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It was all the Care Homes Fault

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How's the one you're in?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"How's the one you're in? "

They are letting me out today

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"How's the one you're in?

They are letting me out today

Hope you have bubble

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

“We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have,” the prime minister said.

or you believe . . .

executive director of the National Care Forum, said: “Care providers have moved to adopt these new procedures consistently, at pace and with integrity.”

Unless you know te truth . . . it's just another story.

If you want the real answer write and ask for FI.

I know at least 3 workers (from different homes) that said they NEVER had PPE or procedures BEFORE the pandemic for any reason.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"How's the one you're in?

They are letting me out today

Hope you have bubble"

Nope followed through...off to bog

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By *adMerWoman over a year ago

Sandwich

We haven’t had a single death from Covid in our care home. We excluded visitors before we were advised to. When contacted by social services to take recovering covid patients from hospital, our manager flat out refused.

We also stepped up infection control and took staff temperatures at the door very early on.

Boris’s rules were too little too late and trying to make care homes take Covid patients was downright idiotic at best!

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By *hybloke67Man over a year ago

ROMFORD

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

Footnote:

First watch Sundays Andrew Marr's program with the head of NHE.

It's interesting what he had to say about care homes and how they need to change.

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By *quarerootMan over a year ago

Helston

I don’t know that it’s the care homes fault per se... however, having dipped my toes in the health and social care sector, it is my belief that many of the privately run homes put profit before high quality care.

The provision of PPE could’ve been managed better across all care sectors. However, the priority HAD to be the NHS/acute care sectors. I believe that many privately run homes were slow to act (ie they didn’t want to dip their hands into their own pockets) to reduce risk. Coupled with this is that a lot of these homes have stripped their staffing, education and training to bare minimum, leaving no resilience.

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By *ebjonnsonMan over a year ago

Maldon

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

You weren’t thinking that he may accept some (any) of the blame were you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

I've stopped listening to this t**t ages ago....

Let me know when the flogging commences!

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By *inkybabe1109Couple over a year ago

Barnsley

More crap from the government. They move the goalposts when people follow what they say. My husband was part of a group printing face shields and when they went to the government to say 'We want to help with PPE' they changed the rules and when they met the rules again they changed them. They had 25,000 face shields ready for care homes and whoever needed them but were told they cant be used so they ended up going to African nations to use who need ppe that will help.

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By *r FirecrackerMan over a year ago

London

According to my cousin he is not wrong, she works in a privately run care home and money comes before people. The home did not put in place the procedures they were advised to as it meant spending company money and they were wanting a government handout. PPE was lacking prior to Covid-19, visitors came and went without any checks or guidance what so ever. She has whistle blowed to CQC as she is certain deaths led to these poor working procedures.

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By *urflrCouple over a year ago

wirral

"We haven’t had a single death from Covid in our care home. We excluded visitors before we were advised to. When contacted by social services to take recovering covid patients from hospital, our manager flat out refused.

We also stepped up infection control and took staff temperatures at the door very early on.

Boris’s rules were too little too late and trying to make care homes take Covid patients was downright idiotic at best!"

Same as in ours. We were incredulous at the start when they said care homes were expected to take covid patients! WTF?! We also refused.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So I look forward to this government taking all the care sector back into the NHS so we don't have private companies working for profits and the expense of the residents.

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

[Removed by poster at 07/07/20 09:47:47]

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

The full story of NHS release of patients to care homes . . .

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-care-homes-discharge/

NHS are just as responsible as anyone else.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not sure who's to blame, maybe 50/50. But our old and vulnerable have been a nice little cash cow for the rich investors for too long, maybe now we can sort them out.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

Like most news stories I suspect there's some truth and some food for the sharks.

And its not accurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths. What he said was "too many care homes didn't follow correct procedures"... Which I think is like saying the sun will set at night.

Certainly some care homes could have done better, they have managers and professional staff and are paid and charge for that service.. And have made fortunes off the back of a growing need.

Im sure some will make political capital out of it though.

My mums care home so far have had no incidence.. Touch wood. So it is possible to follow good safe practise..

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"More crap from the government. They move the goalposts when people follow what they say. My husband was part of a group printing face shields and when they went to the government to say 'We want to help with PPE' they changed the rules and when they met the rules again they changed them. They had 25,000 face shields ready for care homes and whoever needed them but were told they cant be used so they ended up going to African nations to use who need ppe that will help. "

That's unfortunate but the govt aren't responsible for procurement in private care homes... That's the responsibility of the care home management.

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By *r TriomanMan over a year ago

Chippenham Malmesbury area

I think that the Prime Minister is on Shakey ground if he's blaming others for not sticking to the COVID 19 rules (he caught it and Dominic Cummings...).

There shouldn't be a blame culture only lessons learnt. Blaming others doesn't help us when the next pandemic strikes (which it will).

It might be fair to say that some homes could've done better but to do so you'd need to be aware of all the facts. A friend of mine runs a Care Home and didn't have a single case of COVID 19 so it can be done. Maybe homes like this should be studied to fine out why they performed so well?

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By *ornycpl2000Couple over a year ago

Swansea

Having seen so many deaths since the virus hit the care home where I work, PPE was like getting bloody from a stone, I personally ordered 500 masks and, only got 50 delivered, we were trying to get PPE from everywhere, the local government now deliver every week so that issue is longer a problem, the local hospital were pushing patients out, without testing them, that’s how we got our first case into the home, it spread like a grass fire, staff were going sick with it, our manager was ill for weeks, the advice we got changed on a hourly basis, yes the government could of done more, but then even the so called experts got it wrong. For those who think they are invincible you are not, it’s real and thank god a lot of us are still here.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

That's unfortunate but the govt aren't responsible for procurement in private care homes... That's the responsibility of the care home management. "

But the care homes could not get thier hands on any PPE in the early days...but the govt brought in rules to stop them getting any.

If I was sceptical maybe I'd think they wanted it to spread through the homes...

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By *W ChapMan over a year ago

Swindon

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"
That's not what he said, he said some, and the head of care homes didn't exactly contradict him.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

Wherever there's a scapegoat, the govt will use it.

I may be wrong but hospitals were not following advice from the WHO with regards to discharging patients who had been covid 19 positive, so I assume they were following dept of health and social care's.

Then the problem with obtaining PPE.

= govt passing the buck.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We also stepped up infection control and took staff temperatures at the door very early on.

Boris’s rules were too little too late and trying to make care homes take Covid patients was downright idiotic at best!"

Excellent forward thinking by management

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So I look forward to this government taking all the care sector back into the NHS so we don't have private companies working for profits and the expense of the residents."

It won't be under the NHS but social care. NHS is free at the point of contact, social care is means tested.

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

[Removed by poster at 07/07/20 10:35:35]

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

But ALL Care Homes should have been using PPE as a matter of course before the pandemic. Very few were.

And your last statement is just a narrative of conpsiracy that suggests the government had an agenda of genocide for older people in care homes - it's a ridiculous statement.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

There's obviously contributors on here with some great expertise and experience... Way beyond my understanding so take most of these as an opportunity to learn. There's a great article in the tory graph this morning with 16 diverse analysts pulling apart our response... Makes interesting reading if any of you are bored and have time... Of course not as much fun as reading Jasmine's latest but real world stuff.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The government messed up getting PPE sourced and imported from other countries! How and why can they now give care homes stick for something they couldn't even sort out themselves. It shouldn't be a name and shame culture we should learn to do better for next time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's obviously contributors on here with some great expertise and experience... Way beyond my understanding so take most of these as an opportunity to learn. There's a great article in the tory graph this morning with 16 diverse analysts pulling apart our response... Makes interesting reading if any of you are bored and have time... Of course not as much fun as reading Jasmine's latest but real world stuff. "

Where were all these experts at the start of this? I mean it's all too easy to comment in hindsight and to comment on complex decisions made by other people isn't it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

I've stopped listening to this t**t ages ago....

Let me know when the flogging commences! "

Would love to see you flogging him, could it be televised

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By *elma and ShaggyCouple over a year ago

Bedworth

"According to my cousin he is not wrong, she works in a privately run care home and money comes before people. The home did not put in place the procedures they were advised to as it meant spending company money and they were wanting a government handout. PPE was lacking prior to Covid-19, visitors came and went without any checks or guidance what so ever. She has whistle blowed to CQC as she is certain deaths led to these poor working procedures. "

It’s not just care homes who have not followed the procedures that they’re were advised to, there are many employers who have put profits before lives.

Take Royal Mail for instance. In most depots staff have been working shoulder to shoulder sorting throughout the pandemic. It took months for the company to provide any hand sanitiser, staff who had any had bought their own. The only concessions to the virus were to stop van sharing and stop customers signing the PDA for parcels. The only thing that has prevented more postal worker deaths has been how fit most Posties are from the 10+ mile walks every day

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

It was obvious that they would be happy and very willing to shift any blame on to others that they could. The 'experts', care home providers and anyone else are all to be blamed, without mentioning any action the government took, or didn't, whilst leaders won't be admitting doing anything wrong. Any mention of facts that highlight how the UK has fared amongst the worst in the world will be called out as too early to be talked about, or understood.

The fingers of blame will be quick to be pointed and anything that can be kicked out of sight or into the future, will happen.

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By *van ArdenMan over a year ago

Coleford, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire.

I would have expectd nothing less from the blond haired clown we laughingly refer to as the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

Johnson is an absolute fucking muppet but a very dangerous muppet

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It was obvious that they would be happy and very willing to shift any blame on to others that they could. The 'experts', care home providers and anyone else are all to be blamed, without mentioning any action the government took, or didn't, whilst leaders won't be admitting doing anything wrong. Any mention of facts that highlight how the UK has fared amongst the worst in the world will be called out as too early to be talked about, or understood.

The fingers of blame will be quick to be pointed and anything that can be kicked out of sight or into the future, will happen. "
I don't think he was blaming all care homes for the high death rate. It's more laying the ground work for debate, because the government going to shake up social care and they looking to see what the backlash might be, they often do this if not sure what to do. lol

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Where were all these experts at the start of this? I mean it's all too easy to comment in hindsight and to comment on complex decisions made by other people isn't it. "

Very true but that's the whole purpose of the piece..with what we know now... The title is... "Was lockdown really worth it? Telegraph writers and experts give their verdict"... I'm sure there's heaps of content out there but most seem to be trying to score political points or bombastic. Take a read if you have time. It's interesting.

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"
I think Boris sometimes says the wrong thing because he speaks off the cuff to much.It is a fault of his and is a problem.

The fault is caused by thinking to fast it is also why he stutters.

I do not know why he as not been cured of this I could do it as I had the same problem,luckily I had an uncle who drilled me everyday for three months in my teens.

It did cure me although when typing it happens it is why you often you see me make so many silly spelling mistakes here.

So common Boris get treated for heavens sake as PM you must be aware of the problem

It is maybe why I am more understanding of him than most

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By *andlingswingersCouple over a year ago

Woodbridge

" but the govt aren't responsible for procurement in private care homes... That's the responsibility of the care home management. "

The government are responsible for the instruction to care home that there was no risk accepting new guests who had not been and were not going to be tested.

There is a memo from central government saying exactly this. It's very easy to find online.

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By *andlingswingersCouple over a year ago

Woodbridge

It is maybe why I am more understanding of him than most"

Personally, I don't want to be understanding of a racist liar sacked twice for lying who has taken government to new heights of back-scratching corruption and who hires a racist Home Secretary who had to resign for lying.

As for 'he thinks too fast' - he says the first thing equivocal thing he thinks of, so he can't be blamed either way, then chucks in some O Level Latin so that thick people think he's really clever, then adds a racist slur, then denies he ever said it or pretends like a dim 13 year old that he was only joking when he's called out on it.

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By *lassy lady 216Woman over a year ago

Craigavon

It is always easier to blame others than stand up and take responsibility yourself it was his fault mostly that the care hones had so many deaths but then this is what he wanted hence why he forced hospitals to make nursing home take covid patients in and as some nursing homes were already struggling financially they were only too happy to take them because they were paid big rewards we have an aging population and thats why he sent so many into care homes because he knew they would die once you become retiring age you are of no use to the government and a burden to the nhs the nursing home i was working in when this happened was one such nursing home that was forced to take in covid patients luckily we had a new unit just built which was going to be opened for emi patients but it hadnt happened so we were able to take covid patients and keep them away from the general unit the whole health care system needs to be looked at and corrected to me there should be no private nursing homes allowed therefore they wouldnt be allowed to make such huge profit off are aging population all nursing homes should be government run its ridiculous that people are having to sell there homes just to get what thry they should be entitled too for free after all its this generation that are dying that built the country and went to war for it think they deserve something back

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Do a survey .. Ask the question, do you think care homes should take none / some / all of the responsibility for their clients deaths? And let's try and get the story accurate. It's very easy to take pot shots at people at the moment.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I wondered how long it would take for them to get the blame....

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By *moothman2000Man over a year ago

Leicestershire

Hospitals sending Covid carriers to a nursing home full of people more succeptible to Covid due to age and/or underlying conditions.

That was simply pushing people out the door to die away from the hospitals.

I fully accept that hard choices need to be made sometimes, but we should expect the people making them to take responsibility for them, not try and save their petty political careers by pushing the blame onto others.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hospitals sending Covid carriers to a nursing home full of people more succeptible to Covid due to age and/or underlying conditions.

That was simply pushing people out the door to die away from the hospitals.

This exactly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Do a survey .. Ask the question, do you think care homes should take none / some / all of the responsibility for their clients deaths? And let's try and get the story accurate. It's very easy to take pot shots at people at the moment. "

My mrs works In a nursing home.

They were pressured by the nhs to take in 3 patients.

21 died including those 3.

80% of staff got infected including my wife who then passed it on to me.

They where told the 3 patients were

covid free.

Yet my sister is a manager at another nursing home and she was pressured as well but point blank refused.

She kept her home covid free.

It not really rocket science.

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By *ungblackbullMan over a year ago

scotland

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

Maybe if the Government had released/acted on Exercise Cygnus then care homes would have been better prepared. Obviously, I don't know the content of the report, but that's my thoughts....

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By *arksxMan over a year ago

Leicester / London

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

Absolutely sick and tired of these double speak comments from all sides of the political spectrum.

https://youtu.be/Fub8PsNxBqI

And the interviewers and journalists who dont have the balls to hold mps feet to fire and get them to answer questions straight

Borris wiffel waffle speaches are the worst for it. Does anyone believe he talks to the cabinet or senior aids with like that?

And if he does we need a new, more assertive leader with conviction and sense of moral code to own his mistakes.

It would take an unreasonable person to expect the government did everything right with a brand new virus...

Albeit this a major fuck up on their part

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By *eddy and legsCouple over a year ago

the wetlands

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

What do you expect from a pig but a grunt

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By *moothman2000Man over a year ago

Leicestershire

My mrs works In a nursing home.

They were pressured by the nhs to take in 3 patients.

21 died including those 3.

80% of staff got infected including my wife who then passed it on to me.

They where told the 3 patients were

covid free.

And because of that, the care home will soon have CQC all over them to reinforce the idea that the care home is to blame...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My mrs works In a nursing home.

They were pressured by the nhs to take in 3 patients.

21 died including those 3.

80% of staff got infected including my wife who then passed it on to me.

They where told the 3 patients were

covid free.

And because of that, the care home will soon have CQC all over them to reinforce the idea that the care home is to blame..."

They were involved instantly my mrs whistle blew the company

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

Many of the care homes are owned by private equity funds that extract the value of the properties and load up the business with debt. It was reported that over £1.5 billion is extracted in profit from the taxpayer and residents families, enriching directors and shareholders. Some are also owned by hedge funds some of whom are big Tory donors.

If Boris is blaming the care homes for their “failure in following the procedures”, then his own backers are to blame. Can’t see this ending well.

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By *moothman2000Man over a year ago

Leicestershire

"It was reported that over £1.5 billion is extracted in profit from the taxpayer and residents families, enriching directors and shareholders. "

They're businesses, of course they're going to make a profit.

Councils decide how much they are going to pay for residents they send to a private care home, so it's not really a case of profit being 'extracted'.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the nhs has a hand in this in fact a big hand as they sent people back to care homes untested ..those homes who shut down a couple of weeks before the lockdown and said no to the nhs trying to force patients back to them untested are the homes that manage to stay covid free...

this was being reported right from the begining by some media but the story was not juicy enought ...

i think there is going to be alot of legal challenges to nhs/drs as to why the elderly were hung out to dry

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the nhs has a hand in this in fact a big hand as they sent people back to care homes untested ..those homes who shut down a couple of weeks before the lockdown and said no to the nhs trying to force patients back to them untested are the homes that manage to stay covid free...

this was being reported right from the begining by some media but the story was not juicy enought ...

i think there is going to be alot of legal challenges to nhs/drs as to why the elderly were hung out to dry"

In my wifes case the 3 patients from the hospital were nog from that home.

They went to hospital from their own houses.

But were sent to the nursing hope for respite before they were allowed to back to their houses .

They never got there

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

this was being reported right from the begining by some media but the story was not juicy enought ...

i think there is going to be alot of legal challenges to nhs/drs as to why the elderly were hung out to dry"

But where did that policy come from? Did the NHS take it upon itself??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

I would be banned and no doubt lectured by people that tell me ‘I don’t love my country’ if I wanted to give you my full opinion of the Prime Minister; so I’ll give you the short version.

Lying, dodging, odious, pompous little shit of a ......... man

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don’t know that it’s the care homes fault per se... however, having dipped my toes in the health and social care sector, it is my belief that many of the privately run homes put profit before high quality care.

the nhs had all the ppe supplies and cleaning supplys as priority add on to that the selfishness of panic buyers and ebayer looking to make money how was that the care homes fault ??

care homes are heavly govened by the cqc if your not up to standard then you will get shutdown...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

I would be banned and no doubt lectured by people that tell me ‘I don’t love my country’ if I wanted to give you my full opinion of the Prime Minister; so I’ll give you the short version.

Lying, dodging, odious, pompous little shit of a ......... man

Don't say that! You utter traitor. Boris can do no wrong, you must know this??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

this was being reported right from the begining by some media but the story was not juicy enought ...

i think there is going to be alot of legal challenges to nhs/drs as to why the elderly were hung out to dry

But where did that policy come from? Did the NHS take it upon itself??"

its always been there the nhs wants people out asap (numbers game) but its worse with the elderly and homes always has been and needs to be addressed not talking about nursing homes as they are equipped to cope but residential homes not so its not there job to be nursing its there job to look after otherwise they are like everyone else go to drs or go to hospital when ill...

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

Alot of people have made alot of mistakes, nobody should take full blame alone. It was the nhs that wasn't disclosing covid status on some patients before discharging them to care homes, some private care homes simply didn't source any PPE for their staff. Yes, the government have made mistakes, flights to and from the UK should have been grounded as soon as covid spread out of China, that would have been far better. However, hindsight is a wonderful thing, all of the simulated pandemic preparations in no way prepares for it actually happening.

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Alot of people have made alot of mistakes, nobody should take full blame alone. It was the nhs that wasn't disclosing covid status on some patients before discharging them to care homes, some private care homes simply didn't source any PPE for their staff. Yes, the government have made mistakes, flights to and from the UK should have been grounded as soon as covid spread out of China, that would have been far better. However, hindsight is a wonderful thing, all of the simulated pandemic preparations in no way prepares for it actually happening.

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

I would be banned and no doubt lectured by people that tell me ‘I don’t love my country’ if I wanted to give you my full opinion of the Prime Minister; so I’ll give you the short version.

Lying, dodging, odious, pompous little shit of a ......... man

Lol

Don’t care! It says a lot that none of the other devolved governments have started finger pointing. A death is a death is a death; no one would appreciate what he said - especially after the sudden hero worship he generated with clap for carers.

It’s a slap in the face of all the hard working people on piss poor wages and long hours.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

Wit till it's over is what they want. Remember, there is a Russia report that they refuse release. This is the Bannon game, throw it out there that it was the care workers fault, or the NHS's fault. That's all they have to do. 'Look over there......'

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By *hades Of GreyMan over a year ago

Leeds

So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

Boris has not 'laid the blame' he said that "many care homes hadn't followed the procedures in the way that they could have..". Merely stating a fact.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

this was being reported right from the begining by some media but the story was not juicy enought ...

i think there is going to be alot of legal challenges to nhs/drs as to why the elderly were hung out to dry

But where did that policy come from? Did the NHS take it upon itself??

Hospitals are notorious for sending residential home patients back to the homes when they are not medically fit for discharge. Anything to free up hosital beds. This then results in the care home having to put avoidable strain on the emergency services when having to ring an ambulance for said residents to get them readmitted. This is the norm and has been for years.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

Boris has not 'laid the blame' he said that "many care homes hadn't followed the procedures in the way that they could have..". Merely stating a fact."

Can't be a fact because Sharma said there were no procedures for them to follow. So, he doesn't really know what he is talking about. Bit worrying..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

He is a wanker

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *hades Of GreyMan over a year ago

Leeds

So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

Boris has not 'laid the blame' he said that "many care homes hadn't followed the procedures in the way that they could have..". Merely stating a fact.

Can't be a fact because Sharma said there were no procedures for them to follow. So, he doesn't really know what he is talking about. Bit worrying..

All care homes have hygiene procedures, many of which are no doubt not strictly adhered to.

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By *moothman2000Man over a year ago

Leicestershire

As a slight aside, the £600m infection control thing - it has to be spent on 'authorised' things.

Nobody will commit to what these 'authorised' things are, so the money is just sat there.

The £3.2bn made available in March and April is a loan, not a 'bailout'.

Smoke and mirrors...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

Boris has not 'laid the blame' he said that "many care homes hadn't followed the procedures in the way that they could have..". Merely stating a fact."

They issued several different sets of guidance, the first instruction from the government to stop visiting was not made till the 15th April..

A lot of homes thankfully did not wait..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *hades Of GreyMan over a year ago

Leeds

So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

Boris has not 'laid the blame' he said that "many care homes hadn't followed the procedures in the way that they could have..". Merely stating a fact.

They issued several different sets of guidance, the first instruction from the government to stop visiting was not made till the 15th April..

A lot of homes thankfully did not wait..

There's a difference between 'procedures' and 'guidance'.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not sure who's to blame, maybe 50/50. But our old and vulnerable have been a nice little cash cow for the rich investors for too long, maybe now we can sort them out. "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *moothman2000Man over a year ago

Leicestershire

There's a difference between 'procedures' and 'guidance'."

I agree.

Way to much of this cuddly 'guidance' and 'recommendations' shit where a solid instruction would have been far more effective.

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By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

So a Tory pm is complaining about a business putting peoples welfare above money?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

You do realise Boris wasn't the one who discharged the patients into care homes? It's been happening for years and it's the responsibility of the hospital to fully inform the care home of any diagnoses, this was happening 30 years ago, how is that the current government's fault?

Yes, the government have done things wrong, I don't think anyone is saying they haven't made mistakes but you cannot blame every little thing on them. There have been issues in some care homes for years, lack of care, proper hygiene procedures, abuse etc, so I do believe that some if them won't have don't what was needed.

Why does it seem that only the government are allowed to be scrutinised?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

Boris has not 'laid the blame' he said that "many care homes hadn't followed the procedures in the way that they could have..". Merely stating a fact.

Can't be a fact because Sharma said there were no procedures for them to follow. So, he doesn't really know what he is talking about. Bit worrying..

All care homes have hygiene procedures, many of which are no doubt not strictly adhered to."

But his ministers have been sent out to furiously row back on what he said?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

Why does it seem that only the government are allowed to be scrutinised? "

That's the problem, they never are..

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

Why does it seem that only the government are allowed to be scrutinised?

That's the problem, they never are.."

Really? I thought that's what you've been doing all these months?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

The fingers of blame will be quick to be pointed and anything that can be kicked out of sight or into the future, will happen. I don't think he was blaming all care homes for the high death rate. It's more laying the ground work for debate, because the government going to shake up social care and they looking to see what the backlash might be, they often do this if not sure what to do. lol"

I think it's laying the ground work for any and everyone else to take the blame but him and his failure of a team. The blueprint is clear and they've shown they'll readily show it's never too early to push blame away from themselves

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

Why does it seem that only the government are allowed to be scrutinised?

That's the problem, they never are..

Really? I thought that's what you've been doing all these months? "

No need for personal attacks. I'm just saying what a lot of people are thinking. Just look at Johnson's track record. Maybe you should look a lot closer...

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By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

Testing the water.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

In the area where I am based at the moment the Local Authority made some bad decisions regarding support for Care Homes.

I wouldn’t expect any other department to take responsibility for their bad judgement.

I am sure there are other similar situations throughout the country.

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By *r FirecrackerMan over a year ago

London

So a Tory pm is complaining about a business putting peoples welfare above money?"

People will use every opportunity to make decisions correct or incorrect political, just remember where this came from, China. So if you want to see the real cause of the issue punished avoid buying anything that will help the Chinese economy

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

Boris has not 'laid the blame' he said that "many care homes hadn't followed the procedures in the way that they could have..". Merely stating a fact.

They issued several different sets of guidance, the first instruction from the government to stop visiting was not made till the 15th April..

A lot of homes thankfully did not wait.. "

My wifes home locked down 2 weeks before the main lockdown.

The infection did come from the staff or the public.

It came from the nhs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

Why does it seem that only the government are allowed to be scrutinised? "

It was government policy that patients who were not displaying covid symptoms could be discharged back into care homes WITHOUT being tested or those that had tested positive could be returned after 7 days without a negative test. Care homes whether private or otherwise had no way of forcing tests to be carried out. Local authority home or those partly comissioned by the local authorities were not in a legal position to refuse to take residents back if the hospital discharged them (I can't speak for out and out privately run care homes). All they could try and do was isolate said resident in their room for 14 days to try and protect everyone else. Ever tried that with a resident with dementia? I think the general public seem to think it's a simple task

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By *luebell888Woman over a year ago

Glasgowish

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

Yes i agree. We had no protective equipment for many weeks and were getting shipped out to work in sister care homes by our bosses. Also we had two admissions from hospitals.

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Correction - it was NHS Policy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Correction - it was NHS Policy."

Nope

What we recieved was government policyfrom the Welsh Government at the time, at least in Wales

I still have the document in my work emails somewhere.... Although it has been severely amended since

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Well I have a friend who says just the opposite and she is head of department.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well I have a friend who says just the opposite and she is head of department.

Maybe she receieved a different document from us

I can only speak from personal experience anyway and obviously cannot go into too much detail re employers or local authorities etc

If someone else had a different experience then thats fine

I can only give my point of view from what we recieved and the experiences we had

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

"Well I have a friend who says just the opposite and she is head of department.

Maybe she receieved a different document from us

I can only speak from personal experience anyway and obviously cannot go into too much detail re employers or local authorities etc

If someone else had a different experience then thats fine

I can only give my point of view from what we recieved and the experiences we had

Not meaning to argue at all baby really - I suppose to be truthful policy was absolutely everywhere for weeks.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

Why does it seem that only the government are allowed to be scrutinised?

That's the problem, they never are..

Really? I thought that's what you've been doing all these months?

No need for personal attacks. I'm just saying what a lot of people are thinking. Just look at Johnson's track record. Maybe you should look a lot closer..."

Lol, a personal attack? I think not. You've been saying you're scrutinising them for months.

I'm not saying our government are faultless but there are other people that have made mistakes too.

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By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well I have a friend who says just the opposite and she is head of department.

Maybe she receieved a different document from us

I can only speak from personal experience anyway and obviously cannot go into too much detail re employers or local authorities etc

If someone else had a different experience then thats fine

I can only give my point of view from what we recieved and the experiences we had

Not meaning to argue at all baby really - I suppose to be truthful policy was absolutely everywhere for weeks.

I didn't think you were

But just because your friend had a different experience thats fine

I can only speak from a personal perspective

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Did he say what procedures were not followed??

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

I didn't think you were

But just because your friend had a different experience thats fine

I can only speak from a personal perspective"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Politicians passing the buck? Really!!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eddy and legsCouple over a year ago

the wetlands

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Did he say what procedures were not followed?? "

He wouldn't know what the procedures are ffs

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Did he say what procedures were not followed??

He wouldn't know what the procedures are ffs"

Good point

I don't think he knows what day it is half the time

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

[Removed by poster at 07/07/20 17:19:47]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Did he say what procedures were not followed?? "

Yes. The correct ones.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Did he say what procedures were not followed??

Yes. The correct ones.

So no then

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Did he say what procedures were not followed??

Yes. The correct ones.

So no then

In fairness to the floppy haired fop, I doubt he wrote the procedures, so I doubt he's much idea what they say.

I still dont think he was wrong though. Anecdotal posts on this thread seem to concur...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Get away with yourself...whether he said "some" or "all". He is bang out of order as they had not been able to get adequate PPE...they had no proper guide lines and they were getting vivid victims sent from every hospital without details ot if the patient had covid or not.

Dont let a little truth get in the way eh

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By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Dont let a little truth get in the way eh

No one could get PPE at one point though could they.

Guessing that's his fault too though.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Dont let a little truth get in the way eh

No one could get PPE at one point though could they.

Guessing that's his fault too though.

It's about him being so quick to pass the buck to others. Next ot will be the NHS or the scientists. The man is a lazy lying toe rag.

I just wander why he gets any defense on here.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?"

The evidence supports him. The most dangerous place to have lived during this pandemic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also didn't help with hospitals discharging patients (with covid19 or not tested for covid19) back to the care homes.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?"

This. ^^^^

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Even the NHS didn't get the PPE it needed to begin with. It was prioritised for those staff directly helping Covid patients without realising how it could be spread throughout the hospital. Social care couldn't get PPE from government sources as it was routed to the NHS and continued to be until very recently.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Did he say what procedures were not followed??

Yes. The correct ones.

So no then

In fairness to the floppy haired fop, I doubt he wrote the procedures, so I doubt he's much idea what they say.

I still dont think he was wrong though. Anecdotal posts on this thread seem to concur..."

But surely if he is accusing people of breaking procedures he must know what those procedures were to be able to accuse people of breaking them??

Or is that too much to expect of the person in charge of the country??

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Dont let a little truth get in the way eh

No one could get PPE at one point though could they.

Guessing that's his fault too though.

It's about him being so quick to pass the buck to others. Next ot will be the NHS or the scientists. The man is a lazy lying toe rag.

I just wander why he gets any defense on here."

But, and I'll refer to your original post, he didn't blame the care himes.

What he said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

Are you saying all care homes followed all the procedures?

Again, the anecdotal evidence on this thread suggests many didn't.

And of course, provision of PPE for privately run care homes has nothing to do with central government. Its the responsibility of the care home owners. And them alone.

How anyone can blame central government is beyond me.

If you're going to keep trying to fire cheap shots you need better ammo.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Did he say what procedures were not followed??

Yes. The correct ones.

So no then

In fairness to the floppy haired fop, I doubt he wrote the procedures, so I doubt he's much idea what they say.

I still dont think he was wrong though. Anecdotal posts on this thread seem to concur...

But surely if he is accusing people of breaking procedures he must know what those procedures were to be able to accuse people of breaking them??

Or is that too much to expect of the person in charge of the country??

Someone probably told him. I reckon he's got enough on his plate to visit all the care homes and check them out.

However, the reports he will/should have read would have given him an indication of what the procedures were.

In the past my teams have reported back to me, xyz aren't following the procedures.

My first question, which ones.....?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think everyone should wait until its over, or as close to as we can, then look at what mistakes were made and work harder together to make sure they don't happen again.

Why does it seem that only the government are allowed to be scrutinised?

That's the problem, they never are..

Really? I thought that's what you've been doing all these months?

No need for personal attacks. I'm just saying what a lot of people are thinking. Just look at Johnson's track record. Maybe you should look a lot closer...

Lol, a personal attack? I think not. You've been saying you're scrutinising them for months.

I'm not saying our government are faultless but there are other people that have made mistakes too. "

Not saying they haven't, and before I get laid into for government bashing. I think Sunak has done a good job. The government has done a great thing with Hong Kong. Even Dominic Raab passed a cracking bit of legislation with the Magnitsky Act.

I can say when they do good things, but I also think they have made an utter balls up of the virus. Some people just think the cult of Boris allows him to carry absolutely no responsibility whatsoever which is basically what a lot of people here are heading towards. As I said before, look at Johnson's record. If that isn't enough, look at they way he treats his ex partners and children he has sired, then ask yourself if this man really gives a fuck about a people in care homes.

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

It's about him being so quick to pass the buck to others. Next ot will be the NHS or the scientists. The man is a lazy lying toe rag.

I just wander why he gets any defense on here."

Wow. I wonder if you see the irony in what you are writing.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

So a Tory pm is complaining about a business putting peoples welfare above money?

Fuck.

Had a Chinese on sat night.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Presumably he will just as forthcoming about mistakes he has made?

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By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

"How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?"

Because the gmnt have a duty of care?

Why are they,allegedly,pumping billions into the care sector if they have no responsibility?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about him being so quick to pass the buck to others. Next ot will be the NHS or the scientists. The man is a lazy lying toe rag.

I just wander why he gets any defense on here.

Wow. I wonder if you see the irony in what you are writing."

Erm, he has form of passing the buck....

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Erm, he has form of passing the buck...."

You say.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Erm, he has form of passing the buck....

You say. "

Have you not looked at his record?

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

Erm, he has form of passing the buck....

You say.

Have you not looked at his record?"

My post was actually talking about the irony of what the poster wrote - couldn't give a flying fig about Boris - but read my fact-check above and the other posts here with regard to what happened and you will see it properly.

Just shouting off sentences that really don't mean anything doesn't help anyone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Erm, he has form of passing the buck....

You say.

Have you not looked at his record?

Just shouting off sentences that really don't mean anything doesn't help anyone."

Nor does blind adulation...

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

- couldn't give a flying fig about Boris -

Nor does blind adulation..."

Wasn't really that hard to find in the few sentences that I wrote.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

- couldn't give a flying fig about Boris -

Nor does blind adulation...

Wasn't really that hard to find in the few sentences that I wrote.

But your original points about fact checking or PPE don't even count because Boris was so wonderfully vague......on purpose might I add. He didn't even know what he meant, hence ministers saying there were no guidelines. But, as ever, he throws out these vague statements into the public domain and gets everybody pointing fingers at everybody but him.

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By *atEvolutionCouple over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke

But the truth still remains that it was all a bit of both.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But the truth still remains that it was all a bit of both."

Quite possibly, but Boris will never take his 'bit'. It's his modus operandi...

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By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?

Because the gmnt have a duty of care?

Why are they,allegedly,pumping billions into the care sector if they have no responsibility?"

The privately run/owned care homes themselves are the ones that hold the duty of care for their residents.

And those are the ones at the core of the thread.

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Dont let a little truth get in the way eh

He isn't out of order, private care homes are responsible for sourcing their own PPE, if they didn't do that then that's their fault. Doctors were discharging patients, not Boris. The doctors were banned from testing people, they just didn't do it. Care homes already have procedures for highly infectious diseases, one of the first things they do is stop visitors, they did it the end of last year when norovirus was around, they didn't wait for the government to tell them they could.

Some of the doctors and care home managers/owners have to accept some of the blame for this if people insist on throwing out blame.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?

Because the gmnt have a duty of care?

Why are they,allegedly,pumping billions into the care sector if they have no responsibility?"

If this is true and they are pumping in billions,why are private care homes not managing the government funding,as well as the many thousands paid by the residents?

Should I blame the government because the wheels on my car need changed periodically,or I need new shoes?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So Johnson has laid the blame of excess deaths on the care home providers for not adhering to COVID-19 rules

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? What you wrote is wholly inaccurate.

It's inaccurate to say he laid the blame for the excess deaths at the hands of care homes.

What he actually said was "Too many care homes didn't follow the correct procedures"

I doubt he's wrong.

Lets not a little thing like accuracy get in way of trying to score a few cheap political points though.

Dont let a little truth get in the way eh

Some of the doctors and care home managers/owners have to accept some of the blame for this if people insist on throwing out blame. "

I would say hospital managers as well.

Because that's who the familys of

victims in the nursing home my wife works in are going after.

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"But the truth still remains that it was all a bit of both.

Quite possibly, but Boris will never take his 'bit'. It's his modus operandi..."

Actually, in a recent speech, he said 'And I know that there are plenty of things that people say and will say that we got wrong and we owe that discussion and that honesty to the tens of thousands who have died before their time......and of course there must be time to learn the lessons'.

Thats clearly an acknowledgement that thing didn't go entirely to plan and that mistakes were made.

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?

Because the gmnt have a duty of care?

Why are they,allegedly,pumping billions into the care sector if they have no responsibility?

If this is true and they are pumping in billions,why are private care homes not managing the government funding,as well as the many thousands paid by the residents?

Should I blame the government because the wheels on my car need changed periodically,or I need new shoes?

EVERYTHING can be blamed on the government, didn't you know? You burnt your toast? Fuck you Boris, you didn't tell me to read the instructions that came with my toaster!

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By *arlomaleMan over a year ago

darlington

A local hospital up near me sent 300 people back to care homes without checking them for Covid-19 as someone as said previously hospital managers need to be looked at

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As a carer myself, I find that remark a bloody insult! Whilst I agree the NHS are doing a fantastic job, they were prioritised with PPE. And us carers struggled to get it. We had to buy expensive off the web untill super dry helped us out. So if we are to blame, it lies at governments feet being slow to get us what we needed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As a carer myself, I find that remark a bloody insult! Whilst I agree the NHS are doing a fantastic job, they were prioritised with PPE. And us carers struggled to get it. We had to buy expensive off the web untill super dry helped us out. So if we are to blame, it lies at governments feet being slow to get us what we needed.

Or it lies at the feet of the management of the nursing home

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By *on12xxMan over a year ago

leeds

Boris. Disgusting has he no morals

He hung the care homes out to dry

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It must annoy you when people tell you not to be offended by it!

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By *on12xxMan over a year ago

leeds

Hospital knew what they were doing sending back to care homes.

Hospital management are a disgrace.

Hospital medical staff total respect

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By *hades Of GreyMan over a year ago

Leeds

Boris. Disgusting has he no morals

He hung the care homes out to dry

Even more drivel!

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

Is yours a private care home?

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By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

"How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?

Because the gmnt have a duty of care?

Why are they,allegedly,pumping billions into the care sector if they have no responsibility?

The privately run/owned care homes themselves are the ones that hold the duty of care for their residents.

And those are the ones at the core of the thread.

There is responsibilitiy on both sides.

Like I said previously however if bj is keen to point out the shortcomings of private homes,in sure he is just as open about his own failings in the handling of this crises.

Any time now...

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By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

"How can a care home,many many of which are privately owned and run,blame the government for lack of ppe.

It's not the governments responsibility to provide for private care,many of these homes charging residents many thousands of pounds a month to look after them?

Because the gmnt have a duty of care?

Why are they,allegedly,pumping billions into the care sector if they have no responsibility?

If this is true and they are pumping in billions,why are private care homes not managing the government funding,as well as the many thousands paid by the residents?

Should I blame the government because the wheels on my car need changed periodically,or I need new shoes?

Strangely enough there are a few minor differences to national health care and shoes.

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By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

"Hospital knew what they were doing sending back to care homes.

Hospital management are a disgrace.

Hospital medical staff total respect"

Did the hospital management make that decision independently?

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By *inkerbell67Woman over a year ago

Clacton on sea essex

The hospitals were told to empty 30,000 beds when the virus hit ,so they stuck a lot of elderly in the homes but they didnt bother testing them before they left ,so in a way its the NHS fought .as for homes with out protective clothing by law they have to have gloves and aprons to deal with bodily fludies and residents with infections, thats one thing the CQC are hot on when they inspect..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It must annoy you when people tell you not to be offended by it!"

Who is telling her not to be offended by what he said.

We are offended by what he said.

But more annoyed at who thought it was a good idea for Newcastle RVI to send 3 infected patients to my wifes nursing home.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The hospitals were told to empty 30,000 beds when the virus hit ,so they stuck a lot of elderly in the homes but they didnt bother testing them before they left ,so in a way its the NHS fought .as for homes with out protective clothing by law they have to have gloves and aprons to deal with bodily fludies and residents with infections, thats one thing the CQC are hot on when they inspect.."

Who told them to empty the 30,000 beds?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Who told them to empty the 30,000 beds?"

Are we allowed to take a wild guess? ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or it lies at the feet of the management of the nursing home"

Do you mean the owners of the home.

Because my mrs works in one and her manager was brow beaten into taken 3 from hospital by both the nhs and the owners of the home.

21 died.

My mrs and I caught it.

Yet my sister is a manager at another home and the owners told her it was entirely upto her.

She refused to take anyone from the hospital and never had one case of covid in either the clients or the staff.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Who told them to empty the 30,000 beds?

Are we allowed to take a wild guess? ?

Go on then

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

Who told them to empty the 30,000 beds?

Are we allowed to take a wild guess? ?

Sir Simon Stevens and Amanda Pritchard

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By *ionelhutzMan over a year ago

liverpool

Or it lies at the feet of the management of the nursing home

Do you mean the owners of the home.

Because my mrs works in one and her manager was brow beaten into taken 3 from hospital by both the nhs and the owners of the home.

21 died.

My mrs and I caught it.

Yet my sister is a manager at another home and the owners told her it was entirely upto her.

She refused to take anyone from the hospital and never had one case of covid in either the clients or the staff."

But wouldn't someone have instructed the NHS to do that?

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By *hrobberMan over a year ago

North West

Next it will be the pubs the protestors the shops the NHS the public the opposition and Nicola Sturgeon. Anyone but president Johnson.

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

Or it lies at the feet of the management of the nursing home

Do you mean the owners of the home.

Because my mrs works in one and her manager was brow beaten into taken 3 from hospital by both the nhs and the owners of the home.

21 died.

My mrs and I caught it.

Yet my sister is a manager at another home and the owners told her it was entirely upto her.

She refused to take anyone from the hospital and never had one case of covid in either the clients or the staff.

But wouldn't someone have instructed the NHS to do that?"

Why don't you just say what you want to say? It must have been the government?

Hospitals were told they didn't have to test people with no symptoms when discharged, not that they weren't allowed to. If they had wanted to, they could have tested people.

There's plenty of people who should/could have done things they didn't, if you want to start blaming one, you have to blame them all.

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"Next it will be the pubs the protestors the shops the NHS the public the opposition and Nicola Sturgeon. Anyone but president Johnson."

To be fair, some members of the public have acted like fecking knobjockeys.

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

It is maybe why I am more understanding of him than most

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By *moothman2000Man over a year ago

Leicestershire

".as for homes with out protective clothing by law they have to have gloves and aprons to deal with bodily fludies and residents with infections, thats one thing the CQC are hot on when they inspect.."

But not facemasks, which was one of the fundemental problems.

If a massive machine like the NHS with all their gigantic buying power were struggling to source them, what chance did a 30 bed care home have..?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

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By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship. "

When it's something the government are responsible for, I'll criticise them.

Why are some people so blind they can't see where responsibility lies.

Provision of PPE in privately owned care homes is the responsibility of the care home owner. It's nothing to do with government.

Let me ask a question; If another party was in power, say for example one you voted for, was making the same decisions with the same outcomes, would you still be maintain your position that "It's the government's fault?"

I think we all know the answer.

This has bugger all to do with right and wrong, it's political point scoring against the enemy.

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By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"Boris. Disgusting has he no morals

He hung the care homes out to dry"

Utter Bollocks.

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By *armandwet50Couple over a year ago

Far far away

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship. "

Constructive criticism would be helpful maybe with good ideas that may save lives and help the situation........ however political point scoring during or even after the pandemic is just pathetic IMHO

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By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

It's a very very low, very cheap shot.

I'm happy to criticize the government for things they get wrong.

I'm buggered if I'll criticise them for things that aren't their responsibility though.

And I'll certainly not blame them for saying something they didn't say.

I hold this posture for all party's.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

When it's something the government are responsible for, I'll criticise them.

Why are some people so blind they can't see where responsibility lies.

Provision of PPE in privately owned care homes is the responsibility of the care home owner. It's nothing to do with government.

I think we all know the answer.

This has bugger all to do with right and wrong, it's political point scoring against the enemy.

Wrong, actually, some of us don't have our political scarfs so tight that the blood has long left the brain.

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By *armandwet50Couple over a year ago

Far far away

"Next it will be the pubs the protestors the shops the NHS the public the opposition and Nicola Sturgeon. Anyone but president Johnson."

All of the above are the only ones responsible for spreading this virus or have you official reports of BOJO or his government going around spraying the virus onto everybody? The sooner the public, i.e. everyone realises it's no good blaming anyone only we can sort this out.

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By *armandwet50Couple over a year ago

Far far away

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

It's a very very low, very cheap shot.

I'm happy to criticize the government for things they get wrong.

I'm buggered if I'll criticise them for things that aren't their responsibility though.

And I'll certainly not blame them for saying something they didn't say.

I hold this posture for all party's. "

Agreed

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

It's a very very low, very cheap shot.

I'm happy to criticize the government for things they get wrong.

I'm buggered if I'll criticise them for things that aren't their responsibility though.

And I'll certainly not blame them for saying something they didn't say.

I hold this posture for all party's. "

Can you tell us all where the mystical 'protective ring' was around care homes? The government can't have it both ways. Boris said they didn't follow the guidelines, then his ministers say nobody knew what the guidelines were. Makes no sense.

The truth of it is, they knew they were totally unprepared for this virus. Boris tried to bluff it by saying we were well prepared, it was balls and he knew it. He thought we could ride it out. He took it that seriously that he shook hands with patients and caught the bloody thing. It wasn't by choice they let it care homes, they had no other choice. Years of underfunding the NHS, and the care sector (by both parties) created the perfect storm and exposed what we all knew. The NHS was given priority, and the care sector took the brunt purely because somebody had to lose.

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By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

But not facemasks, which was one of the fundemental problems.

If a massive machine like the NHS with all their gigantic buying power were struggling to source them, what chance did a 30 bed care home have..?"

It's funny, when the entire planet is bulk buying face masks people are surprised there's a shortage and that some people can't source them.

But at the same time, it's all the government's fault.

So blinded by hatred of a political hue they can't see common sense.....

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By *tingly ByronMan over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

It's a very very low, very cheap shot.

I'm happy to criticize the government for things they get wrong.

I'm buggered if I'll criticise them for things that aren't their responsibility though.

And I'll certainly not blame them for saying something they didn't say.

I hold this posture for all party's.

You seem to be of the opinion that Boris Johnson is the expert in virology and is the one who makes all the decisions, based on his expertise.

Surprise surprise, he's not.

He takes his advice from experts in their field, from the WHO (IMHO a body who carry part responsibility for where we are) and acts on that advice, and many other fields of expertise.

In the case of a brand new virus, such as Covid 19, everyone was in the dark to a certain degree.

The advice constantly changed as more became known, which is right and proper.

Of course the NHS took the brunt of it. Who else would have, their role is to look after the health of the tax paying public. (And a few that don't pay tax)

The duty of care in privately owned care homes is the responsibility of the care home owners.

To say "someone had to lose" is naive and disingenuous. It's not a competion, it never has been.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

It's a very very low, very cheap shot.

I'm happy to criticize the government for things they get wrong.

I'm buggered if I'll criticise them for things that aren't their responsibility though.

And I'll certainly not blame them for saying something they didn't say.

I hold this posture for all party's.

You seem to be of the opinion that Boris Johnson is the expert in virology and is the one who makes all the decisions, based on his expertise.

Surprise surprise, he's not.

He takes his advice from experts in their field, from the WHO (IMHO a body who carry part responsibility for where we are) and acts on that advice, and many other fields of expertise.

In the case of a brand new virus, such as Covid 19, everyone was in the dark to a certain degree.

The advice constantly changed as more became known, which is right and proper.

Of course the NHS took the brunt of it. Who else would have, their role is to look after the health of the tax paying public. (And a few that don't pay tax)

The duty of care in privately owned care homes is the responsibility of the care home owners.

To say "someone had to lose" is naive and disingenuous. It's not a competion, it never has been.

So, why was our 'science' so different from the one everybody else was following? He didn't listen very well.....experts saying 'don't shake hands' he literally does the opposite. The same man who tells everybody to use their common sense. It's a litany of cock ups. Surely you can see that??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

It's a very very low, very cheap shot.

I'm happy to criticize the government for things they get wrong.

I'm buggered if I'll criticise them for things that aren't their responsibility though.

And I'll certainly not blame them for saying something they didn't say.

I hold this posture for all party's.

You seem to be of the opinion that Boris Johnson is the expert in virology and is the one who makes all the decisions, based on his expertise.

Surprise surprise, he's not.

He takes his advice from experts in their field, from the WHO (IMHO a body who carry part responsibility for where we are) and acts on that advice, and many other fields of expertise.

In the case of a brand new virus, such as Covid 19, everyone was in the dark to a certain degree.

The advice constantly changed as more became known, which is right and proper.

Of course the NHS took the brunt of it. Who else would have, their role is to look after the health of the tax paying public. (And a few that don't pay tax)

The duty of care in privately owned care homes is the responsibility of the care home owners.

To say "someone had to lose" is naive and disingenuous. It's not a competion, it never has been.

If you don't think a sector was given over to save another, I'm afraid you are naive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do some people have such an issue with criticism of the government? We don't live in a dictatorship.

When it's something the government are responsible for, I'll criticise them.

Why are some people so blind they can't see where responsibility lies.

Provision of PPE in privately owned care homes is the responsibility of the care home owner. It's nothing to do with government.

I think we all know the answer.

This has bugger all to do with right and wrong, it's political point scoring against the enemy.

Where have I said its the governments fault?

And you are probably assuming I'm a Labour voter

I just wondered when we live in a democracy, why people still take offence at the public criticising the government. I couldn't care less what political party that government are.

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