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England's Infection Rate
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It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc? |
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I'm with the science on this, one scientist from sage has said we cannot track and trace the current numbers of infections..
That if its true does not sound good, I think this announcement by boris etc is more about deflection from cummings and some popular good news rather than listening to the science which they have said they will and have done..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus "
Judging from previous pandemics it's highly likely. If not now then in the winter (flu season) |
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By *edrickWoman
over a year ago
nottingham |
"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc? "
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
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By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus "
There is a theory that this is the second wave ... The first so small it didn't register .. as cases have been recorded in Europe in December ... Only a theory mind .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
"
Probably depends on your social circles/ who you know.
There have been at least 7 people that I know of, just at my work who have been infected. |
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
"
My cousin sadly lost his battle with the virus and also my friends partner, another friend tested positive although she had no symptoms |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
"
My cousin died of coved |
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I'm sorry to hear that
A lot is concentrated in the cities especially that of Birmingham and London. I know a few people who had the virus and were hospitalised. And the names of 6 people who died in the area, a lot of fathers of friends. |
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There are over 30 scientists on SAGE, of which I think five disagree with the current advice? No 30 people will ever agree.
What I do hope is that if the relaxation of the rules does result in a significant increase in infections and hospitalisations... That we are re-locked down.
I also find it odd that the very same people in my social media who were screaming for me freedom last week are now screaming that the evil tories are trying to kill them. Damned if you do and damned if you don't |
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By *edrickWoman
over a year ago
nottingham |
"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
My cousin sadly lost his battle with the virus and also my friends partner, another friend tested positive although she had no symptoms "
It's very sad. I think I've probably been very lucky so far that noone I know has been affected |
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By *edrickWoman
over a year ago
nottingham |
"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
My cousin died of coved "
Sorry to hear that |
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
"
Sister, mother, father and brother in law have all had it..
Two with underlying health issues told no resus and no ventilation..
Several relatives in the NHS and its being taken very seriously by them and several ex colleagues who are seconded to the ambulance service and seeing it daily.. |
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By *edrickWoman
over a year ago
nottingham |
"I'm sorry to hear that
A lot is concentrated in the cities especially that of Birmingham and London. I know a few people who had the virus and were hospitalised. And the names of 6 people who died in the area, a lot of fathers of friends. "
My sister is in London and knows friends of friends but noone directly. There doesnt appear to be many cases in my area! |
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"I'm sorry to hear that
A lot is concentrated in the cities especially that of Birmingham and London. I know a few people who had the virus and were hospitalised. And the names of 6 people who died in the area, a lot of fathers of friends.
My sister is in London and knows friends of friends but noone directly. There doesnt appear to be many cases in my area! "
It was quiet up here initially but now it's bad, seems to be like that with regions.. |
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By *edrickWoman
over a year ago
nottingham |
"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
Sister, mother, father and brother in law have all had it..
Two with underlying health issues told no resus and no ventilation..
Several relatives in the NHS and its being taken very seriously by them and several ex colleagues who are seconded to the ambulance service and seeing it daily.. "
Thanks heartbreaking to not be given a chance.im surprisedni dont know anyone tbh as the midlands was the 2nd most cases for quite a while! |
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
Sister, mother, father and brother in law have all had it..
Two with underlying health issues told no resus and no ventilation..
Several relatives in the NHS and its being taken very seriously by them and several ex colleagues who are seconded to the ambulance service and seeing it daily..
Thanks heartbreaking to not be given a chance.im surprisedni dont know anyone tbh as the midlands was the 2nd most cases for quite a while! "
Thankfully they both came through although there are further effects from it, it was a worrying few weeks..
The issue seems to be if a person has copd or other respiratory illnesses.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus "
Brainwashed cause Bill Gates and the mainstream media says so
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They can't postpone the second spike any longer or it will be in early winter. "
More like they can't postpone the 2nd spike too long cause as people are building up natural immunity without a vaccine people won't get need the vacinne. Bill gates has already said after effects of the rushed vaccine wont be known till years after so good luck if your gonna have it
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Judging from previous pandemics it's highly likely. If not now then in the winter (flu season) "
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
My cousin died of coved "
Did he live anywhere near a 5g tower by any chance |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
Sister, mother, father and brother in law have all had it..
Two with underlying health issues told no resus and no ventilation..
"
How old were they ? A rough age if you don't want to be exact |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
I am half and half, I know we have to lift the lock down but it seems a lot of unlocking next week when there doesn't seem much confidence in the track and trace on account there is no APP yet and the infections are high still
Maybe a more staggered lock down might have been better |
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
Sister, mother, father and brother in law have all had it..
Two with underlying health issues told no resus and no ventilation..
How old were they ? A rough age if you don't want to be exact"
One 59 and the other 86.. |
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"I am half and half, I know we have to lift the lock down but it seems a lot of unlocking next week when there doesn't seem much confidence in the track and trace on account there is no APP yet and the infections are high still
Maybe a more staggered lock down might have been better"
Am similar, erring on caution may be the better option..
Looks like following the science is out the window.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc? "
70,000??
The scientists who are kicking off are all quoting around 8000. Unless you have a source they don't have?
It's still ridiculously high though as too many aren't even sticking to current rules. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
Two with underlying health issues told no resus and no ventilation..
How old were they ? A rough age if you don't want to be exact
One 59 and the other 86.."
That is scary, the first is my age  |
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"
Two with underlying health issues told no resus and no ventilation..
How old were they ? A rough age if you don't want to be exact
One 59 and the other 86..
That is scary, the first is my age "
Very.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am half and half, I know we have to lift the lock down but it seems a lot of unlocking next week when there doesn't seem much confidence in the track and trace on account there is no APP yet and the infections are high still
Maybe a more staggered lock down might have been better"
Why would you want a app to track and trace you everywhere to impose on your freedoms, just cause the virus come from there don't mean we need there communist system |
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I've knew three that have died and a further five hospitalised. Wife and I both had symptoms but tested negative however both suffered bacterial problems as a result which were treated through Anti biotics. Personally I believe whikstcaxsecindcwace may happen steps now put in.place will hopefully reduce figures. |
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It's moved around a fair bit, from high levels in London, then Birmingham and West Midlands and now parts of the North West.
The SAGE group is a mixed range of specialies but several of the medical specialists are for not rushing to relax, until more pregnant and certain that the R level is lower |
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By *andrxCouple
over a year ago
bedford |
"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
My cousin sadly lost his battle with the virus and also my friends partner, another friend tested positive although she had no symptoms "
Altho it's awful I didn't grasp the reality and seriousness of it all because "I didn't know anyone or anyone who knew anyone that had been infected" . Unfortunately 2 people I know (48 and 43 ) have died from it and my neice (30) has contracted it , now it all seems very real . |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Why do you think there wouldn't be ?
The cycle of viruses is pretty well known"
If thats the case we should have plenty of warning as guess it will follow the same path as before. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The majority of what numpty Boris has come up with is to try and deflect all attention from the Cummings issue. Cummings quite obviously has a lot of dirt on Boris . I believe the science not the government |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The majority of what numpty Boris has come up with is to try and deflect all attention from the Cummings issue. Cummings quite obviously has a lot of dirt on Boris . I believe the science not the government "
So do you think we should still be in lockdown?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sorry didnt answer that bit  Schools shouldnt be re opening in my opinion that is a mistake . Gentle easing of lockdown measures is what is required but i think it's going a bit quick and that's because of Cummings . I do agree though that we really dont need a second spike during the winter. Stay safe |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain"
Because estimated R is 0.7 to 1. Schools returning is predicted to increase R by about 0.3. It is therefore likely R will be above 1 from Monday which means a second peak. Figures from Sage and independant sage.
I hope the modelling is wrong and we don't have a 2nd peak. |
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
Because estimated R is 0.7 to 1. Schools returning is predicted to increase R by about 0.3. It is therefore likely R will be above 1 from Monday which means a second peak. Figures from Sage and independant sage.
I hope the modelling is wrong and we don't have a 2nd peak."
To be fair that 0.3 rise is reopening schools pretty much fully. Hardly any schools have reopened and only a few children have gone back. Schools are saying that they won't be fully opened even in September. |
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The R rate is made up of 3 components, hospitals, carehomes and community, the government must know that the community R rate is less than 0.5 or they wouldn't take the risk of opening up and having to double back, I've also heard most of it now is now in hospitals and care homes |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
These figures are confusing. 70,000 per week, 8000 daily or if we go by the daily briefings, there's declining rises of just over 2000 new infections from previous day (I understand this would be UK wide). Anyone care to clear it up or give some links?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
Because estimated R is 0.7 to 1. Schools returning is predicted to increase R by about 0.3. It is therefore likely R will be above 1 from Monday which means a second peak. Figures from Sage and independant sage.
I hope the modelling is wrong and we don't have a 2nd peak.
To be fair that 0.3 rise is reopening schools pretty much fully. Hardly any schools have reopened and only a few children have gone back. Schools are saying that they won't be fully opened even in September. "
The modelling for the .03 is based on Schools opening for the year groups as per govt pland. Fortunately grass roots pressure is keeping many closed or delayed and many parents aren't sending kids back.
My hope is that peoples response rather than govt plans means the R number stays below 1. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The R rate is made up of 3 components, hospitals, carehomes and community, the government must know that the community R rate is less than 0.5 or they wouldn't take the risk of opening up and having to double back, I've also heard most of it now is now in hospitals and care homes "
Independant Sage who publish all there research suggest waiting for Schools to partly open wider until the 15th June. Many Sage scientists are worried now as well. |
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
Because estimated R is 0.7 to 1. Schools returning is predicted to increase R by about 0.3. It is therefore likely R will be above 1 from Monday which means a second peak. Figures from Sage and independant sage.
I hope the modelling is wrong and we don't have a 2nd peak.
To be fair that 0.3 rise is reopening schools pretty much fully. Hardly any schools have reopened and only a few children have gone back. Schools are saying that they won't be fully opened even in September.
The modelling for the .03 is based on Schools opening for the year groups as per govt pland. Fortunately grass roots pressure is keeping many closed or delayed and many parents aren't sending kids back.
My hope is that peoples response rather than govt plans means the R number stays below 1. "
I fear we're at a point where we have to rely on mass civil disobedience to not have a huge surge soon. |
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True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
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"I'm with the science on this, one scientist from sage has said we cannot track and trace the current numbers of infections..
"
"We can't do this (although other countries can, without too many problems) so we're giving up trying to control it. As you were and if you end up dead, well, oh look, Dom's running out of the door to distract you again!!!"
Not measuring something can't in any way whatseover be called 'following the science."The UK's "science" or SAGE, which isn't all scientists and includes....Dominic Cummings..... has been very different to other countries' science. Which is why the UK death rate is so many multiples higher than any other country.
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By *69BANMan
over a year ago
Reading |
"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
"
Says person with no background in working in science. |
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Just been down the local River any spot that conceivably used for bathing is taken by big groups.
Saw some PCSOs come down and look on aghast.
Couple this with the beaches. Raves in London and protests then I expect the rate of infection to go up again.
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"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
"
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true. |
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"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true. "
I'm not a scientist but vilifying scientists at the moment seems the worst thing we can do. |
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By *arkb73Man
over a year ago
Cheshire/Staffs |
"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
There is a theory that this is the second wave ... The first so small it didn't register .. as cases have been recorded in Europe in December ... Only a theory mind .."
Yes I’ve come across that one. |
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Our friend tested positive, mild to medium symptoms.
Lives with husband who has just finished cancer treatment end of last year, he's fine.
It's all very strange, on paper living together he should have been infected.
Great they are both well.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true.
I'm not a scientist but vilifying scientists at the moment seems the worst thing we can do."
Scientists can only go by the information they get,who's to say that information is correct. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true.
I'm not a scientist but vilifying scientists at the moment seems the worst thing we can do."
Welcome to the new dark ages where knowledge and expertise is no match for gullible dangerous fools. Ignorance and idiocy are now badges of honour to be proudly displayed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true.
I'm not a scientist but vilifying scientists at the moment seems the worst thing we can do.
Welcome to the new dark ages where knowledge and expertise is no match for gullible dangerous fools. Ignorance and idiocy are now badges of honour to be proudly displayed."
If the dark age is asking questions and not following everything without question, then roll on the dark ages. |
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"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true.
I'm not a scientist but vilifying scientists at the moment seems the worst thing we can do.
Welcome to the new dark ages where knowledge and expertise is no match for gullible dangerous fools. Ignorance and idiocy are now badges of honour to be proudly displayed.If the dark age is asking questions and not following everything without question, then roll on the dark ages."
Asking questions is important. But there's a difference between denialism/ not recognising expertise and helpful critique or engagement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes I agree on that I know hundreds of people personally around different parts of UK I do know of 1 who's died from it and one who's recovered but so hard to understand how I don't know many more or friends don't know more |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
My cousin died of coved
Did he live anywhere near a 5g tower by any chance"
No & the worlds not flat either  |
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"Yes I agree on that I know hundreds of people personally around different parts of UK I do know of 1 who's died from it and one who's recovered but so hard to understand how I don't know many more or friends don't know more"
That's because the estimates are under 10% of the population have had it so far. |
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I'm old enough to remember government ministers from Scotland and England on morning news, when questioned about steriophinics concerts, Cheltenham festival and the Liverpool football match, going ahead, defending by saying "we followed the science"
Figures are in and are showing up tick in hospital cases in Cheltenham and Liverpool
So either the science was wrong, just like all the so called "models" or the governments didn't follow the science. Can't have it both ways. |
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"I'm old enough to remember government ministers from Scotland and England on morning news, when questioned about steriophinics concerts, Cheltenham festival and the Liverpool football match, going ahead, defending by saying "we followed the science"
Figures are in and are showing up tick in hospital cases in Cheltenham and Liverpool
So either the science was wrong, just like all the so called "models" or the governments didn't follow the science. Can't have it both ways. "
Or it could be unrelated. There's no evidence either way |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true.
I'm not a scientist but vilifying scientists at the moment seems the worst thing we can do.
Welcome to the new dark ages where knowledge and expertise is no match for gullible dangerous fools. Ignorance and idiocy are now badges of honour to be proudly displayed.If the dark age is asking questions and not following everything without question, then roll on the dark ages.
Asking questions is important. But there's a difference between denialism/ not recognising expertise and helpful critique or engagement. "
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
- Issac Assimov |
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By *69BANMan
over a year ago
Reading |
"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true.
I'm not a scientist but vilifying scientists at the moment seems the worst thing we can do.
Welcome to the new dark ages where knowledge and expertise is no match for gullible dangerous fools. Ignorance and idiocy are now badges of honour to be proudly displayed.If the dark age is asking questions and not following everything without question, then roll on the dark ages."
It also depends on the question and how its asked. From your comment 'roll on the dark ages' demonstrates you may already have a problem with answers that disagree with your position. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"True but scientists have virus tunnel vision that's their job.. probably live in Nice houses and have been on a full paycheck throughout, LBC Have just been talking about the un intended consequences of lockdown /shattered economy and thousands of deaths in the pipeline for years to come.
I am a scientist and i have neither a nice house or a full pay check. The scientists are telling you it like it is if or you the government don't like what they are saying doesn't stop it being true.
I'm not a scientist but vilifying scientists at the moment seems the worst thing we can do.
Welcome to the new dark ages where knowledge and expertise is no match for gullible dangerous fools. Ignorance and idiocy are now badges of honour to be proudly displayed.If the dark age is asking questions and not following everything without question, then roll on the dark ages.
It also depends on the question and how its asked. From your comment 'roll on the dark ages' demonstrates you may already have a problem with answers that disagree with your position."
Ask the experts a question and they answer with a 100 words that say we're not sure, then they say you have to do as we say because we know best? |
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"Ask the experts a question and they answer with a 100 words that say we're not sure, then they say you have to do as we say because we know best? "
... That's generally what happens with expertise. Things become less certain the more detailed things become.
It's uncomfortable, but it's reality. I'd rather our best guess than some confidently proclaimed crap. |
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Almost every other pandemic has done and normally the second kills more than the first! "
But we’ve never locked down or socially distanced like this before. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain"
3 countries praised for their initial response are Singapore, South Korea and Japan. All are used to dealing with initial outbreaks. All had 2nd waves.
Impossible for us to avoid a 2nd wave. |
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
3 countries praised for their initial response are Singapore, South Korea and Japan. All are used to dealing with initial outbreaks. All had 2nd waves.
Impossible for us to avoid a 2nd wave. "
I don't knkw who told you that, but I just checked the figures for all three and I don't see a ripple never mind a wave  |
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
3 countries praised for their initial response are Singapore, South Korea and Japan. All are used to dealing with initial outbreaks. All had 2nd waves.
Impossible for us to avoid a 2nd wave.
I don't knkw who told you that, but I just checked the figures for all three and I don't see a ripple never mind a wave "
European CDC daily new case figure spikes show different country's clear waves, "wave" is a blanket term it may only last a couple of days and be quickly managed or it could be disasterous and last for weeks. South Korea's most recent one was 80 new cases in the same warehouse, which prompted a spike in their new infection levels |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These figures are confusing. 70,000 per week, 8000 daily or if we go by the daily briefings, there's declining rises of just over 2000 new infections from previous day (I understand this would be UK wide). Anyone care to clear it up or give some links?
"
70,000 are the total currently infected...as quoted by OP. NOT daily infections.
2000 (hive or take a few) are new tested positive on the day... as given in briefing figures.
8000 are daily new cases as estimated by ONS including asymptomatic/not had a test |
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"These figures are confusing. 70,000 per week, 8000 daily or if we go by the daily briefings, there's declining rises of just over 2000 new infections from previous day (I understand this would be UK wide). Anyone care to clear it up or give some links?
"
The figures given on the daily briefing (Approx 2000) are the number of people that have tested positive in the last 24 hours. However, not everybody is being tested and people are also assymptomatic. By motoring a certain number of households they have estimated that the actual number of daily cases is about 4 times the tested value (ie about 8000).
|
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Almost every other pandemic has done and normally the second kills more than the first!
But we’ve never locked down or socially distanced like this before."
Really? We have had legislation about notifiable diseases and the power to quarantine for dcades.
|
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Almost every other pandemic has done and normally the second kills more than the first!
But we’ve never locked down or socially distanced like this before.Really? We have had legislation about notifiable diseases and the power to quarantine for dcades.
"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We have the highest obesity rates in Europe and we also have a large elderly population, we are also over populated /sqm, so it is no surprise we have a high death rate not sure why anyone is questioning it.
I will use the tracking system, why wouldn't I, I have a grandchild who is in the vulnerable catagory so I will do whatever it takes to keep him safe and others in the same situation, those who refuse to use the tracking system are selfish and not thinking about the bigger picture.. |
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Heres a fact ive a friend whos best friend died of cancer ,he was only in hospital 2 days and they put covid19 on the death certificate, he died of cancer not virus, the doc said they have been told to put covid on all death certificates regardless of how they died, they have been told from a top person to do this ,this has happened to 2 other families as well ,so the death rate is probably a lot lower than what the government are saying ,also no autopsys are being done ,its sad for families that have died due to virus, ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
3 countries praised for their initial response are Singapore, South Korea and Japan. All are used to dealing with initial outbreaks. All had 2nd waves.
Impossible for us to avoid a 2nd wave.
I don't knkw who told you that, but I just checked the figures for all three and I don't see a ripple never mind a wave "
Japan had their first wave early. A few weeks ago they then declared anational emergency and restricted travel in Tokyo.
Singapore has one of ge tightest tracking systems in the world. They are currently in their 2nd wave with this mostly in immigrant dorms.
As next post after yours said, South Korea had a large outbreak - for them - in the night club sector.
All 3 countries have been far more effective than us at controlling than we have. When you see pictures of parks, beaches and town centres it is inevitable that we will get a heavy 2nd wave.
In fact in some places such as Birmingham you could argue the first wave is still ongoing. They still have very full ICUs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
To much nonsense being spoken. Too many 'my mate said this' or 'bloke on facebook said that'. People moan we went into lockdown too late. Had we gone lockdown 2 weeks prior it would have been the wrong choice. Spent 3 weeks in hospital with it myself.. and its nasty... left.with damaged lungs and threat of pneumonia everytime i get a cold / flu.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To much nonsense being spoken. Too many 'my mate said this' or 'bloke on facebook said that'. People moan we went into lockdown too late. Had we gone lockdown 2 weeks prior it would have been the wrong choice. Spent 3 weeks in hospital with it myself.. and its nasty... left.with damaged lungs and threat of pneumonia everytime i get a cold / flu.. "
Or you could listen to my cousin who is a senior ICU nurse that has held ge hands of double figure people as they have died.
Or you could follow the science that clearly demonstrates the multiple of thousands that have suffered due to Cheltenham Festival and the LFC v Athletico game |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To much nonsense being spoken. Too many 'my mate said this' or 'bloke on facebook said that'. People moan we went into lockdown too late. Had we gone lockdown 2 weeks prior it would have been the wrong choice. Spent 3 weeks in hospital with it myself.. and its nasty... left.with damaged lungs and threat of pneumonia everytime i get a cold / flu..
Or you could listen to my cousin who is a senior ICU nurse that has held ge hands of double figure people as they have died.
Or you could follow the science that clearly demonstrates the multiple of thousands that have suffered due to Cheltenham Festival and the LFC v Athletico game"
It’s funny how the science always comes up with 2 outdoor events. But the week before there was a bigger event that was inside and people came from all over the world. But no reported cases.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To much nonsense being spoken. Too many 'my mate said this' or 'bloke on facebook said that'. People moan we went into lockdown too late. Had we gone lockdown 2 weeks prior it would have been the wrong choice. Spent 3 weeks in hospital with it myself.. and its nasty... left.with damaged lungs and threat of pneumonia everytime i get a cold / flu..
Or you could listen to my cousin who is a senior ICU nurse that has held ge hands of double figure people as they have died.
Or you could follow the science that clearly demonstrates the multiple of thousands that have suffered due to Cheltenham Festival and the LFC v Athletico game
It’s funny how the science always comes up with 2 outdoor events. But the week before there was a bigger event that was inside and people came from all over the world. But no reported cases...."
It is amazing how two hot spots in Spain and Italy had a full football game just before they became hotspots. |
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
3 countries praised for their initial response are Singapore, South Korea and Japan. All are used to dealing with initial outbreaks. All had 2nd waves.
Impossible for us to avoid a 2nd wave.
I don't knkw who told you that, but I just checked the figures for all three and I don't see a ripple never mind a wave
European CDC daily new case figure spikes show different country's clear waves, "wave" is a blanket term it may only last a couple of days and be quickly managed or it could be disasterous and last for weeks. South Korea's most recent one was 80 new cases in the same warehouse, which prompted a spike in their new infection levels "
An isolated ripple then lol |
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
3 countries praised for their initial response are Singapore, South Korea and Japan. All are used to dealing with initial outbreaks. All had 2nd waves.
Impossible for us to avoid a 2nd wave.
I don't knkw who told you that, but I just checked the figures for all three and I don't see a ripple never mind a wave
Japan had their first wave early. A few weeks ago they then declared anational emergency and restricted travel in Tokyo.
Singapore has one of ge tightest tracking systems in the world. They are currently in their 2nd wave with this mostly in immigrant dorms.
As next post after yours said, South Korea had a large outbreak - for them - in the night club sector.
All 3 countries have been far more effective than us at controlling than we have. When you see pictures of parks, beaches and town centres it is inevitable that we will get a heavy 2nd wave.
In fact in some places such as Birmingham you could argue the first wave is still ongoing. They still have very full ICUs."
So no secomd wave in those 3 countries after all then |
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Because a few still have a brain
3 countries praised for their initial response are Singapore, South Korea and Japan. All are used to dealing with initial outbreaks. All had 2nd waves.
Impossible for us to avoid a 2nd wave.
I don't knkw who told you that, but I just checked the figures for all three and I don't see a ripple never mind a wave
Japan had their first wave early. A few weeks ago they then declared anational emergency and restricted travel in Tokyo.
Singapore has one of ge tightest tracking systems in the world. They are currently in their 2nd wave with this mostly in immigrant dorms.
As next post after yours said, South Korea had a large outbreak - for them - in the night club sector.
All 3 countries have been far more effective than us at controlling than we have. When you see pictures of parks, beaches and town centres it is inevitable that we will get a heavy 2nd wave.
In fact in some places such as Birmingham you could argue the first wave is still ongoing. They still have very full ICUs."
So no secomd wave in those 3 countries after all then |
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I think it's going to fluctuate for some time untill a vaccine is found so I think we'll keep lifting and locking for sometime yet. I have no idea when the right time is or if they'll ever be 1. What i do find strange is that I dont directly know anyone whose been confirmed infected or died (thank god) but in all the thousands that's lost their lives you'd think more of us would know someone that's passed? Very strange to me
My cousin sadly lost his battle with the virus and also my friends partner, another friend tested positive although she had no symptoms "
Now that is spooky?
Positive with no symptoms sounds scary as as far as I can make out that's what all the isolation has been based on?"If you show symptoms lock yourself away?" If that's the case I worry how many others are infectious without even knowing it? Sounds like a hidden bomb to me? Hopefully they'll roll out mass, quickly verified testing asap so we'll all actually be safer than at present? Good luck everyone! |
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Just got my antibody test back 2 days wait, seems ok to me.
No antibody, so free from virus.
Don't really know how to respond, happy to be clear so I can look forward to be infected at a later date or sad.
So, all clear unless I've been infected in the 2 days since the test..... |
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"Just got my antibody test back 2 days wait, seems ok to me.
No antibody, so free from virus.
Don't really know how to respond, happy to be clear so I can look forward to be infected at a later date or sad.
So, all clear unless I've been infected in the 2 days since the test..... "
I thought for the antibody test to be accurate it needs to be minimum of 14 days after infection. Takes time for antibody levels to build up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm with the science on this, one scientist from sage has said we cannot track and trace the current numbers of infections..
That if its true does not sound good, I think this announcement by boris etc is more about deflection from cummings and some popular good news rather than listening to the science which they have said they will and have done..
Agree to this
"
 |
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"Just got my antibody test back 2 days wait, seems ok to me.
No antibody, so free from virus.
Don't really know how to respond, happy to be clear so I can look forward to be infected at a later date or sad.
So, all clear unless I've been infected in the 2 days since the test..... "
was it an antibody or test to see if you have covid.. as antibody test you would rather get a positive as it proves you have had it... and early research suggests there is little chance of reinfection x |
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"It was an antibody test.
Agree with you, probably best result was to show I'd had it, never thought I'd welcome a virus...
"
I'm really waiting for this... as I am sure I had the virus back in December x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Are you saying there won't be?
"
I'm saying I think it will burn itself out |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Are you saying there won't be?
I'm saying I think it will burn itself out "
im with you there just like sars did doctors in italy seem to think its weakening. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus
Are you saying there won't be?
I'm saying I think it will burn itself out im with you there just like sars did doctors in italy seem to think its weakening."
They are saying it acting more like a mild flu virus, more research needed but looking good. |
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Problems with using R as a guide. If 100 people have Covid and pass it on to 100. Total 200 you have a R factor of 1. Same if 1 person passes to 1 R factor 1. Percentages. Birmingham at present 22 in 100,000. Population 2.5milliin (est guess) therefore 660 people with the bug. Smaller town population 90,000 with higher ratio of 30 per 100000. Therefore only 27 people. London states dilberately split down into smaller areas to reduce numbers. What's real what isn't? |
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I'm absolutely convinced there won't be a second wave.
Think the first one may continue to raise its head when we let our guard down and stop following those extremely difficult requests, like washing hands regularly and keeping a couple of meters apart.
It would be great if the dying element of the virus could be curtailed and to be fair the death rate is reduced, is this from our intervention or a weakening of the virus, I've got no idea. |
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By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
"I'm absolutely convinced there won't be a second wave.
Think the first one may continue to raise its head when we let our guard down and stop following those extremely difficult requests, like washing hands regularly and keeping a couple of meters apart.
Do you believe the earth is flat?
It would be great if the dying element of the virus could be curtailed and to be fair the death rate is reduced, is this from our intervention or a weakening of the virus, I've got no idea. "
. Do you believe the earth is flat?? |
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By *on12xxMan
over a year ago
leeds |
"I'm absolutely convinced there won't be a second wave.
Think the first one may continue to raise its head when we let our guard down and stop following those extremely difficult requests, like washing hands regularly and keeping a couple of meters apart.
It would be great if the dying element of the virus could be curtailed and to be fair the death rate is reduced, is this from our intervention or a weakening of the virus, I've got no idea. "
. Rate only low cis young people catching and not going to hospital...
Once school mix parents, and grandparents will get it and hospital adm and death rates, will sadly sore
. Apart you think earth is flat
U seem to believe u turn Boris
If you believe Boris your judgement and decision making is poor or even pathetic |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm absolutely convinced there won't be a second wave.
Think the first one may continue to raise its head when we let our guard down and stop following those extremely difficult requests, like washing hands regularly and keeping a couple of meters apart.
It would be great if the dying element of the virus could be curtailed and to be fair the death rate is reduced, is this from our intervention or a weakening of the virus, I've got no idea.
. Rate only low cis young people catching and not going to hospital...
Once school mix parents, and grandparents will get it and hospital adm and death rates, will sadly sore
. Apart you think earth is flat
U seem to believe u turn Boris
If you believe Boris your judgement and decision making is poor or even pathetic "
You do have a habit of making generalised opinions on people you know nothing bout don't you. |
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By *om girlCouple (FF)
over a year ago
South Yorkshire |
"Why are people in these forums so certain that there will be a second wave of the virus "
They will be a second wave of corona/flu coz people die of flu and flu related illnesses every year but instead of common flu they calling it corona
Becaue why the second spike not come yet when more people are getting infected and desth rate low
Coz at this time of year death rste drops |
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"I'm absolutely convinced there won't be a second wave.
Think the first one may continue to raise its head when we let our guard down and stop following those extremely difficult requests, like washing hands regularly and keeping a couple of meters apart.
Do you believe the earth is flat?
It would be great if the dying element of the virus could be curtailed and to be fair the death rate is reduced, is this from our intervention or a weakening of the virus, I've got no idea.
. Do you believe the earth is flat?? "
No, can't see what that has to do with anything.
Read our post again.
Thanks. |
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc? "
I genuinely don't believe we have any true idea of what the rates are.
To get an actual figure we'd need to test many many more and antibody test many many more.
Without knowing how many people actually have covid (not just those showing symptoms and bothering/able to get a test) and a better understanding of how many people have had it (either with or without symptoms) no math will add up or be real. |
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"It's about 70,000 a week currently and many on Sage say the 'lifting' of certain lockdown measures is likely to try and manage an 'R' at one. If this is the case would you rather this until autumn or to suppress the virus as in New Zealand etc?
I genuinely don't believe we have any true idea of what the rates are.
To get an actual figure we'd need to test many many more and antibody test many many more.
Without knowing how many people actually have covid (not just those showing symptoms and bothering/able to get a test) and a better understanding of how many people have had it (either with or without symptoms) no math will add up or be real."
There's are nationwide antibody test studies going on. I'm part of it for UK Biobank. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wonder how many of those rioting or protesting have caught it or died from it are there any official figures on them? And why hasn’t China been prosecuted for starting all this crap!!
Viruses, flus, pneumonia and other contagious diseases will always be on this planet and spread, it’s nature’s way, but this one was man made and released with an agenda! In time it will all come out in the wash!! Pity a whole load of people will have to die before questions are asked!! |
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"I wonder how many of those rioting or protesting have caught it or died from it are there any official figures on them? And why hasn’t China been prosecuted for starting all this crap!!
Viruses, flus, pneumonia and other contagious diseases will always be on this planet and spread, it’s nature’s way, but this one was man made and released with an agenda! In time it will all come out in the wash!! Pity a whole load of people will have to die before questions are asked!!"
It will be an interesting day at the West London Magistartes Courts when Rumpole of the Bailey rise to his feet to defend China on charges of causing a global pandemic. Seriously, what court do you think could be the appropriate venue for a prosecution of a country for being the first place to be hit by an unpredictable and novel pandemic? I realise you really do believe the mad conspiracy theory stuff aboutthe virus being manmade and so on, but for Pete's sake, don't embarass yourself by talking as if China can be prosecuted in the same way as, say, a butcher being nicked for selling a batch of dodgy pies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wonder how many of those rioting or protesting have caught it or died from it are there any official figures on them? And why hasn’t China been prosecuted for starting all this crap!!
Viruses, flus, pneumonia and other contagious diseases will always be on this planet and spread, it’s nature’s way, but this one was man made and released with an agenda! In time it will all come out in the wash!! Pity a whole load of people will have to die before questions are asked!!"
Sorry....just read this and nearly pissed myself laughing.....
Apart from the absolute factual nonsense....when was the last time a country was taken to court? And China....wtf? |
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"I wonder how many of those rioting or protesting have caught it or died from it are there any official figures on them? And why hasn’t China been prosecuted for starting all this crap!!
Viruses, flus, pneumonia and other contagious diseases will always be on this planet and spread, it’s nature’s way, but this one was man made and released with an agenda! In time it will all come out in the wash!! Pity a whole load of people will have to die before questions are asked!!It will be an interesting day at the West London Magistartes Courts when Rumpole of the Bailey rise to his feet to defend China on charges of causing a global pandemic. Seriously, what court do you think could be the appropriate venue for a prosecution of a country for being the first place to be hit by an unpredictable and novel pandemic? I realise you really do believe the mad conspiracy theory stuff aboutthe virus being manmade and so on, but for Pete's sake, don't embarass yourself by talking as if China can be prosecuted in the same way as, say, a butcher being nicked for selling a batch of dodgy pies."
Well, if not China as a whole, how about the fella who first made up a batch of sweet and sour bat, he'll do for me. |
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"I wonder how many of those rioting or protesting have caught it or died from it are there any official figures on them? And why hasn’t China been prosecuted for starting all this crap!!
Viruses, flus, pneumonia and other contagious diseases will always be on this planet and spread, it’s nature’s way, but this one was man made and released with an agenda! In time it will all come out in the wash!! Pity a whole load of people will have to die before questions are asked!!It will be an interesting day at the West London Magistartes Courts when Rumpole of the Bailey rise to his feet to defend China on charges of causing a global pandemic. Seriously, what court do you think could be the appropriate venue for a prosecution of a country for being the first place to be hit by an unpredictable and novel pandemic? I realise you really do believe the mad conspiracy theory stuff aboutthe virus being manmade and so on, but for Pete's sake, don't embarass yourself by talking as if China can be prosecuted in the same way as, say, a butcher being nicked for selling a batch of dodgy pies."
Be like the Spartacus inspired scene in the life of Brian..
I'm China.. |
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