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Died with or died from
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"Looking at the statistics it doesn't really clarify those who have died from the virus and those who have died with the virus."
Or even only suspected to have had it. Personally, i feel figures have been falsified, as how can it be 800 per day 6 weeks or so ago, then have all the beach gatherings, protests etc wher distancing has been none existant, yet only 15 deaths on monday |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And now saying care homes are reporting deaths and fillings in certificates themselves, if they think it covid-19 then that's ok. No one checks because you can't touch an infected body, handy that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"as how can it be 800 per day 6 weeks or so ago, then have all the beach gatherings, protests etc wher distancing has been none existant, yet only 15 deaths on monday"
It takes up to 2 weeks for symptoms to even start showing up let alone be at the point where you start dying from it. 2 weeks will be the bare minimum for reliable figures.
Plus on weekends a lot of the deaths aren't reported until monday due to staffing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And now saying care homes are reporting deaths and fillings in certificates themselves, if they think it covid-19 then that's ok."
Who is "they" and why should we believe them that there's no-way to reliably infer someone as having died from covid?
Do you think they just drop dead with zero symptoms and they just tick a box called "died from covid" and that's all there is to it?
If so, what evidence have you got that makes you think that's a reliable inference either? |
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By *adMerWoman
over a year ago
Sandwich |
"And now saying care homes are reporting deaths and fillings in certificates themselves, if they think it covid-19 then that's ok. No one checks because you can't touch an infected body, handy that."
Care homes are having to diagnose every illness etc, let alone death, at the moment because no gp is willing to come into the premises. Is that the care homes’ fault?
PS I work in a care home that has had no deaths or even illness from covid. Why?
Because we took sensible precautions very early on, which sadly means our residents haven’t seen family or friends for many months. |
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By *nvioletMan
over a year ago
Thanet/Kent |
"Looking at the statistics it doesn't really clarify those who have died from the virus and those who have died with the virus."
Statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to say. The thing is, "with" and "from" aren't mutually exclusive because of you hadn't caught it, you probably wouldn't have died. 65,000 excess deaths so far is testament to the fact that your argument fails as soon as you start typing. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
They are on a hiding to nothing if they only counted the known certain deaths from covid all the anti government supporters would say they are fixing the numbers and when they count all the deaths covid related they are accused of having the highest rate in europe.I know for a fact that people who have been in end of life care who have died its been put down to covid even though they probably only had a week or two left anyway.The true figures will not be revealed until a full year has past then they can compare yearly figures with the past 5 years figures. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Looking at the statistics it doesn't really clarify those who have died from the virus and those who have died with the virus.
Statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to say. The thing is, "with" and "from" aren't mutually exclusive because of you hadn't caught it, you probably wouldn't have died. 65,000 excess deaths so far is testament to the fact that your argument fails as soon as you start typing."
Not really, virtually all hospital services have stopped, A&E numbers have slumped meaning that many have died that wouldn't have had they had treatment, until all the stats have been analysed we wont know. |
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The nearest you're going to get to a real figure is the amount of deaths above the average for this time of year.
Last time I checked the ONS figures it was around 40,000 officially from the virus. But around 60,000 extra deaths more than normal. |
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By *nvioletMan
over a year ago
Thanet/Kent |
"Looking at the statistics it doesn't really clarify those who have died from the virus and those who have died with the virus.
Statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to say. The thing is, "with" and "from" aren't mutually exclusive because of you hadn't caught it, you probably wouldn't have died. 65,000 excess deaths so far is testament to the fact that your argument fails as soon as you start typing.
Not really, virtually all hospital services have stopped, A&E numbers have slumped meaning that many have died that wouldn't have had they had treatment, until all the stats have been analysed we wont know."
Whilst this is partly true, the excess deaths from lack of treatment for other things will be a small fraction of the approximate figure I've quoted. Even if it was a generous 10% that's still a horrendous figure. I'll add that this is despite a lockdown, albeit too late.
A&E figures have reduced partly because the fucking hypochondriacs are too scared to go to hospital and the other fuckwits who waste the NHS' money aren't getting tanked up down the pub of a weekend.
Now you've got the great unwashed not giving a fuck, shitting in a burger box because some cunt drove to fucking Barnard Castle because his eyes felt weird!
Sadly half the population is below average intelligence. Unfortunately this pandemic will probably skew Darwin's theory and lower the bar.
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"Looking at the statistics it doesn't really clarify those who have died from the virus and those who have died with the virus.
Statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to say. The thing is, "with" and "from" aren't mutually exclusive because of you hadn't caught it, you probably wouldn't have died. 65,000 excess deaths so far is testament to the fact that your argument fails as soon as you start typing.
Not really, virtually all hospital services have stopped, A&E numbers have slumped meaning that many have died that wouldn't have had they had treatment, until all the stats have been analysed we wont know.
Whilst this is partly true, the excess deaths from lack of treatment for other things will be a small fraction of the approximate figure I've quoted. Even if it was a generous 10% that's still a horrendous figure. I'll add that this is despite a lockdown, albeit too late.
A&E figures have reduced partly because the fucking hypochondriacs are too scared to go to hospital and the other fuckwits who waste the NHS' money aren't getting tanked up down the pub of a weekend.
Now you've got the great unwashed not giving a fuck, shitting in a burger box because some cunt drove to fucking Barnard Castle because his eyes felt weird!
Sadly half the population is below average intelligence. Unfortunately this pandemic will probably skew Darwin's theory and lower the bar.
"
Just a quickie..... wouldn’t you expect half the population to be below average? Ish? |
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"Looking at the statistics it doesn't really clarify those who have died from the virus and those who have died with the virus.
Statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to say. The thing is, "with" and "from" aren't mutually exclusive because of you hadn't caught it, you probably wouldn't have died. 65,000 excess deaths so far is testament to the fact that your argument fails as soon as you start typing.
Not really, virtually all hospital services have stopped, A&E numbers have slumped meaning that many have died that wouldn't have had they had treatment, until all the stats have been analysed we wont know.
Whilst this is partly true, the excess deaths from lack of treatment for other things will be a small fraction of the approximate figure I've quoted. Even if it was a generous 10% that's still a horrendous figure. I'll add that this is despite a lockdown, albeit too late.
A&E figures have reduced partly because the fucking hypochondriacs are too scared to go to hospital and the other fuckwits who waste the NHS' money aren't getting tanked up down the pub of a weekend.
Now you've got the great unwashed not giving a fuck, shitting in a burger box because some cunt drove to fucking Barnard Castle because his eyes felt weird!
Sadly half the population is below average intelligence. Unfortunately this pandemic will probably skew Darwin's theory and lower the bar.
Just a quickie..... wouldn’t you expect half the population to be below average? Ish? "
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
Whilst this is partly true, the excess deaths from lack of treatment for other things will be a small fraction of the approximate figure I've quoted. Even if it was a generous 10% that's still a horrendous figure. I'll add that this is despite a lockdown, albeit too late.
A&E figures have reduced partly because the fucking hypochondriacs are too scared to go to hospital and the other fuckwits who waste the NHS' money aren't getting tanked up down the pub of a weekend.
Now you've got the great unwashed not giving a fuck, shitting in a burger box because some cunt drove to fucking Barnard Castle because his eyes felt weird!
Sadly half the population is below average intelligence. Unfortunately this pandemic will probably skew Darwin's theory and lower the bar.
"
Two points, when you compare the number of days from first confirmed case to lockdown we were well inline with other countries and were advising on social distance and hand washing etc far more than France where we were from mid Jan to lockdown day there, just because the guardian and bbc tell you we locked down slower doesnt make it true.
Secondly half the population arent necessarily below or above average intelligence it's not worked out like that, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As mentioned...you have to allow for...
1... incubation period
2... Period of illness.. prior to signicant deterioration
3... Period of hospitalisation and attempted treatment
So imagine over the last week and the upcoming fuck up of idiots acting like idiots post 4th July...
Any second uplifting in numbers will be August..
Also you are reliant on people who become ill isolating themselves correctly..and some won't.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know for a fact that people who have been in end of life care who have died its been put down to covid even though they probably only had a week or two left anyway."
So if I know a guy who's got two months to live due to cancer, but is hit and killed by a car, does that suddenly mean it was the cancer that killed him? Or the car?
The whole point is to track the effect of the virus. To state that it's ludicrous to accept ad hoc explanations for deaths and then literally use one as your justification is... well... you should just realise it's really bad.
It doesn't matter if there are a subset of people who "would've died anyway". Despite the obvious trivialising of the value of any length of life given to an individual no matter how short, the stats show the most honest picture.
My partner had a family member die in recent years, but because they died so quickly they never got to say goodbye.
Are you saying there's no value in that person having maybe an extra week of life to at least get to say goodbye to their friends and family? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Secondly half the population arent necessarily below or above average intelligence it's not worked out like that, "
Umm... yes.. yes it is. That's exactly how that's worked out. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
Secondly half the population arent necessarily below or above average intelligence it's not worked out like that,
Umm... yes.. yes it is. That's exactly how that's worked out."
So you have two people with an IQ of 10 and 8 with an IQ of 140 , now tell me what that average IQ is and how many are above or below average |
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Secondly half the population arent necessarily below or above average intelligence it's not worked out like that,
Umm... yes.. yes it is. That's exactly how that's worked out.
So you have two people with an IQ of 10 and 8 with an IQ of 140 , now tell me what that average IQ is and how many are above or below average "
Would 10 people with wildly differing IQ be a good measure? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
Secondly half the population arent necessarily below or above average intelligence it's not worked out like that,
Umm... yes.. yes it is. That's exactly how that's worked out.
So you have two people with an IQ of 10 and 8 with an IQ of 140 , now tell me what that average IQ is and how many are above or below average
Would 10 people with wildly differing IQ be a good measure?"
its an extreme example of course but it was to show how the average is worked out.
The average level only equates to half the population if half the people have an actual IQ that is above or below the average that is highly unlikely and would be the same with any measure |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So you have two people with an IQ of 10 and 8 with an IQ of 140 , now tell me what that average IQ is and how many are above or below average "
You're using a different measure of average to the measure they use for IQ so it doesn't count.
There is mean,median,mode,range and some other more statistical methods of average.
The average is also taken over a popuplation, so you wouldn't be able to get a population as you described. The IQ is defined by the variance between people. There's no such thing as an absolute IQ. You could have an IQ of 120 today and an IQ of 80 tomorrow based on the popuplation used to measure it.
It would simply always be 50% of people below 100 and 50% above (in the most simplest of terms that don't include more technical aspects).
The statement that 50% of all people are below average intelligence is correct.
The data is always normalised to a bell curve. It's the individual populations that are measured as postively/negatively skewed to the general populations for comparison.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn't take it as an insult if you don't "get" the concept either.
There is nothing intrinsic to the statement that implies that intelligent people won't 'get' the paradox first time they see it.
There are lots of weird statistical outcomes that confuse even the most intelligent people.
But there is some humour in using the phrase to poke fun at people when called for. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"as how can it be 800 per day 6 weeks or so ago, then have all the beach gatherings, protests etc wher distancing has been none existant, yet only 15 deaths on monday
It takes up to 2 weeks for symptoms to even start showing up let alone be at the point where you start dying from it. 2 weeks will be the bare minimum for reliable figures.
Plus on weekends a lot of the deaths aren't reported until monday due to staffing."
But you should see an increase in infection, which isn’t happening |
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Here's a link to NHS England daily covid death report, there are a wealth of figures on there, age location number of underlying health conditions ETC ETC. According to there figures the virus peaked on April 8 and has been in major decline ever since, and around 1400 are known to have died of covid, with no other underlying health issues.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/?fbclid=IwAR1Q_8ETCRs6UnoM05KlnMI2vBRSHvJeeiDDbhzWLEH0LmQea6wQ9m3sg9g
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
So you have two people with an IQ of 10 and 8 with an IQ of 140 , now tell me what that average IQ is and how many are above or below average
You're using a different measure of average to the measure they use for IQ so it doesn't count.
There is mean,median,mode,range and some other more statistical methods of average.
The average is also taken over a popuplation, so you wouldn't be able to get a population as you described. The IQ is defined by the variance between people. There's no such thing as an absolute IQ. You could have an IQ of 120 today and an IQ of 80 tomorrow based on the popuplation used to measure it.
It would simply always be 50% of people below 100 and 50% above (in the most simplest of terms that don't include more technical aspects).
The statement that 50% of all people are below average intelligence is correct.
The data is always normalised to a bell curve. It's the individual populations that are measured as postively/negatively skewed to the general populations for comparison.
"
oh dear someone has used mr google and copy paste. |
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