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Manchester resisting tier 3
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"Tier 3 not been applied so no laws broken. Both Richard Leese and Andy Burnham have said if tier 3 is imposed from above, they would have to comply. Once again, no law broken." If they don't get their act together it will be imposed later today or tomorrow | |||
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"Tier 3 not been applied so no laws broken. Both Richard Leese and Andy Burnham have said if tier 3 is imposed from above, they would have to comply. Once again, no law broken. If they don't get their act together it will be imposed later today or tomorrow" I agree, Westminster should get its act together. | |||
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"Could someone knowledgeable please explain how it's possible for an area of the country to not accept laws and guidelines and that they are given? I'm not saying it's wrong that they haven't, as I really don't know all the ins and outs but I would have thought that if they are told that's what they have to do, then that is the end of it, I wouldn't have thought different parts of the country could reject different tiers of lockdown, regardless of whether they are objecting for financial or any other reason." Because we are supposed to be living in something resembling a democracy? | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying." Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others?" What caused your rates to rocket due to being in tier 2? | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying." Burnham is not an MP, the people who elected him may in due course hold him to account although at present he has their support as well as the MPs.. | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things." Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3. | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? What caused your rates to rocket due to being in tier 2?" Not a clue, or, a variety of factors. But what's now tier 2 is what Manchester was given at the end of July. What evidence is there that the tier system works? The experts have told Manchester it might not. How will we stop the lowest paid people stopped from working from plunging into poverty? Why is this being imposed unevenly? Why can't the government stop pissing money up the wall of their mates and let people feed themselves if they're not allowed to work? | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3." He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance  | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Burnham is not an MP, the people who elected him may in due course hold him to account although at present he has their support as well as the MPs.." They all support him? | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3." He is asking for the same amount of support that Lancashire got. | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Burnham is not an MP, the people who elected him may in due course hold him to account although at present he has their support as well as the MPs.. They all support him?" Burnham's popularity has shot up in Manchester. Elections aren't for awhile Would the voting public still vote BoJo the clown et al back in? | |||
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" What caused your rates to rocket due to being in tier 2?" Schools and colleges going back and 100,000 students moving into shared accommodation ? | |||
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"I wonder how many have to die before common seance takes place. "Well it wont be another 4 years to have another election. | |||
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" What caused your rates to rocket due to being in tier 2? Schools and colleges going back and 100,000 students moving into shared accommodation ?" Nah cant see that having an impact. | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Burnham is not an MP, the people who elected him may in due course hold him to account although at present he has their support as well as the MPs.. They all support him?" In the last ten or so days there's not been one reported who disagrees with him and you can bet that certain papers Torygraph etc will have been all over that aspect.. | |||
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" What caused your rates to rocket due to being in tier 2? Schools and colleges going back and 100,000 students moving into shared accommodation ?" 
National restrictions being eased to suit London suppression rates but not others
Overcrowding and deprivation.
Not doing enough to reach out to the deprived communities more likely to be harmed.
Not giving support for isolation or enforcing it.
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Let's not make this a story about naughty northerners not listening to their rational sensible southern superiors, because it's crap. | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Burnham is not an MP, the people who elected him may in due course hold him to account although at present he has their support as well as the MPs.. They all support him? In the last ten or so days there's not been one reported who disagrees with him and you can bet that certain papers Torygraph etc will have been all over that aspect.." Well he has a point. I mean every single person in the country supports boris. | |||
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" What caused your rates to rocket due to being in tier 2? Schools and colleges going back and 100,000 students moving into shared accommodation ?
National restrictions being eased to suit London suppression rates but not others
Overcrowding and deprivation.
Not doing enough to reach out to the deprived communities more likely to be harmed.
Not giving support for isolation or enforcing it.
--
Let's not make this a story about naughty northerners not listening to their rational sensible southern superiors, because it's crap." | |||
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"I wonder how many have to die before common seance takes place. "Or the elected representatives in Westminster look around at the other nations, take a moment to look analytically at what sage have advised about the effectiveness of the tier system and possibly change the plan.. It all looks a bit entrenched at the moment, the government have mucked up on some aspects of this which they are now looking to quietly change.. It's like they are more concerned about how it looks they are doing than how they are actually doing.. And we are in the middle.. | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others?" If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... | |||
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"I wonder how many have to die before common seance takes place.
Or the elected representatives in Westminster look around at the other nations, take a moment to look analytically at what sage have advised about the effectiveness of the tier system and possibly change the plan..
It all looks a bit entrenched at the moment, the government have mucked up on some aspects of this which they are now looking to quietly change..
It's like they are more concerned about how it looks they are doing than how they are actually doing..
And we are in the middle.."I think they have looked at other nations a lot of countries in Europe have local lockdowns.France,Germany,Italy and spain to name a few i guess they are all wrong too and KS is the only one who is right. | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3. He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance "That's all relative and if they're getting any support then that's better than nothing. You're talking to someone here who didn't earn anything for over 4 months in lockdown, didn't get a penny from the government when everyone else was getting 80% as I was self employed. I sold most of tools, my van and motorbike to pay rent and bills. Then when government decided that they had sacrificed the self-employed and decide to offer them something I found out fell through the net and I couldn't receive any help, I'd lost my business and any assets by then. I had food parcels delivered and a daughter who is front line has helped. I could go on but it's embarrassing, so I understand many of the difficulties better the man most on here. | |||
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" He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance
That's all relative and if they're getting any support then that's better than nothing.
You're talking to someone here who didn't earn anything for over 4 months in lockdown, didn't get a penny from the government when everyone else was getting 80% as I was self employed. I sold most of tools, my van and motorbike to pay rent and bills. Then when government decided that they had sacrificed the self-employed and decide to offer them something I found out fell through the net and I couldn't receive any help, I'd lost my business and any assets by then. I had food parcels delivered and a daughter who is front line has helped. I could go on but it's embarrassing, so I understand many of the difficulties better the man most on here."And that's appalling and shouldn't have happened either. The government should piss less money up the wall at their mates and help its citizens survive. And get a system that works for the love of God. | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... " I agree and Unis, have been saying they should not have returned in August/sept, but the government need then open so that people could get back to work, but we opened up too quickly. | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3. He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance
That's all relative and if they're getting any support then that's better than nothing.
You're talking to someone here who didn't earn anything for over 4 months in lockdown, didn't get a penny from the government when everyone else was getting 80% as I was self employed. I sold most of tools, my van and motorbike to pay rent and bills. Then when government decided that they had sacrificed the self-employed and decide to offer them something I found out fell through the net and I couldn't receive any help, I'd lost my business and any assets by then. I had food parcels delivered and a daughter who is front line has helped. I could go on but it's embarrassing, so I understand many of the difficulties better the man most on here."Everyone else didnt get 80% Self employed people got a raw deal People on zero hour contracts got a raw deal People with their own business got a raw deal. The solution to that isnt to let everyone else get a raw deal | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... I agree and Unis, have been saying they should not have returned in August/sept, but the government need then open so that people could get back to work, but we opened up too quickly. " The government should have done whatever it took to get the rates down. Rather than stop start mess and it's the poor who will pay. | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... I agree and Unis, have been saying they should not have returned in August/sept, but the government need then open so that people could get back to work, but we opened up too quickly. The government should have done whatever it took to get the rates down. Rather than stop start mess and it's the poor who will pay." What exactly should they have done ? | |||
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"Most of Greater Manchester has been under degrees of stricter lockdown for months anyway. Bolton for example had all pubs and restaurants closed and then they just forgot to say they could reopen. Rates doubled in that time. This proposed lockdown trashes businesses and plunges people into poverty without achieving better health outcomes. Hospital admissions are as expected for this time of year. Rates are heading down not up anyway as the initial student boom in rates dies down. You won't find many who support Tier 3 lockdown here, not on any side of the political spectrum. Because it is a pile of crap On the other hand, as per your first post, noone is breaking the law or refusing to implement a law. "
I'm in Manchester city, and we've been on effectively tier 2 since the end of July.
I saw the BBC trying to whip up sympathies for London moving into tier 2 as this standoff began. Yes poor London it's terrible and confusing, laugh the Mancunians who've been told to suck it up and deal for months | |||
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"Andy Burnham has been engaged with the evidence. He's appeared asking questions on at least one Indie Sage. It seems to me he's at least trying to do right by Manchester, both infection rates down and stop people from starving. The spin on this is unbelievable. " | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3. He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance
That's all relative and if they're getting any support then that's better than nothing.
You're talking to someone here who didn't earn anything for over 4 months in lockdown, didn't get a penny from the government when everyone else was getting 80% as I was self employed. I sold most of tools, my van and motorbike to pay rent and bills. Then when government decided that they had sacrificed the self-employed and decide to offer them something I found out fell through the net and I couldn't receive any help, I'd lost my business and any assets by then. I had food parcels delivered and a daughter who is front line has helped. I could go on but it's embarrassing, so I understand many of the difficulties better the man most on here.
Everyone else didnt get 80%
Self employed people got a raw deal
People on zero hour contracts got a raw deal
People with their own business got a raw deal.
The solution to that isnt to let everyone else get a raw deal
"I know all that, I'm self-employed. But most employed did. Many businesses also screwed the system over by fudging a fexi furlough and paid their workers extra if they came in to work but stayed furloughed. Government workers all got 100% while furloughed. | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... I agree and Unis, have been saying they should not have returned in August/sept, but the government need then open so that people could get back to work, but we opened up too quickly. The government should have done whatever it took to get the rates down. Rather than stop start mess and it's the poor who will pay.What exactly should they have done ?" Held back reopening non essential businesses until it was safe for all parts of England. Get an effective track and trace. Make sure communities understood. University teaching online. Keep people working from home. Better guidelines, spacing, and funding for schools. Clear honest engagement with people. Stop pissing money at their mates. For starters. | |||
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"Andy Burnham has been engaged with the evidence. He's appeared asking questions on at least one Indie Sage. It seems to me he's at least trying to do right by Manchester, both infection rates down and stop people from starving. The spin on this is unbelievable. " When boris imposed the tier in Lancashire..he walked out without asking any questions. He also didn't realise Wigan was in Lancashire and therefore the likes of lisa mandy were not invited. It therefore makes perfect sense to lay the burden of blame onto andy Burnham. | |||
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"Most of Greater Manchester has been under degrees of stricter lockdown for months anyway. Bolton for example had all pubs and restaurants closed and then they just forgot to say they could reopen. Rates doubled in that time. This proposed lockdown trashes businesses and plunges people into poverty without achieving better health outcomes. Hospital admissions are as expected for this time of year. Rates are heading down not up anyway as the initial student boom in rates dies down. You won't find many who support Tier 3 lockdown here, not on any side of the political spectrum. Because it is a pile of crap On the other hand, as per your first post, noone is breaking the law or refusing to implement a law.
I'm in Manchester city, and we've been on effectively tier 2 since the end of July.
I saw the BBC trying to whip up sympathies for London moving into tier 2 as this standoff began. Yes poor London it's terrible and confusing, laugh the Mancunians who've been told to suck it up and deal for months "Who in London is laughing at mancunians? | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3. He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance
That's all relative and if they're getting any support then that's better than nothing.
You're talking to someone here who didn't earn anything for over 4 months in lockdown, didn't get a penny from the government when everyone else was getting 80% as I was self employed. I sold most of tools, my van and motorbike to pay rent and bills. Then when government decided that they had sacrificed the self-employed and decide to offer them something I found out fell through the net and I couldn't receive any help, I'd lost my business and any assets by then. I had food parcels delivered and a daughter who is front line has helped. I could go on but it's embarrassing, so I understand many of the difficulties better the man most on here.
Everyone else didnt get 80%
Self employed people got a raw deal
People on zero hour contracts got a raw deal
People with their own business got a raw deal.
The solution to that isnt to let everyone else get a raw deal
I know all that, I'm self-employed.
But most employed did. Many businesses also screwed the system over by fudging a fexi furlough and paid their workers extra if they came in to work but stayed furloughed. Government workers all got 100% while furloughed."S'funny no one told me as I worked all the way through. Why is the answer to the gmnt treating 1 group of people badly..is to make us all treated badly? | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... I agree and Unis, have been saying they should not have returned in August/sept, but the government need then open so that people could get back to work, but we opened up too quickly. The government should have done whatever it took to get the rates down. Rather than stop start mess and it's the poor who will pay.What exactly should they have done ?" Not sending 100,000 of students back would have been a start. | |||
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"Most of Greater Manchester has been under degrees of stricter lockdown for months anyway. Bolton for example had all pubs and restaurants closed and then they just forgot to say they could reopen. Rates doubled in that time. This proposed lockdown trashes businesses and plunges people into poverty without achieving better health outcomes. Hospital admissions are as expected for this time of year. Rates are heading down not up anyway as the initial student boom in rates dies down. You won't find many who support Tier 3 lockdown here, not on any side of the political spectrum. Because it is a pile of crap On the other hand, as per your first post, noone is breaking the law or refusing to implement a law.
I'm in Manchester city, and we've been on effectively tier 2 since the end of July.
I saw the BBC trying to whip up sympathies for London moving into tier 2 as this standoff began. Yes poor London it's terrible and confusing, laugh the Mancunians who've been told to suck it up and deal for months Who in London is laughing at mancunians? "I remember July and the vitriol that many Mancs received online - including here - about our rising rates. But you misunderstand. I think it's rather amusing that we've been told to suck it up for all this time, but it's real and bad and scary when it hits London. | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... I agree and Unis, have been saying they should not have returned in August/sept, but the government need then open so that people could get back to work, but we opened up too quickly. The government should have done whatever it took to get the rates down. Rather than stop start mess and it's the poor who will pay.What exactly should they have done ? Held back reopening non essential businesses until it was safe for all parts of England. Get an effective track and trace. Make sure communities understood. University teaching online. Keep people working from home. Better guidelines, spacing, and funding for schools. Clear honest engagement with people. Stop pissing money at their mates. For starters." Yes that has really helped in parts of europe that had much stricter and longer lockdowns than the uk and are now in the same situation as us again.Explain that one to me. | |||
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"Could someone knowledgeable please explain how it's possible for an area of the country to not accept laws and guidelines and that they are given? I'm not saying it's wrong that they haven't, as I really don't know all the ins and outs but I would have thought that if they are told that's what they have to do, then that is the end of it, I wouldn't have thought different parts of the country could reject different tiers of lockdown, regardless of whether they are objecting for financial or any other reason. Because we are supposed to be living in something resembling a democracy?" And in a Democracy - we all have the Law applied equally.  | |||
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"Could someone knowledgeable please explain how it's possible for an area of the country to not accept laws and guidelines and that they are given? I'm not saying it's wrong that they haven't, as I really don't know all the ins and outs but I would have thought that if they are told that's what they have to do, then that is the end of it, I wouldn't have thought different parts of the country could reject different tiers of lockdown, regardless of whether they are objecting for financial or any other reason. Because we are supposed to be living in something resembling a democracy? And in a Democracy - we all have the Law applied equally. "Just too easy. | |||
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"Isn’t Burnham’s stance that he won’t accept tier 3 unless the people of Greater Manchester are supported appropriately?" If it's imposed he has said he won't break the law and won't encourage people to do so either and the Police Chief has said he will apply the Law too.  | |||
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"I wonder how many have to die before common seance takes place.
Or the elected representatives in Westminster look around at the other nations, take a moment to look analytically at what sage have advised about the effectiveness of the tier system and possibly change the plan..
It all looks a bit entrenched at the moment, the government have mucked up on some aspects of this which they are now looking to quietly change..
It's like they are more concerned about how it looks they are doing than how they are actually doing..
And we are in the middle..I think they have looked at other nations a lot of countries in Europe have local lockdowns.France,Germany,Italy and spain to name a few i guess they are all wrong too and KS is the only one who is right."So we should be ignoring our own scientific advisors and going with the ones from the countries you mention? Tbh if we had gone with Germany at the start there might be thousands less dead..? | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... I agree and Unis, have been saying they should not have returned in August/sept, but the government need then open so that people could get back to work, but we opened up too quickly. The government should have done whatever it took to get the rates down. Rather than stop start mess and it's the poor who will pay.What exactly should they have done ? Held back reopening non essential businesses until it was safe for all parts of England. Get an effective track and trace. Make sure communities understood. University teaching online. Keep people working from home. Better guidelines, spacing, and funding for schools. Clear honest engagement with people. Stop pissing money at their mates. For starters.Yes that has really helped in parts of europe that had much stricter and longer lockdowns than the uk and are now in the same situation as us again.Explain that one to me." The disease spreads when we give it a chance. That's... how infectious disease works. Suppression is challenging. We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures. | |||
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"Everywhere is experiencing harsher measures. Pubs here have been closed for over two weekends and more restrictions are to come. Guess what though people here are just getting on with it, like most of the country, and in other contries. The grandstanding and showboating from Burnhout over recent weeks is astounding. Is the entire manchester ecomony based on pubs staying open... or does gurnham have a few investments? Makes you wonder." Ahh I see what you did there You said burnout and gurnham instead of Burnham Very clever. | |||
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"Could someone knowledgeable please explain how it's possible for an area of the country to not accept laws and guidelines and that they are given? I'm not saying it's wrong that they haven't, as I really don't know all the ins and outs but I would have thought that if they are told that's what they have to do, then that is the end of it, I wouldn't have thought different parts of the country could reject different tiers of lockdown, regardless of whether they are objecting for financial or any other reason. Because we are supposed to be living in something resembling a democracy? And in a Democracy - we all have the Law applied equally.
Just too easy."What's too easy? | |||
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"Isn’t Burnham’s stance that he won’t accept tier 3 unless the people of Greater Manchester are supported appropriately? If it's imposed he has said he won't break the law and won't encourage people to do so either and the Police Chief has said he will apply the Law too. "Clever politics from the mayor, if nothing else. | |||
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"I wonder how many have to die before common seance takes place.
Or the elected representatives in Westminster look around at the other nations, take a moment to look analytically at what sage have advised about the effectiveness of the tier system and possibly change the plan..
It all looks a bit entrenched at the moment, the government have mucked up on some aspects of this which they are now looking to quietly change..
It's like they are more concerned about how it looks they are doing than how they are actually doing..
And we are in the middle..I think they have looked at other nations a lot of countries in Europe have local lockdowns.France,Germany,Italy and spain to name a few i guess they are all wrong too and KS is the only one who is right.
So we should be ignoring our own scientific advisors and going with the ones from the countries you mention?
Tbh if we had gone with Germany at the start there might be thousands less dead..?"Im not saying that, im saying with different lockdowns across europe there was no solution to the pandemic as we are all back in the same boat. | |||
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"Everywhere is experiencing harsher measures. Pubs here have been closed for over two weekends and more restrictions are to come. Guess what though people here are just getting on with it, like most of the country, and in other contries. The grandstanding and showboating from Burnhout over recent weeks is astounding. Is the entire manchester ecomony based on pubs staying open... or does gurnham have a few investments? Makes you wonder. Ahh I see what you did there You said burnout and gurnham instead of Burnham Very clever." Her her her it's so clever. Christ's sake we tell people how it is. But no, Bozo is a very clever boy and he got his colouring in right. Other countries are bad too. Evidence doesn't matter. Bad northerners submit  | |||
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"I wonder how many have to die before common seance takes place.
Or the elected representatives in Westminster look around at the other nations, take a moment to look analytically at what sage have advised about the effectiveness of the tier system and possibly change the plan..
It all looks a bit entrenched at the moment, the government have mucked up on some aspects of this which they are now looking to quietly change..
It's like they are more concerned about how it looks they are doing than how they are actually doing..
And we are in the middle..I think they have looked at other nations a lot of countries in Europe have local lockdowns.France,Germany,Italy and spain to name a few i guess they are all wrong too and KS is the only one who is right.
So we should be ignoring our own scientific advisors and going with the ones from the countries you mention?
Tbh if we had gone with Germany at the start there might be thousands less dead..?Im not saying that, im saying with different lockdowns across europe there was no solution to the pandemic as we are all back in the same boat."There are two solutions to the pandemic. Let it rip or vaccination. Everything else, we're just buying time. | |||
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"The point of the tiers was supposed to be that they were done with community consultation rather than imposed. That hasn't happened. It's not clear that the tier system has any meaningful effect on transmission rates (Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 since the end of July, and our rates have skyrocketed). Plus it is clear that the reduction of government support will plunge people into poverty. It's not just Andy Burnham or Labour opposing this, the Tories here are against it too. I saw a graph on Twitter suggesting that infection rates and growth are not neatly correlated with tier. Why are they doing it in some areas and not others? If they leave schools open tiers are pointless ..... I agree and Unis, have been saying they should not have returned in August/sept, but the government need then open so that people could get back to work, but we opened up too quickly. The government should have done whatever it took to get the rates down. Rather than stop start mess and it's the poor who will pay.What exactly should they have done ? Held back reopening non essential businesses until it was safe for all parts of England. Get an effective track and trace. Make sure communities understood. University teaching online. Keep people working from home. Better guidelines, spacing, and funding for schools. Clear honest engagement with people. Stop pissing money at their mates. For starters.Yes that has really helped in parts of europe that had much stricter and longer lockdowns than the uk and are now in the same situation as us again.Explain that one to me. The disease spreads when we give it a chance. That's... how infectious disease works. Suppression is challenging. We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures." Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? | |||
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"I wonder how many have to die before common seance takes place.
Or the elected representatives in Westminster look around at the other nations, take a moment to look analytically at what sage have advised about the effectiveness of the tier system and possibly change the plan..
It all looks a bit entrenched at the moment, the government have mucked up on some aspects of this which they are now looking to quietly change..
It's like they are more concerned about how it looks they are doing than how they are actually doing..
And we are in the middle..I think they have looked at other nations a lot of countries in Europe have local lockdowns.France,Germany,Italy and spain to name a few i guess they are all wrong too and KS is the only one who is right.
So we should be ignoring our own scientific advisors and going with the ones from the countries you mention?
Tbh if we had gone with Germany at the start there might be thousands less dead..?Im not saying that, im saying with different lockdowns across europe there was no solution to the pandemic as we are all back in the same boat.
There are two solutions to the pandemic. Let it rip or vaccination.
Everything else, we're just buying time."Our health system needs time, the alternative is unthinkable. Everywhere else in the UK other than England have taken a harder stance and Ireland are doing so now too. | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point?" Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society. | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society." There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are. | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are." Tier 2 hasn't worked in Manchester. "Hey there's no evidence but we know some of you will starve, have fun". No. | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are." We've tried it in Bolton. Three week tier 3. Rates doubled. Great stuff. You can see why Manchester wants to follow suit. | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are. We've tried it in Bolton. Three week tier 3. Rates doubled. Great stuff. You can see why Manchester wants to follow suit."
Brilliant | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are." The point is that Burnham is prepared to give it a go but not if people are going to be left in poverty with no guarantee it will work. | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are. We've tried it in Bolton. Three week tier 3. Rates doubled. Great stuff. You can see why Manchester wants to follow suit." Hey look. Evidence. Let's not plunge people into poverty for something which probably won't work | |||
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" heres an idea why not give it a try other places are." Manchester has been trying it since 30 July | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are. The point is that Burnham is prepared to give it a go but not if people are going to be left in poverty with no guarantee it will work." Exactly! He's prepared to do what it takes a) if he has reason to, and b) if vulnerable workers will be protected. Looking for evidence and trying to stop workers from plunging into poverty. What naughty northerners. | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are. We've tried it in Bolton. Three week tier 3. Rates doubled. Great stuff. You can see why Manchester wants to follow suit." Are you sure bolton went to tier 3 three weeks ago? as the tier system was not even announced until the 12th october. | |||
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"I wonder how many have to die before common seance takes place.
Or the elected representatives in Westminster look around at the other nations, take a moment to look analytically at what sage have advised about the effectiveness of the tier system and possibly change the plan..
It all looks a bit entrenched at the moment, the government have mucked up on some aspects of this which they are now looking to quietly change..
It's like they are more concerned about how it looks they are doing than how they are actually doing..
And we are in the middle..I think they have looked at other nations a lot of countries in Europe have local lockdowns.France,Germany,Italy and spain to name a few i guess they are all wrong too and KS is the only one who is right.
So we should be ignoring our own scientific advisors and going with the ones from the countries you mention?
Tbh if we had gone with Germany at the start there might be thousands less dead..?Im not saying that, im saying with different lockdowns across europe there was no solution to the pandemic as we are all back in the same boat."Then all options should be looked at, and yes they are limited for a government trying to balance the health of the nation and the economy.. Having said that the option of letting it run rampant through society is not one to put in the mix.. | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are. We've tried it in Bolton. Three week tier 3. Rates doubled. Great stuff. You can see why Manchester wants to follow suit.Are you sure bolton went to tier 3 three weeks ago? as the tier system was not even announced until the 12th october. "Yes, it just wasn't called tier 3. Just as half Manchester has been in Tier 2 since August but it wasn't called that either. All pubs and restaurants closed, no socialising either in area or outside beyond own household. Gyms stayed open but that's an optional extra of tier 3 .. a little add on for if you fancy an extra layer of pointlessness to your lockdown | |||
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" We could also compare the Australian state of Victoria? In July it had a similar number of infections to the UK (population about 5 million). Strict hard lockdown, masks including outside in Melbourne city centre. Or we could not compare, as the Tories are wont to do when it doesn't suit them. And just look at the known failures here. They're down to single figures.Exactly they locked down Victoria not the whole of australia exactly the same to the local lockdowns you are opposed to whats your point? Err... State borders were closed. It's still a huge political football in Australian federal politics if you're paying attention. Where that was evaded cases exploded. One case in a Liverpool (suburb of Sydney) pub in their winter seeded an explosion of cases, because one Victorian evaded the border closure. And I'm not opposed to local lockdown. I'm opposed to measures which may not work (there's no evidence suggesting they will) and lack of financial support for the poorest members of society.There is no evidence that it wont either so heres an idea why not give it a try other places are. We've tried it in Bolton. Three week tier 3. Rates doubled. Great stuff. You can see why Manchester wants to follow suit.Are you sure bolton went to tier 3 three weeks ago? as the tier system was not even announced until the 12th october. "Same as Manchester was "effectively" in tier 2 since July
Same or similar measures.
Should we say that we can't apply American distancing measures here because they use different vocabulary? Don't be daft. | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Because the a selfish and thick! (mask half on types. "I will wear it but my way" Defiance) So I hope they look better in a ventilator! One death is enough! They forget how many have died from ONE infection in China? Over 1 million If it was their family or friend, they would feel different. Defiance and disregard is shameful." What are you on about? | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy "What is beyond tier 3? | |||
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"I would guess that the business leaders for the area don't want every business in the hospo industry to go under. I am living in New Zealand where eradication was an achievable goal. It is not in the UK the virus is too wide spread. If the economy sinks too far where will the money for NHS come from? There is no easy solution, every government is being judged but how harshly can the government be judged if their response doesn't work when such a high proportion of the population openly doesn't follow the regulations? " How much of the population are not following regulations? | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?"All venues with alcohol licenses shut 24x7... as they have been here the past two weekends. As one example. | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?"Total Lockdown is beyond Tier 3. By the way what's too easy? | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy "As opposed to Sage recommending a circuit breaker in September and the national back foot? The Eat Out to Help Out infections seeded (and no economic gain)? The lack of support in schools? The disastrous return to university? Returning to offices so Pret don't go broke? Or are the people with the power and money exempt from criticism? | |||
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"How much of the population are not following regulations?" I have no idea, statistically, but in NZ for the first lockdown there was very little resistance. As I am from the UK and my parents who stayed in NZ for first lockdown with me have since returned they have noticed a huge difference. They took daily walks around town here, photographing the wildlife and chatting (from a distance) to locals. In the UK older people attemting to take walks were spat at by teens.... | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3. He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance
That's all relative and if they're getting any support then that's better than nothing.
You're talking to someone here who didn't earn anything for over 4 months in lockdown, didn't get a penny from the government when everyone else was getting 80% as I was self employed. I sold most of tools, my van and motorbike to pay rent and bills. Then when government decided that they had sacrificed the self-employed and decide to offer them something I found out fell through the net and I couldn't receive any help, I'd lost my business and any assets by then. I had food parcels delivered and a daughter who is front line has helped. I could go on but it's embarrassing, so I understand many of the difficulties better the man most on here."https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme | |||
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" That's all relative and if they're getting any support then that's better than nothing. You're talking to someone here who didn't earn anything for over 4 months in lockdown, didn't get a penny from the government when everyone else was getting 80% as I was self employed. I sold most of tools, my van and motorbike to pay rent and bills. Then when government decided that they had sacrificed the self-employed and decide to offer them something I found out fell through the net and I couldn't receive any help, I'd lost my business and any assets by then. I had food parcels delivered and a daughter who is front line has helped. I could go on but it's embarrassing, so I understand many of the difficulties better the man most on here. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme" If you fell through the net because of not being self employed long enough there was UC if you had nothing coming in at all | |||
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"How much of the population are not following regulations? I have no idea, statistically, but in NZ for the first lockdown there was very little resistance. As I am from the UK and my parents who stayed in NZ for first lockdown with me have since returned they have noticed a huge difference. They took daily walks around town here, photographing the wildlife and chatting (from a distance) to locals. In the UK older people attemting to take walks were spat at by teens...." NZ has had fantastic leadership through this. For awhile Ardern joined the Australian Commonwealth, premiers and chief ministers' discussions re Covid. A lot of Australians wanted to keep her and give her ScoMo's seat. | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?
All venues with alcohol licenses shut 24x7... as they have been here the past two weekends. As one example."That's up in Scotland Not every area of the uk Are the gyms not open up there? | |||
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"How much of the population are not following regulations? I have no idea, statistically, but in NZ for the first lockdown there was very little resistance. As I am from the UK and my parents who stayed in NZ for first lockdown with me have since returned they have noticed a huge difference. They took daily walks around town here, photographing the wildlife and chatting (from a distance) to locals. In the UK older people attemting to take walks were spat at by teens...." So you have no evidence that the bulk of the population are ignoring regulations? | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?
All venues with alcohol licenses shut 24x7... as they have been here the past two weekends. As one example.
That's up in Scotland
Not every area of the uk
Are the gyms not open up there?
"We can't assume that Scottish measures will happen in England. | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North " | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?
Total Lockdown is beyond Tier 3.
By the way what's too easy? "No one in england is in total lockdown You said the law should apply to everyone yet lancs and Merseyside are on the same tier yet have different regulations. And before you parrot the gmnt line..the mayor of liverpool has called gove a liar and are taking legal action. So unsurprisingly, the gmnt may have, once again,been fibbing. The packages offered to Lancashire and Merseyside have also differed. So people are not being treated equally. | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?
Total Lockdown is beyond Tier 3.
By the way what's too easy?
No one in england is in total lockdown
You said the law should apply to everyone yet lancs and Merseyside are on the same tier yet have different regulations.
And before you parrot the gmnt line..the mayor of liverpool has called gove a liar and are taking legal action.
So unsurprisingly, the gmnt may have, once again,been fibbing.
The packages offered to Lancashire and Merseyside have also differed.
So people are not being treated equally."I think Burnham is asking for the equivalent of what Lancashire are getting. Horrors, wanting consistency from the new consistent transparent system | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?
Total Lockdown is beyond Tier 3.
By the way what's too easy?
No one in england is in total lockdown
You said the law should apply to everyone yet lancs and Merseyside are on the same tier yet have different regulations.
And before you parrot the gmnt line..the mayor of liverpool has called gove a liar and are taking legal action.
So unsurprisingly, the gmnt may have, once again,been fibbing.
The packages offered to Lancashire and Merseyside have also differed.
So people are not being treated equally."You asked what is beyond Tier 3 - I answered Total Lockdown is. I didn't say anywhere in the UK is in total lockdown. Merseyside and Lancs have differences because Local Government are applying differences that are in 'their power to decide. I could call anyone a Liar - it doesn't make it the truth because I call it. The packages offered are commensurate with the number of people and business support needs.  | |||
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"Totally agree with you OP. There should be no negotiating at all if it's law. " | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North "Andy Burnham a peace of shit should be locked up a murderer putting politics before health | |||
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"Totally agree with you OP. There should be no negotiating at all if it's law. "Don't let facts get in the way of a good story though. | |||
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"How much of the population are not following regulations? I have no idea, statistically, but in NZ for the first lockdown there was very little resistance. As I am from the UK and my parents who stayed in NZ for first lockdown with me have since returned they have noticed a huge difference. They took daily walks around town here, photographing the wildlife and chatting (from a distance) to locals. In the UK older people attemting to take walks were spat at by teens...." Where is your evidence for older people being spat at? Certainly didn't happen round here. | |||
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"How much of the population are not following regulations? I have no idea, statistically, but in NZ for the first lockdown there was very little resistance. As I am from the UK and my parents who stayed in NZ for first lockdown with me have since returned they have noticed a huge difference. They took daily walks around town here, photographing the wildlife and chatting (from a distance) to locals. In the UK older people attemting to take walks were spat at by teens.... Where is your evidence for older people being spat at? Certainly didn't happen round here." Nor here. We're Manchester. We do things differently here - civilly, in the main. | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?
Total Lockdown is beyond Tier 3.
By the way what's too easy?
No one in england is in total lockdown
You said the law should apply to everyone yet lancs and Merseyside are on the same tier yet have different regulations.
And before you parrot the gmnt line..the mayor of liverpool has called gove a liar and are taking legal action.
So unsurprisingly, the gmnt may have, once again,been fibbing.
The packages offered to Lancashire and Merseyside have also differed.
So people are not being treated equally.
You asked what is beyond Tier 3 - I answered Total Lockdown is. I didn't say anywhere in the UK is in total lockdown.
Merseyside and Lancs have differences because Local Government are applying differences that are in 'their power to decide.
I could call anyone a Liar - it doesn't make it the truth because I call it.
The packages offered are commensurate with the number of people and business support needs.
"The post I was replying to said every other part of the uk was beyond stage 3. I'm fairly sure if it wasnt true rotherham would be in hot water. | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Andy Burnham a peace of shit should be locked up a murderer putting politics before health"Another sensible measured post. | |||
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"How much of the population are not following regulations? I have no idea, statistically, but in NZ for the first lockdown there was very little resistance. As I am from the UK and my parents who stayed in NZ for first lockdown with me have since returned they have noticed a huge difference. They took daily walks around town here, photographing the wildlife and chatting (from a distance) to locals. In the UK older people attemting to take walks were spat at by teens...." Where did you hear this? | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North " Isn't he in Manchester? | |||
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"How much of the population are not following regulations? I have no idea, statistically, but in NZ for the first lockdown there was very little resistance. As I am from the UK and my parents who stayed in NZ for first lockdown with me have since returned they have noticed a huge difference. They took daily walks around town here, photographing the wildlife and chatting (from a distance) to locals. In the UK older people attemting to take walks were spat at by teens.... Where did you hear this?" I do a lot of work with elderly people in my area. They've reported nothing but kindness in public. (And I tell them to go home. Isolation is real. It's hurting them a lot. I could go on. But the risks to them are enormous) | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester?" Yep | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester? Yep " Right. | |||
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"How much of the population are not following regulations? I have no idea, statistically, but in NZ for the first lockdown there was very little resistance. As I am from the UK and my parents who stayed in NZ for first lockdown with me have since returned they have noticed a huge difference. They took daily walks around town here, photographing the wildlife and chatting (from a distance) to locals. In the UK older people attemting to take walks were spat at by teens...." Not here they haven't, in fact the general consensus from what I've read throughout the UK during the lockdown is that people have as you have said engaged more .. You simply can not go around saying 'in the UK..'etc.. without providing evidence of that.. | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester?" | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester? "you have a different concept of north | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester?
you have a different concept of north "Where would you say Manchester is? | |||
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"Manchester is but a small part of the North, historically behind Liverpool in terms of architecture, football teams, talented creativity.. Mind you both cities possess a similarity in standing up for themselves and each other, self depravation and tongue in cheek banter.. "Kin phone.. depracation..! | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester?
you have a different concept of north
Where would you say Manchester is?"it's down south | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester?
you have a different concept of north
Where would you say Manchester is?"yeah north , northern but technically northwest but the country is generally a north/south devide | |||
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"Manchester is but a small part of the North, historically behind Liverpool in terms of architecture, football teams, talented creativity.. Mind you both cities possess a similarity in standing up for themselves and each other, self depravation and tongue in cheek banter..
Kin phone..
depracation..!"We both have deprivation too  | |||
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"Manchester is but a small part of the North, historically behind Liverpool in terms of architecture, football teams, talented creativity.. Mind you both cities possess a similarity in standing up for themselves and each other, self depravation and tongue in cheek banter..
Kin phone..
depracation..!
We both have deprivation too "That's true sadly enough.. | |||
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"Salford has a beach?? " Scrubby bit of mud on the banks of the Irwell | |||
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"Salford has a beach?? Scrubby bit of mud on the banks of the Irwell "I think that went over your heads lol | |||
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"Dam you northerners when thousands of you were on Salford beach the other week"  | |||
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"Salford has a beach?? Scrubby bit of mud on the banks of the Irwell I think that went over your heads lol"The irwell starts in my town | |||
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"Salford has a beach?? Scrubby bit of mud on the banks of the Irwell I think that went over your heads lol"Whooooosh indeed I was kind of hoping it now had an urban beach.. With a pop up rum bar ..Its needed.. | |||
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" Too little, too late in England as usual. Every other leader in the UK has implemented beyond Tier 3 as it is not believed to be enough. And let's face it, by the time anywhere implements any restrictions it's already on the back-foot. Way to drag it out even longer though Andy
What is beyond tier 3?
Total Lockdown is beyond Tier 3.
By the way what's too easy?
No one in england is in total lockdown
You said the law should apply to everyone yet lancs and Merseyside are on the same tier yet have different regulations.
And before you parrot the gmnt line..the mayor of liverpool has called gove a liar and are taking legal action.
So unsurprisingly, the gmnt may have, once again,been fibbing.
The packages offered to Lancashire and Merseyside have also differed.
So people are not being treated equally.
You asked what is beyond Tier 3 - I answered Total Lockdown is. I didn't say anywhere in the UK is in total lockdown.
Merseyside and Lancs have differences because Local Government are applying differences that are in 'their power to decide.
I could call anyone a Liar - it doesn't make it the truth because I call it.
The packages offered are commensurate with the number of people and business support needs.
"I can tell you straight away that the government have not offered a package commensurate with the number of people, and business needs. There is no one in the government with the skills to do that this quickly, especially not without engagement with the local authorities. What the government has done is develop an algorithm, and algorithms are only as fair as the criteria you use and the data you choose to draw from. | |||
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"Salford has a beach?? Scrubby bit of mud on the banks of the Irwell I think that went over your heads lol
Whooooosh indeed
I was kind of hoping it now had an urban beach.. With a pop up rum bar ..Its needed.. "the irony is your location lol. Not having ago at anyone everyone was stir crazy and wanted out just making a point before people start northern bashing | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester?
you have a different concept of north
Where would you say Manchester is?"What would he know? He doesn’t realise that Catterick is in the Midlands. | |||
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"Salford has a beach?? Scrubby bit of mud on the banks of the Irwell I think that went over your heads lol
Whooooosh indeed
I was kind of hoping it now had an urban beach.. With a pop up rum bar ..Its needed.. the irony is your location lol. Not having ago at anyone everyone was stir crazy and wanted out just making a point before people start northern bashing "It was mostly brummies and yam yams down here that weekend and a few shire folk. | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester?
you have a different concept of north
Where would you say Manchester is?
What would he know? He doesn’t realise that Catterick is in the Midlands."I believe he's from liverpool? He was the m.p for our town for a while (leigh) even saw him around town a couple of times too before he got the Manchester job | |||
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"Salford has a beach?? Scrubby bit of mud on the banks of the Irwell I think that went over your heads lol
Whooooosh indeed
I was kind of hoping it now had an urban beach.. With a pop up rum bar ..Its needed.. the irony is your location lol. Not having ago at anyone everyone was stir crazy and wanted out just making a point before people start northern bashing
It was mostly brummies and yam yams down here that weekend and a few shire folk. "oh I can definitely appreciate people would of travelled there, newquay was our go to place and that's 7hrs away for us but the council/police whoever should of closed that shit down. The aerial footage was mindblowing | |||
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"Andy burnham King of the North Isn't he in Manchester?
you have a different concept of north
Where would you say Manchester is?
What would he know? He doesn’t realise that Catterick is in the Midlands."There is a world of difference between where one currently resides and where one is actually from. | |||
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"Salford has a beach?? Scrubby bit of mud on the banks of the Irwell I think that went over your heads lol
Whooooosh indeed
I was kind of hoping it now had an urban beach.. With a pop up rum bar ..Its needed.. the irony is your location lol. Not having ago at anyone everyone was stir crazy and wanted out just making a point before people start northern bashing
It was mostly brummies and yam yams down here that weekend and a few shire folk. oh I can definitely appreciate people would of travelled there, newquay was our go to place and that's 7hrs away for us but the council/police whoever should of closed that shit down. The aerial footage was mindblowing"That beach is 7 miles long yet they all packed a 1 mile stretch..Their choice.l guess they needed to be close to chippy and ice cream parlour. | |||
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"Remember when andy Burnham said all the pubs had to close at 10pm causing mass crowds on the streets then he did that eat out to help out Monday to Thursday causing huge cues at fast food places and everyone packed into pubs and restaurants...what a idiot eh" We'll all overlook that.  | |||
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"Burnham is making a pigs ear of this... it must be time to bring out the big madchester political guns... Bez where are you...? "It's nice to see someone standing up against the government scaremongering, hopefully this will make people question the government overreaction more. | |||
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"Just on news..no agreement has been reached over deal.." Apparently Boris is making an announcement 5pm | |||
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"Just on news..no agreement has been reached over deal.. Apparently Boris is making an announcement 5pm" he is Sally | |||
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" Apparently Boris is making an announcement 5pm he is Sally "I doubt he will say I can hug my daughter who lives in Fallowfield. I last hugged her 29 February and have had one elbow bump since. | |||
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" Apparently Boris is making an announcement 5pm he is Sally
I doubt he will say I can hug my daughter who lives in Fallowfield. I last hugged her 29 February and have had one elbow bump since. "Oh bless you...I miss all the hugs with family and friends x | |||
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" Apparently Boris is making an announcement 5pm he is Sally
I doubt he will say I can hug my daughter who lives in Fallowfield. I last hugged her 29 February and have had one elbow bump since.
Oh bless you...I miss all the hugs with family and friends x"Same. | |||
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" Apparently Boris is making an announcement 5pm he is Sally
I doubt he will say I can hug my daughter who lives in Fallowfield. I last hugged her 29 February and have had one elbow bump since.
Oh bless you...I miss all the hugs with family and friends x
Same."xx | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3. He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance "Bollocks they get more in Tier 3 than in Tier 2 | |||
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"There are two things that stand out to me when I see this. Public defiance against the law and of the government. There's a time and place but this is neither imo as we're talking the lives of people and unless he can clearly show he's saving lives instead of sacrificing them then it's wrong on both accounts. This could have provide something to fiil the vacuum of discontent but not with the right thing. Secondly political gamesmanship at the expense of lives. Just wrong on every level. Again the wrong message to people. Blackma*l is a weak way to negotiate, it usualy show underlying weakness in the ability to get things done in conventional ways. I hope the government slaps him hard, but it should be his own leader Kier Starker who should show strength here, but sadly he's caught because he's said one thing publically but then has allowed this to continue too long in complete contradiction to what he has been saying. Has the tier system been proved to save lives? Where is b@@@@@@l coming into it? Ks has advocated a circuit break.The gmnt wants to impose tier 3.2 completely separate things. Unless I misheard him, he said he needed more money, he didn't have the resources to put manchester into tier 3. He wants to stop people from starving. How dreadful. Simply appalling, that stance
Bollocks they get more in Tier 3 than in Tier 2"What, people get more not working than working, when furlough (equivalent) has been reduced to 67%? How, exactly. | |||
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"Boris looks to like a no deal outcome.." That's what the BBC is suggesting | |||
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"Boris looks to like a no deal outcome.. That's what the BBC is suggesting" There will still need to be support else it will fail at the first hurdle.. | |||
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"Boris looks to like a no deal outcome.. That's what the BBC is suggesting There will still need to be support else it will fail at the first hurdle.." Naughty northerners fault. BoZo can do no wrong. | |||
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"Boris once against showing off his immense diplomatic skills "  | |||
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"Boris looks to like a no deal outcome.. That's what the BBC is suggesting" Don't watch the BBC, lying figure twisting bastards, carry on  | |||
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"Andy Burnham giving speech on BBC 24 news..." I think he came across very good and his remark about the government dealing with this virus as the same as a poker deal was very apt. I'd swap our mayor for him any day. | |||
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"Boris looks to like a no deal outcome.. That's what the BBC is suggesting Don't watch the BBC, lying figure twisting bastards, carry on "Too many right wingers in the BBC, what do you expect? | |||
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"Boris looks to like a no deal outcome.. That's what the BBC is suggesting Don't watch the BBC, lying figure twisting bastards, carry on
Too many right wingers in the BBC, what do you expect?"Laura Kuenssberg...I'll say no more.. | |||
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"Andy Burnham giving speech on BBC 24 news... I think he came across very good and his remark about the government dealing with this virus as the same as a poker deal was very apt. I'd swap our mayor for him any day." I thought he came across very well too | |||
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"Boris looks to like a no deal outcome.. That's what the BBC is suggesting Don't watch the BBC, lying figure twisting bastards, carry on
Too many right wingers in the BBC, what do you expect?
Laura Kuenssberg...I'll say no more.."She wears nice coats  | |||
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"Could someone knowledgeable please explain how it's possible for an area of the country to not accept laws and guidelines and that they are given? I'm not saying it's wrong that they haven't, as I really don't know all the ins and outs but I would have thought that if they are told that's what they have to do, then that is the end of it, I wouldn't have thought different parts of the country could reject different tiers of lockdown, regardless of whether they are objecting for financial or any other reason. Because we are supposed to be living in something resembling a democracy?" we have never been able to vote on law ... thats not how a democracy works | |||
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"Boris once against showing of his immense diplomatic skills " yeah never been one of his strong points ... still can’t understand how he had made where he has in his career without picking up some of those skills tbh | |||
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"So they have said they will pay 22 million £ after offering 60 million...then closing the door. Shamefully playing with people lives..a bloody disgrace. " Disgraceful... | |||
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"So the deal is 22 million..." We have a far greater population than the Liverpool region yet less money to compensate businesses. That makes sense | |||
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"So the deal is 22 million... We have a far greater population than the Liverpool region yet less money to compensate businesses. That makes sense "No it doesn't... | |||
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"Boris looks to like a no deal outcome.. That's what the BBC is suggesting Don't watch the BBC, lying figure twisting bastards, carry on
Too many right wingers in the BBC, what do you expect?
Laura Kuenssberg...I'll say no more..
She wears nice coats "Even boris outwitted her in an interview a couple of months ago | |||
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