FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Dr David Nabarro from the WHO appealed to world leaders yesterday, to stop "using lockdowns'
Dr David Nabarro from the WHO appealed to world leaders yesterday, to stop "using lockdowns'
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
"Dr David Nabarro from the WHO appealed to world leaders yesterday, telling them to stop "using lockdowns as your primary control method" of the coronavirus. It's all over the international news but has not featured much in the UK news probably due to Boris 3 Tier announcement today. I'm not posting links due to recently getting a forum ban for doing so. If you want links PM me but this info is easy enough to find. It highlights Taiwans success who didn't lockdown like and has a robust Test, Track, Trace system in place instead. Many countries are dealing with covid far better than the UK. We could do well to learn from those countries. KJ" As we don't have an efficient test and trace system in place, your point is moot. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system?" Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ | |||
"Finally. It's about time somebody influential spoke up to stop this madness" We don’t get to hear the opinions,this madness will only end when economic ruin beckons and how long that will take Unknown | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ" Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? | |||
"Dr David Nabarro from the WHO appealed to world leaders yesterday, telling them to stop "using lockdowns as your primary control method" of the coronavirus. It's all over the international news but has not featured much in the UK news probably due to Boris 3 Tier announcement today. I'm not posting links due to recently getting a forum ban for doing so. If you want links PM me but this info is easy enough to find. It highlights Taiwans success who didn't lockdown like and has a robust Test, Track, Trace system in place instead. Many countries are dealing with covid far better than the UK. We could do well to learn from those countries. KJ" He did say that but he also said that lockdowns are appropriate in some circumstances. Now if we can get a robust Test, Track and Trace system in place perhaps we can use that instead of lockdowns? Until then it would extremely foolish to give up on the restrictions. | |||
"Finally. It's about time somebody influential spoke up to stop this madnessWe don’t get to hear the opinions,this madness will only end when economic ruin beckons and how long that will take Unknown" Of course that's what'll happen - only then can the Tory party donors get the public services & utilities flogged off at knock down prices and get even richer.... | |||
| |||
"Dr David Nabarro from the WHO appealed to world leaders yesterday, telling them to stop "using lockdowns as your primary control method" of the coronavirus. It's all over the international news but has not featured much in the UK news probably due to Boris 3 Tier announcement today. I'm not posting links due to recently getting a forum ban for doing so. If you want links PM me but this info is easy enough to find. It highlights Taiwans success who didn't lockdown like and has a robust Test, Track, Trace system in place instead. Many countries are dealing with covid far better than the UK. We could do well to learn from those countries. KJ He did say that but he also said that lockdowns are appropriate in some circumstances. Now if we can get a robust Test, Track and Trace system in place perhaps we can use that instead of lockdowns? Until then it would extremely foolish to give up on the restrictions."  | |||
| |||
"Finally. It's about time somebody influential spoke up to stop this madnessWe don’t get to hear the opinions,this madness will only end when economic ruin beckons and how long that will take Unknown Of course that's what'll happen - only then can the Tory party donors get the public services & utilities flogged off at knock down prices and get even richer.... " so is that the plan across half of europe (who also have local lockdowns) too? | |||
| |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them?" Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ " Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends." The results bug has long since been fixed. | |||
"Dr David Nabarro from the WHO appealed to world leaders yesterday, telling them to stop "using lockdowns as your primary control method" of the coronavirus. It's all over the international news but has not featured much in the UK news probably due to Boris 3 Tier announcement today. I'm not posting links due to recently getting a forum ban for doing so. If you want links PM me but this info is easy enough to find. It highlights Taiwans success who didn't lockdown like and has a robust Test, Track, Trace system in place instead. Many countries are dealing with covid far better than the UK. We could do well to learn from those countries. KJ" Absolutely but unfortunately the alternative is EDUCATION We have had 6 months of trying to educate covidiots who seem too stupid to learn so what then is the alternative ? Schools seem to be leading the way because they can instill some sense of awareness into pupils and it seems to be working. Here's a link showing the data which shows the infections spteading to older more vulnerable age groups particularly in specific areas. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-data-briefing-12-october?utm_source=bae0cf99-424f-4eb1-b96f-65c27f6a4da9&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate | |||
"Finally. It's about time somebody influential spoke up to stop this madnessWe don’t get to hear the opinions,this madness will only end when economic ruin beckons and how long that will take Unknown" Having an opinion is wonderful, having a solution is more beneficial. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. " The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. | |||
| |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data." It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. | |||
| |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them?" Because UK and most of Europe countries are far away behind them | |||
| |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. " Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies." And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. | |||
| |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist." I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health." No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society.  | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society. "Ah now you see that is part of my job, to ensure embarrassing gaffs like that aren’t made. Even the most inexperienced project manager (who shouldn’t get anywhere near a multimillion pound contract) would know that you do not store data on a spreadsheet when there are many database applications that are used across the private and public sectors that are mite suitable. They would also have ensured that the ‘NHS’ app, partly because of the high profile nature of the work, but mainly because its required for basic functionality, would be compatible with the systems used by... you’ve guessed it, the NHS. There is, I’m afraid, no excuse for this sort of incompetence. I’m not seeking to blame individuals here, you understand, but the culture of the company they were working for. That culture being to palm any old shit and junior staff off on NHS projects because they will get the next contract anyway. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them?" * It costs money that's why. Our government is trying to do it the cheap putting it out out haphazardly to private companies some, of who are among Boris's friends | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society. "I think we can all accept that mistakes are made by everyone and that mistakes by a government dealing with something unknown in living memory are inevitable. What is not acceptable, is the number of mistakes made by this particular government, especially when many of them could have been avoided. They often appear to be more interested in handing their pals multi-million pound contracts, for inefficient or non existent services, than they do in bringing this pandemic under control. It's bordering on corruption, and it's inexcusable. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them?" There's a massive difference and I mean massive difference in the way they behave towards government legislation and ruling. We in general don't respect them and lot of that has to do with our personal rights which we generally hold over community and social benefit. Even if we were to use it there would be a massive difference in who would follow it. There's so much evidence already showing many don't self isolate when they should be doing it. In those countries most will wear face masks during winter season to reduce the spread of the common cold and flu. Our behaviour towards those here is very different. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? There's a massive difference and I mean massive difference in the way they behave towards government legislation and ruling. We in general don't respect them and lot of that has to do with our personal rights which we generally hold over community and social benefit. Even if we were to use it there would be a massive difference in who would follow it. There's so much evidence already showing many don't self isolate when they should be doing it. In those countries most will wear face masks during winter season to reduce the spread of the common cold and flu. Our behaviour towards those here is very different." So nothing to do with our system being shoite? | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society.
I think we can all accept that mistakes are made by everyone and that mistakes by a government dealing with something unknown in living memory are inevitable.
What is not acceptable, is the number of mistakes made by this particular government, especially when many of them could have been avoided.
They often appear to be more interested in handing their pals multi-million pound contracts, for inefficient or non existent services, than they do in bringing this pandemic under control.
It's bordering on corruption, and it's inexcusable."Do you honestly think any other British government would have been different? I don't as it's not about a particular party but it's simply western politics that corrupt, the people in it, the culture surrounding western politics and what's acceptable and what can be gained by their position and influence. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? There's a massive difference and I mean massive difference in the way they behave towards government legislation and ruling. We in general don't respect them and lot of that has to do with our personal rights which we generally hold over community and social benefit. Even if we were to use it there would be a massive difference in who would follow it. There's so much evidence already showing many don't self isolate when they should be doing it. In those countries most will wear face masks during winter season to reduce the spread of the common cold and flu. Our behaviour towards those here is very different. So nothing to do with our system being shoite?" Even if they are, people when they are contacted are still not isolating. Therefore a bad system is made worse by intentional non compliance. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? There's a massive difference and I mean massive difference in the way they behave towards government legislation and ruling. We in general don't respect them and lot of that has to do with our personal rights which we generally hold over community and social benefit. Even if we were to use it there would be a massive difference in who would follow it. There's so much evidence already showing many don't self isolate when they should be doing it. In those countries most will wear face masks during winter season to reduce the spread of the common cold and flu. Our behaviour towards those here is very different. So nothing to do with our system being shoite?" Easy to blame the tools, but those using it are the one creating the mess. Even if the tools arent as good as someone else, it generally boils down to how they are used. You can he great tools and those using them decide to not use them properly and you end up with a crap outcome as well. Tools don't make the job, only as effective as the hands they're in. | |||
| |||
Get testing and tracing, with very fast results and people paid 80-100% of income to quarantine, so that they are not forced out to pay living costs that are the highest during winter. Those things will sort out much of the problem. Be critical why we've spent so much time and money and are so awful. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society.
I think we can all accept that mistakes are made by everyone and that mistakes by a government dealing with something unknown in living memory are inevitable.
What is not acceptable, is the number of mistakes made by this particular government, especially when many of them could have been avoided.
They often appear to be more interested in handing their pals multi-million pound contracts, for inefficient or non existent services, than they do in bringing this pandemic under control.
It's bordering on corruption, and it's inexcusable.
Do you honestly think any other British government would have been different? I don't as it's not about a particular party but it's simply western politics that corrupt, the people in it, the culture surrounding western politics and what's acceptable and what can be gained by their position and influence."Do you not think that's a bit of a piss poor excuse? Oh it's ok they all do it. I'm not naive enough to find there has always been corruption in politics.However there are degrees involved here. This lot are mired in it and dont even bother hiding it. Apathy like that just meant we deserve to be ficked over. Look at france..they have a 1 year pay freeze and set the country in fire. We see endemic corruption costing lives and we shrug our shoulders. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society.
I think we can all accept that mistakes are made by everyone and that mistakes by a government dealing with something unknown in living memory are inevitable.
What is not acceptable, is the number of mistakes made by this particular government, especially when many of them could have been avoided.
They often appear to be more interested in handing their pals multi-million pound contracts, for inefficient or non existent services, than they do in bringing this pandemic under control.
It's bordering on corruption, and it's inexcusable.
Do you honestly think any other British government would have been different? I don't as it's not about a particular party but it's simply western politics that corrupt, the people in it, the culture surrounding western politics and what's acceptable and what can be gained by their position and influence."Some governments are more corrupt than others, and our current government is more corrupt than most. This isn't a partisan statement either, because the evidence is there for all to see. The only people who don't see it, are those who don't wish to.  | |||
| |||
" Do you honestly think any other British government would have been different? I don't as it's not about a particular party but it's simply western politics that corrupt, the people in it, the culture surrounding western politics and what's acceptable and what can be gained by their position and influence." I honestly do, as I’ve said earlier this government is so mired in both incompetence and corruption that they can’t hide the latter due to the former. Even the Cameron government would’ve made a better fist of the app as they would’ve at least not sacked all the ministers who knew what they were doing. | |||
| |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society.
I think we can all accept that mistakes are made by everyone and that mistakes by a government dealing with something unknown in living memory are inevitable.
What is not acceptable, is the number of mistakes made by this particular government, especially when many of them could have been avoided.
They often appear to be more interested in handing their pals multi-million pound contracts, for inefficient or non existent services, than they do in bringing this pandemic under control.
It's bordering on corruption, and it's inexcusable.
Do you honestly think any other British government would have been different? I don't as it's not about a particular party but it's simply western politics that corrupt, the people in it, the culture surrounding western politics and what's acceptable and what can be gained by their position and influence.
Do you not think that's a bit of a piss poor excuse?
Oh it's ok they all do it.
I'm not naive enough to find there has always been corruption in politics.However there are degrees involved here.
This lot are mired in it and dont even bother hiding it.
Apathy like that just meant we deserve to be ficked over.
Look at france..they have a 1 year pay freeze and set the country in fire.
We see endemic corruption costing lives and we shrug our shoulders."You isolated the problem to this government, I just asked do you not think it's a wider issue. And no I bet said it implied it was acceptable. That's something you've fabricated. It's so easy to point the finger and the grass seemed greener elsewhere, however you're here, not there. I lived in France for a year and I'll tell you, I'd much rather live here than under their bureaucratic heavy and driconian governance system. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society.
I think we can all accept that mistakes are made by everyone and that mistakes by a government dealing with something unknown in living memory are inevitable.
What is not acceptable, is the number of mistakes made by this particular government, especially when many of them could have been avoided.
They often appear to be more interested in handing their pals multi-million pound contracts, for inefficient or non existent services, than they do in bringing this pandemic under control.
It's bordering on corruption, and it's inexcusable.
Do you honestly think any other British government would have been different? I don't as it's not about a particular party but it's simply western politics that corrupt, the people in it, the culture surrounding western politics and what's acceptable and what can be gained by their position and influence.
Do you not think that's a bit of a piss poor excuse?
Oh it's ok they all do it.
I'm not naive enough to find there has always been corruption in politics.However there are degrees involved here.
This lot are mired in it and dont even bother hiding it.
Apathy like that just meant we deserve to be ficked over.
Look at france..they have a 1 year pay freeze and set the country in fire.
We see endemic corruption costing lives and we shrug our shoulders.
You isolated the problem to this government, I just asked do you not think it's a wider issue. And no I bet said it implied it was acceptable. That's something you've fabricated.
It's so easy to point the finger and the grass seemed greener elsewhere, however you're here, not there. I lived in France for a year and I'll tell you, I'd much rather live here than under their bureaucratic heavy and driconian governance system."The gmnt play a huge part but it's the entire system,I agree. I just thing the widespread apathy gives them carte blanche to do what the fuck the french analogy was more a comparison to their more bolsy nature compared to our passivness. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society.
I think we can all accept that mistakes are made by everyone and that mistakes by a government dealing with something unknown in living memory are inevitable.
What is not acceptable, is the number of mistakes made by this particular government, especially when many of them could have been avoided.
They often appear to be more interested in handing their pals multi-million pound contracts, for inefficient or non existent services, than they do in bringing this pandemic under control.
It's bordering on corruption, and it's inexcusable."I don't always agree with you but I whole heartedly agree with your post above. | |||
"Stupid question..do other countries have an effective track and trace system? Yes absolutely South Korea and Taiwan are just 2 examples. Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. KJ Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them? Yeah the Tory government. They were offered a working, proven system but declined this and instead tendered it out to their buddys, family etc in the private sector. I am not posting links to get banned again but all the info is out there. Look up the deal with Serco as 1 example. They have also at first refused and been totally reluctant to allow local councils (who know their communities better) to complete localized test, track and trace. Where as other countries has made maximum use of their local resources similar to councils, Local health trusts etc and on the ground intelligence. KJ Yep, somewhat ironically for the supposed party of small government the Conservatives have chosen to centralise everything under their control and give it out to their private sector pals. To the extent that the ‘NHS’ tracing app doesn’t accept test results from public sector testing. Rather than use the established local expertise the Conservatives have, as usual, used this as an opportunity to enrich themselves and their friends. The results bug has long since been fixed. The point is not whether it has been fixed or not, but that no one even thought about the app being able to accept results from tests conducted by the NHS. And let’s not get started on using Excel 2007 to store data. It is exactly the point that it has been fixed, you presented a statement as fact, this was demonstrably false at the time you made it. You use old information as a stick to beat the government with about the current situation. Is their IT perfect? No, is anyone's in the world? No. Other countries are doing better but not without issues. For example, the take up of the tracking app for phones in Singapore has been so poor due to privacy concerns, they have had to produce separate electronic tags people can carry with them to do this job in a stand alone fashion. Are you really so desperate to defend the government? That the NHS app cannot accept results from NHS tests is more than embarrassing, it’s more than an IT error. It’s indicative of the priorities of a government which farms things out to the private sector because of the supposed efficiency but which in fact cares so little for anything other than profit it doesn’t even consider that it should have the capability to accept NHS test results. It’s the latest in a long line of fuck ups from a government that has purged itself of any of its capable members because of their thought crimes and dismisses out of hand the expertise of the civil service so it can line the pockets of its cronies. And again, I will clarify for you, the app can accept test results from the NHS services and the 3rd party companies that are processing tests on their behalf. Therefore you are protesting about a point that doesn't exist. I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you have difficulty with comprehension so I’ll say it again, slowly. When the ‘NHS’ app was introduced, after being developed by the private sector, it could not accept results from NHS tests. Also the data was being stored on an Excel 2007 spreadsheet. I purport that this is indicative of the private sector’s attitude of profit being the only concern. Which is why they should not have any involvement in things so important to our nation’s health. No that's better, you are stating actual facts. Now, let's fully understand that this issue was corrected within days of being launched and is no longer an issue. Is it good this bug was there, no, does it happen with major software applications, yes, daily. As for the Excel issue, this again happens frequently in many private enterprises, again it shouldn't, but it does. Multiple people reviewed and missed it. Perhaps you should apply for a job there so you can identify all these things before any more embarrassing gaffs are made. People having an unrealistic expectation that absolutely no mistake must be made ever by any human is becoming a reoccurring issue with all aspects of current society.
I think we can all accept that mistakes are made by everyone and that mistakes by a government dealing with something unknown in living memory are inevitable.
What is not acceptable, is the number of mistakes made by this particular government, especially when many of them could have been avoided.
They often appear to be more interested in handing their pals multi-million pound contracts, for inefficient or non existent services, than they do in bringing this pandemic under control.
It's bordering on corruption, and it's inexcusable.
Do you honestly think any other British government would have been different? I don't as it's not about a particular party but it's simply western politics that corrupt, the people in it, the culture surrounding western politics and what's acceptable and what can be gained by their position and influence.
Do you not think that's a bit of a piss poor excuse?
Oh it's ok they all do it.
I'm not naive enough to find there has always been corruption in politics.However there are degrees involved here.
This lot are mired in it and dont even bother hiding it.
Apathy like that just meant we deserve to be ficked over.
Look at france..they have a 1 year pay freeze and set the country in fire.
We see endemic corruption costing lives and we shrug our shoulders.
You isolated the problem to this government, I just asked do you not think it's a wider issue. And no I bet said it implied it was acceptable. That's something you've fabricated.
It's so easy to point the finger and the grass seemed greener elsewhere, however you're here, not there. I lived in France for a year and I'll tell you, I'd much rather live here than under their bureaucratic heavy and driconian governance system.
The gmnt play a huge part but it's the entire system,I agree.
I just thing the widespread apathy gives them carte blanche to do what the fuck the french analogy was more a comparison to their more bolsy nature compared to our passivness."Agree the French are more militant. When they strike, the country comes to a standstill and they will often get what they want. Much more aggressive. Not sure I would adhere to the bully forceful tactics they use though. It's also reflected in the society and governance of the country. They do however work together for a cause far better than us. | |||
"£Several billions remain unaccounted for by the government, for private contracts made without competitive tendering. Meanwhile Dido, head of test and trace, the wife of a Conservative MP, gets promoted to manage more of our health services, because she'd made us world beating enough. We've had months to prepare for test and tracing to work well, ready for autumn and winter
Get testing and tracing, with very fast results and people paid 80-100% of income to quarantine, so that they are not forced out to pay living costs that are the highest during winter. Those things will sort out much of the problem. Be critical why we've spent so much time and money and are so awful. "I don't always agree with your standpoint Sophie although I do respect your views, posts, your opinions, the fact you do peer research, your analysis of available data and how you articulate your stance. Much better than those on the other side of the covid argument who just shout about covidiots, blame the youth of today and bring nothing else to the debate. I also 100% agree with your post above as well | |||
| |||
"Lockdowns do not, never have and never will solve the problem. That's what's at the root of the statement. They are a blunt instrument, regardless of how you wield them and really have no place as a long term measure - they are for emergency intervention only. We have wasted millions of pounds but worse, months of precious time dithering, tinkering, hoping and doing what we seem to do best - screwing up the basics. Our governments (all of them) have some very serious questions to answer that they are now actively evading. - Why do we still not have a robust, convenient, reliable, fast and on-demand testing system when it was recognized as far back as April that testing was one of the very few truly effective and sustainable ways to combat the virus? - Why has there still been no progress towards indicative, at home testing fro Covid - the technology exists but it's stuck in red tape. - Why did we not use the summer period to introduce mass testing for all contacts instead of insisting on testing only the symptomatic - Why is track & trace being farmed out to call centers, some of which are manned by staff with literally NO training who are just following computerized scripts? (and I can say from first hand knowledge this is happening north & south of the border) - Why have we not legislated for 100% pay for those required by law to isolate with employers recovering the cost from government? - Why, over 6 months from closure are entire industries still sitting in limbo with no idea when or even if they will ever be allowed to reopen? - Why are certain politicians, who committed clear breaches of the law, not facing criminal sanctions (or indeed any sanctions at all) while ordinary people are being fined left right and center? It's time we ALL started asking these questions because whichever side of the lockdown/restrictions debate you're on our government is spending more time & money serving itself than serving us." When this is all over there needs to be a thorough investigation into every aspect of the handling of this situation. Fat chance like. | |||
"Lockdowns do not, never have and never will solve the problem. That's what's at the root of the statement. They are a blunt instrument, regardless of how you wield them and really have no place as a long term measure - they are for emergency intervention only. We have wasted millions of pounds but worse, months of precious time dithering, tinkering, hoping and doing what we seem to do best - screwing up the basics. Our governments (all of them) have some very serious questions to answer that they are now actively evading. - Why do we still not have a robust, convenient, reliable, fast and on-demand testing system when it was recognized as far back as April that testing was one of the very few truly effective and sustainable ways to combat the virus? - Why has there still been no progress towards indicative, at home testing fro Covid - the technology exists but it's stuck in red tape. - Why did we not use the summer period to introduce mass testing for all contacts instead of insisting on testing only the symptomatic - Why is track & trace being farmed out to call centers, some of which are manned by staff with literally NO training who are just following computerized scripts? (and I can say from first hand knowledge this is happening north & south of the border) - Why have we not legislated for 100% pay for those required by law to isolate with employers recovering the cost from government? - Why, over 6 months from closure are entire industries still sitting in limbo with no idea when or even if they will ever be allowed to reopen? - Why are certain politicians, who committed clear breaches of the law, not facing criminal sanctions (or indeed any sanctions at all) while ordinary people are being fined left right and center? It's time we ALL started asking these questions because whichever side of the lockdown/restrictions debate you're on our government is spending more time & money serving itself than serving us." They spent a fortune and bankrupt half the country telling people lockdowns work, they don't, there's no science that suggest they do loads of papers have been done all through the summer showing the maths of lockdowns don't work, that's why even the who are calling bullshit on them but alas now there just doubling down on there original bullshit that they work, it's fail safe, if cases go up lockdown was lockdown enough, if they go down then it worked, it's just more nonsense for gullible fools who look no further than the BBC's propaganda division. | |||
"Lockdowns do not, never have and never will solve the problem. That's what's at the root of the statement. They are a blunt instrument, regardless of how you wield them and really have no place as a long term measure - they are for emergency intervention only. We have wasted millions of pounds but worse, months of precious time dithering, tinkering, hoping and doing what we seem to do best - screwing up the basics. Our governments (all of them) have some very serious questions to answer that they are now actively evading. - Why do we still not have a robust, convenient, reliable, fast and on-demand testing system when it was recognized as far back as April that testing was one of the very few truly effective and sustainable ways to combat the virus? - Why has there still been no progress towards indicative, at home testing fro Covid - the technology exists but it's stuck in red tape. - Why did we not use the summer period to introduce mass testing for all contacts instead of insisting on testing only the symptomatic - Why is track & trace being farmed out to call centers, some of which are manned by staff with literally NO training who are just following computerized scripts? (and I can say from first hand knowledge this is happening north & south of the border) - Why have we not legislated for 100% pay for those required by law to isolate with employers recovering the cost from government? - Why, over 6 months from closure are entire industries still sitting in limbo with no idea when or even if they will ever be allowed to reopen? - Why are certain politicians, who committed clear breaches of the law, not facing criminal sanctions (or indeed any sanctions at all) while ordinary people are being fined left right and center? It's time we ALL started asking these questions because whichever side of the lockdown/restrictions debate you're on our government is spending more time & money serving itself than serving us. They spent a fortune and bankrupt half the country telling people lockdowns work, they don't, there's no science that suggest they do loads of papers have been done all through the summer showing the maths of lockdowns don't work, that's why even the who are calling bullshit on them but alas now there just doubling down on there original bullshit that they work, it's fail safe, if cases go up lockdown was lockdown enough, if they go down then it worked, it's just more nonsense for gullible fools who look no further than the BBC's propaganda division." "...telling people lockdowns work, they don't..." --------------------------- Lockdowns work. The Lockdown we had in March did flatten the curve. Daily infections were reduced, hospitalisations were reduced and covid deaths reduced. Also, Dr Nabarro of the WHO does support lockdowns in some scenarios. Only thing is lockdown should not be used as a permanent measure. When you come out of lockdown other measures need to be used to control the spread of the virus. The announcements today are not another lockdown. They are just measures and restrictions to control the spread of the virus. These current measures are the best balance between having a total lockdown and letting the virus run wild throughout society. | |||
"Lockdowns do not, never have and never will solve the problem. That's what's at the root of the statement. They are a blunt instrument, regardless of how you wield them and really have no place as a long term measure - they are for emergency intervention only. We have wasted millions of pounds but worse, months of precious time dithering, tinkering, hoping and doing what we seem to do best - screwing up the basics. Our governments (all of them) have some very serious questions to answer that they are now actively evading. - Why do we still not have a robust, convenient, reliable, fast and on-demand testing system when it was recognized as far back as April that testing was one of the very few truly effective and sustainable ways to combat the virus? - Why has there still been no progress towards indicative, at home testing fro Covid - the technology exists but it's stuck in red tape. - Why did we not use the summer period to introduce mass testing for all contacts instead of insisting on testing only the symptomatic - Why is track & trace being farmed out to call centers, some of which are manned by staff with literally NO training who are just following computerized scripts? (and I can say from first hand knowledge this is happening north & south of the border) - Why have we not legislated for 100% pay for those required by law to isolate with employers recovering the cost from government? - Why, over 6 months from closure are entire industries still sitting in limbo with no idea when or even if they will ever be allowed to reopen? - Why are certain politicians, who committed clear breaches of the law, not facing criminal sanctions (or indeed any sanctions at all) while ordinary people are being fined left right and center? It's time we ALL started asking these questions because whichever side of the lockdown/restrictions debate you're on our government is spending more time & money serving itself than serving us. They spent a fortune and bankrupt half the country telling people lockdowns work, they don't, there's no science that suggest they do loads of papers have been done all through the summer showing the maths of lockdowns don't work, that's why even the who are calling bullshit on them but alas now there just doubling down on there original bullshit that they work, it's fail safe, if cases go up lockdown was lockdown enough, if they go down then it worked, it's just more nonsense for gullible fools who look no further than the BBC's propaganda division. "...telling people lockdowns work, they don't..." --------------------------- Lockdowns work. The Lockdown we had in March did flatten the curve. Daily infections were reduced, hospitalisations were reduced and covid deaths reduced. Also, Dr Nabarro of the WHO does support lockdowns in some scenarios. Only thing is lockdown should not be used as a permanent measure. When you come out of lockdown other measures need to be used to control the spread of the virus. The announcements today are not another lockdown. They are just measures and restrictions to control the spread of the virus. These current measures are the best balance between having a total lockdown and letting the virus run wild throughout society. " . There's Literally no tangible evidence that lockdowns prevent an airborne endemic virus from doing what there going to do, what he actually said is it's a last resort to stop your health service collapsing but there unsustainable in any long term measure, IE too many people have to go to work to make a country function at a minimum level to stop it in its track so all it does is cause a temporary dip in its track, alas it also causes massive economic and physical harm to society in general that lasts way beyond your advantage in infections rates. The question should always have been how do we get out of this cycle long term and the only possible solution is shielding the vulnerable while allowing those at minimum risk to carry on with economic activity that would allow us to pay for the cost of this Pandemic and shielding. | |||
"Lockdowns do not, never have and never will solve the problem. That's what's at the root of the statement. They are a blunt instrument, regardless of how you wield them and really have no place as a long term measure - they are for emergency intervention only. We have wasted millions of pounds but worse, months of precious time dithering, tinkering, hoping and doing what we seem to do best - screwing up the basics. Our governments (all of them) have some very serious questions to answer that they are now actively evading. - Why do we still not have a robust, convenient, reliable, fast and on-demand testing system when it was recognized as far back as April that testing was one of the very few truly effective and sustainable ways to combat the virus? - Why has there still been no progress towards indicative, at home testing fro Covid - the technology exists but it's stuck in red tape. - Why did we not use the summer period to introduce mass testing for all contacts instead of insisting on testing only the symptomatic - Why is track & trace being farmed out to call centers, some of which are manned by staff with literally NO training who are just following computerized scripts? (and I can say from first hand knowledge this is happening north & south of the border) - Why have we not legislated for 100% pay for those required by law to isolate with employers recovering the cost from government? - Why, over 6 months from closure are entire industries still sitting in limbo with no idea when or even if they will ever be allowed to reopen? - Why are certain politicians, who committed clear breaches of the law, not facing criminal sanctions (or indeed any sanctions at all) while ordinary people are being fined left right and center? It's time we ALL started asking these questions because whichever side of the lockdown/restrictions debate you're on our government is spending more time & money serving itself than serving us. They spent a fortune and bankrupt half the country telling people lockdowns work, they don't, there's no science that suggest they do loads of papers have been done all through the summer showing the maths of lockdowns don't work, that's why even the who are calling bullshit on them but alas now there just doubling down on there original bullshit that they work, it's fail safe, if cases go up lockdown was lockdown enough, if they go down then it worked, it's just more nonsense for gullible fools who look no further than the BBC's propaganda division. "...telling people lockdowns work, they don't..." --------------------------- Lockdowns work. The Lockdown we had in March did flatten the curve. Daily infections were reduced, hospitalisations were reduced and covid deaths reduced. Also, Dr Nabarro of the WHO does support lockdowns in some scenarios. Only thing is lockdown should not be used as a permanent measure. When you come out of lockdown other measures need to be used to control the spread of the virus. The announcements today are not another lockdown. They are just measures and restrictions to control the spread of the virus. These current measures are the best balance between having a total lockdown and letting the virus run wild throughout society. . There's Literally no tangible evidence that lockdowns prevent an airborne endemic virus from doing what there going to do, what he actually said is it's a last resort to stop your health service collapsing but there unsustainable in any long term measure, IE too many people have to go to work to make a country function at a minimum level to stop it in its track so all it does is cause a temporary dip in its track, alas it also causes massive economic and physical harm to society in general that lasts way beyond your advantage in infections rates. The question should always have been how do we get out of this cycle long term and the only possible solution is shielding the vulnerable while allowing those at minimum risk to carry on with economic activity that would allow us to pay for the cost of this Pandemic and shielding." "...what he actually said is it's a last resort to stop your health service collapsing..." ------------------- And that's your evidence regarding a scenario where lockdown works. And lockdown worked for us in that regard when we locked down in March. As I pointed out to you Boris did not initiate another lockdown, all he announced were restrictions to control the spread of the virus. You also say : "how do we get out of this cycle long term and the only possible solution is shielding the vulnerable while allowing those at minimum risk to carry on with economic activity.." Your suggestion above creates as much problems as a full lockdown. Dr Nabarro had this to say : "A middle path is needed…. Too many restrictions damage people’s livelihoods and provoke resentment. ‘Virus run wild’ will lead to lots of deaths as well as debilitating long-Covid among younger people." The 'Middle Path' Nabarro talked about is what Boris has taken today. | |||
"Ours is an absolute shambles in comparison. ... Is there a reason we couldn't use the same system as them?" Yes. It would not make enough money for private firms and individuals. It's funny how Boris says "NHS Track and trace" enough that people just believe him! Even if it was truly an NHS app, even The Times have reported that our private data is being passed on to interested parties. | |||
| |||
"Not everyone agrees that lockdowns are a bad idea. It is mismanaged lockdowns as the only response which is foolish. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54518002" Agree with this and add, the real problem is us as individuals in society. Too selfish to help others over our own interests. It's "all about me' society, my feelings, my needs and anyone's is second place. Infringement on my personal rights, and this unfortunately is where that thinking leads us too. A broken society than cannot work together for the good of others first. The cultures that demonstrate a greater respect towards others are the ones that seem to be doing better. Track and trace, testing, appropriate mask covering, washing of hands, social distancing etc only work if the people respect and respond how they should. Sadly putting ourselves second to others isn't an option for many as has been clearly demonstrated. If they did, then lockdown wouldn't be as necessary an option as it is. | |||
"Lockdowns do not, never have and never will solve the problem. That's what's at the root of the statement. They are a blunt instrument, regardless of how you wield them and really have no place as a long term measure - they are for emergency intervention only. We have wasted millions of pounds but worse, months of precious time dithering, tinkering, hoping and doing what we seem to do best - screwing up the basics. Our governments (all of them) have some very serious questions to answer that they are now actively evading. - Why do we still not have a robust, convenient, reliable, fast and on-demand testing system when it was recognized as far back as April that testing was one of the very few truly effective and sustainable ways to combat the virus? - Why has there still been no progress towards indicative, at home testing fro Covid - the technology exists but it's stuck in red tape. - Why did we not use the summer period to introduce mass testing for all contacts instead of insisting on testing only the symptomatic - Why is track & trace being farmed out to call centers, some of which are manned by staff with literally NO training who are just following computerized scripts? (and I can say from first hand knowledge this is happening north & south of the border) - Why have we not legislated for 100% pay for those required by law to isolate with employers recovering the cost from government? - Why, over 6 months from closure are entire industries still sitting in limbo with no idea when or even if they will ever be allowed to reopen? - Why are certain politicians, who committed clear breaches of the law, not facing criminal sanctions (or indeed any sanctions at all) while ordinary people are being fined left right and center? It's time we ALL started asking these questions because whichever side of the lockdown/restrictions debate you're on our government is spending more time & money serving itself than serving us."
Yet there's still posters who have bought in to the goverments propaganda that the virus spread is down to selfish individuals breaking the rules.
There will always be a small minority who for whatever reason break the rules that's life and its the same in France, Germany etc they have all had the same protests at restrictions etc.
Looking at the 'covidiot' comments and blaming of students, the young etc is sad how many have bought into the blame game. Good old divde and conquer at play.
In a country of 70 million people your always going to find a few examples of a house party where a 10k fine was issued. It's not hard for the news outlets to focus on the small majority of rule breakers to make it seem like they are the whole reason for the pandemic spreading.
Look at Germany almost 15 million more people than the UK. They have had similar rule breaking instances to the UK, including anti lockdown and covid measures protests.
The difference is their leader has a science background for starters and they have implemented proper, effective, fit for purpose measures without anything close to the amount of mistakes our government has made that the poster I quoted has highlighted.
This is clearly reflected in Germanys infection rates and death rates compared to the UK.
KJ | |||
"Lockdowns do not, never have and never will solve the problem. That's what's at the root of the statement. They are a blunt instrument, regardless of how you wield them and really have no place as a long term measure - they are for emergency intervention only. We have wasted millions of pounds but worse, months of precious time dithering, tinkering, hoping and doing what we seem to do best - screwing up the basics. Our governments (all of them) have some very serious questions to answer that they are now actively evading. - Why do we still not have a robust, convenient, reliable, fast and on-demand testing system when it was recognized as far back as April that testing was one of the very few truly effective and sustainable ways to combat the virus? - Why has there still been no progress towards indicative, at home testing fro Covid - the technology exists but it's stuck in red tape. - Why did we not use the summer period to introduce mass testing for all contacts instead of insisting on testing only the symptomatic - Why is track & trace being farmed out to call centers, some of which are manned by staff with literally NO training who are just following computerized scripts? (and I can say from first hand knowledge this is happening north & south of the border) - Why have we not legislated for 100% pay for those required by law to isolate with employers recovering the cost from government? - Why, over 6 months from closure are entire industries still sitting in limbo with no idea when or even if they will ever be allowed to reopen? - Why are certain politicians, who committed clear breaches of the law, not facing criminal sanctions (or indeed any sanctions at all) while ordinary people are being fined left right and center? It's time we ALL started asking these questions because whichever side of the lockdown/restrictions debate you're on our government is spending more time & money serving itself than serving us.
Yet there's still posters who have bought in to the goverments propaganda that the virus spread is down to selfish individuals breaking the rules.
There will always be a small minority who for whatever reason break the rules that's life and its the same in France, Germany etc they have all had the same protests at restrictions etc.
Looking at the 'covidiot' comments and blaming of students, the young etc is sad how many have bought into the blame game. Good old divde and conquer at play.
In a country of 70 million people your always going to find a few examples of a house party where a 10k fine was issued. It's not hard for the news outlets to focus on the small majority of rule breakers to make it seem like they are the whole reason for the pandemic spreading.
Look at Germany almost 15 million more people than the UK. They have had similar rule breaking instances to the UK, including anti lockdown and covid measures protests.
The difference is their leader has a science background for starters and they have implemented proper, effective, fit for purpose measures without anything close to the amount of mistakes our government has made that the poster I quoted has highlighted.
This is clearly reflected in Germanys infection rates and death rates compared to the UK.
KJ""...This is clearly reflected in Germanys infection rates and death rates compared to the UK...." -------------------------- No society is 100% perfect, but as someone who has spent some time living in Germany, I can tell you that Germans have a higher level of compliance to rules and regulations than we are in the UK. | |||
"Not everyone agrees that lockdowns are a bad idea. It is mismanaged lockdowns as the only response which is foolish. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54518002 Agree with this and add, the real problem is us as individuals in society. Too selfish to help others over our own interests. It's "all about me' society, my feelings, my needs and anyone's is second place. Infringement on my personal rights, and this unfortunately is where that thinking leads us too. A broken society than cannot work together for the good of others first. The cultures that demonstrate a greater respect towards others are the ones that seem to be doing better. Track and trace, testing, appropriate mask covering, washing of hands, social distancing etc only work if the people respect and respond how they should. Sadly putting ourselves second to others isn't an option for many as has been clearly demonstrated. If they did, then lockdown wouldn't be as necessary an option as it is. " Spot on with everything said above. | |||
" Even if it was truly an NHS app, even The Times have reported that our private data is being passed on to interested parties. " The data they were talking about is the contact information given to the pubs, not information out of the NHS track and trace data. | |||
"Not everyone agrees that lockdowns are a bad idea. It is mismanaged lockdowns as the only response which is foolish. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54518002 Agree with this and add, the real problem is us as individuals in society. Too selfish to help others over our own interests. It's "all about me' society, my feelings, my needs and anyone's is second place. Infringement on my personal rights, and this unfortunately is where that thinking leads us too. A broken society than cannot work together for the good of others first. The cultures that demonstrate a greater respect towards others are the ones that seem to be doing better. Track and trace, testing, appropriate mask covering, washing of hands, social distancing etc only work if the people respect and respond how they should. Sadly putting ourselves second to others isn't an option for many as has been clearly demonstrated. If they did, then lockdown wouldn't be as necessary an option as it is. " . Which cultures do you think are best?. | |||
