Probably under a 5G mast? Had they forgotten their special hat?"
The 5G people changed their evil agenda to the Rona. Rumour has it aluminum (sic) was involved. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
Sandra says it was bill gates in the drawing room with a candlestick"
I'm never taking a placebo again! They're deadly man! (Spread the rumour) |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
Sandra says it was bill gates in the drawing room with a candlestick
I'm never taking a placebo again! They're deadly man! (Spread the rumour) "
Placebo are a well known manufacturer of lethal drugs... OPEN YOUR EYES...
 |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
Sandra says it was bill gates in the drawing room with a candlestick
I'm never taking a placebo again! They're deadly man! (Spread the rumour)
Placebo are a well known manufacturer of lethal drugs... OPEN YOUR EYES...
"
Wake up! |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
Ok, and is the death directly linked to the vaccine, or did they fall head first down the stairs or overdose on paracetamol or in fact s multitude of causes of death that could be wholly unrelated. Let's not whip up hysteria.
Sandra says it was bill gates in the drawing room with a candlestick
I'm never taking a placebo again! They're deadly man! (Spread the rumour)
Placebo are a well known manufacturer of lethal drugs... OPEN YOUR EYES...
Wake up!"
That's a fact... FACT!!!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?"
I said it before and I'll say it again...don't do it.
No way. |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
I said it before and I'll say it again...don't do it.
No way."
If you read further than the opening post it becomes evident that the unfortunate soul who died was actually taking the placebo. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
I said it before and I'll say it again...don't do it.
No way."
He had taken a placebo |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There has never been a vaccine for the flu in the past and there won't be one in the future.
It's simple to understand that the flu evolves faster than any form of protection/immunity.
Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for fear either
There is a vaccine for many strains of flu.
We require many vaccinations for flu because it has high antigenic drift: it changes quickly.
The new corona virus (the flu isn't a corona virus) has extremely slow antigenic drift.
Fortunately every year we get two vaccines (at least?) for the flu that they predict will come in the mid year (southern hemisphere) and end of year flu seasons.
(Adding to what you're saying Lorna)"
I understand there are vaccines for the flu and they have been successful. On the surface my comment is vague and without real substance. What I am trying to say is the flu is still around, different strain or not....the vaccine works and the flu evolves, the feedback loop is ascertained. What is covid? I am no expert but it has symptoms like the flu and attacks the immune system like the flu.
I am completely ill educated on the matter, and have no real grounds to have an opinion...I am just an open minded pessimist flowing through life. I just feel this particular requested vaccine is a metaphorical poisonous carrot for worried donkeys. Donkey is not referenced as a derogatory term here.
I know a couple of people who recently have been very ill. Tested for covid and come back negative. Became ill again and no covid...again. Also, a friend of mines grandfather had apparently been on his last legs for weeks, 86 years old he is. Contracted this covid, survived and is still alive, this was April.
I don't know, it is what it is I suppose  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Every single day billions of people go out and buy food that they know nothing about, it's history, where it comes from, what standards it conforms to etc. They put these foods into their bodies without a single thought.
Now we have something from a far more regulated industry that has far more research and testing and we dig our heels in.
We are a nation who can't exist without a pub but what is alcohol? It's a poison. Cigarettes are proven to be bad for us and many times more likely to cause permanent damage to our bodies but that's an acceptable risk? I can't understand it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
The stated death is from complications due to Covid 19. So the person had Covid, which means either the vaccine didn't work or they could have been on the placebo, which would mean it was totally unrelated to their death.
For the record, if it passes clinical trials, I will take it. "
Or like myself... had covid prior to joining the trial |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Every single day billions of people go out and buy food that they know nothing about, it's history, where it comes from, what standards it conforms to etc. They put these foods into their bodies without a single thought.
Now we have something from a far more regulated industry that has far more research and testing and we dig our heels in.
We are a nation who can't exist without a pub but what is alcohol? It's a poison. Cigarettes are proven to be bad for us and many times more likely to cause permanent damage to our bodies but that's an acceptable risk? I can't understand it."
Let me help you understand...it's called personal choice.
The right to be free to make your own choices. |
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"There has never been a vaccine for the flu in the past and there won't be one in the future.
It's simple to understand that the flu evolves faster than any form of protection/immunity.
Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for fear either
There is a vaccine for many strains of flu.
We require many vaccinations for flu because it has high antigenic drift: it changes quickly.
The new corona virus (the flu isn't a corona virus) has extremely slow antigenic drift.
Fortunately every year we get two vaccines (at least?) for the flu that they predict will come in the mid year (southern hemisphere) and end of year flu seasons.
(Adding to what you're saying Lorna)
I understand there are vaccines for the flu and they have been successful. On the surface my comment is vague and without real substance. What I am trying to say is the flu is still around, different strain or not....the vaccine works and the flu evolves, the feedback loop is ascertained. What is covid? I am no expert but it has symptoms like the flu and attacks the immune system like the flu.
I am completely ill educated on the matter, and have no real grounds to have an opinion...I am just an open minded pessimist flowing through life. I just feel this particular requested vaccine is a metaphorical poisonous carrot for worried donkeys. Donkey is not referenced as a derogatory term here.
I know a couple of people who recently have been very ill. Tested for covid and come back negative. Became ill again and no covid...again. Also, a friend of mines grandfather had apparently been on his last legs for weeks, 86 years old he is. Contracted this covid, survived and is still alive, this was April.
I don't know, it is what it is I suppose "
Yes, you are uneducated, which is not an insult. It's not a flu.
Look it up. Flu is a different type of virus. Flu continues to exist because of high antigenic drift: it changes quickly. This corona virus has low antigenic drift.
Virus eradication is virtually impossible, so far we've only achieved it with smallpox. Polio, it might happen.
But we can protect ourselves and each other by slowing the spread and/ or building defence so less serious disease ensues. |
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"Every single day billions of people go out and buy food that they know nothing about, it's history, where it comes from, what standards it conforms to etc. They put these foods into their bodies without a single thought.
Now we have something from a far more regulated industry that has far more research and testing and we dig our heels in.
We are a nation who can't exist without a pub but what is alcohol? It's a poison. Cigarettes are proven to be bad for us and many times more likely to cause permanent damage to our bodies but that's an acceptable risk? I can't understand it.
Let me help you understand...it's called personal choice.
The right to be free to make your own choices."
Personal choice is not exempt from morality. One can make immoral choices. It's also not exempt from judgements about intelligence.
This isn't "I want to wear a red shirt". It's "I believe I know more than experts and am indifferent at best to the suffering of others and the continuation of a globally ruinous outbreak of disease".
You may make your choices. We may infer accordingly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Every single day billions of people go out and buy food that they know nothing about, it's history, where it comes from, what standards it conforms to etc. They put these foods into their bodies without a single thought.
Now we have something from a far more regulated industry that has far more research and testing and we dig our heels in.
We are a nation who can't exist without a pub but what is alcohol? It's a poison. Cigarettes are proven to be bad for us and many times more likely to cause permanent damage to our bodies but that's an acceptable risk? I can't understand it.
Let me help you understand...it's called personal choice.
The right to be free to make your own choices."
Freedom of choice isn't without consequences.
It's not given to us to do what we want which is sadly how many interpret it.
It's given to us in order to be able to act responsibly not selfishly.
Sadly many make a bad choice and need some help learning how to make a choice.
Many spout out about freedom of choice but don't like the heavy responsibility it comes with it.
Our freedoms are often taken away because we behave badly or display an inability to behave well. We've all used it in correcting our children and it doesn't stop when we become adults, it's used to correct and restrain.
It's false to think you can choose whatever you like to do without consequences but many want to exercise their freedom of choice without the responsibility of acknowledging and accepting the consequences that go with that choice.
NB our choices aren't really as free as we may believe either... It's bound by rational agents often not seen. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People talk about rights and forget about responsibility.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country""
Your previous comment touches on something interesting and very fundamental to choice and it's consequences, morality. With the increased liberalism and emphasis upon doing what's right for oneself first, increasingly morality takes a back seat. When this happens the ability to make good moral judgements become diminished, much like the human conscience, the more we ignore it the easier it's ignored and the less effective as a tool it becomes in help us in making choices. |
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?
You've stated something which may be true but a big lie to at the same time.
Then you ask a question completely unrelated. So I don't understand what Ur asking.
Are you asking would I take the current vaccine under trial or take it when it's been approved? Two very different vaccine stages and potentially two different vaccines.
My question is very clear - quote ‘will you take the risk once it’s been approved’ - I don’t see how this needs further explanation.
As to the quoted statement - right from the start 30.000 participants taking part, at current and last 3rd stage one man dies and two have very serious complications, it is unknown how many less serious complications happened and what they were.
I know very few people who are in 'perfect' health. Expecting every single person out of a 30 000 trial to stay in perfect health is unrealistic.
Saying that a person developed health issues because of the vaccine and saying a person on the trial having health issues are two completely different kettles of fish. From what I understand the person who died was on the placebo. But even if they weren't, it would require a full investigation to determine the facts. Information which would be confidential in nature.
What needs to be asked is if this vaccine is so dodge why aren't the other 29 997 people keeling over?
My understanding is that there are other trials going on in the US and India too... lots of people involved. "
US have stoped the trial right after this ‘accident’ happened - they pulled out. |
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By *ess37 OP Woman
over a year ago
Nantwich |
"Sorry to break up the party. It has been confirmed he was on the placebo
The 4th and 6th posts confirmed this. Unfortunately a load of covidiots can't read."
You are misinformed (as most people on here) - it has NOT been confirmed that he’s taken placebo, it’s been confirmed that there are no implications to stop the trial - a Brazilian version of mirror picked up the story, have written he’s received placebo although it has not been confirmed and then other media picked on it as well (it can’t be confirmed due to medical ‘secrecy’ ) .... it’s absolutely pointless to take part in any threads on here : ) |
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"People talk about rights and forget about responsibility.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
Your previous comment touches on something interesting and very fundamental to choice and it's consequences, morality. With the increased liberalism and emphasis upon doing what's right for oneself first, increasingly morality takes a back seat. When this happens the ability to make good moral judgements become diminished, much like the human conscience, the more we ignore it the easier it's ignored and the less effective as a tool it becomes in help us in making choices."
I consider myself a liberal and don't think morality and liberalism are necessarily in conflict. In the matter of public health my priorities shift, but everyone coming together to protect each other allows for greater freedom elsewhere.
I'm for community cohesion in order to build a solid foundation to allow the greatest freedom for *everyone*, not just the right for the privileged to go "fuck you I can do what I like". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every single day billions of people go out and buy food that they know nothing about, it's history, where it comes from, what standards it conforms to etc. They put these foods into their bodies without a single thought.
Now we have something from a far more regulated industry that has far more research and testing and we dig our heels in.
We are a nation who can't exist without a pub but what is alcohol? It's a poison. Cigarettes are proven to be bad for us and many times more likely to cause permanent damage to our bodies but that's an acceptable risk? I can't understand it.
Let me help you understand...it's called personal choice.
The right to be free to make your own choices."
Of course you are free to make your own choices.
Just as I am free to laugh at people who are precious about the vaccine but then voluntarily damage the bodies in other ways.
But yes it is your choice. It is your choice to protect a vulnerable person or to say it's their problem not yours. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"People talk about rights and forget about responsibility.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
Your previous comment touches on something interesting and very fundamental to choice and it's consequences, morality. With the increased liberalism and emphasis upon doing what's right for oneself first, increasingly morality takes a back seat. When this happens the ability to make good moral judgements become diminished, much like the human conscience, the more we ignore it the easier it's ignored and the less effective as a tool it becomes in help us in making choices.
I consider myself a liberal and don't think morality and liberalism are necessarily in conflict. In the matter of public health my priorities shift, but everyone coming together to protect each other allows for greater freedom elsewhere.
I'm for community cohesion in order to build a solid foundation to allow the greatest freedom for *everyone*, not just the right for the privileged to go "fuck you I can do what I like"."
Can't PM*
That's what a lot want to do. The way it's done is what differs. This is very simplified and not really part of this post but the big conflict that liberalism is facing is that liberalism depends crucially on the separation between the private realm — where our dissonant moralities are kept — and the public sphere — where we argue impartially (Kant) and the global internet now means personal morality no longer is left at the door but is debated in the public arena.
What we may be seeing is liberalism loosing its grip on freedom and order and fundamentalism rising in response. |
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"People talk about rights and forget about responsibility.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
Your previous comment touches on something interesting and very fundamental to choice and it's consequences, morality. With the increased liberalism and emphasis upon doing what's right for oneself first, increasingly morality takes a back seat. When this happens the ability to make good moral judgements become diminished, much like the human conscience, the more we ignore it the easier it's ignored and the less effective as a tool it becomes in help us in making choices.
I consider myself a liberal and don't think morality and liberalism are necessarily in conflict. In the matter of public health my priorities shift, but everyone coming together to protect each other allows for greater freedom elsewhere.
I'm for community cohesion in order to build a solid foundation to allow the greatest freedom for *everyone*, not just the right for the privileged to go "fuck you I can do what I like".
Can't PM*
That's what a lot want to do. The way it's done is what differs. This is very simplified and not really part of this post but the big conflict that liberalism is facing is that liberalism depends crucially on the separation between the private realm — where our dissonant moralities are kept — and the public sphere — where we argue impartially (Kant) and the global internet now means personal morality no longer is left at the door but is debated in the public arena.
What we may be seeing is liberalism loosing its grip on freedom and order and fundamentalism rising in response. "
No one can PM - my filters are on "pandemic no".
I'm not wedded to particular philosophical schools. I'm describing my own morality, as it's more or less always been. Greatest good for the greatest number, recognising individual difference/ intersectionality.
In the matter of public health, individual choice comes with greater community cost. |
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"BRAZIL'S health authority has confirmed a volunteer has died after participating in the clinical trials of the coronavirus vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.... They will not stop the trials ... Will you take the risk once it’s been ‘approved’?"
Id only take it if i had to have it to go on holiday. If im not forced to then i wont |
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