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The point of lockdown
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By *yn drwg OP Man
over a year ago
Camarthen |
The whole point of lockdown was to protect the NHS and reduce the spread of the virus, this has been achieved in most parts of the country so why is lockdown still in place. The virus isn't simply going to go away it's just how we deal with it. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
Did you believe it was to save the NHS how nieve.It was to save you from getting very ill and maybe your life.The message worked,that is why Cummins keeps his job.
The NHS now has a hell of a lot more problems to sort out |
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"The whole point of lockdown was to protect the NHS and reduce the spread of the virus, this has been achieved in most parts of the country so why is lockdown still in place. The virus isn't simply going to go away it's just how we deal with it."
The individual states in the UK are all progressing at different rates - you guys in Wales have been more reluctant to relax some of the restrictions, which I view as more reasonable. You've had a tougher experience than most in the UK.
None of us had a plan for how things were going to be reversed when we entered lockdown - we only got 1 when it was forced from government. I'm unsure of the credibility of what we were all told at the start. Huge numbers of seriously ill people could have overwhelmed services. Similarly, if we were fast and has a total opening of everything in 1 go everywhere, it would be reasonable to think that it could have caused a fast increase in the R value amongst 66 million people, which may have caused overwhelm. A progressive reopening would be sensible, when we are unsure how any of the changes could affect things I assume. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
That's what they told us, but did most people actually believe that?
After all the NHS failed to save many lives during this 'crisis' because everything was diverted to C-19, other services were suspended and ill people died, then there were the DNR docs being shelled out like confetti.
I refused to sign my dads, he tripped, fell, bumped his head and some wag wants to admit him and BTW here's a DNR form 'just in case'
He came home with us, job done.
Saving the NHS was a well thought out bit of propaganda and based on the flawed projections of a disgraced 'expert'.
|
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"That's what they told us, but did most people actually believe that?
After all the NHS failed to save many lives during this 'crisis' because everything was diverted to C-19, other services were suspended and ill people died, then there were the DNR docs being shelled out like confetti.
I refused to sign my dads, he tripped, fell, bumped his head and some wag wants to admit him and BTW here's a DNR form 'just in case'
He came home with us, job done.
Saving the NHS was a well thought out bit of propaganda and based on the flawed projections of a disgraced 'expert'.
"
And without the benefit of hindsight what was the alternative ? |
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By *ax GoofMan
over a year ago
Bouverie Court, Leeds |
The only reason the NHS continues to not be overwhelmed is because we are continuing to limit interactions. The virus is still out there and there is still no cure.
If we stop lockdown now, the "point" of lockdown will have been for nothing as everyone will then end up with it, overloading the NHS |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"The only reason the NHS continues to not be overwhelmed is because we are continuing to limit interactions. The virus is still out there and there is still no cure.
If we stop lockdown now, the "point" of lockdown will have been for nothing as everyone will then end up with it, overloading the NHS"
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The whole point was so that the idiots running around pretending this was all "just the flu" wouldn't end up infecting everyone causing the NHS to be unable to cope with the workload.
It's a simple positive feedback loop. The number of infected stays low enough so that the NHS can cope with the workload, so in turn the number of people who die is low because the NHS isn't having to work with too many patients. And so there's less people dying from lack of ventilators and treatment etc. |
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The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Some people have got too much time on their hands.  |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
Some people have got too much time on their hands. "
Yeah it's only matters of life, death and freedom  |
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"Did you believe it was to save the NHS how nieve.It was to save you from getting very ill and maybe your life.The message worked,that is why Cummins keeps his job.
The NHS now has a hell of a lot more problems to sort out"
Talk about naive. Do you really think that's why Cummings kept his job? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
Some people have got too much time on their hands.
Yeah it's only matters of life, death and freedom "
On your other forum posts it was more about you being proved right and wanting the adulation.
|
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
You have absolutely nothing to base this statement on. |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
Some people have got too much time on their hands.
Yeah it's only matters of life, death and freedom
On your other forum posts it was more about you being proved right and wanting the adulation.
"
That was about proving to all you lockdown lovers that you'd backed the wrong policy. Now the data is in, but many of you still bury your head in the sand. It's about now that the human cost of lockdown will kick in and public support has already fallen to a record low. You hold onto your ideology though. |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it? |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
You have absolutely nothing to base this statement on."
Wrong as usual. Go read: Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research. Educate yourself. |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it? "
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
"
It's their opinion. They are allowed one but no one else is unless they agree! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's what they told us, but did most people actually believe that?
After all the NHS failed to save many lives during this 'crisis' because everything was diverted to C-19, other services were suspended and ill people died, then there were the DNR docs being shelled out like confetti.
I refused to sign my dads, he tripped, fell, bumped his head and some wag wants to admit him and BTW here's a DNR form 'just in case'
He came home with us, job done.
Saving the NHS was a well thought out bit of propaganda and based on the flawed projections of a disgraced 'expert'.
"
Its all tories are about, propganda. |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
You have absolutely nothing to base this statement on.
Wrong as usual. Go read: Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research. Educate yourself. "
Apologies, I will rephrase that
You have absolutely no facts tombase that statement on |
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"That's what they told us, but did most people actually believe that?
After all the NHS failed to save many lives during this 'crisis' because everything was diverted to C-19, other services were suspended and ill people died, then there were the DNR docs being shelled out like confetti.
I refused to sign my dads, he tripped, fell, bumped his head and some wag wants to admit him and BTW here's a DNR form 'just in case'
He came home with us, job done.
Saving the NHS was a well thought out bit of propaganda and based on the flawed projections of a disgraced 'expert'.
Its all tories are about, propganda."
Really ? |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
You have absolutely nothing to base this statement on.
Wrong as usual. Go read: Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research. Educate yourself.
Apologies, I will rephrase that
You have absolutely no facts tombase that statement on"
Still wrong. Go and read that analysis and tell me what about their calculations you disagree with, other than you don't like the conclusion because it hurts your head to imagine the government isn't always doing what's best for ordinary people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's what they told us, but did most people actually believe that?
After all the NHS failed to save many lives during this 'crisis' because everything was diverted to C-19, other services were suspended and ill people died, then there were the DNR docs being shelled out like confetti.
I refused to sign my dads, he tripped, fell, bumped his head and some wag wants to admit him and BTW here's a DNR form 'just in case'
He came home with us, job done.
Saving the NHS was a well thought out bit of propaganda and based on the flawed projections of a disgraced 'expert'.
Its all tories are about, propganda.
Really ?"
Sorry.
And evil deeds |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
"
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. " |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. ""
Try reading past the executive summary |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Try reading past the executive summary "
Thanks but I'll pass, the summary tells me its not relevant to what you're asserting. |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Try reading past the executive summary
Thanks but I'll pass, the summary tells me its not relevant to what you're asserting. "
So you don't think preventable deaths increase when the economy is bad? |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Try reading past the executive summary
Thanks but I'll pass, the summary tells me its not relevant to what you're asserting.
So you don't think preventable deaths increase when the economy is bad? "
Austerity was a political decision by Cameron & co, this is a global pandemic with an accompanying recession. You're comparing apples and oranges. Cameron was competent and knew what he was pursuing, Johnson really has no idea. |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Try reading past the executive summary
Thanks but I'll pass, the summary tells me its not relevant to what you're asserting.
So you don't think preventable deaths increase when the economy is bad?
Austerity was a political decision by Cameron & co, this is a global pandemic with an accompanying recession. You're comparing apples and oranges. Cameron was competent and knew what he was pursuing, Johnson really has no idea."
Was that a yes or no to preventable deaths increasing in economic downturn? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Try reading past the executive summary
Thanks but I'll pass, the summary tells me its not relevant to what you're asserting.
So you don't think preventable deaths increase when the economy is bad?
Austerity was a political decision by Cameron & co, this is a global pandemic with an accompanying recession. You're comparing apples and oranges. Cameron was competent and knew what he was pursuing, Johnson really has no idea.
Was that a yes or no to preventable deaths increasing in economic downturn?"
Seeking confirmation you are right again? Yawn |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Try reading past the executive summary
Thanks but I'll pass, the summary tells me its not relevant to what you're asserting.
So you don't think preventable deaths increase when the economy is bad?
Austerity was a political decision by Cameron & co, this is a global pandemic with an accompanying recession. You're comparing apples and oranges. Cameron was competent and knew what he was pursuing, Johnson really has no idea.
Was that a yes or no to preventable deaths increasing in economic downturn?
Seeking confirmation you are right again? Yawn"
Basically testing if you can read |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Try reading past the executive summary
Thanks but I'll pass, the summary tells me its not relevant to what you're asserting.
So you don't think preventable deaths increase when the economy is bad?
Austerity was a political decision by Cameron & co, this is a global pandemic with an accompanying recession. You're comparing apples and oranges. Cameron was competent and knew what he was pursuing, Johnson really has no idea.
Was that a yes or no to preventable deaths increasing in economic downturn?
Seeking confirmation you are right again? Yawn
Basically testing if you can read"
Unfortunately I can read all your drivel. |
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|
By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"
Austerity was a political decision by Cameron & co, this is a global pandemic with an accompanying recession. You're comparing apples and oranges. Cameron was competent and knew what he was pursuing, Johnson really has no idea.
Was that a yes or no to preventable deaths increasing in economic downturn?
Seeking confirmation you are right again? Yawn
Basically testing if you can read"
What exactly do you think you gain from being impolite? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
|
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
Some people have got too much time on their hands.
Yeah it's only matters of life, death and freedom
On your other forum posts it was more about you being proved right and wanting the adulation.
That was about proving to all you lockdown lovers that you'd backed the wrong policy. Now the data is in, but many of you still bury your head in the sand. It's about now that the human cost of lockdown will kick in and public support has already fallen to a record low. You hold onto your ideology though. "
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
You have absolutely nothing to base this statement on.
Wrong as usual. Go read: Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research. Educate yourself.
Apologies, I will rephrase that
You have absolutely no facts tombase that statement on
Still wrong. Go and read that analysis and tell me what about their calculations you disagree with, other than you don't like the conclusion because it hurts your head to imagine the government isn't always doing what's best for ordinary people. "
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"The whole point of lockdown was to protect the NHS and reduce the spread of the virus, this has been achieved in most parts of the country so why is lockdown still in place. The virus isn't simply going to go away it's just how we deal with it."
Lockdown isn’t still in place, where have you been hiding , things are pretty much back to normal and bars opening in July
The virus will for the most part go away when it can’t spread due to distancing and/or immunity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Austerity was a political decision by Cameron & co, this is a global pandemic with an accompanying recession. You're comparing apples and oranges. Cameron was competent and knew what he was pursuing, Johnson really has no idea.
Was that a yes or no to preventable deaths increasing in economic downturn?
Seeking confirmation you are right again? Yawn
Basically testing if you can read
What exactly do you think you gain from being impolite?"
|
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|
By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
What value is one life.
Virus hasnt gone away
Everyone acting normally before second spike in october
It appears, vulnerable people's, lives, are not valued
So what value do you put one life???
Someone mum dad grandad grandmum
Or is it I'm OK doesn't matter
So what value do you put on one life |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
That's a strong fact you've stayed there..
Do you have any references for it?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research.
From the executive summary:
Too many people in the UK are suffering from preventable ill-health with progress on prevention stalling in recent years. Over half of the disease burden in England is deemed preventable, with one in five deaths attributed to causes that could have been avoided. The UK has made significant progress on this agenda in the past but we appear to have ‘hit a wall’ with limited progress since 2010.Notably, IPPR’s prevention index shows that out of 35 OECD countries:
• we have risen from 26th to 17th position between 1990 and 2010 in terms of the number of disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) caused by preventable illness, increasing by just one to 16th between 2010 and 2017
• we have risen from 29th in 1990 to 21st in 2010 in terms of preventable deaths, increasing by just one again to 20th between 2010 and 2017.
Action on prevention will not only improve health but also lead to increases in economic growth, make the NHS more sustainable and help to deliver social justice. Prevention leads to longer and health lives. There is lots of evidence showing that people intrinsically value this as one component of a good life. But it is also important because improved health drives greater wealth (in particular through higher workforce participation and productivity), makes the NHS and other public services more sustainable, and is a pre-requisite of delivering social justice, given the inequalities in health present across our society.
The government’s prevention green paper must deliver a paradigm shift in policy from interventions that ‘blame and punish’ to those that ‘empathise and assist’. To reignite the progress seen in prevention during the 1990s and 2000s the government must learn the lessons of previous prevention agendas. We argue that four key shifts are needed in the years to come, which together make up a paradigm shift in prevention and public health policy that helps move our approach from scattered to comprehensive. This paradigm shift will see policymakers eschew intervention that ‘blame and punish’ unhealthy behaviours to those that ‘empathise and assist’ them in making better decisions which result in better health.
How does this confirm your statements that:
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Try reading past the executive summary
Thanks but I'll pass, the summary tells me its not relevant to what you're asserting.
So you don't think preventable deaths increase when the economy is bad? "
Some people Just can't map out things logically.
Must beflouride of something. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The whole point of lockdown was to protect the NHS and reduce the spread of the virus, this has been achieved in most parts of the country so why is lockdown still in place. The virus isn't simply going to go away it's just how we deal with it.
Lockdown isn’t still in place, where have you been hiding , things are pretty much back to normal and bars opening in July
The virus will for the most part go away when it can’t spread due to distancing and/or immunity"
Lockdown was never legal asiscurrently being challenged in court.
What poeple are doing is social distancing and queeingand masks.
None of that makes any difference as there is still no proof demonstrating viruses do what they claim they do.
Before you call me out, ask yourself whether or not you've seen and scrutinised and agreed with any science orhave we all simply taken their assertions through faith? |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves. "
Do you have a source for your figures? |
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"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
Do you have a source for your figures? "
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research for the 130,000 and a cancer backlog of 2.4 million people on delayed treatment or diagnosis from cancer research UK, expected to kill 60,000 additional people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The NHS is now overwhelmed with a cancer backlog it can't deal with. The 2008 financial crisis created 130,000 preventable deaths and this is going to be worse. The cure is worse than the disease. Lockdown has and will continue to kill more than it saves.
Do you have a source for your figures?
Hochlaf, Quilter-Pinner and Kibasi (2019) institute for public policy research for the 130,000 and a cancer backlog of 2.4 million people on delayed treatment or diagnosis from cancer research UK, expected to kill 60,000 additional people. "
Expected is not a fact. |
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