 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
We used to use a graph to compare ourselves to other countries when we were lower to them in the death rate.
No we are far higher then all countries in Europe with only America above us in the whole world!
We have ditched them.
Does this say a lot about the way our government have dealt with this? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"We used to use a graph to compare ourselves to other countries when we were lower to them in the death rate.
No we are far higher then all countries in Europe with only America above us in the whole world!
We have ditched them.
Does this say a lot about the way our government have dealt with this?"
Information (mis)management. It’s how this government rolls, but too few call it out - including most of the media. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Every country appear to be giving inaccurate death figures..
The Metro today has a headline of 40,000 deaths...I guess we will never get any true figures whether it be China, UK or anywhere else..
The toll is too many that's all I know. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"We used to use a graph to compare ourselves to other countries when we were lower to them in the death rate.
No we are far higher then all countries in Europe with only America above us in the whole world!
We have ditched them.
Does this say a lot about the way our government have dealt with this?
Information (mis)management. It’s how this government rolls, but too few call it out - including most of the media."
Starmar just did in prime minister's questions....just got a lot of waffle back though.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Information (mis)management. It’s how this government rolls, but too few call it out - including most of the media.
Starmar just did in prime minister's questions....just got a lot of waffle back though.
"
Starmer has just requested in writing that Johnson returns to the Commons to correct an untrue answer he gave at PMQs an hour ago.
He's just lied to us to make a difficult question go away. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Information (mis)management. It’s how this government rolls, but too few call it out - including most of the media.
Starmar just did in prime minister's questions....just got a lot of waffle back though.
Starmer has just requested in writing that Johnson returns to the Commons to correct an untrue answer he gave at PMQs an hour ago.
He's just lied to us to make a difficult question go away."
Well I for one am shocked. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Information (mis)management. It’s how this government rolls, but too few call it out - including most of the media.
Starmar just did in prime minister's questions....just got a lot of waffle back though.
Starmer has just requested in writing that Johnson returns to the Commons to correct an untrue answer he gave at PMQs an hour ago.
He's just lied to us to make a difficult question go away.
Well I for one am shocked."
Me also..
Boris fib?
Perish the very thought.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
Information (mis)management. It’s how this government rolls, but too few call it out - including most of the media.
Starmar just did in prime minister's questions....just got a lot of waffle back though.
Starmer has just requested in writing that Johnson returns to the Commons to correct an untrue answer he gave at PMQs an hour ago.
He's just lied to us to make a difficult question go away."
Just had a look...true to form
And here's a link before asked
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/coronavirus-uk-live-updates-lockdown-death-toll-latest-a4438976.html |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"And are we wondering why Mogg is calling on MPs to “set an example” and get back to Westminster? So Johnson will have his braying mob behind him and his advisers to whisper in his ear."
He is totally lost without his little gang  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"And are we wondering why Mogg is calling on MPs to “set an example” and get back to Westminster? So Johnson will have his braying mob behind him and his advisers to whisper in his ear.
He is totally lost without his little gang "
Indeed - the longer this element continues, the better. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage."
You're right, it's not a competition. But Starmer bringing up the stopping of comparisons as soon as we move into the top spot shows Johnson up along with his clusterfuck.
He is putting public relations above public health. He is happy for your neighbour to die just as long as you don't tell anyone about it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage."
No, it's not a competition but incompetence has killed people. If you don't call it out, more people will die than need to. Starmer is doing what an opposition leader should do, holding the government to account. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
media might not be but piers has been doing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqhZtz7Uc34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2vyuQprnQ
piers mentions a graph on above video seen at voxpolitical Nearly 60,000 dead in UK because of Covid-19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DwPv244gjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QeC4wd7vKc
There all an interseting watch |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage.
No, it's not a competition but incompetence has killed people. If you don't call it out, more people will die than need to. Starmer is doing what an opposition leader should do, holding the government to account."
Nobody expected perfection. But a mild degree of competence would have been nice. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage.
No, it's not a competition but incompetence has killed people. If you don't call it out, more people will die than need to. Starmer is doing what an opposition leader should do, holding the government to account.
Nobody expected perfection. But a mild degree of competence would have been nice. "
And honesty, not fiddling stats.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage.
No, it's not a competition but incompetence has killed people. If you don't call it out, more people will die than need to. Starmer is doing what an opposition leader should do, holding the government to account.
Nobody expected perfection. But a mild degree of competence would have been nice.
And honesty, not fiddling stats.."
Honesty is to politician as fish is to bicycle. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Starmer minced him at PMQs.....was a car crash for Boris"
Two in a row now. Next week he’s going for the hat-trick. On the old ITV wrestling bouts, two falls, two submissions or a knockout to decide the winner. Starmer has already delivered 12 knockouts with his questions. Boris is do out of his depth and in his refuting of facts, he is deliberately misleading Parliament. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage."
You realise upto this week the gmnt put out stats comparing us to other countries ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage.
You realise upto this week the gmnt put out stats comparing us to other countries ?"
Welcome back to the fold  Nice to see you  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage.
You realise upto this week the gmnt put out stats comparing us to other countries ?
Welcome back to the fold Nice to see you "
Wont be for long |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I've always been a swing voter, no pun intended, and closely monitor what goes on. To be honest Kier Stammer has made Boris squirm more in a couple of weeks than Corbyn did in his entire tenure to any PM.
However, it goes to show what a screwed up situation this all is when the Government gets criticised for such a high number of deaths, but on the same forums people are asking who wants to meet up for a 'walk'  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"80 seat majority the labour party still in disarray, the government don't give a shit. They all piss in the same bucket anyway. "
The scales are starting fall from people's eyes regarding Boris.....the Emperor really is stark bollock naked.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"80 seat majority the labour party still in disarray, the government don't give a shit. They all piss in the same bucket anyway. "
Which means that he can get pretty much any legislation he wants through parliament. Not much use when all his 20 hours a week are taken up by this, and that 80 seat majority will be the ones to turn on him. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Keir Starmer reduced the PM to a blubbering wreck, spouting word salad, when giving him 6 simple questions to answer, including this one about the disappeared International graphs showing how bad things are. We're being sent out to die, as long as some of the conservative party donors can start to get a return on their investments into the party.
Watch the channel 4 programme from earlier tonight, comparing the steps that South Korea took, matched with the daily steps that the UK took. Shocking! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An awful lot of people are dying all over the world and it's not a competition and it's far from over
No government got it perfect and it's pointless trying to compare them at this stage."
This is exactly the argument put forward by the government when we reached the top of the European Death Rate list
And every day up until that point at the Daily Briefing, they included a slide comparing Death Rates with other nations.
Keir Starmer called Boris out on that one too, but it got waffled away... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We should be looking at deaths per age group. If you do that, you'll see just how badly our Government has failed the elderly. More than 80% of Covid deaths were people aged over 70. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I normally vote Conservative but impressed by Starmer so far. His consudered, not over the top, measured and polite approach will bring Labour many votes if he continues like he has started.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago
Masked and Distant |
Sure this should be in the bash the government forum not the virus forum.
Look at worldometer data and look at number of deaths compared to confirmed cases, UK around 13% similar to whole world apart from Russia who despite being 2nd in world for cases has deaths at 1% !!!
Then look at cases per 1million of population, and deaths per 1 million of population, then try and take into account the population density of the different countries (not on worldometer), then the age of the populations of the different countries (not on worldometer).
Easy this country comparison lark isn't it?
Why dont we all do something to help instead of just blaming others. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Sure this should be in the bash the government forum not the virus forum.
Look at worldometer data and look at number of deaths compared to confirmed cases, UK around 13% similar to whole world apart from Russia who despite being 2nd in world for cases has deaths at 1% !!!
Then look at cases per 1million of population, and deaths per 1 million of population, then try and take into account the population density of the different countries (not on worldometer), then the age of the populations of the different countries (not on worldometer).
Easy this country comparison lark isn't it?
Why dont we all do something to help instead of just blaming others."
I'll tell you why it's in the virus and not political...its because of the sudden way the Gov't used the graph when it suited them,then dropped it as some as we look like becoming the worst on the planet for cov-19.
This is serious but boris and co are just running the whole thing as a PR operation...and they have been found out to failing the British people(mainly the elderly) in a massive way. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better. "
I think that 1st sentence is quite self explanatory.
The labour issue for about the millionth time is irrelevant. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've always been a swing voter, no pun intended, and closely monitor what goes on. To be honest Kier Stammer has made Boris squirm more in a couple of weeks than Corbyn did in his entire tenure to any PM.
However, it goes to show what a screwed up situation this all is when the Government gets criticised for such a high number of deaths, but on the same forums people are asking who wants to meet up for a 'walk' "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better.
I think that 1st sentence is quite self explanatory.
The labour issue for about the millionth time is irrelevant."
We have the highest death toll in Europe.
Please try to explain this without referring to action or non action taken by the government.
Is it something in our water, sunpots, aliens.... why have we done so poorly? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"80 seat majority the labour party still in disarray, the government don't give a shit. They all piss in the same bucket anyway.
The scales are starting fall from people's eyes regarding Boris.....the Emperor really is stark bollock naked.."
Not an image I want, thanks  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better. "
NOPE. The experts advise, the govt then decides what to do. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better.
NOPE. The experts advise, the govt then decides what to do. "
Did the government follow scientific advice?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/revealed-uk-scientists-fury-over-attempt-to-censor-covid-19-advice |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Our government chose to pursue a strategy of Herd Immunity. Leaving the WHO and the rest of the world aghast at the fact that this strategy without a vaccine would lead very high casualties.
Fast forward to today and we have a heartbreakingly high death toll. Just like the experts said would happen. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"I normally vote Conservative but impressed by Starmer so far. His consudered, not over the top, measured and polite approach will bring Labour many votes if he continues like he has started.."
An electable Labour leader ... Surely not ...
Doesn't take much to outshine Boris or Corbyn tbh. But let's hope .. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The graph is pointless now. Everyone knows that the uk has got the highest rate in Europe. It was there to show the upward curve on all countries and see where we were week by week. Europe as a whole is now in a Downward direction. Deaths are going up still yes but the curve isn’t so the graph is no longer needed.
For those that want the graph what new information will it give you ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do "
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I wish I could find the thread where someone said we would never have the high death toll Italy has because we don't have as many elderly people as them and less multigenerational homesteads...
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes."
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better.
NOPE. The experts advise, the govt then decides what to do.
Did the government follow scientific advice?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/revealed-uk-scientists-fury-over-attempt-to-censor-covid-19-advice"
To me the article is irrelevant. I just don't think people should pass the blame onto the experts as they are not the decision makers. I would hope that the experts are drawn from different specialties and actually have opposing views, cos they are what are present in the big wide world. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders "
Whilst it would have been a mammoth task to close our borders, do testing at airports, provide PPE for people at airports, harbours etc Provide accommodation for quarantined returnees etc. It pales in comparison with what we were left with instead.
Other countries did it. Countries much less suited to border control and with far less resources than ourselves.
There simply are no excuses.
Btw Germany has a population of 80 million. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better.
NOPE. The experts advise, the govt then decides what to do.
Did the government follow scientific advice?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/revealed-uk-scientists-fury-over-attempt-to-censor-covid-19-advice
To me the article is irrelevant. I just don't think people should pass the blame onto the experts as they are not the decision makers. I would hope that the experts are drawn from different specialties and actually have opposing views, cos they are what are present in the big wide world. "
Ok how about this one:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus-science-who-advice
"We scientists said lock down. But UK politicians refused to listen"
I think it is very relevant when the government says we were just doing what the scientists told us. And the scientists call bullshit on that claim.
When your own government lies to you, you no longer live in a democracy. That might not worry some. But it concerns me.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders "
But the problem centering everything in London . It's too crowded which makes it a perfect storm for a pandemic. The BAME issue could not have been foreseen and I'm not sure the NHS has actually been overwhelmed , maybe ICU departments but the nightingale hospitals are unused. Routine operations are suspended too and our local hospital is very quiet.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
Whilst it would have been a mammoth task to close our borders, do testing at airports, provide PPE for people at airports, harbours etc Provide accommodation for quarantined returnees etc. It pales in comparison with what we were left with instead.
Other countries did it. Countries much less suited to border control and with far less resources than ourselves.
There simply are no excuses.
Btw Germany has a population of 80 million."
I said population density. There isn't a German city anything like as densely populated as London. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
But the problem centering everything in London . It's too crowded which makes it a perfect storm for a pandemic. The BAME issue could not have been foreseen and I'm not sure the NHS has actually been overwhelmed , maybe ICU departments but the nightingale hospitals are unused. Routine operations are suspended too and our local hospital is very quiet.
"
Dubai is only half the population of London but relies entirely on international commerce, they did it, closed the airport, closed the metro and enforced everyone staying inside, not even allowed out to exercise. Now they are getting back to normal but mask wearing is mandatory, we still don’t have enough masks even for frontline workers |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
But the problem centering everything in London . It's too crowded which makes it a perfect storm for a pandemic. The BAME issue could not have been foreseen and I'm not sure the NHS has actually been overwhelmed , maybe ICU departments but the nightingale hospitals are unused. Routine operations are suspended too and our local hospital is very quiet.
Dubai is only half the population of London but relies entirely on international commerce, they did it, closed the airport, closed the metro and enforced everyone staying inside, not even allowed out to exercise. Now they are getting back to normal but mask wearing is mandatory, we still don’t have enough masks even for frontline workers "
I agree , we should have shut down sooner. But population density is definitely a factor. If it wasn't then what is this social distancing about ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
Whilst it would have been a mammoth task to close our borders, do testing at airports, provide PPE for people at airports, harbours etc Provide accommodation for quarantined returnees etc. It pales in comparison with what we were left with instead.
Other countries did it. Countries much less suited to border control and with far less resources than ourselves.
There simply are no excuses.
Btw Germany has a population of 80 million.
I said population density. There isn't a German city anything like as densely populated as London. "
True Germany are not as dense as ourselves. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
But the problem centering everything in London . It's too crowded which makes it a perfect storm for a pandemic. The BAME issue could not have been foreseen and I'm not sure the NHS has actually been overwhelmed , maybe ICU departments but the nightingale hospitals are unused. Routine operations are suspended too and our local hospital is very quiet.
Dubai is only half the population of London but relies entirely on international commerce, they did it, closed the airport, closed the metro and enforced everyone staying inside, not even allowed out to exercise. Now they are getting back to normal but mask wearing is mandatory, we still don’t have enough masks even for frontline workers "
Dubai has a significant sovereign wealth fund to draw on. It's also hardly a free society like we have here so lockdown is way easier to enforce. On the mask point, you've already answered your own statement, they are only half the population of London, that makes it way easier to get enough PPE, we could equipment the whole of Dubai many times over with what we already have here. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
But the problem centering everything in London . It's too crowded which makes it a perfect storm for a pandemic. The BAME issue could not have been foreseen and I'm not sure the NHS has actually been overwhelmed , maybe ICU departments but the nightingale hospitals are unused. Routine operations are suspended too and our local hospital is very quiet.
"
Well your local hospitals might be quiet but where I live the infection rate is higher now then it was before we went into lockdown. We as a country are learning nothing...since Wednesday the local aldi ,home bargains and B+M stores have all stopped the queuing system and started a free for all in the stores.
That is another reason we need graphs because this is going to spike from town to town.
Mark my works on this one. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
But the problem centering everything in London . It's too crowded which makes it a perfect storm for a pandemic. The BAME issue could not have been foreseen and I'm not sure the NHS has actually been overwhelmed , maybe ICU departments but the nightingale hospitals are unused. Routine operations are suspended too and our local hospital is very quiet.
Dubai is only half the population of London but relies entirely on international commerce, they did it, closed the airport, closed the metro and enforced everyone staying inside, not even allowed out to exercise. Now they are getting back to normal but mask wearing is mandatory, we still don’t have enough masks even for frontline workers
Dubai has a significant sovereign wealth fund to draw on. It's also hardly a free society like we have here so lockdown is way easier to enforce. On the mask point, you've already answered your own statement, they are only half the population of London, that makes it way easier to get enough PPE, we could equipment the whole of Dubai many times over with what we already have here. "
Which is why it's difficult to make comparisons between countries. There will be more anomalies coming out as this situation progresses and true numbers will only become known probably next year. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"We used to use a graph to compare ourselves to other countries when we were lower to them in the death rate.
No we are far higher then all countries in Europe with only America above us in the whole world!
We have ditched them.
Does this say a lot about the way our government have dealt with this?"
No it simply means that many people do not understand total number of dead in a country does not show whether the country is doing well or not, you have to take into account the total population, the density, the age groupings, races and a hundred and one other differentials to make sense of the total death figure, even that is judged in different ways in different countries |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
Whilst it would have been a mammoth task to close our borders, do testing at airports, provide PPE for people at airports, harbours etc Provide accommodation for quarantined returnees etc. It pales in comparison with what we were left with instead.
Other countries did it. Countries much less suited to border control and with far less resources than ourselves.
There simply are no excuses.
Btw Germany has a population of 80 million.
I said population density. There isn't a German city anything like as densely populated as London.
True Germany are not as dense as ourselves. "
But Wuhan has a higher population density than London.
Perhaps measures taken to control a virus are more important than population density. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better.
NOPE. The experts advise, the govt then decides what to do.
Did the government follow scientific advice?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/revealed-uk-scientists-fury-over-attempt-to-censor-covid-19-advice
To me the article is irrelevant. I just don't think people should pass the blame onto the experts as they are not the decision makers. I would hope that the experts are drawn from different specialties and actually have opposing views, cos they are what are present in the big wide world.
Ok how about this one:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus-science-who-advice
"We scientists said lock down. But UK politicians refused to listen"
I think it is very relevant when the government says we were just doing what the scientists told us. And the scientists call bullshit on that claim.
When your own government lies to you, you no longer live in a democracy. That might not worry some. But it concerns me.
"
We're coming from the same viewpoint, that is why the articles are irrelevant. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
Whilst it would have been a mammoth task to close our borders, do testing at airports, provide PPE for people at airports, harbours etc Provide accommodation for quarantined returnees etc. It pales in comparison with what we were left with instead.
Other countries did it. Countries much less suited to border control and with far less resources than ourselves.
There simply are no excuses.
Btw Germany has a population of 80 million.
I said population density. There isn't a German city anything like as densely populated as London.
True Germany are not as dense as ourselves.
But Wuhan has a higher population density than London.
Perhaps measures taken to control a virus are more important than population density. "
And you actually believe the Chinese on numbers ? Too early to know for sure. Maybe orientals are less susceptible ? It's too early still. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
Whilst it would have been a mammoth task to close our borders, do testing at airports, provide PPE for people at airports, harbours etc Provide accommodation for quarantined returnees etc. It pales in comparison with what we were left with instead.
Other countries did it. Countries much less suited to border control and with far less resources than ourselves.
There simply are no excuses.
Btw Germany has a population of 80 million.
I said population density. There isn't a German city anything like as densely populated as London.
True Germany are not as dense as ourselves.
But Wuhan has a higher population density than London.
Perhaps measures taken to control a virus are more important than population density.
And you actually believe the Chinese on numbers ? Too early to know for sure. Maybe orientals are less susceptible ? It's too early still."
With the Chinese I suspect they may possibly be fudging the numbers.
With us I know for a fact we are fudging the numbers. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every one's knocking the government why????
It wouldn't matter who was in charge, these are politicians they know no more than anyone on here. The experts take all the information and tell the government what it should do. Or as some are saying if labour or another leader was in power,they would have been better qualified to have done things better.
NOPE. The experts advise, the govt then decides what to do.
Did the government follow scientific advice?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/revealed-uk-scientists-fury-over-attempt-to-censor-covid-19-advice
To me the article is irrelevant. I just don't think people should pass the blame onto the experts as they are not the decision makers. I would hope that the experts are drawn from different specialties and actually have opposing views, cos they are what are present in the big wide world.
Ok how about this one:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus-science-who-advice
"We scientists said lock down. But UK politicians refused to listen"
I think it is very relevant when the government says we were just doing what the scientists told us. And the scientists call bullshit on that claim.
When your own government lies to you, you no longer live in a democracy. That might not worry some. But it concerns me.
We're coming from the same viewpoint, that is why the articles are irrelevant. "
Ah ok my bad. Soz. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lansmanMan
over a year ago
Sheffield |
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
Whilst it would have been a mammoth task to close our borders, do testing at airports, provide PPE for people at airports, harbours etc Provide accommodation for quarantined returnees etc. It pales in comparison with what we were left with instead.
Other countries did it. Countries much less suited to border control and with far less resources than ourselves.
There simply are no excuses.
Btw Germany has a population of 80 million.
I said population density. There isn't a German city anything like as densely populated as London.
True Germany are not as dense as ourselves.
But Wuhan has a higher population density than London.
Perhaps measures taken to control a virus are more important than population density.
And you actually believe the Chinese on numbers ? Too early to know for sure. Maybe orientals are less susceptible ? It's too early still.
With the Chinese I suspect they may possibly be fudging the numbers.
With us I know for a fact we are fudging the numbers."
It was on sky news this week. All countries are under reporting. Italy more than us according to the report. But who knows if sky is accurate. We are a few months away from the true numbers. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have the highest death toll in the world with the exception of the US, Trump and Boris , leaders of the thick majority, democracy only really works when there’s nothing important for the leader to do
The true numbers will become known in time. Most countries are under reporting still.
Our higher numbers are bad ... But , consider the London situation , tube etc . Germany spreads it's businesses across many cities hence lower density populations and no tube . Plus we have a higher BAME population than Italy , especially in London. The government definitely fucked up by clearing hospitals and placing sick into care homes.
But we all knew this , we knew the London metro had millions of people daily sharing hand rails , we knew we had a shoe string NHS that was already struggling and we made big mistakes on strategy allowing hundreds of thousands of people through airports and metro when the rest of the world was closing its borders
Whilst it would have been a mammoth task to close our borders, do testing at airports, provide PPE for people at airports, harbours etc Provide accommodation for quarantined returnees etc. It pales in comparison with what we were left with instead.
Other countries did it. Countries much less suited to border control and with far less resources than ourselves.
There simply are no excuses.
Btw Germany has a population of 80 million.
I said population density. There isn't a German city anything like as densely populated as London.
True Germany are not as dense as ourselves.
But Wuhan has a higher population density than London.
Perhaps measures taken to control a virus are more important than population density.
And you actually believe the Chinese on numbers ? Too early to know for sure. Maybe orientals are less susceptible ? It's too early still."
I've seen BAME charts, the Orientals had the lowest ethnic death rate (1 times the chance of dying from COVID than Caucasians). |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ait88Man
over a year ago
Plymouth |
"Every country appear to be giving inaccurate death figures."
The Office For National Statistics has been publishing the number of deaths from all causes in England and Wales for each week since 1993. The numbers are derived from actual real death certificates which must be filed by law for every person who dies, regardless of whether they were in hospital, in a care home, at the family home, at work, outside, or anywhere else. What doctors choose to put on the certificates is irrelevant.
There are only three problems with the data:
1. The registration certificates are not necessarily filed on the day of death. So deaths may be counted in the wrong weeks.
2. The numbers are provisional. But I’ve not seen an adjustment greater than 500, and they are usually less than 10.
3. The numbers are not published until 11 days after the end of the week concerned.
These are probably the most reliable numbers available to us. The politicians will, of course, have access to them daily, as they are being compiled.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
