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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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there has to be.. hugging needs to return asap. there needs to be a cut off point.. imagine our kids growing up in this world and all these masks and plastic sheeting not good for environment. There needs to be a world summit to agree on a world wide time table imo |
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"Will we evere go back to normality?
Or will we just learn a new normal and like it or lump it just get on with a new normal "
Like pre-covid ? No.
What we will do, and humans are remarkably adept at and resilient to, is adapting to a changed environment.
It's why we are the dominant species on the planet. We have overcome so many natural and man-made disasters that would have ended (and have ended) other species, proving time and again our natural resilience and the indomitable will to survive.
Will things return to exactly as they were pre-covid ? No, I don't think so.
But neither do I think we should fear the new normal, because it is a positive vector as a survival response.
In other words, it's the rope ladder suddenly dangled in to your sinking dinghy. It's the fire escape you find in a smoke-filled burning building. It's the glimmer of hope and a different way out of this mess.
We will learn, and adapt, and overcome.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There has never been a cure for the flu and like the flu covid19 may always be around.
I chatted today with friends of a family who had the virus and some of them felt ill whilst others felt fine.
It seems very strange how it affects people differently. |
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"Will we evere go back to normality?
Or will we just learn a new normal and like it or lump it just get on with a new normal
Like pre-covid ? No.
What we will do, and humans are remarkably adept at and resilient to, is adapting to a changed environment.
It's why we are the dominant species on the planet. We have overcome so many natural and man-made disasters that would have ended (and have ended) other species, proving time and again our natural resilience and the indomitable will to survive.
Will things return to exactly as they were pre-covid ? No, I don't think so.
But neither do I think we should fear the new normal, because it is a positive vector as a survival response.
In other words, it's the rope ladder suddenly dangled in to your sinking dinghy. It's the fire escape you find in a smoke-filled burning building. It's the glimmer of hope and a different way out of this mess.
We will learn, and adapt, and overcome.
"
We will learn and adapt yes, over come no. Accept that our lifespan has been shortened yes |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
I think some things are here to stay for a while (we'll still see people in face coverings and hand sanitizer stations for example) but I can't see people tolerating the current restrictions for a prolonged period of time. I think Covid will be with us for a long time but will die down and become just another illness.
Humans are social creatures and physical contact/interaction is an unalienable part of this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think some things are here to stay for a while (we'll still see people in face coverings and hand sanitizer stations for example) but I can't see people tolerating the current restrictions for a prolonged period of time. I think Covid will be with us for a long time but will die down and become just another illness.
Humans are social creatures and physical contact/interaction is an unalienable part of this."
This  |
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"I think some things are here to stay for a while (we'll still see people in face coverings and hand sanitizer stations for example) but I can't see people tolerating the current restrictions for a prolonged period of time. I think Covid will be with us for a long time but will die down and become just another illness.
Humans are social creatures and physical contact/interaction is an unalienable part of this."
I do foresee some folks permanently adopting masks when out and about as they do in certain Asian countries (eg, S Korea, China, Thailand, Japan).
It's considered extremely selfish not to wear masks in the aforementioned countries. Not because of the initial reasons why such masks were worn (air pollution), but ever since SARS in 2002 it's become expected and part of the zeitgeist that prevails today. Normalised even.
I suspect some of us will follow suit. I can think of no better way to try and protect others from any germs I may harbour by using a mask. (Actually I can. Stay at home. Which I have done since March and only ventured out once for a medical appointment).
Furthermore, what I can see happening is a polarisation of society. In some cases subtle, in other cases more overt.
A polarisation split down 2 camps.
1. Those who have the virus. Or are suspected of having the virus. Or have been in contact with someone who had the virus. Or engage in risk-taking behaviour placing them at increased chances of being exposed to the virus.
2. Those who are virus-free. And those who are prepared to curtail their activities to decrease their exposure to the virus. Who take precautions.
These two groups will polarise and harden in opinions. They will adopt their own group rules. Set their own agendas. Enforce their own measures.
Sounds far-fetched ?
A reading of William Golding's "Lord Of the Flies" should give you some idea as to how 2 polarised groups exist within a survival scenario.
Can't see polarised groups emerging in our nation ?
We have plenty of existing ones..(other countries added as well)
Conservative / Labour
Republican / Democrat
Climate Change Supporters / Deniers
Brexit / Remain
School of Opinion / School of Science
and so on..
As the OP said, humans are social creatures (mostly anyway). We organise around social lines but still have our own demarcations. And those demarcations are where the cracks appear and the polarisation begins.
I believe something will emerge, and taken to extreme it will be quite dystopian in outlook and practice.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Infringing on our human rights.
Whilst earning over £80k and taking £134k expenses
Taking £3300 PAY RISE... Is that alone normal.
They cannot detain us they are breaking human right laws.
Flu vaccinations have proven to be ineffective. By the BMJ and I am going on their conference in 2 days time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I suspect there will be a level of change - people will be more conscious of their own personal hygiene and the risk they pose to others for a considerable time to come.
The 'office cold' will become as socially unacceptable as driving while d*unk with both peer pressure and pressure from employers encouraging those who are at all sick to stay away from the workplace.
Working from home & associated flexible working times will be more prevalent in many occupations leading to a better work/life balance for many.
Cities will become less desirable places to live as the imperative of being close to the office lessens. City housing prices may well decline sharply, especially where property is valued only because of it's proximity to commerce.
Population density will decrease in urban areas over time as more people move further afield in search of space. Rural/suburban housing will become more desirable and expensive.
Social events will be generally smaller and more infrequent although they will still take place. The era of 400 or 500 guests at a wedding is over.
Large scale events (concerts, festivals etc.) will struggle in the short term. Some will not survive as attendances fall and costs rise. People will be more selective, attending less events overall.
There will be a significant shift in the night-time economy away from densely packed venues and a heavy reliance on alcohol. Many venues will not survive and those that do will survive in a very different form.
Those are just some of the things I see as likely...I'm sure there are more. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Infringing on our human rights.
Whilst earning over £80k and taking £134k expenses
Taking £3300 PAY RISE... Is that alone normal.
They cannot detain us they are breaking human right laws.
Flu vaccinations have proven to be ineffective. By the BMJ and I am going on their conference in 2 days time "
We're not being detained |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Will we evere go back to normality?
Or will we just learn a new normal and like it or lump it just get on with a new normal "
When the government adopts/ copies an elimination strategy to the high standards of places like South East Asian / Pacific countries.
If you have friends in Australia or Nz - call them and ask for an insight.
Normal life has returned there by and large-
See the Australia v All Blacks match in Wellington
Full house/ no masks/ everyone having a ball. That’s normal to me. |
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"Infringing on our human rights.
Whilst earning over £80k and taking £134k expenses
Taking £3300 PAY RISE... Is that alone normal.
They cannot detain us they are breaking human right laws.
Flu vaccinations have proven to be ineffective. By the BMJ and I am going on their conference in 2 days time "
Maybe we would find better candidates standing for parliament if we paid those running the country better than footballers and TV presenters. High end company executives who can analyse options and make the right decisions, people who get things done, they get multi million packages. Pay peanuts get monkeys  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Will we evere go back to normality?
Or will we just learn a new normal and like it or lump it just get on with a new normal
When the government adopts/ copies an elimination strategy to the high standards of places like South East Asian / Pacific countries.
If you have friends in Australia or Nz - call them and ask for an insight.
Normal life has returned there by and large-
See the Australia v All Blacks match in Wellington
Full house/ no masks/ everyone having a ball. That’s normal to me."
Easy if you're largely self-sufficient like they are. We aren't. How do you suggest we feed the country without importing food because we've closed the border to eliminate covid? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Maybe we would find better candidates standing for parliament if we paid those running the country better than footballers and TV presenters. High end company executives who can analyse options and make the right decisions, people who get things done, they get multi million packages. Pay peanuts get monkeys "
It's not all money. It's is known as public service for a reason - the problem is that somewhere through the years the concept of public service morphed into 'self service' (and serve a few close pals/contributors while you're at it).
If we want proper, honest, genuine representation then we need to eliminate the opportunities for 'public servants' to help themselves. |
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"Infringing on our human rights.
Whilst earning over £80k and taking £134k expenses
Taking £3300 PAY RISE... Is that alone normal.
They cannot detain us they are breaking human right laws.
Flu vaccinations have proven to be ineffective. By the BMJ and I am going on their conference in 2 days time "
The BMJ have never proven anything, they are publishers not researchers. |
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"
Maybe we would find better candidates standing for parliament if we paid those running the country better than footballers and TV presenters. High end company executives who can analyse options and make the right decisions, people who get things done, they get multi million packages. Pay peanuts get monkeys
It's not all money. It's is known as public service for a reason - the problem is that somewhere through the years the concept of public service morphed into 'self service' (and serve a few close pals/contributors while you're at it).
If we want proper, honest, genuine representation then we need to eliminate the opportunities for 'public servants' to help themselves."
Remember to shout out public services isn’t about the money when nurses and other public sector workers are asking for a pay rise  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Will we evere go back to normality?
Or will we just learn a new normal and like it or lump it just get on with a new normal
When the government adopts/ copies an elimination strategy to the high standards of places like South East Asian / Pacific countries.
If you have friends in Australia or Nz - call them and ask for an insight.
Normal life has returned there by and large-
See the Australia v All Blacks match in Wellington
Full house/ no masks/ everyone having a ball. That’s normal to me.
Easy if you're largely self-sufficient like they are. We aren't. How do you suggest we feed the country without importing food because we've closed the border to eliminate covid?"
No need to close borders- cross border travellers should be tested weekly ( like those in sport) -allows travelling. We would not starve |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Remember to shout out public services isn’t about the money when nurses and other public sector workers are asking for a pay rise"
Not what I said, as well you know. I referred to public servants, not public services (which I agree have been criminally underfunded & mismanaged for many years) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
No need to close borders- cross border travellers should be tested weekly ( like those in sport) -allows travelling. We would not starve"
Sorry, the facts simply don't back that up.
It's possible to test negative on Monday while incubating the infection, become infectious on Tuesday and have a full 5 days more before the next test to spread the disease.
As both Australia & New Zealand know it only takes one case to start the whole ball rolling all over again.
Both of them have strict inbound quarantine, with no exceptions aside from (perhaps) travelers from the other nation (I'm not sure if that's been agreed/is operational yet) |
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"Will we evere go back to normality?
Or will we just learn a new normal and like it or lump it just get on with a new normal
When the government adopts/ copies an elimination strategy to the high standards of places like South East Asian / Pacific countries.
If you have friends in Australia or Nz - call them and ask for an insight.
Normal life has returned there by and large-
See the Australia v All Blacks match in Wellington
Full house/ no masks/ everyone having a ball. That’s normal to me."
Apples and oranges! Sure we could have locked down all flights and ports from mid January and kept them shut... we would still be putting out the fires from the rioting. Oz and NZ closed borders before they had many cases on their shores. Low population density, Southern Hemisphere summer and hard tracing and isolation measures nipped it in the bud. with no herd immunity being built up they will have to keep their boarders as good as sealed until a vaccine arrives |
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"
Remember to shout out public services isn’t about the money when nurses and other public sector workers are asking for a pay rise
Not what I said, as well you know. I referred to public servants, not public services (which I agree have been criminally underfunded & mismanaged for many years)"
Both MPs and nurses are employed as public servants providing public services |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
No need to close borders- cross border travellers should be tested weekly ( like those in sport) -allows travelling. We would not starve
Sorry, the facts simply don't back that up.
Sorry meant weekly testing plus double tap test.
Test on leaving country and test 48 hours later within country( mandatory app for location like Saudi Arabia) . Most cases will be negative. Positive ones are obviously isolated and blanket test all in contacts and contacts of contacts.
Only works well when the incidence of the disease is low.
Currently - we are going to need a prolonged lockdown to get to this stage.
The only alternative is recurrent lockdowns - periods of opening up the economy and then
Lockdown again.
Yo yo economics/ lockdowns over the next 6 months. Take your pick- but I prefer and elimination strategy
It's possible to test negative on Monday while incubating the infection, become infectious on Tuesday and have a full 5 days more before the next test to spread the disease.
As both Australia & New Zealand know it only takes one case to start the whole ball rolling all over again.
Both of them have strict inbound quarantine, with no exceptions aside from (perhaps) travelers from the other nation (I'm not sure if that's been agreed/is operational yet)"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Will we evere go back to normality?
Or will we just learn a new normal and like it or lump it just get on with a new normal
When the government adopts/ copies an elimination strategy to the high standards of places like South East Asian / Pacific countries.
If you have friends in Australia or Nz - call them and ask for an insight.
Normal life has returned there by and large-
See the Australia v All Blacks match in Wellington
Full house/ no masks/ everyone having a ball. That’s normal to me.
Apples and oranges! Sure we could have locked down all flights and ports from mid January and kept them shut... we would still be putting out the fires from the rioting. Oz and NZ closed borders before they had many cases on their shores. Low population density, Southern Hemisphere summer and hard tracing and isolation measures nipped it in the bud. with no herd immunity being built up they will have to keep their boarders as good as sealed until a vaccine arrives"
That’s the key, lock down with a low number of cases.
At 8% antibodies levels - we are no where near herd immunity- which does’ not exist if what the results from Manaus are showing h |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
No need to close borders- cross border travellers should be tested weekly ( like those in sport) -allows travelling. We would not starve
Sorry, the facts simply don't back that up.
Sorry meant weekly testing plus double tap test.
Test on leaving country and test 48 hours later within country( mandatory app for location like Saudi Arabia) . Most cases will be negative. Positive ones are obviously isolated and blanket test all in contacts and contacts of contacts.
Only works well when the incidence of the disease is low.
Currently - we are going to need a prolonged lockdown to get to this stage.
The only alternative is recurrent lockdowns - periods of opening up the economy and then
Lockdown again.
Yo yo economics/ lockdowns over the next 6 months. Take your pick- but I prefer and elimination strategy
It's possible to test negative on Monday while incubating the infection, become infectious on Tuesday and have a full 5 days more before the next test to spread the disease.
As both Australia & New Zealand know it only takes one case to start the whole ball rolling all over again.
Both of them have strict inbound quarantine, with no exceptions aside from (perhaps) travelers from the other nation (I'm not sure if that's been agreed/is operational yet)"
New Zealand have always been tight on inbound people and goods. When I went a few years ago they had their own national cricket team cleaning all their kit and I was made to empty my rucksack and show my hiking kit was spotless.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So is Australia. There’s a big list of stuff you can’t take in and they enforce it rigorously"
I knew a couple of Kiwis. They said someone smuggled in a small animal that took to the country way too well and had to be culled but someone else took one into Oz. Since then they ve been rightly tight. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Will we evere go back to normality?
Or will we just learn a new normal and like it or lump it just get on with a new normal
Like pre-covid ? No.
What we will do, and humans are remarkably adept at and resilient to, is adapting to a changed environment.
It's why we are the dominant species on the planet. We have overcome so many natural and man-made disasters that would have ended (and have ended) other species, proving time and again our natural resilience and the indomitable will to survive.
Will things return to exactly as they were pre-covid ? No, I don't think so.
But neither do I think we should fear the new normal, because it is a positive vector as a survival response.
In other words, it's the rope ladder suddenly dangled in to your sinking dinghy. It's the fire escape you find in a smoke-filled burning building. It's the glimmer of hope and a different way out of this mess.
We will learn, and adapt, and overcome.
"
A positive vector ....what?
Wtf are these governments going to tell us how to behave?
Whi died and made them the rulers of our lives? |
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"We might go a bit normalish after they realise that the nhs isn't going to be overwhelmed, but I think this is a long way off "
How’s that then? Over 500 on ventilators today and it’s a figure that is doubling every 7-10 days 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 16000... the NHS will be under serious pressure at 2000 and overwhelmed well before 16000 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We might go a bit normalish after they realise that the nhs isn't going to be overwhelmed, but I think this is a long way off
How’s that then? Over 500 on ventilators today and it’s a figure that is doubling every 7-10 days 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 16000... the NHS will be under serious pressure at 2000 and overwhelmed well before 16000"
In that case it's going to be a very long time |
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