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uk slow to react ?
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, " What I cannot understand we had the best defence that no other country in Europe had and never used it to our full advantage we have the sea all round us completely seperated from mainland Europe and end up with the worst death rate in Europe and we have still not learned and are still letting everyone back in from countries who are behind us on the curve! That water has saved us in the past and should have been used to help us now but no just let everyone in and spread it! Did not take China long to learn try getting back in there what we should have been doing from the start  | |||
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, " Yes, UK did exactly like Germany, in fact we had the same result... | |||
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, What I cannot understand we had the best defence that no other country in Europe had and never used it to our full advantage we have the sea all round us completely seperated from mainland Europe and end up with the worst death rate in Europe and we have still not learned and are still letting everyone back in from countries who are behind us on the curve! That water has saved us in the past and should have been used to help us now but no just let everyone in and spread it! Did not take China long to learn try getting back in there what we should have been doing from the start "It's a sensible thread and must have taken quite a lot to research but the bashers will soon be up and running. I'd still be in Bulgaria (some people would say good) LOL on March the 8th if some people had their way along with another 1 million Brits. The only way to avoid a panic was not to press the panic button, but alas there are a lot of Father Dougals out there. | |||
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, What I cannot understand we had the best defence that no other country in Europe had and never used it to our full advantage we have the sea all round us completely seperated from mainland Europe and end up with the worst death rate in Europe and we have still not learned and are still letting everyone back in from countries who are behind us on the curve! That water has saved us in the past and should have been used to help us now but no just let everyone in and spread it! Did not take China long to learn try getting back in there what we should have been doing from the start
It's a sensible thread and must have taken quite a lot to research but the bashers will soon be up and running. I'd still be in Bulgaria (some people would say good) LOL on March the 8th if some people had their way along with another 1 million Brits. The only way to avoid a panic was not to press the panic button, but alas there are a lot of Father Dougals out there.
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They will also be the same people complaining when infections explode when people are mixing again. | |||
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"Our government was allowing flights in from Italy while they were losing hundreds of people a day other countries completely closed borders with Italy " We were 15 miles from the mont blance tunnel and could see the Motorway from the appartment we were staying in lots of traffic still moving both ways on the 16th March when we left | |||
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"It's not just a matter of 1 solitary measure though. Complex situations rarely are op. Each successive country to be faced with its first infection had the foreknowledge of what had been before. There was also increased medical knowledge, a greater length of time to plan, prepare, order supplies etc. The earliest locations were disadvantaged. Those later down the chain did not face those same disadvantages. The UK also had run epidemic readiness tests very recently, so we were perhaps less unfortunate than those who hadn't got that prior intelligence upon their abilities and deficits, to rectify them. " America is doing really well being able to access all the knowledge from other countries who went through it before they did. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?." It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?." They wanted that yes but then someone else piped up and Sait it would kill 500,000 so they changed their position on it. Unfortunately it was too late by then hence the numbers we're seeing now | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently " It was NOT the policy of every country it was based on if a virus enters a body then we think we'd become immune to it over time, unfortunately we do not and we still don't have any hard evidence that show anyone becomes immune too it. | |||
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"Our government are a fucking disgusting bunch of cunts, telling us all to get herd immunity, but it might kill 500,000 oh shit let's react. Telling us all to fuck off back to work even though we're still having 2000-3000 people die each week. Since lockdown our government has allowed 18 million to enter the UK all of them untested and allowed to roam amongst us doing their shopping etc. Now the dirty bastard's are talking about cutting the furlough scheme because it's costing us too much money yet at the same fucking time paying the fucking ministers £162 just turn on a fucking computer at home. Completely lying to us about ppe counting individual gloves as one rather than a pair just to massage the figures, not a thought for any of our care homes etc. The dirty cunts are saying we follow the science yet today the scientists at sage told the government to lockdown 2 -3 weeks earlier than they did and repeatedly told them to test test test. Now we have this track and trace, fuck right off with that already proven history shows they can not keep people's date safe. Each and everyone of those pricks need stringing up. I've had someone die because of their fucking disgusting evil hateful cunting lies. Not a single person in government has done right by the people who voted for them. If we're going back to normal then so should them pricks we will return to work when each and everyone of those return to parliament and sit side by side!!!? " The furlong scheme has to end ASAP, people are getting too comfy sitting at home watching Netflix, whilst the taxpayer pays most of their wages. | |||
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"That’s hilarious analysis , so if/when COVID-20 strikes if we will wait 53 days to act will we pat ourselves on the back. Not only were we one of the last , we also had no land borders yet still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else before us " Every country is saying how new Zealand or Australia approached it is fantastic because they have a natural border called water so do we na fuck that bring in millions our People dont matter | |||
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"That’s hilarious analysis , so if/when COVID-20 strikes if we will wait 53 days to act will we pat ourselves on the back. Not only were we one of the last , we also had no land borders yet still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else before us " Who was quicker than us ? | |||
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"Our government are a fucking disgusting bunch of cunts, telling us all to get herd immunity, but it might kill 500,000 oh shit let's react. Telling us all to fuck off back to work even though we're still having 2000-3000 people die each week. Since lockdown our government has allowed 18 million to enter the UK all of them untested and allowed to roam amongst us doing their shopping etc. Now the dirty bastard's are talking about cutting the furlough scheme because it's costing us too much money yet at the same fucking time paying the fucking ministers £162 just turn on a fucking computer at home. Completely lying to us about ppe counting individual gloves as one rather than a pair just to massage the figures, not a thought for any of our care homes etc. The dirty cunts are saying we follow the science yet today the scientists at sage told the government to lockdown 2 -3 weeks earlier than they did and repeatedly told them to test test test. Now we have this track and trace, fuck right off with that already proven history shows they can not keep people's date safe. Each and everyone of those pricks need stringing up. I've had someone die because of their fucking disgusting evil hateful cunting lies. Not a single person in government has done right by the people who voted for them. If we're going back to normal then so should them pricks we will return to work when each and everyone of those return to parliament and sit side by side!!!? The furlong scheme has to end ASAP, people are getting too comfy sitting at home watching Netflix, whilst the taxpayer pays most of their wages. " What ? So what if there is no work for us yet because of the lockdown. Should we be thrown on the scrap heap? | |||
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"Our government are a fucking disgusting bunch of cunts, telling us all to get herd immunity, but it might kill 500,000 oh shit let's react. Telling us all to fuck off back to work even though we're still having 2000-3000 people die each week. Since lockdown our government has allowed 18 million to enter the UK all of them untested and allowed to roam amongst us doing their shopping etc. Now the dirty bastard's are talking about cutting the furlough scheme because it's costing us too much money yet at the same fucking time paying the fucking ministers £162 just turn on a fucking computer at home. Completely lying to us about ppe counting individual gloves as one rather than a pair just to massage the figures, not a thought for any of our care homes etc. The dirty cunts are saying we follow the science yet today the scientists at sage told the government to lockdown 2 -3 weeks earlier than they did and repeatedly told them to test test test. Now we have this track and trace, fuck right off with that already proven history shows they can not keep people's date safe. Each and everyone of those pricks need stringing up. I've had someone die because of their fucking disgusting evil hateful cunting lies. Not a single person in government has done right by the people who voted for them. If we're going back to normal then so should them pricks we will return to work when each and everyone of those return to parliament and sit side by side!!!? The furlong scheme has to end ASAP, people are getting too comfy sitting at home watching Netflix, whilst the taxpayer pays most of their wages. " Have you found a cure then ?? Have we found treatments then ?? We've had one bastard payment We have 4 years worth of money hidden away to support our country The poor will always be poor and the rich will always be rich | |||
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"Our government are a fucking disgusting bunch of cunts, telling us all to get herd immunity, but it might kill 500,000 oh shit let's react. Telling us all to fuck off back to work even though we're still having 2000-3000 people die each week. Since lockdown our government has allowed 18 million to enter the UK all of them untested and allowed to roam amongst us doing their shopping etc. Now the dirty bastard's are talking about cutting the furlough scheme because it's costing us too much money yet at the same fucking time paying the fucking ministers £162 just turn on a fucking computer at home. Completely lying to us about ppe counting individual gloves as one rather than a pair just to massage the figures, not a thought for any of our care homes etc. The dirty cunts are saying we follow the science yet today the scientists at sage told the government to lockdown 2 -3 weeks earlier than they did and repeatedly told them to test test test. Now we have this track and trace, fuck right off with that already proven history shows they can not keep people's date safe. Each and everyone of those pricks need stringing up. I've had someone die because of their fucking disgusting evil hateful cunting lies. Not a single person in government has done right by the people who voted for them. If we're going back to normal then so should them pricks we will return to work when each and everyone of those return to parliament and sit side by side!!!? " Forum Rules In summary: If you treat other people with respect, you can't go far wrong. Don't forget that the forums are meant to be fun, if you find yourself fuming and writing long angry messages you're probably best taking a break from it. | |||
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"That’s hilarious analysis , so if/when COVID-20 strikes if we will wait 53 days to act will we pat ourselves on the back. Not only were we one of the last , we also had no land borders yet still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else before us Every country is saying how new Zealand or Australia approached it is fantastic because they have a natural border called water so do we na fuck that bring in millions our People dont matter " Have a look to see how many people enter NZ in a year, Heathrow has four times that many on its own | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently It was NOT the policy of every country it was based on if a virus enters a body then we think we'd become immune to it over time, unfortunately we do not and we still don't have any hard evidence that show anyone becomes immune too it. " yes we do. It's now been proven that people who have had it are not catching it a 2nd time. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently It was NOT the policy of every country it was based on if a virus enters a body then we think we'd become immune to it over time, unfortunately we do not and we still don't have any hard evidence that show anyone becomes immune too it. " Latest WHO research is that we DO. Previously they hadn't said no...just didnt have enough data. | |||
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"Our government are a fucking disgusting bunch of cunts, telling us all to get herd immunity, but it might kill 500,000 oh shit let's react. Telling us all to fuck off back to work even though we're still having 2000-3000 people die each week. Since lockdown our government has allowed 18 million to enter the UK all of them untested and allowed to roam amongst us doing their shopping etc. Now the dirty bastard's are talking about cutting the furlough scheme because it's costing us too much money yet at the same fucking time paying the fucking ministers £162 just turn on a fucking computer at home. Completely lying to us about ppe counting individual gloves as one rather than a pair just to massage the figures, not a thought for any of our care homes etc. The dirty cunts are saying we follow the science yet today the scientists at sage told the government to lockdown 2 -3 weeks earlier than they did and repeatedly told them to test test test. Now we have this track and trace, fuck right off with that already proven history shows they can not keep people's date safe. Each and everyone of those pricks need stringing up. I've had someone die because of their fucking disgusting evil hateful cunting lies. Not a single person in government has done right by the people who voted for them. If we're going back to normal then so should them pricks we will return to work when each and everyone of those return to parliament and sit side by side!!!? " Blimey. Someone’s been at the Keats. Such poetry.  | |||
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"I find it's the same people complaining that the government were slow to lockdown that also want lockdown lifted right now.
They will also be the same people complaining when infections explode when people are mixing again. "Spot on | |||
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"Our government are a fucking disgusting bunch of cunts, telling us all to get herd immunity, but it might kill 500,000 oh shit let's react. Telling us all to fuck off back to work even though we're still having 2000-3000 people die each week. Since lockdown our government has allowed 18 million to enter the UK all of them untested and allowed to roam amongst us doing their shopping etc. Now the dirty bastard's are talking about cutting the furlough scheme because it's costing us too much money yet at the same fucking time paying the fucking ministers £162 just turn on a fucking computer at home. Completely lying to us about ppe counting individual gloves as one rather than a pair just to massage the figures, not a thought for any of our care homes etc. The dirty cunts are saying we follow the science yet today the scientists at sage told the government to lockdown 2 -3 weeks earlier than they did and repeatedly told them to test test test. Now we have this track and trace, fuck right off with that already proven history shows they can not keep people's date safe. Each and everyone of those pricks need stringing up. I've had someone die because of their fucking disgusting evil hateful cunting lies. Not a single person in government has done right by the people who voted for them. If we're going back to normal then so should them pricks we will return to work when each and everyone of those return to parliament and sit side by side!!!? The furlong scheme has to end ASAP, people are getting too comfy sitting at home watching Netflix, whilst the taxpayer pays most of their wages. " Are they? The furloughed workers I know are bored, want to work and fed up teaching their kids. You do realise that furloughed workers are also tax payers usually. Many have worked for years and years contributing taxes. Once some normality returns, they'll be back (hopefully). They will also spend the money they've been given by the government and help the economy "bounce" back. | |||
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"That’s hilarious analysis , so if/when COVID-20 strikes if we will wait 53 days to act will we pat ourselves on the back. Not only were we one of the last , we also had no land borders yet still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else before us Who was quicker than us ?" the rate of infection in all those countries was a lot faster than the uk... the uk squandered the extra time they had to prepare for this thats why we are where we are! | |||
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" The furlong scheme has to end ASAP, people are getting too comfy sitting at home watching Netflix, whilst the taxpayer pays most of their wages. Are they? The furloughed workers I know are bored, want to work and fed up teaching their kids. You do realise that furloughed workers are also tax payers usually. Many have worked for years and years contributing taxes. Once some normality returns, they'll be back (hopefully). They will also spend the money they've been given by the government and help the economy "bounce" back." This. | |||
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"Our government are a fucking disgusting bunch of cunts, telling us all to get herd immunity, but it might kill 500,000 oh shit let's react. Telling us all to fuck off back to work even though we're still having 2000-3000 people die each week. Since lockdown our government has allowed 18 million to enter the UK all of them untested and allowed to roam amongst us doing their shopping etc. Now the dirty bastard's are talking about cutting the furlough scheme because it's costing us too much money yet at the same fucking time paying the fucking ministers £162 just turn on a fucking computer at home. Completely lying to us about ppe counting individual gloves as one rather than a pair just to massage the figures, not a thought for any of our care homes etc. The dirty cunts are saying we follow the science yet today the scientists at sage told the government to lockdown 2 -3 weeks earlier than they did and repeatedly told them to test test test. Now we have this track and trace, fuck right off with that already proven history shows they can not keep people's date safe. Each and everyone of those pricks need stringing up. I've had someone die because of their fucking disgusting evil hateful cunting lies. Not a single person in government has done right by the people who voted for them. If we're going back to normal then so should them pricks we will return to work when each and everyone of those return to parliament and sit side by side!!!? Forum Rules In summary: If you treat other people with respect, you can't go far wrong. Don't forget that the forums are meant to be fun, if you find yourself fuming and writing long angry messages you're probably best taking a break from it." Best post written here in my opinion. Everyone out there, may I suggest that we're all under stress and this thread shows it, my virtual hug to you and yours, we are where we are. And, that's a swinging site as you read this. Let's work on making tomorrow the better place we all want to be in rather than this kafkaesque nightmare today. Love to you all ?? Hope to flirt again with you all soonest - stay safe x     | |||
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"And also, the airports are still open. No checks. No advise. I'm no expert, but that's the first thing you do surely. And they wonder why we are still struggling. " Whilst other countries closed for immigration, over 18 million passengers have landed in the UK, with less than 1 thousand quarantined. Many arrived from Italy, Spain and the USA, where the virus existed. Genetic analysis of the virus shows that it arrived here from multiple sources, not all of it directly from China. Despite us being behind others, we didn't seem to plan and prepare well, nor manage things particularly effectively, compared to the others. | |||
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"And also, the airports are still open. No checks. No advise. I'm no expert, but that's the first thing you do surely. And they wonder why we are still struggling. Whilst other countries closed for immigration, over 18 million passengers have landed in the UK, with less than 1 thousand quarantined. Many arrived from Italy, Spain and the USA, where the virus existed. Genetic analysis of the virus shows that it arrived here from multiple sources, not all of it directly from China. Despite us being behind others, we didn't seem to plan and prepare well, nor manage things particularly effectively, compared to the others. " Since it was suggested less than a million Brits were stranded aboard, I'm guessing that at least 17 million just connected through the UK and on home somewhere else. | |||
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"And also, the airports are still open. No checks. No advise. I'm no expert, but that's the first thing you do surely. And they wonder why we are still struggling. Whilst other countries closed for immigration, over 18 million passengers have landed in the UK, with less than 1 thousand quarantined. Many arrived from Italy, Spain and the USA, where the virus existed. Genetic analysis of the virus shows that it arrived here from multiple sources, not all of it directly from China. Despite us being behind others, we didn't seem to plan and prepare well, nor manage things particularly effectively, compared to the others. " Most of those would have been brits returning home, they could isolate at home, the facts I posted show we weren't behind the other countries, all of Europe recorded first cases within a few days of each other, even after Italy recorded large numbers the French border was still open, Austria did shut theirs iirc and threw out Brits on holiday there with very short notice, we had friends given two hours to leave. | |||
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"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/opinion/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson.html This... This was his attitude to whole thing at the start. That attitude permeated the whole of government and cost lives. Boris used to be funny when it didn't matter. Nobody is laughing now." As life played out we could have gone in to this with only Borris or Corbyn in charge. The latter certainly wouldn’t have managed it vastly different but given what we saw of him and his pals it would have been with ever greater incompetence. | |||
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"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/opinion/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson.html This... This was his attitude to whole thing at the start. That attitude permeated the whole of government and cost lives. Boris used to be funny when it didn't matter. Nobody is laughing now. As life played out we could have gone in to this with only Borris or Corbyn in charge. The latter certainly wouldn’t have managed it vastly different but given what we saw of him and his pals it would have been with ever greater incompetence." I tend to think about reality rather than other dimensions. So because Corbyn might have done worse, Boris can just fuck about. Marvelous, bodes well | |||
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"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/opinion/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson.html This... This was his attitude to whole thing at the start. That attitude permeated the whole of government and cost lives. Boris used to be funny when it didn't matter. Nobody is laughing now." Very accurate and factual piece.. | |||
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, " It's an interesting perspective but you seem to have missed out the part where we saw what was happening in Italy but not only did we wait another 15 days we also let the Cheltenham Festival go ahead. It's bizarre to say we can only look at what is happening in each country separately when we are aware that the disease crosses borders. We knew there were cases in the country at that point and we could see what was happening in Italy but we sat on our hands. We could've put restrictions in there and then and most of the transmissions from person to person in the 15 days we did nothing wouldn't have occurred. Like I said, interesting perspective but flawed. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently " No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. | |||
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"Prof Ferguson, whose advice to the prime minister led to the UK lockdown, said he regretted "undermining" the messages on social distancing." The only reason that story was leaked and printed when it was is to distract from the headline that we now have the worst death tole in Europe. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world." No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated" So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. " Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks | |||
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"Prof Ferguson, whose advice to the prime minister led to the UK lockdown, said he regretted "undermining" the messages on social distancing. The only reason that story was leaked and printed when it was is to distract from the headline that we now have the worst death tole in Europe." Funnily enough not one right leaning paper mentions that we are as a country in that position but splashes Ferguson and partner all over the from pages.. And yes he was wrong and has to go.. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks" That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. | |||
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"Prof Ferguson, whose advice to the prime minister led to the UK lockdown, said he regretted "undermining" the messages on social distancing. The only reason that story was leaked and printed when it was is to distract from the headline that we now have the worst death tole in Europe. Funnily enough not one right leaning paper mentions that we are as a country in that position but splashes Ferguson and partner all over the from pages.. And yes he was wrong and has to go.. " Media are just propaganda peddlers | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated." What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible | |||
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"Our government are a fucking disgusting bunch of cunts, telling us all to get herd immunity, but it might kill 500,000 oh shit let's react. Telling us all to fuck off back to work even though we're still having 2000-3000 people die each week. Since lockdown our government has allowed 18 million to enter the UK all of them untested and allowed to roam amongst us doing their shopping etc. Now the dirty bastard's are talking about cutting the furlough scheme because it's costing us too much money yet at the same fucking time paying the fucking ministers £162 just turn on a fucking computer at home. Completely lying to us about ppe counting individual gloves as one rather than a pair just to massage the figures, not a thought for any of our care homes etc. The dirty cunts are saying we follow the science yet today the scientists at sage told the government to lockdown 2 -3 weeks earlier than they did and repeatedly told them to test test test. Now we have this track and trace, fuck right off with that already proven history shows they can not keep people's date safe. Each and everyone of those pricks need stringing up. I've had someone die because of their fucking disgusting evil hateful cunting lies. Not a single person in government has done right by the people who voted for them. If we're going back to normal then so should them pricks we will return to work when each and everyone of those return to parliament and sit side by side!!!? The furlong scheme has to end ASAP, people are getting too comfy sitting at home watching Netflix, whilst the taxpayer pays most of their wages. Are they? The furloughed workers I know are bored, want to work and fed up teaching their kids. You do realise that furloughed workers are also tax payers usually. Many have worked for years and years contributing taxes. Once some normality returns, they'll be back (hopefully). They will also spend the money they've been given by the government and help the economy "bounce" back." Completely agree I’m a tax payer...have always been..m furloughed...I desp want to go back to work...I desp want to see my kids get routine..cert not sitting getting lazy and watching Netflix but clearly know at the moment this is the safest way to keep my family safe | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible " Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative." Of course it can't be eradicated ! | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated !" You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. | |||
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"Never in human history has a virus been eradicated though social distancing alone. " Technically it is possible though. | |||
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, What I cannot understand we had the best defence that no other country in Europe had and never used it to our full advantage we have the sea all round us completely seperated from mainland Europe and end up with the worst death rate in Europe and we have still not learned and are still letting everyone back in from countries who are behind us on the curve! That water has saved us in the past and should have been used to help us now but no just let everyone in and spread it! Did not take China long to learn try getting back in there what we should have been doing from the start "Because “take back control of our borders” was always just a dog whistle fop to the racists. It was never about taking back control of our borders. As we already had control. -Matt | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated ! You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. " You’re creating an island where anyone who leaves cannot come back and nobody or nothing can come in...ever. Yes you’ll have your eradication of that particular virus but you’re describing a Utopia from 1000 years ago. As soon as any outside disease arrives your whole community will be vulnerable. This is how Empires were destroyed once world travel commenced. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated ! You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. " I never realised I was at risk from Douglas Hurd. Everyday is a school day. | |||
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"I didn't quite understand why they didn't close all borders compleatly and then quarantine every one returning back to the UK and keep the virus out of the country we deffiently would have taken a bit financially with this strategy but in the long term I'm sure we would be far better off. " Would have made no difference, until all the early pneumonia samples have been tested for covid-19 we don't know how early we had it before china announced it, France's first case is dec 27th so far. | |||
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"I didn't quite understand why they didn't close all borders compleatly and then quarantine every one returning back to the UK and keep the virus out of the country we deffiently would have taken a bit financially with this strategy but in the long term I'm sure we would be far better off. " It was rife before anyone knew what it was, it's even looking possible that the bug going round at xmas was the original virus, it wasnt killing then so I had assumed it wasnt covid when people started saying "oh I had it at xmas" but maybe they did and it has mutated into a more dangerous one.It has been confirmed that a case in France tested on the18th dec was it | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated ! You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. " HERD immunity is not eradication its reducing due to immunity, still waiting for you to name one expert who had claimed we can eradicate it. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated ! You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. HERD immunity is not eradication its reducing due to immunity, still waiting for you to name one expert who had claimed we can eradicate it." We eradicated other viruses in the past. It isn't impossible. | |||
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, " The lockdowns here have been more relaxed than in other countries , especially Italy and Spain . We have also struggled with testing and acquiring enough PPE for our front line staff. We also have a PM who initially stated we should ‘take it on the chin’ then boasted in a press conference that he had shaken hands with people who had the virus and then caught it himself . The UK government have been very impressive with the financial side of the crisis but have been inept with dealing with the human cost of the virus . | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated ! You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. HERD immunity is not eradication its reducing due to immunity, still waiting for you to name one expert who had claimed we can eradicate it." Here we go again, are you still bleating on about that theory? Do you still think we need an 80% infection rate by the winter? Of course this disease can be eradicated, just like bird flu, SARS, Ebola etc were stopped in the past. | |||
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"I didn't quite understand why they didn't close all borders compleatly and then quarantine every one returning back to the UK and keep the virus out of the country we deffiently would have taken a bit financially with this strategy but in the long term I'm sure we would be far better off. " Hindsight is brilliant!  No UK gov of any political persuasion would have reacted any differently to this crisis! Whilst deaths per day was still below 10 the general public wouldn’t have accepted draconian restrictions being introduced... we needed to be seeing many 10’s of deaths per day before the public started to take it seriously... by then deaths in the hundreds per day where invertible because those 100’s were already infected. Those who think it’s acceptable to call for cabinet ministers to be strung up are either disgraceful human beings or in need of help | |||
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"I didn't quite understand why they didn't close all borders compleatly and then quarantine every one returning back to the UK and keep the virus out of the country we deffiently would have taken a bit financially with this strategy but in the long term I'm sure we would be far better off. Hindsight is brilliant! No UK gov of any political persuasion would have reacted any differently to this crisis! Whilst deaths per day was still below 10 the general public wouldn’t have accepted draconian restrictions being introduced... we needed to be seeing many 10’s of deaths per day before the public started to take it seriously... by then deaths in the hundreds per day where invertible because those 100’s were already infected. Those who think it’s acceptable to call for cabinet ministers to be strung up are either disgraceful human beings or in need of help"Or possibly are just asking reasonable questions? If you can answer why Cheltenham went ahead and people were told not to go to the pub but we kept them open for about 3 days?? | |||
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"I didn't quite understand why they didn't close all borders compleatly and then quarantine every one returning back to the UK and keep the virus out of the country we deffiently would have taken a bit financially with this strategy but in the long term I'm sure we would be far better off. Hindsight is brilliant! No UK gov of any political persuasion would have reacted any differently to this crisis! Whilst deaths per day was still below 10 the general public wouldn’t have accepted draconian restrictions being introduced... we needed to be seeing many 10’s of deaths per day before the public started to take it seriously... by then deaths in the hundreds per day where invertible because those 100’s were already infected. Those who think it’s acceptable to call for cabinet ministers to be strung up are either disgraceful human beings or in need of help"No cabinet ministers should be ‘strung up’ but the government needs to be held accountable if preventable mistakes were made. Why do we have to wait for 100s or 1000s of deaths before we enter lockdown, I don’t agree with that logic. iIf testing had been more rigorous it would surely have shown the extent of the problem earlier | |||
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"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/opinion/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson.html This... This was his attitude to whole thing at the start. That attitude permeated the whole of government and cost lives. Boris used to be funny when it didn't matter. Nobody is laughing now. As life played out we could have gone in to this with only Borris or Corbyn in charge. The latter certainly wouldn’t have managed it vastly different but given what we saw of him and his pals it would have been with ever greater incompetence." Is it any wonder fingers get pointed when nonsense like this gets spouted? | |||
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"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/opinion/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson.html This... This was his attitude to whole thing at the start. That attitude permeated the whole of government and cost lives. Boris used to be funny when it didn't matter. Nobody is laughing now." Was that the time he made the joke about the ventilators? | |||
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"The libertarian neo-cons running this country have a great deal to answer for. Rather than doffing their caps to Trump, they ought to have understood that 'big government' was required. Sadly, that concept has been rubbished to the point of irrelevance in the UK. In S. Korea, by way of contrast, people understood and respected government intervention. There IS such a thing as society after all!" | |||
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"People are ignoring the lockdown even now. Do you seriously think with zero deaths everyone would have been compliant? Would everyone have accepted full border closures and 2 weeks being locked up when they arrived home.? Dont think so." Why should the stupidity and selfishness of the minority dictate and harm the majority? Why should the death of 1000s make people follow the rules? We could all see what was happening in Italy, | |||
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"https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-britain-elderly/ " Just heard about this. These people were let down terribly. | |||
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"The way I look at it is that it was an unknown virus, spreading quickly and everyone is learning as they go along unfortunately. No two countries, citizens or governments are the same so there will always be differences. I do think there needs to be a review and obviously there will be. I’m sure some mistakes have been made along the way. I think people have expectations that cannot possibly be matched though. The Government are damned if the do and damned if they don’t say/do things. It would be worthwhile noting things that have gone well not just the things that haven’t. That is how we will learn "I think it depends how transparent the review will be. | |||
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"The UK government have been very impressive with the financial side of the crisis but have been inept with dealing with the human cost of the virus . " It’s what they are comfortable with, the people bit is largely an irrelevance to a Conservative politician. They have Cummings in there to show them how to influence and exploit people but actually caring about people they don’t know really doesn’t factor in to it for them. I don’t think all Conservative politicians are narcissists or sociopaths but I think a considerably higher percentage than you’d find in the population are. | |||
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"What about all the idiots ignoring the lock down since day one? Wouldn't have mattered how early they'd have started. Wait till this bank holiday weekend we'll see how concerned some people will be about lock down " More people have been ignoring it or bending it every week. I'm out and about most days. Actually had to deal with traffic on Monday. First time since all of this and it wasnt work based as it was 2pm | |||
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, " This is missing the point. "Reacting" is not limited to licking down the country. That is all your list indicates though. The WHO guidelines were in place from 2009. The fact that France, Spain and Italy chose to ignore them doesn't make our actions any better. The fact that the countries that did follow the guidelines have had lower infection and mortality rates tells the story. We have objectively performed less well than almost every other developed country. So, rather than making excuses for it, why not accept it, learn from it and improve what we are doing? That is actually what is being done with government with the exception of admitting the initial failure. Viruses don't care about politics though. | |||
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"I think, the bottom line here is, nobody expected them to get everything right, of course not. But, we do expect them to be honest. It's come to light now that we were not following the science. The science's influence was limited by our capability. We were not prepared for this despite the recommendations of Cygness. It's pretty clear that austerity had a massive impact on our ability to fight this virus. That, and very weak leadership, lead to the result we have. " There is one thing that life has taught me. I never expect a politician to be honest... Not a flippant comment.. so so true. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated ! You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. HERD immunity is not eradication its reducing due to immunity, still waiting for you to name one expert who had claimed we can eradicate it. Here we go again, are you still bleating on about that theory? Do you still think we need an 80% infection rate by the winter? Of course this disease can be eradicated, just like bird flu, SARS, Ebola etc were stopped in the past. " Find one expert that thinks that it can be eradicated. Those other viruses were very different to this one in that symptoms appeared quickly, there wasnt a long incubation period and they killed far more, so were easier to stop, the who keep a constant eye out as they have never claimed they have been eradicated, but no recent cases, they expect they will resurface at some point. Yes herd immunity is the only way to reduce the impact, you keep bleating on that it isn't but have never come up with an alternative plan. There are two choices, herd immunity or vaccine, the former will come first especially as it seems to be accepted that the virus has mutated several times which MAY mean a vaccine isnt very effective like the flu one isnt sometimes or like other Corona viruses like the common cold one is never found that works. Hopefully that scenario doesn't happen | |||
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"heres a timeline for you https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-national-scandal-a-timeline-of-the-uk-governments-woeful-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis/ " That article was written by two hard-left writers for The Morning Star, the newspaper of the Communist Party of Great Britain. Not what you'd call an unbiased and balanced report. | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. " Yeah but it's not just about when we locked down. Locking down earlier would've helped, probably a lot but like us the Germans didn't lock down as quickly as they could have. However the Germans have a massive diagnostics and testing infrastructure so they could afford to make a mistake because they started to test and isolate people. By 29th April Germany had tested over 2.5 million people, the UK had tested about 750k. The fact that the Germans were able to test and isolate those who were positive so quickly meant they have suffered far fewer deaths than we have. Our government seemed to think we could take the same risk as Germany in full knowledge we couldn't test in the numbers Germany could. | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. " They were much better prepared. | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared." Oh well.. what next.. ? | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared." That's what Churchill said, wasn't the case tho | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. That's what Churchill said, wasn't the case tho "You have lost me? | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ?" You disagree? | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree?" I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. Yeah but it's not just about when we locked down. Locking down earlier would've helped, probably a lot but like us the Germans didn't lock down as quickly as they could have. However the Germans have a massive diagnostics and testing infrastructure so they could afford to make a mistake because they started to test and isolate people. By 29th April Germany had tested over 2.5 million people, the UK had tested about 750k. The fact that the Germans were able to test and isolate those who were positive so quickly meant they have suffered far fewer deaths than we have. Our government seemed to think we could take the same risk as Germany in full knowledge we couldn't test in the numbers Germany could." So what happens when they open up ? Unless everyone stays in their own home it will spread again those who are vulnerable will die if they catch it, our hospitals have not been overwhelmed no one has died that could have been saved by better treatment, there is no magic bullet that saves a 70 year old who has health issues, until a vaccine arrives they are at risk in every country in the world.In the meantime economies are imploding meaning the resources needed to pay for health care are not going to be available. It's a hugely difficult balancing act and all I see is people who dont understand that the virus cant be stopped spouting drivel. (That's not aimed at you) | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes " You want to learn from our mistakes but not from the success of others? Is that only because they are German or are you not interested in anyone elses approach if it works? | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. Yeah but it's not just about when we locked down. Locking down earlier would've helped, probably a lot but like us the Germans didn't lock down as quickly as they could have. However the Germans have a massive diagnostics and testing infrastructure so they could afford to make a mistake because they started to test and isolate people. By 29th April Germany had tested over 2.5 million people, the UK had tested about 750k. The fact that the Germans were able to test and isolate those who were positive so quickly meant they have suffered far fewer deaths than we have. Our government seemed to think we could take the same risk as Germany in full knowledge we couldn't test in the numbers Germany could. So what happens when they open up ? Unless everyone stays in their own home it will spread again those who are vulnerable will die if they catch it, our hospitals have not been overwhelmed no one has died that could have been saved by better treatment, there is no magic bullet that saves a 70 year old who has health issues, until a vaccine arrives they are at risk in every country in the world.In the meantime economies are imploding meaning the resources needed to pay for health care are not going to be available. It's a hugely difficult balancing act and all I see is people who dont understand that the virus cant be stopped spouting drivel. (That's not aimed at you)" Do you understand why the Germans undertook such a massive testing and isolation policy? The point is that they isolated those who were carrying the virus so it didn’t spread, that way their hospitals weren’t overwhelmed either, and they reduced the number of people carrying the virus. Now they are able to relax restrictions with a far smaller chance of 70 year olds with underlying conditions coming into contact with a carrier, meaning they are less likely to die from it. I’m truly shocked at how easily the government has managed to convince people that not only are tens of thousands of deaths inevitable but that somehow it’s a price worth paying. | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. Yeah but it's not just about when we locked down. Locking down earlier would've helped, probably a lot but like us the Germans didn't lock down as quickly as they could have. However the Germans have a massive diagnostics and testing infrastructure so they could afford to make a mistake because they started to test and isolate people. By 29th April Germany had tested over 2.5 million people, the UK had tested about 750k. The fact that the Germans were able to test and isolate those who were positive so quickly meant they have suffered far fewer deaths than we have. Our government seemed to think we could take the same risk as Germany in full knowledge we couldn't test in the numbers Germany could. So what happens when they open up ? Unless everyone stays in their own home it will spread again those who are vulnerable will die if they catch it, our hospitals have not been overwhelmed no one has died that could have been saved by better treatment, there is no magic bullet that saves a 70 year old who has health issues, until a vaccine arrives they are at risk in every country in the world.In the meantime economies are imploding meaning the resources needed to pay for health care are not going to be available. It's a hugely difficult balancing act and all I see is people who dont understand that the virus cant be stopped spouting drivel. (That's not aimed at you) Do you understand why the Germans undertook such a massive testing and isolation policy? The point is that they isolated those who were carrying the virus so it didn’t spread, that way their hospitals weren’t overwhelmed either, and they reduced the number of people carrying the virus. Now they are able to relax restrictions with a far smaller chance of 70 year olds with underlying conditions coming into contact with a carrier, meaning they are less likely to die from it. I’m truly shocked at how easily the government has managed to convince people that not only are tens of thousands of deaths inevitable but that somehow it’s a price worth paying." Not as shocked as I am that people dont, cant or wont grasp the fact that once restrictions are lifted it will spread again and numbers carrying it and being infectious will rise thus being a danger to those that are vulnerable, until at least 75% and preferably more have had it the vulnerable are going to remain at risk, do you suggest they stay in for 18 months till hopefully a vaccine is here or do we let them out for a few days between peaks or do the rest of us catch it and make it safe for them to come out of hiding. The risk to those who are healthy and under 70 is tiny. There is a tipping point where it will become safer for the vulnerable to venture out, the quicker we get there the better it wont make any difference to total deaths they will happen quicker as is happening in Sweden, provided of course the nhs can cope with those who do become ill who have undiagnosed health issues. Do far it has, the scientists will be keeping a very close eye on infection rates to see if another shorter lockdown is required. That is what every country is doing except Sweden who have decided to bite the bullet and get it over with | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated ! You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. " You cannot have HERD immunity for a virus that mutates. There are already over 20 different mutations that have been discovered. To become immune, you would need to have caught and recovered from ALL OF THEM. A vaccine is already looking highly unlikely as a result of the number of mutations already identified. | |||
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"Not as shocked as I am that people dont, cant or wont grasp the fact that once restrictions are lifted it will spread again and numbers carrying it and being infectious will rise thus being a danger to those that are vulnerable, until at least 75% and preferably more have had it the vulnerable are going to remain at risk, do you suggest they stay in for 18 months till hopefully a vaccine is here or do we let them out for a few days between peaks or do the rest of us catch it and make it safe for them to come out of hiding. The risk to those who are healthy and under 70 is tiny. There is a tipping point where it will become safer for the vulnerable to venture out, the quicker we get there the better it wont make any difference to total deaths they will happen quicker as is happening in Sweden, provided of course the nhs can cope with those who do become ill who have undiagnosed health issues. Do far it has, the scientists will be keeping a very close eye on infection rates to see if another shorter lockdown is required. That is what every country is doing except Sweden who have decided to bite the bullet and get it over with" There will be no herd immunity until there is a vaccine, there is no evidence to show that people who get the virus won’t get it again. Our government fucked up massively, they risked people’s lives needlessly and they have convinced people they couldn’t have done it any differently. Anyone who isn’t an idiot can see they could’ve done better, we account for 0.87% of the world’s population yet we have recorded 11.35% of the world’s deaths from Covid19. Would it take a family member to die before these people lose their rose tinted spectacles or will loyalty to PM, queen and country mean they would rather that than criticise the government? The thread is about whether our government was too late to lock down, the answer is yes, criminally so, no amount of weasel words about not being as bad as another government that also condemned people to death because of their negligence will change that. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. They wanted that yes but then someone else piped up and Sait it would kill 500,000 so they changed their position on it. Unfortunately it was too late by then hence the numbers we're seeing now" That doesn't make sense. If herd immunity would have cost 500,000 and currently we have about 30,000 then I'd say what they've done is working quite well. | |||
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"That’s hilarious analysis , so if/when COVID-20 strikes if we will wait 53 days to act will we pat ourselves on the back. Not only were we one of the last , we also had no land borders yet still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else before us " On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes " To learn from them Tom, people have to acknowledge them. There lie the problem! | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. " UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. | |||
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"What OP said is true, but they are also comparing against the worst affected counties in the world, and they ALL waited far too long. Ireland in comparison had its first case on 29th Feb, and closed down schools on 12th March. 12 days! We looked on in horror as Ireland was already locked down with Paddys day cancelled and UK still let Cheltenham go on. " Good point. Portugal and Eastern Europe also better for now. We've done as well as the worst countries
Don't worry, the developing world will catch up soon and we can feel pleased with ourselves. | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently No it’s not. You can eradicate it with a strict lockdown. There are examples of that throughout the world. No one has eradicated it, no one CAN eradicate it, yes a few like NZ have currently zero cases but the moment they allow others into the country they will be at risk. ALL of europe has the virus it cannot and will not be eradicated until we have an effective vaccine, that may never happen because just like flu and colds it is mutating, there are already between 7 and 18 variations depending on the source of info, while a vaccine SHOULD lessen the severity of a new infection just like the flu one does it doesn't mean that it can be eradicated. Name me ONE expert that says it can. Not controlled but eradicated So if I live on an island with a 1000 people, 3 people get infected, we lock the island down hard and no one can’t travel for 6 weeks, those 3 people are strictly isolated and thankfully don’t transmit the virus to anyone and they recover, is the virus not eradicated on my island? I think you will find it is. A virus needs a host! If it can’t have a host it then dies. So yes it can be eradicated. Try it in a country with 65 million and get everyone of those 65 million to stay away from everyone else for 6 weeks That wasn’t my question. My question was has it been eradicated. I didn’t ask for a politicians answer. I asked for an answer to my question. Which the the answer was Yes. So it can be eradicated. What can be done on a tiny island is not possible on one with 65 million. Total lockdown is impossible Wasn’t my question though was it. You said it couldn’t be eradicated. I was pointing out that actually it can. Don’t be blinded by your own light, it limits your ability to think beyond your own narrative. Of course it can't be eradicated ! You are confusing what is possible with what is practically feasible. The limit to eradication is setting. How do you think Hurd immunity works? Hurd immunity is essentially eradication by means of removing suitable hosts for the virus. You cannot have HERD immunity for a virus that mutates. There are already over 20 different mutations that have been discovered. To become immune, you would need to have caught and recovered from ALL OF THEM. A vaccine is already looking highly unlikely as a result of the number of mutations already identified. " Well done you for trying to educate these people. Unfortunately they have their fingers in their ears and are jumping up and down shouting " I'm not listening, I'm no listening", as loud as they can. | |||
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" You cannot have HERD immunity for a virus that mutates. There are already over 20 different mutations that have been discovered. To become immune, you would need to have caught and recovered from ALL OF THEM. A vaccine is already looking highly unlikely as a result of the number of mutations already identified. " Where's the research papers ? | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. " Are Germany's population of elderly, vulnerable and Bame individuals the same as us per 100,000 | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. Are Germany's population of elderly, vulnerable and Bame individuals the same as us per 100,000" Approximately 21.5% of Germany’s population are over 65 compared to 17.5% in the UK. The BAME population percentage is approximately 13% in the UK and %10.5 in Germany. Do you think that would account for the UK having five times more cases per 100k population? | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes You want to learn from our mistakes but not from the success of others? Is that only because they are German or are you not interested in anyone elses approach if it works?" Clown | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes You want to learn from our mistakes but not from the success of others? Is that only because they are German or are you not interested in anyone elses approach if it works? Clown" It’s a fair question. | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. Are Germany's population of elderly, vulnerable and Bame individuals the same as us per 100,000 Approximately 21.5% of Germany’s population are over 65 compared to 17.5% in the UK. The BAME population percentage is approximately 13% in the UK and %10.5 in Germany. Do you think that would account for the UK having five times more cases per 100k population?" Nope. I asked you a question because I am interested in the answer. | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people " I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK." Any thoughts on those stats at all though? | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though?" We are two weeks behind Italy and we are averaging 300 more deaths a day than them. We’ll have 4500 more deaths than them by the time we are where they are currently. | |||
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"It is not a competion and Italy does not include care homes in figures" Our government says Italy does. | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? We are two weeks behind Italy and we are averaging 300 more deaths a day than them. We’ll have 4500 more deaths than them by the time we are where they are currently. " Fucking hell | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though?" My main thoughts though are the incredible mental gymnastics you are performing in order to support the government. | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? We are two weeks behind Italy and we are averaging 300 more deaths a day than them. We’ll have 4500 more deaths than them by the time we are where they are currently. Fucking hell" The “yeah but...” crowd will do their mental gymnastics to decide it means the government is doing a great job though. | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes You want to learn from our mistakes but not from the success of others? Is that only because they are German or are you not interested in anyone elses approach if it works? Clown" Excellent, completely empty, "answer"
Let's not look at what works somewhere else.
If you actually want to say something more constructive, which you might be on the verge of doing why don't you? | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? We are two weeks behind Italy and we are averaging 300 more deaths a day than them. We’ll have 4500 more deaths than them by the time we are where they are currently. " No idea how you would know that but ok The only way to work it out is the amount of deaths per million of the countries population. Even then it seems the way the deaths are being recorded varies wildly I think in the end they will have to use the average death rate compared with 2020 death rates and see what the increase is | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? My main thoughts though are the incredible mental gymnastics you are performing in order to support the government." Support a Tory government? Never Understand statistics, yes | |||
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"In the early days of this crisis did The UK have a Herd Immunity policy ?. It is the policy of every country,there is no choice. there is no cure or vacinne currently " Its not the policy of every country | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes You want to learn from our mistakes but not from the success of others? Is that only because they are German or are you not interested in anyone elses approach if it works? Clown Excellent, completely empty, "answer"
Let's not look at what works somewhere else.
If you actually want to say something more constructive, which you might be on the verge of doing why don't you? "I think people get tired of your insinuations to be honest mate | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? We are two weeks behind Italy and we are averaging 300 more deaths a day than them. We’ll have 4500 more deaths than them by the time we are where they are currently. No idea how you would know that but ok The only way to work it out is the amount of deaths per million of the countries population. Even then it seems the way the deaths are being recorded varies wildly I think in the end they will have to use the average death rate compared with 2020 death rates and see what the increase is" All the stats are out there, you just need to look, easier if you take your head out the sand though. | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? My main thoughts though are the incredible mental gymnastics you are performing in order to support the government. Support a Tory government? Never Understand statistics, yes" You really don’t understand statistics. | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? We are two weeks behind Italy and we are averaging 300 more deaths a day than them. We’ll have 4500 more deaths than them by the time we are where they are currently. No idea how you would know that but ok The only way to work it out is the amount of deaths per million of the countries population. Even then it seems the way the deaths are being recorded varies wildly I think in the end they will have to use the average death rate compared with 2020 death rates and see what the increase is All the stats are out there, you just need to look, easier if you take your head out the sand though." Still not heard your thoughts on Italy's population compared with ours | |||
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"On a slightly more positive note it does highlight how well the NHS has coped with as many say more problems to deal with than Italy whose health system was overwhelmed. Hope you all appreciate their amazing work in impossible circumstances" | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes You want to learn from our mistakes but not from the success of others? Is that only because they are German or are you not interested in anyone elses approach if it works? Clown Excellent, completely empty, "answer"
Let's not look at what works somewhere else.
If you actually want to say something more constructive, which you might be on the verge of doing why don't you?
I think people get tired of your insinuations to be honest mate"What "insinuations"? What are you adding here? Do you also think that there is no benefit in looking at what the Germans or anyone else in a country with a low infection and death rate is doing? Is there any logic on that? If not what's your point? | |||
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"On a slightly more positive note it does highlight how well the NHS has coped with as many say more problems to deal with than Italy whose health system was overwhelmed. Hope you all appreciate their amazing work in impossible circumstances" Do you not read the answers to questions you asked a couple of days ago or do you just forget after you’ve read them? Not judging just asking. | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes You want to learn from our mistakes but not from the success of others? Is that only because they are German or are you not interested in anyone elses approach if it works? Clown Excellent, completely empty, "answer"
Let's not look at what works somewhere else.
If you actually want to say something more constructive, which you might be on the verge of doing why don't you?
I think people get tired of your insinuations to be honest mate
What "insinuations"?
What are you adding here?
Do you also think that there is no benefit in looking at what the Germans or anyone else in a country with a low infection and death rate is doing?
Is there any logic on that?
If not what's your point?"You know what your insinuation was as did Essex Tom You don't need to play the xenophobia card to make your point, it degrades you | |||
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"On a slightly more positive note it does highlight how well the NHS has coped with as many say more problems to deal with than Italy whose health system was overwhelmed. Hope you all appreciate their amazing work in impossible circumstances Do you not read the answers to questions you asked a couple of days ago or do you just forget after you’ve read them? Not judging just asking." I do yes I was trying to inject something positive - sorry I should have known better One of the answers quite detailed on why Italy suffered so badly included the quote about they had bad luck None of it explained why a most excellent health service faired worse than the NHS given how we have so many more cases Again I apologise and leave you all to lambast me | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? We are two weeks behind Italy and we are averaging 300 more deaths a day than them. We’ll have 4500 more deaths than them by the time we are where they are currently. No idea how you would know that but ok The only way to work it out is the amount of deaths per million of the countries population. Even then it seems the way the deaths are being recorded varies wildly I think in the end they will have to use the average death rate compared with 2020 death rates and see what the increase is" You are correct. The most sensible statistic to use is excess deaths. You're fighting a battle about not having the crappiest outcome in Europe or the developed world. That's not really a win is it? | |||
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"On a slightly more positive note it does highlight how well the NHS has coped with as many say more problems to deal with than Italy whose health system was overwhelmed. Hope you all appreciate their amazing work in impossible circumstances Do you not read the answers to questions you asked a couple of days ago or do you just forget after you’ve read them? Not judging just asking. I do yes I was trying to inject something positive - sorry I should have known better One of the answers quite detailed on why Italy suffered so badly included the quote about they had bad luck None of it explained why a most excellent health service faired worse than the NHS given how we have so many more cases Again I apologise and leave you all to lambast me" Was it not more concentrated in certain areas in italy? I think everyone appreciates the amazing job the nhs and careers has done and let's hope it sees a sea change in how it is treated politically. | |||
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"the uk government have been accused by many on Fabs and elsewhere for being to slow to react so I thought I would look up some facts to see how we compared to other countries and how quickly we implemented control measures. France frst case was 24 Jan apart from dont shake hands ( largely ingored as we were there at the time) there was no restrictions until lockdown on the 16 March. 51 Days Italy first case jan 31st quarentine in some regions started 8th March, most commercial businesses shut 11th March,full lockdown 21st. 37 to 50 days depending on how you measure lockdown Germany first case 27th Jan lockdown 22 March 54 Days UK first case 29 jan lockdown 23rd March 54 days So almost all countries have introduced the same measures in the same timescale. The French in particular took no measures whatsoever apart from telling people not to shake hands, the day before they shut the ski resorts they were saying they would stay open,the day after lockdown there was no controls on numbers in the supermarkets etc, What I cannot understand we had the best defence that no other country in Europe had and never used it to our full advantage we have the sea all round us completely seperated from mainland Europe and end up with the worst death rate in Europe and we have still not learned and are still letting everyone back in from countries who are behind us on the curve! That water has saved us in the past and should have been used to help us now but no just let everyone in and spread it! Did not take China long to learn try getting back in there what we should have been doing from the start "It is not rocket science we have biggest no of obesity in Europe, our population are unhealthy, diets are shocking, smoking and drink issues, high no of health issues we have highest rate of type 2 diabetes particularly in Birmingham and London areas where there are high levels of deprivation. So why is everyone so shocked about the figures also we are a small island with far too many peiple/sqkm compared with other countries around the globe so its all to do with those prevailing issues, so it's no wonder our health service is struggling people need to take some responsibility and stop blaming others we are such a blame culture that is getting worse. | |||
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"On a slightly more positive note it does highlight how well the NHS has coped with as many say more problems to deal with than Italy whose health system was overwhelmed. Hope you all appreciate their amazing work in impossible circumstances Do you not read the answers to questions you asked a couple of days ago or do you just forget after you’ve read them? Not judging just asking. I do yes I was trying to inject something positive - sorry I should have known better One of the answers quite detailed on why Italy suffered so badly included the quote about they had bad luck None of it explained why a most excellent health service faired worse than the NHS given how we have so many more cases Again I apologise and leave you all to lambast me Was it not more concentrated in certain areas in italy? I think everyone appreciates the amazing job the nhs and careers has done and let's hope it sees a sea change in how it is treated politically." You are nice after all | |||
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"On a slightly more positive note it does highlight how well the NHS has coped with as many say more problems to deal with than Italy whose health system was overwhelmed. Hope you all appreciate their amazing work in impossible circumstances Do you not read the answers to questions you asked a couple of days ago or do you just forget after you’ve read them? Not judging just asking. I do yes I was trying to inject something positive - sorry I should have known better One of the answers quite detailed on why Italy suffered so badly included the quote about they had bad luck None of it explained why a most excellent health service faired worse than the NHS given how we have so many more cases Again I apologise and leave you all to lambast me" Italy, and Spain, are physically more expressive. They hug and kiss more. Generations also mix far more. It will be more complicated than that, but probably almost that simple. The NHS has done amazingly well considering the poor circumstances that they have had to work under and the poor starting point in staffing and resourcing. I don't think that it's appropriate to say that NHS staff have worked harder or are more committed than the Italians which is how what you wrote could be read. | |||
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"Makes me piss. People praise the Germans for how well they've done and slag is off, but we were 1 day behind them on locking down. They were much better prepared. Oh well.. what next.. ? You disagree? I don't really care a flying monkeys what the Gerries did. I only care where we go next. Look forward and learn from mistakes You want to learn from our mistakes but not from the success of others? Is that only because they are German or are you not interested in anyone elses approach if it works? Clown Excellent, completely empty, "answer"
Let's not look at what works somewhere else.
If you actually want to say something more constructive, which you might be on the verge of doing why don't you?
I think people get tired of your insinuations to be honest mate
What "insinuations"?
What are you adding here?
Do you also think that there is no benefit in looking at what the Germans or anyone else in a country with a low infection and death rate is doing?
Is there any logic on that?
If not what's your point?
You know what your insinuation was as did Essex Tom
You don't need to play the xenophobia card to make your point, it degrades you"Good additional information. Should we ignore what other countries that are dealing with this successfully or not? If you choose to assume that I am am accusing someone of being xenophobic rather than foolish then perhaps you should consider how you view the world. | |||
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"On a slightly more positive note it does highlight how well the NHS has coped with as many say more problems to deal with than Italy whose health system was overwhelmed. Hope you all appreciate their amazing work in impossible circumstances Do you not read the answers to questions you asked a couple of days ago or do you just forget after you’ve read them? Not judging just asking. I do yes I was trying to inject something positive - sorry I should have known better One of the answers quite detailed on why Italy suffered so badly included the quote about they had bad luck None of it explained why a most excellent health service faired worse than the NHS given how we have so many more cases Again I apologise and leave you all to lambast me Italy, and Spain, are physically more expressive. They hug and kiss more. Generations also mix far more. It will be more complicated than that, but probably almost that simple. The NHS has done amazingly well considering the poor circumstances that they have had to work under and the poor starting point in staffing and resourcing. I don't think that it's appropriate to say that NHS staff have worked harder or are more committed than the Italians which is how what you wrote could be read." I did not say NHS have worked harder than the Italians I would never put down such courageous people Italy and its people are beautiful I have never said anything of the sort I'm just gratefully that with more cases and yes with hotspots like London the NHS did not get overwhelmed. When weeks ago I saw the scenes in the Italian hospitals I cried. Then cried again when I realised that was comming our way Have always wanted more money for the NHS and am happy to pay more tax to make that happen | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. " Yes, Germany is doing significantly better than most of Europe but we are not doing significantly worse than the European average. Germany is the significant exception not the European norm. | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? My main thoughts though are the incredible mental gymnastics you are performing in order to support the government." My main thoughts are the incredible statistical and mental gymnastics many seem to be going through to make the numbers say what they clearly don't. The numbers say very clearly that, while we're not doing as well as the best in the world in dealing with this crisis, we're not doing any where near as bad as the worst but are doing about the same as the average. | |||
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"I do yes I was trying to inject something positive - sorry I should have known better One of the answers quite detailed on why Italy suffered so badly included the quote about they had bad luck None of it explained why a most excellent health service faired worse than the NHS given how we have so many more cases Again I apologise and leave you all to lambast me" Firstly, we don't have more cases than Italy we have more deaths, secondly London has considerably more ICU bed capacity than the rest of the country, it has in fact over 30% more per capita than anywhere else. Third, Italy locked down in order to prevent the spread of the virus, and it locked down hard, not the restrictions we have. Fourth, Italy has more multi-generational homes than we do, meaning that old people could not be isolated from the younger people in their family as easily as we did it because they don't have anywhere to go. Our NHS has done well because it didn't suffer the same massive hit in areas that were not as well stocked with ICU beds as London is, we have lost over a hundred staff members because of a criminal lack of PPE caused by a government who has spent weeks lying abut how much we have and changing classifications on need not because of science but because of availability. Where the Italians had bad luck, we have had a small amount of good fortune, sadly we weren't lucky enough to have a government who gave a shit about our people. | |||
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"Has nobody noticed that we only have about 300 more deaths than Italy but 6 million more people I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the families of the 30,000+ dead in the UK. Any thoughts on those stats at all though? My main thoughts though are the incredible mental gymnastics you are performing in order to support the government. My main thoughts are the incredible statistical and mental gymnastics many seem to be going through to make the numbers say what they clearly don't. The numbers say very clearly that, while we're not doing as well as the best in the world in dealing with this crisis, we're not doing any where near as bad as the worst but are doing about the same as the average. " Really, what is the average? | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. Yes, Germany is doing significantly better than most of Europe but we are not doing significantly worse than the European average. Germany is the significant exception not the European norm. " “..... but we are not doing significantly worse than the European average.” Not sure why you should even be making this type of comparison. We should be learning from the mistakes we’ve made, and find out how and what we could do better, in case something similar happens in the future. We should be learning from other countries that handled it better, the likes of Germany, South Korea, Taiwan etc. But instead, we console ourselves by comparing ourselves to others who have handled it poorly. As they say “ misery loves company” | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. Yes, Germany is doing significantly better than most of Europe but we are not doing significantly worse than the European average. Germany is the significant exception not the European norm. " Germany isn’t a significant exception, it’s actually 20th out of 31 European countries when it comes to Covid deaths per 100k population. The UK is 28th. | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. Yes, Germany is doing significantly better than most of Europe but we are not doing significantly worse than the European average. Germany is the significant exception not the European norm. “..... but we are not doing significantly worse than the European average.” Not sure why you should even be making this type of comparison. We should be learning from the mistakes we’ve made, and find out how and what we could do better, in case something similar happens in the future. We should be learning from other countries that handled it better, the likes of Germany, South Korea, Taiwan etc. But instead, we console ourselves by comparing ourselves to others who have handled it poorly. As they say “ misery loves company”" Have to agree.. It's a particularly bizarre whataboutery rather than accept there have been fuck ups and the government were asleep at the helm.. | |||
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"On what do you base your statement that we 'still fucked it up on a bigger scale than anyone else'. I see no real evidence that our figures are significantly worse than else where in Europe and no evidence to support any claim that the number of additional deaths in the UK will be significantly higher than else where in Europe. UK Covid 19 deaths deaths per 100,000 people are more than 5 times that of Germany. I'd call that significant. Yes, Germany is doing significantly better than most of Europe but we are not doing significantly worse than the European average. Germany is the significant exception not the European norm. “..... but we are not doing significantly worse than the European average.” Not sure why you should even be making this type of comparison. We should be learning from the mistakes we’ve made, and find out how and what we could do better, in case something similar happens in the future. We should be learning from other countries that handled it better, the likes of Germany, South Korea, Taiwan etc. But instead, we console ourselves by comparing ourselves to others who have handled it poorly. As they say “ misery loves company”" In not sure we are good at learning from other countries tbh. We seem to have an inherent belief that we know best. | |||
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