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The ongoing debacle of ppe..
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Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical.. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical.. "
By now the only solution is the UK manufacturing their own. Whilst PPE shortages in the UK are acute and pressing, supply shortages are global. There are 2 main reasons for this, the almighty dollar and china manufacturers looking to sell to the highest bidder that will pay in full in advance. Normal business terms have been suspended. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Same old story BRING IT BACK TO BRITAIN. Stop sending all our work abroad. Pandemic has brought us to our knees. Imagine what a war would do.
#wakeupgoverment.
"
It's companies who have outsourced labour so they can pay less. Most of this is driven by the fact they want more profit and, we don't want to pay more for stuff. I might be wrong, but must be part of it?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A point I've made on a few threads. Germany coped better as they are a manufacturing based economy....you cant just rely on a service based economy when there is sod all to service!! |
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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago
ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL |
"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical.. "
Yes I saw this on two separate news banners on good morning Britain today. Sheer bloody lunacy, not to mention a complete waste of money. |
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By *etLikeMan
over a year ago
most fundamental aspects |
"Same old story BRING IT BACK TO BRITAIN. Stop sending all our work abroad. Pandemic has brought us to our knees. Imagine what a war would do.
#wakeupgoverment.
"
A war did just that. With merchant ships being torpedoed, our reliance on outside supply became apparent.
The same story was the case for WW1 when we ran out of wood (and nearly oil) and as a result the Forestry Commission was born |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical.. "
At long last, a sensible post 
100% agree with what you are saying.
It is not just PPE, it is everything, we export 10 tons of Potatoes, we import 10 tens of Potatoes.
It needs to stop and we need to revive our manufacturing base and become more self sufficient. |
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
At long last, a sensible post
100% agree with what you are saying.
It is not just PPE, it is everything, we export 10 tons of Potatoes, we import 10 tens of Potatoes.
It needs to stop and we need to revive our manufacturing base and become more self sufficient. "
Agreed, cancel hs2 which Boris was like warm on it seemed and divert part of the funding to help companies expand/start ups etc..? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Same old story BRING IT BACK TO BRITAIN. Stop sending all our work abroad. Pandemic has brought us to our knees. Imagine what a war would do.
#wakeupgoverment.
It's companies who have outsourced labour so they can pay less. Most of this is driven by the fact they want more profit and, we don't want to pay more for stuff. I might be wrong, but must be part of it??"
Surely it's the fact that we as consumers want to pay less for things so naturally the supply chain have to source things cheaper or someone else will. |
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical.. "
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
|
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
"
Saw it on the telegraph website, one company in the Midlands offered the government to make ppe last week or before then and were told no thanks..
Theyre shipping it to the EU, masks and gowns etc ..
R4 also covered it this morning.. |
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
Saw it on the telegraph website, one company in the Midlands offered the government to make ppe last week or before then and were told no thanks..
Theyre shipping it to the EU, masks and gowns etc ..
R4 also covered it this morning.. "
I read the headline there as well, its their exclusive, but no way I'm going the other side of the paywall 
Maybe another sensational exclusive to encourage some revenue?
I know there are companies out there, but shipping to EU because they haven't had a reply from NHS supply chain?? |
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I understand there is a worldwide shortage and it is difficult to source
But 'if' it's true that we are manufacturing and sending PPE out of the uk then it is scandalous
If I managed one of these companies I would just roll up outside a hospital with a wagon full. They would get paid (even thru a fundraising page) the kudos from the publicity would be huge
Why aren't these companies coming out and speaking publicity? |
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
Saw it on the telegraph website, one company in the Midlands offered the government to make ppe last week or before then and were told no thanks..
Theyre shipping it to the EU, masks and gowns etc ..
R4 also covered it this morning..
I read the headline there as well, its their exclusive, but no way I'm going the other side of the paywall
Maybe another sensational exclusive to encourage some revenue?
I know there are companies out there, but shipping to EU because they haven't had a reply from NHS supply chain??"
Nor I..
The figures are also on the sun's Web page, talking several shipment s and numbers of millions of masks..
Nick Robinson has a copy of the reply to the company from the government..
Not suggesting that this company could meet the demands of the NHS and care sectors but when we're sending the RAF to Turkey to pick stuff up there's a supply issue which can be part met or met here at home..
There's been similar stories of other companies also being ignored.. |
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I've seen loads of companies online furiously trying to find out who to contact to sell their supplies to the NHS and getting zero response from anyone. It's really quite baffling and frustrating to see. |
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
Saw it on the telegraph website, one company in the Midlands offered the government to make ppe last week or before then and were told no thanks..
Theyre shipping it to the EU, masks and gowns etc ..
R4 also covered it this morning..
I read the headline there as well, its their exclusive, but no way I'm going the other side of the paywall
Maybe another sensational exclusive to encourage some revenue?
I know there are companies out there, but shipping to EU because they haven't had a reply from NHS supply chain??
Nor I..
The figures are also on the sun's Web page, talking several shipment s and numbers of millions of masks..
Nick Robinson has a copy of the reply to the company from the government..
Not suggesting that this company could meet the demands of the NHS and care sectors but when we're sending the RAF to Turkey to pick stuff up there's a supply issue which can be part met or met here at home..
There's been similar stories of other companies also being ignored.. "
The Daily Fail have something on their website.
The part that interests me:
Michelle van Vuuren, who runs a London-based property company, turned her business into a PPE distributor working with Chinese suppliers last month as the virus began to spread around the world.
After failed attempts to contact NHS procurement services, Miss van Vuuren contacted Health Secretary Matt Hancock’s office on March 20."
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
"
Again the telegraph reported on 31 Mar that UK companies making ventilators were offering to supply but government said no.. |
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
Again the telegraph reported on 31 Mar that UK companies making ventilators were offering to supply but government said no.. "
Yes, which is another thread altogether
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
Again the telegraph reported on 31 Mar that UK companies making ventilators were offering to supply but government said no..
Yes, which is another thread altogether
"
Perhaps but both lead back to the same questions for the same people.. |
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical..
Do we have any more information on who these companies are and what ppe they have?
Again the telegraph reported on 31 Mar that UK companies making ventilators were offering to supply but government said no..
Yes, which is another thread altogether
Perhaps but both lead back to the same questions for the same people.. "
yes, and have almost the same answers |
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"I've seen loads of companies online furiously trying to find out who to contact to sell their supplies to the NHS and getting zero response from anyone. It's really quite baffling and frustrating to see."
Yes, I don't believe there's any actual shortage of PPE in the world. It's probably more to do with whether you're an approved government supplier and have jumped through all their hoops. The flip side is that the NHS would say they need quality control and can't buy defective kit. |
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By *hav02Man
over a year ago
Glasgow/London |
While there may be people in UK able to manufacture PPE out of their garages, it needs to comply with regulations and testing. That takes times.
.
Would you want to be responsible for providing your local ITU with PPE only to later find that your product was defective, and QC checks fudgingly fast tracked, and all the staff contracted the virus? |
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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago
ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL |
"I understand there is a worldwide shortage and it is difficult to source
But 'if' it's true that we are manufacturing and sending PPE out of the uk then it is scandalous
If I managed one of these companies I would just roll up outside a hospital with a wagon full. They would get paid (even thru a fundraising page) the kudos from the publicity would be huge
Why aren't these companies coming out and speaking publicity? "
Because they don't want to be seen as selling outside the UK for massive profits. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've seen loads of companies online furiously trying to find out who to contact to sell their supplies to the NHS and getting zero response from anyone. It's really quite baffling and frustrating to see."
Probably not greased the right palms 
Another reason we should be making our own goods in this country and not outsourcing everything.
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"Can you name a few of the UK companies who are manufacturing and exporting millions of items of PPE ?"
Just read a piece about stuff getting sent to the Cayman islands but doesnt name the company.
Maybe they are not allowed too? |
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"I've seen loads of companies online furiously trying to find out who to contact to sell their supplies to the NHS and getting zero response from anyone. It's really quite baffling and frustrating to see.
Probably not greased the right palms
Another reason we should be making our own goods in this country and not outsourcing everything.
"
People in the UK in general aren't prepared to pay more (maybe this situation will change people's mindset) but there's a very good reason why people buy all sorts of cheap crap off amazon.
Purely price driven with no thought as to whether I buy 4 sets of headphones at £4 each or one quality set at £15 that out lasts the 4 cheap ones.
Pre corona if you said to the NHS procurement teams I can sell you Chinese manufactured face masks for £1 each (approved and stamped) or UK made ones (same approval and stamp) at £1.50 or even £1.05 they'd go Chinese.
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I have just skimmed this thread and seen that people are angry that the NHS are not buying products which are from newly developed companies.
Healthcare companies have to bring a product to market, that has been clinically tested and proven to work. Just because some woman has turned her company into a new healthcare company doesn’t mean the products offer true protection.
Also they need to be added to a category to the NHSSC, it’s not easy to bring a new product to market or make it available to the NHS purchases. Procurement have a process to follow and buy from the NHSSC Catalogue. Just because Eric along the road has made some PPE or Ventilators doesn’t mean it will work, nor be able to provide the training to staff to ensure they know how to use it |
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"Can you name a few of the UK companies who are manufacturing and exporting millions of items of PPE ?
Just read a piece about stuff getting sent to the Cayman islands but doesnt name the company.
Maybe they are not allowed too?"
Not sure but Isn't it a British overseas territory as well ? |
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There never gonna be ready in time for this crisis and as soon as it over there won’t be an market for expensive uk based ppe we just can’t afford with our wages to produce love value simple goods as we will be undercut unless your gonna tariff others goods |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I've seen loads of companies online furiously trying to find out who to contact to sell their supplies to the NHS and getting zero response from anyone. It's really quite baffling and frustrating to see."
Yes.
Some companies are now going straight to the NHS trusts and supplying them that way as their offers of help were ignored/ missed |
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"I have just skimmed this thread and seen that people are angry that the NHS are not buying products which are from newly developed companies.
Healthcare companies have to bring a product to market, that has been clinically tested and proven to work. Just because some woman has turned her company into a new healthcare company doesn’t mean the products offer true protection.
Also they need to be added to a category to the NHSSC, it’s not easy to bring a new product to market or make it available to the NHS purchases. Procurement have a process to follow and buy from the NHSSC Catalogue. Just because Eric along the road has made some PPE or Ventilators doesn’t mean it will work, nor be able to provide the training to staff to ensure they know how to use it "
Agree with this, a lot of the companies complaining they can't get through to the NHS are opportunists who bought PPE (never sold it before) and now want to make a quick buck.
I've seen PPE that hasn't got the correct approval and people making false claims of what a mask will do because they don't know.
I hope they get burnt and are stuck with 50000 dodgy masks when this is over.
The government should be getting a team of experienced buyers together to speak to the factories direct and do the deals it shouldn't be going through three middle men all with there fingers in the pie.
We're paying for the raf and armed forces so there's your flights and distribution sorted.
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"Same old story BRING IT BACK TO BRITAIN. Stop sending all our work abroad. Pandemic has brought us to our knees. Imagine what a war would do.
#wakeupgoverment.
It's companies who have outsourced labour so they can pay less. Most of this is driven by the fact they want more profit and, we don't want to pay more for stuff. I might be wrong, but must be part of it??"
Hit the nail on the head right there if you take the industry out of China they are up a creek without a paddle. The are few companies that are looking to move manufacturing to places like Vietnam, Indonesia, India etc after this blows over. |
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"I have just skimmed this thread and seen that people are angry that the NHS are not buying products which are from newly developed companies.
Healthcare companies have to bring a product to market, that has been clinically tested and proven to work. Just because some woman has turned her company into a new healthcare company doesn’t mean the products offer true protection.
Also they need to be added to a category to the NHSSC, it’s not easy to bring a new product to market or make it available to the NHS purchases. Procurement have a process to follow and buy from the NHSSC Catalogue. Just because Eric along the road has made some PPE or Ventilators doesn’t mean it will work, nor be able to provide the training to staff to ensure they know how to use it "
 this touches on one of the main challenges the NHS SC are having with the massive increased demand for PPE:
the purchasers only have a predetermined list of a,b,c which they can only buy from x,y,z
Operating outside of this is not a skill or function which they have ever been required to have . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've seen loads of companies online furiously trying to find out who to contact to sell their supplies to the NHS and getting zero response from anyone. It's really quite baffling and frustrating to see.
Probably not greased the right palms
Another reason we should be making our own goods in this country and not outsourcing everything.
People in the UK in general aren't prepared to pay more (maybe this situation will change people's mindset) but there's a very good reason why people buy all sorts of cheap crap off amazon.
Purely price driven with no thought as to whether I buy 4 sets of headphones at £4 each or one quality set at £15 that out lasts the 4 cheap ones.
Pre corona if you said to the NHS procurement teams I can sell you Chinese manufactured face masks for £1 each (approved and stamped) or UK made ones (same approval and stamp) at £1.50 or even £1.05 they'd go Chinese.
"
And if they didn't people would complain about the NHS wasting money. |
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"I have just skimmed this thread and seen that people are angry that the NHS are not buying products which are from newly developed companies.
Healthcare companies have to bring a product to market, that has been clinically tested and proven to work. Just because some woman has turned her company into a new healthcare company doesn’t mean the products offer true protection.
Also they need to be added to a category to the NHSSC, it’s not easy to bring a new product to market or make it available to the NHS purchases. Procurement have a process to follow and buy from the NHSSC Catalogue. Just because Eric along the road has made some PPE or Ventilators doesn’t mean it will work, nor be able to provide the training to staff to ensure they know how to use it
Agree with this, a lot of the companies complaining they can't get through to the NHS are opportunists who bought PPE (never sold it before) and now want to make a quick buck.
I've seen PPE that hasn't got the correct approval and people making false claims of what a mask will do because they don't know.
I hope they get burnt and are stuck with 50000 dodgy masks when this is over.
The government should be getting a team of experienced buyers together to speak to the factories direct and do the deals it shouldn't be going through three middle men all with there fingers in the pie.
We're paying for the raf and armed forces so there's your flights and distribution sorted.
"
I see an example of this mentioned in the Daily Fail article ... "a London-based property company, turned her business into a PPE distributor working with Chinese suppliers last month as the virus began to spread around the world"
I'm sure the company was able to do the due diligence on the chinese suppliers, factory, materials and certification.
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"Can you name a few of the UK companies who are manufacturing and exporting millions of items of PPE ?
Just read a piece about stuff getting sent to the Cayman islands but doesnt name the company.
Maybe they are not allowed too?
Not sure but Isn't it a British overseas territory as well ? "
I knew it was a bit of a tax haven but you could be right |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
interesting nugget coming out of the foreign office select committee in the last hour...
remember when government was telling us they couldn't be part of the EU scheme because they didn't get emails and missed deadlines .....
well....The Foreign Office Parliamentary Under Secretary has just told a Commons Committee that it was a UK government ministerial decision NOT to take part in mass EU procurement of PPE
so.... the government fibbed....
and.... discuss........ |
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"interesting nugget coming out of the foreign office select committee in the last hour...
remember when government was telling us they couldn't be part of the EU scheme because they didn't get emails and missed deadlines .....
well....The Foreign Office Parliamentary Under Secretary has just told a Commons Committee that it was a UK government ministerial decision NOT to take part in mass EU procurement of PPE
so.... the government fibbed....
and.... discuss........"
Well I find that v hard to believe |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"interesting nugget coming out of the foreign office select committee in the last hour...
remember when government was telling us they couldn't be part of the EU scheme because they didn't get emails and missed deadlines .....
well....The Foreign Office Parliamentary Under Secretary has just told a Commons Committee that it was a UK government ministerial decision NOT to take part in mass EU procurement of PPE
so.... the government fibbed....
and.... discuss........"
I can't believe they would do that |
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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago
Wiltshire and London |
"interesting nugget coming out of the foreign office select committee in the last hour...
remember when government was telling us they couldn't be part of the EU scheme because they didn't get emails and missed deadlines .....
well....The Foreign Office Parliamentary Under Secretary has just told a Commons Committee that it was a UK government ministerial decision NOT to take part in mass EU procurement of PPE
so.... the government fibbed....
and.... discuss........"
Well fancy that, the government fibbed. The fact that they were breathing was a bit of a giveaway. |
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"interesting nugget coming out of the foreign office select committee in the last hour...
remember when government was telling us they couldn't be part of the EU scheme because they didn't get emails and missed deadlines .....
well....The Foreign Office Parliamentary Under Secretary has just told a Commons Committee that it was a UK government ministerial decision NOT to take part in mass EU procurement of PPE
so.... the government fibbed....
and.... discuss........"
Discuss the fibbing, or discuss the strategy to not take part in EU procurement ? |
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"interesting nugget coming out of the foreign office select committee in the last hour...
remember when government was telling us they couldn't be part of the EU scheme because they didn't get emails and missed deadlines .....
well....The Foreign Office Parliamentary Under Secretary has just told a Commons Committee that it was a UK government ministerial decision NOT to take part in mass EU procurement of PPE
so.... the government fibbed....
and.... discuss........"
Matt Hancock claimed that program hasn’t produced a single piece of ppe. I don’t think the press have called them out on that yet, so perhaps a grain of truth in it. So possibly a moot point at this stage |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We went through all this during Brexit, but called little englanders for saying buy British and rebuild our manufacturing. Hope remainers who said we live in a global world and stop looking inwards are taking note now. |
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"We went through all this during Brexit, but called little englanders for saying buy British and rebuild our manufacturing. Hope remainers who said we live in a global world and stop looking inwards are taking note now. "
We do live in a global world. |
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By *arksxMan
over a year ago
Leicester / London |
"We went through all this during Brexit, but called little englanders for saying buy British and rebuild our manufacturing. Hope remainers who said we live in a global world and stop looking inwards are taking note now. "
I ve heard lots or arguments for uk manufacturering
OK so who wants to give up the comfortable office job
To go beat pressed steel sheets
Or stand in a factory boxing face fp3 face masks?
I'm not against UK manufacturing or being more self sufficient.
But is has to be grounded in realism.
The uk redesigned its economy to a service sector driven economy Becuase we outsourced those jobs to ledc counties where production was cheaper.
Had we not modernised our economy we would have slipped back into a middle income trap like most countries where manufacturering is the base of the economy. Places like Brazil Russia India China.
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By *hilMan
over a year ago
HOUGHTON LE SPRING |
According to the report in the Guardian today the 84 tonnes of PPE that the government procured i.e, the 400,000 gowns that were flown in from Turkey have been impounded, every one of them not meeting UK standards, and are being held in a storage facility near Heathrow airport waiting to be sent back.
Absolutely shocking, disgusting and sickening state of affairs.
Heads must roll for this abject failure and imcompetence by the Government who claimed they had successfully delivered the PPE. Did they not have the forethought to send someone out to check the source to that consignment conformed to UK standards before it was despatched. |
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It's such a shame we didn't take the opportunity to kick start manufacturing in the UK. I know the government needed it quickly but the need for it will go on for years, if not forever. I'm sure we could have continued to source from overseas until UK manufacturing was up and running, just feels like a missed opportunity  |
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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago
Masked and Distant |
People need to realise that just because a country is nice to go on holiday to and the people are lovely to you. Doesn't mean their manufacturing capability / standards are any good.
Nobody wondered why the rest of the word wasn't buying the stuff from Turkey?
Do we know why it isn't meeting british standards? There are so many ways it could fail; from No protection against the covid down to wrong size lettering on the label. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Many European countries have had problems with sub_standard PPE and test equipment.
I'm afraid that there wasn't time to conduct proper procurement procedures. Just make sure that we don't get caught next time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Shouldn't be relying on imports from what are basically 3rd world countries....standards will never be as good. Makes you wonder what they are using in their hospitals too. Hope they get full refund! |
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"Many European countries have had problems with sub_standard PPE and test equipment.
I'm afraid that there wasn't time to conduct proper procurement procedures. Just make sure that we don't get caught next time. "
I wouldn't accept this as a reasonable reason for purchasing sub-standard items.
The problem lies with the supply chain buyers not being suitably skilled at purchasing ”outside of the box”.
Normal purchasing is from a preset list of suppliers and an approved list of product - all of which have already been checked and certified.
Step outside of that process and they are up shit creek.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As people have rightly pointed out, the NHS simply can’t/won’t accept any old PPE that’s churned out from anywhere; it needs to be to the right specification or it could be as good as useless.
I believe thousands of masks had to be rejected only a few days ago as their water resistance (iirc) wasn’t sufficient.
Approved suppliers are also likely to be a necessity I’d imagine; I’ve been involved in new supplier onboarding in the private sector where any potential poor quality in the products carries nowhere near the risk of poor PPE, but the hoops supplier need to jump through are significant.
It might seem mad given the situation and the urgency, but imagine the shitstorm if tons of faulty and substandard PPE got in.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's such a shame we didn't take the opportunity to kick start manufacturing in the UK. I know the government needed it quickly but the need for it will go on for years, if not forever. I'm sure we could have continued to source from overseas until UK manufacturing was up and running, just feels like a missed opportunity "
I watched a article on the local news last night, about a set up northumbria health have set up a unit to make it's own gowns for the hospitals in thier area. They say it is here to stay now it is set up. There are certain areas in which we need to be self sufficient as in making our own steel.
I just hope all the hospital trusts in the uk can also set up and manufacture thier own ppe for the future we should never be caught out like this again. |
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"It's such a shame we didn't take the opportunity to kick start manufacturing in the UK. I know the government needed it quickly but the need for it will go on for years, if not forever. I'm sure we could have continued to source from overseas until UK manufacturing was up and running, just feels like a missed opportunity
I watched a article on the local news last night, about a set up northumbria health have set up a unit to make it's own gowns for the hospitals in thier area. They say it is here to stay now it is set up. There are certain areas in which we need to be self sufficient as in making our own steel.
I just hope all the hospital trusts in the uk can also set up and manufacture thier own ppe for the future we should never be caught out like this again."
That's good news , I know they need a lot but it's good to get something going here |
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"I've heard lots of arguments for uk manufacturing.
OK. So, who wants to give up the comfortable office job?
To go and beat pressed steel sheets?
Or stand in a factory boxing FP3 face masks?
I'm not against UK manufacturing or being more self sufficient.
But it has to be grounded in realism.
The UK redesigned its economy to a service sector driven economy. We outsourced manufacturing jobs to countries where production was cheaper.
Had we not modernised our economy we would have slipped back into a middle income trap, like most countries where manufacturering is the base of the economy.
Places like Brazil, Russia, India and China."
Well, maybe that middle income trap wouldn't have been so bad? We could have maintained a manufacturing base, like Germany has.
Instead, we wound up with a load of wankers who had to be bailed out after they crashed the financial sector, coffee shops who don't pay anywhere near the tax they should, "celebrities" and YouTube Influencers - all making a fortune; whilst nurses and care-workers ended up visiting food banks that had been set up to help the vulnerable the Government had slashed funding for - so that the bankers' bonuses and shareholders' dividends would still be safe.
Still returning to "normal"; why not, eh? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Many European countries have had problems with sub_standard PPE and test equipment.
I'm afraid that there wasn't time to conduct proper procurement procedures. Just make sure that we don't get caught next time.
I wouldn't accept this as a reasonable reason for purchasing sub-standard items.
The problem lies with the supply chain buyers not being suitably skilled at purchasing ”outside of the box”.
Normal purchasing is from a preset list of suppliers and an approved list of product - all of which have already been checked and certified.
Step outside of that process and they are up shit creek.
"
I agree. I work with manufacturers that get correct samples from the far East. Once production is agreed, large batches come in with multiple faults, and of inferior quality compared to the samples offered. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's such a shame we didn't take the opportunity to kick start manufacturing in the UK. I know the government needed it quickly but the need for it will go on for years, if not forever. I'm sure we could have continued to source from overseas until UK manufacturing was up and running, just feels like a missed opportunity
I watched a article on the local news last night, about a set up northumbria health have set up a unit to make it's own gowns for the hospitals in thier area. They say it is here to stay now it is set up. There are certain areas in which we need to be self sufficient as in making our own steel.
I just hope all the hospital trusts in the uk can also set up and manufacture thier own ppe for the future we should never be caught out like this again.
That's good news , I know they need a lot but it's good to get something going here "
It is but the only drawback I can see is the machinists are volunteers who are furloughed...we have to do this and be able to pay the machinists in the future. It's got to be better even if it costs a tad more then paying the east for dodgy ppe that is often made in unhygienic places |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As people have rightly pointed out, the NHS simply can’t/won’t accept any old PPE that’s churned out from anywhere; it needs to be to the right specification or it could be as good as useless.
I believe thousands of masks had to be rejected only a few days ago as their water resistance (iirc) wasn’t sufficient.
Approved suppliers are also likely to be a necessity I’d imagine; I’ve been involved in new supplier onboarding in the private sector where any potential poor quality in the products carries nowhere near the risk of poor PPE, but the hoops supplier need to jump through are significant.
It might seem mad given the situation and the urgency, but imagine the shitstorm if tons of faulty and substandard PPE got in...."
|
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"I've heard lots of arguments for uk manufacturing.
OK. So, who wants to give up the comfortable office job?
To go and beat pressed steel sheets?
Or stand in a factory boxing FP3 face masks?
I'm not against UK manufacturing or being more self sufficient.
But it has to be grounded in realism.
The UK redesigned its economy to a service sector driven economy. We outsourced manufacturing jobs to countries where production was cheaper.
Had we not modernised our economy we would have slipped back into a middle income trap, like most countries where manufacturering is the base of the economy.
Places like Brazil, Russia, India and China.
Well, maybe that middle income trap wouldn't have been so bad? We could have maintained a manufacturing base, like Germany has.
Instead, we wound up with a load of wankers who had to be bailed out after they crashed the financial sector, coffee shops who don't pay anywhere near the tax they should, "celebrities" and YouTube Influencers - all making a fortune; whilst nurses and care-workers ended up visiting food banks that had been set up to help the vulnerable the Government had slashed funding for - so that the bankers' bonuses and shareholders' dividends would still be safe.
Still returning to "normal"; why not, eh?"
|
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"Many European countries have had problems with sub_standard PPE and test equipment.
I'm afraid that there wasn't time to conduct proper procurement procedures. Just make sure that we don't get caught next time.
I wouldn't accept this as a reasonable reason for purchasing sub-standard items.
The problem lies with the supply chain buyers not being suitably skilled at purchasing ”outside of the box”.
Normal purchasing is from a preset list of suppliers and an approved list of product - all of which have already been checked and certified.
Step outside of that process and they are up shit creek.
I agree. I work with manufacturers that get correct samples from the far East. Once production is agreed, large batches come in with multiple faults, and of inferior quality compared to the samples offered. "
Bsci Audited factories, 10%, 50% and pre shipment inspections and uk/eu accredited lab certification is the norm for most customers.
The suggestion from others in the thread that the far east only produces substandard product is wrong. The business of manufacture and import from the far east is not simply the process of clicking a buy now button on Alibaba, eBay or Amazon.
The far east will manufacture to the standards you require, using the materials you require and in the conditions you require. All of which can be at a much lower cost than it would be here in the UK (even allowing for the cost of shipping from the far east).
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Manufacturing, along with coal mining steel making and shipbuilding was dropped in favour of a service economy by Thatcher, and the growth of the city and investment funds and the over valuation of the gamblers who work there led to a serious disconnect in our society whereby people are paid massively for shifting debt around rather than investing in manufacturing. The reason China is so successful is that people earn less than Europeans do but more importantly the Chinese government invests huge amounts in technology and manufacturing which our country does not. Oh and incidentally Turkey produce amazingly high quality organic cotton goods so dont fall for the dirty foreigner bs that some of the twits on here like to spout. |
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"Manufacturing, along with coal mining steel making and shipbuilding was dropped in favour of a service economy by Thatcher, and the growth of the city and investment funds and the over valuation of the gamblers who work there led to a serious disconnect in our society whereby people are paid massively for shifting debt around rather than investing in manufacturing. The reason China is so successful is that people earn less than Europeans do but more importantly the Chinese government invests huge amounts in technology and manufacturing which our country does not. Oh and incidentally Turkey produce amazingly high quality organic cotton goods so dont fall for the dirty foreigner bs that some of the twits on here like to spout."
We rely far too much on the 'wealth creators'in the city and if corona has shown us anything,its how flawed that system is. |
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"I think someone needs to ask them some specifically what is wrong with them.
Just saying "we dont feel they are good enough" is not right."
Believe me mate when ppe is not up to the standard it should be, glib clichés such as staff saying 'they don't feel..' is irrelevant..
By the look of it someone has carried out their role in checking this ppe before it gets to the point whereby the people using it are not put at further risk due to it not meeting the specific criteria it should do.. |
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"I think someone needs to ask them some specifically what is wrong with them.
Just saying "we dont feel they are good enough" is not right.
Believe me mate when ppe is not up to the standard it should be, glib clichés such as staff saying 'they don't feel..' is irrelevant..
By the look of it someone has carried out their role in checking this ppe before it gets to the point whereby the people using it are not put at further risk due to it not meeting the specific criteria it should do.. "
The technical specifications for PPE are very detailed.
I wouldn't be surprised if the goods checked out at the first pass, but were later found not to meet the minimum tech spec.
For example, a standard performance gown - Hydrostatic pressure requirements (Liquid penetration) must
be 20cm H2O or above if tested to BS EN 13795
If the material used by the factory is found not to meet this standard then the gowns are deemed unsuitable.
This type of detail would be easy for a professional buyer to check, but as I have previously mentioned NHS Supply Chain buyers would not normally be required to deal with product in this way.
|
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"I think someone needs to ask them some specifically what is wrong with them.
Just saying "we dont feel they are good enough" is not right.
Believe me mate when ppe is not up to the standard it should be, glib clichés such as staff saying 'they don't feel..' is irrelevant..
By the look of it someone has carried out their role in checking this ppe before it gets to the point whereby the people using it are not put at further risk due to it not meeting the specific criteria it should do..
The technical specifications for PPE are very detailed.
I wouldn't be surprised if the goods checked out at the first pass, but were later found not to meet the minimum tech spec.
For example, a standard performance gown - Hydrostatic pressure requirements (Liquid penetration) must
be 20cm H2O or above if tested to BS EN 13795
If the material used by the factory is found not to meet this standard then the gowns are deemed unsuitable.
This type of detail would be easy for a professional buyer to check, but as I have previously mentioned NHS Supply Chain buyers would not normally be required to deal with product in this way.
"
Agree and rightly so..
Given the pressure to deliver and the demand its possible 'headless chickens' behaviour was more prevalent..
Fingers crossed we get some of the outlay back.. |
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"I think someone needs to ask them some specifically what is wrong with them.
Just saying "we dont feel they are good enough" is not right."
They're not fit for purpose but I kind of agree with this a little. Depending on what the problem is, as long as that fault is made clear to the end user. A gown with the wrong thread count has to be better than no gown at all, and there's 400,000 sat in a warehouse.
Could they be used alongside modified working practices etc? I await an internet flogging but just trying to find a possible positive in all the chaos! |
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By *arksxMan
over a year ago
Leicester / London |
"Manufacturing, along with coal mining steel making and shipbuilding was dropped in favour of a service economy by Thatcher, and the growth of the city and investment funds and the over valuation of the gamblers who work there led to a serious disconnect in our society whereby people are paid massively for shifting debt around rather than investing in manufacturing. The reason China is so successful is that people earn less than Europeans do but more importantly the Chinese government invests huge amounts in technology and manufacturing which our country does not. Oh and incidentally Turkey produce amazingly high quality organic cotton goods so dont fall for the dirty foreigner bs that some of the twits on here like to spout."
China does not invest into technology.
They mandate that any company that wants to enter its markets gives up it ip and licensing rights in order to set up business there.
Why pay for research when you cna makes other give it to you
That not to say england hasn't given up on manufacturing. It has
But like already posted... Who here on the public wants to give up their comfortable service sector job sitting in an office to go work in a factory?
If want that any that lifestyle any of the bric nations will take you. You can stay stuck in the middle income debt trap.
This a knee jerk reaction to a current problem.
The answers is to have diverse economy split across many secotors and have agrowing economy.
In reality that is incredibly difficult to do for any country.
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"I think someone needs to ask them some specifically what is wrong with them.
Just saying "we dont feel they are good enough" is not right.
They're not fit for purpose but I kind of agree with this a little. Depending on what the problem is, as long as that fault is made clear to the end user. A gown with the wrong thread count has to be better than no gown at all, and there's 400,000 sat in a warehouse.
Could they be used alongside modified working practices etc? I await an internet flogging but just trying to find a possible positive in all the chaos!"
It's not so much the internet flogging you would get on here, it would be the public flogging the government would get... you can devise your own appropriate media headline... but they would all be along the lines of "Hancock gives our NHS carers dodgy PPE"
i do in part agree with the sentiment... if the reason the gowns are deemed not to be suitable is minor enough, then it may be ok. If its a major issue, such as the gowns allow liquid to permeate, then they can not be used.
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"It's not so much the internet flogging you would get on here, it would be the public flogging the government would get... you can devise your own appropriate media headline... but they would all be along the lines of "Hancock gives our NHS carers dodgy PPE"
i do in part agree with the sentiment... if the reason the gowns are deemed not to be suitable is minor enough, then it may be ok. If its a major issue, such as the gowns allow liquid to permeate, then they can not be used.
"
Compared to the headlines of them sitting useless in a warehouse as opposed to a bit of honesty and trying to make the best of a bad situation?
There are people who will moan whatever the government do, and I've been as vocal as most on here about what they've got wrong. I'd like to think I'd be a bit more supportive if there was a little honesty and transparency instead of a constant wall of spin and bullshit.
Instead we're being told we have more deaths just because our counting methods are better, and the minister doing the rounds this morning said the gowns were a success because our quality control found the fault!
If there's a way to use the gowns by changing working practices then go for it. Whether that's reducing the time spent wearing them, putting a plastic apron on before the gown, only using them in lower risk environments, wearing 2 of the fuckers! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Saying we don’t make anything is the government fault. What about the kids being told go to university and do media studies, been bought up not to get their hands dirty. So we have to put up with any crap we can buy, because everyone wants an office job. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Same old story BRING IT BACK TO BRITAIN. Stop sending all our work abroad. Pandemic has brought us to our knees. Imagine what a war would do.
#wakeupgoverment.
"
#WakeUpCitizens more like.
This is what Tories in power do. Fuck everything up and line their own pockets. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Same old story BRING IT BACK TO BRITAIN. Stop sending all our work abroad. Pandemic has brought us to our knees. Imagine what a war would do.
#wakeupgoverment.
#WakeUpCitizens more like.
This is what Tories in power do. Fuck everything up and line their own pockets."
I think you will find that's what all politicians do.
LINE THEIR OWN POCKETS. |
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"Saying we don’t make anything is the government fault. What about the kids being told go to university and do media studies, been bought up not to get their hands dirty. So we have to put up with any crap we can buy, because everyone wants an office job. "
Been like that for too long, Thatcher got all idealogical which laid waste to large parts of our engineering which we have been crying out for of late..
Perhaps a resetting where some can't have being a youtuber or a social media influencer as a career choice but not holding my breath..
We as a country have some very bright people and need to start making more of the stuff we use.. |
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"Same old story BRING IT BACK TO BRITAIN. Stop sending all our work abroad. Pandemic has brought us to our knees. Imagine what a war would do.
#wakeupgoverment.
#WakeUpCitizens more like.
This is what Tories in power do. Fuck everything up and line their own pockets.
I think you will find that's what all politicians do.
LINE THEIR OWN POCKETS."
No they dont.Not all of them. |
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"Saying we don’t make anything is the government fault. What about the kids being told go to university and do media studies, been bought up not to get their hands dirty. So we have to put up with any crap we can buy, because everyone wants an office job.
Been like that for too long, Thatcher got all idealogical which laid waste to large parts of our engineering which we have been crying out for of late..
Perhaps a resetting where some can't have being a youtuber or a social media influencer as a career choice but not holding my breath..
We as a country have some very bright people and need to start making more of the stuff we use.. "
... particularly the stuff that makes the country function |
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"Saying we don’t make anything is the government fault. What about the kids being told go to university and do media studies, been bought up not to get their hands dirty. So we have to put up with any crap we can buy, because everyone wants an office job. "
People have a right to go to university but agree perhaps there is too much focus on that.
The sad fact is if you come from a normal family and perhaps dont have the benefits that money can being,your employment opportunities are going to be very limited.
We moved from a manufacturing based country to a service/financial one back in the 80s. |
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"Someone needs to put a stop to the complete shambles where UK companies are exporting millions of items of ppe and the NHS is waiting for imports of the same from Turkey and Myanmar..
It's beyond farcical.. "
And the ppe from Turkey didn't meet safety standards! I hope we had them on sale or return. If not let's give them to all the twats who never stuck to lockdown. They earned it |
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By *otsMan
over a year ago
Higham |
"Same old story BRING IT BACK TO BRITAIN. Stop sending all our work abroad. Pandemic has brought us to our knees. Imagine what a war would do.
#wakeupgoverment.
"
Yep, been saying this for a while maybe businesses and governments will listen.
We can never return back to how it was. |
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By *ookMan
over a year ago
london |
I heard that Laura Ashley changed the part of the company in wales that made the curtains to manufacturing scrubs... experienced machinists localish... this is the bloody spirit !!! Adapt amend overcome |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I heard that Laura Ashley changed the part of the company in wales that made the curtains to manufacturing scrubs... experienced machinists localish... this is the bloody spirit !!! Adapt amend overcome "
Mulberry in Somerset have been supplying fabric and cutting it so that scrub hub volunteers in and around bristol can produce scrubs for the nhs |
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