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Ignore the science till deaths rise?
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Is that now the governments position given on the 21 September Sage wanted the type of restrictions in tier 3 implemented then plus all university teaching online plus restaurants closed yet they were ignored..? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is that now the governments position given on the 21 September Sage wanted the type of restrictions in tier 3 implemented then plus all university teaching online plus restaurants closed yet they were ignored..?"
SAGE is only one part of the equation. They don't factor in economic costs or consequential social costs from the restrictions they suggest - they are only concerned with the virus.
There MUST be a balance - if you listened only to the epidemiologists we'd all be stuck inside 23 hours a day until the virus was completely gone worldwide - that clearly can't work, so there has to be a measure of restraint & practicality applied to what they suggest. |
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"Is that now the governments position given on the 21 September Sage wanted the type of restrictions in tier 3 implemented then plus all university teaching online plus restaurants closed yet they were ignored..?
SAGE is only one part of the equation. They don't factor in economic costs or consequential social costs from the restrictions they suggest - they are only concerned with the virus.
There MUST be a balance - if you listened only to the epidemiologists we'd all be stuck inside 23 hours a day until the virus was completely gone worldwide - that clearly can't work, so there has to be a measure of restraint & practicality applied to what they suggest."
Very good point and if course that's their position and what they are for although I'm not sure there has been much practical help for some sectors..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is that now the governments position given on the 21 September Sage wanted the type of restrictions in tier 3 implemented then plus all university teaching online plus restaurants closed yet they were ignored..?"
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You don't need to be an expert to say locking everybody in a cupboard will lower sars-cov2 cases.
I'd like some journalism on who is on the sage committee, why do they rotate experts, who appoints them, what other interests do they have, what sort of track record have they produced in the past, what sort of counter evidence do they produce on the problems given with They're recommendations, what sort of comeback is on any of there people?.
Sadly investigative journalism seems to have completely disappeared
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"Is that now the governments position given on the 21 September Sage wanted the type of restrictions in tier 3 implemented then plus all university teaching online plus restaurants closed yet they were ignored..?.
You don't need to be an expert to say locking everybody in a cupboard will lower sars-cov2 cases.
I'd like some journalism on who is on the sage committee, why do they rotate experts, who appoints them, what other interests do they have, what sort of track record have they produced in the past, what sort of counter evidence do they produce on the problems given with They're recommendations, what sort of comeback is on any of there people?.
Sadly investigative journalism seems to have completely disappeared
"
You do know that you could replace sage committee with politicians and serving cabinet ministers etc ..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Very good point and if course that's their position and what they are for although I'm not sure there has been much practical help for some sectors..
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I can tell you from personal experience there has been sweet sod all in the way of support for several sectors! |
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Very good point and if course that's their position and what they are for although I'm not sure there has been much practical help for some sectors..
I can tell you from personal experience there has been sweet sod all in the way of support for several sectors!"
I know from friends it's a mess, no consistency etc
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is that now the governments position given on the 21 September Sage wanted the type of restrictions in tier 3 implemented then plus all university teaching online plus restaurants closed yet they were ignored..?.
You don't need to be an expert to say locking everybody in a cupboard will lower sars-cov2 cases.
I'd like some journalism on who is on the sage committee, why do they rotate experts, who appoints them, what other interests do they have, what sort of track record have they produced in the past, what sort of counter evidence do they produce on the problems given with They're recommendations, what sort of comeback is on any of there people?.
Sadly investigative journalism seems to have completely disappeared
You do know that you could replace sage committee with politicians and serving cabinet ministers etc ..
"
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That wasn't one of the questions I asked though!
I simply wanted journalism on who what when any why, these are people giving advice to government that will effect millions of lives for decades to come and yet there's no scrutiny and worse still no call for scrutiny. |
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Witty basically said today he had zero confidence that the tier 3 rules announced today are going to be enough, and he is right. It will take witnessing high daily deaths and overrun hospitals before the population will accept anything tougher |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hasn't Boris been saying up to now "we follow the science"....
He's been economical with the truth "
No, he is trying to balance the science which would significantly help desk with the virus but would bankrupt everybody, with people screaming at him to reopen everything and get the economy moving again and sod the spread of the disease. |
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By *om girlCouple (FF)
over a year ago
South Yorkshire |
The thing is Sciencetist only forecast what might happen
All if you ask 10 sciencetist ul get a different forecast
Coz they don't put the ones that say we sholuldmt lockdown
Because it's again what message government puts out |
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"Hasn't Boris been saying up to now "we follow the science"....
He's been economical with the truth "
He has as far as he can with keeping things open, the sage science advisors want us all kept apart no matter what the cost to the economy. Its a very fine balance indeed |
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Ignore them until they are needed to have blame projected away from politicians onto them.
When their advice is completely ignored, the government should be honest and explain how many more infections they estimate to result from their strategy. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Hasn't Boris been saying up to now "we follow the science"....
He's been economical with the truth
No, he is trying to balance the science which would significantly help desk with the virus but would bankrupt everybody, with people screaming at him to reopen everything and get the economy moving again and sod the spread of the disease. "
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"Hasn't Boris been saying up to now "we follow the science"....
He's been economical with the truth
No, he is trying to balance the science which would significantly help desk with the virus but would bankrupt everybody, with people screaming at him to reopen everything and get the economy moving again and sod the spread of the disease. "
An optimistic view of someone so far out of his depth its comical. |
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Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless. |
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"Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless."
I thought people had outgrown that rumour by now |
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"Hasn't Boris been saying up to now "we follow the science"....
He's been economical with the truth
No, he is trying to balance the science which would significantly help desk with the virus but would bankrupt everybody, with people screaming at him to reopen everything and get the economy moving again and sod the spread of the disease. "
Pretty much yes, problem for them is we still yet don't have an effective track and trace system after spending millions or even billions.. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke |
This is the way News operates - to go searching for past information and then offer it as 'it could have been the solution in the present'.
Also they don't report why the advice wasn't taken at the time and what balance the advice was against the balance of all the data.
Cherry-picking creates Headlines . . . Headlines creates . . . well you know the rest. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"This is the way News operates - to go searching for past information and then offer it as 'it could have been the solution in the present'.
Also they don't report why the advice wasn't taken at the time and what balance the advice was against the balance of all the data.
Cherry-picking creates Headlines . . . Headlines creates . . . well you know the rest. "
Yep a bit like on here so many experts after the event. |
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"This is the way News operates - to go searching for past information and then offer it as 'it could have been the solution in the present'.
Also they don't report why the advice wasn't taken at the time and what balance the advice was against the balance of all the data.
Cherry-picking creates Headlines . . . Headlines creates . . . well you know the rest. "
It was held back and whilst yes it's about sage's recommendations on the 21 SEP, they only told the media yesterday..
What it and Whitty's comments about tier 3 in the briefing yesterday tells me is that the scientific advisors have little faith in the government not dumping on them later when the death rates are soaring so are getting in early with their opinion..
They know down the line they will be the ones pointed at by the Tories who this far have done the same to the NHS, teachers and you and I..
Anyone but themselves.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is the way News operates - to go searching for past information and then offer it as 'it could have been the solution in the present'.
Also they don't report why the advice wasn't taken at the time and what balance the advice was against the balance of all the data.
Cherry-picking creates Headlines . . . Headlines creates . . . well you know the rest. Yep a bit like on here so many experts after the event."
..
Who's claiming they're an expert?
Look up the word "forum" |
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"Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless.
I thought people had outgrown that rumour by now"
Hardly a rumour https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53443724
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless.
I thought people had outgrown that rumour by now
Hardly a rumour https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53443724
"
That's what I thought |
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"Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless."
A few uninformed people tried making that false claim months ago. It's been a while surfacing again. You do realise it's wrong?  |
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"Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless.
A few uninformed people tried making that false claim months ago. It's been a while surfacing again. You do realise it's wrong? "
What do you mean? It confirmed fact, was all over the news from multiple sources and has never been challenged as wrong.
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"Is that now the governments position given on the 21 September Sage wanted the type of restrictions in tier 3 implemented then plus all university teaching online plus restaurants closed yet they were ignored..?.
You don't need to be an expert to say locking everybody in a cupboard will lower sars-cov2 cases.
I'd like some journalism on who is on the sage committee, why do they rotate experts, who appoints them, what other interests do they have, what sort of track record have they produced in the past, what sort of counter evidence do they produce on the problems given with They're recommendations, what sort of comeback is on any of there people?.
Sadly investigative journalism seems to have completely disappeared
"
Good Post though I'd replace "investigative journalism" with "un biased investigative journalism".... They investigate single click bait easily enough.
I was going to say... You can appear a really expert expert by recommending everyone locks down, airports close, unis and schools close etc.. But it's not practical. "I told you so 3 months ago" is not helpful. As you say, balance with economy and other factors are also important. |
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"Hasn't Boris been saying up to now "we follow the science"....
He's been economical with the truth "
He's a politician... Let's not be naive and think politicians tell the truth.... Least of all BJ. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is that now the governments position given on the 21 September Sage wanted the type of restrictions in tier 3 implemented then plus all university teaching online plus restaurants closed yet they were ignored..?.
You don't need to be an expert to say locking everybody in a cupboard will lower sars-cov2 cases.
I'd like some journalism on who is on the sage committee, why do they rotate experts, who appoints them, what other interests do they have, what sort of track record have they produced in the past, what sort of counter evidence do they produce on the problems given with They're recommendations, what sort of comeback is on any of there people?.
Sadly investigative journalism seems to have completely disappeared
"
The issue is that there are always idiots who will want to have a pop at a member of SAGE. Covid is a massively emotive subject and the experts need to feel safe to give what they believe to be the best advice. They can’t do that if they’re worried about themselves or their family being threatened. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless.
A few uninformed people tried making that false claim months ago. It's been a while surfacing again. You do realise it's wrong?
What do you mean? It confirmed fact, was all over the news from multiple sources and has never been challenged as wrong.
"
"...It confirmed fact..."
----------
Who confirmed it as a fact ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless.
I thought people had outgrown that rumour by now
Hardly a rumour https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53443724
"
From the article you've linked to. Did you bother to read it?
"Figures release from PHE today show that just under 10% of coronavirus deaths in England happened more than 28 days after a positive test.
In almost half of those cases, Covid-19 was recorded as the main cause of death."
In fact, the way deaths were recorded would have made less than a 5% difference at that time. Your post grossly exaggerates the true facts.  |
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"Any response from government has to be proportional.
The death toll may rise but by how much? We can't go by previous figures as you could have been run over by a bus during April/May and if you happened to carry the coronavirus it was put down as a covid death so those figures are meaningless.
A few uninformed people tried making that false claim months ago. It's been a while surfacing again. You do realise it's wrong?
What do you mean? It confirmed fact, was all over the news from multiple sources and has never been challenged as wrong.
"
The 'news' is not the credible source for valid, peer reviewed evidence. |
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