FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > SAME AS SWEDEN
SAME AS SWEDEN
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours.
Yet Sweden did not lockdown. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eep.Man
over a year ago
Just a background character |
And they are more attractive than us, and they are happier than us, and they invented Ikea, and they have better weather, and did any one ever book a British Massage. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Sweden has a far lower population density, particularly in cities where vivid spreads most rapidly, far fewer inter generational households, less over crowding on public transport, had PPE stockpiled and gave very strong public health messages around social distancing which have been followed. Mask wearing took off sooner too. So OP, you are not comparing like with like. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
We're very different countries, including having different behavioural profiles. Sweden did have some local authorities impose restrictions, they haven't totally lived with unconstrained freedom.
The exponential growth of infections early on in the UK, doubling the number of people every 3 days or so, would have caused significant catastrophic levels of infection, death, hospitalizations and permanent health disability that wouldnt leave us equal to Sweden. Their health services are also better funded than ours, with higher levels of intensive care capacity.
We could not have coped if we'd taken their approach and op and others here may no longer be alive. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ?
It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Didn’t the OP not get the memo.
We stopped comparing ourselves to other countries when we overtook them months ago."
Italy was horrifying/ outrageous/ incompetent at 1000 deaths in February/ March.
The UK is world beating don't look at other countries oh look a dinghy |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ?
It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ?"
This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up.
Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours.
Yet Sweden did not lockdown. "
**”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”**
——————————-
Sweden not locking down did them NO favours.
They assumed that by carrying on, and not going into Lockdown like other European countries did, that not locking down will save their economy - but it didn't.
Instead they have the highest death rate in Scandinavia and their economy is in trouble on top of that. So nothing gained for Sweden, - if anything they suffered a *double* loss.
Regarding the public health issue of not locking down this is what their top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell had to say:
"If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,”
And with regards to their economy:
Their Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as much as the rest of the EU.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Yet Sweden did not lockdown.
**”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”**
——————————-
Sweden not locking down did them NO favours.
"
Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours either, only prolonging the inevitable. Even New Zealand has discovered there is no hiding from Covid, even behind strict quarantine & closed borders.
Sen may not have done any better but they certainly haven't done any worse. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours.
Yet Sweden did not lockdown.
**”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”**
——————————-
Sweden not locking down did them NO favours.
They assumed that by carrying on, and not going into Lockdown like other European countries did, that not locking down will save their economy - but it didn't.
Instead they have the highest death rate in Scandinavia and their economy is in trouble on top of that. So nothing gained for Sweden, - if anything they suffered a *double* loss.
Regarding the public health issue of not locking down this is what their top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell had to say:
"If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,”
And with regards to their economy:
Their Finance Minister Magdalena Andersson recently warned that Sweden is facing its worst economic crisis since World War II, with GDP set to slump 7% in 2020, roughly as much as the rest of the EU.
And ours has just slumped by 20.4% with the worst recession in UK history on the way
never mind since the war.
"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ?
It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ?
This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up.
Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government?"
It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong.
It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ?
It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ?
This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up.
Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government?
It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong.
It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason! "
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Swedes follow the rules, Brits break them which does not help."
Not so sure. We've met swedish couples on holiday before covid I hasten to add and they are as fed up of their country's government as we are. As a general rule we all grumble about our government LOL. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ?
It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ?
This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up.
Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government?
It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong.
It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason!
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause."
Wow - talk about proving the point!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Swedes follow the rules, Brits break them which does not help.
Not so sure. We've met swedish couples on holiday before covid I hasten to add and they are as fed up of their country's government as we are. As a general rule we all grumble about our government LOL."
p.s. It's probably why all politicians ignore us because we are all grumbling about them all the time no matter what they do, except when it comes to election time of course. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ?
It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ?
This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up.
Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government?
It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong.
It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason!
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause."
I'm following the data. Shrug. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause."
I’m intrigued. Are you of the opinion that if we hadn’t locked down that the number of cases and hospitalisations would have plateaued and we would have the same numbers as now.
If so can you point to the evidence to back it up. If not what number of deaths would you class as acceptable so that the country could carry on as it was. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I'm not sure some people get it.
I'm not supporting Lockdown FC. It's not a football team or a political allegiance.
I'm supporting putting an end to this thing. Living without fear.
Not by waving our hands, accepting mass death and disability, and saying it'll all be fine.
By everyone chipping in and slowing the spread. Us all protecting each other.
This isn't politics. It's basic human decency. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Yet Sweden did not lockdown. "
Nor did they crash the economy that will cause thousands more deaths.
And if anyone cares to remember 'lockdown' was only to stop the NHS being overwhelmed not to try and stop a virus (which is actually impossible).
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Yet Sweden did not lockdown.
Nor did they crash the economy that will cause thousands more deaths.
And if anyone cares to remember 'lockdown' was only to stop the NHS being overwhelmed not to try and stop a virus (which is actually impossible).
"
Smallpox would like a word with you. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm not sure some people get it.
I'm not supporting Lockdown FC. It's not a football team or a political allegiance.
I'm supporting putting an end to this thing. Living without fear.
Not by waving our hands, accepting mass death and disability, and saying it'll all be fine.
By everyone chipping in and slowing the spread. Us all protecting each other.
This isn't politics. It's basic human decency."
"Chipping in"? That's what Bill Gates wants, isn't it? MICROCHIPS IN MY BLOOD! INHALED VIA MASKS! YOU'RE ALL IN ON IT! WAAAA!
Etc.
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"
Yet Sweden did not lockdown.
**”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”**
——————————-
Sweden not locking down did them NO favours.
Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours either, only prolonging the inevitable. Even New Zealand has discovered there is no hiding from Covid, even behind strict quarantine & closed borders.
Sen may not have done any better but they certainly haven't done any worse."
**”... Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours ...”**
——————————-
Lockdown prevented our NHS from becoming overwhelmed & reduced the rate of virus transmission. So it had some positives for us.
And as for New Zealand, lockdown plus other drastic measures they took explains why they have only 22 deaths to date ( among the lowest death rates per million in the world)
And due to their very low to zero infection record, they were able to lift *all* restrictions up until a few days ago when they had a handful of new cases.
You also say: “Sweden may not have done any better....”
Yes Sweden haven’t done any better. They assumed that not going into lockdown like their neighbours did was a better decision to take.
But it backfired - they suffered a double loss instead. They have the highest death rate in Scandinavia & and their economy is facing its worst crisis since world war 2. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So what?
We did. Suck it up buttercup. how can you say that when millions of lives are so negatively impacted by a pointless lockdown: and not just impacted now but will be for years to come. "
So the harm of the virus is fake and the harm of lockdown is real? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back
Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So what?
We did. Suck it up buttercup. how can you say that when millions of lives are so negatively impacted by a pointless lockdown: and not just impacted now but will be for years to come.
So the harm of the virus is fake and the harm of lockdown is real?"
the harm of lock down is bigger and more harsh with a longer negative impact than the virus |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back
Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? "
you fail to mention what the numbers would be without the lockdown.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Yet Sweden did not lockdown.
**”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”**
——————————-
Sweden not locking down did them NO favours.
Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours either, only prolonging the inevitable. Even New Zealand has discovered there is no hiding from Covid, even behind strict quarantine & closed borders.
Sen may not have done any better but they certainly haven't done any worse.
**”... Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours ...”**
——————————-
Lockdown prevented our NHS from becoming overwhelmed & reduced the rate of virus transmission. So it had some positives for us.
And as for New Zealand, lockdown plus other drastic measures they took explains why they have only 22 deaths to date ( among the lowest death rates per million in the world)
And due to their very low to zero infection record, they were able to lift *all* restrictions up until a few days ago when they had a handful of new cases.
You also say: “Sweden may not have done any better....”
Yes Sweden haven’t done any better. They assumed that not going into lockdown like their neighbours did was a better decision to take.
But it backfired - they suffered a double loss instead. They have the highest death rate in Scandinavia & and their economy is facing its worst crisis since world war 2. "
your explanation about Sweden is actually very wrong their economy is facing its worst crises since World War Two due to world issues not there’s and actually the economy is due to shrink less than most. They work on somthing called a hit rate ( you will need to google ) which infact yes means they saw a larger climb in infections and death rates than others but actually they are now pretty much at the same level as those that went into lockdown and are expected to see a slower and lower infection rate over the next 6 months than most as their younger more resilinant generations have already been infected therefore at less risk of now passing it on. Read science not the daily mail. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back
Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? you fail to mention what the numbers would be without the lockdown. "
that’s because there is not such science or modelling that is able to tell you that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
If you really want to believe that lockdown was needed and measures in place are still
Needed them you would not leave your home for anything what so ever as you would believe we are all did in the next few years anyway. The only way to iradicate a virus would be to have a full 4 weeks of house arrest for every person in this country that means no police no food shopping no delivery to your door no hospital no medical
Care no anything what so ever foreign travel would need to be banned for ever and inbound goods would need 14 day quarantine. That’s science for you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause.
I’m intrigued. Are you of the opinion that if we hadn’t locked down that the number of cases and hospitalisations would have plateaued and we would have the same numbers as now.
If so can you point to the evidence to back it up. If not what number of deaths would you class as acceptable so that the country could carry on as it was."
to be fair over a million deaths would still not be that traumatic if we had not locked down but had actually given advice to those at risk. The fall out from lockdown will impact more people in a worse way than Covid 19 ever could. Fancy being the family member of a cancer patient who is now dead as they was not diagnosed in time due to Covid restrictions. 1 life saved = another life lost. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I will
Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause.
I’m intrigued. Are you of the opinion that if we hadn’t locked down that the number of cases and hospitalisations would have plateaued and we would have the same numbers as now.
If so can you point to the evidence to back it up. If not what number of deaths would you class as acceptable so that the country could carry on as it was. to be fair over a million deaths would still not be that traumatic if we had not locked down but had actually given advice to those at risk. The fall out from lockdown will impact more people in a worse way than Covid 19 ever could. Fancy being the family member of a cancer patient who is now dead as they was not diagnosed in time due to Covid restrictions. 1 life saved = another life lost. "
Did you just say that a million deaths would be acceptable?
You what now |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I will
Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better "
You do know that London bus drivers have died disproportionately, don't you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I will
Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better
You do know that London bus drivers have died disproportionately, don't you?"
compared with what??? You do know how many bus drivers there are don’t you? You are aware that 5k deaths have been chalked off the official Covid 19 death rate as you can’t just be classed as dieing from covid just because you had it once. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I will
Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better
You do know that London bus drivers have died disproportionately, don't you? compared with what??? You do know how many bus drivers there are don’t you? You are aware that 5k deaths have been chalked off the official Covid 19 death rate as you can’t just be classed as dieing from covid just because you had it once. "
Look up the word disproportionate and try again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause.
I’m intrigued. Are you of the opinion that if we hadn’t locked down that the number of cases and hospitalisations would have plateaued and we would have the same numbers as now.
If so can you point to the evidence to back it up. If not what number of deaths would you class as acceptable so that the country could carry on as it was. to be fair over a million deaths would still not be that traumatic if we had not locked down but had actually given advice to those at risk. The fall out from lockdown will impact more people in a worse way than Covid 19 ever could. Fancy being the family member of a cancer patient who is now dead as they was not diagnosed in time due to Covid restrictions. 1 life saved = another life lost.
Did you just say that a million deaths would be acceptable?
You what now"
that is 1.5% of this population of which at least .5% would have died from other causes over the next 6-12 months ( from their time of death ). Lockdown is expected to be directly responsible for circa 50k deaths from missed appointments, missed operations, and continued decline in people’s mental health ( particularly those aged over 70 ) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I will
Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better
You do know that London bus drivers have died disproportionately, don't you? compared with what??? You do know how many bus drivers there are don’t you? You are aware that 5k deaths have been chalked off the official Covid 19 death rate as you can’t just be classed as dieing from covid just because you had it once.
Look up the word disproportionate and try again."
I think maybe you need to go and do some research and not just read newspaper articles |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
So. Let me get my "facts" straight.
A million Covid deaths are acceptable.
I don't care about key workers.
London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers.
Is that right? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours.
Yet Sweden did not lockdown. "
But we got boris and he got brexit done  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So apparently according to the Royal Society of Medicine London exposure to the virus is 17% which is the same as Stockholm and the Swedish death rate proportional to their population is similar or slightly better than ours.
Yet Sweden did not lockdown.
But we got boris and he got brexit done "
this did make me laugh I have to say i give you a virtual cheers with this cold beer I have just opened |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed."
Apparently a million deaths is an acceptable price to pay to save 50k who might die this year of other causes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So. Let me get my "facts" straight.
A million Covid deaths are acceptable.
I don't care about key workers.
London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers.
Is that right?"
A million deaths yes as people will
Now die and suffer from
Other things. Check your statics for bus driver deaths against last 10 years also research what makes them different to other transport workers DLR for instance.
Ask yourself for the period of lockdown did you shop, get deliveries, have take out, get on public transport, use a cab if the answer is yes to any of that then you where prepared to put others lives at risk if you believe lockdown was the correct thing to do. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have been sensible with lockdown but we should have stopped at closure of large gatherings anything over 100, we should have invested in track and trace and the NHS. You can’t beat a virus but you can decide not to ruin the economy and the country |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back
Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? you fail to mention what the numbers would be without the lockdown. that’s because there is not such science or modelling that is able to tell you that. "
You can always look at the figures for example Basil who didnt. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So. Let me get my "facts" straight.
A million Covid deaths are acceptable.
I don't care about key workers.
London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers.
Is that right?
A million deaths yes as people will
Now die and suffer from
Other things. Check your statics for bus driver deaths against last 10 years also research what makes them different to other transport workers DLR for instance.
Ask yourself for the period of lockdown did you shop, get deliveries, have take out, get on public transport, use a cab if the answer is yes to any of that then you where prepared to put others lives at risk if you believe lockdown was the correct thing to do. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have been sensible with lockdown but we should have stopped at closure of large gatherings anything over 100, we should have invested in track and trace and the NHS. You can’t beat a virus but you can decide not to ruin the economy and the country "
was no reason to close pubs, schools, shops or anything like that at all offer support and advice to those that fitted into the at risk catogaries |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Lockdown eased the pressure on the NHS for a small period of time with no real thought for how it will cope after lock down with the increased Covid cases as well as the normal uplift in flu season admissions And the back
Log of all other tests and operations that need doing and now also a extra proportion or elderly and youNo who will contract cold and flu during winter months that the would have got in spring or summer. All the money that was spent on furlough dureing lockdown and these silly schemes to get people back out should have been used to suppourt the NHS and bolster it for coming months. All lockdown had done is fucked the economy, people’s mental and physical well being and ruined children’s eduction. The NHS is now due to crash and burn in the winter actually due to lockdown but they keep that off the agenda. Less 800 000 people world wide have died from Covid 19 in the past 9 months that is absolutely nothing what so ever. We have literally saved a few at the expense of the whole. If there’s a packed sinking ship and a sinking life boat and You can only save one which do you do??? you fail to mention what the numbers would be without the lockdown. that’s because there is not such science or modelling that is able to tell you that. You can always look at the figures for example Basil who didnt."
even so there is no science or eveidence to support that we would be the same worse or better than them over a 12 month period |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So. Let me get my "facts" straight.
A million Covid deaths are acceptable.
I don't care about key workers.
London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers.
Is that right?
A million deaths yes as people will
Now die and suffer from
Other things. Check your statics for bus driver deaths against last 10 years also research what makes them different to other transport workers DLR for instance.
Ask yourself for the period of lockdown did you shop, get deliveries, have take out, get on public transport, use a cab if the answer is yes to any of that then you where prepared to put others lives at risk if you believe lockdown was the correct thing to do. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have been sensible with lockdown but we should have stopped at closure of large gatherings anything over 100, we should have invested in track and trace and the NHS. You can’t beat a virus but you can decide not to ruin the economy and the country "
It’s because of the lack of test and trace, because of the lack of nhs funding, because of the crap social care system that we had to lockdown. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And they are more attractive than us, and they are happier than us, and they invented Ikea, and they have better weather, and did any one ever book a British Massage. "
Love this |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed."
is that not what we have just done but the other way round ??? Let’s close the hospital no you can’t come here and have your cancer, heart operation / diagnoses just because we may get someone in who may have Covid. Oh sorry you will now die cause we never treated you
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I don't know what rubbish you're reading, but if you believe a million deaths is an acceptable toll, and that wiping out a huge proportion of the population won't have economic repercussions, then I have nothing to say.
Stay safe. Stay well. Keep your distance. Wear a mask.
Oh, and don't think Googling constitutes research. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed. is that not what we have just done but the other way round ??? Let’s close the hospital no you can’t come here and have your cancer, heart operation / diagnoses just because we may get someone in who may have Covid. Oh sorry you will now die cause we never treated you "
May have Covid. Are you saying the hospitals didn’t have Covid patients. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So. Let me get my "facts" straight.
A million Covid deaths are acceptable.
I don't care about key workers.
London bus drivers haven't died disproportionately, because there are lots of bus drivers.
Is that right?
A million deaths yes as people will
Now die and suffer from
Other things. Check your statics for bus driver deaths against last 10 years also research what makes them different to other transport workers DLR for instance.
Ask yourself for the period of lockdown did you shop, get deliveries, have take out, get on public transport, use a cab if the answer is yes to any of that then you where prepared to put others lives at risk if you believe lockdown was the correct thing to do. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have been sensible with lockdown but we should have stopped at closure of large gatherings anything over 100, we should have invested in track and trace and the NHS. You can’t beat a virus but you can decide not to ruin the economy and the country
It’s because of the lack of test and trace, because of the lack of nhs funding, because of the crap social care system that we had to lockdown."
to be fair I can’t argue with you there what so ever and do believe money should have been thrown at all
If that straight away to get it in a better place. But also let’s remember we are one of the only countries where it is pretty much free unless your a tax payer |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed. is that not what we have just done but the other way round ??? Let’s close the hospital no you can’t come here and have your cancer, heart operation / diagnoses just because we may get someone in who may have Covid. Oh sorry you will now die cause we never treated you
May have Covid. Are you saying the hospitals didn’t have Covid patients."
I’m not saying they didn’t what I’m saying is they was closed to people who already had other medical problems or needed them diagnosed but was turned away and Covid took priority thus leaving this others to suffer and in
Many cases die. So it was give or take one way or the other but Covid was the winner and every family with a member who had other issues was basically told to go fuck themselfs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So we dismiss the actual deaths because they were going to die anyway so that we can save the lives of x number of unknown who may die of an illness not yet diagnosed. is that not what we have just done but the other way round ??? Let’s close the hospital no you can’t come here and have your cancer, heart operation / diagnoses just because we may get someone in who may have Covid. Oh sorry you will now die cause we never treated you
May have Covid. Are you saying the hospitals didn’t have Covid patients. I’m not saying they didn’t what I’m saying is they was closed to people who already had other medical problems or needed them diagnosed but was turned away and Covid took priority thus leaving this others to suffer and in
Many cases die. So it was give or take one way or the other but Covid was the winner and every family with a member who had other issues was basically told to go fuck themselfs "
Ah I see you’re looking for utopia we’re everyone gets treated. The nhs makes choices every day on who gets treated and who doesn’t. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I don't know what rubbish you're reading, but if you believe a million deaths is an acceptable toll, and that wiping out a huge proportion of the population won't have economic repercussions, then I have nothing to say.
Stay safe. Stay well. Keep your distance. Wear a mask.
Oh, and don't think Googling constitutes research."
I’m
Pretty certain a million deaths over 9 months would not have put us in the situation we are in now with the economy, people’s future, children’s education, mental health. If it was as bad as made out to be then 3rd world And developing countries would be wiped Out by now but they are not. But they will be heart by the lack of charity money that will be heading their way now due to the world economy being in the position it is so they will now see a increased death rate from other areas now. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I don't know what rubbish you're reading, but if you believe a million deaths is an acceptable toll, and that wiping out a huge proportion of the population won't have economic repercussions, then I have nothing to say.
Stay safe. Stay well. Keep your distance. Wear a mask.
Oh, and don't think Googling constitutes research. I’m
Pretty certain a million deaths over 9 months would not have put us in the situation we are in now with the economy, people’s future, children’s education, mental health. If it was as bad as made out to be then 3rd world And developing countries would be wiped Out by now but they are not. But they will be heart by the lack of charity money that will be heading their way now due to the world economy being in the position it is so they will now see a increased death rate from other areas now. "
You're pretty certain?
Ok. Thank you for your learned contribution. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I don't know what rubbish you're reading, but if you believe a million deaths is an acceptable toll, and that wiping out a huge proportion of the population won't have economic repercussions, then I have nothing to say.
Stay safe. Stay well. Keep your distance. Wear a mask.
Oh, and don't think Googling constitutes research. I’m
Pretty certain a million deaths over 9 months would not have put us in the situation we are in now with the economy, people’s future, children’s education, mental health. If it was as bad as made out to be then 3rd world And developing countries would be wiped Out by now but they are not. But they will be heart by the lack of charity money that will be heading their way now due to the world economy being in the position it is so they will now see a increased death rate from other areas now.
You're pretty certain?
Ok. Thank you for your learned contribution."
your most welcome |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ?
It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ?
This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up.
Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government?
It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong.
It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason!
Or more accurately you're desperate to maintain your belief that the lockdown was necessary and totally worth the devastation it has caused and will continue to cause."
The UK lockdown had positives too. Including for the economy, if that is what counts. At the start, exponential growth in infection levels was doubling victims every 3 days or so. It helped to slow that growth to the levels of today.
Without lockdown many thousands of people more would be dead, disabled and the health service would have been overwhelmed. That helped the economy to a significant extent. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"
Yet Sweden did not lockdown.
**”....Yet Sweden did not lock down..,”**
——————————-
Sweden not locking down did them NO favours.
Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours either, only prolonging the inevitable. Even New Zealand has discovered there is no hiding from Covid, even behind strict quarantine & closed borders.
Sen may not have done any better but they certainly haven't done any worse.
**”... Yet it's increasingly clear that lockdowns did the rest of us no favours ...”**
——————————-
Lockdown prevented our NHS from becoming overwhelmed & reduced the rate of virus transmission. So it had some positives for us.
And as for New Zealand, lockdown plus other drastic measures they took explains why they have only 22 deaths to date ( among the lowest death rates per million in the world)
And due to their very low to zero infection record, they were able to lift *all* restrictions up until a few days ago when they had a handful of new cases.
You also say: “Sweden may not have done any better....”
Yes Sweden haven’t done any better. They assumed that not going into lockdown like their neighbours did was a better decision to take.
But it backfired - they suffered a double loss instead. They have the highest death rate in Scandinavia & and their economy is facing its worst crisis since world war 2. your explanation about Sweden is actually very wrong their economy is facing its worst crises since World War Two due to world issues not there’s and actually the economy is due to shrink less than most. They work on somthing called a hit rate ( you will need to google ) which infact yes means they saw a larger climb in infections and death rates than others but actually they are now pretty much at the same level as those that went into lockdown and are expected to see a slower and lower infection rate over the next 6 months than most as their younger more resilinant generations have already been infected therefore at less risk of now passing it on. Read science not the daily mail."
There is no science in what you have said. Sweden’s death rate is the worst in Scandinavia that’s a fact. Even some other Scandinavia countries have imposed restrictions on Swedish tourists as a result of that. Had they locked down like their neighbours they would have had less infections & less deaths.
And covid took a toll on their economy, that’s partly why they are facing their worst crisis since the Second World War. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I will
Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better "
What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea? "
I personally think that when this is eventually over the analysis will show that lockdown actually made very little difference to the eventual outcome.
In the event there is a viable vaccine found in the short term it may be seen as a success however there is absolutely no guarantee of a viable vaccine and in it's abscence the ultimate death & disability toll from covid probably won't be very different.
The additional death toll resulting from lockdown & recession however is likely to be significant - and hard to justify. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Sweden got it largely right, and the British establishment catastrophically wrong. Anders Tegnell, Stockholm’s epidemiologist-king, has pulled off a remarkable triple whammy: far fewer deaths per capita than Britain, a maintenance of basic freedoms and opportunities, including schooling, and, most strikingly, a recession less than half as severe as our own.
Our arrogant quangocrats and state “experts” should hang their heads in shame: their reaction to coronavirus was one of the greatest public policy blunders in modern history, more severe even than Iraq, Afghanistan, the financial crisis, Suez or the ERM fiasco. Millions will lose their jobs when furlough ends; tens of thousands of small businesses are failing; schooling is in chaos, with A-level grades all over the place; vast numbers are likely to die from untreated or undetected illnesses.
Have you spoken up yet?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Sweden is a wonderful cradle to the grave left of centre dominated state. Why are you lefties whinging so much about how badly they have done ?
It just goes to prove that any government can be damned for what they do or don't. There is not right or wrong answer. It's just an attempt to solve the covid conumdrum based on your own countries traditions and way of doing thing. Trying to prove one is right or wrong is silly because there is no road map in these unprecendented times. At end of day Boris and co have gone very keynesian with their response to the pandemic. Isn't that what everyone wants. uhhhhh, I don't understand what all the arguing is about ?
This just in: lefties can hold lefties to account too, when they screw up.
Is that why people think the UK has done so well? Because they think it'll make them a leftie if they dare contemplate the rivers of blood spilt and the economic turmoil caused by our glorious world beating government?
It’s one of the things right wingers can never understand about the left - we’re happy to criticise the left when the left gets it wrong.
It’s almost as if a thoughtful, adult and non-tribal approach to politics for the common good is entirely beyond their understanding, for some reason! "
no it is the other way round the left are irrational and nasty |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I will
Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better
What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea? "
There is study in the Lacet titled.
A country level analysis measuring the impact of government actions, country preparedness and socioeconomic factors on COVID-19 mortality and related health outcomes.
Its findings indicate that the death rate in a country does not correlate with how tight its lockdown was.
It does however correlate strongly with how fat its population is.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I will
Assume that all those who think lockdown was and is still needed also believe NHS, Supermarket workers, delivery drivers, transport workers, emergency service workers are all super human or are disposable as you all carried on needing their suppourt. Proof is in the pudding right there they all carried on and they are still alive there is no extra proportion of those workers right there that died compared with those that stayed home. Lockdown was pointless and the quicker people see that the better
What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea?
There is study in the Lacet titled.
A country level analysis measuring the impact of government actions, country preparedness and socioeconomic factors on COVID-19 mortality and related health outcomes.
Its findings indicate that the death rate in a country does not correlate with how tight its lockdown was.
It does however correlate strongly with how fat its population is.
"
That doesn't answer the question asked though  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
What would have been the outcome, if the UK had not had its lockdown, in terms of covid-19 deaths and long-term acquired morbidities, the current infection levels, if we'd taken your no lockdown idea?
I personally think that when this is eventually over the analysis will show that lockdown actually made very little difference to the eventual outcome.
In the event there is a viable vaccine found in the short term it may be seen as a success however there is absolutely no guarantee of a viable vaccine and in it's abscence the ultimate death & disability toll from covid probably won't be very different.
The additional death toll resulting from lockdown & recession however is likely to be significant - and hard to justify."
That doesn't answer the question though, either |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The only similarity between the U.K. and Sweden is that both failed miserably at protecting their care home residents."
But Sweden have done far better in Eurovision recently! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
