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Will they ever learn?
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People are still getting moved from hospitals to care homes. The hospitals now are not over run so why not leave them there longer?. Carehomes are just a money making business but putting others at risk.
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If you are well enough to be discharged from hospital then you should be. Why should the hospitals keep patients that can be discharged? It makes no difference that they aren't overrun right now they will still need the beds for other patients in other parts.
Don't mean to sound harsh but they are hospitals not hospices, hotels or care homes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People are still getting moved from hospitals to care homes. The hospitals now are not over run so why not leave them there longer?. Carehomes are just a money making business but putting others at risk.
"
Because if they no longer need hospital care, they have to go "home". Funding for health is the public purse. Funding for social care is means tested. |
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"If you are well enough to be discharged from hospital then you should be. Why should the hospitals keep patients that can be discharged? It makes no difference that they aren't overrun right now they will still need the beds for other patients in other parts.
Don't mean to sound harsh but they are hospitals not hospices, hotels or care homes. "
I would usually agree but not in these present times. Our care home has remained virus free and i fear our clients are now being put at risk. |
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"If you are well enough to be discharged from hospital then you should be. Why should the hospitals keep patients that can be discharged? It makes no difference that they aren't overrun right now they will still need the beds for other patients in other parts.
Don't mean to sound harsh but they are hospitals not hospices, hotels or care homes.
I would usually agree but not in these present times. Our care home has remained virus free and i fear our clients are now being put at risk."
Do they test patients before shipping them out? I know my neighbours care home refuse to take any that have tested positive. |
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"If you are well enough to be discharged from hospital then you should be. Why should the hospitals keep patients that can be discharged? It makes no difference that they aren't overrun right now they will still need the beds for other patients in other parts.
Don't mean to sound harsh but they are hospitals not hospices, hotels or care homes.
I would usually agree but not in these present times. Our care home has remained virus free and i fear our clients are now being put at risk.
Do they test patients before shipping them out? I know my neighbours care home refuse to take any that have tested positive. "
One negative test allows them into our care home. I feel this is still a risk. |
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"People are still getting moved from hospitals to care homes. The hospitals now are not over run so why not leave them there longer?. Carehomes are just a money making business but putting others at risk.
Because if they no longer need hospital care, they have to go "home". Funding for health is the public purse. Funding for social care is means tested. "
And also, from experience with my family, the hospital she was in was not equipped to provide care.... That's what care homes are for. I'm no expert and not saying I agree with it. But in another case of a friend of the family, the old man, who had advanced dementure, would have died if left in hospital, he went to an excellent care home and thrived for another 3 years.
Surely it's the right thing to do in some cases, but just do or safely? |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position "
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money. |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money. "
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers. |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers. "
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People are still getting moved from hospitals to care homes. The hospitals now are not over run so why not leave them there longer?. Carehomes are just a money making business but putting others at risk.
Because if they no longer need hospital care, they have to go "home". Funding for health is the public purse. Funding for social care is means tested. "
Not too sure it still exists but there was a rule a few years back that if you went to a care home direct from the hospital. It was not means tested... |
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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago
Masked and Distant |
If they are fit to be discharged and covid negative then they should be discharged.
Dont think a hospital, that WILL contain vivid positive patients can be classed "the best place" for anyone who is covid negative.
These "hospitals" that were built were never fully staffed as far as I know and were just massive critical care wards, again not the best place for anyone who does not need critical care.
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money. "
If they are discharged to care homes they aren't left to die unless the homes aren't looking after them  Its a shit situation all round & the elderly are copping the shit end of the stick.  |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
If they are discharged to care homes they aren't left to die unless the homes aren't looking after them Its a shit situation all round & the elderly are copping the shit end of the stick. "
Yes and this makes me sad. I would be a crap carer if i did not care.x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you are well enough to be discharged from hospital then you should be. Why should the hospitals keep patients that can be discharged? It makes no difference that they aren't overrun right now they will still need the beds for other patients in other parts.
Don't mean to sound harsh but they are hospitals not hospices, hotels or care homes. "
Totally agree  |
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By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
Open your eyes
People get discharged when their still at risk
Dr's say medical fit doesn't mean your health just means not about die so kick them out
Been going on for years
How many people get dischsrged and back in hospital within a week!!!!
Open your eyes |
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By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
If they are discharged to care homes they aren't left to die unless the homes aren't looking after them Its a shit situation all round & the elderly are copping the shit end of the stick.
Yes and this makes me sad. I would be a crap carer if i did not care.x"
Bluebell you care wish other people weren't as selfish.
REMBER ALL YOU WILL BE OLD ONE DAY TO |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
If they are discharged to care homes they aren't left to die unless the homes aren't looking after them Its a shit situation all round & the elderly are copping the shit end of the stick.
Yes and this makes me sad. I would be a crap carer if i did not care.x
Bluebell you care wish other people weren't as selfish.
REMBER ALL YOU WILL BE OLD ONE DAY TO"
I know and sorry to rant but very stressful and upsetting times at the moment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If someone is not ill enough to be requiring medical care in hospital then yes, they should be found a safe placement in either residential or nursing care.
This is always how it has worked, regardless of Covid.
I would far rather see my relatives in suitable care where they can settle than in a hospital setting.
Horrendous mistakes were made at the beginning and during Covid at its worst. Lessons have been learned thank god and patients now need to be Covid free before discharge from hospital.
A home manager is quite within their rights to ask for two negative tests before they accept a client, including an antibody test. It’s their duty of care to protect both residents and staff.
Hospital is not the right place for the elderly unless they are ill.
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
If they are discharged to care homes they aren't left to die unless the homes aren't looking after them Its a shit situation all round & the elderly are copping the shit end of the stick.
Yes and this makes me sad. I would be a crap carer if i did not care.x
Bluebell you care wish other people weren't as selfish.
REMBER ALL YOU WILL BE OLD ONE DAY TO
I know and sorry to rant but very stressful and upsetting times at the moment."
I am yet to meet any care worker who doesn't care about the people they care for or any particular demographic. You're damned if you do & damned if you don't. I hope these folk aren't looking at this mess & thinking nobody wants them x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People are still getting moved from hospitals to care homes. The hospitals now are not over run so why not leave them there longer?. Carehomes are just a money making business but putting others at risk.
"
I think you raise a really good point, they are returned to the care system when they are judged as step down, eg recovering.
In Manchester we had a period where they went to the NW nightingale and actually it made a lot of sense. It undoubtedly aids in keeping infection down but also it should be appreciated that whilst in step down a lot of patients may also be in end of life management. A clinical setting obviously has a huge advantage in these cases over a care home.
The answer is bed space and budget, it’s not a directive which prioritises the patient sadly. You’re right that Hospitals aren’t over run but they are trying to return spaces that have dedicated to COVID-19 back to other services. The reality is the original hospital space to deal with infections such as COVID-19 is still above capacity and borrowing beds and floor space from other areas. |
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"If you are well enough to be discharged from hospital then you should be. Why should the hospitals keep patients that can be discharged? It makes no difference that they aren't overrun right now they will still need the beds for other patients in other parts.
Don't mean to sound harsh but they are hospitals not hospices, hotels or care homes.
I would usually agree but not in these present times. Our care home has remained virus free and i fear our clients are now being put at risk.
Do they test patients before shipping them out? I know my neighbours care home refuse to take any that have tested positive.
One negative test allows them into our care home. I feel this is still a risk."
It is usual for hospitals to move patients into care homes,there were more risks in the earlier days of lockdown due to lack of testing,a rush to clear hospital beds,no procedures put in place at the time for care homes.
Now things are different and much better handled
At our home nobody is discharged to us till a negative test,
(yes they have tried to send patients without a negative test or a positive,so our care home refuses till a negative test)
Once they arrive they are put straight on barrier nursing/isolation
Then they are given another test in house,when negative, isolation and barrier nursing is removed.
Going forward all residents have a monthly test,if at any time any residents show any symptoms they get tested/isolation/barrier nursing straight away till a negative result
Also our staff all have mandatory testing weekly(which is better than what the nhs get now)
The hospital discharges patients to their own home/care homes still has to go on,its part of the circle of life.Care homes need beds filled,just as hospitals need to clear beds
I can understand your concerned,I have felt the same in the past,now I feel confident my care home is looking after the safety of all staff and residents
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By *yn drwgMan
over a year ago
Camarthen |
"Because if you stay in hospital your bed blocking ...
Well they should use the new hospitals they built that have lay empty from day one."
These places need to be sterile and ready for use putting a few patients in there doesn't make sense for staff or hygiene. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because if you stay in hospital your bed blocking ...
Well they should use the new hospitals they built that have lay empty from day one.
These places need to be sterile and ready for use putting a few patients in there doesn't make sense for staff or hygiene."
There’s a misunderstanding about the Nightingale’s. Apart from the NW all others where set up as an extension to ICU offering ventilation and CPAP to hundreds of beds.
The issue was always the specialists required to run them. London had the best recruitment and had at its peak enough consultants to run 10 of 700 ventilated beds... they treated 44? Patients before they where closed not because the London trusts didn’t need help but because they couldn’t offer it due to staff shortfalls.
Birmingham and Harrogate couldn’t create a team, both closed without a single admission. As mentioned previously Manchester ran as a step down facility. We lacked the staff to run at capacity but we did have around 500 patients over 4 months prior to hibernation. Our capacity on paper was 700 beds but we ran out of staff with 110 patients in the GMEX. Again our reason for closure was the need of our senior clinical staff to return to their original services for restart.
I would be highly surprised if the Nightingale’s re-opened even in a severe second wave. If they did I am sure they would have to adapt to a step down model across the country. All the lessons from the first wave suggest they would perhaps need to draft in the RAMC to help staff them as I think the hope of doctors volunteering/coming out of retirement etc was vastly overestimated. |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution."
But it isn't the safest all round option. Had the two elderly family members I have direct knowledge of been left in hospital, they would not have been cared for as well as they have been. They are undoubtedly safer and better cared for where they are. As for other elderly... I have no direct knowledge but I do know hospitals are not well staffed or equipped to provide longterm quality care to patients who are fit for discharge. I would imagine many care homes are touting around for business now too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
But it isn't the safest all round option. Had the two elderly family members I have direct knowledge of been left in hospital, they would not have been cared for as well as they have been. They are undoubtedly safer and better cared for where they are. As for other elderly... I have no direct knowledge but I do know hospitals are not well staffed or equipped to provide longterm quality care to patients who are fit for discharge. I would imagine many care homes are touting around for business now too. "
Have to agree, we ended up with a specialist ward for dementia patients with clinical specialists supporting them.
Prior to this we had serious concerns regarding both the impact on other patients and a lack of specialist care for those with dementia issues whilst space was shared. |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
But it isn't the safest all round option. Had the two elderly family members I have direct knowledge of been left in hospital, they would not have been cared for as well as they have been. They are undoubtedly safer and better cared for where they are. As for other elderly... I have no direct knowledge but I do know hospitals are not well staffed or equipped to provide longterm quality care to patients who are fit for discharge. I would imagine many care homes are touting around for business now too. "
We were told our 2 empty beds would renain empty so was shocked to be told last night they are getting filled on Tuesday. New clients will be loved and cared for like the others but we would not be human if we felt no fear. Any other time would be fine but we panic as these times are uncertain. |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution."
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access. |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access. "
So why did they build these new hospitals to lie empty? |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access.
So why did they build these new hospitals to lie empty?"
And why build them if they didn't have the staff to man them? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access.
So why did they build these new hospitals to lie empty?
And why build them if they didn't have the staff to man them?"
They had plenty of staff to man them, loads of ex and retired nhs staff and newly qualified ones joined up and lots of current NHS who now do non medical stuff were going to be redeployed |
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access.
So why did they build these new hospitals to lie empty?
And why build them if they didn't have the staff to man them?"
They did. They had all the volunteers, the retired Drs and nurses and all the student nurses fresh out of 3yr training. All on standby but all not needed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access.
So why did they build these new hospitals to lie empty?
And why build them if they didn't have the staff to man them?"
To answer this and the previous question I think the building was in part a grand political gesture, almost if China can do it, we can do it too as well as giving extra space to the system obviously.
In terms of staff... remember these where built in 7 days, they where rushed, planning was done on the fly and the reality is whoever calculated staffing massively underestimated the needs and response.
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access.
So why did they build these new hospitals to lie empty?
And why build them if they didn't have the staff to man them?
They had plenty of staff to man them, loads of ex and retired nhs staff and newly qualified ones joined up and lots of current NHS who now do non medical stuff were going to be redeployed"
The poster above who seems to know what they are talking about said they lack the staff to man them? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution."
They could go to care homes and have a two isolation period.
Hospitals are to be used for acute illnesses NOT social care. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People are still getting moved from hospitals to care homes. The hospitals now are not over run so why not leave them there longer?. Carehomes are just a money making business but putting others at risk.
Because if they no longer need hospital care, they have to go "home". Funding for health is the public purse. Funding for social care is means tested.
Not too sure it still exists but there was a rule a few years back that if you went to a care home direct from the hospital. It was not means tested..."
Some people get funding for continued health care. In other words they are not going to improve health wise so do not need to be in hospital, but still require nursing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Open your eyes
People get discharged when their still at risk
Dr's say medical fit doesn't mean your health just means not about die so kick them out
Been going on for years
How many people get dischsrged and back in hospital within a week!!!!
Open your eyes"
A good hospital (ie with good staff) will not discharge purely on a doctor's "medically fit" to be discharged. Nowadays that means the patient no longer needs a doctor's input. They may still require other professionals' input. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access.
So why did they build these new hospitals to lie empty?
And why build them if they didn't have the staff to man them?"
I assume that's where army medics would come in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Because bed blocking will always be a priority rightly or wrongly.
And because leaving a hospital full of fit for discharge covid patients will not do the NHS any favours. As shit as it is, in a no win situation I'd rather have the NHS in the stronger position
And leave the elderly to die?. Wht did they build these hospitals to lay empty?. Why did they get 1000's of volunteers to sign up and never be used?. It is a very sad world we live in and sadly always boils down to money.
The hospitals are for use of needed for the 2nd wave to accommodate covid patients. If they are used for care patients it defeats the purpose and they will be criticised for that. Surely they should go to care to be looked after by carers.
The 2nd wave has not hit yet. I feel they should remain in hospital until it does as it is the safest all round solution.
And when the hospitals are full due to noone being discharged then what?
The cost implication is roughly between 1500 to 1900 per person a day in a hospital. Whether its a nightingale hospital or "standard" hospital.
Yes it is sad that health comes down to money. But its a fact if life that pharmaceutical company's charge so does the energy suppliers and people need a wage. The nhs is only "free" at the point of access.
So why did they build these new hospitals to lie empty?
And why build them if they didn't have the staff to man them?
They did. They had all the volunteers, the retired Drs and nurses and all the student nurses fresh out of 3yr training. All on standby but all not needed."
Actually they used students in their 3rd year. Some were second year (source: nursing times). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And why build them if they didn't have the staff to man them?
They did. They had all the volunteers, the retired Drs and nurses and all the student nurses fresh out of 3yr training. All on standby but all not needed."
The Nightingale’s issues are well documented in the BMJ and across the wider medical press. The issue was specialists, not numbers.
We had all sorts filling the gaps in Manchester; cabin crew with their decent medical training stepped in as health care assistants, nursing staff contained limited retired personnel and numerous ‘advanced’ students including people from a dental background. Our handful of doctors where locums, final year students and 1 retired medic.
Patient carer ratios need to be maintained, during this pandemic, criteria has been loosened but for an ICU environment where patients are ventilated or are in CPAP you need a lot of specialists wether that be ICU Constants, Anaesthetists to manage the patients comma or surgical staff to place people into and respond to emergencies whilst ventilated. It’s a large team of specialist skills and it can’t be replaced with volunteers or junior staff sadly.
London is the scapegoat because of the numbers involved, they managed to staff a 1/3rd of a 30 bed ward with ICU provision. That left 690 beds unable to be used for critical patients. That’s before the thousands of beds never touched for the less serious.
The model was always dependent on gaining specialists from the regions trusts to cover shifts on their days off. The reality was however any consultant on ICU at the height of the pandemic was cranking out 80 weeks within their own hospitals, they had no ability to respond.
The same issues plagued all the Nightingale’s, even as a simplified medical offering Manchester struggled. As mentioned before we lacked the doctors to extend past 120 patients at a time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I assume that's where army medics would come in. "
The RAMC is actually quite a small organisation, for obvious reasons they are also geared up for trauma surgery etc so again lack the specialisms.
I know in a worst case scenario they would have manned 100 of our 750 beds, I believe in the Excel they where earmarked for 500. They didn’t and still don’t have the numbers to run any of the hospitals independently. |
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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago
Plymouth |
I work in care (albeit not an actual care home as such). The rules are as far as weve been told.
They must have a negative covid test 24 hours (max) before discharge.
They then must isolate on arrival for 72 hours and our advice is they are retested.
Staff have to now wear masks all the time except for breaks. And are being tested weekly for covid.
In my honest opinion people with a positive covid result should not be discharged if they require any care needs from community carers or a care home. |
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"I work in care (albeit not an actual care home as such). The rules are as far as weve been told.
They must have a negative covid test 24 hours (max) before discharge.
They then must isolate on arrival for 72 hours and our advice is they are retested.
Staff have to now wear masks all the time except for breaks. And are being tested weekly for covid.
In my honest opinion people with a positive covid result should not be discharged if they require any care needs from community carers or a care home."
Isolating our clients would never work. They all wander and the only way to keep them in their rooms would be too lock the door which is a no go. |
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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago
Plymouth |
"I work in care (albeit not an actual care home as such). The rules are as far as weve been told.
They must have a negative covid test 24 hours (max) before discharge.
They then must isolate on arrival for 72 hours and our advice is they are retested.
Staff have to now wear masks all the time except for breaks. And are being tested weekly for covid.
In my honest opinion people with a positive covid result should not be discharged if they require any care needs from community carers or a care home.
Isolating our clients would never work. They all wander and the only way to keep them in their rooms would be too lock the door which is a no go."
In this case I think they suggest cohorting people. And protecting the shielded on a separate floor. If possible if people cannot isolate a mask should be worn but that's again going to be easier said than done.
I work in respite with LD and weve had to be shut since march. Because they cant understand social distancing, too many people coming from different places, we cant expect people to spend the whole time in their room and for someone with a learning disability a covid test is going to be a lot more difficult and traumatic. However that means some people have been doing 24/7 care with no support for 15 or so weeks maybe longer. Often elderly parents.
Our hospital down here (the one yes only major hospital in the whole county) has been pushing discharge. However, it's been difficult because community care has been difficult to get. They were using hotels for discharge lounge but now they have reopened that's not an option. |
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"I work in care (albeit not an actual care home as such). The rules are as far as weve been told.
They must have a negative covid test 24 hours (max) before discharge.
They then must isolate on arrival for 72 hours and our advice is they are retested.
Staff have to now wear masks all the time except for breaks. And are being tested weekly for covid.
In my honest opinion people with a positive covid result should not be discharged if they require any care needs from community carers or a care home.
Isolating our clients would never work. They all wander and the only way to keep them in their rooms would be too lock the door which is a no go.
In this case I think they suggest cohorting people. And protecting the shielded on a separate floor. If possible if people cannot isolate a mask should be worn but that's again going to be easier said than done.
I work in respite with LD and weve had to be shut since march. Because they cant understand social distancing, too many people coming from different places, we cant expect people to spend the whole time in their room and for someone with a learning disability a covid test is going to be a lot more difficult and traumatic. However that means some people have been doing 24/7 care with no support for 15 or so weeks maybe longer. Often elderly parents.
Our hospital down here (the one yes only major hospital in the whole county) has been pushing discharge. However, it's been difficult because community care has been difficult to get. They were using hotels for discharge lounge but now they have reopened that's not an option."
I work with dementia and our unit is on one floor. Very stressful and difficult times to which there is no easy solution. |
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By *wosWoman
over a year ago
east london |
"Because if you stay in hospital your bed blocking ...
Well they should use the new hospitals they built that have lay empty from day one."
They're not hospitals...they're warehouses for people on ventilation... bet they got absolutely no facilities for patients .. no need for chairs by the bed ,tvs or anything.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because if you stay in hospital your bed blocking ...
Well they should use the new hospitals they built that have lay empty from day one.
They're not hospitals...they're warehouses for people on ventilation... bet they got absolutely no facilities for patients .. no need for chairs by the bed ,tvs or anything.. "
In fairness... the beds all got a chair and a lockbox on it but you’re right, looking up at the iron girder roof of an old railway depot was not the ideal environment.
I think as others have said the cost is probably the biggest killer. When you consider each London patient equates to £1.8mil in building costs before you add in staff and materials costs it’s horrific. Even the NW worked out at £90k ea.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not being discharged before having a negative test.
Hoslitals are full of sick people....with all kinds if conditions.
10x more likely to pick up an infection of some kind or other in hospital than out.
Where would you rather be if you are well? |
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