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No more clapping, pay their worth
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"What will the tax increase look like?" Depends what bracket your in? The government could just add extra tax to the wealthy? What do you think? | |||
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"We have several members of the family in the profession and there are quite a few of their colleagues in general nursing, midwifery and mental health saying that they will go as soon as they can.. So a pay review and maybe look at the bursary scheme etc might be an idea.. Perhaps an independent pay review body that the government scrapped for most public sector but retained for themselves might be another idea.. " The bursary has been revised and starts back up in September. | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage?" What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like?" Now is the time to increase the wages as we owe billions. What's another couple of billion to put things right? | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. " So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others?" I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! " Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? | |||
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" For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! " My daughter would tell you the way forward is better management and stop the cash hemorrhaging from the departments. | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! " How are we "stealing nurses"? Do you mean that the NHS is actually a more attractive employer and those nurses would prefer to live in the UK? What do you say to those NHS staff that decide to relocate to, say, Australia? Is Australia "stealing" them? | |||
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" For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! My daughter would tell you the way forward is better management and stop the cash hemorrhaging from the departments." I hear this all the time from hospital staff. It also worries me that even if the staff get a good offer the unions will be bloody minded. | |||
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"https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-events/news/uk-rcn-calls-on-government-for-immediate-nhs-pay-discussions-030720 The RCN and other unions want to open early discussions on a payrise for NHS staff, highlighting the dedication seen throughout the pandemic. Not only a reward, but pay to retain those who want to leave and attract others to the copious vacancies with this grand institution. " Not sure o this one. I personally fought in the Falklands, did two tours in Ireland, Fought again first Gulf war and served with the UN in Croatia, mostly just on basic forces pay and all this during the cold war.I signed up took the queens shilling and when asked to go above and beyond did so as part of my engagement in HMAF. So should NHS receive e tea no at for there job I'm of a mind no at this point Bearing in mind I spent 10 days in Durham ICU start of April this year with covid19, and survived due to fantastic care and professional dedication !!! | |||
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"Totally agree that we must pay higher salaries to medical and social care staff, as well as many other key workers. We should probably be investing heavily in to social care now, this epidemic has shown our system is a very poor standard, hurt by 10 years of greater cutbacks pushed by the current lot in power. Better investments than throwing £millions for chief execs to get multimillion pounds bonuses whilst people die and live in poverty, as they make them redundant after taking furlough money etc" Better than minimum wage for social care staff would bd a start | |||
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"We have several members of the family in the profession and there are quite a few of their colleagues in general nursing, midwifery and mental health saying that they will go as soon as they can.. So a pay review and maybe look at the bursary scheme etc might be an idea.. Perhaps an independent pay review body that the government scrapped for most public sector but retained for themselves might be another idea.. " Let’s do a swap let the NHS get a proper pay review and folk can clap for the MP’s next time instead .   | |||
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"Totally agree that we must pay higher salaries to medical and social care staff, as well as many other key workers. We should probably be investing heavily in to social care now, this epidemic has shown our system is a very poor standard, hurt by 10 years of greater cutbacks pushed by the current lot in power. Better investments than throwing £millions for chief execs to get multimillion pounds bonuses whilst people die and live in poverty, as they make them redundant after taking furlough money etc Better than minimum wage for social care staff would bd a start" Most care homes are private and if the council have to use them they do everything to push the price down, so how can you raise the wage? | |||
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"Totally agree that we must pay higher salaries to medical and social care staff, as well as many other key workers. We should probably be investing heavily in to social care now, this epidemic has shown our system is a very poor standard, hurt by 10 years of greater cutbacks pushed by the current lot in power. Better investments than throwing £millions for chief execs to get multimillion pounds bonuses whilst people die and live in poverty, as they make them redundant after taking furlough money etc Better than minimum wage for social care staff would bd a startMost care homes are private and if the council have to use them they do everything to push the price down, so how can you raise the wage?" Do you have any idea what care homes charge per week? | |||
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"Totally agree that we must pay higher salaries to medical and social care staff, as well as many other key workers. We should probably be investing heavily in to social care now, this epidemic has shown our system is a very poor standard, hurt by 10 years of greater cutbacks pushed by the current lot in power. Better investments than throwing £millions for chief execs to get multimillion pounds bonuses whilst people die and live in poverty, as they make them redundant after taking furlough money etc Better than minimum wage for social care staff would bd a startMost care homes are private and if the council have to use them they do everything to push the price down, so how can you raise the wage? Do you have any idea what care homes charge per week?" It varies ..all are different | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ?" Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. " I didnt say they did ! | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. I didnt say they did ! " Doctors are nurses train knowing what the wage will be . | |||
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"We have several members of the family in the profession and there are quite a few of their colleagues in general nursing, midwifery and mental health saying that they will go as soon as they can.. So a pay review and maybe look at the bursary scheme etc might be an idea.. Perhaps an independent pay review body that the government scrapped for most public sector but retained for themselves might be another idea.. Let’s do a swap let the NHS get a proper pay review and folk can clap for the MP’s next time instead . "I'm up for that  | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. I didnt say they did ! " Well let's not get onto the subject of a vocation. | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. I didnt say they did ! Doctors are nurses train knowing what the wage will be ." And hoping it improves or go into the private sector, or go abroad. | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! How are we "stealing nurses"? Do you mean that the NHS is actually a more attractive employer and those nurses would prefer to live in the UK? What do you say to those NHS staff that decide to relocate to, say, Australia? Is Australia "stealing" them? " Yes, yes and yes  | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. I didnt say they did ! Doctors are nurses train knowing what the wage will be . And hoping it improves or go into the private sector, or go abroad. " Isnt that a vocation? Knowing the information but joining regardless because they want to do the job. Why train for years then hope the wage increases ? | |||
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" For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! My daughter would tell you the way forward is better management and stop the cash hemorrhaging from the departments.I hear this all the time from hospital staff. It also worries me that even if the staff get a good offer the unions will be bloody minded." Innovations internally and externally save money. Staff coming up with solutions. Looking at the bigger picture. Paying attention to research (eg cheaper to give patients free nicotine therapy to quit smoking than pay for smoking related illnesses). These are all being done. | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. I didnt say they did ! Doctors are nurses train knowing what the wage will be . And hoping it improves or go into the private sector, or go abroad. Isnt that a vocation? Knowing the information but joining regardless because they want to do the job. Why train for years then hope the wage increases ? " I don't think it is about the wages overall, it's more complicated than that. I don't believe when you enter a profession at 18 you think about money, maybe young people do now. I did general nurse training, I enjoyed it and,in the main enjoyed my career. But, you still need to live, the job takes its toll and the result is people leave. | |||
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"The pay rise normally should be 3% annually and the government already screws the NHS on that. They deserved so much more before the pandemic and I hope they get treated with the respect and payrise they should have had years ago." It would be good if the wage rises matched the losses that have occurred over the past 10 years. IE be the wage equivalent to the value of the wage 10 years ago. I'm sure I read that a band 5 nurse has lost the equivalent of 6 grand AND has gone from a nqn at diploma level to degree level. | |||
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"Extra ( typo )" Who's asking for extra? Read my previous post about wage losses. | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. I didnt say they did ! Doctors are nurses train knowing what the wage will be . And hoping it improves or go into the private sector, or go abroad. Isnt that a vocation? Knowing the information but joining regardless because they want to do the job. Why train for years then hope the wage increases ? I don't think it is about the wages overall, it's more complicated than that. I don't believe when you enter a profession at 18 you think about money, maybe young people do now. I did general nurse training, I enjoyed it and,in the main enjoyed my career. But, you still need to live, the job takes its toll and the result is people leave." The OP thinks it's about money . | |||
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"Yes pay them more asap because people soon forget when crisis is over one here already worried about tax increase typical gutless working class x" I'm working class! Who believes in paying folk what they are worth! Goes without saying, NHS should be! | |||
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"The thought of paying more tax to pay people that choose to work in a difficult profession is not acceptable to me.....i have private healthcare, we all should if we work and release some of the pressure off the NHS...paying the staff more money doesnt actually help....in fact..the opposite, money that could be spent on equipment, training and extra staff numbers would be sucked up with higher wages....they dont earn too badly really and id like to think they do it for the good they do not for the money...or they would of trained in something that paid more and has lower risk potential.." I agree with this. ^ | |||
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"I left nursing in February this year after 35yrs in the NHS. Nothing could attract me back to full time nursing - its exhausting both mentally and physically. " Well I'm sure you didn't enter the profession for the money  . | |||
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"People that have jobs should just be gratefull they have jobs right now in my opinion. Suicides and homeless numbers are already starting to rise due to people losing thier jobs. " I know many who have gone into work shit scared they or their family is going to be affected... But it's all OK cos it's a vocation  | |||
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"People that have jobs should just be gratefull they have jobs right now in my opinion. Suicides and homeless numbers are already starting to rise due to people losing thier jobs. I know many who have gone into work shit scared they or their family is going to be affected... But it's all OK cos it's a vocation "I put family first everytime , over work over everything. (Even money ! ) They didnt have to go into a situation they were not comfortable with ! | |||
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"I left nursing in February this year after 35yrs in the NHS. Nothing could attract me back to full time nursing - its exhausting both mentally and physically. Well I'm sure you didn't enter the profession for the money . "I sure didn't, opportunities were not like they are now. I'm lucky, I stayed in the old pension scheme and ended in a high grade role. I could retire at 55 from the nhs, this is no longer available. I have another part time job. | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. I didnt say they did ! Doctors are nurses train knowing what the wage will be . And hoping it improves or go into the private sector, or go abroad. Isnt that a vocation? Knowing the information but joining regardless because they want to do the job. Why train for years then hope the wage increases ? I don't think it is about the wages overall, it's more complicated than that. I don't believe when you enter a profession at 18 you think about money, maybe young people do now. I did general nurse training, I enjoyed it and,in the main enjoyed my career. But, you still need to live, the job takes its toll and the result is people leave." And the pressures that are continuously put on nurses is always increasing. I met a manager of a carpet shop £30,000 a year. No stress. Not necessary to know how to save live, or to communicate to doctors, prioritising who to save... NQN on £22,000. Not spending an extra hour on top of a 12 hour shift to ensure files, digital and otherwise are updated (work not recorded = work not done). | |||
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"The thought of paying more tax to pay people that choose to work in a difficult profession is not acceptable to me.....i have private healthcare, we all should if we work and release some of the pressure off the NHS...paying the staff more money doesnt actually help....in fact..the opposite, money that could be spent on equipment, training and extra staff numbers would be sucked up with higher wages....they dont earn too badly really and id like to think they do it for the good they do not for the money...or they would of trained in something that paid more and has lower risk potential.." So because they care for others, they should just suck it up buttercup, having lost around 6 grand in wages over the last 10 years. Oh and do more than one person's job 99% of the time? | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I cannot currently work so that's a moot point. When I do it will be back in the NHS. Shop workers not happy with their lot can join unions and use them to try increase their pay. I mentioned aldi because aldi pay more for less educated people than the NHS and pay more for the "same" education (eg degrees) than the NHS. But I assume they are the exception to the rule. The NHS is Not governed by supply and demand, if it was it would definitely put up wages. For over 5 years there has been a figure of over 40,000 nursing vacancies in England alone. For the past 20 odd years we have been stealing trained nurses from other countries. Irrelevant to the position brexit puts us in, this is now unethical because there is a WORLD shortage of nurses. Worldwide govts need to make the profession more attractive! Are you saying that people join the medical profession for the money ? Nurses, doctors, cleaners, none do voluntary work. I didnt say they did ! Doctors are nurses train knowing what the wage will be . And hoping it improves or go into the private sector, or go abroad. Isnt that a vocation? Knowing the information but joining regardless because they want to do the job. Why train for years then hope the wage increases ? I don't think it is about the wages overall, it's more complicated than that. I don't believe when you enter a profession at 18 you think about money, maybe young people do now. I did general nurse training, I enjoyed it and,in the main enjoyed my career. But, you still need to live, the job takes its toll and the result is people leave. The OP thinks it's about money ." | |||
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"People that have jobs should just be gratefull they have jobs right now in my opinion. Suicides and homeless numbers are already starting to rise due to people losing thier jobs. I know many who have gone into work shit scared they or their family is going to be affected... But it's all OK cos it's a vocation
I put family first everytime , over work over everything.
(Even money ! )
They didnt have to go into a situation they were not comfortable with !"They didn't ask for what has effectively been a wage cut for the past 10 years. | |||
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"The thought of paying more tax to pay people that choose to work in a difficult profession is not acceptable to me.....i have private healthcare, we all should if we work and release some of the pressure off the NHS...paying the staff more money doesnt actually help....in fact..the opposite, money that could be spent on equipment, training and extra staff numbers would be sucked up with higher wages....they dont earn too badly really and id like to think they do it for the good they do not for the money...or they would of trained in something that paid more and has lower risk potential.." Alot of people in this country work their butts off, and still struggle to feed their children Saying everyone should have private healthcare is naive, at best | |||
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"People that have jobs should just be gratefull they have jobs right now in my opinion. Suicides and homeless numbers are already starting to rise due to people losing thier jobs. I know many who have gone into work shit scared they or their family is going to be affected... But it's all OK cos it's a vocation "And my husband is one of those people. He isnt asking for more money though. | |||
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"What a capitalist you turned out to be.....the jam eton riffels ......maybe you might like the virus i had it for a few months...you might change your attitude...but doubt it......we all pay national insurance towards healthcare...and good for you if you get healthcare some people arnt that fortunate to be able to afford it.....Its tough out there for many these days....and a bigger divide...but remember higher up the ladder the bigger tumble it it all goes wrong....im for fairness...something thats lacking in these times respect another thing thats missing too work hard play hard but dont trample on those that do the vacations we all need as support....i bet many have wiped your arse in the past" If you're responding to someone, you should reply and quote  | |||
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"People that have jobs should just be gratefull they have jobs right now in my opinion. Suicides and homeless numbers are already starting to rise due to people losing thier jobs. I know many who have gone into work shit scared they or their family is going to be affected... But it's all OK cos it's a vocation
And my husband is one of those people. He isnt asking for more money though."I'm sure he wouldn't say no to a wage rise. | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. " Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! | |||
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"People that have jobs should just be gratefull they have jobs right now in my opinion. Suicides and homeless numbers are already starting to rise due to people losing thier jobs. I know many who have gone into work shit scared they or their family is going to be affected... But it's all OK cos it's a vocation
And my husband is one of those people. He isnt asking for more money though.
I'm sure he wouldn't say no to a wage rise. "What has that got to do with anything? Hes not the one asking for more money. You are. | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! " What you mean is that you cannot respond to the questions in any meaningful way. As affect me directly, it'll be some time. Affect friends and ex-colleagues? Absolutely. Sorry, not sorry, that I care for both sides of the NHS bed - patients AND staff. | |||
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"People that have jobs should just be gratefull they have jobs right now in my opinion. Suicides and homeless numbers are already starting to rise due to people losing thier jobs. I know many who have gone into work shit scared they or their family is going to be affected... But it's all OK cos it's a vocation
And my husband is one of those people. He isnt asking for more money though.
I'm sure he wouldn't say no to a wage rise.
What has that got to do with anything? Hes not the one asking for more money. You are."Actually the RCN is. I simply agree. | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! What you mean is that you cannot respond to the questions in any meaningful way. As affect me directly, it'll be some time. Affect friends and ex-colleagues? Absolutely. Sorry, not sorry, that I care for both sides of the NHS bed - patients AND staff. " I didnt say i didnt care ... i care .. but im blowed if i will discuss my situation with someone who has tunnel vision and only wants to focus on what you think is right without wanting to widen your thoughts towards others who would like a wage increase for the valuable work they do ! | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! What you mean is that you cannot respond to the questions in any meaningful way. As affect me directly, it'll be some time. Affect friends and ex-colleagues? Absolutely. Sorry, not sorry, that I care for both sides of the NHS bed - patients AND staff. I didnt say i didnt care ... i care .. but im blowed if i will discuss my situation with someone who has tunnel vision and only wants to focus on what you think is right without wanting to widen your thoughts towards others who would like a wage increase for the valuable work they do ! " The subject matter is about the RCN (and other unions) discussing pay rises with the govt for NHS staff. Start your own thread if you're outside this sector. There is potential for a positive knock on effect for council support workers/social care, since health and social care is under one govt dept now. This may in turn prove positive to the private sector/ agencies. In the meantime, join a union if you're not in one. | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! " You sound very anti NHS. You say your family comes first. Where any of those born in NHS hospitals? Do they receive NHS care. Why are you so anti NHS? | |||
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"As the government managed to find £1.57bn to support 'culture' for the minority then finding money for frontline NHS staff who care for the majority shouldn't be a difficult moral decision. Should it..? "But the whole point of this support is to help protect jobs in a sector that most of us have enjoyed (you've never been to a live music event?) and not simply to pay more to those who already have jobs By extension would you have preferred that money spent on furlough had simply been directed into paying NHS frontline staff more? | |||
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"https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-events/news/uk-rcn-calls-on-government-for-immediate-nhs-pay-discussions-030720 The RCN and other unions want to open early discussions on a payrise for NHS staff, highlighting the dedication seen throughout the pandemic. Not only a reward, but pay to retain those who want to leave and attract others to the copious vacancies with this grand institution. Not sure o this one. I personally fought in the Falklands, did two tours in Ireland, Fought again first Gulf war and served with the UN in Croatia, mostly just on basic forces pay and all this during the cold war.I signed up took the queens shilling and when asked to go above and beyond did so as part of my engagement in HMAF. So should NHS receive e tea no at for there job I'm of a mind no at this point Bearing in mind I spent 10 days in Durham ICU start of April this year with covid19, and survived due to fantastic care and professional dedication !!!" Faulklands was 82 your 54? You went to war at 16? | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! What you mean is that you cannot respond to the questions in any meaningful way. As affect me directly, it'll be some time. Affect friends and ex-colleagues? Absolutely. Sorry, not sorry, that I care for both sides of the NHS bed - patients AND staff. I didnt say i didnt care ... i care .. but im blowed if i will discuss my situation with someone who has tunnel vision and only wants to focus on what you think is right without wanting to widen your thoughts towards others who would like a wage increase for the valuable work they do ! The subject matter is about the RCN (and other unions) discussing pay rises with the govt for NHS staff. Start your own thread if you're outside this sector. There is potential for a positive knock on effect for council support workers/social care, since health and social care is under one govt dept now. This may in turn prove positive to the private sector/ agencies. In the meantime, join a union if you're not in one. " We all have a major interest in the public sector as we all benefit from it but we also all pay for it I can choose not to shop in (say) Tesco, but I can't choose not to pay income tax, VAT or Council Tax | |||
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"A pay rise for which parts of the NHS? Most of the investment the NHS has received has been spunked up the wall in consultancy fees and additional layers of management. The NHS needs to get its own house in order before they get the begging bowl out... Then I'm all for increase wages especially those at the bottom of the pole. What does a hospital porter earn? There also many well paid senior postions in the NHS including nursing positions. None of this factors in the NHS has one of, if not the best civil service pension too And OP pretty much ever single sector in the UK has seen relative wages decrease since 2010 You are asking how many time mnw has increased... What about the mnw workers who worked through the lockdown. Dealing with a national pandemic wasn't part of the Tesco contract. However its an accepted albeit less likely risk for a health worker. " I have stated NHS staff. I'm also well aware it's the junior doctors an band 5 and below that should particularly benefit from an increase. As for pandemics, I don't think health care staff expect this (they may now though). As for comparing other key workers, they can get their unions to speak for them. | |||
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"As the government managed to find £1.57bn to support 'culture' for the minority then finding money for frontline NHS staff who care for the majority shouldn't be a difficult moral decision. Should it..?
But the whole point of this support is to help protect jobs in a sector that most of us have enjoyed (you've never been to a live music event?) and not simply to pay more to those who already have jobs
By extension would you have preferred that money spent on furlough had simply been directed into paying NHS frontline staff more?"Many of us cannot afford to go to a live music event. | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! What you mean is that you cannot respond to the questions in any meaningful way. As affect me directly, it'll be some time. Affect friends and ex-colleagues? Absolutely. Sorry, not sorry, that I care for both sides of the NHS bed - patients AND staff. I didnt say i didnt care ... i care .. but im blowed if i will discuss my situation with someone who has tunnel vision and only wants to focus on what you think is right without wanting to widen your thoughts towards others who would like a wage increase for the valuable work they do ! The subject matter is about the RCN (and other unions) discussing pay rises with the govt for NHS staff. Start your own thread if you're outside this sector. There is potential for a positive knock on effect for council support workers/social care, since health and social care is under one govt dept now. This may in turn prove positive to the private sector/ agencies. In the meantime, join a union if you're not in one. We all have a major interest in the public sector as we all benefit from it but we also all pay for it I can choose not to shop in (say) Tesco, but I can't choose not to pay income tax, VAT or Council Tax" We all pay for the govt, but that doesn't stop them getting 11% pay rises (I know of it happening once ). | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! You sound very anti NHS. You say your family comes first. Where any of those born in NHS hospitals? Do they receive NHS care. Why are you so anti NHS?" On a personal note I should be. If it wasn't for Malta healthcare, I'd not be here advocating for staff and patients | |||
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"A pay rise for which parts of the NHS? Most of the investment the NHS has received has been spunked up the wall in consultancy fees and additional layers of management. The NHS needs to get its own house in order before they get the begging bowl out... Then I'm all for increase wages especially those at the bottom of the pole. What does a hospital porter earn? There also many well paid senior postions in the NHS including nursing positions. None of this factors in the NHS has one of, if not the best civil service pension too And OP pretty much ever single sector in the UK has seen relative wages decrease since 2010 You are asking how many time mnw has increased... What about the mnw workers who worked through the lockdown. Dealing with a national pandemic wasn't part of the Tesco contract. However its an accepted albeit less likely risk for a health worker. I have stated NHS staff. I'm also well aware it's the junior doctors an band 5 and below that should particularly benefit from an increase. As for pandemics, I don't think health care staff expect this (they may now though). As for comparing other key workers, they can get their unions to speak for them. " All NHS staff...pay rise including managers who have literally had no contact with the virus or provided any healthcare and sat in an office .... Fuck that! Health workers occupation means their conditions or work include pandemics and generally any major catastrophic medical event. Its like a solider asking why they have to guard a building its not a warzone but its part of their occupation Or a firefighter dealing with a car crash... Its not a fire but part of their occupation. Most mnw workers do so for private companies they do not work in a civil capacity and have little or no union representation. Look at the contracts sainsbury as a and Tesco forced on their existing staff pre covid. They where told sign or leave. The NHS have worked through tough conditions... They have done their job well but that's exactly what they have done... Their job. Additional vacation as other have suggested seems a good compromise all round. All though doing your job shouldn't require a bonus Why should tax payers pay a compounded salary increase for years to come based on this event. There are alot of underpaid civil service jobs. They all do great work but the NHS is not alone and compared to most departments, is remunerated better. | |||
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"The thought of paying more tax to pay people that choose to work in a difficult profession is not acceptable to me.....i have private healthcare, we all should if we work and release some of the pressure off the NHS...paying the staff more money doesnt actually help....in fact..the opposite, money that could be spent on equipment, training and extra staff numbers would be sucked up with higher wages....they dont earn too badly really and id like to think they do it for the good they do not for the money...or they would of trained in something that paid more and has lower risk potential.." Unreal | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. " Public sector wages have barely risen at all in the last 10 years. | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! What you mean is that you cannot respond to the questions in any meaningful way. As affect me directly, it'll be some time. Affect friends and ex-colleagues? Absolutely. Sorry, not sorry, that I care for both sides of the NHS bed - patients AND staff. I didnt say i didnt care ... i care .. but im blowed if i will discuss my situation with someone who has tunnel vision and only wants to focus on what you think is right without wanting to widen your thoughts towards others who would like a wage increase for the valuable work they do ! The subject matter is about the RCN (and other unions) discussing pay rises with the govt for NHS staff. Start your own thread if you're outside this sector. There is potential for a positive knock on effect for council support workers/social care, since health and social care is under one govt dept now. This may in turn prove positive to the private sector/ agencies. In the meantime, join a union if you're not in one. We all have a major interest in the public sector as we all benefit from it but we also all pay for it I can choose not to shop in (say) Tesco, but I can't choose not to pay income tax, VAT or Council Tax We all pay for the govt, but that doesn't stop them getting 11% pay rises (I know of it happening once ). "Who is "them"? I'm referring to the entire public sector. The NHS is Europe's largest employer, but how about other public services including the police, fire & rescue, local authority staff?? | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Public sector wages have barely risen at all in the last 10 years." Many in the private sector have had little or any increase too, and some have had real terms cuts too There are few groups who have done universally well, public or private | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others?" I nearly ended up on the bin lorries (or freighters as they're called: such grandiose wording), but for an agency and minimum wage. No security and not enough to live on, not good. Agency staff, don't always get taken on after 3 months. I'm speaking from my own experience here. | |||
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Notice how tax havens pull in the money...? | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! What you mean is that you cannot respond to the questions in any meaningful way. As affect me directly, it'll be some time. Affect friends and ex-colleagues? Absolutely. Sorry, not sorry, that I care for both sides of the NHS bed - patients AND staff. I didnt say i didnt care ... i care .. but im blowed if i will discuss my situation with someone who has tunnel vision and only wants to focus on what you think is right without wanting to widen your thoughts towards others who would like a wage increase for the valuable work they do ! The subject matter is about the RCN (and other unions) discussing pay rises with the govt for NHS staff. Start your own thread if you're outside this sector. There is potential for a positive knock on effect for council support workers/social care, since health and social care is under one govt dept now. This may in turn prove positive to the private sector/ agencies. In the meantime, join a union if you're not in one. We all have a major interest in the public sector as we all benefit from it but we also all pay for it I can choose not to shop in (say) Tesco, but I can't choose not to pay income tax, VAT or Council Tax We all pay for the govt, but that doesn't stop them getting 11% pay rises (I know of it happening once ).
Who is "them"? I'm referring to the entire public sector. The NHS is Europe's largest employer, but how about other public services including the police, fire & rescue, local authority staff??"Them = govt = MPs What about the other public sectors? They can get their unions to work for them! | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Public sector wages have barely risen at all in the last 10 years. Many in the private sector have had little or any increase too, and some have had real terms cuts too There are few groups who have done universally well, public or private " Some people have.The gap between richer and poorer has never been wider. | |||
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"Why not have three taxbands? 0% for those on less than £20k 20% for those up to £50k 30% for the highest earners, setting sky high tax rates just encourages tax dodging/avoidance schemes " Because I could be 1p a year short of £20K and then get a 1p a year payrise which would cost me £4k... | |||
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"https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-events/news/uk-rcn-calls-on-government-for-immediate-nhs-pay-discussions-030720 The RCN and other unions want to open early discussions on a payrise for NHS staff, highlighting the dedication seen throughout the pandemic. Not only a reward, but pay to retain those who want to leave and attract others to the copious vacancies with this grand institution. " I have said this from the off. Also better wages for carers. Where would the health service be without them | |||
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"Why not have three taxbands? 0% for those on less than £20k 20% for those up to £50k 30% for the highest earners, setting sky high tax rates just encourages tax dodging/avoidance schemes Because I could be 1p a year short of £20K and then get a 1p a year payrise which would cost me £4k..." Thats not how tax banding works... Allowances are aggregated and tiered. Im grateful for all the health care workers in this thread but more grateful they found their calling was not in finance. Expect sunak to shake up N.I and tax banding imminently those over earning over £100k are probably gonna be hit the most | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? What about them? That is down to their employers, not the government. Aldi pay well and were the first locally to protect their staff with screens. So That's just tough for those people that work for any retailer other than Aldi is it then? How about refuse collectors? Many of them only earn the NMW too The labour market including the NHS is ultimately governed by supply and demand surely? Or would you be willing to work for a lot less than you do currently to increase the pay of others? I nearly ended up on the bin lorries (or freighters as they're called: such grandiose wording), but for an agency and minimum wage. No security and not enough to live on, not good. Agency staff, don't always get taken on after 3 months. I'm speaking from my own experience here." It is very tough even as an employee I had 18 months working for one of The largest operators, albeit not on the bins themselves | |||
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"Full Facts website has stated the average nurses pay has fallen 7.4% compared to 2010 wage. How many times has the nmw gone up in that time? How many other sectors have lost that amount? How many other sectors have professionals going to food banks? Would any of you take a wage cut to before 2010? It's not just about workers and their exposure to the virus, that has simply exposed the bravery of those on the front line and sacrifices they have made. Oh stop complaining... You are solely focussed on the NHS because it affects you directly. Look at the wider picture! What you mean is that you cannot respond to the questions in any meaningful way. As affect me directly, it'll be some time. Affect friends and ex-colleagues? Absolutely. Sorry, not sorry, that I care for both sides of the NHS bed - patients AND staff. I didnt say i didnt care ... i care .. but im blowed if i will discuss my situation with someone who has tunnel vision and only wants to focus on what you think is right without wanting to widen your thoughts towards others who would like a wage increase for the valuable work they do ! The subject matter is about the RCN (and other unions) discussing pay rises with the govt for NHS staff. Start your own thread if you're outside this sector. There is potential for a positive knock on effect for council support workers/social care, since health and social care is under one govt dept now. This may in turn prove positive to the private sector/ agencies. In the meantime, join a union if you're not in one. We all have a major interest in the public sector as we all benefit from it but we also all pay for it I can choose not to shop in (say) Tesco, but I can't choose not to pay income tax, VAT or Council Tax We all pay for the govt, but that doesn't stop them getting 11% pay rises (I know of it happening once ).
Who is "them"? I'm referring to the entire public sector. The NHS is Europe's largest employer, but how about other public services including the police, fire & rescue, local authority staff??
Them = govt = MPs
What about the other public sectors? They can get their unions to work for them! "Not all can have union representation - the armed forces for example. The police force doesn't have a traditional trade union either The government is much wider than just MPs! It includes large numbers of civil servants both at a national and a local level, many of whom are not highly paid or in receipt of large increases One of my friends works in an admin role for the Ministry of Justice and she had to take a 3 year pay freeze 5 years ago | |||
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"We have several members of the family in the profession and there are quite a few of their colleagues in general nursing, midwifery and mental health saying that they will go as soon as they can.. So a pay review and maybe look at the bursary scheme etc might be an idea.. Perhaps an independent pay review body that the government scrapped for most public sector but retained for themselves might be another idea.. The bursary has been revised and starts back up in September. " Good and cheers.. | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like?" I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase. | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase." Sure that will over less than 1%. While they are there they should stop overseas aid, contributions to WHO (as the biggest contributor) and lower benefits. That may cover a pay rise for some. Then hike taxes so they and everyone else pays more in. | |||
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"A pay rise for which parts of the NHS? Most of the investment the NHS has received has been spunked up the wall in consultancy fees and additional layers of management. The NHS needs to get its own house in order before they get the begging bowl out... Then I'm all for increase wages especially those at the bottom of the pole. What does a hospital porter earn? There also many well paid senior postions in the NHS including nursing positions. None of this factors in the NHS has one of, if not the best civil service pension too And OP pretty much ever single sector in the UK has seen relative wages decrease since 2010 You are asking how many time mnw has increased... What about the mnw workers who worked through the lockdown. Dealing with a national pandemic wasn't part of the Tesco contract. However its an accepted albeit less likely risk for a health worker. I have stated NHS staff. I'm also well aware it's the junior doctors an band 5 and below that should particularly benefit from an increase. As for pandemics, I don't think health care staff expect this (they may now though). As for comparing other key workers, they can get their unions to speak for them. All NHS staff...pay rise including managers who have literally had no contact with the virus or provided any healthcare and sat in an office .... Fuck that! Health workers occupation means their conditions or work include pandemics and generally any major catastrophic medical event. Its like a solider asking why they have to guard a building its not a warzone but its part of their occupation Or a firefighter dealing with a car crash... Its not a fire but part of their occupation. Most mnw workers do so for private companies they do not work in a civil capacity and have little or no union representation. Look at the contracts sainsbury as a and Tesco forced on their existing staff pre covid. They where told sign or leave. The NHS have worked through tough conditions... They have done their job well but that's exactly what they have done... Their job. Additional vacation as other have suggested seems a good compromise all round. All though doing your job shouldn't require a bonus Why should tax payers pay a compounded salary increase for years to come based on this event. There are alot of underpaid civil service jobs. They all do great work but the NHS is not alone and compared to most departments, is remunerated better. " This 100% - GPs get an average salary of £90,000pa. I’ve been trying to get an appointment throughout the pandemic for the same issue. I’ve phoned repeatedly- particularly when I’ve been in huge amounts of pain- to the point where I’ve been tempted to go to A&E. I never get a call back. Last week I got a TEXT!!! A text from the GP saying go to the chemist and get some painkillers. Can’t even be bothered with the courtesy of a phone call. So yeah- I’m not clapping for the NHS and I don’t support a universal pay rise for the NHS as I’ve now had to go private. And I’ve lost 2/3 of my salary because of the pandemic - i can’t really afford to go private right now. I’m just sick of being ignored by the NHS. | |||
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"Wow... just wow. The subtext of this thread confirms what I predicted would happen maybe 2 mths ago... I was sceptical of the ‘clapping for the NHS’ when it started as 1. I felt it was divisive, and 2. Didn’t fully recognise and acknowledge the efforts of so many other sectors all working above and beyond what was expected to keep this crisis contained and keep the country going. As a RN of 30 yrs, specialised in 2 specialties (at degree and masters level), I do feel that nurses pay needs addressing... the issue of what constitutes ‘Value’ is a complex multilayered issue that just cannot be argued in a sentence. So much of what we do requires using complex information, analysing it and translating that into meaningful actions that are centred around improving a patients condition, often before it is noticed by any other members of the team. I would say that you have to experience it first hand to understand a nurses true value. Because someone joins a (ANY) profession that has had low pay, does it mean that because they have a love or passion to excel in that profession that they should simply lay back and not ask or expect improved wages or better conditions? I see some people say.. ‘well, that’s their job’... you could say that about ANY job... so what do we do? .... don’t bother saying ‘thank you’ to a waiter or checkout person because ‘that’s their job’? .... don’t bother with giving medals for operational tours for service personnel because ‘that’s their job’?.... scrap the honours system because ‘that’s their job’ (or at least their choice to do well in that job) My experience during 30 yrs of nursing is that the public, by and large, see the profession as a ‘cinderalla’ profession... when we’re good we’re very good.. when we’re bad we’re all evil... I knew when the clapping started that it wouldn’t be long before we came in for a bashing. I can remember talking to a friend who worked at a dockyard and talked about some of the issues I faced as a fairly senior nurse... the chap was in disbelief and said that it would never happen where he worked because people would just walk.. I’ll leave this post with one last comment...when you cherish something or someone, never abuse them to the point that they stop caring... you might just find that you lose the very thing that you cherished" Great thoughtful post | |||
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"https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-events/news/uk-rcn-calls-on-government-for-immediate-nhs-pay-discussions-030720 The RCN and other unions want to open early discussions on a payrise for NHS staff, highlighting the dedication seen throughout the pandemic. Not only a reward, but pay to retain those who want to leave and attract others to the copious vacancies with this grand institution. " Absolutely, but are you willing to have an increase in income tax to help fund it ? As we've seen before other services have been cut to the bone "Pay them out if politicians wages" is a nice thought but really ??? Realistically, how much, who decides how much ? Do private sector deserve a pay raise as they have also lost out since 2010 ? What about all the other public service workers ? Are they to get more ? Yes, absolutely the NHS have been fantastic during the pandemic bit doing exactly what they signed up for and were trained to do. Devil's advocate ? | |||
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"Wow... just wow. The subtext of this thread confirms what I predicted would happen maybe 2 mths ago... I was sceptical of the ‘clapping for the NHS’ when it started as 1. I felt it was divisive, and 2. Didn’t fully recognise and acknowledge the efforts of so many other sectors all working above and beyond what was expected to keep this crisis contained and keep the country going. As a RN of 30 yrs, specialised in 2 specialties (at degree and masters level), I do feel that nurses pay needs addressing... the issue of what constitutes ‘Value’ is a complex multilayered issue that just cannot be argued in a sentence. So much of what we do requires using complex information, analysing it and translating that into meaningful actions that are centred around improving a patients condition, often before it is noticed by any other members of the team. I would say that you have to experience it first hand to understand a nurses true value. Because someone joins a (ANY) profession that has had low pay, does it mean that because they have a love or passion to excel in that profession that they should simply lay back and not ask or expect improved wages or better conditions? I see some people say.. ‘well, that’s their job’... you could say that about ANY job... so what do we do? .... don’t bother saying ‘thank you’ to a waiter or checkout person because ‘that’s their job’? .... don’t bother with giving medals for operational tours for service personnel because ‘that’s their job’?.... scrap the honours system because ‘that’s their job’ (or at least their choice to do well in that job) My experience during 30 yrs of nursing is that the public, by and large, see the profession as a ‘cinderalla’ profession... when we’re good we’re very good.. when we’re bad we’re all evil... I knew when the clapping started that it wouldn’t be long before we came in for a bashing. I can remember talking to a friend who worked at a dockyard and talked about some of the issues I faced as a fairly senior nurse... the chap was in disbelief and said that it would never happen where he worked because people would just walk.. I’ll leave this post with one last comment...when you cherish something or someone, never abuse them to the point that they stop caring... you might just find that you lose the very thing that you cherished" Extremely well expressed. | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax." No, no, no, no! Re private companies. It was trialled, it failed! | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase." 650 MPs, 1.5 million employed by NHS. Once you share every MPs 1.8% pay rise over the 2,300 NHS employees it’s only 60p each. Did you share Dianne Abbott’s math and economics teachers? | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase. 650 MPs, 1.5 million employed by NHS. Once you share every MPs 1.8% pay rise over the 2,300 NHS employees it’s only 60p each. Did you share Dianne Abbott’s math and economics teachers? "Or the Boris school of bullshit | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax. No, no, no, no! Re private companies. It was trialled, it failed!" When was it trialled and failed? I spent for 6 days in a privately run NHS ward and it was the treatment I’ve ever had. | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax. No, no, no, no! Re private companies. It was trialled, it failed! When was it trialled and failed? I spent for 6 days in a privately run NHS ward and it was the treatment I’ve ever had." *the best | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax. No, no, no, no! Re private companies. It was trialled, it failed! When was it trialled and failed? I spent for 6 days in a privately run NHS ward and it was the treatment I’ve ever had." An entire hospital. In Huntingdon, Cambs. Look it up. | |||
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"Wow... just wow. The subtext of this thread confirms what I predicted would happen maybe 2 mths ago... I was sceptical of the ‘clapping for the NHS’ when it started as 1. I felt it was divisive, and 2. Didn’t fully recognise and acknowledge the efforts of so many other sectors all working above and beyond what was expected to keep this crisis contained and keep the country going. As a RN of 30 yrs, specialised in 2 specialties (at degree and masters level), I do feel that nurses pay needs addressing... the issue of what constitutes ‘Value’ is a complex multilayered issue that just cannot be argued in a sentence. So much of what we do requires using complex information, analysing it and translating that into meaningful actions that are centred around improving a patients condition, often before it is noticed by any other members of the team. I would say that you have to experience it first hand to understand a nurses true value. Because someone joins a (ANY) profession that has had low pay, does it mean that because they have a love or passion to excel in that profession that they should simply lay back and not ask or expect improved wages or better conditions? I see some people say.. ‘well, that’s their job’... you could say that about ANY job... so what do we do? .... don’t bother saying ‘thank you’ to a waiter or checkout person because ‘that’s their job’? .... don’t bother with giving medals for operational tours for service personnel because ‘that’s their job’?.... scrap the honours system because ‘that’s their job’ (or at least their choice to do well in that job) My experience during 30 yrs of nursing is that the public, by and large, see the profession as a ‘cinderalla’ profession... when we’re good we’re very good.. when we’re bad we’re all evil... I knew when the clapping started that it wouldn’t be long before we came in for a bashing. I can remember talking to a friend who worked at a dockyard and talked about some of the issues I faced as a fairly senior nurse... the chap was in disbelief and said that it would never happen where he worked because people would just walk.. I’ll leave this post with one last comment...when you cherish something or someone, never abuse them to the point that they stop caring... you might just find that you lose the very thing that you cherished" You have written a nuanced and insightful post But don't think ideas and posts made by others can be nuanced too...The world is not back and white Nobody is making personal attacks on the profession of nursing in fact most posts are advocating how great nurses and they should be remunerated more. But within the existing NHS budget. The public are not happy about private trusts adding layers of middle managers not engaged in health care but busy work. Blanket pay increases for NHS or even just every nurse is not the right answer. Being thanked for your job is very different to holding a nation up to ransom by threatening strike action if you don't pay them more. Soldiers do receive medals.. And for then most part I can say from experience don't give a shit about them. But nor do see them stopping on the tarmac before enter a troop carrier and saying give us a pay rise or we are not going back to the gulf afghan or whereever the government is throwing their Wang around in latest geopolitical war they are waging The firefighters union did go on strike complaining their (at the time 30k salary was not enough) What happened... The army was roped in using fire engines from 40 years ago manned by soldiers most of them under 18-25k whilst gulf/afghan war was still going on. And rightfully so public opinion turned on the firegighters As for you dockyard friend...go and compare marine unions to any union in the retail or service sector. Dockers have had strong socialised unions for almost a century. I dont want this post to sound like a personal attack and I'm sure everyone is grateful for your work as a nurse. But being able to scrutinise the NHS is right. The NHS including nurses need to accept constructive criticism too. I wouldn't be against a medal of nurses if they want one but I'd rather the money be spent on ppe to protect their own lives and they have helped save so many others | |||
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"Ahh all the “you’re a communist” and “I’m a key worker too” crowd have joined in... have you looked at the starting wage for an MP? £81k to START! That’s more than three times the wages of most professions. Maybe instead of pointing fingers at each other you look at the real culprits, money bag MPs and their corporate partners..." Should all professions be paid equal? | |||
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" Should all professions be paid equal?" This has no relevance to NHS pay | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase. 650 MPs, 1.5 million employed by NHS. Once you share every MPs 1.8% pay rise over the 2,300 NHS employees it’s only 60p each. Did you share Dianne Abbott’s math and economics teachers? "Good point here why do ALL workers get extra pay because some have done good work? Not all staff are in the ICU's not all NHS staff have been on the front line during covid e.g. physio's, occupational therapists, cooks, storemen, no more so than the other key workers, limited exposure but not front line...... so my question is why do 1.5 million deserve a pay rise due to covid-19 please don't rake up all the old arguments, this OP was about the virus | |||
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" Should all professions be paid equal? This has no relevance to NHS pay" Of course it does. And I wasn’t asking you | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase. 650 MPs, 1.5 million employed by NHS. Once you share every MPs 1.8% pay rise over the 2,300 NHS employees it’s only 60p each. Did you share Dianne Abbott’s math and economics teachers?
Good point here why do ALL workers get extra pay because some have done good work? Not all staff are in the ICU's not all NHS staff have been on the front line during covid e.g. physio's, occupational therapists, cooks, storemen, no more so than the other key workers, limited exposure but not front line...... so my question is why do 1.5 million deserve a pay rise due to covid-19 please don't rake up all the old arguments, this OP was about the virus"No, the OP was using the virus to highlight public appreciation for the NHS. | |||
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" Should all professions be paid equal? This has no relevance to NHS pay Of course it does. And I wasn’t asking you " You should quote who you're directing a response/question to. | |||
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" Should all professions be paid equal? This has no relevance to NHS pay Of course it does. And I wasn’t asking you You should quote who you're directing a response/question to. " I did | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase. 650 MPs, 1.5 million employed by NHS. Once you share every MPs 1.8% pay rise over the 2,300 NHS employees it’s only 60p each. Did you share Dianne Abbott’s math and economics teachers?
Good point here why do ALL workers get extra pay because some have done good work? Not all staff are in the ICU's not all NHS staff have been on the front line during covid e.g. physio's, occupational therapists, cooks, storemen, no more so than the other key workers, limited exposure but not front line...... so my question is why do 1.5 million deserve a pay rise due to covid-19 please don't rake up all the old arguments, this OP was about the virus
No, the OP was using the virus to highlight public appreciation for the NHS. "And to justify a pay rise for the "NHS" | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage?" Agreed. But also: It's not so much the salaries, which, like it or not are in line with other public sector workers. It's the stresses and strains that the whole health and social care system is under which at makes it such a difficult sector to work in. And I don't for a moment believe its any different in the police, services etc. The real question is: do we want to pay more taxes to fund public services. Recent election results would sadly suggest not IMHO. | |||
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" Should all professions be paid equal? This has no relevance to NHS pay Of course it does. And I wasn’t asking you You should quote who you're directing a response/question to. I did" Oops so you did, my apologies.  | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase. 650 MPs, 1.5 million employed by NHS. Once you share every MPs 1.8% pay rise over the 2,300 NHS employees it’s only 60p each. Did you share Dianne Abbott’s math and economics teachers?
Good point here why do ALL workers get extra pay because some have done good work? Not all staff are in the ICU's not all NHS staff have been on the front line during covid e.g. physio's, occupational therapists, cooks, storemen, no more so than the other key workers, limited exposure but not front line...... so my question is why do 1.5 million deserve a pay rise due to covid-19 please don't rake up all the old arguments, this OP was about the virus
No, the OP was using the virus to highlight public appreciation for the NHS.
And to justify a pay rise for the "NHS""Nope, nd I should know  | |||
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"It isn't just the NHS though is it? Plenty of other key workers How about those supermarket staff who earn barely more than the minimum wage? Agreed. But also: It's not so much the salaries, which, like it or not are in line with other public sector workers. It's the stresses and strains that the whole health and social care system is under which at makes it such a difficult sector to work in. And I don't for a moment believe its any different in the police, services etc. The real question is: do we want to pay more taxes to fund public services. Recent election results would sadly suggest not IMHO. " I admit I haven't compared the other sectors of late, but historically, nurses were the poor professionals compared to police, teachers and social workers. | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase. 650 MPs, 1.5 million employed by NHS. Once you share every MPs 1.8% pay rise over the 2,300 NHS employees it’s only 60p each. Did you share Dianne Abbott’s math and economics teachers?
Good point here why do ALL workers get extra pay because some have done good work? Not all staff are in the ICU's not all NHS staff have been on the front line during covid e.g. physio's, occupational therapists, cooks, storemen, no more so than the other key workers, limited exposure but not front line...... so my question is why do 1.5 million deserve a pay rise due to covid-19 please don't rake up all the old arguments, this OP was about the virus
No, the OP was using the virus to highlight public appreciation for the NHS.
And to justify a pay rise for the "NHS"
Nope, nd I should know ""early discussions on a payrise for NHS staff, highlighting the dedication seen throughout the pandemic. Not only a reward, but pay to retain those who want to leave" That is clearly about a pay rise using the dedication seen throughout the pandemic (or virus, covid-19) as a stick to get a pay rise. So if your not advocating a pay rise for the whole NHS due to dedication throughout the virus please be more specific....... then we dummies might also know what your after | |||
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"What will the tax increase look like? I am sure we can take it from the politicians pay increase. 650 MPs, 1.5 million employed by NHS. Once you share every MPs 1.8% pay rise over the 2,300 NHS employees it’s only 60p each. Did you share Dianne Abbott’s math and economics teachers?
Good point here why do ALL workers get extra pay because some have done good work? Not all staff are in the ICU's not all NHS staff have been on the front line during covid e.g. physio's, occupational therapists, cooks, storemen, no more so than the other key workers, limited exposure but not front line...... so my question is why do 1.5 million deserve a pay rise due to covid-19 please don't rake up all the old arguments, this OP was about the virus
No, the OP was using the virus to highlight public appreciation for the NHS.
And to justify a pay rise for the "NHS"
Nope, nd I should know
"early discussions on a payrise for NHS staff, highlighting the dedication seen throughout the pandemic. Not only a reward, but pay to retain those who want to leave"
That is clearly about a pay rise using the dedication seen throughout the pandemic (or virus, covid-19) as a stick to get a pay rise.
So if your not advocating a pay rise for the whole NHS due to dedication throughout the virus please be more specific....... then we dummies might also know what your after
"Oops I was going on my intentions rather than the actual words I used. Silly me, totally my error. | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax." Can't see any problem at all with a private company doing that. I mean look at the success of carillion | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax. No, no, no, no! Re private companies. It was trialled, it failed! When was it trialled and failed? I spent for 6 days in a privately run NHS ward and it was the treatment I’ve ever had. An entire hospital. In Huntingdon, Cambs. Look it up. " That would be Hinchingbrooke Interestingly it had the 4th lowest rate of patient complaints so it must've been doing something right I've had experience of both private and NHS care (both emergency and elective). The private care was more flexible and better organised, but the NHS can't be beaten for emergency care The big challenge for the NHS going forwards is the increase in routine operations amongst an aging population, with ever more expensive equipment and drugs. There is no silver bullet to solve the strain on resources that has been there almost since the NHS was founded but the likelihood is that we will all be paying more for our healthcare in the future, be it solely through the NHS or a mix of NHS and private / non for profi | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax. No, no, no, no! Re private companies. It was trialled, it failed! When was it trialled and failed? I spent for 6 days in a privately run NHS ward and it was the treatment I’ve ever had. An entire hospital. In Huntingdon, Cambs. Look it up. That would be Hinchingbrooke Interestingly it had the 4th lowest rate of patient complaints so it must've been doing something right I've had experience of both private and NHS care (both emergency and elective). The private care was more flexible and better organised, but the NHS can't be beaten for emergency care The big challenge for the NHS going forwards is the increase in routine operations amongst an aging population, with ever more expensive equipment and drugs. There is no silver bullet to solve the strain on resources that has been there almost since the NHS was founded but the likelihood is that we will all be paying more for our healthcare in the future, be it solely through the NHS or a mix of NHS and private / non for profi" They left a half built hospital in liverpool before going bust. I've worked in a publuc/private industry.In my experience profit is the bottom line in the private sector.This may work out in the business area but where the health of your loved ones Is on the line,its a different kettle of fish. I think you are right though and I am very fearful of trump s mates getting his grubby little mitts on it | |||
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"What a capitalist you turned out to be.....the jam eton riffels ......maybe you might like the virus i had it for a few months...you might change your attitude...but doubt it......we all pay national insurance towards healthcare...and good for you if you get healthcare some people arnt that fortunate to be able to afford it.....Its tough out there for many these days....and a bigger divide...but remember higher up the ladder the bigger tumble it it all goes wrong....im for fairness...something thats lacking in these times respect another thing thats missing too work hard play hard but dont trample on those that do the vacations we all need as support....i bet many have wiped your arse in the past" Blimey.. I thought National Insurance was for pensions all that time.. | |||
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"What a capitalist you turned out to be.....the jam eton riffels ......maybe you might like the virus i had it for a few months...you might change your attitude...but doubt it......we all pay national insurance towards healthcare...and good for you if you get healthcare some people arnt that fortunate to be able to afford it.....Its tough out there for many these days....and a bigger divide...but remember higher up the ladder the bigger tumble it it all goes wrong....im for fairness...something thats lacking in these times respect another thing thats missing too work hard play hard but dont trample on those that do the vacations we all need as support....i bet many have wiped your arse in the past Blimey.. I thought National Insurance was for pensions all that time.." "National Insurance is now used to pay for: The NHS Unemployment benefit Sickness and disability allowances The state pension NI is supposed to be "ring fenced" - meaning the money raised is only used for these areas and won't be spent on things like building schools or employing police officers. However, the government can borrow from the National Insurance fund to help pay for other projects." From http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/10078062/why-do-we-pay-national-insurance | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax." Private companies only want the quick routine stuff. They are not equipped or have the clinical skills to treat those with multiple chronic conditions. | |||
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"If we want to pay nurses more then we need to allow private companies to run the NHS, because it’s really inefficient and bleeds money at the moment. or we need to pay more tax. Private companies only want the quick routine stuff. They are not equipped or have the clinical skills to treat those with multiple chronic conditions. " If you’ve been in hospital in the states under insurance you have every kind of test & treatment the hospital can throw at you to bill the insurance company. | |||
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 . That's the level of support for the NHS staff from them. | |||
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"Haven't read all this thread but I have a dim view of the NHS after all this actually. Know quite a few employed (including nurses) who have blatantly ignored social disatncing, had friends around for BBQs and hot-tub parties (honestly) etc. Add to that that the media keep telling us we are "one of the worst affected countries" and, yet, in the next breath "our brilliant NHS." Can't actually have it both ways and the reality is that the NHS has failed. It's a huge monolith that employs plenty of lazy, useless people. Sad but true - I appreciate there are plenty of dedicated NHS workers too. My message is "get your house in order" and stop a) blaming the govt. and b) asking for more and more money all the time. It costs us circa 130 BILLION pounds a year - are you really getting value for money - 130 BILLION - stop and think about that for a minute before hitting your keyboard in the usual anger. " Yes you can have it both ways - the NHS managed the fallout of having a high number affected by the virus. No doubt research will inform us that many of those people who died without underlying conditions, had a dysfunctional immune response (hyper), this can lead to all sorts of problems such as pneumonia, encephalitis and (viral) sepsis. | |||
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"Haven't read all this thread but I have a dim view of the NHS after all this actually. Know quite a few employed (including nurses) who have blatantly ignored social disatncing, had friends around for BBQs and hot-tub parties (honestly) etc. Add to that that the media keep telling us we are "one of the worst affected countries" and, yet, in the next breath "our brilliant NHS." Can't actually have it both ways and the reality is that the NHS has failed. It's a huge monolith that employs plenty of lazy, useless people. Sad but true - I appreciate there are plenty of dedicated NHS workers too. My message is "get your house in order" and stop a) blaming the govt. and b) asking for more and more money all the time. It costs us circa 130 BILLION pounds a year - are you really getting value for money - 130 BILLION - stop and think about that for a minute before hitting your keyboard in the usual anger. " Where do you think we would be if the NHS didn't exist? | |||
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"Where do you think we would be if the NHS didn't exist?" There are FAR better health systems around. One of our greatest myths this, perpetuated by those with self interest. | |||
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"Just a quick reminder to all of those that are bashing the NHS and NHS staff: one day you or a family member will get sick and you will need the help of the NHS to support you or your family through your sickness! Health is the most important thing that we have! Remember this next time you open your mouth to speak against the NHS. " No one is knocking NHS staff more the system, loins lead by donkey's springs to mind. | |||
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"Where do you think we would be if the NHS didn't exist? There are FAR better health systems around. One of our greatest myths this, perpetuated by those with self interest. " Free ones.? | |||
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"Just a quick reminder to all of those that are bashing the NHS and NHS staff: one day you or a family member will get sick and you will need the help of the NHS to support you or your family through your sickness! Health is the most important thing that we have! Remember this next time you open your mouth to speak against the NHS. No one is knocking NHS staff more the system, loins lead by donkey's springs to mind. " In what way? | |||
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"Just a quick reminder to all of those that are bashing the NHS and NHS staff: one day you or a family member will get sick and you will need the help of the NHS to support you or your family through your sickness! Health is the most important thing that we have! Remember this next time you open your mouth to speak against the NHS. " Just because we believe in fair reward for fair effort, does not constitute "knocking the NHS" | |||
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"the biggest problem with the nhs, isnt the doctore and nurses, they are brilliant, but the huge amount of managers etc, they dont really do alot, and get paid way more than thier worth, they were mainly brought in about 20 years ago, no idia why, the nhs suvived before with out them, why do we need them now?" Because Doctors and Nurses quite rightly said financial responsibility wasn't part of their remit. So the Manager and "money waster" was born. | |||
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"Where do you think we would be if the NHS didn't exist? There are FAR better health systems around. One of our greatest myths this, perpetuated by those with self interest. Free ones.?" Of course technically the NHS isn't free as it's paid for via our various taxes The issue is whether there is a move towards a more mixed system like in Germany (the oldest mass healthcare system in the world), or more central government funding as costs inevitably continue to rise | |||
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"the biggest problem with the nhs, isnt the doctore and nurses, they are brilliant, but the huge amount of managers etc, they dont really do alot, and get paid way more than thier worth, they were mainly brought in about 20 years ago, no idia why, the nhs suvived before with out them, why do we need them now?" 4% of the nhs are managers In the wider economy its 10% | |||
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"Where do you think we would be if the NHS didn't exist? There are FAR better health systems around. One of our greatest myths this, perpetuated by those with self interest. Free ones.? Of course technically the NHS isn't free as it's paid for via our various taxes The issue is whether there is a move towards a more mixed system like in Germany (the oldest mass healthcare system in the world), or more central government funding as costs inevitably continue to rise " Its free at point of treatment and one of the things we should be most proud of in this country. I do think things will change however. | |||
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"the biggest problem with the nhs, isnt the doctore and nurses, they are brilliant, but the huge amount of managers etc, they dont really do alot, and get paid way more than thier worth, they were mainly brought in about 20 years ago, no idia why, the nhs suvived before with out them, why do we need them now?" There have always been non clinical managers and clerical staff in the NHS - it wouldn't run at all otherwise. And each function needs to be managed None of us would want to spend even longer on a waiting list simply because a doctor (for example) has to book all his own appointments and buy all his own medical supplies | |||
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"the biggest problem with the nhs, isnt the doctore and nurses, they are brilliant, but the huge amount of managers etc, they dont really do alot, and get paid way more than thier worth, they were mainly brought in about 20 years ago, no idia why, the nhs suvived before with out them, why do we need them now? There have always been non clinical managers and clerical staff in the NHS - it wouldn't run at all otherwise. And each function needs to be managed None of us would want to spend even longer on a waiting list simply because a doctor (for example) has to book all his own appointments and buy all his own medical supplies" Management and 'bureaucracy 'are an easy target.When the coalition came to power Cameron talked about not touching front line services.So presumably ambulances would be aimlessly driving around looking for someone who was sick. | |||
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"Where do you think we would be if the NHS didn't exist? There are FAR better health systems around. One of our greatest myths this, perpetuated by those with self interest. Free ones.?" FREE! Please tell me more. I`ve paid an absolute fortune into the NHS since working from age 16. It's free to spongers of course; just like everything else. | |||
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"Nurses get paid peanuts and Consultant surgeons get paid nuts by the shedload.. They are the burden ... " Maybe someday if you need a triple bypass they'll let a couple of nurses do it for you then rather than some overpaid consultant. | |||
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"Where do you think we would be if the NHS didn't exist? There are FAR better health systems around. One of our greatest myths this, perpetuated by those with self interest. Free ones.? FREE! Please tell me more. I`ve paid an absolute fortune into the NHS since working from age 16. It's free to spongers of course; just like everything else." For the 2nd time it's free at point of need. What spongers exactly? And where are the better comparable ones? | |||
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"Nurses get paid peanuts and Consultant surgeons get paid nuts by the shedload.. They are the burden ... Maybe someday if you need a triple bypass they'll let a couple of nurses do it for you then rather than some overpaid consultant. "  | |||
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"I think am earlier poster was making the point that the NHS is not a free service.. It's paid for in taxes but there are some who are workshy and pay no taxes so use the service but don't pay into it... " The NHS is a free service. It is funded by taxation but that doesn't mean it's a paid for service. Most people who are not paying tax are not "work-shy", just not paying taxes. These people include, children, pensioners, low paid workers, and unemployed people. Many people in minimum wage jobs will not achieve the tax threshold, and most of them are "key workers". Cal | |||
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"I think am earlier poster was making the point that the NHS is not a free service.. It's paid for in taxes but there are some who are workshy and pay no taxes so use the service but don't pay into it... " There are also plenty of very rich people who pay no tax too... but then think their huge wealth allows them to be critical of others. Cal | |||
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