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What is the most reliable source
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
There really isnt any true source of it, but if you google covid stats you get some info there, currently it is:
Cases
40.7M
+297K
Recovered
27.8M
Deaths
1.12M
+4,028
So if you take the numbers and devide it with the world population it doesnt even register and it comes way below 1% as well. |
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"ONS"
I’ve looked at ONS recently, they like giving summaries at the top of the page that are a bit slanted or hard to comprehend - one recent summary had a huge disparity in Covid stats between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
There wasn’t really any explanation in the text, far as I could see they were either measuring two different things or maybe there was a genuine difference, in which case why.
(Not related to Covid but if you look up the ONS national debt figures they are plainly misleading, re unfunded public sector pensions etc.)
Tough to get reliable data tbh |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES! |
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"ONS
I’ve looked at ONS recently, they like giving summaries at the top of the page that are a bit slanted or hard to comprehend - one recent summary had a huge disparity in Covid stats between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
There wasn’t really any explanation in the text, far as I could see they were either measuring two different things or maybe there was a genuine difference, in which case why.
(Not related to Covid but if you look up the ONS national debt figures they are plainly misleading, re unfunded public sector pensions etc.)
Tough to get reliable data tbh"
Delve into the papers rather than the headlines and the explanations of how numbers are reached are fully given along with the caveats in place.
|
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It's only weekly, but in the first 20 minutes (give or take) of the Indie Sage broadcast on YouTube, you'll get an academic breaking down the available statistics and what this means. England bias due to availability of data.
There are numerous data sets involved and all data sets have limitations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's only weekly, but in the first 20 minutes (give or take) of the Indie Sage broadcast on YouTube, you'll get an academic breaking down the available statistics and what this means. England bias due to availability of data.
There are numerous data sets involved and all data sets have limitations."
Woooooaaa don't say YouTube, apparently there is no credible information on YouTube, so I got told off a bloke on here who is alllllllllways right, then I pointed out to him that the CDC have a YouTube channel with lots of info on covid, that shut him up  |
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"It's only weekly, but in the first 20 minutes (give or take) of the Indie Sage broadcast on YouTube, you'll get an academic breaking down the available statistics and what this means. England bias due to availability of data.
There are numerous data sets involved and all data sets have limitations.
Woooooaaa don't say YouTube, apparently there is no credible information on YouTube, so I got told off a bloke on here who is alllllllllways right, then I pointed out to him that the CDC have a YouTube channel with lots of info on covid, that shut him up "
YouTube is tricky. Anyone can post any old crap and it's rarely if ever monitored. But there's a lot of good stuff there.
The key word for my source isn't "YouTube". They're "Indie Sage" and "academic". Their credentials are clear and relevant. |
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES! "
Yes. I have noticed that too |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES! "
Rightly so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES!
Rightly so. "
I disagree, what now? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"for coronavirus statistics? "
An open but critical mind.
I've seen even the most accurate sources manipulated out of context to fit someone's closed thinking on an issue.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There really isnt any true source of it, but if you google covid stats you get some info there, currently it is:
Cases
40.7M
+297K
Recovered
27.8M
Deaths
1.12M
+4,028
So if you take the numbers and devide it with the world population it doesnt even register and it comes way below 1% as well."
Pandemic mortality rates can only be calculated at the end of a Pandemic.
A 747 hurtling to the ground with failed engines has a 0 mortality rate. Still somewhere I'd rather not be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"for coronavirus statistics?
An open but critical mind.
I've seen even the most accurate sources manipulated out of context to fit someone's closed thinking on an issue.
"
Yes, so have I, even the most 'trusted' sources, Jon hopkins, CDC, Prof Michael osterholm, all seem to contradict at some point |
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"There really isnt any true source of it, but if you google covid stats you get some info there, currently it is:
Cases
40.7M
+297K
Recovered
27.8M
Deaths
1.12M
+4,028
So if you take the numbers and devide it with the world population it doesnt even register and it comes way below 1% as well.
Pandemic mortality rates can only be calculated at the end of a Pandemic.
A 747 hurtling to the ground with failed engines has a 0 mortality rate. Still somewhere I'd rather not be."
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Data reliability depends on collection, analysis, and interpretation. Contradiction is to a degree inevitable. It's about the best - or least worst - interpretation to get at particular values. (the truth is probably a fantasy) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There really isnt any true source of it, but if you google covid stats you get some info there, currently it is:
Cases
40.7M
+297K
Recovered
27.8M
Deaths
1.12M
+4,028
So if you take the numbers and devide it with the world population it doesnt even register and it comes way below 1% as well.
Pandemic mortality rates can only be calculated at the end of a Pandemic.
A 747 hurtling to the ground with failed engines has a 0 mortality rate. Still somewhere I'd rather not be.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Data reliability depends on collection, analysis, and interpretation. Contradiction is to a degree inevitable. It's about the best - or least worst - interpretation to get at particular values. (the truth is probably a fantasy)"
The best indicator is to look at year on year average deaths and gauge the difference. According to the FT we have about 60 000 excess deaths in the UK. |
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"
The best indicator is to look at year on year average deaths and gauge the difference. According to the FT we have about 60 000 excess deaths in the UK."
Oh agreed. But people will quibble for whatever reason and finding other things is subject to interpretation. (So is everything but *shrug*) |
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"ONS
I’ve looked at ONS recently, they like giving summaries at the top of the page that are a bit slanted or hard to comprehend - one recent summary had a huge disparity in Covid stats between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
There wasn’t really any explanation in the text, far as I could see they were either measuring two different things or maybe there was a genuine difference, in which case why.
(Not related to Covid but if you look up the ONS national debt figures they are plainly misleading, re unfunded public sector pensions etc.)
Tough to get reliable data tbh
Delve into the papers rather than the headlines and the explanations of how numbers are reached are fully given along with the caveats in place.
"
I’m sure that’s right, but the front page summary should be comprehensible and consistent with the papers behind it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The best indicator is to look at year on year average deaths and gauge the difference. According to the FT we have about 60 000 excess deaths in the UK.
Oh agreed. But people will quibble for whatever reason and finding other things is subject to interpretation. (So is everything but *shrug*)"
"A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes" |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES!
Rightly so.
I disagree, what now? "
Absolutely nothing... but if you can't back it up then your opinion is next to worthless to me. Often worse than that.
Not that you should care for any reason... I daresay there are plenty of people out there who give unsubstantiated speculation more time than it's worth. |
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"
The best indicator is to look at year on year average deaths and gauge the difference. According to the FT we have about 60 000 excess deaths in the UK.
Oh agreed. But people will quibble for whatever reason and finding other things is subject to interpretation. (So is everything but *shrug*)
"A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes""
Damn truth being constrained by integrity and shit  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES!
Rightly so.
I disagree, what now?
Absolutely nothing... but if you can't back it up then your opinion is next to worthless to me. Often worse than that.
Not that you should care for any reason... I daresay there are plenty of people out there who give unsubstantiated speculation more time than it's worth."
I can back it up, but I'm not going to, the reason is that people on here are demanding answers and sources to everything,I'm not bowing to the 'demanding answers' |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES!
Rightly so.
I disagree, what now?
Absolutely nothing... but if you can't back it up then your opinion is next to worthless to me. Often worse than that.
Not that you should care for any reason... I daresay there are plenty of people out there who give unsubstantiated speculation more time than it's worth.
I can back it up, but I'm not going to, the reason is that people on here are demanding answers and sources to everything,I'm not bowing to the 'demanding answers' "
If you make some claim you should prepare to be called out on it. Put up or shut up. Don't see the point in being precious about it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tabloids, the Guardian, Facebook and the experts on here  "
You can't just comment, you have to have a reliable, credible source and to be open to certain scrutiny if you deny the 'source police', ok I'm off for my dinner |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES!
Rightly so.
I disagree, what now?
Absolutely nothing... but if you can't back it up then your opinion is next to worthless to me. Often worse than that.
Not that you should care for any reason... I daresay there are plenty of people out there who give unsubstantiated speculation more time than it's worth.
I can back it up, but I'm not going to, the reason is that people on here are demanding answers and sources to everything,I'm not bowing to the 'demanding answers'
If you make some claim you should prepare to be called out on it. Put up or shut up. Don't see the point in being precious about it."
So if im not prepared to give a source I can't comment, is that what your saying? |
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"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES!
Rightly so.
I disagree, what now?
Absolutely nothing... but if you can't back it up then your opinion is next to worthless to me. Often worse than that.
Not that you should care for any reason... I daresay there are plenty of people out there who give unsubstantiated speculation more time than it's worth.
I can back it up, but I'm not going to, the reason is that people on here are demanding answers and sources to everything,I'm not bowing to the 'demanding answers' "
Generally asking for sources is so we can quality check the claim. I don't know why that's bad  |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES!
Rightly so.
I disagree, what now?
Absolutely nothing... but if you can't back it up then your opinion is next to worthless to me. Often worse than that.
Not that you should care for any reason... I daresay there are plenty of people out there who give unsubstantiated speculation more time than it's worth.
I can back it up, but I'm not going to, the reason is that people on here are demanding answers and sources to everything,I'm not bowing to the 'demanding answers'
If you make some claim you should prepare to be called out on it. Put up or shut up. Don't see the point in being precious about it.
So if im not prepared to give a source I can't comment, is that what your saying? "
You can do what you want... but I'm saying that being asked to back up your statements is perfectly reasonable, especially if you present something as fact.
Being asked for evidence to back up your reasoning is no big deal if you've got any sensible foundation to the things which you're saying. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Make sure you have your "sources" at the ready, as some people demand answers,in other words you are lying if you don't present these people with"answers" and you are a 'tin foil wearing theorist"
SOURCES!
Rightly so.
I disagree, what now?
Absolutely nothing... but if you can't back it up then your opinion is next to worthless to me. Often worse than that.
Not that you should care for any reason... I daresay there are plenty of people out there who give unsubstantiated speculation more time than it's worth.
I can back it up, but I'm not going to, the reason is that people on here are demanding answers and sources to everything,I'm not bowing to the 'demanding answers' "
Sources are asked by those who disagree or by those who are open to learning more. If you're not willing to provide them, then you're just another part of the hidden agenda problem and those above mentioned will only overlook anything further you have to offer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Are forums a place for expressing your opinion or just a place to state facts (rightly to be backed up)...I think some forget it's equally about opinions |
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"Are forums a place for expressing your opinion or just a place to state facts (rightly to be backed up)...I think some forget it's equally about opinions"
Opinions can be stated, but opinions can be formed and stated about opinions.
If I say the moon is made of green cheese, you may think I'm foolish. I'm allowed to say it, you're allowed to dismiss it.
The more important the topic, the more important evidence is. "I like big butts" is probably something I can just say. Who cares. On another thread I've been listing facts about the virus. That matters and I'd find sources if asked (although in many cases I probably got it from a podcast from academics and I'd say so with a mea culpa) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Agreed
Just thinking of a situation where say you are talking to good friends and you express an opinion about say (the virus)...are you expected to be quoting sources and back up evidence every time you open your mouth....not very sociable is it..Probably a slight exaggeration I know, but I do sense people are just too wary of expressing their opinions |
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"Agreed
Just thinking of a situation where say you are talking to good friends and you express an opinion about say (the virus)...are you expected to be quoting sources and back up evidence every time you open your mouth....not very sociable is it..Probably a slight exaggeration I know, but I do sense people are just too wary of expressing their opinions"
With my friends? Yeah we back shit up 
Exactly what worth does an unevidenced opinion on a virus have? So I'm not picking on anyone, a common one. The corona virus is just a flu. Go ahead and Google corona virus and influenza. Are they in the same category of virus? For this purpose Wikipedia will do.
If someone can't even get that right, what worth is the rest of what spews from their mouth? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Agreed
Just thinking of a situation where say you are talking to good friends and you express an opinion about say (the virus)...are you expected to be quoting sources and back up evidence every time you open your mouth....not very sociable is it..Probably a slight exaggeration I know, but I do sense people are just too wary of expressing their opinions
With my friends? Yeah we back shit up
Exactly what worth does an unevidenced opinion on a virus have? So I'm not picking on anyone, a common one. The corona virus is just a flu. Go ahead and Google corona virus and influenza. Are they in the same category of virus? For this purpose Wikipedia will do.
If someone can't even get that right, what worth is the rest of what spews from their mouth?"
...alot of spewing going on in these forums...agreed  |
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"I get my information from our world in data .
Oxford University centre for evidence based medicine.
Professor Carl Heneghan.
Dr John Campbell."
This Week in Virology and associated podcasts.
The blogs Science Based Medicine and Respectful Insolence
Indie Sage
The government Corona virus website, occasionally ONS
LSHTM
I have selected science friends I ask more rudimentary questions |
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"Are forums a place for expressing your opinion or just a place to state facts (rightly to be backed up)...I think some forget it's equally about opinions"
You’re entitled to your own opinions. You’re not entitled to your own facts.
I welcome all opinions, genuinely, yes that’s the point of a healthy discussion forum.
But if you quote incorrect facts then its a problem. |
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"ONS
I’ve looked at ONS recently, they like giving summaries at the top of the page that are a bit slanted or hard to comprehend - one recent summary had a huge disparity in Covid stats between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
There wasn’t really any explanation in the text, far as I could see they were either measuring two different things or maybe there was a genuine difference, in which case why.
(Not related to Covid but if you look up the ONS national debt figures they are plainly misleading, re unfunded public sector pensions etc.)
Tough to get reliable data tbh"
|
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"Dave, down the pub. He's our oracle. If you buy him drinks all night, he'll tell you anything Good job your not in tier 3 then "
Dave down the pub though has had nothing else to do for the last 6 months .... he’s of reasonable intelligence and has researched his information as he hears nothing else. Why would Dave tell you lies, why would he not have an informed opinion? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Deaths is the ONLY reliable source. Not as in what was the cause of death as they have been massively manipulated. Actual death rates. This is the one statistic they cannot falsify.
And guess what! The death rate this year is slightly below the 5 year average. |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
Figures, percentages etc can make statistics seem better or worse.
As above total annual death rates will reveal more, but the last time I checked the ONS data was only complete to end of August. |
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