FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Looking for meets
Looking for meets
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What's the Fab view now on people looking for meets? I'm worried sick at seeing the brazen statuses and those unsubtle hints that folk (mostly guys) are out on the prowl... "driving through ..", "out and about" etc. This place is gonna be riddled with covid when social distancing is lifted.
Why cant people be patient and keep the scene safe for the wider swinging community to return to? I don't take risks with "safe sex" but there's no avoiding covid on the scene.
No accusations of paranoia please, I've a friend (asymptomatic) who gave it to his daughter and she's suffered brain damage. I'm shocked at how casually people are taking such risks. |
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"What's the Fab view now on people looking for meets? I'm worried sick at seeing the brazen statuses and those unsubtle hints that folk (mostly guys) are out on the prowl... "driving through ..", "out and about" etc. This place is gonna be riddled with covid when social distancing is lifted.
Why cant people be patient and keep the scene safe for the wider swinging community to return to? I don't take risks with "safe sex" but there's no avoiding covid on the scene.
No accusations of paranoia please, I've a friend (asymptomatic) who gave it to his daughter and she's suffered brain damage. I'm shocked at how casually people are taking such risks."
This. I'm so glad someone has asked this question. We are wondering what fabs official view is on meeting is now. The updates page around the Midlands area is swamped with people asking for meets |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"What's the Fab view now on people looking for meets? I'm worried sick at seeing the brazen statuses and those unsubtle hints that folk (mostly guys) are out on the prowl... "driving through ..", "out and about" etc. This place is gonna be riddled with covid when social distancing is lifted.
Why cant people be patient and keep the scene safe for the wider swinging community to return to? I don't take risks with "safe sex" but there's no avoiding covid on the scene.
No accusations of paranoia please, I've a friend (asymptomatic) who gave it to his daughter and she's suffered brain damage. I'm shocked at how casually people are taking such risks."
People will do what they want to do simple as that,the longer this goes on the more people will be having casual sex it is human instinct.Sex did not stop with aids did it?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sex has carried on throughput the centuries through all kinds of pestilence.. Its human nature.. Most human beings cannot social distance for long periods particularly if sexually active.. We are programmed to mate.. Or to watch alpha males with our females if you're a cuck 
D |
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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago
Northampton Somewhere |
Fab haven't opened up the meets section so there's that answer.
I see a lot of updates to, it's very worrying.
There's a guy I really fancy in my area next week, normally I would of met him but I'm not ready for that yet. It's still too risky for me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sooner or later life has got to move on. You can’t eradicate COVID-19, just like flu and even the bubonic plague which has made a come back. Anyone who believes lock down is the solution needs to do more research. It simply slows the spread, allowing those who get it to get the best treatment. Eventually we will build up a bit of immunity, most will get little or no symptoms - just like the flu. We can’t go round in a bubble for the rest of our lives. If people are meeting now, they are doing no more harm then those who broke the original lockdown restrictions, and they are needed to. If it isn’t continued to be spread in small controllable numbers, it will sneak up on us and have a big peak when least expected. We personally aren’t meeting - yet - but can understand why people are... particularly if they are single. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Fab haven't opened up the meets section so there's that answer.
I see a lot of updates to, it's very worrying.
There's a guy I really fancy in my area next week, normally I would of met him but I'm not ready for that yet. It's still too risky for me. "
Fab can only advise and give its personal view,it has that right but it is not law.
I do not meet because I do not feel it is a good idea nothing to do with fab.
I do agree with them but do not condemn others I hope they are all ok whatever they do |
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Folks weren't supposed to go on mass gatherings statue fighting and riots or celebrate football results, does anyone honestly think folks aren't meeting at their homes, and now hotels, when was the last time you heard anyone mention bubbles, lol,  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Folks weren't supposed to go on mass gatherings statue fighting and riots or celebrate football results, does anyone honestly think folks aren't meeting at their homes, and now hotels, when was the last time you heard anyone mention bubbles, lol, "
West Ham fans |
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constantly being asked for meets but when I refuse i am amazed at the various responses such as "its all finished now" and "I've been tested negative so I'm completely safe" through to " its not real and you need to wake up and see what is really happening ". My bigger concern is that these people are actually out there believing this stuff and endangering the general public. |
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"People will do what they want to do simple as that,the longer this goes on the more people will be having casual sex it is human instinct.Sex did not stop with aids did it?
"
I agree, but youre missing my point. The sexual transmission of Aids was (mostly) avoidable once it was known about so people didn't have to stop having sex, even with strangers. Covid is unavoidable in intimate settings. It's the fact that people WANT to do it that gets me, knowing the risk theyre taking, inc possibly killing their loved ones. Horny??? I'd go limp at the prospect!  |
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By *ustme1820Woman
over a year ago
Southcoast Gosport |
I’ve had two messages since logging on this morning asking for sex meets now. One of these messages was from a married man with a full hotel address to go and join him now. Just incredulous how stupid some people are  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I feel it's pretty much down to personal choice now.
If people want to meet, they will.
The fact that the pubs/restaurants and hotels are open, means people are meeting.
You probably stand more chance of catching C-19 in one of those places after a few beers than actually having a meet, especially if the people you're meeting are friends and you know what they've been doing.
Peoples social distancing awareness tends to diminish after a few beers.
At the end of the day..... unless your still shielding, the fact your going out the house, increases your chances of catching the virus. |
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"Fab haven't opened up the meets section so there's that answer.
I see a lot of updates to, it's very worrying.
There's a guy I really fancy in my area next week, normally I would of met him but I'm not ready for that yet. It's still too risky for me. Fab can only advise and give its personal view,it has that right but it is not law.
I do not meet because I do not feel it is a good idea nothing to do with fab.
I do agree with them but do not condemn others I hope they are all ok whatever they do"
I sure hope they're okay too but I worry for those they come into contact with. Fab is actively enabling meets, knowing what is going on, no matter what the policy states, in a similar way to clubs who "turn a blind eye" to remain in business.
I'm clearly no prude, being on here, but increasingly feel myself pulling away. Swinging and casual sex can have moral and ethical standards too but those partners seem thin on the ground now. People are moving from my hotlist to block list when I notice that theyre meeting. People I know with young children at home. It seriously troubles me. |
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"I’ve had two messages since logging on this morning asking for sex meets now. One of these messages was from a married man with a full hotel address to go and join him now. Just incredulous how stupid some people are "
Yeah, it's constant. Us single guys are bombarded by those guys too. Heartbreaking when there's a family involved. |
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"People will do what they want to do simple as that,the longer this goes on the more people will be having casual sex it is human instinct.Sex did not stop with aids did it?
I agree, but youre missing my point. The sexual transmission of Aids was (mostly) avoidable once it was known about so people didn't have to stop having sex, even with strangers. Covid is unavoidable in intimate settings. It's the fact that people WANT to do it that gets me, knowing the risk theyre taking, inc possibly killing their loved ones. Horny??? I'd go limp at the prospect! "
You can't compare Aids to Covid.
People could put there loved ones at risk simply by going shopping, out for a meal or out for a protest.
The only thing you can do in this situation is continue to protect yourself.
|
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"Fab haven't opened up the meets section so there's that answer.
I see a lot of updates to, it's very worrying.
There's a guy I really fancy in my area next week, normally I would of met him but I'm not ready for that yet. It's still too risky for me. Fab can only advise and give its personal view,it has that right but it is not law.
I do not meet because I do not feel it is a good idea nothing to do with fab.
I do agree with them but do not condemn others I hope they are all ok whatever they do
I sure hope they're okay too but I worry for those they come into contact with. Fab is actively enabling meets, knowing what is going on, no matter what the policy states, in a similar way to clubs who "turn a blind eye" to remain in business.
I'm clearly no prude, being on here, but increasingly feel myself pulling away. Swinging and casual sex can have moral and ethical standards too but those partners seem thin on the ground now. People are moving from my hotlist to block list when I notice that theyre meeting. People I know with young children at home. It seriously troubles me. "
Fab has no authority over anyone.
They are currently following the guidlines set by the goverment.
Clubs are not turning a blind eye, they are operating under the guidance set guess what the government.
Unless you have been to these clubs and witnessed all this full contact play, the turning a blind eye comment is just personal assumption.
Unfortunately there will be absolutely nothing you can do except to protect yourself.
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"Clubs are not turning a blind eye, they are operating under the guidance set guess what the government.
Unless you have been to these clubs and witnessed all this full contact play, the turning a blind eye comment is just personal assumption.
Unfortunately there will be absolutely nothing you can do except to protect yourself.
"
No, not personal assumption, it's been discussed by others on here. I assume that they have no reason to be making it up. Hopefully the majority of clubs are genuinely trying their best. |
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"People will do what they want to do simple as that,the longer this goes on the more people will be having casual sex it is human instinct.Sex did not stop with aids did it?
I agree, but youre missing my point. The sexual transmission of Aids was (mostly) avoidable once it was known about so people didn't have to stop having sex, even with strangers. Covid is unavoidable in intimate settings. It's the fact that people WANT to do it that gets me, knowing the risk theyre taking, inc possibly killing their loved ones. Horny??? I'd go limp at the prospect!
You can't compare Aids to Covid.
People could put there loved ones at risk simply by going shopping, out for a meal or out for a protest.
The only thing you can do in this situation is continue to protect yourself.
"
This. It’s just that when it is sex we start to make these judgements. Even though there’s risks involved in so many things, we tend to have this idea that it is unacceptable when sex is involved. Add orgasms and suddenly people are stupid and selfish
We know from the HIV crisis that people won’t stop having sex, and demonising people just drives them underground and can make things more risky. Yes once they knew how HIV is transmitted it was avoidable but this took a while and actually between 1984 and 1986, for 2 whole years, it was thought it might be transmitted through saliva
That said, meeting definitely isn’t on my radar at the moment |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The virus isn't going anywhere so now it's about managing the risk. For me at this point the mental health effects of having no sex or human contact need to be balanced with the risk of catching covid. So I would meet but would do a lot of vetting beforehand and do it fairly infrequently. However I am lucky in that I can self isolate quite easily.
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"Clubs are not turning a blind eye, they are operating under the guidance set guess what the government.
Unless you have been to these clubs and witnessed all this full contact play, the turning a blind eye comment is just personal assumption.
Unfortunately there will be absolutely nothing you can do except to protect yourself.
No, not personal assumption, it's been discussed by others on here. I assume that they have no reason to be making it up. Hopefully the majority of clubs are genuinely trying their best."
If you believe everything that is posted on here from random swinger profiles, thats your call. |
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"People will do what they want to do simple as that,the longer this goes on the more people will be having casual sex it is human instinct.Sex did not stop with aids did it?
I agree, but youre missing my point. The sexual transmission of Aids was (mostly) avoidable once it was known about so people didn't have to stop having sex, even with strangers. Covid is unavoidable in intimate settings. It's the fact that people WANT to do it that gets me, knowing the risk theyre taking, inc possibly killing their loved ones. Horny??? I'd go limp at the prospect!
You can't compare Aids to Covid.
People could put there loved ones at risk simply by going shopping, out for a meal or out for a protest.
The only thing you can do in this situation is continue to protect yourself.
This. It’s just that when it is sex we start to make these judgements. Even though there’s risks involved in so many things, we tend to have this idea that it is unacceptable when sex is involved. Add orgasms and suddenly people are stupid and selfish
We know from the HIV crisis that people won’t stop having sex, and demonising people just drives them underground and can make things more risky. Yes once they knew how HIV is transmitted it was avoidable but this took a while and actually between 1984 and 1986, for 2 whole years, it was thought it might be transmitted through saliva
That said, meeting definitely isn’t on my radar at the moment "
Its weird you say that, as years ago I was under the usumption that the virus was transmitted by saliva.
I actually got schooled at a rave back in the 90s by the local council who had a stand promoting drug and sexual health.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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WHAT F’ing risk is there?!! Honestly the world has got it all all wrong and this will go down as the biggest fuck up of the century. If you really care about your health, like actually care, stop eating macdonalds, lattes, donuts, alcohol and lines off the back of Susan’s toilet cistern. There’s more risk you sitting on your ever expanding arses and that will cause SIGNIFICANT DRAIN ON NHS RESOURCES.
If you don’t like my opinion, block me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I feel it's pretty much down to personal choice now.
If people want to meet, they will.
The fact that the pubs/restaurants and hotels are open, means people are meeting.
You probably stand more chance of catching C-19 in one of those places after a few beers than actually having a meet, especially if the people you're meeting are friends and you know what they've been doing.
Peoples social distancing awareness tends to diminish after a few beers.
At the end of the day..... unless your still shielding, the fact your going out the house, increases your chances of catching the virus. "
 |
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I think lockdown pulled in a range of people here who skew the visible feel for how we are as a group. Disproportionately higher numbers of people expecting easy fast sex. We now get to view others whilst having our perceptions skewed by greatly visible people, mostly men, wanting sex meets.
With infection levels lower than at the height of the crisis, I'm guessing that won't have huge risks. This is likely as the single men doing this are never particularly successful, for starters.
Stopping people from having sex has probably never been successful. It can suppress things for a white but we've probably got to just accept that some social meets will turn out to be sexual. At least people who catch the virus get rid of it fairly quickly |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
judging from the local updates from my area it seems to be cpls more than anyone else looking for meets.reading some of the statuses people think there cryptic statuses will through people of the scent lol |
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By *eah BabyCouple
over a year ago
Cheshire, Windermere ,Cumbria |
We had more guys message us last night than in a long time all looking to meet, not sure why as no new pics or posts and we don’t have the meeting single guy button ticked but we ended up blocking two which is very rare for us to do. We have had a few couples asking to meet but they seem to take us saying no as we are not currently meeting a whole lot better than the guys.
I’m quite surprised by how many people have verifications within the last few weeks to be honest, looks like normality as returned for a lot of Fab users. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
peeps are defo neeting and have been throughout.only thing id say about the veris is i have given two in the last month to people who have rejoined the site who i have met previously.not saying all new veris are that bit some will be |
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"I feel it's pretty much down to personal choice now.
If people want to meet, they will.
The fact that the pubs/restaurants and hotels are open, means people are meeting.
You probably stand more chance of catching C-19 in one of those places after a few beers than actually having a meet, especially if the people you're meeting are friends and you know what they've been doing.
Peoples social distancing awareness tends to diminish after a few beers.
At the end of the day..... unless your still shielding, the fact your going out the house, increases your chances of catching the virus.
"
Yes, agree with all that. I'm unlikely to be in pubs or restaurants for a good while, unless quiet during daytime. I can't imagine the evening atmosphere would be much fun at the moment. |
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Everything is back to before apart from live events,and nite clubs, the way the land lies now, there are more folks dying from cancer and other stuff than from covid.and that's been the case for weeks now, we now have information, tools and therapeutics to control covid, so the covid fearmongering media and so called experts need to pipe down, I'm fully optimistic for full November normal...... |
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By *willfindyouWoman
over a year ago
Not looking to meet new peeps. |
"constantly being asked for meets but when I refuse i am amazed at the various responses such as "its all finished now" and "I've been tested negative so I'm completely safe" through to " its not real and you need to wake up and see what is really happening ". My bigger concern is that these people are actually out there believing this stuff and endangering the general public."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They've had 5 months of my life, no more. Stay home in your masks if that's what you want, no more for me sorry. I'm out and about living my life and i have been since 4th July. |
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By *SAchickWoman
over a year ago
Hillside desolate |
I'll not be meeting anyone until after the school holidays anyway, but I think after that I'll feel comfortable to meet one or two fab friends again.
Feel free to frown upon me at your leisure |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Life is very short. Go for it if you feel right about meeting. If you don't then don't. We are still not meeting but that's more about the fact we are a couple of old wrinklies and feel we have done our bit. Good luck with your meets.x |
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By *adcowWoman
over a year ago
kirkcaldy |
"What's the Fab view now on people looking for meets? I'm worried sick at seeing the brazen statuses and those unsubtle hints that folk (mostly guys) are out on the prowl... "driving through ..", "out and about" etc. This place is gonna be riddled with covid when social distancing is lifted.
Why cant people be patient and keep the scene safe for the wider swinging community to return to? I don't take risks with "safe sex" but there's no avoiding covid on the scene.
No accusations of paranoia please, I've a friend (asymptomatic) who gave it to his daughter and she's suffered brain damage. I'm shocked at how casually people are taking such risks."
My block list has grown substantially as I won't meet anyone who has flaunted the rules about no physical touching of others outside of household. If I am not allowed to cuddle my asthmatic daughter or dad who has cancer I would never meet for sex with a stranger who would so blatantly put my family and others at risk. |
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"What's the Fab view now on people looking for meets? I'm worried sick at seeing the brazen statuses and those unsubtle hints that folk (mostly guys) are out on the prowl... "driving through ..", "out and about" etc. This place is gonna be riddled with covid when social distancing is lifted.
Why cant people be patient and keep the scene safe for the wider swinging community to return to? I don't take risks with "safe sex" but there's no avoiding covid on the scene.
No accusations of paranoia please, I've a friend (asymptomatic) who gave it to his daughter and she's suffered brain damage. I'm shocked at how casually people are taking such risks.
This. I'm so glad someone has asked this question. We are wondering what fabs official view is on meeting is now. The updates page around the Midlands area is swamped with people asking for meets "
https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/feedback/1026660 |
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By *3xymamaWoman
over a year ago
Uptown Top Ranking |
"The virus isn't going anywhere so now it's about managing the risk. For me at this point the mental health effects of having no sex or human contact need to be balanced with the risk of catching covid. So I would meet but would do a lot of vetting beforehand and do it fairly infrequently. However I am lucky in that I can self isolate quite easily.
"
Some really good points here. I feel it is about managing the risk. It's also about personal choice. I'm not meeting at the moment but I'm not judging anyone else either as I don't know their circumstances |
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By *iger4uWoman
over a year ago
In my happy place |
"So many requests to meet and ive told each person no.
Why would you meet a random, given anyone can be asymptomatic.
Or you can think of it as 99.97% of the population don't have covid"
No, i value my own and families health.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Numerous requests to meet, mainly single desperate guys, it just ain't going to happen, statistics, right or wrong, who knows, it's guesswork BUT, it's killing people or having an adverse effect on the quality of lives through serious long term illness. It may not effect the younger single man but do they have mums, dads, elderly relatives... just a thought.
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"Get tested for Covid19
Wait for the results
If all clear
Show certified letters
And that’s only be valid at the time of testing will it Not "
Blimey that sounds like a sti porn slot,I see it on Twitter all the time 'I'm certed ready to do content' lol
I always get a text and my work gets the email,no certificates
Yes the covid test is only valid at the time of testing,however It gives reassurance if both are tested before a meet,just like it reassures me to know guys I see have regular sti tests
After 4 months celibate,I decided to go into a bubble with a fb, I use to see pre-covid,I have been waiting very patiently,with no end in sight
So for me the only way out is to bubble up so im within the rules.
I have mandatory weekly covid tests at work so that's covered, and I'm leaving 14 days between meets.I'm just not meeting any new guys so have hidden my profile now,so I can just enjoy my bubble 
And off course still stalk the forums |
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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago
harrow |
Ok here is my thought process
I know people that are meeting through the scene. If it’s as say a month or 6 weeks ago I would have frowned a bit but I think know I am a bit more relaxed
I am not meeting anyone. I live with family (parents), and I can’t accommodate.
So unless I go to a meet it’s unlikely. A lot of my swinging friends are in the north west as I have no reason to go due to no clubs and no football. It’s a long way to travel and book a hotel.
So for me I will probably hold off for a few weeks at. Least - May meet socially sometime in late August
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Compare with
28,113 STIs were diagnosed among 45 to 64-year-olds in 2015."
The overwhelming majority of which would have been chlamydia
Easily treated by a one-off dose of 1000mg of azithromycin
If untreated the only thing chlamydia does is possibly to make you sterile - which for most of the 45-64 years olds wouldn't be much of a problem. More serious if you are young and wanting to have children of course. |
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"Compare with
28,113 STIs were diagnosed among 45 to 64-year-olds in 2015.
The overwhelming majority of which would have been chlamydia
Easily treated by a one-off dose of 1000mg of azithromycin
If untreated the only thing chlamydia does is possibly to make you sterile - which for most of the 45-64 years olds wouldn't be much of a problem. More serious if you are young and wanting to have children of course."
And for coronavirus the majority get a cough and a high temperature sorted with paracetamol ...
Your point is ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They've had 5 months of my life, no more. Stay home in your masks if that's what you want, no more for me sorry. I'm out and about living my life and i have been since 4th July.
Enjoy Yr sausage fest as many couples and fems ain’t meeting yet "
Couldn't be further from the truth. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was just looking to see if anyone had started a thread about this because I was thinking of doing the same!
The amount of people who seem to think intimate meets are safe because lockdown measures has been eased is worrying. I think there are a fair few woman and couples posting these status updates too.
I've been told to shield and I have mentioned this to a couple of people who have asked for physical meets. I'm likely going to need to social distance a lot longer than people who aren't shielding.
One person who I told this to and told them I live with family said he would still meet.
People don't realise how dangerous it can be if you catch the virus. Clearly they care more about getting their leg over than the wellbeing of others.
I'm frustrated but I really don't want to take risks that could make myself or my family seriously unwell. I'm not surprised though.
Rant over... |
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"constantly being asked for meets but when I refuse i am amazed at the various responses such as "its all finished now" and "I've been tested negative so I'm completely safe" through to " its not real and you need to wake up and see what is really happening ". My bigger concern is that these people are actually out there believing this stuff and endangering the general public."
Spot on. We all want things to get going again - roll on the reopening of Chams! - but let's not kid ourselves about where things are right now |
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By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
"WHAT F’ing risk is there?!! Honestly the world has got it all all wrong and this will go down as the biggest fuck up of the century. If you really care about your health, like actually care, stop eating macdonalds, lattes, donuts, alcohol and lines off the back of Susan’s toilet cistern. There’s more risk you sitting on your ever expanding arses and that will cause SIGNIFICANT DRAIN ON NHS RESOURCES.
If you don’t like my opinion, block me. "
65k extra deaths open your eyes |
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By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
"I was just looking to see if anyone had started a thread about this because I was thinking of doing the same!
The amount of people who seem to think intimate meets are safe because lockdown measures has been eased is worrying. I think there are a fair few woman and couples posting these status updates too.
I've been told to shield and I have mentioned this to a couple of people who have asked for physical meets. I'm likely going to need to social distance a lot longer than people who aren't shielding.
One person who I told this to and told them I live with family said he would still meet.
People don't realise how dangerous it can be if you catch the virus. Clearly they care more about getting their leg over than the wellbeing of others.
I'm frustrated but I really don't want to take risks that could make myself or my family seriously unwell. I'm not surprised though.
Rant over... "
Molly I agree totally.
Could you message me to discuss further |
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By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
"Compare with
28,113 STIs were diagnosed among 45 to 64-year-olds in 2015.
The overwhelming majority of which would have been chlamydia
Easily treated by a one-off dose of 1000mg of azithromycin
If untreated the only thing chlamydia does is possibly to make you sterile - which for most of the 45-64 years olds wouldn't be much of a problem. More serious if you are young and wanting to have children of course."
65k additional deaths open your eyes |
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By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
"Numerous requests to meet, mainly single desperate guys, it just ain't going to happen, statistics, right or wrong, who knows, it's guesswork BUT, it's killing people or having an adverse effect on the quality of lives through serious long term illness. It may not effect the younger single man but do they have mums, dads, elderly relatives... just a thought.
"
At last someone talking sense I TOTALLY AGREE |
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"Compare with
28,113 STIs were diagnosed among 45 to 64-year-olds in 2015.
The overwhelming majority of which would have been chlamydia
Easily treated by a one-off dose of 1000mg of azithromycin
If untreated the only thing chlamydia does is possibly to make you sterile - which for most of the 45-64 years olds wouldn't be much of a problem. More serious if you are young and wanting to have children of course.
65k additional deaths open your eyes "
Is that 65K died of covid or during? |
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