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Total Shambles
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53433824
History is full of "we should haves""
In this instance we didn't have to wait for history to be made and written about. The government had had notice and the evidence elsewhere as well as from the UK. Specialists were convening and advising, with certain prime ministers not attending the emergency meetings.
The pandemic testing exercise was undertaken just a couple of years ago, which highlighted our desperate unreadiness, lack of supies including PPE etc. Johnson said last week he'd still not read the report! Imagine at the start of a global epidemic deciding not to order supplies, prepare nor even read the official report of the Cygnus dummy run test that checked if we were ready! You really couldn't make it up!! 
It's horrific and postponing things until they have become history kicks the can si far down the road that we miss opportunities to improve things before the next predictable waves of the catastrophe. Winter brings a series of infections each year - this year we have covid-19 joining them.
Accepting how things are is probably the best way to plan how to progress. |
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"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have' 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing."
No, forsight is a wonderful thing, hindsight is just a lazy excuse for being unprepared.
Germany were doing test and trace in JANUARY. That's why Germany has a low death rate and a low infection rate. We didn't even officially acknowledge the virus until
Febuary, 2 months after even the BBC were reporting it as a potentially deadly pandemic spreading through Hubei Provence in China.
Make all the excuses you want to defend Boris and the Tories but the truth is simple. They didn't care because it was a distraction from what they were really doing - internal fighting about a no deal brexit. 60k more Brits died than Germany JUST to prove a political point. That's not hindsight, its murder. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
No, forsight is a wonderful thing, hindsight is just a lazy excuse for being unprepared.
Germany were doing test and trace in JANUARY. That's why Germany has a low death rate and a low infection rate. We didn't even officially acknowledge the virus until
Febuary, 2 months after even the BBC were reporting it as a potentially deadly pandemic spreading through Hubei Provence in China.
Make all the excuses you want to defend Boris and the Tories but the truth is simple. They didn't care because it was a distraction from what they were really doing - internal fighting about a no deal brexit. 60k more Brits died than Germany JUST to prove a political point. That's not hindsight, its murder. "
Like the Russian interference... They just don’t care.
This government have no moral compass. It’s time we stopped expecting them to behave as if they did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
No, forsight is a wonderful thing, hindsight is just a lazy excuse for being unprepared.
Germany were doing test and trace in JANUARY. That's why Germany has a low death rate and a low infection rate. We didn't even officially acknowledge the virus until
Febuary, 2 months after even the BBC were reporting it as a potentially deadly pandemic spreading through Hubei Provence in China.
Make all the excuses you want to defend Boris and the Tories but the truth is simple. They didn't care because it was a distraction from what they were really doing - internal fighting about a no deal brexit. 60k more Brits died than Germany JUST to prove a political point. That's not hindsight, its murder. "
Excuses for who ?
Wtf you on about. |
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"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
As well as our foresight  Another word for forsight is luck"
Luck is fortune. Using what's known intelligently, acting based upon evidence, is just wise. Unfortunately that's not been done here consistently. |
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"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
No, forsight is a wonderful thing, hindsight is just a lazy excuse for being unprepared.
Germany were doing test and trace in JANUARY. That's why Germany has a low death rate and a low infection rate. We didn't even officially acknowledge the virus until Febuary, 2 months after even the BBC were reporting it as a potentially deadly pandemic spreading through Hubei Provence in China.
Make all the excuses you want to defend Boris and the Tories but the truth is simple. They didn't care because it was a distraction from what they were really doing - internal fighting about a no deal brexit. 60k more Brits died than Germany JUST to prove a political point. That's not hindsight, its murder.
Excuses for who ?
Wtf you on about."
I'm on about you making excuses for the shit way this Govt handled the pandemic by saying, constantly, "hindsight is a wonderful thing". You're either trying to troll or you have no concept of the reality behind this governments reaction to the pandemic. Undertand now?
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
No, forsight is a wonderful thing, hindsight is just a lazy excuse for being unprepared.
Germany were doing test and trace in JANUARY. That's why Germany has a low death rate and a low infection rate. We didn't even officially acknowledge the virus until
Febuary, 2 months after even the BBC were reporting it as a potentially deadly pandemic spreading through Hubei Provence in China.
Make all the excuses you want to defend Boris and the Tories but the truth is simple. They didn't care because it was a distraction from what they were really doing - internal fighting about a no deal brexit. 60k more Brits died than Germany JUST to prove a political point. That's not hindsight, its murder. "
Murder? Really? |
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"
Make all the excuses you want to defend Boris and the Tories but the truth is simple. They didn't care because it was a distraction from what they were really doing - internal fighting about a no deal brexit. "
I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world. |
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"
Murder? Really? "
"Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human with malice aforethought. This state of mind may, depending upon the jurisdiction, distinguish murder from other forms of unlawful homicide, such as manslaughter."
At best, state sanctioned manslaughter, at worst 'killing of another human with malice aforethought'. |
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" I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world."
I didn't claim Labour would have been better, i'm clearly stating that Boris and this Tory govt got everything wrong from day 1. Or in their case, 60 or so days after everyone saw what was coming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world.
I didn't claim Labour would have been better, i'm clearly stating that Boris and this Tory govt got everything wrong from day 1. Or in their case, 60 or so days after everyone saw what was coming. "
Easy to judge what someone else is doing. Also easy to compare to a country which manufactures the tests therefore had the ability and priority to test and trace before anyone else. Also good to do the blame game when this is far from over. Let's see what happens in the second wave. |
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"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
No, forsight is a wonderful thing, hindsight is just a lazy excuse for being unprepared.
Germany were doing test and trace in JANUARY. That's why Germany has a low death rate and a low infection rate. We didn't even officially acknowledge the virus until
Febuary, 2 months after even the BBC were reporting it as a potentially deadly pandemic spreading through Hubei Provence in China.
Make all the excuses you want to defend Boris and the Tories but the truth is simple. They didn't care because it was a distraction from what they were really doing - internal fighting about a no deal brexit. 60k more Brits died than Germany JUST to prove a political point. That's not hindsight, its murder.
Murder? Really? "
Corporate Manslaughter is the legal term. If this had been BJ plc, then he would be arrested  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world.
I didn't claim Labour would have been better, i'm clearly stating that Boris and this Tory govt got everything wrong from day 1. Or in their case, 60 or so days after everyone saw what was coming.
Easy to judge what someone else is doing. Also easy to compare to a country which manufactures the tests therefore had the ability and priority to test and trace before anyone else. Also good to do the blame game when this is far from over. Let's see what happens in the second wave. "
And Germany has a decentralised healthcare system with a mix of public/private health insurance (multi-payer system rather than single-payer here in the UK (paid for out of general taxation)) and has a mix of public, private non-profit and private for-profit hospitals.
Different healthcare systems will produce different outcomes. People in UK are not happy with mix of public/private healthcare.
They seem to want to keep a monolithic unwieldy structure so we have a mish mash system which is unfit for purpose. Complete NHS reform is needed not bits and pieces here and there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
No, forsight is a wonderful thing, hindsight is just a lazy excuse for being unprepared.
Germany were doing test and trace in JANUARY. That's why Germany has a low death rate and a low infection rate. We didn't even officially acknowledge the virus until Febuary, 2 months after even the BBC were reporting it as a potentially deadly pandemic spreading through Hubei Provence in China.
Make all the excuses you want to defend Boris and the Tories but the truth is simple. They didn't care because it was a distraction from what they were really doing - internal fighting about a no deal brexit. 60k more Brits died than Germany JUST to prove a political point. That's not hindsight, its murder.
Excuses for who ?
Wtf you on about.
I'm on about you making excuses for the shit way this Govt handled the pandemic by saying, constantly, "hindsight is a wonderful thing". You're either trying to troll or you have no concept of the reality behind this governments reaction to the pandemic. Undertand now?
"
I wasn't making any excuses for anyone.
But it's clear that they should sack the whole government because George from fabswingers had all the answer for this unprecedented virus.
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" I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world.
I didn't claim Labour would have been better, i'm clearly stating that Boris and this Tory govt got everything wrong from day 1. Or in their case, 60 or so days after everyone saw what was coming.
Easy to judge what someone else is doing. Also easy to compare to a country which manufactures the tests therefore had the ability and priority to test and trace before anyone else. Also good to do the blame game when this is far from over. Let's see what happens in the second wave.
And Germany has a decentralised healthcare system with a mix of public/private health insurance (multi-payer system rather than single-payer here in the UK (paid for out of general taxation)) and has a mix of public, private non-profit and private for-profit hospitals.
Different healthcare systems will produce different outcomes. People in UK are not happy with mix of public/private healthcare.
They seem to want to keep a monolithic unwieldy structure so we have a mish mash system which is unfit for purpose. Complete NHS reform is needed not bits and pieces here and there. "
Why is unfit for purpose?
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the nhs largely managed to handle one of the worst medical crises we have ever seen |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world.
I didn't claim Labour would have been better, i'm clearly stating that Boris and this Tory govt got everything wrong from day 1. Or in their case, 60 or so days after everyone saw what was coming.
Easy to judge what someone else is doing. Also easy to compare to a country which manufactures the tests therefore had the ability and priority to test and trace before anyone else. Also good to do the blame game when this is far from over. Let's see what happens in the second wave.
And Germany has a decentralised healthcare system with a mix of public/private health insurance (multi-payer system rather than single-payer here in the UK (paid for out of general taxation)) and has a mix of public, private non-profit and private for-profit hospitals.
Different healthcare systems will produce different outcomes. People in UK are not happy with mix of public/private healthcare.
They seem to want to keep a monolithic unwieldy structure so we have a mish mash system which is unfit for purpose. Complete NHS reform is needed not bits and pieces here and there.
Why is unfit for purpose?
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the nhs largely managed to handle one of the worst medical crises we have ever seen "
Yes without being overwhelmed.
But people are comparing Germany with UK when it comes to prevention.
Germany has a different health service which allowed them to ramp up testing very quickly.
UK doesn't have a health service which allows it to be as flexible. |
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" I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world.
I didn't claim Labour would have been better, i'm clearly stating that Boris and this Tory govt got everything wrong from day 1. Or in their case, 60 or so days after everyone saw what was coming.
Easy to judge what someone else is doing. Also easy to compare to a country which manufactures the tests therefore had the ability and priority to test and trace before anyone else. Also good to do the blame game when this is far from over. Let's see what happens in the second wave.
And Germany has a decentralised healthcare system with a mix of public/private health insurance (multi-payer system rather than single-payer here in the UK (paid for out of general taxation)) and has a mix of public, private non-profit and private for-profit hospitals.
Different healthcare systems will produce different outcomes. People in UK are not happy with mix of public/private healthcare.
They seem to want to keep a monolithic unwieldy structure so we have a mish mash system which is unfit for purpose. Complete NHS reform is needed not bits and pieces here and there.
Why is unfit for purpose?
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the nhs largely managed to handle one of the worst medical crises we have ever seen
Yes without being overwhelmed.
But people are comparing Germany with UK when it comes to prevention.
Germany has a different health service which allowed them to ramp up testing very quickly.
UK doesn't have a health service which allows it to be as flexible. "
People are comparing the handling of the situation compared to us.Not the medical system.
They were,unsurprisingly,much better prepared than us.They have handled it much more efficiently,their death rate is lower,their economy is stronger and they don't have a lying bumbling bafoon making jokes when asked people dying.
That's the difference. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world.
I didn't claim Labour would have been better, i'm clearly stating that Boris and this Tory govt got everything wrong from day 1. Or in their case, 60 or so days after everyone saw what was coming.
Easy to judge what someone else is doing. Also easy to compare to a country which manufactures the tests therefore had the ability and priority to test and trace before anyone else. Also good to do the blame game when this is far from over. Let's see what happens in the second wave.
And Germany has a decentralised healthcare system with a mix of public/private health insurance (multi-payer system rather than single-payer here in the UK (paid for out of general taxation)) and has a mix of public, private non-profit and private for-profit hospitals.
Different healthcare systems will produce different outcomes. People in UK are not happy with mix of public/private healthcare.
They seem to want to keep a monolithic unwieldy structure so we have a mish mash system which is unfit for purpose. Complete NHS reform is needed not bits and pieces here and there.
Why is unfit for purpose?
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the nhs largely managed to handle one of the worst medical crises we have ever seen
Yes without being overwhelmed.
But people are comparing Germany with UK when it comes to prevention.
Germany has a different health service which allowed them to ramp up testing very quickly.
UK doesn't have a health service which allows it to be as flexible.
People are comparing the handling of the situation compared to us.Not the medical system.
They were,unsurprisingly,much better prepared than us.They have handled it much more efficiently,their death rate is lower,their economy is stronger and they don't have a lying bumbling bafoon making jokes when asked people dying.
That's the difference."
No. They have a better more flexible healthcare system with a good mix of private/public - like most European nations. NHS is hamstrung by public opinion and treated like a sacred cow. Complete reform is needed. |
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" I have no liking for politicians of any flavour, but I don't think the other lot would have done any better.
Politicians are inherantly good at rhetoric, but they wouldn't pass muster in the real world.
I didn't claim Labour would have been better, i'm clearly stating that Boris and this Tory govt got everything wrong from day 1. Or in their case, 60 or so days after everyone saw what was coming.
Easy to judge what someone else is doing. Also easy to compare to a country which manufactures the tests therefore had the ability and priority to test and trace before anyone else. Also good to do the blame game when this is far from over. Let's see what happens in the second wave.
And Germany has a decentralised healthcare system with a mix of public/private health insurance (multi-payer system rather than single-payer here in the UK (paid for out of general taxation)) and has a mix of public, private non-profit and private for-profit hospitals.
Different healthcare systems will produce different outcomes. People in UK are not happy with mix of public/private healthcare.
They seem to want to keep a monolithic unwieldy structure so we have a mish mash system which is unfit for purpose. Complete NHS reform is needed not bits and pieces here and there.
Why is unfit for purpose?
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the nhs largely managed to handle one of the worst medical crises we have ever seen
Yes without being overwhelmed.
But people are comparing Germany with UK when it comes to prevention.
Germany has a different health service which allowed them to ramp up testing very quickly.
UK doesn't have a health service which allows it to be as flexible.
People are comparing the handling of the situation compared to us.Not the medical system.
They were,unsurprisingly,much better prepared than us.They have handled it much more efficiently,their death rate is lower,their economy is stronger and they don't have a lying bumbling bafoon making jokes when asked people dying.
That's the difference.
No. They have a better more flexible healthcare system with a good mix of private/public - like most European nations. NHS is hamstrung by public opinion and treated like a sacred cow. Complete reform is needed. "
In what way?
The NHS is one of the few things this country has to be proud about. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Comparing the uk health system to the German health care system is totally wrong they are entirely different same as using the reported figures. Reported UK covid deaths are for people who have tested positive at any time during this pandemic they may of recovered from covid and later died in a car accident. Most of the world in order too look good have posted covid deaths as those testing positive at the time of death.
Germany has a large pharmaceutical research industry that quickly responded to provide the testing facilities. The UK is also a much larger transit hub for international travelers than Germany so was a lot higher risk from infected people arriving. No countries data can be compared to anothers unless they are all reporting on a set standard of facts.. |
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"Comparing the uk health system to the German health care system is totally wrong they are entirely different same as using the reported figures. Reported UK covid deaths are for people who have tested positive at any time during this pandemic they may of recovered from covid and later died in a car accident. Most of the world in order too look good have posted covid deaths as those testing positive at the time of death.
Germany has a large pharmaceutical research industry that quickly responded to provide the testing facilities. The UK is also a much larger transit hub for international travelers than Germany so was a lot higher risk from infected people arriving. No countries data can be compared to anothers unless they are all reporting on a set standard of facts.. "
The thing is the gmnt used to compare us to other countries on a daily basis.
Well until we overtook everyone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And one of the factors in Germanies respone is a more flexible decentralised healthcare system which allowed them to ramp up testing quicker.
ALL factors should be taken into account. |
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Blundering baffoon Johnson's governments handling has been nothing short of abominable. From shaking hands with coronaviris patients, to congratulating himself on his success back when there were 20,000 test, his open schools, close schools fiasco, Dominic Cummings fiasco,failure to put cabinet ministers on GMTV,putting up unknowns to lead the updatesetc etc . Great leaders dont hide I fridges, they lead from the front. While the 3 devolved governments seem to have got the virus under control as best they can the death rate in England is still a big worry. Like a true tory he has put profit before people's lives. |
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By *yn drwgMan
over a year ago
Camarthen |
"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
And a very useful excuse."
Excuse for what your friend Boris has only been in the job for around 9 months, did Teresa may and David Cameron have stocks of PPE at the ready, no and why should they. It's all very well pointing the blame but every country has made mistakes because we are in unknown territory, it's okay to have so called experts give advice but it has to be practical. |
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By *yn drwgMan
over a year ago
Camarthen |
"Blundering baffoon Johnson's governments handling has been nothing short of abominable. From shaking hands with coronaviris patients, to congratulating himself on his success back when there were 20,000 test, his open schools, close schools fiasco, Dominic Cummings fiasco,failure to put cabinet ministers on GMTV,putting up unknowns to lead the updatesetc etc . Great leaders dont hide I fridges, they lead from the front. While the 3 devolved governments seem to have got the virus under control as best they can the death rate in England is still a big worry. Like a true tory he has put profit before people's lives."
Do you really think that the rural areas in England have had it any worse than rural areas in Wales or Scotland, your population is centered around the large cities in England so they would have had it worse.
I can't comment on Sturgeon as I don't know the facts but Mark Drakeford's in Wales has just sat on the fence and waited to see what happens in England for 3 weeks at a time is that leadership! |
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By *yn drwgMan
over a year ago
Camarthen |
"Comparing the uk health system to the German health care system is totally wrong they are entirely different same as using the reported figures. Reported UK covid deaths are for people who have tested positive at any time during this pandemic they may of recovered from covid and later died in a car accident. Most of the world in order too look good have posted covid deaths as those testing positive at the time of death.
Germany has a large pharmaceutical research industry that quickly responded to provide the testing facilities. The UK is also a much larger transit hub for international travelers than Germany so was a lot higher risk from infected people arriving. No countries data can be compared to anothers unless they are all reporting on a set standard of facts.. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thing is pple are treating all this as a disease its not its an airbourne germ too many listen to what boris says, he knows nothing having himself admitting he lied about having it, its all about controlling pple, i work in a res care home and seen what it can do im tested every week and always comes back clear, opening bars, gyms, restaurants, swimming pools ect, shame so many listen to his lies and put there lives on hold until HE says you can you only have one life...live it cos if we have a 2nd wave goodnight vienna. |
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"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
And a very useful excuse.
Excuse for what your friend Boris has only been in the job for around 9 months, did Teresa may and David Cameron have stocks of PPE at the ready, no and why should they. It's all very well pointing the blame but every country has made mistakes because we are in unknown territory, it's okay to have so called experts give advice but it has to be practical."
Why should They be prepared to a pandemic?
Its called foresight. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
And a very useful excuse.
Excuse for what your friend Boris has only been in the job for around 9 months, did Teresa may and David Cameron have stocks of PPE at the ready, no and why should they. It's all very well pointing the blame but every country has made mistakes because we are in unknown territory, it's okay to have so called experts give advice but it has to be practical.
Why should They be prepared to a pandemic?
Its called foresight."
The threat of a world pandemic has been well documented for years now and most countries were not prepared. Boris and his motley crew never took any notice of what was happening in Italy which was a few weeks in front of us pandemic wise. He was not able to learn lessons from this and as such plunged Britain into the worst record for deaths in the world. Boris and his crew are a pruvelidged bunch of inept people who would not survive in the real world if not for their silver spooned legup in life that most of them don't deserve |
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"Could of, should of ,would of.
Try 'have'
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
And a very useful excuse.
Excuse for what your friend Boris has only been in the job for around 9 months, did Teresa may and David Cameron have stocks of PPE at the ready, no and why should they. It's all very well pointing the blame but every country has made mistakes because we are in unknown territory, it's okay to have so called experts give advice but it has to be practical.
Why should They be prepared to a pandemic?
Its called foresight.
The threat of a world pandemic has been well documented for years now and most countries were not prepared. Boris and his motley crew never took any notice of what was happening in Italy which was a few weeks in front of us pandemic wise. He was not able to learn lessons from this and as such plunged Britain into the worst record for deaths in the world. Boris and his crew are a pruvelidged bunch of inept people who would not survive in the real world if not for their silver spooned legup in life that most of them don't deserve "
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