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Anyone know the odds
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"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " Extremely extremely small | |||
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"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Extremely extremely small " I was about to say the same as well  | |||
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"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " Between 0.5 to 1% according to the government overall average. 9% for over 80yo 5% for 70-80yo | |||
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"Come on though what's the odds? There must be a number? For instance, the chance of you dying in a motor vehicle accident is 200:1, yet you still drive. " Bet the odds are nowhere to be found , | |||
"Come on though what's the odds? There must be a number? For instance, the chance of you dying in a motor vehicle accident is 200:1, yet you still drive. " Car crashes aren't that infectious though are they? I've never seen one on the M6 and then died on the M1 4 weeks later. And then My Gran dying on the M3 because I died on the M1. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Between 0.5 to 1% according to the government overall average. 9% for over 80yo 5% for 70-80yo" Is that once you have Covid ? | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " Ask your relieve the pretend one who stroked covid or what ever you dreamed up they will tell you. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Between 0.5 to 1% according to the government overall average. 9% for over 80yo 5% for 70-80yo Is that once you have Covid ? " https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743 | |||
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"Ask that bloke in the other thread, because he seems to know EVERYTHING!! " All apart from one thing Rodney he thinks you are called Dave.  | |||
"Ask that bloke in the other thread, because he seems to know EVERYTHING!! All apart from one thing Rodney he thinks you are called Dave. "He does | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " Sars-cov2 is the virus you contract, most of the time it doesn't cause the condition covid19, most covid cases are exceptionally mild,a few cases require medical intervention,a very few require hospitalisations and a very very small minority will result in death or a yet to known much about long covid illness, neither of these are common. No virus ever infects 100% of the population, in fact if we look at previous epidemics based on respiratory illnesses with roughly the same infectiousness they usually average between 20-45% because eventually immunity builds in the population it's targeting, no species ever studied has been made extinct from a virus because immunity always occurs. There is "no evidence" that immunity will occur with this virus but that's no different than saying there's "no evidence" the sun will rise tomorrow. However based on past experiences it's safe to put a bet on that both will occur.  | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " Yes but you don't care so I'm not telling you. Try asking this question in a Covid hospital ward. | |||
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"UK covid death rates by age groups (data up to 12 Oct 20) Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54570373 0 yrs - 4 yrs old - 0.00051% 5 yrs to 14 yrs old - 0.0013% 15 yrs to 24 yrs old - 0.0043% 25 yrs to 44 yrs old - 0.031% 45 yrs to 64 yrs old - 0.29% 65 yrs to 74 yrs old - 2.2% 75 yrs old and above - 12%" So if your between 25 - 44yrs old then you odds of dying if you catch covid are approximate to roughly 1 in 3200 KJ | |||
"Come on though what's the odds? There must be a number? For instance, the chance of you dying in a motor vehicle accident is 200:1, yet you still drive. " Perfect example of why some people really shouldn't quote stats... | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " Depends on how good you are with statistics. Based on the fact that there are two possible outcomes from an infection, that would obviously make it evens   | |||
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"The w.h.o said it is not a global emergency." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51318246 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53557577 Now, your source please? | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " Just obey the restrictions and consider it a dry run for the next pandemic which might only affect people under 40 and have a 100% fatality rate. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be | |||
"The w.h.o said it is not a global emergency." the China biased organisation ? | |||
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"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be " Actually that's utter bullshit and I don't think you're stupid enough to really believe it. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " The 59,537 excess deaths counted since the outbreak began amounted to 891 deaths per million people. This was higher than any other country in Western Europe or the US. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be " My god, are people still trying to pretend this is a fact. Utter bollocks. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be Actually that's utter bullshit and I don't think you're stupid enough to really believe it." It seems a lot more people are being hit by busses this year compared to last year. Strange as you'd expect this to decrease under lockdown... | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be My god, are people still trying to pretend this is a fact. Utter bollocks." It's a fab fact. Remember fab straight? Fab facts come from pubs, Twitter and Facebook without passing "Go" or even "ogle" at the end of go. | |||
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""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic?" Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US." The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be Actually that's utter bullshit and I don't think you're stupid enough to really believe it." Firstly it was a joke but Apparently you don’t read the facts do you The figures stated for overall death numbers are sub text with “ all cause of death within 28 days of a positive Covid test” so believe what you want, that’s the way that the numbers are being reported. On other news a doctor from Manchester categorically state’s that at this point last year their ICU had more people in it than they currently do I think there are a lot of conspiracy theorists in here who just want to believe the facts that suit their narrative Read the data before you want to make stupid comments ( from the brother in law of a lead virologist in oxford) | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly." You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be Actually that's utter bullshit and I don't think you're stupid enough to really believe it. Firstly it was a joke but Apparently you don’t read the facts do you The figures stated for overall death numbers are sub text with “ all cause of death within 28 days of a positive Covid test” so believe what you want, that’s the way that the numbers are being reported. On other news a doctor from Manchester categorically state’s that at this point last year their ICU had more people in it than they currently do I think there are a lot of conspiracy theorists in here who just want to believe the facts that suit their narrative Read the data before you want to make stupid comments ( from the brother in law of a lead virologist in oxford) " Maybe I was going wrong about the stupid bit then sorry. BTW virologists don't write death certificates  | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be Actually that's utter bullshit and I don't think you're stupid enough to really believe it. Firstly it was a joke but Apparently you don’t read the facts do you The figures stated for overall death numbers are sub text with “ all cause of death within 28 days of a positive Covid test” so believe what you want, that’s the way that the numbers are being reported. On other news a doctor from Manchester categorically state’s that at this point last year their ICU had more people in it than they currently do I think there are a lot of conspiracy theorists in here who just want to believe the facts that suit their narrative Read the data before you want to make stupid comments ( from the brother in law of a lead virologist in oxford) Maybe I was going wrong about the stupid bit then sorry. BTW virologists don't write death certificates ". You are right then don’t, but neither should GP’s and it does seem that everyone is dying of Covid not flu, not cancer not heart disease, just Covid | |||
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""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data." The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19" Any credible sources for this? | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " No, do you? | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 Any credible sources for this?" Yes | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 Any credible sources for this? Yes"
I'll take that as a no | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 Any credible sources for this? Yes
I'll take that as a no"What is the motive for a body such as the CDC to inflate figures? Surely when a government performs poorly in managing a disease it's an embarrassment to that government? I can imagine governments putting pressure on the bodies they fund to water down the stats but can't envisage them wanting figures inflated... | |||
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"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107." Did they find the cure for flu ? | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? " No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. | |||
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""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19" At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place. | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place. "So it's just bad luck you are in the vulnerable group and not worth caring and protecting Very nasty point of view | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place.
So it's just bad luck you are in the vulnerable group and not worth caring and protecting
Very nasty point of view"Where did I write that?. Honestly you people need to have a lie down and stop making stuff up about people. | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place.
So it's just bad luck you are in the vulnerable group and not worth caring and protecting
Very nasty point of view"Just like with the flu then. | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place.
So it's just bad luck you are in the vulnerable group and not worth caring and protecting
Very nasty point of view"The argument that people dying were at deaths door anyway, is countered by the year on year death stats which do not typically vary wildly from year to year. We have some 60 000 excess deaths only 42 000 of which are attributed to Covid-19. Since, as already demonstrated, we have LESS flu cases because of Covid-19, this means that at least 18 000 Covid-19 deaths have been attributed to some other cause. What we are being asked to believe is that it's just coincidence that we have all these excess deaths while we have a pandemic. | |||
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""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place. "Go look up ONS august COVID death analysis it will explain how deaths are attributed to COVID and not A snapshot is :- Of the 34,750 deaths registered in August 2020 in England, 1.4% (482 deaths) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19). In Wales, 2.2% of the 2,379 deaths registered in August involved COVID-19 (52 deaths)” It further goes on to say that “a doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in the User guide to mortality statistics. In most cases (92.2% in England and 89.7% in Wales) where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be the underlying cause of death. The analysis of COVID-19 deaths in this bulletin focusses only on deaths where COVID-19 was the underlying cause (deaths “due to” COVID-19)” So the causes of death have been separated out and COVID became number 24 in the list of reasons someone died in August | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be " But chances of both are very small so mathematically the argument is flawed | |||
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"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be But chances of both are very small so mathematically the argument is flawed " The chance of dying of old age and having a positive test is not small and probably accounts for many of the deaths given the average age of those who die. | |||
"All the excess death could be cancer heart disease which haven’t been treated " It's a fair point
But I ask you to look at the curve and see when these deaths occurred.
Is it fair to say that someone who stops being treated for heart disease will die within a few weeks, but it isn't conceivable that someone with heart disease can succumb to a virus which has killed otherwise healthy people in their 20s?
It's a bit like the movie villian who gets shot and falls off a building. Did the bullet kill the villian or did the fall kill the villian? At the end of the day it was the squeezing of the trigger that did the job. | |||
"All the excess death could be cancer heart disease which haven’t been treated It's a fair point
But I ask you to look at the curve and see when these deaths occurred.
Is it fair to say that someone who stops being treated for heart disease will die within a few weeks, but it isn't conceivable that someone with heart disease can succumb to a virus which has killed otherwise healthy people in their 20s?
It's a bit like the movie villian who gets shot and falls off a building. Did the bullet kill the villian or did the fall kill the villian? At the end of the day it was the squeezing of the trigger that did the job."The number of otherwise healthy people in their 20s who died from covid is so small that it should have no place influencing government policy. | |||
"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Just obey the restrictions and consider it a dry run for the next pandemic which might only affect people under 40 and have a 100% fatality rate." Well there's an unexpected benefit to being over 40. | |||
"All the excess death could be cancer heart disease which haven’t been treated It's a fair point
But I ask you to look at the curve and see when these deaths occurred.
Is it fair to say that someone who stops being treated for heart disease will die within a few weeks, but it isn't conceivable that someone with heart disease can succumb to a virus which has killed otherwise healthy people in their 20s?
It's a bit like the movie villian who gets shot and falls off a building. Did the bullet kill the villian or did the fall kill the villian? At the end of the day it was the squeezing of the trigger that did the job."Which building? | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place.
Go look up ONS august COVID death analysis it will explain how deaths are attributed to COVID and not
A snapshot is :-
Of the 34,750 deaths registered in August 2020 in England, 1.4% (482 deaths) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19). In Wales, 2.2% of the 2,379 deaths registered in August involved COVID-19 (52 deaths)”
It further goes on to say that “a doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in the User guide to mortality statistics.
In most cases (92.2% in England and 89.7% in Wales) where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be the underlying cause of death. The analysis of COVID-19 deaths in this bulletin focusses only on deaths where COVID-19 was the underlying cause (deaths “due to” COVID-19)”
So the causes of death have been separated out and COVID became number 24 in the list of reasons someone died in August"Again your proliferating a statement that's true but false. Were currently calling ANY and ALL positive tests on PCR for sars-cov2 as covid19. There NOT the same thing. | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place.
So it's just bad luck you are in the vulnerable group and not worth caring and protecting
Very nasty point of view
The argument that people dying were at deaths door anyway, is countered by the year on year death stats which do not typically vary wildly from year to year. We have some 60 000 excess deaths only 42 000 of which are attributed to Covid-19.
Since, as already demonstrated, we have LESS flu cases because of Covid-19, this means that at least 18 000 Covid-19 deaths have been attributed to some other cause.
What we are being asked to believe is that it's just coincidence that we have all these excess deaths while we have a pandemic. "I'd like to point you to the thread by wait for it guy on excess deaths. Your not correct on your numbers. | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place.
So it's just bad luck you are in the vulnerable group and not worth caring and protecting
Very nasty point of view
The argument that people dying were at deaths door anyway, is countered by the year on year death stats which do not typically vary wildly from year to year. We have some 60 000 excess deaths only 42 000 of which are attributed to Covid-19.
Since, as already demonstrated, we have LESS flu cases because of Covid-19, this means that at least 18 000 Covid-19 deaths have been attributed to some other cause.
What we are being asked to believe is that it's just coincidence that we have all these excess deaths while we have a pandemic.
I'd like to point you to the thread by wait for it guy on excess deaths.
Your not correct on your numbers."Well thanks for telling me I'm wrong. That's so useful. Not as useful as telling me why I'm wrong. Here's a quote: Covid-19 deaths first occurred in England and Wales in early March 2020 and increased sharply thereafter, causing a surge in total deaths. There were about 58,000 excess total deaths between early March and 7 August 2020 compared with the 2015–19 average for the same period. So which numbers are wrong? | |||
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"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? " 43 000 is a number that tells you how serious rather than looking at "odds" | |||
"Come on though what's the odds? There must be a number? For instance, the chance of you dying in a motor vehicle accident is 200:1, yet you still drive. " Let's use your example with a twist. Tell me what are the odds of you dying in a vehicle accident if your d*unk? There must be a number? | |||
"UK covid death rates by age groups (data up to 12 Oct 20) Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54570373 0 yrs - 4 yrs old - 0.00051% 5 yrs to 14 yrs old - 0.0013% 15 yrs to 24 yrs old - 0.0043% 25 yrs to 44 yrs old - 0.031% 45 yrs to 64 yrs old - 0.29% 65 yrs to 74 yrs old - 2.2% 75 yrs old and above - 12% So if your between 25 - 44yrs old then you odds of dying if you catch covid are approximate to roughly 1 in 3200 KJ" If these are correct, this is still not giving a true representation as latest findings out today now show the second most vulnerable age group are younger females. | |||
"Come on though what's the odds? There must be a number? For instance, the chance of you dying in a motor vehicle accident is 200:1, yet you still drive. Let's use your example with a twist. Tell me what are the odds of you dying in a vehicle accident if your d*unk? There must be a number?" Well here's another misuse of statistics.... whilst the LIFETIME risk of dying in a car accident is 1:240, the yearly risk in the UK is 1:20 000. It's not like you will have a lifetime risk of being exposed to Covid-19. Consider the example where a 20 something year says catching covid is an acceptable risk, gets a bad dose, ends up in hospital, a nurse gets infected and dies. It's pretty easy to be brave when someone else pays the price for your recklessness. | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place.
Go look up ONS august COVID death analysis it will explain how deaths are attributed to COVID and not
A snapshot is :-
Of the 34,750 deaths registered in August 2020 in England, 1.4% (482 deaths) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19). In Wales, 2.2% of the 2,379 deaths registered in August involved COVID-19 (52 deaths)”
It further goes on to say that “a doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in the User guide to mortality statistics.
In most cases (92.2% in England and 89.7% in Wales) where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be the underlying cause of death. The analysis of COVID-19 deaths in this bulletin focusses only on deaths where COVID-19 was the underlying cause (deaths “due to” COVID-19)”
So the causes of death have been separated out and COVID became number 24 in the list of reasons someone died in August
Again your proliferating a statement that's true but false.
Were currently calling ANY and ALL positive tests on PCR for sars-cov2 as covid19.
There NOT the same thing.
"I know they aren’t the same thing. I can’t comment on cov2, I’ve seen no information on what the tests are specifically looking for - research time Until then the above is what I will stick by on how we are measuring Covid deaths as the reason why someone passes away | |||
""Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%)" - cdc.gov So despite the fact that around the world we are seeing a phenomenal drop in flu cases, excess year on year deaths are being attributed to flu? Despite the fact that the oil price went negative due to vehicle inactivity we can still pin more deaths on traffic accidents than normal times? Anyone care to explain this logic? Where are your traffic accident stats from? The 2019 stats are still provisional as far i can see. There is an obvious reason why there is a drop in flu cases. Social distancing, increased hygiene and increased mask wearing. As you stated above in the US testing is done and they are not finding influenza which means the drop is real at least in the US. The reason flu deaths are low is that the people who would be dying of flu are dying of covid. They both affect the elderly. You maybe right but they are not catching flu at all. There is very little flu around according to the US testing data. The CDC in the US admitted adding flu and pneumonia with covid deaths, 54,000 deaths drop to 11,000,they lied about 43,000 deaths, however later........ "We're not combining pneumonia deaths with COVID-19 deaths," NCHS Chief of Mortality Statistics Bob Anderson told AFP over the phone. He clarified that while people can die of pneumonia they developed because of COVID-19, and both illnesses would be noted on their death certificate, their deaths are only counted once, as COVID-19 At the moment we're counting a positive test result for sars-cov2 as a covid19 death, this is the first mistake many coroner's are reporting on, just like having hiv doesn't mean you have aids you wouldn't count a heart attack by somebody with HIV to be put down as the death to be the result of aids, not everybody who has HIV has aids and not everybody who has sars-cov2 has covid19. Then there's mitigating factors, he/she had clinically diagnosed covid19 but was on deaths door from other illnesses. Then there's the he/she was just very old and fucked, probably had another year or so but sadly there deaths were brought forward by covid19. Then there's generally unwell people who sadly for the several underlying illness were unable even with good medical intervention to survive from diagnosed covid19. Then there's the outliers, in the UK something like 600 people out of the tens of millions of cases who were not old, not generally unwell and yet still tragically died from covid19. So pick the category your in and do the maths. But before you do remember in nearly all epidemics only around half the population ever catch it in the first place.
Go look up ONS august COVID death analysis it will explain how deaths are attributed to COVID and not
A snapshot is :-
Of the 34,750 deaths registered in August 2020 in England, 1.4% (482 deaths) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19). In Wales, 2.2% of the 2,379 deaths registered in August involved COVID-19 (52 deaths)”
It further goes on to say that “a doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in the User guide to mortality statistics.
In most cases (92.2% in England and 89.7% in Wales) where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, it was found to be the underlying cause of death. The analysis of COVID-19 deaths in this bulletin focusses only on deaths where COVID-19 was the underlying cause (deaths “due to” COVID-19)”
So the causes of death have been separated out and COVID became number 24 in the list of reasons someone died in August
Again your proliferating a statement that's true but false.
Were currently calling ANY and ALL positive tests on PCR for sars-cov2 as covid19.
There NOT the same thing.
I know they aren’t the same thing.
I can’t comment on cov2, I’ve seen no information on what the tests are specifically looking for - research time
Until then the above is what I will stick by on how we are measuring Covid deaths as the reason why someone passes away "Again my point still stands, it's not covid 19 in many cases, 60% of cases of sars-cov2 don't result in any form of covid19. Accuracy is important and I'd prefer it if the figures showed diagnosed covid19 and not PCR sars-cov2 positive. | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu." And the common cold..? | |||
"Come on though what's the odds? There must be a number? For instance, the chance of you dying in a motor vehicle accident is 200:1, yet you still drive. Car crashes aren't that infectious though are they? I've never seen one on the M6 and then died on the M1 4 weeks later. And then My Gran dying on the M3 because I died on the M1." Depends on how you want to define infectious. It's quite common for one accident to happen and another vehicle plough into it, while people on the other side of the road slow down to look and have another accident of their own. | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..?" Yes the same social and hygiene measures would prevent the spread of the common cold. | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..?" Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. " Who mentioned dying from the common cold. The top quote stated the same measures to prevent covid19 also help to prevent flu..I also added logically also the same measures help stop the common cold.. I fail to see the point of that remark.Flippancy or patronising? | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. Who mentioned dying from the common cold. The top quote stated the same measures to prevent covid19 also help to prevent flu..I also added logically also the same measures help stop the common cold.. I fail to see the point of that remark.Flippancy or patronising? " Well this is a thread on the odds of dying from Covid-19. The topic of other infections not occurring was applicable to their effect on death stats. So that's where I'm coming from. Neither flippant nor patronising. Just on topic. Sorry if you were just throwing that into the ring, mistook your meaning | |||
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"Depends if you still do the lottery and expect to win" Did more than a million people win the lottery this year? | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. " Plenty of old folks die from the common cold (four of them are Corona viruses) the virus leads to other infections like pneumonia, common colds are counted with respiratory infections which go up up up in the winter. | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. Plenty of old folks die from the common cold (four of them are Corona viruses) the virus leads to other infections like pneumonia, common colds are counted with respiratory infections which go up up up in the winter." Ok how many people die from the common cold, and common cold alone, each year? | |||
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"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. " I think annual flu deaths is circa 10k in the U.K. | |||
"There’s one thing to also build into this very focused view: What are your chances of dying of covid-19 without medical assistance? Don’t forget we are using measures to (protect life) but in reality that means not being overwhelmed with patients. At the start of this pandemic we where losing 50% of hospital admissions, that’s come down to around 5% now but the space, time and attention those patients need to pull through can be monumental. On average 5-6 weeks before being discharged. We have 7,500 (approx) currently in hospital, without care all would die. We’ve treated around 160,000 in total now. " I am not sure you can say all would die if they didn't receive medical attention... But I would say that the death rate would increase significantly. | |||
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"Non existent. This virus is no worse than the flu. It's a scare tactic to keep the common people under control. " Blah blah blah, "insert daily conspiracy theory bollocks here" | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. Plenty of old folks die from the common cold (four of them are Corona viruses) the virus leads to other infections like pneumonia, common colds are counted with respiratory infections which go up up up in the winter. Ok how many people die from the common cold, and common cold alone, each year?" The question should be 'how many die with a common cold each year?'. | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. I think annual flu deaths is circa 10k in the U.K. " Sorry this is in reference to an early post concerning cdc figures for the US. But same applies here. If Covid-19 stats are officially circa 44 000 then how are flu deaths being used to inflate Covid-19 death data? | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. Plenty of old folks die from the common cold (four of them are Corona viruses) the virus leads to other infections like pneumonia, common colds are counted with respiratory infections which go up up up in the winter. Ok how many people die from the common cold, and common cold alone, each year? The question should be 'how many die with a common cold each year?'." That was my point, is anybody testing for the other four Corona viruses at death!, Or rinoviruses or HIV or hepatitis or measles, no obviously not because a doctor diagnosis a condition first then tests for a virus. What were doing when counting deaths is testing for the virus and then assuming they have a disease called covid19, which we know many many people never develop despite being exposed to the virus. | |||
" The question should be 'how many die with a common cold each year?'. That was my point, is anybody testing for the other four Corona viruses at death!, Or rinoviruses or HIV or hepatitis or measles, no obviously not because a doctor diagnosis a condition first then tests for a virus. What were doing when counting deaths is testing for the virus and then assuming they have a disease called covid19, which we know many many people never develop despite being exposed to the virus." Has it not occurred to you that those who die of Covid-19 are relatively simple to diagnose? Testing is done often on a daily basis when patients are critical to check the diseases progress and the patients immune response, usually that’s done by drawing fluid from the lungs. This whole “let’s dumb down the figures” approach Is ridiculous, the reality is we almost certainly have a lot more covid-19 deaths than are published, perhaps up to an additional 20k if you look at surplus deaths for this year. | |||
"Just to put things in perspective. In August 2019 there were 61000 cases of flu in Australia. In August 2020, there were 107. Did they find the cure for flu ? No. The same measures that prevent the spread of Covid-19 also prevent the spread of flu. And the common cold..? Not too many people dying of the common cold. The issue is that people are claiming that flu deaths are being integrated into the Covid-19 data. But how does the yearly 22 000 deaths from flu get used to create over 40 000 Covid-19 deaths? Subtract from that the number of attributed flu deaths. Subtract again the decrease in flu cases because of Covid-19 measures and it just isn't possible. Plenty of old folks die from the common cold (four of them are Corona viruses) the virus leads to other infections like pneumonia, common colds are counted with respiratory infections which go up up up in the winter. Ok how many people die from the common cold, and common cold alone, each year? The question should be 'how many die with a common cold each year?'." Why? | |||
" The question should be 'how many die with a common cold each year?'. That was my point, is anybody testing for the other four Corona viruses at death!, Or rinoviruses or HIV or hepatitis or measles, no obviously not because a doctor diagnosis a condition first then tests for a virus. What were doing when counting deaths is testing for the virus and then assuming they have a disease called covid19, which we know many many people never develop despite being exposed to the virus. Has it not occurred to you that those who die of Covid-19 are relatively simple to diagnose? Testing is done often on a daily basis when patients are critical to check the diseases progress and the patients immune response, usually that’s done by drawing fluid from the lungs. This whole “let’s dumb down the figures” approach Is ridiculous, the reality is we almost certainly have a lot more covid-19 deaths than are published, perhaps up to an additional 20k if you look at surplus deaths for this year." But this government has decided that just a simple PCR positive test for sars-cov2 constitutes as a covid19 death!. | |||
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"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done. "If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured. It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator. | |||
"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator. "If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result. Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for. | |||
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"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator.
If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result.
Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for."So a person who tests positive for Covid-19 but dies in a car accident gets added to the Covid-19 stats. Take a person with pneumonia who contracts Covid-19 and succumbs. Without the pneumonia the person might have survived Covid-19, but without Covid-19 the person might have survived pneumonia. | |||
"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator.
If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result.
Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for."For example 20k? Instead of postulating this data, refer you to an exhaustive study published on the lancet which tabulates the expected excess deaths for each form of cancer on a cumulative basis under different scenarios. Their methodology etc is explained in meticulous detail. The numbers they are talking about are in the low double digits so 20k is a hypothetical stretch. See "The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on cancer deaths due to delays in diagnosis in England, UK: a national, population-based, modelling study" - lancet | |||
"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator.
If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result.
Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for.
So a person who tests positive for Covid-19 but dies in a car accident gets added to the Covid-19 stats.
Take a person with pneumonia who contracts Covid-19 and succumbs. Without the pneumonia the person might have survived Covid-19, but without Covid-19 the person might have survived pneumonia. "People aren't tested for covid19 though that's my whole point, there tested for the virus sars-cov2, the disease covid19 is a diagnosis from a health professional that may require other tests. | |||
"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator.
If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result.
Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for."What we should be going for is proper funding of the NHS. Underinnvestment over the last 10 years is simply criminal | |||
"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator.
If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result.
Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for.
For example 20k?
Instead of postulating this data, refer you to an exhaustive study published on the lancet which tabulates the expected excess deaths for each form of cancer on a cumulative basis under different scenarios. Their methodology etc is explained in meticulous detail.
The numbers they are talking about are in the low double digits so 20k is a hypothetical stretch.
See "The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on cancer deaths due to delays in diagnosis in England, UK: a national, population-based, modelling study" - lancet"That was an eg yes for the purpose of explaining excess deaths, of course cancer isn't the only excess deaths we'll see from a health service running at half speed and a population unwilling to visit until it's maybe to late,I just used cancer as it's one of the big killers, I could have used sepsis, heart disease, suicides, missed appointments, delayed surgery. Once we're this far down the path excess deaths come in numerous forms and cannot be just put down to covid19. | |||
"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator.
If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result.
Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for.
What we should be going for is proper funding of the NHS.
Underinnvestment over the last 10 years is simply criminal "That doesn't really apply here and probably for a different thread. | |||
"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator.
If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result.
Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for.
For example 20k?
Instead of postulating this data, refer you to an exhaustive study published on the lancet which tabulates the expected excess deaths for each form of cancer on a cumulative basis under different scenarios. Their methodology etc is explained in meticulous detail.
The numbers they are talking about are in the low double digits so 20k is a hypothetical stretch.
See "The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on cancer deaths due to delays in diagnosis in England, UK: a national, population-based, modelling study" - lancet
That was an eg yes for the purpose of explaining excess deaths, of course cancer isn't the only excess deaths we'll see from a health service running at half speed and a population unwilling to visit until it's maybe to late,I just used cancer as it's one of the big killers, I could have used sepsis, heart disease, suicides, missed appointments, delayed surgery.
Once we're this far down the path excess deaths come in numerous forms and cannot be just put down to covid19."I get that. But in the first months of the pandemic all of these things had yet to take effect. The lancet is looking at the effect over 5 years. There is no data for those few months because a late diagnosis in March doesn’t necessarily translate into a fatality in April. Most of these fatalities will occur outside of the period when excess deaths were recorded and therefore have a negligible effect on fudging the excess deaths for those few early months. | |||
"Plus excess death worked ok at the beginning but it's not accurate after 9 months of a health service running at half speed, even PHE admit were now seeing excess deaths from those measures alone. We need good measurements of who and how many are dying from covid19 and a positive test for Sars-cov2 isn't very accurate, a double diagnosis from two health professionals or a coroner's autopsy should be done.
If you look at the official curve that's when most of the fatalities occured.
It is very subjective to determine COD when there are multiple conditions. Comparing a month to other months in previous years is more of an indicator.
If for example 20k a year are now dying extra from cancer due to a health service running at half speed then no month by month or year by year tells us nothing about how many people are dying from covid19 and neither really does a sars-cov2 positive test result.
Double diagnosis and coroner's report is what we should be going for.
For example 20k?
Instead of postulating this data, refer you to an exhaustive study published on the lancet which tabulates the expected excess deaths for each form of cancer on a cumulative basis under different scenarios. Their methodology etc is explained in meticulous detail.
The numbers they are talking about are in the low double digits so 20k is a hypothetical stretch.
See "The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on cancer deaths due to delays in diagnosis in England, UK: a national, population-based, modelling study" - lancet
That was an eg yes for the purpose of explaining excess deaths, of course cancer isn't the only excess deaths we'll see from a health service running at half speed and a population unwilling to visit until it's maybe to late,I just used cancer as it's one of the big killers, I could have used sepsis, heart disease, suicides, missed appointments, delayed surgery.
Once we're this far down the path excess deaths come in numerous forms and cannot be just put down to covid19.
I get that. But in the first months of the pandemic all of these things had yet to take effect. The lancet is looking at the effect over 5 years. There is no data for those few months because a late diagnosis in March doesn’t necessarily translate into a fatality in April. Most of these fatalities will occur outside of the period when excess deaths were recorded and therefore have a negligible effect on fudging the excess deaths for those few early months."Oh yes I wasn't arguing that excess deaths was a reasonable way to look at covid19 deaths early on, I'm talking about now. We need a good data set on covid19 deaths and diagnosis and coroner's would be I think the best route to go down now. The PCR sars-cov2 test should still be done so we can get a data set on prevalence to actual covid19. | |||
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"The chance of dying if you catch it is 1 in 400 but that includes the elderly. If you are under 70 the chance is 1 in 2000." So why are people soo worried about it when the chances are higher that they'll die when behind the wheel? Just look at the threads on here alone! People terrified of a disease they might not even know they have, when there's a higher chance of them killing their loved ones driving them to Tesco.. | |||
"The chance of dying if you catch it is 1 in 400 but that includes the elderly. If you are under 70 the chance is 1 in 2000. So why are people soo worried about it when the chances are higher that they'll die when behind the wheel? Just look at the threads on here alone! People terrified of a disease they might not even know they have, when there's a higher chance of them killing their loved ones driving them to Tesco.." What are the chances of dying ‘behind the wheel’ ? | |||
"The chance of dying if you catch it is 1 in 400 but that includes the elderly. If you are under 70 the chance is 1 in 2000. So why are people soo worried about it when the chances are higher that they'll die when behind the wheel? Just look at the threads on here alone! People terrified of a disease they might not even know they have, when there's a higher chance of them killing their loved ones driving them to Tesco.. What are the chances of dying ‘behind the wheel’ ? " In 2019 1870 people died in car crashes in the UK over a 12 month period. 44 571 people have officially lost their lives to covid. | |||
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"Of dying as a result of contracting covid? Right now, if you get hit by a bus having had a positive test within 28 days then you die of Covid So a lot higher than it really should be " Right now if you get Covid but survive on a ventilator for 29 days and then die then officially you didn’t die of Covid.. On average less than 2 pedestrians per day a killed in collisions with any sort of vehicle, this obsession with bus deaths significantly affecting Covid statistics is beyond me | |||
"The chance of dying if you catch it is 1 in 400 but that includes the elderly. If you are under 70 the chance is 1 in 2000. So why are people soo worried about it when the chances are higher that they'll die when behind the wheel? Just look at the threads on here alone! People terrified of a disease they might not even know they have, when there's a higher chance of them killing their loved ones driving them to Tesco.." Just how many people have died driving to tesco then ? That is a really interesting and valuable statisic. I'll go out on a limb here and say it's pretty low. | |||
"Btw that's WITH restrictions, social distancing etc. All these arguments actually support measures. OP you question should be "What would the odds be if there were no restrictions" For people over 70 that's 14% to 22% mortality for anyone infected." If there were no restrictions the numbers infected would increase faster but the mortality rate from being infected would not alter dramatically... initially.. once the numbers overwhelm the capacity to provide treatment mortality rate would be expected to shoot up and up. | |||
"The chance of dying if you catch it is 1 in 400 but that includes the elderly. If you are under 70 the chance is 1 in 2000. So why are people soo worried about it when the chances are higher that they'll die when behind the wheel? Just look at the threads on here alone! People terrified of a disease they might not even know they have, when there's a higher chance of them killing their loved ones driving them to Tesco.. Just how many people have died driving to tesco then ? That is a really interesting and valuable statisic. I'll go out on a limb here and say it's pretty low." Well this is fab. You can make up any fact and when it gets blown out the water go quiet and then come up with a new made up fact s few days later. A good example is mortality rate. People keep quoting how low it is. Well look how its calculated... total deaths in the entire population. Well not everyone in the entire country has been infected yet. So what is this stat at this stage? It tells you how many people who have never been infected have died from COVID-19!!! Wow now there's a guage for how deadly a vurus is....
Looking at CFR for Mexico...
874,171 recorded infections.
87,415 deaths.
CFR 10.0% | |||
"The chance of dying if you catch it is 1 in 400 but that includes the elderly. If you are under 70 the chance is 1 in 2000. So why are people soo worried about it when the chances are higher that they'll die when behind the wheel? Just look at the threads on here alone! People terrified of a disease they might not even know they have, when there's a higher chance of them killing their loved ones driving them to Tesco.. Just how many people have died driving to tesco then ? That is a really interesting and valuable statisic. I'll go out on a limb here and say it's pretty low. Well this is fab. You can make up any fact and when it gets blown out the water go quiet and then come up with a new made up fact s few days later. A good example is mortality rate. People keep quoting how low it is. Well look how its calculated... total deaths in the entire population. Well not everyone in the entire country has been infected yet. So what is this stat at this stage? It tells you how many people who have never been infected have died from COVID-19!!! Wow now there's a guage for how deadly a vurus is....
Looking at CFR for Mexico...
874,171 recorded infections.
87,415 deaths.
CFR 10.0%"You're right of course, and some have a very good track record for "new" stats ignoring the truth. Still, it seems to amuse them. | |||
"Btw that's WITH restrictions, social distancing etc. All these arguments actually support measures. OP you question should be "What would the odds be if there were no restrictions" For people over 70 that's 14% to 22% mortality for anyone infected. If there were no restrictions the numbers infected would increase faster but the mortality rate from being infected would not alter dramatically... initially.. once the numbers overwhelm the capacity to provide treatment mortality rate would be expected to shoot up and up." Absolutely
We saw that in Northern Italy. Doctors were reporting that they were in a triage situation. Some people were just left to die. It was an incredibly sad and desperate situation. I can't believe there's people saying "bring it on!" | |||
"The chance of dying if you catch it is 1 in 400 but that includes the elderly. If you are under 70 the chance is 1 in 2000. So why are people soo worried about it when the chances are higher that they'll die when behind the wheel? Just look at the threads on here alone! People terrified of a disease they might not even know they have, when there's a higher chance of them killing their loved ones driving them to Tesco.. Just how many people have died driving to tesco then ? That is a really interesting and valuable statisic. I'll go out on a limb here and say it's pretty low. Well this is fab. You can make up any fact and when it gets blown out the water go quiet and then come up with a new made up fact s few days later. A good example is mortality rate. People keep quoting how low it is. Well look how its calculated... total deaths in the entire population. Well not everyone in the entire country has been infected yet. So what is this stat at this stage? It tells you how many people who have never been infected have died from COVID-19!!! Wow now there's a guage for how deadly a vurus is....
Looking at CFR for Mexico...
874,171 recorded infections.
87,415 deaths.
CFR 10.0%
You're right of course, and some have a very good track record for "new" stats ignoring the truth. Still, it seems to amuse them."Vietnam. 95.54 million inhabitants. 35 deaths. Coronavirus: How 'overreaction' made Vietnam a virus success - BBC News - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52628283 | |||
