FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Covid Vaccination
Covid Vaccination
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Subject to the right research evidence for safety and efficacy Yes" Yes this | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Absolutely yes. The only solution." Lol this guy. Absolutely not. Its not even a solution. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Subject to the right research evidence for safety and efficacy Yes" Same | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Out of curiosity though. All the people saying yes if a vaccine came and goverments said that they have to mandate it so everyone has to have it. Would you be standing side by side for the peoples rights not to have it if they choose not to? I respect anyones personal choice if they want to have it as its their life. I hope the people saying yes will have the same respect to those that choose not to have it and if it was ever to be mandatory that both yes and no groups would stand together as one against such a thing." What right to refuse? It has always been a principle of public health law that compulsion is the last resort, but a permissible intervention, whether that's in the form of detention to prevent infection or compulsory treatment. A lot of people who talk about rights, without mentioning that some rights are qualified rights probably haven't read all the debates around the passage of the Water Acy in the early noughties. They probably should. And that's before we get onto the more complex argument about whether a blind adherence to opposition to vaccines, irrespective of the evidence, is prima facie evidence of a lack of capacity to refuse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Out of curiosity though. All the people saying yes if a vaccine came and goverments said that they have to mandate it so everyone has to have it. Would you be standing side by side for the peoples rights not to have it if they choose not to? I respect anyones personal choice if they want to have it as its their life. I hope the people saying yes will have the same respect to those that choose not to have it and if it was ever to be mandatory that both yes and no groups would stand together as one against such a thing." Nope. I won't have any respect for the decision of those anti-science conspiracy theorists who refuse the vaccine. Their choice not only affects themselves but society as a whole. Bluntly put, it is an extremely selfish choice. It would lead to the virus having a greater impact on others than it would if everyone accepted vaccination. That is, more deaths. To the original question, yes to a properly researched and tested vaccine. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Out of curiosity though. All the people saying yes if a vaccine came and goverments said that they have to mandate it so everyone has to have it. Would you be standing side by side for the peoples rights not to have it if they choose not to? I respect anyones personal choice if they want to have it as its their life. I hope the people saying yes will have the same respect to those that choose not to have it and if it was ever to be mandatory that both yes and no groups would stand together as one against such a thing." If people start being grabbed from their homes and restrained and vaccinated, I would be against that. There is no chance that will happen though. If people who refuse a vaccine without a medical reason get fined? I'd be fine with that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No.... not because i take an anti-vax position...i'm pro-safe medication. Also epstien's mate bill gates has called for indemnification (spelling not sure) for vaccine producers....meaning they can't be sued if bad side effects cause problems for recipients .... so at the moment...NO" Oh dear. Then those people who who refuse the vax, should they be allowed to use a ventilator? I hope not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it?" Apart from those who can't have it for medical reasons. However not everyone will need to have it to achieve herd immunity. I read somewhere it could be as low as 60% | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it?" The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it?" No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers." Well I'm healthy and fit with a healthy immune system as are millions of others and if contracting covid may not even know it or nothing worse than a cold. So do us healthy people have to put ourselfs at risk and take a rushed through unproven vaccine unknown wether it will be safe with no side effects in a year or 2 down the line to protect people that probably been living on highly processed shit food and sugary drinks most of their lives and smoke?? I dont think so. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. " Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. " Oh you love a good generalisation don't you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Oh you love a good generalisation don't you." Its true though i can gaurentee the people emptying the shelfs of everything wasnt the ones that are against all this face covering baloney. It was the ones that are shit scared of the virus because they sit and watch the news all day, the ones that are calling others selfish for not wanting to take a vaccine or wear a mask. Yeah those was the ones scurrying around the shops stocking up, being selfish. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. " Aren't you just the hero then ?? We don't wear masks because we're terrified. We wear them cos they protect others, that's right! It protects other people, that's how unselfish we are! If masks or vaccines only protected that specific individual, then your choice is only your choice. But when your choice impacts on the health and safety of others, then get off your mightier than thou soapbox and consider your fellow mankind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Oh you love a good generalisation don't you. Its true though i can gaurentee the people emptying the shelfs of everything wasnt the ones that are against all this face covering baloney. It was the ones that are shit scared of the virus because they sit and watch the news all day, the ones that are calling others selfish for not wanting to take a vaccine or wear a mask. Yeah those was the ones scurrying around the shops stocking up, being selfish." . Unless you can prove that, which clearly you can't it's an opinion based on your bias, just like others opinions are based on their bias. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers." Who said the medically vulnerable can't have the vaccine? With the flu shot it is very much targeted towards the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. They are the target group recommended to be vaccinated against Covid-19 also. If the medically vulnerable group are vaccinated and the ones who are pro-elective vaccination are vaccinated, then who are the anti vaxxers putting at risk? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers. Who said the medically vulnerable can't have the vaccine? With the flu shot it is very much targeted towards the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. They are the target group recommended to be vaccinated against Covid-19 also. If the medically vulnerable group are vaccinated and the ones who are pro-elective vaccination are vaccinated, then who are the anti vaxxers putting at risk? " other than themselves and eachother obviously. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers. Who said the medically vulnerable can't have the vaccine? With the flu shot it is very much targeted towards the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. They are the target group recommended to be vaccinated against Covid-19 also. If the medically vulnerable group are vaccinated and the ones who are pro-elective vaccination are vaccinated, then who are the anti vaxxers putting at risk? " The OP doesn't want an argument, just a yes or no. Oh hang on  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Subject to the right research evidence for safety and efficacy Yes" ^ This | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers. Who said the medically vulnerable can't have the vaccine? With the flu shot it is very much targeted towards the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. They are the target group recommended to be vaccinated against Covid-19 also. If the medically vulnerable group are vaccinated and the ones who are pro-elective vaccination are vaccinated, then who are the anti vaxxers putting at risk? The OP doesn't want an argument, just a yes or no. Oh hang on "Pmsl it's my post I can do what I like  I had enough to be going on for my survey for Sydney university | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers. Who said the medically vulnerable can't have the vaccine? With the flu shot it is very much targeted towards the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. They are the target group recommended to be vaccinated against Covid-19 also. If the medically vulnerable group are vaccinated and the ones who are pro-elective vaccination are vaccinated, then who are the anti vaxxers putting at risk? " Let me restate. There are people who will not be able to have the vaccine due to particular medical vulnerability. I vaccinate myself in part to protect them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
Public health relies upon all of us doing our bit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's astonishing that "I donwanna get a needle because I don't understand medicine or regulatory processes, and I'll be fine so fuck you" has been rebranded as a brave, noble, informed choice.
Public health relies upon all of us doing our bit."I don't think it's been rebranded as brave or noble though, most people as above are against anti vaxxers. Is it not shaky ground though to become part of a society where choice is taken away from people and things be forced on people? How will they enforce it? Aren't we then infringing human rights? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. " 1. I'm not terrified, I'm going out and getting on with life. 2. I didn't hoard anything. 3. I wear a mask in order to protect other people, not myself. 4. I've always given a shit about other people, unlike those people who refuse to wear a mask. 5. Masks are worn to protect other people, not ourselves. Maybe, instead of pretending you know better than everyone else you should acknowledge the fact that while the virus might not be dangerous to you, it is deadly to some people and those are the ones we need to protect. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No.... not because i take an anti-vax position...i'm pro-safe medication. Also epstien's mate bill gates has called for indemnification (spelling not sure) for vaccine producers....meaning they can't be sued if bad side effects cause problems for recipients .... so at the moment...NO Oh dear. Then those people who who refuse the vax, should they be allowed to use a ventilator? I hope not. " oh going down that route eh.in that case if you dont work and pay tax you shouldnt use the nhs then | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's astonishing that "I donwanna get a needle because I don't understand medicine or regulatory processes, and I'll be fine so fuck you" has been rebranded as a brave, noble, informed choice.
Public health relies upon all of us doing our bit.
I don't think it's been rebranded as brave or noble though, most people as above are against anti vaxxers.
Is it not shaky ground though to become part of a society where choice is taken away from people and things be forced on people? How will they enforce it? Aren't we then infringing human rights? "Human rights have limits in all spheres. Public health has always been one of them. Society is about rights and responsibilities. We can't get by if we don't all look after each other. What about other people's rights to not be exposed to deadly pathogens? In this case, vaccination is taking a (over population level) miniscule risk to protect yourself and those around you. The safety profile involved in vaccination approval is higher than other drugs because it's for mass use. Skipping a vaccination because you'll probably be fine and there's a one in tens of thousands or millions chance that something bad will happen isn't brave, it's foolish. And irresponsible. The safety profile for any vaccine will be much, much better than the disease. And you'll help protect others as well as yourself. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. " Well said  .. I see alot of people claming they do or will do these thing for the wellbeing of others when the truth is we all do these things for ourselves and those close to us, how many of the people saying yes to the vaccine helped out those who did not have during the panic buying, and by this I mean people you did not know, complete strangers to whom your are claiming that you will now become a test subject for.
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No.... not because i take an anti-vax position...i'm pro-safe medication. Also epstien's mate bill gates has called for indemnification (spelling not sure) for vaccine producers....meaning they can't be sued if bad side effects cause problems for recipients .... so at the moment...NO Oh dear. Then those people who who refuse the vax, should they be allowed to use a ventilator? I hope not. oh going down that route eh.in that case if you dont work and pay tax you shouldnt use the nhs then" Or if you smoke and lead very unhealthy life styles you should be back of the queue to anyone that leads a healthy life style if needing any kind of operations. Yeah i agree best not go down that route as most people on here would be fcked. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Not because I think it's an evil plot to inject me with tiny people who will report back to Bill Gates though." We got medium people as well if that helps..?  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's astonishing that "I donwanna get a needle because I don't understand medicine or regulatory processes, and I'll be fine so fuck you" has been rebranded as a brave, noble, informed choice.
Public health relies upon all of us doing our bit.
I don't think it's been rebranded as brave or noble though, most people as above are against anti vaxxers.
Is it not shaky ground though to become part of a society where choice is taken away from people and things be forced on people? How will they enforce it? Aren't we then infringing human rights?
Human rights have limits in all spheres. Public health has always been one of them.
Society is about rights and responsibilities. We can't get by if we don't all look after each other.
What about other people's rights to not be exposed to deadly pathogens?
In this case, vaccination is taking a (over population level) miniscule risk to protect yourself and those around you. The safety profile involved in vaccination approval is higher than other drugs because it's for mass use.
Skipping a vaccination because you'll probably be fine and there's a one in tens of thousands or millions chance that something bad will happen isn't brave, it's foolish. And irresponsible.
The safety profile for any vaccine will be much, much better than the disease. And you'll help protect others as well as yourself."But other peoples rights to not be exposed won't be infringed because they are protected by the vaccine and masks? Not arguing or being confrontational here btw I am still forming my opinion on all this. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers. Who said the medically vulnerable can't have the vaccine? With the flu shot it is very much targeted towards the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. They are the target group recommended to be vaccinated against Covid-19 also. If the medically vulnerable group are vaccinated and the ones who are pro-elective vaccination are vaccinated, then who are the anti vaxxers putting at risk? The OP doesn't want an argument, just a yes or no. Oh hang on "This is fab forums antivaxers vs gullible-autocratical, OP as stated a war | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's astonishing that "I donwanna get a needle because I don't understand medicine or regulatory processes, and I'll be fine so fuck you" has been rebranded as a brave, noble, informed choice.
Public health relies upon all of us doing our bit.
I don't think it's been rebranded as brave or noble though, most people as above are against anti vaxxers.
Is it not shaky ground though to become part of a society where choice is taken away from people and things be forced on people? How will they enforce it? Aren't we then infringing human rights?
Human rights have limits in all spheres. Public health has always been one of them.
Society is about rights and responsibilities. We can't get by if we don't all look after each other.
What about other people's rights to not be exposed to deadly pathogens?
In this case, vaccination is taking a (over population level) miniscule risk to protect yourself and those around you. The safety profile involved in vaccination approval is higher than other drugs because it's for mass use.
Skipping a vaccination because you'll probably be fine and there's a one in tens of thousands or millions chance that something bad will happen isn't brave, it's foolish. And irresponsible.
The safety profile for any vaccine will be much, much better than the disease. And you'll help protect others as well as yourself.
But other peoples rights to not be exposed won't be infringed because they are protected by the vaccine and masks? Not arguing or being confrontational here btw I am still forming my opinion on all this. "Vaccines are not 100% effective. No medicine ever is. We require a certain level of uptake to get herd immunity, or a level at which a disease won't spread through a community. This depends on the R0 of a pathogen (SARS-COVID-2 about 2-3, measles 15-20), and the effectiveness of a vaccine. (In the US funding is being thrown at anything over 50%). Vaccine effectiveness depends on our immune system, which wanes with age. And some vaccines mitigate, rather than prevent. So I get vaccinated. I'm youngish, so I get good protection if the vaccine protects me. So I have a 1 in 2 chance of being protected from disease or severe disease. But if more people are vaccinated, that protection rises. Take someone older who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. They're vulnerable. They're more likely to die if they get sick. But (I have a specified person in mind who I know can't be vaccinated) they're a fully functional member of society, pay lots of tax, give to charities, do community work, mentor young people etc. They just can't get the jab. If lots of people get vaccinated, they're protected. If not, they're not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Vaccines are not 100% effective. No medicine ever is. We require a certain level of uptake to get herd immunity, or a level at which a disease won't spread through a community. This depends on the R0 of a pathogen (SARS-COVID-2 about 2-3, measles 15-20), and the effectiveness of a vaccine. (In the US funding is being thrown at anything over 50%). Vaccine effectiveness depends on our immune system, which wanes with age. And some vaccines mitigate, rather than prevent. So I get vaccinated. I'm youngish, so I get good protection if the vaccine protects me. So I have a 1 in 2 chance of being protected from disease or severe disease. But if more people are vaccinated, that protection rises. Take someone older who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. They're vulnerable. They're more likely to die if they get sick. But (I have a specified person in mind who I know can't be vaccinated) they're a fully functional member of society, pay lots of tax, give to charities, do community work, mentor young people etc. They just can't get the jab. If lots of people get vaccinated, they're protected. If not, they're not." And this has to be the most well considered post I've seen here in months. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Before taking a vaccination to protect only the people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, people should be supplied with what conditions stop people from being vaccinated because I suspect that it would be a very low number of people? " It's something between them and their doctor. And you'd be protecting yourself. And those for whom vaccines haven't worked. And those who can't be vaccinated yet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Before taking a vaccination to protect only the people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, people should be supplied with what conditions stop people from being vaccinated because I suspect that it would be a very low number of people? " Possibly, but that low number of people would potentially rise over time as they have kids and pass on whatever medical condition to them through genes. Europe is pretty much Polio free now due to widespread vaccination, so it can work, provided people get behind it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes and no soon went out the window "OP's prerogative  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Before taking a vaccination to protect only the people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, people should be supplied with what conditions stop people from being vaccinated because I suspect that it would be a very low number of people? Possibly, but that low number of people would potentially rise over time as they have kids and pass on whatever medical condition to them through genes. Europe is pretty much Polio free now due to widespread vaccination, so it can work, provided people get behind it. " There was a heart breaking case in Australia about a family in a community where vaccines were regarded as personal choice only. A baby girl died of whooping cough before she was old enough to be vaccinated. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
   | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes. Anti vac folk have a screw loose. " I'm not anti vax, I'm anti stupidity. I've had all the regular vaccinations as a child, ones which have been tested for many years. I'm not taking a fastracked corovavirus vaccine that's been knocked out in a few months | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NO. MOST OF YOU HEAD BURIERS AND CLEAN FREAK SNOW FLAKES WILL NOT READ THIS.. ???? 100s of 1000s are vacinated for flu and other stuff, so guess what ? flu exist and so does alot of other RNA viruses and people die, no cure for the common cold. Coronaviruses are a group of related RNA viruses that cause diseases in MAMMALS and BIRDS. Notable human diseases caused by RNA viruses include the common cold, influenza, SARS, COVID-19, Dengue Virus, hepatitis C, hepatitis E, West Nile fever, Ebola virus disease, rabies, polio and measles. THEY EXIST AND NOT GOING AWAY.. There are as yet no vaccines or antiviral drugs to prevent or treat human coronavirus infections. THE HUMAN RACE HAS BECOME CLEAN FREAK ANTI BACTERIA THIS ANTI GERM THAT ETC ETC. WE NEED CERTAIN BACTERIA ETC IN OUR SYSTEMS TO BE HEALTHY.. BUT MOST PEOPLE HAVE BECOME OBSCESSED WITH WIPING THEM OUT ASWELL.. "I read it. Citations? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NO. MOST OF YOU HEAD BURIERS AND CLEAN FREAK SNOW FLAKES WILL NOT READ THIS.. ???? 100s of 1000s are vacinated for flu and other stuff, so guess what ? flu exist and so does alot of other RNA viruses and people die, no cure for the common cold. Coronaviruses are a group of related RNA viruses that cause diseases in MAMMALS and BIRDS. Notable human diseases caused by RNA viruses include the common cold, influenza, SARS, COVID-19, Dengue Virus, hepatitis C, hepatitis E, West Nile fever, Ebola virus disease, rabies, polio and measles. THEY EXIST AND NOT GOING AWAY.. There are as yet no vaccines or antiviral drugs to prevent or treat human coronavirus infections. THE HUMAN RACE HAS BECOME CLEAN FREAK ANTI BACTERIA THIS ANTI GERM THAT ETC ETC. WE NEED CERTAIN BACTERIA ETC IN OUR SYSTEMS TO BE HEALTHY.. BUT MOST PEOPLE HAVE BECOME OBSCESSED WITH WIPING THEM OUT ASWELL.. "You know viruses and bacteria are two different things, right? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vaccines take years to develop and trial SAFELY in order they are proven safe for use and even then years down the line anomalies appear resulting in birth defects, cancers etc. Anybody who simply thinks it is ok to do whatever the Government and government scientists tell them need to wake up and fast. I have a relative who holds a senior position in one of the biggest hospitals in Britain and that relative has clearly stated that under no circumstances will their children or themselves for that matter be taking a vaccine that has no track record or reference point. The figures for Covid deaths in the UK are less than 0.1 % percent of the population and even less in Europe AND America. Wake up people. The facts are there for all to see. And please lol , dont respond by quoting and saying 'Well the Sun or Gaurdian newspapers said this ' etc. To take an unproven vaccine is pure lunacy and one which Carrie's a substantial risk to both yourselves and your children. Think hard." Citations please. Data. Papers. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Herd immunity also means general societal benefit. Closing pools to prevent polio used to be the norm. This isn't polio, but the more people get on board with prevention including vaccination, the sooner we can take back control and not live in fear of Covid-19. " I'm confused,are you saying herd immunity is gained through the vaccine? When Boris suggested herd immunity everyone hissed at him for an inhumane response. But herd immunity via vaccine is something people are now ok with now? even though using own bodies immune system would be healthier than having an under researched concoction injected into people though?  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Herd immunity also means general societal benefit. Closing pools to prevent polio used to be the norm. This isn't polio, but the more people get on board with prevention including vaccination, the sooner we can take back control and not live in fear of Covid-19. I'm confused,are you saying herd immunity is gained through the vaccine? When Boris suggested herd immunity everyone hissed at him for an inhumane response. But herd immunity via vaccine is something people are now ok with now? even though using own bodies immune system would be healthier than having an under researched concoction injected into people though? "Herd immunity via infection means everyone gets sick, and everyone gets put at risk. From death and long term effects of Covid-19 we don't know about yet. Herd immunity via vaccination means that the chain of transmission is stopped. Like social distancing, but less lonely and better for the economy. The risks of taking our chances with a disease are much higher than with a vaccination that has passed appropriate safety controls. No one in support of vaccines is supporting injecting whatever concoction of God knows what because hey why not. It's an established procedure, with established safety and effectiveness standards. Which are generally higher standards than other medications. This process is slightly altered at the moment because of the need, and this will need to be looked at. But herd immunity by getting sick is monstrous. Herd immunity via vaccination is... medicine | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes and no soon went out the window
OP's prerogative "She started it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NO. MOST OF YOU HEAD BURIERS AND CLEAN FREAK SNOW FLAKES WILL NOT READ THIS.. ???? " And with an introduction like that, who could blame them? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. 1. I'm not terrified, I'm going out and getting on with life. 2. I didn't hoard anything. 3. I wear a mask in order to protect other people, not myself. 4. I've always given a shit about other people, unlike those people who refuse to wear a mask. 5. Masks are worn to protect other people, not ourselves. Maybe, instead of pretending you know better than everyone else you should acknowledge the fact that while the virus might not be dangerous to you, it is deadly to some people and those are the ones we need to protect. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many of the ones who said no to a vaccine would change Thier minds if it becomes mandatory for traveling to other countries ? " It’s not going to become mandatory. Spain having already lost this year’s tourism income are not going to turn business away in the future. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Herd immunity via infection means everyone gets sick, and everyone gets put at risk. From death and long term effects of Covid-19 we don't know about yet. Herd immunity via vaccination means that the chain of transmission is stopped. Like social distancing, but less lonely and better for the economy. The risks of taking our chances with a disease are much higher than with a vaccination that has passed appropriate safety controls. No one in support of vaccines is supporting injecting whatever concoction of God knows what because hey why not. It's an established procedure, with established safety and effectiveness standards. Which are generally higher standards than other medications. This process is slightly altered at the moment because of the need, and this will need to be looked at. But herd immunity by getting sick is monstrous. Herd immunity via vaccination is... medicine " You have the patience of a saint. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I have no problem with those who choose not to have the vaccine when and if it becomes available. It doesn’t take 100% uptake to provide herd immunity, along with the increasingly effective treatment we’ll be fine." I know people who are vulnerable. Depending on the degree of non uptake it might put them at risk. The degree of non uptake is best left to those who can't, rather than don't want to. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Herd immunity via infection means everyone gets sick, and everyone gets put at risk. From death and long term effects of Covid-19 we don't know about yet. Herd immunity via vaccination means that the chain of transmission is stopped. Like social distancing, but less lonely and better for the economy. The risks of taking our chances with a disease are much higher than with a vaccination that has passed appropriate safety controls. No one in support of vaccines is supporting injecting whatever concoction of God knows what because hey why not. It's an established procedure, with established safety and effectiveness standards. Which are generally higher standards than other medications. This process is slightly altered at the moment because of the need, and this will need to be looked at. But herd immunity by getting sick is monstrous. Herd immunity via vaccination is... medicine You have the patience of a saint. "This stuff really really matters to me. I have a vulnerable relative who'd probably die of this and is possibly unable to get the vaccine (depending on specifics no one knows yet). And I volunteer with vulnerable people. (I've managed to get my mask patter down for their purposes without getting frustrated  ) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Not for me. Can’t help feeling Covid has been exaggerated somewhat. " I totally agree | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. " Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No, not yet. Not because I think it's an evil plot to inject me with tiny people who will report back to Bill Gates though." That makes me think of the minions and Despicable Me . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Before taking a vaccination to protect only the people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, people should be supplied with what conditions stop people from being vaccinated because I suspect that it would be a very low number of people? Possibly, but that low number of people would potentially rise over time as they have kids and pass on whatever medical condition to them through genes. " Only if it's congenital. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Herd immunity also means general societal benefit. Closing pools to prevent polio used to be the norm. This isn't polio, but the more people get on board with prevention including vaccination, the sooner we can take back control and not live in fear of Covid-19. I'm confused,are you saying herd immunity is gained through the vaccine? When Boris suggested herd immunity everyone hissed at him for an inhumane response. But herd immunity via vaccine is something people are now ok with now? even though using own bodies immune system would be healthier than having an under researched concoction injected into people though? "Vaccinations trigger an immune response - therefore it is our own immune systems. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. " Agreed. I didn't hoard, I didn't panic, I listened to the evidence and do what I can to protect others. Some cloth on my face might stop other people suffering and dying. It's a no brainer. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. " Oh come on you know exactly why you are wearing a mask and its because some stranger on the tv told you too as i bet everything i own you wasnt wearing a mask in shops or transport few months ago. And you will stop wearing that mask once the nice stranger on the tv tells you its ok to do so. Stop lying to yourself and others because thats the only reason you are wearing a mask. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. Agreed. I didn't hoard, I didn't panic, I listened to the evidence and do what I can to protect others. Some cloth on my face might stop other people suffering and dying. It's a no brainer." "I listened to the evidance " is this the evidance that the experts where saying masks do absolutely bollox all at the beginning of this whole farce? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. Oh come on you know exactly why you are wearing a mask and its because some stranger on the tv told you too as i bet everything i own you wasnt wearing a mask in shops or transport few months ago. And you will stop wearing that mask once the nice stranger on the tv tells you its ok to do so. Stop lying to yourself and others because thats the only reason you are wearing a mask." People are putting on masks (and will be taking them off) based on guidance published by people who are far better placed to advise than joe public who thinks that the best way of getting immunity to a virus is catch it and hope they don't have any bad symptoms and that they don't spread it to others. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. Agreed. I didn't hoard, I didn't panic, I listened to the evidence and do what I can to protect others. Some cloth on my face might stop other people suffering and dying. It's a no brainer. "I listened to the evidance " is this the evidance that the experts where saying masks do absolutely bollox all at the beginning of this whole farce?" No, that's listening to a bit, hearing something that supported your own opinions, then closing your ears to any further evidence that comes along during a rapidly developing situation. Life requires you to adapt to new situations, otherwise you go extinct. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. Agreed. I didn't hoard, I didn't panic, I listened to the evidence and do what I can to protect others. Some cloth on my face might stop other people suffering and dying. It's a no brainer. "I listened to the evidance " is this the evidance that the experts where saying masks do absolutely bollox all at the beginning of this whole farce?" Not it's the absolute bollocks of the evidence base and supply chain changing. The absolute bollocks of the real world. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Herd immunity via infection means everyone gets sick, and everyone gets put at risk. From death and long term effects of Covid-19 we don't know about yet. Herd immunity via vaccination means that the chain of transmission is stopped. Like social distancing, but less lonely and better for the economy. The risks of taking our chances with a disease are much higher than with a vaccination that has passed appropriate safety controls. No one in support of vaccines is supporting injecting whatever concoction of God knows what because hey why not. It's an established procedure, with established safety and effectiveness standards. Which are generally higher standards than other medications. This process is slightly altered at the moment because of the need, and this will need to be looked at. But herd immunity by getting sick is monstrous. Herd immunity via vaccination is... medicine You have the patience of a saint.
This stuff really really matters to me.
I have a vulnerable relative who'd probably die of this and is possibly unable to get the vaccine (depending on specifics no one knows yet). And I volunteer with vulnerable people. (I've managed to get my mask patter down for their purposes without getting frustrated )"I work in Aged Care and have worked thru this whole thing. It's eye opening to see what some have to live with, what they're willing to live with and the ones who just won't budge from their own specific stand point. Kudos to you and your calmness and clarity. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. Agreed. I didn't hoard, I didn't panic, I listened to the evidence and do what I can to protect others. Some cloth on my face might stop other people suffering and dying. It's a no brainer. "I listened to the evidance " is this the evidance that the experts where saying masks do absolutely bollox all at the beginning of this whole farce?" That's the funny thing with research, you discover new information. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. Agreed. I didn't hoard, I didn't panic, I listened to the evidence and do what I can to protect others. Some cloth on my face might stop other people suffering and dying. It's a no brainer. "I listened to the evidance " is this the evidance that the experts where saying masks do absolutely bollox all at the beginning of this whole farce? That's the funny thing with research, you discover new information. " and who would have thought it lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Out of curiosity though. All the people saying yes if a vaccine came and goverments said that they have to mandate it so everyone has to have it. Would you be standing side by side for the peoples rights not to have it if they choose not to? I respect anyones personal choice if they want to have it as its their life. I hope the people saying yes will have the same respect to those that choose not to have it and if it was ever to be mandatory that both yes and no groups would stand together as one against such a thing. Nope. I won't have any respect for the decision of those anti-science conspiracy theorists who refuse the vaccine. Their choice not only affects themselves but society as a whole. Bluntly put, it is an extremely selfish choice. It would lead to the virus having a greater impact on others than it would if everyone accepted vaccination. That is, more deaths. To the original question, yes to a properly researched and tested vaccine." The assumption that in saying no people are some sort of selfish halfwits is unfounded. I'd not take it right now no but like you, once its properly researched and tested I would. I am neither anti science nor into conspiracy theories however, I am interested in my own health first and foremost. You actually negate your opinion by your requirement of a caveat of it being properly tested and researched, the question asked for a simple yes or no response | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. Agreed. I didn't hoard, I didn't panic, I listened to the evidence and do what I can to protect others. Some cloth on my face might stop other people suffering and dying. It's a no brainer. "I listened to the evidance " is this the evidance that the experts where saying masks do absolutely bollox all at the beginning of this whole farce? No, that's listening to a bit, hearing something that supported your own opinions, then closing your ears to any further evidence that comes along during a rapidly developing situation. Life requires you to adapt to new situations, otherwise you go extinct." One can only hope | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? No, anyone with a medical condition that can't have the vaccine would be put at risk. I would have it, not necessarily for my own sake but for the people who can't have it. We all have a responsibility to contribute to herd immunity of these illnesses, choosing not to have it without medical reasons is selfish. Bullshit You will have the vaccine because you are terrified and watch the news 24/7 and are in fear. The people that dont wear masks for example are the ones that feel covid isnt anything worst than a flu and are not in fear... the mask wearers are the ones terrified and the ones that emptied the shelfs of toilet roll and hand sanitizer and baby food, you didnt give a shit about other people back then it was everyman for then selfs. So quit with the if you dont wear a mask/take the vaccine then your selfish BS. Your posts are like a car crash - you know you shouldn't look but cannot help it. I wear a mask cos it's such a small imposition and may help others. I wear a mask but didn't buy any hand sanitiser or extra loo roll. I always think of others and have had annual flu jabs for the sake of others, when working. You ARE selfish if you do not wear a mask and can. Agreed. I didn't hoard, I didn't panic, I listened to the evidence and do what I can to protect others. Some cloth on my face might stop other people suffering and dying. It's a no brainer. "I listened to the evidance " is this the evidance that the experts where saying masks do absolutely bollox all at the beginning of this whole farce? That's the funny thing with research, you discover new information. " And it's there to be read rather than a third person relaying it on the TV. But sadly some people get one thing in their heads and won't be swayed by reason and evidence. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think I would prefer to have an antibody test first." If the tests are cheaper than the vacc, then I'm positive they'll happen first. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer" How do you know it is safe and adequately tested ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer" Have you ever heard of thalidomide? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No. I don’t buy into all the conspiracy theories- I just don’t want to have something injected into me that has been rushed through. Look at the balls up over PPE. The government is throwing money at the situation trying to look like they are calm and in control. Instead they spent millions on ineffective equipment. There’s no way in hell I would trust anything that this shower of shit government to greenlights right now." The govt is funding it, the scientists are creating/testing potential vaccines. If it was being done by the govt, I'd agree. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide?" This wasn't a vaccine. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. " Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! " How about the vaccines for measles, smallpox, Flu, Yelloe Fever ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! " That was about 70 years ago!!! Do you not think that maybe things have moved on bit since then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide?" Sure. I've also heard of the ways in which we've learned from that so it won't happen again | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! That was about 70 years ago!!! Do you not think that maybe things have moved on bit since then? " I wholeheartedly agree, and I’m not usually an “antivaxxer. I just want to be a bit cautious about a drug that is being rushed through. The op said it was a “no brainier” - I’m saying I would like to see evidence that a vaccine was workable and had no side effects before I willingly had it injected into my body. That is all. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? Sure. I've also heard of the ways in which we've learned from that so it won't happen again "That’s a good point  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! That was about 70 years ago!!! Do you not think that maybe things have moved on bit since then? I wholeheartedly agree, and I’m not usually an “antivaxxer. I just want to be a bit cautious about a drug that is being rushed through. The op said it was a “no brainier” - I’m saying I would like to see evidence that a vaccine was workable and had no side effects before I willingly had it injected into my body. That is all. " That's the process they're going through at the moment, different types of trial. Some of the acceleration at the moment is regulatory, too. The scientific method is supposed to look for problems along the way. I think that - if it's not interfered with politically - any issues will be thoroughly examined by the people qualified to do so. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! That was about 70 years ago!!! Do you not think that maybe things have moved on bit since then? I wholeheartedly agree, and I’m not usually an “antivaxxer. I just want to be a bit cautious about a drug that is being rushed through. The op said it was a “no brainier” - I’m saying I would like to see evidence that a vaccine was workable and had no side effects before I willingly had it injected into my body. That is all. That's the process they're going through at the moment, different types of trial. Some of the acceleration at the moment is regulatory, too. The scientific method is supposed to look for problems along the way. I think that - if it's not interfered with politically - any issues will be thoroughly examined by the people qualified to do so." Well yes- but until there is rigorous evidence to say it’s safe - I’m a no | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers. Well I'm healthy and fit with a healthy immune system as are millions of others and if contracting covid may not even know it or nothing worse than a cold. So do us healthy people have to put ourselfs at risk and take a rushed through unproven vaccine unknown wether it will be safe with no side effects in a year or 2 down the line to protect people that probably been living on highly processed shit food and sugary drinks most of their lives and smoke?? I dont think so. " Good point | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok. That's what they're doing. The threshold for safety for approval in most countries is very high." That’s great! So for the moment- no, until the threshold it met | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's astonishing that "I donwanna get a needle because I don't understand medicine or regulatory processes, and I'll be fine so fuck you" has been rebranded as a brave, noble, informed choice.
Public health relies upon all of us doing our bit.
I don't think it's been rebranded as brave or noble though, most people as above are against anti vaxxers.
Is it not shaky ground though to become part of a society where choice is taken away from people and things be forced on people? How will they enforce it? Aren't we then infringing human rights? "I think I answered this above. The majority of human rights are qualified, and can be over-ridden for the greater good. Anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken both as to the intent and meaning of the ECHR and all subsequent legislation. Or more likely the kind of sad human rights tourist who mistakes a system of rights and responsibilities by which we qualify for rights as a personal licence to do as they wish, as if that is the only law. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it not shaky ground though to become part of a society where choice is taken away from people and things be forced on people? How will they enforce it? Aren't we then infringing human rights? I think I answered this above. The majority of human rights are qualified, and can be over-ridden for the greater good. Anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken both as to the intent and meaning of the ECHR and all subsequent legislation. Or more likely the kind of sad human rights tourist who mistakes a system of rights and responsibilities by which we qualify for rights as a personal licence to do as they wish, as if that is the only law." Nice explanation. They should be Societal Rights not just human rights. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! " I only know it as an anti-emetic. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! I only know it as an anti-emetic. " Well you need to do a bit more reading then. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok so being devils advocate ...... if you and your family are vaccinated and therefore safe from the virus ... what difference does it make to you if someone chooses not to be vaccinated? The only ones that would be putting themselves at risk by choice then would be the anti vaccers because everyone else would electively have it? The medically vulnerable who can't have it are put at risk by anti vaxxers. Well I'm healthy and fit with a healthy immune system as are millions of others and if contracting covid may not even know it or nothing worse than a cold. So do us healthy people have to put ourselfs at risk and take a rushed through unproven vaccine unknown wether it will be safe with no side effects in a year or 2 down the line to protect people that probably been living on highly processed shit food and sugary drinks most of their lives and smoke?? I dont think so. Good point" Bless | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! I only know it as an anti-emetic. Well you need to do a bit more reading then." I haven't done any reading on thalidomide and since it has no relevance to me I don't intend to. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! I only know it as an anti-emetic. Well you need to do a bit more reading then. I haven't done any reading on thalidomide and since it has no relevance to me I don't intend to. " Well why get involved in the specific conversation in the first place then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is it not shaky ground though to become part of a society where choice is taken away from people and things be forced on people? How will they enforce it? Aren't we then infringing human rights? I think I answered this above. The majority of human rights are qualified, and can be over-ridden for the greater good. Anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken both as to the intent and meaning of the ECHR and all subsequent legislation. Or more likely the kind of sad human rights tourist who mistakes a system of rights and responsibilities by which we qualify for rights as a personal licence to do as they wish, as if that is the only law. Nice explanation. They should be Societal Rights not just human rights. "Or, living in society means rights and responsibilities. We all do better if we help each other. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Out of curiosity though. All the people saying yes if a vaccine came and goverments said that they have to mandate it so everyone has to have it. Would you be standing side by side for the peoples rights not to have it if they choose not to? I respect anyones personal choice if they want to have it as its their life. I hope the people saying yes will have the same respect to those that choose not to have it and if it was ever to be mandatory that both yes and no groups would stand together as one against such a thing. Nope. I won't have any respect for the decision of those anti-science conspiracy theorists who refuse the vaccine. Their choice not only affects themselves but society as a whole. Bluntly put, it is an extremely selfish choice. It would lead to the virus having a greater impact on others than it would if everyone accepted vaccination. That is, more deaths. To the original question, yes to a properly researched and tested vaccine. The assumption that in saying no people are some sort of selfish halfwits is unfounded. I'd not take it right now no but like you, once its properly researched and tested I would. I am neither anti science nor into conspiracy theories however, I am interested in my own health first and foremost. You actually negate your opinion by your requirement of a caveat of it being properly tested and researched, the question asked for a simple yes or no response "I think my qualification was reasonable, and I am inherently resistant to reductive arguments. The best I could do would be to reduce it to probably | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! I only know it as an anti-emetic. Well you need to do a bit more reading then. I haven't done any reading on thalidomide and since it has no relevance to me I don't intend to. Well why get involved in the specific conversation in the first place then? " You asked about the drug, I knew it was prescribed for morning sickness when my mother was pregnant with my sister, and know of people with affected limbs because of it. Knowing it wasn't a vaccine I wondered how it was relevant to the post, especially when others have stated vaccines are regulated more strictly than regular meds. I didn't read a requirement that I needed to know everything about thalidomide before joining the conversation | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! I only know it as an anti-emetic. Well you need to do a bit more reading then. I haven't done any reading on thalidomide and since it has no relevance to me I don't intend to. Well why get involved in the specific conversation in the first place then? You asked about the drug, I knew it was prescribed for morning sickness when my mother was pregnant with my sister, and know of people with affected limbs because of it. Knowing it wasn't a vaccine I wondered how it was relevant to the post, especially when others have stated vaccines are regulated more strictly than regular meds. I didn't read a requirement that I needed to know everything about thalidomide before joining the conversation "It’s a prime example of drugs being issued that cause more harm than good. Whether or not it was a vaccine is irrelevant- the point is that people trusted pharmaceuticals and then paid the price. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I do find it odd that a bunch of lay people feel qualified to judge whether potential vaccines for a novel pathogen will or will not be safe enough. Immunology isn't a walk in the park." The bigger issue is that the debate is actually happening over this. The antivaxxers didn't appear overnight. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes why wouldn’t you. No brainer Have you ever heard of thalidomide? This wasn't a vaccine. Perhaps not, but it was a widely used and scientifically approved drug that had devastating consequences. One of the illnesses it was thought to treat was influenza. The old saying of the cure being worse than the disease springs to mind!! I only know it as an anti-emetic. Well you need to do a bit more reading then. I haven't done any reading on thalidomide and since it has no relevance to me I don't intend to. Well why get involved in the specific conversation in the first place then? You asked about the drug, I knew it was prescribed for morning sickness when my mother was pregnant with my sister, and know of people with affected limbs because of it. Knowing it wasn't a vaccine I wondered how it was relevant to the post, especially when others have stated vaccines are regulated more strictly than regular meds. I didn't read a requirement that I needed to know everything about thalidomide before joining the conversation
It’s a prime example of drugs being issued that cause more harm than good. Whether or not it was a vaccine is irrelevant- the point is that people trusted pharmaceuticals and then paid the price.
"I could see your point but not "how it was relevant to the post, especially when others have stated vaccines are regulated more strictly than regular meds". And due to knowing the side effect, I didn't need to read more either. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I do find it odd that a bunch of lay people feel qualified to judge whether potential vaccines for a novel pathogen will or will not be safe enough. Immunology isn't a walk in the park. The bigger issue is that the debate is actually happening over this. The antivaxxers didn't appear overnight." Antivaxxers have existed since Jenner, but have had resurgences over time. Wakefield and McCarthy, along with the anti expert culture, have much to answer for. It costs lives. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I do find it odd that a bunch of lay people feel qualified to judge whether potential vaccines for a novel pathogen will or will not be safe enough. Immunology isn't a walk in the park." With discoveries regularly occurring. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I do find it odd that a bunch of lay people feel qualified to judge whether potential vaccines for a novel pathogen will or will not be safe enough. Immunology isn't a walk in the park." For me, it’s not about what will or will not work (although of course- I really hope that a working vaccine is found!) - my main concern is that there is a massive rush to push out a vaccine, and that things are so chaotic at the moment- safety measures will be skimmed over. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I do find it odd that a bunch of lay people feel qualified to judge whether potential vaccines for a novel pathogen will or will not be safe enough. Immunology isn't a walk in the park. With discoveries regularly occurring. " Indeed. And vaccines have been such a phenomenal public health success, they're held to extremely high safety standards, etc. It blows my mind that people think they're qualified to reject such a huge public health benefit for what usually amounts to a miniscule risk to themselves. And more likely than not a benefit to themselves. Particularly with the utter lack of awareness of basic statistics, science, etc on display. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
