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Congestion charge proposal
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It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken "
Car tax. Fuel tax. Insurance tax. Tax on buying the flipping things. Tax on the money used to buy and run them.....
Nope. Taxing doesn’t stop necessity. |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken "
What they are doing is yet again is using the motorist as a cash cow.This if brought in will generate millions and may they hope leave them with a smaller bill.
But they appear to have forgotten about the fact that all goods sold in shops are transported by road.
Cost of living inside the zone going to go up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Does this include(ULEZ)exempt cars i didn't think it did. Cost wise £12.50 for cars, vans and motorbikes; £100 for buses, coaches and HGVs was what I heard. |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
What they are doing is yet again is using the motorist as a cash cow.This if brought in will generate millions and may they hope leave them with a smaller bill.
But they appear to have forgotten about the fact that all goods sold in shops are transported by road.
Cost of living inside the zone going to go up."
It will and not something I agree with at all, central London fair enough but not anywhere within the north / south circular, if they get this through (which I hope Khan sticks to his word and fights it) inside the M25 will be next.
I don’t drive but it’s very clear with all the home building going on that car parking is not being provided with them (or if it is, it doesn’t even equate for 10% of the occupancy) that the plan appears to be to eradicate car ownership within London over time, by making it harder and more expensive to drive in the zone. |
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"Does this include(ULEZ)exempt cars i didn't think it did. Cost wise £12.50 for cars, vans and motorbikes; £100 for buses, coaches and HGVs was what I heard. "
Congestion charge is separate from the ULEZ charges you mention above. The ULEZ zone is expanding as of October 2021 up to the north/south circular but not those roads itself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does this include(ULEZ)exempt cars i didn't think it did. Cost wise £12.50 for cars, vans and motorbikes; £100 for buses, coaches and HGVs was what I heard.
Congestion charge is separate from the ULEZ charges you mention above. The ULEZ zone is expanding as of October 2021 up to the north/south circular but not those roads itself. "
Just us zero emission ones exempt then you loose track when you go all electric. |
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"Does this include(ULEZ)exempt cars i didn't think it did. Cost wise £12.50 for cars, vans and motorbikes; £100 for buses, coaches and HGVs was what I heard.
Congestion charge is separate from the ULEZ charges you mention above. The ULEZ zone is expanding as of October 2021 up to the north/south circular but not those roads itself.
Just us zero emission ones exempt then you loose track when you go all electric. "
Until 2025 yes electric is your friend and no charge after that you’ll have to pay  |
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Whilst there are thousands of people whose deaths are or can be attributed to air pollution in the capital then the incumbent in the big seat regardless of party will use it as a means to raise revenue.. |
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"Whilst there are thousands of people whose deaths are or can be attributed to air pollution in the capital then the incumbent in the big seat regardless of party will use it as a means to raise revenue.."
.... and it will follow into every city using that reasoning. |
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"Whilst there are thousands of people whose deaths are or can be attributed to air pollution in the capital then the incumbent in the big seat regardless of party will use it as a means to raise revenue..
.... and it will follow into every city using that reasoning. "
It will yes.. |
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"congestion charging in london has made no difference at all just another tax"
It will if expanded as has been said. A very large majority of the goods moved in and out of London are with in the circulars but not the current congestion zones.
This will make a difference but not in the way intended as it will drive up the cost of goods and services
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yes will make a difference in costs to companies and individuals
but its intention originally was to cut down on congestion and pollution of which neither have been achieved
if any think thing are worse than they were years ago |
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"yes will make a difference in costs to companies and individuals
but its intention originally was to cut down on congestion and pollution of which neither have been achieved
if any think thing are worse than they were years ago"
Congestion is a lot worse now but mainly because they shrink some main roads, a lot more have been reduced in size for COVID distancing so more individuals can walk / cycle. |
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"congestion charging in london has made no difference at all just another tax"
It has.Roads inside the charge zone are now fairly good to drive on.Can find parking now when and where I need it.The biggest problem has been lets close half the road for social distancing.IE Regent Street one lane each way used to be 2.Park Lane used to be 3 lanes now 1.
What it has done is force more to go round so the roads around it are more congested.
Weekends we now have our pick of where we can park . |
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"yes will make a difference in costs to companies and individuals
but its intention originally was to cut down on congestion and pollution of which neither have been achieved
if any think thing are worse than they were years ago
Congestion is a lot worse now but mainly because they shrink some main roads, a lot more have been reduced in size for COVID distancing so more individuals can walk / cycle. "
But there are no pedestrians and not many cyclists.Plus of course they close some roads at 5pm. |
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for the last 6 months yes roads have been empty due to covid but even so there are still numerous traffic jams all over
try driving on the euston road or park lane north bound
new oxford street
gower street
bishopsgate in the city
upper and lower thanmes street
cannon street
to name but a few
all at a standstill more or less causing more pollution
i might add these are not my words but those of my hubby a london black cab driver of 30 years |
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"yes will make a difference in costs to companies and individuals
but its intention originally was to cut down on congestion and pollution of which neither have been achieved
if any think thing are worse than they were years ago
Congestion is a lot worse now but mainly because they shrink some main roads, a lot more have been reduced in size for COVID distancing so more individuals can walk / cycle.
But there are no pedestrians and not many cyclists.Plus of course they close some roads at 5pm."
I know it’s madness, they started in the centre but starting to spread it out further to other boroughs |
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"for the last 6 months yes roads have been empty due to covid but even so there are still numerous traffic jams all over
try driving on the euston road or park lane north bound
new oxford street
gower street
bishopsgate in the city
upper and lower thanmes street
cannon street
to name but a few
all at a standstill more or less causing more pollution
i might add these are not my words but those of my hubby a london black cab driver of 30 years"
To be fair most of these roads were a nightmare even before.Have been for years and I go into the city most days.
He forgot Regent Street which is now gridlocked due to social distancing.
And anything round Vauxhall as the bridge is still closed |
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well hes allowed to use vauxhall bridge he says
well south bound anyway but yes a nightmare when he tries to get back over the river
theres many more he could mention its not good and certainly getting worse
but then i guess most major cities are similar
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"for the last 6 months yes roads have been empty due to covid but even so there are still numerous traffic jams all over
try driving on the euston road or park lane north bound
new oxford street
gower street
bishopsgate in the city
upper and lower thanmes street
cannon street
to name but a few
all at a standstill more or less causing more pollution
i might add these are not my words but those of my hubby a london black cab driver of 30 years
To be fair most of these roads were a nightmare even before.Have been for years and I go into the city most days.
He forgot Regent Street which is now gridlocked due to social distancing.
And anything round Vauxhall as the bridge is still closed"
It’s quicker to walk anywhere in the centre than drive or get a bus |
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"for the last 6 months yes roads have been empty due to covid but even so there are still numerous traffic jams all over
try driving on the euston road or park lane north bound
new oxford street
gower street
bishopsgate in the city
upper and lower thanmes street
cannon street
to name but a few
all at a standstill more or less causing more pollution
i might add these are not my words but those of my hubby a london black cab driver of 30 years
To be fair most of these roads were a nightmare even before.Have been for years and I go into the city most days.
He forgot Regent Street which is now gridlocked due to social distancing.
And anything round Vauxhall as the bridge is still closed
It’s quicker to walk anywhere in the centre than drive or get a bus "
Try doing that with heavy tools and a ladder.
My ladder is yellow but people still walk into it. |
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"for the last 6 months yes roads have been empty due to covid but even so there are still numerous traffic jams all over
try driving on the euston road or park lane north bound
new oxford street
gower street
bishopsgate in the city
upper and lower thanmes street
cannon street
to name but a few
all at a standstill more or less causing more pollution
i might add these are not my words but those of my hubby a london black cab driver of 30 years
To be fair most of these roads were a nightmare even before.Have been for years and I go into the city most days.
He forgot Regent Street which is now gridlocked due to social distancing.
And anything round Vauxhall as the bridge is still closed
It’s quicker to walk anywhere in the centre than drive or get a bus
Try doing that with heavy tools and a ladder.
My ladder is yellow but people still walk into it."
Of course business travel is different. As for walking in to your ladder, it, most have no concept of spacial awareness and why are you in their path !
If I get stopped and asked which bus is the right one to a place 9/10 I will tell them to walk as by the time you’ve waited for the bus and then sat in traffic you could have walked to your destination and back in the same time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have a hunch...maybe this is to help pay for the re-nationalisation of the railways. Perhaps we'll see congestion charges rolled out across many of the big cities ...manc,brum,lpool,leeds etc might get whacked in the same way london has been. And someone mentioned the M25 ring being the eventual limit earlier....that's probably in the post circa 5 years from now...oh and expect a doubling of fuel prices, road tax and toll roads....just my opinion mind.  |
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"I have a hunch...maybe this is to help pay for the re-nationalisation of the railways. Perhaps we'll see congestion charges rolled out across many of the big cities ...manc,brum,lpool,leeds etc might get whacked in the same way london has been. And someone mentioned the M25 ring being the eventual limit earlier....that's probably in the post circa 5 years from now...oh and expect a doubling of fuel prices, road tax and toll roads....just my opinion mind. "
The current proposal is so the government can bail out TfL and keep it running, along with increasing fares now. However I expect anything bough in now will not be reversed |
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"to preoccupied with their phones probably
the amount of people that just step out into the road in front of him
"
Called lemmings.But if you do run them over its your fault even if they step out in front of you. |
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"I have a hunch...maybe this is to help pay for the re-nationalisation of the railways. Perhaps we'll see congestion charges rolled out across many of the big cities ...manc,brum,lpool,leeds etc might get whacked in the same way london has been. And someone mentioned the M25 ring being the eventual limit earlier....that's probably in the post circa 5 years from now...oh and expect a doubling of fuel prices, road tax and toll roads....just my opinion mind. "
Wont happen too many rich people with more than one car.
But I can see the charge goint to £20.00 per day after xmas. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"North and south circular extension proposed! £15 per day to drive anywhere!!! "
Yet another example of the War on Motorist and further proof that Congestion Charging is nothing to do with managing road traffic and all to do with revenue raising.
Sadiq needs to find his backbone and block this proposal.
Also, another condition of the bailout is the scrapping of free public transport for kids and OAPs |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken "
Your comment is the first I've seen anywhere that's pointed out it's a government condition.
Every other comment has blamed Khan! |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Your comment is the first I've seen anywhere that's pointed out it's a government condition.
Every other comment has blamed Khan! "
This is true. It's another example of the government expecting ordinary working people to drag them out of the hole they have created.
As mayor though, it is Sadiq's job to stand up for them and reject it. |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Your comment is the first I've seen anywhere that's pointed out it's a government condition.
Every other comment has blamed Khan! "
Just like the last extension was part of one of the conditions for the TFL bailout, this one is too (one element of it). Khan did give in too easily last time, this time he’s fighting it if it’s not this it will be something else to keep TfL afloat, either way individuals in London are paying the price to keep the transport system afloat and will do for many years to come.
Just like the country will end up paying for the furlough bailouts and other expenditure in the future, it’s not free money and has to be recouped somehow. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"I have a hunch...maybe this is to help pay for the re-nationalisation of the railways. Perhaps we'll see congestion charges rolled out across many of the big cities ...manc,brum,lpool,leeds etc might get whacked in the same way london has been. And someone mentioned the M25 ring being the eventual limit earlier....that's probably in the post circa 5 years from now...oh and expect a doubling of fuel prices, road tax and toll roads....just my opinion mind. "
wont be rolled out to the m25 as in most places the m25 dosent go anywhere near the areas coverd by tfl.may be rolled out across all london boroughs but tfl dosent cover hertfordshire essex berkshire kent or most of the areas that the m25 cuts through.it may circle london but the road barley goes through any partt of london |
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"North and south circular extension proposed! £15 per day to drive anywhere!!!
Yet another example of the War on Motorist and further proof that Congestion Charging is nothing to do with managing road traffic and all to do with revenue raising.
Sadiq needs to find his backbone and block this proposal.
Also, another condition of the bailout is the scrapping of free public transport for kids and OAPs"
Can be laid at his door all day long.Joke of a Mayor.Freezing fairs and underfunding TFL.Man has been an absolute joke since he was elected.
The rooster has come back to roost. |
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"I have a hunch...maybe this is to help pay for the re-nationalisation of the railways. Perhaps we'll see congestion charges rolled out across many of the big cities ...manc,brum,lpool,leeds etc might get whacked in the same way london has been. And someone mentioned the M25 ring being the eventual limit earlier....that's probably in the post circa 5 years from now...oh and expect a doubling of fuel prices, road tax and toll roads....just my opinion mind.
wont be rolled out to the m25 as in most places the m25 dosent go anywhere near the areas coverd by tfl.may be rolled out across all london boroughs but tfl dosent cover hertfordshire essex berkshire kent or most of the areas that the m25 cuts through.it may circle london but the road barley goes through any partt of london"
It doesn’t go through London but it’s borders certainly are covered by TfL transport, Heathrow, Upminster, Enfield, Watford to name a few, there are even some links that go outside the M25; with very few exceptions the area within it is covered under Greater London |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
live in hertfordshire wich it cuts through u want a free buss pass for kids or pensioners its coubty council who issue them and they cant be used on london transport.mates kid goes school in edgeware he has to pay lot of orhers go school in watford and potters bar they dont pay.bit like with the tiers they just brought in barnet is level two as its london im in borehamwood 3 miles down the road we level one as aint in london |
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"live in hertfordshire wich it cuts through u want a free buss pass for kids or pensioners its coubty council who issue them and they cant be used on london transport.mates kid goes school in edgeware he has to pay lot of orhers go school in watford and potters bar they dont pay.bit like with the tiers they just brought in barnet is level two as its london im in borehamwood 3 miles down the road we level one as aint in london"
Yes you live outside of London so doesn’t affect you. Re kids to school at present if you are 10 and under you don’t have to pay as long as you are travelling with a paying adult; 11 upwards you do pay with a kids zip card a reduced rate.
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Congestion charge ! just shows because of lock down we had no idea the charges had changed nor the times not been into London since Feb. Ole man drove in on 5 th Saturday @ 9:55 pm apparently . Grrr bloody £80 ticket , took 12 days to get the letter . Wonder if he can appeal . What rotters always thought weekends were exempt . |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
I though the extension was always part of the proposal?
It's a disgusting attack on those who can least afford it and will mean further financial hardship for lower paid self employed people.
From a supposedly "Labour" mayor.
The congestion charge and ULEZ have long since ceasedto be about traffic management and are all about raising revenue to prop up the public transport network.
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"Why is this in the virus threads ?"
Because our dickhead of a mayor agreed to extend the operating hours and days in exchange for public transport funding from Boris to plug the hole created by people working from home. |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"Why is this in the virus threads ?
Because our dickhead of a mayor agreed to extend the operating hours and days in exchange for public transport funding from Boris to plug the hole created by people working from home."
He does love the postal votes though ... loud cough! |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken "
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
|
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
"
I.still maintain that he should of held out, told the govt NO. They would have found the money from somewhere instead motorists and small businesses are left to pick up the cost. Again. |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
"
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ... |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ..."
That doesn't satisfy the need for budget shortfalls to get repaid though. |
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I think they'll find boilers and air conditioning systems cause more pollution than cars.
Catalytic converters are on cars they reduce pollutants, put an additional filter on the exhausts.
Ah congestion that's the problem too.
Take all the German cars off the road, jobs done, especially the ones that cheated emission tests. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ..."
In the right place they are absolutely the right answer but they need to be better thought out and be developed as separate entities to the roads to avoid confrontation |
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"North and south circular extension proposed! £15 per day to drive anywhere!!! "
There is a plan in place for everywhere inside the M25 to be a congestion zone, imagine the funds they can make from that. |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ...
In the right place they are absolutely the right answer but they need to be better thought out and be developed as separate entities to the roads to avoid confrontation"
What about people who can't cycle? How are they the right answer then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ...
In the right place they are absolutely the right answer but they need to be better thought out and be developed as separate entities to the roads to avoid confrontation
What about people who can't cycle? How are they the right answer then?"
Bus, car, pony ... I'm guessing as many people can't drive as cycle yet we've still got roads |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ...
In the right place they are absolutely the right answer but they need to be better thought out and be developed as separate entities to the roads to avoid confrontation
What about people who can't cycle? How are they the right answer then?
Bus, car, pony ... I'm guessing as many people can't drive as cycle yet we've still got roads "
Just remember that there are people who rely on motor vehicles (which incur congestion charges in London and other cities), and for whom alternatives are impossible or exceptionally difficult. I'm a wheelchair user. I cannot cycle. I live within a couple of miles of 5 different railway stations here in the Northern Powerhouse but I cannot get on a train at any of them, because none of the stations have wheelchair user platforms.
Have you tried getting about by manual wheelchair? |
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"North and south circular extension proposed! £15 per day to drive anywhere!!!
There is a plan in place for everywhere inside the M25 to be a congestion zone, imagine the funds they can make from that."
Agreed a while ago, before covid, The Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) extension comes into effect October 2021, anything inside the north and south circular will be the new zone and subject to a charge based on your vehicle. Congestion zone still tbc but I wouldn’t be surprised if it follows over the next couple of years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ...
In the right place they are absolutely the right answer but they need to be better thought out and be developed as separate entities to the roads to avoid confrontation
What about people who can't cycle? How are they the right answer then?
Bus, car, pony ... I'm guessing as many people can't drive as cycle yet we've still got roads
Just remember that there are people who rely on motor vehicles (which incur congestion charges in London and other cities), and for whom alternatives are impossible or exceptionally difficult. I'm a wheelchair user. I cannot cycle. I live within a couple of miles of 5 different railway stations here in the Northern Powerhouse but I cannot get on a train at any of them, because none of the stations have wheelchair user platforms.
Have you tried getting about by manual wheelchair?"
Not an argument I'm going to win there ... but the problem seems to be lack of provision for wheelchair users rather than the provision of cycle paths for cyclists.
The Northern Powerhouse was a political game to make us feel included but I got the feeling when Burnham got spanked that the game was over. |
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ...
In the right place they are absolutely the right answer but they need to be better thought out and be developed as separate entities to the roads to avoid confrontation
What about people who can't cycle? How are they the right answer then?
Bus, car, pony ... I'm guessing as many people can't drive as cycle yet we've still got roads
Just remember that there are people who rely on motor vehicles (which incur congestion charges in London and other cities), and for whom alternatives are impossible or exceptionally difficult. I'm a wheelchair user. I cannot cycle. I live within a couple of miles of 5 different railway stations here in the Northern Powerhouse but I cannot get on a train at any of them, because none of the stations have wheelchair user platforms.
Have you tried getting about by manual wheelchair?
Not an argument I'm going to win there ... but the problem seems to be lack of provision for wheelchair users rather than the provision of cycle paths for cyclists.
The Northern Powerhouse was a political game to make us feel included but I got the feeling when Burnham got spanked that the game was over."
Correct, but you can't cut off the main method of transport for a huge bunch of people before making public transport properly accessible. If they do ever start charging private vehicles in Manchester, this is one disabled FT worker (on a tidy income) who will be switching jobs PDQ. It's dear enough as it is. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ...
In the right place they are absolutely the right answer but they need to be better thought out and be developed as separate entities to the roads to avoid confrontation
What about people who can't cycle? How are they the right answer then?
Bus, car, pony ... I'm guessing as many people can't drive as cycle yet we've still got roads
Just remember that there are people who rely on motor vehicles (which incur congestion charges in London and other cities), and for whom alternatives are impossible or exceptionally difficult. I'm a wheelchair user. I cannot cycle. I live within a couple of miles of 5 different railway stations here in the Northern Powerhouse but I cannot get on a train at any of them, because none of the stations have wheelchair user platforms.
Have you tried getting about by manual wheelchair?
Not an argument I'm going to win there ... but the problem seems to be lack of provision for wheelchair users rather than the provision of cycle paths for cyclists.
The Northern Powerhouse was a political game to make us feel included but I got the feeling when Burnham got spanked that the game was over.
Correct, but you can't cut off the main method of transport for a huge bunch of people before making public transport properly accessible. If they do ever start charging private vehicles in Manchester, this is one disabled FT worker (on a tidy income) who will be switching jobs PDQ. It's dear enough as it is."
Makes sense now. I was simply replying to the "stop making cycle lanes" comment ... certainly not a supporter of the congestion charge . The city centre is on its arse anyway. CG would just about kill it |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"It’s one of the conditions that the ministers want to help TFL financially, ludicrous proposal. If they are thinking that making people to pay to use their cars will push them on to public transport they are very much mistaken
Tfl are clearly between a rock and a hard place. The idea isn't to encourage people to use public transport, rather than for Londoners to keep tfl afloat.
I know its shit, but we have a shit government. Perhaps you could offer the MoL a better suggestion?
Stop building cycle lanes for a start ...
In the right place they are absolutely the right answer but they need to be better thought out and be developed as separate entities to the roads to avoid confrontation"
Correct, what they have done in London, Birmingham and Manchester is move 2 lanes into 1 to accommodate a cycle lane. Instant carnage add bus lanes in the mix and cities become grid locked. Air pollution goes up, prices go up due to transport costs and taxes go up to pay for the lanes.
I've attended transport forums at County level and its quite eye opening due to the lack of knowledge, councils don't involve transport companies in any plans. Imho an experienced driver/owner could tell you what would work in seconds |
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"If they do ever start charging private vehicles in Manchester"
The new Manchester "clean air" zone proposals don't go nearly far enough as they exclude private cars. Although all commercial vehicles which are not Euro6 will be charged we also have a big problem with old diesel cars here. Also the soft politicians have allowed a grace period for commercial vehicles, and have said the charges will end in 5 years. |
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"If they do ever start charging private vehicles in Manchester
The new Manchester "clean air" zone proposals don't go nearly far enough as they exclude private cars. Although all commercial vehicles which are not Euro6 will be charged we also have a big problem with old diesel cars here. Also the soft politicians have allowed a grace period for commercial vehicles, and have said the charges will end in 5 years."
And how do they propose wheelchair users get into Manc if they do start congestion charging? You're from Leigh. Just think about the railway stations at places like Hindley - all the railway stations around me are like that - no lifts. How are wheelchair users meant to get around? The fancy V1/2 buses are miles away too - or are disabled people meant to either fork out a fortune or be confined to barracks? I work FT in the city centre (in normal times) and contribute a sizeable tax chunk from it. It'd be silly to put more barriers up to disabled people's employment etc. |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"If they do ever start charging private vehicles in Manchester
The new Manchester "clean air" zone proposals don't go nearly far enough as they exclude private cars. Although all commercial vehicles which are not Euro6 will be charged we also have a big problem with old diesel cars here. Also the soft politicians have allowed a grace period for commercial vehicles, and have said the charges will end in 5 years.
And how do they propose wheelchair users get into Manc if they do start congestion charging? You're from Leigh. Just think about the railway stations at places like Hindley - all the railway stations around me are like that - no lifts. How are wheelchair users meant to get around? The fancy V1/2 buses are miles away too - or are disabled people meant to either fork out a fortune or be confined to barracks? I work FT in the city centre (in normal times) and contribute a sizeable tax chunk from it. It'd be silly to put more barriers up to disabled people's employment etc."
fully agree, after a bad accident years ago, my mobility was a few steps if that (thank fully back to full mobility now) but in them couple of years it opened my eyes up to quite a few things, public transport was a nightmare and heavily relied on friends and taxis. when councils/government go through this at planning stage i would love for disability groups to be represented and ask the questions.
what you find is councils have used the covid pandemic to quietly push through various changes to transport/congestion/lane closures |
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fully agree, after a bad accident years ago, my mobility was a few steps if that (thank fully back to full mobility now) but in them couple of years it opened my eyes up to quite a few things, public transport was a nightmare and heavily relied on friends and taxis. when councils/government go through this at planning stage i would love for disability groups to be represented and ask the questions.
what you find is councils have used the covid pandemic to quietly push through various changes to transport/congestion/lane closures "
Totally agree. I honestly don't think any able bodied person can understand what it's like to have a mobility impairment. Until you've pushed a mile in a man's wheelchair (never mind walking in his shoes!)  |
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fully agree, after a bad accident years ago, my mobility was a few steps if that (thank fully back to full mobility now) but in them couple of years it opened my eyes up to quite a few things, public transport was a nightmare and heavily relied on friends and taxis. when councils/government go through this at planning stage i would love for disability groups to be represented and ask the questions.
what you find is councils have used the covid pandemic to quietly push through various changes to transport/congestion/lane closures
Totally agree. I honestly don't think any able bodied person can understand what it's like to have a mobility impairment. Until you've pushed a mile in a man's wheelchair (never mind walking in his shoes!) "
There are of course ways around this. For example, exempting disabled badge holders. That would still remove the majority of older vehicles.
Also, as it is a clean air charge, newer vehicles are exempt anyway. If you earn enough to contribute a substantial amount of tax, a newish vehicle shouldn't be too much of an issue. |
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fully agree, after a bad accident years ago, my mobility was a few steps if that (thank fully back to full mobility now) but in them couple of years it opened my eyes up to quite a few things, public transport was a nightmare and heavily relied on friends and taxis. when councils/government go through this at planning stage i would love for disability groups to be represented and ask the questions.
what you find is councils have used the covid pandemic to quietly push through various changes to transport/congestion/lane closures
Totally agree. I honestly don't think any able bodied person can understand what it's like to have a mobility impairment. Until you've pushed a mile in a man's wheelchair (never mind walking in his shoes!)
There are of course ways around this. For example, exempting disabled badge holders. That would still remove the majority of older vehicles.
Also, as it is a clean air charge, newer vehicles are exempt anyway. If you earn enough to contribute a substantial amount of tax, a newish vehicle shouldn't be too much of an issue."
Last time it was proposed (the referendum), there were no exemptions for blue badge holders. Also not all disabled people are blue badge holders. The current system for getting one is so difficult that many genuinely disabled people do not qualify. I only qualified by having to go to a physical interview, because despite being a wheelchair user, I don't claim any benefits, but claiming benefits of certain types is mandatory in some council areas. It's a bizarre system. |
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Also re: buying a new car. My car is adapted. I don't claim benefits so this is at my own cost and it's certainly not cheap. It's not just buying a car, but adapting it and I'm also trying to adapt my house (which is very much NOT disability friendly). I earn a decent wage, but not enough to put me in the higher tax bracket, put it that way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"North and south circular extension proposed! £15 per day to drive anywhere!!!
And there's a sextax coming too, £20 every time you cum "
Tbh I won’t miss the £20 |
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By *usybee73Man
over a year ago
in the sticks |
"Also re: buying a new car. My car is adapted. I don't claim benefits so this is at my own cost and it's certainly not cheap. It's not just buying a car, but adapting it and I'm also trying to adapt my house (which is very much NOT disability friendly). I earn a decent wage, but not enough to put me in the higher tax bracket, put it that way."
still should get help with adaptions for the home, might be worth having a chat with gp about getting a referral to the occupational therapist, then again i dare say you have done 
your quite correct about the system, its a mine field at the best of time. i only got the correct help after chatting to a social worker in a supermarket.  |
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In terms of the system, we know it is difficult as both our mothers had to fight to get a blue badge and a motability car. Even though one was pretty immobile and wheelchair bound due to a stroke and the other couldn't walk more than a few yards due to damage from cancer treatment, and had to have an automatic car as she didn't have the strength in her left leg to operate a clutch pedal.
We still think the proposals are weak as they will allow 6 or 7 year old commercial vehicles anyway and don't apply to cars. All that will happen is that the tradesmen using 20 year old vans will buy 20 year old diesel estate cars instead. Killing us all with the pollution. |
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"Also re: buying a new car. My car is adapted. I don't claim benefits so this is at my own cost and it's certainly not cheap. It's not just buying a car, but adapting it and I'm also trying to adapt my house (which is very much NOT disability friendly). I earn a decent wage, but not enough to put me in the higher tax bracket, put it that way.
still should get help with adaptions for the home, might be worth having a chat with gp about getting a referral to the occupational therapist, then again i dare say you have done
your quite correct about the system, its a mine field at the best of time. i only got the correct help after chatting to a social worker in a supermarket. "
Oh I've asked for occupational therapy referral. It's been cancelled several times already because I "appear to be coping". I've given up and am getting my bathroom adapted in the new year. It was supposed to be done in December, but the installer cancelled because staff were isolating etc. |
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