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Masks could be the problem
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A couple of months ago in France when they came out of lockdown there were queues outside every supermarket. There are normally security personnel at the entrance and their duty changed from catching shoplifters to limiting the number of people in the store. There were queueing lines on the ground and everyone kept their distance and waited their turn to enter.
Fast forward a couple of months and there are no more queues, the job of the security personnel is to check everyone entering is wearing a mask. Inside the shops it's business as usual and nobody bothers to remain 1m away.
Given that the evidence for or against masks is not strong either way, have we made people feel unjustifiably safe wearing a mask and inadvertently removed peoples desire to keep their distance?
Perhaps thats why the numbers are climbing again. |
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Perhaps, or perhaps the warnings about people becoming complacent (due to masks or behavioural fatigue) might have been right.
But sure, a respiratory illness is being spread further by people containing their droplets, that's entirely logical  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Evidence for masks is strong, its to protect others from you, not vice versa, thats why surgeons wear masks while performing operations it's not for their benefit. |
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"Evidence for masks is strong, its to protect others from you, not vice versa, thats why surgeons wear masks while performing operations it's not for their benefit. "
When I say 'not strong in either direction' I'm quoting the UK deputy chief medical officer as well as the information from other countries that haven't enforced masks. So I'm embracing the science. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Evidence for masks is strong, its to protect others from you, not vice versa, thats why surgeons wear masks while performing operations it's not for their benefit.
When I say 'not strong in either direction' I'm quoting the UK deputy chief medical officer as well as the information from other countries that haven't enforced masks. So I'm embracing the science."
No...
That was something he said back in April in the context of mandating the use of masks. We now must wear masks in public transport and shops given more research since then.
What he actually said was he does not think healthy people wearing masks would stop the spread of the virus. Given a mask is there to stop you spreading the virus, it goes without saying that someone without covid wearing a mask has nothing to spread. |
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There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
Workplace :it's all fine folks.
Transport :wear a mask or your a grandma murderer.
Bars :it's all fine folks.
Shopper :wear mask or your a grandma murderer.
Shop worker :its all fine.
Schools:it's all fine.
Any one see the problem with selling masks here.
Just got back from town, 95% mask free, looks like folks have called bullshit, oh and just for the record, my town isn't on Any covid hot list, not even close.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Another point to note is that Sweden hasn't required masks so presumably they have carried on social distancing as before and they have not seen an increase."
More people died in Sweden in the first 6 months of the year than have died in the same period for 150 years so there’s that. |
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"There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
Workplace :it's all fine folks.
Transport :wear a mask or your a grandma murderer.
Bars :it's all fine folks.
Shopper :wear mask or your a grandma murderer.
Shop worker :its all fine.
Schools:it's all fine.
Any one see the problem with selling masks here.
Just got back from town, 95% mask free, looks like folks have called bullshit, oh and just for the record, my town isn't on Any covid hot list, not even close.
"
I think you mistake incoherent policy and scientific evidence. And "my mate jumped off a bridge so I should too". Happens all the time. We improve if we try  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
Workplace :it's all fine folks.
Transport :wear a mask or your a grandma murderer.
Bars :it's all fine folks.
Shopper :wear mask or your a grandma murderer.
Shop worker :its all fine.
Schools:it's all fine.
Any one see the problem with selling masks here.
Just got back from town, 95% mask free, looks like folks have called bullshit, oh and just for the record, my town isn't on Any covid hot list, not even close.
"
Forgive me if I don’t believe a word you say as you seem so emotionally invested in ending the lockdown that I think your emotions cloud your judgement. |
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Belive what you like, most of my post is just stating the crazy conflicting England mask policy, the 95% is just what I saw in my town, but you also see it on various OB TV clips too, UK will never become clone of China. |
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"Belive what you like, most of my post is just stating the crazy conflicting England mask policy, the 95% is just what I saw in my town, but you also see it on various OB TV clips too, UK will never become clone of China. "
Politics and science are not the same thing.
I know what the law requires, I do it, because that's the deal when you live somewhere.
I pay attention to the science and do what I can to protect others, because it's the right thing to do.
The second is what matters. The first is just, I can't be arsed dealing with the po-po.
And putting cloth over germ holes = still not Communist.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Belive what you like, most of my post is just stating the crazy conflicting England mask policy, the 95% is just what I saw in my town, but you also see it on various OB TV clips too, UK will never become clone of China. "
I presume you mean 95% not wearing masks outdoors. That I can believe because we haven’t been asked to.
95% not wearing in shops, nah... |
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By *manda63Woman
over a year ago
Southampton |
"There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
Workplace :it's all fine folks.
Transport :wear a mask or your a grandma murderer.
Bars :it's all fine folks.
Shopper :wear mask or your a grandma murderer.
Shop worker :its all fine.
Schools:it's all fine.
Any one see the problem with selling masks here.
Just got back from town, 95% mask free, looks like folks have called bullshit, oh and just for the record, my town isn't on Any covid hot list, not even close.
"
I work in a school and in the public areas we all have to wear masks or face shields. |
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"Evidence for masks is strong, its to protect others from you, not vice versa, thats why surgeons wear masks while performing operations it's not for their benefit.
When I say 'not strong in either direction' I'm quoting the UK deputy chief medical officer as well as the information from other countries that haven't enforced masks. So I'm embracing the science.
No...
That was something he said back in April in the context of mandating the use of masks. We now must wear masks in public transport and shops given more research since then.
What he actually said was he does not think healthy people wearing masks would stop the spread of the virus. Given a mask is there to stop you spreading the virus, it goes without saying that someone without covid wearing a mask has nothing to spread."
No, it was said by Jenny Harries in a government briefing on the 28th August. At the time she was justifying children not wearing them in class. They pick the science to suit their goal.
Basically the government asked the scientists and the scientists said there's not clear evidence either way. Then the government asked a focus group who said 'well it's obvious that masks are a good idea' so the government decided that they might as well make them mandatory. |
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"Please remember you are not required to use a mask, It is a face covering.
"Mask" refers to a rated piece of PPE not something made from and old pair of knickers."
Mask refers to a face covering! A suitable Face mask with a specification for use as PPE Is what you’re referring to.
A mask remains a mask whether it be a clown mask or other |
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The real issue with face coverings is the way they are worn. The number of people I have seen just in the last week where they are covering their mouth but not their nose with the mask/covering is high and increasing on what I have personally withnessed in supermarkets alone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
Workplace :it's all fine folks.
Transport :wear a mask or your a grandma murderer.
Bars :it's all fine folks.
Shopper :wear mask or your a grandma murderer.
Shop worker :its all fine.
Schools:it's all fine.
Any one see the problem with selling masks here.
Just got back from town, 95% mask free, looks like folks have called bullshit, oh and just for the record, my town isn't on Any covid hot list, not even close.
"
Your town must be full of fuckwits then because in Edinburgh almost everyone is abiding by the rules, tourists an' all.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Evidence for everything is strong.
More books written about the supernatural than science.
More flat earth documentaries on YouTube than round earth. Antivax and vegan is the new woke.
People will believe whatever crap let's us sleep at night. Believe what you like and find evidence that only supports your belief. We're all wrong anyway. |
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Numbers are climbing ,, not because people aren’t wearing masks . It’s because they can’t and won’t keep a social distance from each other, won’t disinfect and don’t respect the rules. Sending kids back to school and university simply as they are least affected also makes no sense when you consider they transmit it to their , peers, groups, family and so it spreads. Are we so dense that we can’t see the way things are . |
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South Korea has mandatory wearing of face masks in Public places. Since their first cases of covid they have had just under 22000 cases and 341 deaths in total. I think I'll keep wearing my mask where required. Population is around 55million. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The WHO strongly recommends that if all parties wearing correctly placed masks in a closed environment, the chance of infection reduces significantly as opposed to nobody wearing the mask.
Science and the largest health organisation on the planet tell you that mask wearing is essential. I’m not sure what else are you seeking in terms of proof...? |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
Face covering is a mitigation, most can't wear it correctly anyway. Best place is to reduce the amount of time you need to wear face covering in the first place, by doing reduces the risk to yourself and others. |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"The WHO strongly recommends that if all parties wearing correctly placed masks in a closed environment, the chance of infection reduces significantly as opposed to nobody wearing the mask.
Science and the largest health organisation on the planet tell you that mask wearing is essential. I’m not sure what else are you seeking in terms of proof...?"
Some people will only believe if they see it on a baseless, crackpot YouTube video or Facebook post... |
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"The WHO strongly recommends that if all parties wearing correctly placed masks in a closed environment, the chance of infection reduces significantly as opposed to nobody wearing the mask.
Science and the largest health organisation on the planet tell you that mask wearing is essential. I’m not sure what else are you seeking in terms of proof...?"
Dont ask me, ask Jenny Harries, the deputy chief medical officer. |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"By the way, note to forum boffins: could we have a 'face with mask' emoji so that I can be a responsible citizen when indicating my emotion?"
You could try doing that by using responsible language, and thought out views, instead of baseless nonsense. Just a suggestion of course. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Out of curiosity, is mask wearing being enforced at all in shops etc in England? And if so is wearing them correctly being enforced or just wearing anything in any way the individual chooses to? Or is it not being enforced at all? |
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"There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
"
That's where your wrong.
There are studies going back 20 years regarding transmission of viruses and face coverings.
Many give quantitative results for various materials.
The virus is real folks, being stupid isn't an option. |
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There's no evidence that use of masks has helped to cause problems and many countries that have been very successful at combating the virus from spreading have had high levels of mask wearing compliance.
We can note our own anecdotal views and make connections with things that are not connected but it doesn't reveal much other than our thoughts.
Correlation is never causation, even if there is some data. We are best to rely on the known research evidence from credible sources.
Mask use is a tiny part of our approach to suppress and reduce levels of the problem. The other facets, such as reducing social interaction are the substance of what we have to focus on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"?
Serious question. Why are there no biohazard bins for used masks and gloves if this virus is so contagious and deadly?
?"
And if its so deadly why do you need to be tested to know you've had it?
The actual science on masks states it has zero effect on virus transmission as the particle size is too small.
Why is everyone so concerned about "cases" and not deaths?
I don't hear any pandemics about cancer or TB which killed many more people this year. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"?
Serious question. Why are there no biohazard bins for used masks and gloves if this virus is so contagious and deadly?
?"
Good reasoning. The masks are revolting articles of discarded clothing and will be a source of germs, plastic waste and detritus even without covid.
Yuck........ Revolting things. I hate them with all my heart. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The virus is real folks, being stupid isn't an option."
There are many on this very forum who are desperately trying to prove that it is very much an option. |
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"There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
Workplace :it's all fine folks.
Transport :wear a mask or your a grandma murderer.
Bars :it's all fine folks.
Shopper :wear mask or your a grandma murderer.
Shop worker :its all fine.
Schools:it's all fine.
Any one see the problem with selling masks here.
Just got back from town, 95% mask free, looks like folks have called bullshit, oh and just for the record, my town isn't on Any covid hot list, not even close.
"
The rule is to wear masks inside the shops.
If you're saying 95% of people aren't doing that then that's total bullshit.
If you're saying 95% of people outside of the shops aren't doing that, then they don't have to.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't think you can isolate the spread of the virus down to mask or social distancing in supermarkets. People go it pubs, restaurants, public transport, work. Lives on surfaces - does everyone clean all food packaging, I doubt it. This is airborne virus so it will spread quickly. It doesn't mean it's anyone's fault. Mask likely lowers risk but doesn't eradicate it. Clearly as we return to normal it will spread quicker. The current approach isn't to elimate the virus it's to control it. |
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I don't think it's the masks, although you are correct with a mask on in public people forget all about social distancing.
Maybe it's the pictures we're seeing of the places that you aren't required to wear a mask, pubs restaurants gyms etc. I'm mean how busy we're the restaurants last month with eat out to help out, and no one was wearing a mask eating dinner? Same with pubs, people drinking no distancing d*unk. Surely I'm not the only one that can see a rise in cases was to be expected as we eased some of the restrictions. |
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"?
Serious question. Why are there no biohazard bins for used masks and gloves if this virus is so contagious and deadly?
?"
Simply put the money is best spent else where, the councils cannot afford to have specialist bins and attendees maintaining them, same reason as why there are not many large hand washing stations in town centres |
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"There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
Workplace :it's all fine folks.
Transport :wear a mask or your a grandma murderer.
Bars :it's all fine folks.
Shopper :wear mask or your a grandma murderer.
Shop worker :its all fine.
Schools:it's all fine.
Any one see the problem with selling masks here.
Just got back from town, 95% mask free, looks like folks have called bullshit, oh and just for the record, my town isn't on Any covid hot list, not even close.
Your town must be full of fuckwits then because in Edinburgh almost everyone is abiding by the rules, tourists an' all. "
Maybe something to do with the majority respecting the first ministers handling of the situation?
|
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"?
Serious question. Why are there no biohazard bins for used masks and gloves if this virus is so contagious and deadly?
?
And if its so deadly why do you need to be tested to know you've had it?
The actual science on masks states it has zero effect on virus transmission as the particle size is too small.
Why is everyone so concerned about "cases" and not deaths?
I don't hear any pandemics about cancer or TB which killed many more people this year. "
Omg, "the actual science states". Are you for real? The opinion of scientists varies. However, whilst the virus is smaller than the holes in the masks, the particles it needs to carry it are significantly blocked by masks.
Have you heard of viral load? One theory is that the reason cases aren't having as bad consequences now is that those infected aren't getting the same viral load. That means that they aren't getting as exposed to as much virus because people are wearing masks which reduces the amount of virus one breathes out.
There is a concern about the number of cases because it's spreading through the younger generation in bars, pubs and house parties but these people will then pass to parents who in turn likely to pass to grandparents. Then, a load of old people die prematurely...
We hear loads about cancer deaths. Cancer is no 1 killer globally. What's the stats now in having cancer during your lifetime? 1 in 3 or less? Thing is with cancer is we don't pass it on. A mask certainly doesn't help and there really isn't much we can do to prevent it as a society. It's up to individuals to reduce risk by not smoking, drinking excessively , wearing sun block and eating healthy. We have been getting this advice for years and years. How on earth can you draw comparisons between covid 19 and cancer? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There is actually no evidence on masks, it's all pure opinion.phycological, political, one, either or all.
Workplace :it's all fine folks.
Transport :wear a mask or your a grandma murderer.
Bars :it's all fine folks.
Shopper :wear mask or your a grandma murderer.
Shop worker :its all fine.
Schools:it's all fine.
Any one see the problem with selling masks here.
Just got back from town, 95% mask free, looks like folks have called bullshit, oh and just for the record, my town isn't on Any covid hot list, not even close.
Your town must be full of fuckwits then because in Edinburgh almost everyone is abiding by the rules, tourists an' all.
Maybe something to do with the majority respecting the first ministers handling of the situation?
"
I was in England last week and it was the same situation there too. The vast majority of people were wearing masks in shops.
Outside is a different matter, because we don't have to, and I believe that the 95% quoted, was using that particular point in order to support an agenda. |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"Evidence for masks is strong, its to protect others from you, not vice versa, thats why surgeons wear masks while performing operations it's not for their benefit.
When I say 'not strong in either direction' I'm quoting the UK deputy chief medical officer as well as the information from other countries that haven't enforced masks. So I'm embracing the science.
No...
That was something he said back in April in the context of mandating the use of masks. We now must wear masks in public transport and shops given more research since then.
What he actually said was he does not think healthy people wearing masks would stop the spread of the virus. Given a mask is there to stop you spreading the virus, it goes without saying that someone without covid wearing a mask has nothing to spread."
That is true but, many people have covid-19 without symptoms and appear to be healthy but in reality are spreading the virus with every breath.
That is why if everyone wears a mask they would be helping to protect others from catching the virus |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Please remember you are not required to use a mask, It is a face covering.
"Mask" refers to a rated piece of PPE not something made from and old pair of knickers."
^^ That's a whole thread on its own right there!!
Made me smile thank you  x |
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