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Ventilators Killing People
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"I would imagine that the NHS know what they are doing! For certain, they are not actually proactively trying to kill people!!!!!" We would hope so as they are changing the way they ventilate patients now...but only now! | |||
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"If in the clinical judgement of a doctor, I'm unwell enough to need one of these, I'll happily take my chances. " Choosing death over a chance (albeit small chance) of life - how bizarre! Good luck. | |||
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"They have always said ventilators are a very brutal form of treatment and they do cause some damage to the patient by the very nature of inserting a tube so far into the Airway. Sometimes aggressive treatments are needed in an emergency situation and it can go ether way
"Only whe the patient lands on them almost unconscious...have you read the links? It seems that what saved boris by not putting him on a intrusive ventilator....and read my comment on the other thread that I posted a link to...it will give you a better insight to it | |||
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"If in the clinical judgement of a doctor, I'm unwell enough to need one of these, I'll happily take my chances. Choosing death over a chance (albeit small chance) of life - how bizarre! Good luck." So, the key words there were clinical judgement. Thankfully you aren't a doctor. Therefore I'll stand by my original statement. | |||
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"By the stage you need ventilation your already in a very very bad place, it's a last resort and hence 50/50 is a pretty good result given the alternative. Of course I'm sure the daily fail know better how to treat a patient that's pretty much dead already." Read all links I posted | |||
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"If in the clinical judgement of a doctor, I'm unwell enough to need one of these, I'll happily take my chances. " Believe me I've been there and dont go for the intrusive one! I've been telling friends this for ages and it seems I've been proved right | |||
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"If in the clinical judgement of a doctor, I'm unwell enough to need one of these, I'll happily take my chances. Choosing death over a chance (albeit small chance) of life - how bizarre! Good luck."  | |||
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"its better than letting people drown in the liquid filling up their lungs. I'm sure the doctors know what they are doing. " You have more faith then me then | |||
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"I’m confused by the purpose of this thread. I’m sure the medics know what they are doing. " Read all the links I posted | |||
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"If in the clinical judgement of a doctor, I'm unwell enough to need one of these, I'll happily take my chances. Choosing death over a chance (albeit small chance) of life - how bizarre! Good luck. So, the key words there were clinical judgement. Thankfully you aren't a doctor. Therefore I'll stand by my original statement." I challenged that clinical judgement and thankfully I did or I wouldn't be typing this now. I posted this thread as a heads up | |||
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"It's almost as if the original decision to let it rip through the population so that many people would need hospitalisation and intubation was ill-advised and reckless. It's a shame there was no advice from other countries that had gone through this earlier." Only my opinion but I think that this government still intends to let it rip some more there appears to be no real traction on an aggressive elimination strategy of testing, tracking and tracing using technology. The concerns are more about the economy ! | |||
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"It's almost as if the original decision to let it rip through the population so that many people would need hospitalisation and intubation was ill-advised and reckless. It's a shame there was no advice from other countries that had gone through this earlier." They all just followed china but china got it wrong | |||
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"So you've been there, and your still here. Looks like it did the job then. " Obviously you havent read this  | |||
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"It's almost as if the original decision to let it rip through the population so that many people would need hospitalisation and intubation was ill-advised and reckless. It's a shame there was no advice from other countries that had gone through this earlier. Only my opinion but I think that this government still intends to let it rip some more there appears to be no real traction on an aggressive elimination strategy of testing, tracking and tracing using technology. The concerns are more about the economy !" That's all been discussed....this is trying to give you some insight for you or a person you care for to be aware of this | |||
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"You challenged a clinical judgement, whilst un conscious on a ventilator? That's some going." Ffs read athread before just posting a throwaway comment | |||
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"So if I'm understanding this thread correctly we have someone here alive and well telling us how deadly the ventilator they were on was?" No your not understanding because you havent read what I put have you | |||
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"It's almost as if the original decision to let it rip through the population so that many people would need hospitalisation and intubation was ill-advised and reckless. It's a shame there was no advice from other countries that had gone through this earlier. They all just followed china but china got it wrong "Yes, if only we had been able to see television reporting of how bad it was in places like cruise ships, italy and spain, at the time that our government needed to make decisions. Oh wait, yes we could, we actually had experience of European countries admitting that they made the wrong choices, showing the results on the telly, and telling us to do better. | |||
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"No thanks. I'll trust the highly trained doctors to use all the equipment at their disposal based on a risk verses benefit assessment when they are trying to save someone's life." Good luck then | |||
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"It's almost as if the original decision to let it rip through the population so that many people would need hospitalisation and intubation was ill-advised and reckless. It's a shame there was no advice from other countries that had gone through this earlier. They all just followed china but china got it wrong
Yes, if only we had been able to see television reporting of how bad it was in places like cruise ships, italy and spain, at the time that our government needed to make decisions. Oh wait, yes we could, we actually had experience of European countries admitting that they made the wrong choices, showing the results on the telly, and telling us to do better."Well hopefully they are going to go down this route now...I just hope they have got enough non intrusive ventilators. ...and they can cancel buying anymore intrusive ones | |||
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"So if I'm understanding this thread correctly we have someone here alive and well telling us how deadly the ventilator they were on was? No your not understanding because you havent read what I put have you "Och well, looks like I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. If however I do end up needing a ventilator I'll be sure to tell the doctors I don't want it as a tranny stranger on a swinging website told me I shouldn't have it. | |||
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"Will go with the docs advice if it ever comes to it not much of a choice anyway "If your conscious you do have a choice...I did. Did you read the link on the other thread I posted? | |||
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"So if I'm understanding this thread correctly we have someone here alive and well telling us how deadly the ventilator they were on was? No your not understanding because you havent read what I put have you
Och well, looks like I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. If however I do end up needing a ventilator I'll be sure to tell the doctors I don't want it as a tranny stranger on a swinging website told me I shouldn't have it."You do that...it might just save your life! | |||
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"Will go with the docs advice if it ever comes to it not much of a choice anyway
If your conscious you do have a choice...I did.
Did you read the link on the other thread I posted?"The fact you're believing anything written in the Daily Mail is reason enough not to listen to your advice. | |||
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"Will go with the docs advice if it ever comes to it not much of a choice anyway
If your conscious you do have a choice...I did.
Did you read the link on the other thread I posted?
The fact you're believing anything written in the Daily Mail is reason enough not to listen to your advice."Ah well we will end it here as you didn't read I seen it on newsnight last night but could find a link. Good luck and hopefully have a long life. Bye | |||
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"Will go with the docs advice if it ever comes to it not much of a choice anyway
If your conscious you do have a choice...I did.
Did you read the link on the other thread I posted?
The fact you're believing anything written in the Daily Mail is reason enough not to listen to your advice.
Ah well we will end it here as you didn't read I seen it on newsnight last night but could find a link.
Good luck and hopefully have a long life. Bye"Let's hope those in ICU read the daily mail  | |||
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"Will go with the docs advice if it ever comes to it not much of a choice anyway
If your conscious you do have a choice...I did.
Did you read the link on the other thread I posted?
The fact you're believing anything written in the Daily Mail is reason enough not to listen to your advice.
Ah well we will end it here as you didn't read I seen it on newsnight last night but could find a link.
Good luck and hopefully have a long life. Bye
Let's hope those in ICU read the daily mail "Or watch newsnight  | |||
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"You're missing the face that they do this multiple times a day to anyone receiving general anaesthetic. I've had it a few times and yeah it scratches your throat but it doesn't last very long. My daughter had it when she was on life support from 0-3 days old. It's not an uncommon procedure but its only used when necessary." Read the link...its horses for courses | |||
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"I made a post of my experience in icu with ventilators...I'll get the link to the thread for the next post. But it's as I thought and it was on newsnight last night that the intrusive ventilators are actually causing more harm then good. Have a read of a article I found in the mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html Your thoughts? " My thoughts are that it’s the Daily Mail, they have long had an ideological hatred of the NHS. Given the option I’d choose an ICU doctor’s opinion over a Daily Mail hack’s every day of the week. Sadly we are told these days that every opinion holds equal value, they really do not. | |||
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"I made a post of my experience in icu with ventilators...I'll get the link to the thread for the next post. But it's as I thought and it was on newsnight last night that the intrusive ventilators are actually causing more harm then good. Have a read of a article I found in the mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html Your thoughts? My thoughts are that it’s the Daily Mail, they have long had an ideological hatred of the NHS. Given the option I’d choose an ICU doctor’s opinion over a Daily Mail hack’s every day of the week. Sadly we are told these days that every opinion holds equal value, they really do not." But did you read my experience on the other thread? And it was newsnight I first watched and hey I'm not posting this to tell people what to do...just making awareness of my experience and what I seen last night | |||
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"You challenged a clinical judgement, whilst un conscious on a ventilator? That's some going." | |||
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"It is apoarent from qualified ICU staff that the Dyson verson of a ventilator is not suitable for more than 7 hours use due to lack of correct pressure and control while in operation. They appear to be no more than a paramedic 'bag' pump carried on ambulances. Although the idea works, it is extremely crude and there us suggestion that they might be a waste if money. They'd keep someone alive for a few hours while waiting but the consequences of lack of sophistication would be long term lung damage. USA have dismissed the idea in favour of "high quality" units which is reference to properly controlled by electronics and sensors. I have seen circuit boards being designed for the electronics for a well known brand of ventilators and the intelligemce built in was unbelievable, especially for new borns where there is potential to literally burst the lungs. It is just not simply squeezing a ball 12 times per minute. Pressure and volume is critical otherwise why not just use these instead. Oxygen control is also crude where too high mixture will oxydise lung tissue itselt and destroy it, I think it was a knee jerk useless solution that sounds good." The type that has the best outcome is the (NPPV) type | |||
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"So fab experts really do know more than the qualified professionals with decades of knowledge and experience
* looks for sarcasm emoji "Roll eye emoji | |||
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"So fab experts really do know more than the qualified professionals with decades of knowledge and experience
* looks for sarcasm emoji
Roll eye emoji"There is one of them | |||
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"You challenged a clinical judgement, whilst un conscious on a ventilator? That's some going. "Another great contibution | |||
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"So fab experts really do know more than the qualified professionals with decades of knowledge and experience
* looks for sarcasm emoji
Roll eye emoji
There is one of them "Right well it looks like we have nothing to say...goodbye | |||
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"It's not news that people who need invasive ventilation have poor outcomes. That comes with the territory with them being the most unwell. In the majority of cases all other options will be tried before being put on a ventilator because the dangers are known. There will be tweaks and changes to treatments as they learn more about the condition, but unilateral changes are not going to be made on the whim of one relatively junior American doctor and one experience on here. Without ventilation some people will die. With ventilation some will still die anyway. There will always be cases where someone "proves" medics wrong, but it needs to be remembered that that is just that - one case." On newsnight last night the doctor said the methods they had been using was at best 50/50 and by changing to this way the outcome should be more like 65/35 in the patients favour....that's the facts of this...but dont forget that they may have more of one vent then the other. I know what I would be hoping for | |||
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"Must admit to having only just read this story. To be fair the doctor in question does make a strong and logical case, he also has a few eminent backers. However I think it is safe to say that the jury is still out on this one. I think though that it will be indicative of what is to come from the medical profession. They have only had a few weeks of experience with this virus so even the best doctors will be on a steep learning curve. It is quite possible that what seems like good practise today could be deemed downright dangerous tomorrow." It looks far better then the 50/50 outcome | |||
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"I wonder if there will be a post saying : " Keep out of all hospitals as people Die in them " "Sadly a lot are dying by thinking that way
And that couldn't be further away from why I made this post... | |||
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"I made a post of my experience in icu with ventilators...I'll get the link to the thread for the next post. But it's as I thought and it was on newsnight last night that the intrusive ventilators are actually causing more harm then good. Have a read of a article I found in the mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html Your thoughts? " My immediate thought is that citing the Daily Heil as a reliable source of anything at all isn't very convincing. | |||
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"Must admit to having only just read this story. To be fair the doctor in question does make a strong and logical case, he also has a few eminent backers. However I think it is safe to say that the jury is still out on this one. I think though that it will be indicative of what is to come from the medical profession. They have only had a few weeks of experience with this virus so even the best doctors will be on a steep learning curve. It is quite possible that what seems like good practise today could be deemed downright dangerous tomorrow." This.. Op you've started this thread with I believe the best intent but it's not based upon your own experience of this virus.. This as stated is new to the people who at the highest level make clinical decisions day in and day out.. Yes as they the medical professionals garner more evidence of this virus and what the best way to treat it then things might change.. You have no position other than your own not relevant experiences to be suggesting that anyone in these circumstances listens to you.. | |||
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"I wonder if there will be a post saying : " Keep out of all hospitals as people Die in them " "27 years Ive worked in hospitals. If I had a quid for every time I'd heard a patient or relative claim "they were fine when they came in" I'd have a nice wee nest egg. Clearly they weren't fine when they came in otherwise they wouldn't fucking be there | |||
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" On newsnight last night the doctor said the methods they had been using was at best 50/50 and by changing to this way the outcome should be more like 65/35 in the patients favour....that's the facts of this...but dont forget that they may have more of one vent then the other. I know what I would be hoping for "That is not "the facts" of this. That is the opinion of that doctor. So far one American Dr and one German have suggested this could be an issue. Suggesting you are the only one on the thread who is interested in a better outcome is patronising at best and offensive at worse. Doctors don't put people on ventilators if they don't feel it's the best, or final, resort. None of the staff I work with would opt for an obviously less effective treatment option. However, what do you suggest they do? Atm ventilation at the end point is the recognised best path. If they start watching people die to prove or disprove that Dr's point people are going to get very pissed off very quickly. Perhaps the American Dr should focus on working out why patients in his state have a 20/80 chance of survival after being ventilated when patients here have 50/50... | |||
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"I made a post of my experience in icu with ventilators...I'll get the link to the thread for the next post. But it's as I thought and it was on newsnight last night that the intrusive ventilators are actually causing more harm then good. Have a read of a article I found in the mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html Your thoughts? My immediate thought is that citing the Daily Heil as a reliable source of anything at all isn't very convincing." And mine is not another one who hasn't read the post... | |||
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"Must admit to having only just read this story. To be fair the doctor in question does make a strong and logical case, he also has a few eminent backers. However I think it is safe to say that the jury is still out on this one. I think though that it will be indicative of what is to come from the medical profession. They have only had a few weeks of experience with this virus so even the best doctors will be on a steep learning curve. It is quite possible that what seems like good practise today could be deemed downright dangerous tomorrow. This.. Op you've started this thread with I believe the best intent but it's not based upon your own experience of this virus.. This as stated is new to the people who at the highest level make clinical decisions day in and day out.. Yes as they the medical professionals garner more evidence of this virus and what the best way to treat it then things might change.. You have no position other than your own not relevant experiences to be suggesting that anyone in these circumstances listens to you.. " I can take that as you said on my experience, it's a fair point that they are not the same conditions. But I would add if you can get last nights newsnight up on iplayer(I cant) and watch the report by english doctors it may change your view a little...it made me more optimistic | |||
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" On newsnight last night the doctor said the methods they had been using was at best 50/50 and by changing to this way the outcome should be more like 65/35 in the patients favour....that's the facts of this...but dont forget that they may have more of one vent then the other. I know what I would be hoping for
That is not "the facts" of this. That is the opinion of that doctor. So far one American Dr and one German have suggested this could be an issue.
Suggesting you are the only one on the thread who is interested in a better outcome is patronising at best and offensive at worse.
Doctors don't put people on ventilators if they don't feel it's the best, or final, resort. None of the staff I work with would opt for an obviously less effective treatment option. However, what do you suggest they do? Atm ventilation at the end point is the recognised best path. If they start watching people die to prove or disprove that Dr's point people are going to get very pissed off very quickly.
Perhaps the American Dr should focus on working out why patients in his state have a 20/80 chance of survival after being ventilated when patients here have 50/50...
"As I said to the last post...see if you can get newsnight up on iplayer. | |||
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"I read this earlier. The key point the American doctor made was that ventilators are effective at heating pneumonia however he believes that the affects of coronavirus to the lungs is more similar to lack of oxygen due to altitude. Therefore he suggests that an oxygen supply via mask is a more suitable treatment." As theblast 2 posts | |||
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"If in the clinical judgement of a doctor, I'm unwell enough to need one of these, I'll happily take my chances. Choosing death over a chance (albeit small chance) of life - how bizarre! Good luck." I choose not to be ventilated. It's not the same as choosing death. If the lungs are congested there is no point in filling them with air they can't take the oxygen to the blood. People are not dying of pneumonia they are dying of non oxygenated blood. | |||
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"A few weeks ago when this was mentioned I said to a friend that I didn't want to be put on a ventilator. I couldn't say why but it seemed extreme to me.... No way did I want to spend weeks being breathed for. The success rate was not high and i thought it was unecessary suffering. I felt vindicated listening to the doctor speak who believes that people should have oxygen injected into their blood and that trying to ventilate clogged lungs is doing no good. " Nice one granny | |||
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"A few weeks ago when this was mentioned I said to a friend that I didn't want to be put on a ventilator. I couldn't say why but it seemed extreme to me.... No way did I want to spend weeks being breathed for. The success rate was not high and i thought it was unecessary suffering. I felt vindicated listening to the doctor speak who believes that people should have oxygen injected into their blood and that trying to ventilate clogged lungs is doing no good. " Would you be happy to make that decision, rather than the medical team treating you? If after choosing not to have a ventilator your condition deteriorates, what would you suggest the medical team do next? | |||
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"A few weeks ago when this was mentioned I said to a friend that I didn't want to be put on a ventilator. I couldn't say why but it seemed extreme to me.... No way did I want to spend weeks being breathed for. The success rate was not high and i thought it was unecessary suffering. I felt vindicated listening to the doctor speak who believes that people should have oxygen injected into their blood and that trying to ventilate clogged lungs is doing no good. Would you be happy to make that decision, rather than the medical team treating you? If after choosing not to have a ventilator your condition deteriorates, what would you suggest the medical team do next? " Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me | |||
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"I made a post of my experience in icu with ventilators...I'll get the link to the thread for the next post. But it's as I thought and it was on newsnight last night that the intrusive ventilators are actually causing more harm then good. Have a read of a article I found in the mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html Your thoughts? " Have you been treated for Covid19 and recovered? | |||
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" On newsnight last night the doctor said the methods they had been using was at best 50/50 and by changing to this way the outcome should be more like 65/35 in the patients favour....that's the facts of this...but dont forget that they may have more of one vent then the other. I know what I would be hoping for
That is not "the facts" of this. That is the opinion of that doctor. So far one American Dr and one German have suggested this could be an issue.
Suggesting you are the only one on the thread who is interested in a better outcome is patronising at best and offensive at worse.
Doctors don't put people on ventilators if they don't feel it's the best, or final, resort. None of the staff I work with would opt for an obviously less effective treatment option. However, what do you suggest they do? Atm ventilation at the end point is the recognised best path. If they start watching people die to prove or disprove that Dr's point people are going to get very pissed off very quickly.
Perhaps the American Dr should focus on working out why patients in his state have a 20/80 chance of survival after being ventilated when patients here have 50/50...
As I said to the last post...see if you can get newsnight up on iplayer.
"You really do like taking a patronising tone with people I watched Newsnight. It’s not anymore reliable of a source than the Daily Mail. | |||
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"I made a post of my experience in icu with ventilators...I'll get the link to the thread for the next post. But it's as I thought and it was on newsnight last night that the intrusive ventilators are actually causing more harm then good. Have a read of a article I found in the mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html Your thoughts? Have you been treated for Covid19 and recovered?" No  that's why I put the links...mine was just plain old double pneumonia...but the experience I had which is linked to the first post, then hearing this last night made me think
Hopefully they have got it right and the death rates drop | |||
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" On newsnight last night the doctor said the methods they had been using was at best 50/50 and by changing to this way the outcome should be more like 65/35 in the patients favour....that's the facts of this...but dont forget that they may have more of one vent then the other. I know what I would be hoping for
That is not "the facts" of this. That is the opinion of that doctor. So far one American Dr and one German have suggested this could be an issue.
Suggesting you are the only one on the thread who is interested in a better outcome is patronising at best and offensive at worse.
Doctors don't put people on ventilators if they don't feel it's the best, or final, resort. None of the staff I work with would opt for an obviously less effective treatment option. However, what do you suggest they do? Atm ventilation at the end point is the recognised best path. If they start watching people die to prove or disprove that Dr's point people are going to get very pissed off very quickly.
Perhaps the American Dr should focus on working out why patients in his state have a 20/80 chance of survival after being ventilated when patients here have 50/50...
As I said to the last post...see if you can get newsnight up on iplayer.
You really do like taking a patronising tone with people
I watched Newsnight. It’s not anymore reliable of a source than the Daily Mail.
"Ah well I wont patronise you anymore | |||
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"A few weeks ago when this was mentioned I said to a friend that I didn't want to be put on a ventilator. I couldn't say why but it seemed extreme to me.... No way did I want to spend weeks being breathed for. The success rate was not high and i thought it was unecessary suffering. I felt vindicated listening to the doctor speak who believes that people should have oxygen injected into their blood and that trying to ventilate clogged lungs is doing no good. Would you be happy to make that decision, rather than the medical team treating you? If after choosing not to have a ventilator your condition deteriorates, what would you suggest the medical team do next? Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me" 
You wouldn’t trust the medical team? | |||
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" On newsnight last night the doctor said the methods they had been using was at best 50/50 and by changing to this way the outcome should be more like 65/35 in the patients favour....that's the facts of this...but dont forget that they may have more of one vent then the other. I know what I would be hoping for
That is not "the facts" of this. That is the opinion of that doctor. So far one American Dr and one German have suggested this could be an issue.
Suggesting you are the only one on the thread who is interested in a better outcome is patronising at best and offensive at worse.
Doctors don't put people on ventilators if they don't feel it's the best, or final, resort. None of the staff I work with would opt for an obviously less effective treatment option. However, what do you suggest they do? Atm ventilation at the end point is the recognised best path. If they start watching people die to prove or disprove that Dr's point people are going to get very pissed off very quickly.
Perhaps the American Dr should focus on working out why patients in his state have a 20/80 chance of survival after being ventilated when patients here have 50/50...
As I said to the last post...see if you can get newsnight up on iplayer.
You really do like taking a patronising tone with people
I watched Newsnight. It’s not anymore reliable of a source than the Daily Mail.
"It didn't 'sound' patronising to me in all fairness. | |||
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" Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me" And I would go with that too...if that's not too patronising granny | |||
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"A few weeks ago when this was mentioned I said to a friend that I didn't want to be put on a ventilator. I couldn't say why but it seemed extreme to me.... No way did I want to spend weeks being breathed for. The success rate was not high and i thought it was unecessary suffering. I felt vindicated listening to the doctor speak who believes that people should have oxygen injected into their blood and that trying to ventilate clogged lungs is doing no good. Would you be happy to make that decision, rather than the medical team treating you? If after choosing not to have a ventilator your condition deteriorates, what would you suggest the medical team do next? Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me
You wouldn’t trust the medical team?"Right up until they said take her breathing away and breath for her...... then i'd say no thanks. Don't forget it's my body and my life. No to tubilation for me. | |||
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" Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me And I would go with that too...if that's not too patronising granny "As long as there are two masks dear then be my guest. If there's only one then..... my self preservation instinct kicks in  | |||
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" Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me And I would go with that too...if that's not too patronising granny
As long as there are two masks dear then be my guest.
If there's only one then..... my self preservation instinct kicks in "I can go with that | |||
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"I’m confused by the purpose of this thread. I’m sure the medics know what they are doing. " I'm not saying OP is right but this is not only a terrible argument but a terrible attitude. You can never assume that because someone does a job that they know what they are doing. Everyone should be held accountable for their decisions/actions and there is no reason that people not doing that job can't question that. | |||
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"The main thing to remember is Drs want to save your life. They want to do what’s best for you, they want you to recover! Are there potentially more effective pathways for treating Covid19? Maybe. But at the moment they are doing everything they can with limited resources and ventilation is currently the end step in a complex but recognised pathway of care. " Understood. If an old biddy in a care home and as for DNR then an old biddy in her own home should be able to ask for DNR. | |||
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"I made a post of my experience in icu with ventilators...I'll get the link to the thread for the next post. But it's as I thought and it was on newsnight last night that the intrusive ventilators are actually causing more harm then good. Have a read of a article I found in the mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html Your thoughts? My thoughts are that it’s the Daily Mail, they have long had an ideological hatred of the NHS. Given the option I’d choose an ICU doctor’s opinion over a Daily Mail hack’s every day of the week. Sadly we are told these days that every opinion holds equal value, they really do not." It's almost as if the government have botched up the promised delivery of lots of new ventilators, so need a distraction.... Is Michael Gove's wife still a senior journo at the Daily Fail? | |||
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"The main thing to remember is Drs want to save your life. They want to do what’s best for you, they want you to recover! Are there potentially more effective pathways for treating Covid19? Maybe. But at the moment they are doing everything they can with limited resources and ventilation is currently the end step in a complex but recognised pathway of care. Understood. If an old biddy in a care home and as for DNR then an old biddy in her own home should be able to ask for DNR. " Anybody can refuse treatment at any stage of the process - for CV19 or any other illness / disease / injury | |||
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" On newsnight last night the doctor said the methods they had been using was at best 50/50 and by changing to this way the outcome should be more like 65/35 in the patients favour....that's the facts of this...but dont forget that they may have more of one vent then the other. I know what I would be hoping for
That is not "the facts" of this. That is the opinion of that doctor. So far one American Dr and one German have suggested this could be an issue.
Suggesting you are the only one on the thread who is interested in a better outcome is patronising at best and offensive at worse.
Doctors don't put people on ventilators if they don't feel it's the best, or final, resort. None of the staff I work with would opt for an obviously less effective treatment option. However, what do you suggest they do? Atm ventilation at the end point is the recognised best path. If they start watching people die to prove or disprove that Dr's point people are going to get very pissed off very quickly.
Perhaps the American Dr should focus on working out why patients in his state have a 20/80 chance of survival after being ventilated when patients here have 50/50...
As I said to the last post...see if you can get newsnight up on iplayer.
You really do like taking a patronising tone with people
I watched Newsnight. It’s not anymore reliable of a source than the Daily Mail.
It didn't 'sound' patronising to me in all fairness. "It did to me The OP has nothing to say to any point anyone makes except wanting a better outcome - as if the rest of us are quite happy to watch people die needlessly | |||
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"A few weeks ago when this was mentioned I said to a friend that I didn't want to be put on a ventilator. I couldn't say why but it seemed extreme to me.... No way did I want to spend weeks being breathed for. The success rate was not high and i thought it was unecessary suffering. I felt vindicated listening to the doctor speak who believes that people should have oxygen injected into their blood and that trying to ventilate clogged lungs is doing no good. Would you be happy to make that decision, rather than the medical team treating you? If after choosing not to have a ventilator your condition deteriorates, what would you suggest the medical team do next? Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me
You wouldn’t trust the medical team?
Right up until they said take her breathing away and breath for her...... then i'd say no thanks.
Don't forget it's my body and my life.
No to tubilation for me."Would you sign an indemnity to that effect ? | |||
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"I must say, it's reassuring to have so many medical experts on fab, I'd have thought you'd all be too busy to explain ventilation to us mere mortals but thanks for taking the time" No one said they were an expert. Sorry you are mortal xx | |||
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"A few weeks ago when this was mentioned I said to a friend that I didn't want to be put on a ventilator. I couldn't say why but it seemed extreme to me.... No way did I want to spend weeks being breathed for. The success rate was not high and i thought it was unecessary suffering. I felt vindicated listening to the doctor speak who believes that people should have oxygen injected into their blood and that trying to ventilate clogged lungs is doing no good. Would you be happy to make that decision, rather than the medical team treating you? If after choosing not to have a ventilator your condition deteriorates, what would you suggest the medical team do next? Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me
You wouldn’t trust the medical team?
Right up until they said take her breathing away and breath for her...... then i'd say no thanks.
Don't forget it's my body and my life.
No to tubilation for me.
Would you sign an indemnity to that effect ?"I'd sign anything that guaranteed it wouldn't be done to me. | |||
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"A few weeks ago when this was mentioned I said to a friend that I didn't want to be put on a ventilator. I couldn't say why but it seemed extreme to me.... No way did I want to spend weeks being breathed for. The success rate was not high and i thought it was unecessary suffering. I felt vindicated listening to the doctor speak who believes that people should have oxygen injected into their blood and that trying to ventilate clogged lungs is doing no good. Would you be happy to make that decision, rather than the medical team treating you? If after choosing not to have a ventilator your condition deteriorates, what would you suggest the medical team do next? Give me a Boris mask and two nurses..... Just don't tubilate me
You wouldn’t trust the medical team?
Right up until they said take her breathing away and breath for her...... then i'd say no thanks.
Don't forget it's my body and my life.
No to tubilation for me.
Would you sign an indemnity to that effect ?
I'd sign anything that guaranteed it wouldn't be done to me. "including a DNR ? | |||
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"I’m confused by the purpose of this thread. I’m sure the medics know what they are doing. I'm not saying OP is right but this is not only a terrible argument but a terrible attitude. You can never assume that because someone does a job that they know what they are doing. Everyone should be held accountable for their decisions/actions and there is no reason that people not doing that job can't question that. " I understand but they are dealing with a virus that is not completely familiar to them. I tend to trust medical staff as they have medical qualifications and training which I do not have. However treatment is not forced on any patient. | |||
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"Stop standing over me with a pen n paper... I don't want to be tubilated. Maybe i'll feel differently on my death bed but I doubt it. " ok
so no pen pushing, no tubes - if you are going to kack it, so be it ? | |||
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"Stop standing over me with a pen n paper... I don't want to be tubilated. Maybe i'll feel differently on my death bed but I doubt it. ok
so no pen pushing, no tubes - if you are going to kack it, so be it ?"Yeah ....... just let me go ...... I'm a coward so I'd like it to be painless if poss | |||
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"The main thing to remember is Drs want to save your life. They want to do what’s best for you, they want you to recover! Are there potentially more effective pathways for treating Covid19? Maybe. But at the moment they are doing everything they can with limited resources and ventilation is currently the end step in a complex but recognised pathway of care. " That's fair enough..I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do,just giving my experience and a update on this...oh and it was covered in today's daily briefing. | |||
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"I’m firmly in the “keeping my eyes open” camp and staying at home as long as possible - whilst firing strawberries, raspberries, blueberries and Scotch Whiskey down my neck to fight back. As an asthmatic I know just how frightening it can be not being able to breathe right, but I also know It’s far better to be sat up than laid down, filling your lungs with as much air as you can. At 50:50 odds of survival, being tubed and vented, and rolled every few hours is not for me, and neither is some newly-qualified hospital doctor telling me I need to go on one. When I’m ready for one, I’ll ask, until then I’m CPAP all the way with regular checks and Yorkshire Tea please. The NHS are doing (and always have done) an amazing job, but I know how the system works, and just like in any line of work, there the competent and incompetent, and the ones looking for an easy life. Please don’t be offended, my family has worked on the front line of the NHS for many years." xx xx | |||
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"I made a post of my experience in icu with ventilators...I'll get the link to the thread for the next post. But it's as I thought and it was on newsnight last night that the intrusive ventilators are actually causing more harm then good. Have a read of a article I found in the mail here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html Your thoughts? My thoughts are that it’s the Daily Mail, they have long had an ideological hatred of the NHS. Given the option I’d choose an ICU doctor’s opinion over a Daily Mail hack’s every day of the week. Sadly we are told these days that every opinion holds equal value, they really do not.It's almost as if the government have botched up the promised delivery of lots of new ventilators, so need a distraction.... Is Michael Gove's wife still a senior journo at the Daily Fail?" I dont trust this government at all...but this is new info from worldwide doctors. | |||
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"For those of you who state you don't want ventilation or active treatment you really need to consider an advanced directive, or health power of attorney. At least have a discussion with family or close friends to express your wishes. Think long and hard and discuss facts first. Stay safe. "I'm bloody trying my best to stay safe | |||
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"I’m firmly in the “keeping my eyes open” camp and staying at home as long as possible - whilst firing strawberries, raspberries, blueberries and Scotch Whiskey down my neck to fight back. As an asthmatic I know just how frightening it can be not being able to breathe right, but I also know It’s far better to be sat up than laid down, filling your lungs with as much air as you can. At 50:50 odds of survival, being tubed and vented, and rolled every few hours is not for me, and neither is some newly-qualified hospital doctor telling me I need to go on one. When I’m ready for one, I’ll ask, until then I’m CPAP all the way with regular checks and Yorkshire Tea please. The NHS are doing (and always have done) an amazing job, but I know how the system works, and just like in any line of work, there the competent and incompetent, and the ones looking for an easy life. Please don’t be offended, my family has worked on the front line of the NHS for many years." That's it mate we are not sheep and many a doctor will tell you...you know your own body. So yeah we need to question things | |||
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"Stop standing over me with a pen n paper... I don't want to be tubilated. Maybe i'll feel differently on my death bed but I doubt it. ok
so no pen pushing, no tubes - if you are going to kack it, so be it ?
Yeah ....... just let me go ...... I'm a coward so I'd like it to be painless if poss"Such a waste | |||
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"I’m firmly in the “keeping my eyes open” camp and staying at home as long as possible - whilst firing strawberries, raspberries, blueberries and Scotch Whiskey down my neck to fight back. As an asthmatic I know just how frightening it can be not being able to breathe right, but I also know It’s far better to be sat up than laid down, filling your lungs with as much air as you can. At 50:50 odds of survival, being tubed and vented, and rolled every few hours is not for me, and neither is some newly-qualified hospital doctor telling me I need to go on one. When I’m ready for one, I’ll ask, until then I’m CPAP all the way with regular checks and Yorkshire Tea please. The NHS are doing (and always have done) an amazing job, but I know how the system works, and just like in any line of work, there the competent and incompetent, and the ones looking for an easy life. Please don’t be offended, my family has worked on the front line of the NHS for many years." Totally agree, the worse thing when your chest is tight is to lie down | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier "Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer?? Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge? Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider | |||
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"Stop standing over me with a pen n paper... I don't want to be tubilated. Maybe i'll feel differently on my death bed but I doubt it. ok
so no pen pushing, no tubes - if you are going to kack it, so be it ?
Yeah ....... just let me go ...... I'm a coward so I'd like it to be painless if poss
Such a waste "I know..... but could you eat me all in one sitting ? | |||
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"Stop standing over me with a pen n paper... I don't want to be tubilated. Maybe i'll feel differently on my death bed but I doubt it. ok
so no pen pushing, no tubes - if you are going to kack it, so be it ?
Yeah ....... just let me go ...... I'm a coward so I'd like it to be painless if poss
Such a waste I know..... but could you eat me all in one sitting ?"Little and often | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier
Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer??
Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge?
Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider "You leave a lot of question Mark's dont you? Read the thread and you might get the answers | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier
Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer??
Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge?
Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider
You leave a lot of question Mark's dont you? Read the thread and you might get the answers "One simple question- Did you have Coronavirus? | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier
Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer??
Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge?
I will ask you one simple question - did you have Coronavirus?
Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider
You leave a lot of question Mark's dont you? Read the thread and you might get the answers "It wasn't that fecking simple...did you see where you posted it? And yet again the answer is on the thread...which is no. | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier
Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer??
Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge?
I will ask you one simple question - did you have Coronavirus?
Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider
You leave a lot of question Mark's dont you? Read the thread and you might get the answers
It wasn't that fecking simple...did you see where you posted it?
And yet again the answer is on the thread...which is no."You have started the most irresponsible thread I have ever read in here. You may as well have just started a thread saying ‘Look at me’ You have no medical knowledge and just want some attention | |||
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"Just stop reading the bloody daily mail... On that note, can we add ‘daily mail reader’ to the search filters on here? Imagine finding out someone was a reader mid meet!" I used a search engine...yes not google and the bloody daily mail was all that came up ffs | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier
Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer??
Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge?
I will ask you one simple question - did you have Coronavirus?
Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider
You leave a lot of question Mark's dont you? Read the thread and you might get the answers
It wasn't that fecking simple...did you see where you posted it?
And yet again the answer is on the thread...which is no.
You have started the most irresponsible thread I have ever read in here. You may as well have just started a thread saying ‘Look at me’
You have no medical knowledge and just want some attention"Give your head a wobble pal | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier
Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer??
Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge?
I will ask you one simple question - did you have Coronavirus?
Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider
You leave a lot of question Mark's dont you? Read the thread and you might get the answers
It wasn't that fecking simple...did you see where you posted it?
And yet again the answer is on the thread...which is no.
You have started the most irresponsible thread I have ever read in here. You may as well have just started a thread saying ‘Look at me’
You have no medical knowledge and just want some attention
Give your head a wobble pal "You discuss in such an intelligent fashion | |||
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"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier
Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer??
Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge?
I will ask you one simple question - did you have Coronavirus?
Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider
You leave a lot of question Mark's dont you? Read the thread and you might get the answers
It wasn't that fecking simple...did you see where you posted it?
And yet again the answer is on the thread...which is no.
You have started the most irresponsible thread I have ever read in here. You may as well have just started a thread saying ‘Look at me’
You have no medical knowledge and just want some attention
Give your head a wobble pal
You discuss in such an intelligent fashion"When someone makes a opening statement like that...yeah I've no time for them. | |||
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"I would imagine that the NHS know what they are doing! For certain, they are not actually proactively trying to kill people!!!!! We would hope so as they are changing the way they ventilate patients now...but only now!" They've been ventilating patients face down for a few weeks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/1007831 Thread I posted on earlier
Why haven’t you been made Chief Medical Officer??
Did you write a paper for peer review based on your vast medical knowledge?
I will ask you one simple question - did you have Coronavirus?
Maybe, just maybe you are correct, but if you’re not and someone believes this, the consequences are too awful to consider
You leave a lot of question Mark's dont you? Read the thread and you might get the answers
It wasn't that fecking simple...did you see where you posted it?
And yet again the answer is on the thread...which is no.
You have started the most irresponsible thread I have ever read in here. You may as well have just started a thread saying ‘Look at me’
You have no medical knowledge and just want some attention
Give your head a wobble pal
You discuss in such an intelligent fashion
When someone makes a opening statement like that...yeah I've no time for them."I will reiterate this is the most irresponsible thread I have ever read in here | |||
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"I've trawled the BBC News night site on BBC iplayer and the only stories I can find on ventilators are to do with the lack of them and and how some companies are producing units to meet the demand." As I said I dont have iplayer, but it was on there and also got a mention on today's briefing. | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! " Then if your a NHS worker...you should be up to date on this I would have thought... | |||
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"Don't teach your grandma to suck eggs ??" Na granny's been good | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Then if your a NHS worker...you should be up to date on this I would have thought..." Yes 100% up to date as it’s my field | |||
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"Plus I'm only a expert in own experience but I hope they are not giving any morphine to these patients " In the army we were told not to give morphine to anyone with chest/breathing injury or problems so i guess not as a rule. | |||
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"I would imagine that the NHS know what they are doing! For certain, they are not actually proactively trying to kill people!!!!! We would hope so as they are changing the way they ventilate patients now...but only now! They've been ventilating patients face down for a few weeks" No in the fact that they are using CPAP as the first option unless the patient arrives unconscious. | |||
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"There is some evidence from US that using O2 either through nasal cannula or cpap has had positive incomes with o2 sats dramatically improving." You are correct | |||
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"Yes.american society have found using CPAP rather than ventilators has increased survival rate by up to 20% if I remember right (am at work and haven’t got the paper to hand) Nasal spec has also shown to be bette rand also reduce chance of aersolising COVID,thus reducing the need for FFP3 Attire" Now a positive post like that I love  | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Well said !!! I was tempted to reply but my blood was simply boiling ..... you have to be part of the nhs to appreciate exactly what goes on behind closed doors as opposed to the over spilling of people’s vivid imaginations. Then if your a NHS worker...you should be up to date on this I would have thought..." | |||
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"Plus I'm only a expert in own experience but I hope they are not giving any morphine to these patients In the army we were told not to give morphine to anyone with chest/breathing injury or problems so i guess not as a rule. " Yet they had me on it with double pneumonia...so yeah I think we need to question them. | |||
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Chorleyguy | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Then if your a NHS worker...you should be up to date on this I would have thought... Yes 100% up to date as it’s my field "Thanks for what your doing.. | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! " Knowledge
Keep up the hard work. Much appreciated. | |||
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"Mention the bloody daily mail and dont expect a bloody reply...I dont even read it...I'll repeat it Was the only link to this I could find ffs" And doesn't that tell you something? | |||
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"chorley can i say bloody good job you and all NHS staff are doing " I don’t know you Chorley, but I do know you’re pretty bloody amazing | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Well said !!! I was tempted to reply but my blood was simply boiling ..... you have to be part of the nhs to appreciate exactly what goes on behind closed doors as opposed to the over spilling of people’s vivid imaginations. Then if your a NHS worker...you should be up to date on this I would have thought..." Another who hide his reply in the previous message ffs Hey I love the nhs ..but questioning a top thoracic doctor in icu more then likely saved my life... | |||
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"chorley can i say bloody good job you and all NHS staff are doing " So would I. | |||
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"Mention the bloody daily mail and dont expect a bloody reply...I dont even read it...I'll repeat it Was the only link to this I could find ffs" Does that not tell you something? If you have issues about how your pneumonia was treated then speak to PALS and ask questions about how and why decisions were made for you That would be much more effective than assuming that doctors all over the world are somehow negligently getting it wrong in the midst of a pandemic There are some doctors coming out to say that we’re actually not venting people early enough, that it should be done before the lung damage - I’ll bet any money that’s in the Daily Mail at some point in the next couple of weeks. That’s what they do; their only ambition is to be the first to report it. Doesn’t matter how accurate it is or how good their source is. Better to be wrong than second. | |||
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"Agreed daily mail isn’t the best source, I’ll try and find the other ones I have somewhere It’s a difficult position the doctors are put in and I’m not sure what I can say without dropping a ball as to what I do and where I work,but the guidelines for us are ventilator is ONLY as a last resort when o2 in not working,CPAP is non effective etc etc.inless a patient is already brought in by a crew in arrest then we go down the airway management tree....feel free to pm me and once I am comfortable I’ll let you know who I am
Chorleyguy " | |||
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"Mention the bloody daily mail and dont expect a bloody reply...I dont even read it...I'll repeat it Was the only link to this I could find ffs And doesn't that tell you something?" Yeah I refuse to use google and duckduckgo is shite | |||
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"Agreed daily mail isn’t the best source, I’ll try and find the other ones I have somewhere It’s a difficult position the doctors are put in and I’m not sure what I can say without dropping a ball as to what I do and where I work,but the guidelines for us are ventilator is ONLY as a last resort when o2 in not working,CPAP is non effective etc etc.inless a patient is already brought in by a crew in arrest then we go down the airway management tree....feel free to pm me and once I am comfortable I’ll let you know who I am
Chorleyguy "Ah maybe that wasn't meant for me as I couldn't send one.. | |||
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"Agreed daily mail isn’t the best source, I’ll try and find the other ones I have somewhere It’s a difficult position the doctors are put in and I’m not sure what I can say without dropping a ball as to what I do and where I work,but the guidelines for us are ventilator is ONLY as a last resort when o2 in not working,CPAP is non effective etc etc.inless a patient is already brought in by a crew in arrest then we go down the airway management tree....feel free to pm me and once I am comfortable I’ll let you know who I am
Chorleyguy "What is your response when a patient is not responding to alternative treatment and questions being ventilated, or refuses to be ventilated ? | |||
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"Fair play, although very much confused and having no respect for medical experts the TV/TS certainly stayed with the thread! "Hey I have the utmost respect for them as with a little help from me they saved my life
But if you get nothing else from this thread...please just question things.
It does no harm | |||
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"Is that what this thread has been about? That CPAP therapy is proving quite successful? I could've told you that. That's a far cry from the opening gambit of ventilators are killing folk though." Ah I got the fecking title from that fecking daily mail link.ffs | |||
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"So what you're saying is people should reject the opinion of highly trained medical professionals in favour of someone on a swingers forum, because your opinion is much more informed than theirs? This is possibly the most dangerous post I've seen on this forum. Yes, medicine advances, especially when it's under stress, great advances in emergency medicine where made during both wars. Lessons will be learned now and treatment will advance, but to suggest that medical professionals are killing people is frankly idiotic" Yeah ok you didn't mention the daily mail | |||
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"So what you're saying is people should reject the opinion of highly trained medical professionals in favour of someone on a swingers forum, because your opinion is much more informed than theirs? This is possibly the most dangerous post I've seen on this forum. Yes, medicine advances, especially when it's under stress, great advances in emergency medicine where made during both wars. Lessons will be learned now and treatment will advance, but to suggest that medical professionals are killing people is frankly idiotic Yeah ok you didn't mention the daily mail "The Daily Mail?? Its a rag!! It's been banned as a reliable source for citations on Wikipedia ffs | |||
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"They have always said ventilators are a very brutal form of treatment and they do cause some damage to the patient by the very nature of inserting a tube so far into the Airway. Sometimes aggressive treatments are needed in an emergency situation and it can go ether way
"Does chemo and radiotherapy almost kill you, before it heals you? I am happily not experienced with either treatment. | |||
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"They have always said ventilators are a very brutal form of treatment and they do cause some damage to the patient by the very nature of inserting a tube so far into the Airway. Sometimes aggressive treatments are needed in an emergency situation and it can go ether way
Does chemo and radiotherapy almost kill you, before it heals you?
I am happily not experienced with either treatment."Same here thank feck...so I cant answer that one | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Then if your a NHS worker...you should be up to date on this I would have thought... Yes 100% up to date as it’s my field "Well handled on the condescending reply Chorleyguy. I certainly trust your judgement, experience and knowledge far more than the OPs. Keep up the good work, we are all grateful | |||
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" Does chemo and radiotherapy almost kill you, before it heals you? I am happily not experienced with either treatment." I wouldn't say it almost kills you; more that it poisons you It kills individual cells. Cancer cells are more easily damaged which is why (when it works) it can kill off cancer cells without killing people | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Then if your a NHS worker...you should be up to date on this I would have thought... Yes 100% up to date as it’s my field
Well handled on the condescending reply Chorleyguy. I certainly trust your judgement, experience and knowledge far more than the OPs.
Keep up the good work, we are all grateful "Thank you for an honest and accurate response. This is war Us vs Covid-19 and in a war, time is one option, that is not available. If it was me on the way to intensive care, I would be more than willing to try everything in your arsenal, to stay alive. | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! " Who knew that the people looking after those on a ventilator knew what they were doing. After 23 years of looking after ventilated patients I just had to come to fab for someone to tell me what to do. Who fucking knew. So I’ll be collecting the OP on the way to work tomorrow night to come and lead the decision making in my shift. Let’s just hope they are fit tested and know the appropriate way to don and doff PPE and they know how to interpret some ABG’s. And teach us the benefits of nursing prone vs supine. I’m looking for smacking my forehead emoji right now... | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Who knew that the people looking after those on a ventilator knew what they were doing. After 23 years of looking after ventilated patients I just had to come to fab for someone to tell me what to do. Who fucking knew. So I’ll be collecting the OP on the way to work tomorrow night to come and lead the decision making in my shift. Let’s just hope they are fit tested and know the appropriate way to don and doff PPE and they know how to interpret some ABG’s. And teach us the benefits of nursing prone vs supine. I’m looking for smacking my forehead emoji right now... " Did you not know? Everyone's a fucking expert now.. Thank you for your professionalism, dedication and courage Jas and Lu x | |||
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"I think an excellent way to avoid a lack of ventillators would be to stop all Daily Fail readers from using them. The world would then at least end up a little less xenophobic and bigoted" thats a loveky thought to have let ppl die because they read a paper u dobt like.think id rather tlk to a mail reader than someone who wishes death on peeps un fucking belivable | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Who knew that the people looking after those on a ventilator knew what they were doing. After 23 years of looking after ventilated patients I just had to come to fab for someone to tell me what to do. Who fucking knew. So I’ll be collecting the OP on the way to work tomorrow night to come and lead the decision making in my shift. Let’s just hope they are fit tested and know the appropriate way to don and doff PPE and they know how to interpret some ABG’s. And teach us the benefits of nursing prone vs supine. I’m looking for smacking my forehead emoji right now... " Hey I'll pass on that one as even if you are what you say you are...you just seem far to angry to be looking after patients...and I live way too far for you to travel... | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Who knew that the people looking after those on a ventilator knew what they were doing. After 23 years of looking after ventilated patients I just had to come to fab for someone to tell me what to do. Who fucking knew. So I’ll be collecting the OP on the way to work tomorrow night to come and lead the decision making in my shift. Let’s just hope they are fit tested and know the appropriate way to don and doff PPE and they know how to interpret some ABG’s. And teach us the benefits of nursing prone vs supine. I’m looking for smacking my forehead emoji right now... Did you not know? Everyone's a fucking expert now.. Thank you for your professionalism, dedication and courage Jas and Lu x" Wher did I say I was a expert... | |||
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"I think an excellent way to avoid a lack of ventillators would be to stop all Daily Fail readers from using them. The world would then at least end up a little less xenophobic and bigotedthats a loveky thought to have let ppl die because they read a paper u dobt like.think id rather tlk to a mail reader than someone who wishes death on peeps un fucking belivable" The best about it mate...I said countless times on this thread that I dont even read the mail..they read what they want to read | |||
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"Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Who knew that the people looking after those on a ventilator knew what they were doing. After 23 years of looking after ventilated patients I just had to come to fab for someone to tell me what to do. Who fucking knew. So I’ll be collecting the OP on the way to work tomorrow night to come and lead the decision making in my shift. Let’s just hope they are fit tested and know the appropriate way to don and doff PPE and they know how to interpret some ABG’s. And teach us the benefits of nursing prone vs supine. I’m looking for smacking my forehead emoji right now... Hey I'll pass on that one as even if you are what you say you are...you just seem far to angry to be looking after patients...and I live way too far for you to travel..." Oh no not angry, that’s your deflection on this. I’m perplexed at your attitude. And no where is too far to travel for someone who has your decision making skills. | |||
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" Can I add my 2 penny’s? So what your saying is that,as you didn’t go on a ventilator,NO ONE should? When the decision is made it isn’t made lightly trust me.... It’s a team effort of; The consultant,the respiratory team,the team in either resus/COVID team plus others It’s a LAST resort and the decision isn’t taken lightly,as we well know the chances are 50.15% you will survive (depends which research you read, resus council/royal thoracic society etc) We are also using rotational positioning every 12-16hours (depends where you work) plus a combo of ; Clarythromycin Doxycycline Glycopyronium Plus a few other meds This is to try and treat the pneumonia style symptoms accompanying COVID. We are doing our best to try and manage this....if you think you can do better please go ahead and try....if you think whatever qualifications you have (nursing/doctorate/masters etc) replace the years of combined experience then that is up to you... P.s we aren’t just using ventilators,we are using other ways of ventilating that are not as invasive And yes I am an NHS professional and damn proud of the job we are doing! Who knew that the people looking after those on a ventilator knew what they were doing. After 23 years of looking after ventilated patients I just had to come to fab for someone to tell me what to do. Who fucking knew. So I’ll be collecting the OP on the way to work tomorrow night to come and lead the decision making in my shift. Let’s just hope they are fit tested and know the appropriate way to don and doff PPE and they know how to interpret some ABG’s. And teach us the benefits of nursing prone vs supine. I’m looking for smacking my forehead emoji right now... Hey I'll pass on that one as even if you are what you say you are...you just seem far to angry to be looking after patients...and I live way too far for you to travel..." Oh no not angry, that’s your deflection on this. I’m perplexed at your attitude. And no where is too far to travel for someone who has your decision " You obviously did not read the thread properly as I never said I was a expert. .I give my own experience of being in ICU and the latest news that ventilators are far from being the first option for a patient. You just chose to read it the way you wanted and jumped on your high horse. | |||
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