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Should we have a Procurement Minister
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Ok party politics aside here, we are doing abysmally in the ppe area.
Has Hancock got too much to cover on his roll with delays from Turkey and then we have British firms who have set up to make ppe ...but they are sending it to ireland as our government dont seem to want it.
So should we step outside the box in the name of unity on this and get say Gordon Brown or Tony Blair to take this roll on?
Your thoughts...
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Didn’t they assign someone specifically to oversee PPE early on? "
If they have and it's not Hancock...I think it's time they stood down as they are not doing a very good job to say the least. |
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"Didn’t they assign someone specifically to oversee PPE early on? "
Hancock gave the remit for testing to his donor from his pm bid, one lord Bethel who's expertise is in lobbying..
One area being American companies looking for involvement in the NHS..
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It should have been given to someone with expertise in procurement weeks ago, take the politics out of the issue..
"
Yep it needs to be a cross party venture on this one  |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
Are we doing that bad? I thought we had plentiful stocks apart from gowns and even then nobody has actually run out although stocks are very low.
I have hospital and care home staff as friends and their stories are very different to what I see on the TV.
I get that we are doing the whole ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ with our stocks, which is clearly not ideal, but as long as they aren’t without them that is adequate. It could be better.
I do think the media are playing a very poor scaremongering role in this pandemic. It’s not helpful.
It could have been better I’m sure but then couldn’t everything? |
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"It should have been given to someone with expertise in procurement weeks ago, take the politics out of the issue..
Yep it needs to be a cross party venture on this one "
It’s on home manufacture of PPE - https://sunriseread.com/uk-hires-former-olympic-chief-to-boost-hospital-protective-kit-provision/89674/ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are we doing that bad? I thought we had plentiful stocks apart from gowns and even then nobody has actually run out although stocks are very low.
I have hospital and care home staff as friends and their stories are very different to what I see on the TV.
I get that we are doing the whole ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ with our stocks, which is clearly not ideal, but as long as they aren’t without them that is adequate. It could be better.
I do think the media are playing a very poor scaremongering role in this pandemic. It’s not helpful.
It could have been better I’m sure but then couldn’t everything? "
It probably depend on where your friends work. I'm sure that there is no lack of PPE at Guy's and St Thomas' |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Are we doing that bad? I thought we had plentiful stocks apart from gowns and even then nobody has actually run out although stocks are very low.
I have hospital and care home staff as friends and their stories are very different to what I see on the TV.
I get that we are doing the whole ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ with our stocks, which is clearly not ideal, but as long as they aren’t without them that is adequate. It could be better.
I do think the media are playing a very poor scaremongering role in this pandemic. It’s not helpful.
It could have been better I’m sure but then couldn’t everything? "
I dont think so babs as we are always playing catch up...delivery of just in time is ok in normal times when the stocks are fine, but this isn't normal times.
We need somebody with openess to explain the reason for delays like the Turkish shipment that should have been here on sunday...it was loaded and ready to go but has just arrived this morning.
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"Are we doing that bad? I thought we had plentiful stocks apart from gowns and even then nobody has actually run out although stocks are very low.
I have hospital and care home staff as friends and their stories are very different to what I see on the TV.
I get that we are doing the whole ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ with our stocks, which is clearly not ideal, but as long as they aren’t without them that is adequate. It could be better.
I do think the media are playing a very poor scaremongering role in this pandemic. It’s not helpful.
It could have been better I’m sure but then couldn’t everything?
I dont think so babs as we are always playing catch up...delivery of just in time is ok in normal times when the stocks are fine, but this isn't normal times.
We need somebody with openess to explain the reason for delays like the Turkish shipment that should have been here on sunday...it was loaded and ready to go but has just arrived this morning.
"
I read somewhere we didnt send the e mail till the Monday re that Turkish shipment. |
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"Does the public being updated on a minute by minute basis on a single shipment of ppe get the stuff here any faster?
If there is a delay, for whatever reason, what you going to do about it ?"
No one said anything about a minute by minute update |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Are we doing that bad? I thought we had plentiful stocks apart from gowns and even then nobody has actually run out although stocks are very low.
I have hospital and care home staff as friends and their stories are very different to what I see on the TV.
I get that we are doing the whole ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ with our stocks, which is clearly not ideal, but as long as they aren’t without them that is adequate. It could be better.
I do think the media are playing a very poor scaremongering role in this pandemic. It’s not helpful.
It could have been better I’m sure but then couldn’t everything?
I dont think so babs as we are always playing catch up...delivery of just in time is ok in normal times when the stocks are fine, but this isn't normal times.
We need somebody with openess to explain the reason for delays like the Turkish shipment that should have been here on sunday...it was loaded and ready to go but has just arrived this morning.
I read somewhere we didnt send the e mail till the Monday re that Turkish shipment."
That would sound about right...hence why we need cross party involvement on this |
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"Does the public being updated on a minute by minute basis on a single shipment of ppe get the stuff here any faster?
If there is a delay, for whatever reason, what you going to do about it ?"
How very dare you Sir..
I reserve the right to harrumph on lots of issues..
Harrumphing is good at such times..
And I have no sewing skills.. |
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"Does the public being updated on a minute by minute basis on a single shipment of ppe get the stuff here any faster?
If there is a delay, for whatever reason, what you going to do about it ?
How very dare you Sir..
I reserve the right to harrumph on lots of issues..
Harrumphing is good at such times..
And I have no sewing skills.. "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We have procurement folk with NHS.
Well in Scotland we do, part of NSS. National Services Scotland
https://nhsnss.org/services/procurement/"
Yup it seems Scotland are doing a lot better then England.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It should have been given to someone with expertise in procurement weeks ago, take the politics out of the issue..
"
I think they should all shut up fighting and work together. Fuck politics. All politicians etc in a team effort. Assign roles that matches their expertise.
They are wasting too much time bitching. Pitch in and help out. |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"Does the public being updated on a minute by minute basis on a single shipment of ppe get the stuff here any faster?
If there is a delay, for whatever reason, what you going to do about it ?"
There’s a thing called forward planning. |
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By *dd269Man
over a year ago
Clee |
That Turkish shipment of PPE only got here 'cos the RAF flew to Turkey and brought it back!
But I don't think we need a plane with 2 or 3 small containers - we need a shipload of large containers, enough for the whole of UK. |
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"It should have been given to someone with expertise in procurement weeks ago, take the politics out of the issue..
I think they should all shut up fighting and work together. Fuck politics. All politicians etc in a team effort. Assign roles that matches their expertise.
They are wasting too much time bitching. Pitch in and help out. "
I said similar on here in relation to brexit, a coalition in the national interest to go forward after the referendum..
Got told by some to shut up you lost..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are we doing that bad? I thought we had plentiful stocks apart from gowns and even then nobody has actually run out although stocks are very low.
I have hospital and care home staff as friends and their stories are very different to what I see on the TV.
I get that we are doing the whole ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ with our stocks, which is clearly not ideal, but as long as they aren’t without them that is adequate. It could be better.
I do think the media are playing a very poor scaremongering role in this pandemic. It’s not helpful.
It could have been better I’m sure but then couldn’t everything? "
I agree.
The media are pissing me right off. I know their job is shit stirring but 
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It should have been given to someone with expertise in procurement weeks ago, take the politics out of the issue..
I think they should all shut up fighting and work together. Fuck politics. All politicians etc in a team effort. Assign roles that matches their expertise.
They are wasting too much time bitching. Pitch in and help out.
I said similar on here in relation to brexit, a coalition in the national interest to go forward after the referendum..
Got told by some to shut up you lost..
"
They are probably the types bitching and moaning but doing nothing to help... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That Turkish shipment of PPE only got here 'cos the RAF flew to Turkey and brought it back!
But I don't think we need a plane with 2 or 3 small containers - we need a shipload of large containers, enough for the whole of UK."
The thing is manufacturers have set up in this country...but due to lack of response they are now selling it to ireland. You just couldn't write it. .. |
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"It should have been given to someone with expertise in procurement weeks ago, take the politics out of the issue..
I think they should all shut up fighting and work together. Fuck politics. All politicians etc in a team effort. Assign roles that matches their expertise.
They are wasting too much time bitching. Pitch in and help out.
I said similar on here in relation to brexit, a coalition in the national interest to go forward after the referendum..
Got told by some to shut up you lost..
They are probably the types bitching and moaning but doing nothing to help..."
I think at the time it all went very tribal, hands up after being told several times what do you know you lost etc I stopped suggesting it and also went tribal..
Still feel it was a massive mistake to not do it, whilst I don't think it was the best decision it was the majority etc so let's get on..
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"That Turkish shipment of PPE only got here 'cos the RAF flew to Turkey and brought it back!
But I don't think we need a plane with 2 or 3 small containers - we need a shipload of large containers, enough for the whole of UK."
The Turkish shipment was delayed because the supplier at the time, didn't have enough stock to fulfill the order.
Another delay was getting the export license signed, a mandatory requirement now. Thankfully the Turks pushed it through quickly for us. |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
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I know companies have approached the government with offers of making PPE but some of them are companies which have been thrown together the day before. You can’t risk that. The government have to be sure about the quality. The quality has to be right. Also, can they fulfill the orders in the quantities we need? In many cases probably not. We could use existing manufacturers - clothing companies like Asos - but can we source the correct fabric?
I think that perhaps someone with a team to co-ordinate this is a good idea, and yes it probably could have been done before but it’s easier to get things from established companies when you’re in the midst of it.
If these companies wanted to manufacture them they could anyway but they won’t because they don’t have a contract.
It’s not straightforward. |
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Couple of things.
It was said a couple of weeks back that the UK government was sorcing PPE abroad on behalf of all 4 nations because they have the embassies and staff in those countries.
All PPE from overseas is having to be checked for quality and they are actually getting what they ordered and the amount that was ordered.
PPE is needed globally so it can't be an easy task and I'm sure there will be quite a few people trying to pull a fast one and make a few quid out of all this! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Couple of things.
It was said a couple of weeks back that the UK government was sorcing PPE abroad on behalf of all 4 nations because they have the embassies and staff in those countries.
All PPE from overseas is having to be checked for quality and they are actually getting what they ordered and the amount that was ordered.
PPE is needed globally so it can't be an easy task and I'm sure there will be quite a few people trying to pull a fast one and make a few quid out of all this!"
Of course there will, which is why we need to buy any that is available in this country first...rather then wait for a plane load from china only to find out it is useless eh. |
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"Couple of things.
It was said a couple of weeks back that the UK government was sorcing PPE abroad on behalf of all 4 nations because they have the embassies and staff in those countries.
All PPE from overseas is having to be checked for quality and they are actually getting what they ordered and the amount that was ordered.
PPE is needed globally so it can't be an easy task and I'm sure there will be quite a few people trying to pull a fast one and make a few quid out of all this!
Of course there will, which is why we need to buy any that is available in this country first...rather then wait for a plane load from china only to find out it is useless eh."
Of course but the PPE in the UK also need to meet the standards required in the health care.
No point buying stock then it failing the required checks. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Couple of things.
It was said a couple of weeks back that the UK government was sorcing PPE abroad on behalf of all 4 nations because they have the embassies and staff in those countries.
All PPE from overseas is having to be checked for quality and they are actually getting what they ordered and the amount that was ordered.
PPE is needed globally so it can't be an easy task and I'm sure there will be quite a few people trying to pull a fast one and make a few quid out of all this!
Of course there will, which is why we need to buy any that is available in this country first...rather then wait for a plane load from china only to find out it is useless eh.
Of course but the PPE in the UK also need to meet the standards required in the health care.
No point buying stock then it failing the required checks. "
Of course it does...but remember that massive shipload that Europe bought from china that was shite? Here the Manufacturer is just down the road.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We could employ Diane Abbot.....we'd probably end up with flip flops sellotaped to our heads lol
Another sensible contribution"
I shouldn't bite as they cant help themselves mate. |
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We have very limited stocks of the essential PPE supplies and we use a large stock every day, in standard times.
Without blaming, it would probably be wise to have a broader, accountable force in place. We know from history that power is rarely relinquished easily, but we're in extraordinary times.
My gut feeling is that the government will only broaden power, perhaps with cross-party mini-government teams, if they feel they are vulnerable and can shift blame off of themselves.
There's no shame in appointment of others in high profile to take responsibility for high risk and need areas, such as PPE, including logistics, even if someone already holds some of that responsibility.
If we're to continue with daily briefings, it would be helpful to have some of the key responsibilities holders to appear and to provide precise details. We've tended towards having limited details given on a rolling basis, alongside lots of fluff and vague assurances.
If I was leader of an opposition party, I would be demanding fuller involvement across all parties and nation states, with considerably more transparency and clearer details. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We have very limited stocks of the essential PPE supplies and we use a large stock every day, in standard times.
Without blaming, it would probably be wise to have a broader, accountable force in place. We know from history that power is rarely relinquished easily, but we're in extraordinary times.
My gut feeling is that the government will only broaden power, perhaps with cross-party mini-government teams, if they feel they are vulnerable and can shift blame off of themselves.
There's no shame in appointment of others in high profile to take responsibility for high risk and need areas, such as PPE, including logistics, even if someone already holds some of that responsibility.
If we're to continue with daily briefings, it would be helpful to have some of the key responsibilities holders to appear and to provide precise details. We've tended towards having limited details given on a rolling basis, alongside lots of fluff and vague assurances.
If I was leader of an opposition party, I would be demanding fuller involvement across all parties and nation states, with considerably more transparency and clearer details. "
But have you notice the press questions?
They dont seem to be asking the right questions to me. |
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The government has a procurement body, they didn't just start buying ppe last month
Unfortunately every country in the world wants to buy it and the countries that make it keep what they need for themselves
Deep down it's the lack of manufacturing of anything im the UK, yes there's a few small companies that could knock up masks and gowns but not of the order of a million gowns or 5 million masks a week.
Of course the EU did offer ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are we doing that bad? I thought we had plentiful stocks apart from gowns and even then nobody has actually run out although stocks are very low.
I have hospital and care home staff as friends and their stories are very different to what I see on the TV.
I get that we are doing the whole ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ with our stocks, which is clearly not ideal, but as long as they aren’t without them that is adequate. It could be better.
I do think the media are playing a very poor scaremongering role in this pandemic. It’s not helpful.
It could have been better I’m sure but then couldn’t everything? "
What a nice kind comment. Hugs. x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The government has a procurement body, they didn't just start buying ppe last month
Unfortunately every country in the world wants to buy it and the countries that make it keep what they need for themselves
Deep down it's the lack of manufacturing of anything im the UK, yes there's a few small companies that could knock up masks and gowns but not of the order of a million gowns or 5 million masks a week.
Of course the EU did offer ..."
I think we shouldn't overlook them small companies as we need whatever is available, hence why I feel we need a high profile politician to take total control on this as the present procurement team isn't engaging with these firms at all.
The EU offer...  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
at last an outsider has been brought it taken to long.Also why are companies making this equipment and exporting to German
y as our government does not want to know?If the quality is good enough for Germany be better than any Chineese stuff.
This government has no used private industrial leaders as they should have.
If in the war we had done this we would have lost,Churchill put top people in charge of procurement etc not stupid civil servants and polititions.
Botris is a bit to much a socialist in this crisis |
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"at last an outsider has been brought it taken to long.Also why are companies making this equipment and exporting to German
y as our government does not want to know?If the quality is good enough for Germany be better than any Chineese stuff.
This government has no used private industrial leaders as they should have.
If in the war we had done this we would have lost,Churchill put top people in charge of procurement etc not stupid civil servants and polititions.
Botris is a bit to much a socialist in this crisis"
Boris who ?
The one that ram away after the brexit referendum
The one that went on holiday when covid 19 kicked off
Boris who |
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"at last an outsider has been brought it taken to long.Also why are companies making this equipment and exporting to German
y as our government does not want to know?If the quality is good enough for Germany be better than any Chineese stuff.
This government has no used private industrial leaders as they should have.
If in the war we had done this we would have lost,Churchill put top people in charge of procurement etc not stupid civil servants and polititions.
Botris is a bit to much a socialist in this crisis"
Spits tea out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok party politics aside here, we are doing abysmally in the ppe area.
Has Hancock got too much to cover on his roll with delays from Turkey and then we have British firms who have set up to make ppe ...but they are sending it to ireland as our government dont seem to want it.
So should we step outside the box in the name of unity on this and get say Gordon Brown or Tony Blair to take this roll on?
Your thoughts...
"
Hard to keep politics out of this. I don't know who is leading the procurement but there will be a whole team of people on it. There will be several problems but the main ones I know are the global issue over supply, the bureaucracy over placing orders that goes with big organisations which is even worse in government and health trusts, getting the right equipment that meets required standards.
Its all fine some guy saying he can provide 100 of something when the reality is the time and hastle it takes to get them due to the above it just isn't worth it. They need a supply chain all ready set up or that can deliver in big bulk.
To put it into context. The EU scheme that people keep going on about; after just over a month they have prices in and have selected who they will be purchasing from. No equipment has been delivered to anyone signed up to it and it will still be a couple of weeks at least before it starts filtering through. In other words, it takes a long time. That is why the shortage is global. |
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