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Self Emplyed Bitching some still working
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"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. " I’ve got a builder mate whose been well and truly fucked over (by himself) He is trying to keep working on the sly but keeps getting stopped. Did I hear some loopholes are going to get tightened up? | |||
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"Do you realise how difficult it is to access the funding, which has to be paid back. At the moment most self employed people are earning zero "It is the same for everyone! The 80% DOES NOT have to be paid back! Do you know how difficult it is for the Government to set up this up? It is a mammoth task. It may be June before people see this money, but I think that the Government should be commended for doing this. | |||
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"I've been kept informed by email at every step. Applied for, and got my SBRR grant within a week. Most self employed know the rules that apply to them. It's good that the "cash in hand cowboys" get shafted now. " Your grant money has physically been paid to you already ? Was it in the form of a direct payment into your business account ? I’ve applied for all of mine but as of yet none of them have been paid to me | |||
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"Do you realise how difficult it is to access the funding, which has to be paid back. At the moment most self employed people are earning zero
It is the same for everyone!
The 80% DOES NOT have to be paid back!
Do you know how difficult it is for the Government to set up this up? It is a mammoth task.
It may be June before people see this money, but I think that the Government should be commended for doing this. "Yes and I realise its difficult for the government. As for not having to repay, depending on the business model, its not always possible. Organisations that take money for next year in advance could end up with no income next year. | |||
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"Do you realise how difficult it is to access the funding, which has to be paid back. At the moment most self employed people are earning zero
It is the same for everyone!
The 80% DOES NOT have to be paid back!
Do you know how difficult it is for the Government to set up this up? It is a mammoth task.
It may be June before people see this money, but I think that the Government should be commended for doing this.
Yes and I realise its difficult for the government. As for not having to repay, depending on the business model, its not always possible. Organisations that take money for next year in advance could end up with no income next year. "Your comment makes no sense what so ever | |||
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I don't want free money from anyone if I can possibley help it, save it for the peeps who really need help
Unfortunatley there will be some who will work the system but that happens all the time anyway  | |||
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"I've been kept informed by email at every step. Applied for, and got my SBRR grant within a week. Most self employed know the rules that apply to them. It's good that the "cash in hand cowboys" get shafted now. Your grant money has physically been paid to you already ? Was it in the form of a direct payment into your business account ? I’ve applied for all of mine but as of yet none of them have been paid to me " Yes, the local council started paying out from April 1st, as soon as they got the funds from Goverment. Excellent website and easy to follow links and application process. | |||
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"I've been kept informed by email at every step. Applied for, and got my SBRR grant within a week. Most self employed know the rules that apply to them. It's good that the "cash in hand cowboys" get shafted now. Your grant money has physically been paid to you already ? Was it in the form of a direct payment into your business account ? I’ve applied for all of mine but as of yet none of them have been paid to me Yes, the local council started paying out from April 1st, as soon as they got the funds from Goverment. Excellent website and easy to follow links and application process. " Your council are obviously processing claims quicker than ours. Hopefully will see some movement next week | |||
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"Im self employed and glad to still be working as classed as essential
I don't want free money from anyone if I can possibley help it, save it for the peeps who really need help
Unfortunatley there will be some who will work the system but that happens all the time anyway "If you had not been classed as essential would you still be working ? | |||
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"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. Not been trading a year so I get fucked over. It’s always nice to sneer at people when you’re not on the receiving end " | |||
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"Do you realise how difficult it is to access the funding, which has to be paid back. At the moment most self employed people are earning zero
It is the same for everyone!
The 80% DOES NOT have to be paid back!
Do you know how difficult it is for the Government to set up this up? It is a mammoth task.
It may be June before people see this money, but I think that the Government should be commended for doing this.
Yes and I realise its difficult for the government. As for not having to repay, depending on the business model, its not always possible. Organisations that take money for next year in advance could end up with no income next year.
Your comment makes no sense what so ever "OK. I'll keep it simple. 1. Repay monies for services planned for the next academic year starting Sept. Will probably close business. | |||
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"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. " Not been trading a year so I get fucked over. It’s always easy to sneer at people when you’re not on the receiving end | |||
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"I've been kept informed by email at every step. Applied for, and got my SBRR grant within a week. Most self employed know the rules that apply to them. It's good that the "cash in hand cowboys" get shafted now. Your grant money has physically been paid to you already ? Was it in the form of a direct payment into your business account ? I’ve applied for all of mine but as of yet none of them have been paid to me Yes, the local council started paying out from April 1st, as soon as they got the funds from Goverment. Excellent website and easy to follow links and application process. Your council are obviously processing claims quicker than ours. Hopefully will see some movement next week " I've since had a detailed email from HMRC, saying what information I should have to hand, when the furlough applications start in the near future. | |||
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"Im self employed and glad to still be working as classed as essential
I don't want free money from anyone if I can possibley help it, save it for the peeps who really need help
Unfortunatley there will be some who will work the system but that happens all the time anyway
If you had not been classed as essential would you still be working ?"If I could I would be as i have always done. If my work had dried up then I would have found something else to make a living. As it is I'm flat out during the week every week and I stay way from as many people as possible at the moment hoping that I don't get sick
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" Yes, the local council started paying out from April 1st, as soon as they got the funds from Goverment. Excellent website and easy to follow links and application process. Your council are obviously processing claims quicker than ours. Hopefully will see some movement next week " He is talking about something entirely different! The Portal for reclaiming 80% of salary lost due to COVID-19 has not been setup yet and won't be until towards the end of this month. | |||
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" Yes, the local council started paying out from April 1st, as soon as they got the funds from Goverment. Excellent website and easy to follow links and application process. Your council are obviously processing claims quicker than ours. Hopefully will see some movement next week He is talking about something entirely different! The Portal for reclaiming 80% of salary lost due to COVID-19 has not been setup yet and won't be until towards the end of this month." No I believe we were both discussing the grant money being paid by the local councils. Not the job retention scheme payments system | |||
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" No I believe we were both discussing the grant money being paid by the local councils. Not the job retention scheme payments system " Ah Gotcha, believe that is well set up here as well. The Government should be commended for their actions on all of this - a massive task. | |||
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" No I believe we were both discussing the grant money being paid by the local councils. Not the job retention scheme payments system Ah Gotcha, believe that is well set up here as well. The Government should be commended for their actions on all of this - a massive task." Yes it’s been set up and they’ve dispatched letters to relevant companies but I, as yet, have not received the 3 grants I’m waiting for so I was asking Mercury as he says he has received his | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys "HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing. People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done. | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done."Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc. | |||
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"Do you realise how difficult it is to access the funding, which has to be paid back. At the moment most self employed people are earning zero
It is the same for everyone!
The 80% DOES NOT have to be paid back!
Do you know how difficult it is for the Government to set up this up? It is a mammoth task.
It may be June before people see this money, but I think that the Government should be commended for doing this.
The Jewish money will flow a lot sooner than that. Prepped and ready to go."Can you explain further? | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc."A lot of LLCs are going to go under, we are going to have a flood of unemployed looking for work and employers looking to scale down for the recession. As a result those directors who were paying CT, divided tax and earning VAT will be on universal credit. I fail to understand how this helps the economy. | |||
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"Really do feel for the self employed guys etc that have declared everything and now being tarred with the same brush as the cash in hand lot. I know a few that thought it best to not declare some jobs and now they’ve shot themselves in the foot. " Add insurance, public liability, training costs etc on top of overheads all to comply legit. Cowboy customers fund cowboy builders but that's no help to the reputable ones | |||
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" Self Emplyed Bitching some still working" We're self- employed. We're not bitching We're still working (because we're allowed to) Would like to know why you have such hate in you OP? | |||
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"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. " Your the one bitching and you know nothing about self employment | |||
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"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. I’ve got a builder mate whose been well and truly fucked over (by himself) He is trying to keep working on the sly but keeps getting stopped. Did I hear some loopholes are going to get tightened up? " Why is he being stopped and buy who? As far as I'm aware you are still allowed to work. | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc."You made the choice to be self employed !! | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc."Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits. | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits."I agree! Best thing I ever did! You take the rough with the smooth. Ok some of us are finding it really hard right now and worrying, but it's out of our control and a lot of us will adapt, adjust and carry on. It may not be the business we are in now, but most self employed people are entrepreneurial and will find a way to be successful in our 'new world' lol | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
I agree! Best thing I ever did! You take the rough with the smooth. Ok some of us are finding it really hard right now and worrying, but it's out of our control and a lot of us will adapt, adjust and carry on. It may not be the business we are in now, but most self employed people are entrepreneurial and will find a way to be successful in our 'new world' lol "Funeral director? | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits."We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not. | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not."You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair? | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not."You really believed that ??? | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits." | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?"https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/ Bleating? Wow! When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being. Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin? I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever. By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you. | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
"Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about. | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about."Oh condescension. That's very big of you! Well done You sure know how to argue a point! What a man | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about.
Oh condescension. That's very big of you! Well done You sure know how to argue a point! What a man "Oh cheer up ... heavens sake | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about.
Oh condescension. That's very big of you! Well done You sure know how to argue a point! What a man "Where’s the condescension? Again I’m stating fact. It’s a bit rich you accusing anyone of not being able to argue a point, as soon as you you are proved wrong you resort to false accusations and trying to belittle the other posters. Basically you’re all piss and wind! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about.
Oh condescension. That's very big of you! Well done You sure know how to argue a point! What a man
Oh cheer up ... heavens sake "Oh don't worry I'm happy as long as I'm working and I have my hands full both volunteering and getting work done. I do however spare a thought for those who don't know how they are going to pay their expenses. It must be a stressful time for them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about.
Oh condescension. That's very big of you! Well done You sure know how to argue a point! What a man
Where’s the condescension? Again I’m stating fact. It’s a bit rich you accusing anyone of not being able to argue a point, as soon as you you are proved wrong you resort to false accusations and trying to belittle the other posters. Basically you’re all piss and wind!"I'll take that from whence it comes. oloo | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about.
Oh condescension. That's very big of you! Well done You sure know how to argue a point! What a man
Where’s the condescension? Again I’m stating fact. It’s a bit rich you accusing anyone of not being able to argue a point, as soon as you you are proved wrong you resort to false accusations and trying to belittle the other posters. Basically you’re all piss and wind!"From where I'm standing, your post is a bit rich... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves."Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about.
Oh condescension. That's very big of you! Well done You sure know how to argue a point! What a man
Where’s the condescension? Again I’m stating fact. It’s a bit rich you accusing anyone of not being able to argue a point, as soon as you you are proved wrong you resort to false accusations and trying to belittle the other posters. Basically you’re all piss and wind!
From where I'm standing, your post is a bit rich...
"Maybe you should move then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done.
Exactly. Those in PAYE jobs will never understand the uncertainty of being SE, the lack of protection, no holiday pay, no sick pay, clients not paying or demanding a discount after a job is done at an agreed price. Plus all the paperwork for HMRC, having to pay payment on account etc.
Not to sound harsh or anything, but you chose to be self-employed and that comes with it's own benefits.
We also chose to declare our earnings, pay our fair share with the understanding that we are citizens of the United Kingdom. But now it seems in our hour of need we are not amongst those whom the chancellor will stand behind. He said he promised to stand behind each and every one of us........ apparently not.
You’re still bleating on about this? You can furlough the PAYE element of your salary, just as someone that is employed can. So what’s not fair?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/the-self-employed-people-struggling-to-survive-225503/
Bleating? Wow!
When Boris was ill those who had harsh words for him were castigated for having such wishes toward another human being.
Now here you are laughing at people who face being financial ruin?
I guess that pretty much proves my point. We don't all stand together. The jealous and spiteful are more jealous and spiteful than ever.
By the way. I'm not bleating. I'm doing fine. But I feel compassion for others, a concept that is clearly beyond you.
Im not laughing at anyone, I’m simply stating fact. You proved on the other self employed thread that you had no idea of what you were talking about.
Oh condescension. That's very big of you! Well done You sure know how to argue a point! What a man
Where’s the condescension? Again I’m stating fact. It’s a bit rich you accusing anyone of not being able to argue a point, as soon as you you are proved wrong you resort to false accusations and trying to belittle the other posters. Basically you’re all piss and wind!
From where I'm standing, your post is a bit rich...
Maybe you should move then?"why would I miss watching you prove him right with every post you make? I enjoy a good laugh. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?"I'm not claiming to be noble. Businesses are not charities. I am defending those who have the courage to strike out on their own and are damned when the risk they took reaps rewards. The point I make is the point I still standby. If dividends are not income they should not be taxed. If they are income then there should be support when that income is taken away by government policy. The peanut gallery can throw rotten tomatoes all they want. It just proves their mentality. There are financial experts who are writing articles about the unfairness of the chancellors support for small businesses. Are they piss and wind who don't know what they are talking about? I come to the table with links to articles, quotes etc. The people who "proved me wrong" did nothing but pile on derision. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point? "Do you know how VAT works? If they’re a one man Ltd company then they won’t employ anyone and the company that an employee works for will pay business rates too, probably a lot more. What’s your point? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point? "In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you. In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Im self employed and glad to still be working as classed as essential
I don't want free money from anyone if I can possibley help it, save it for the peeps who really need help
Unfortunatley there will be some who will work the system but that happens all the time anyway
If you had not been classed as essential would you still be working ?"I’m not essential and I’m still working. I’m not claiming anything either | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
Do you know how VAT works? If they’re a one man Ltd company then they won’t employ anyone and the company that an employee works for will pay business rates too, probably a lot more. What’s your point? "Do YOU know how VAT works? I charge my customers VAT at 20% but then pay the government a fixed flat rate of 16.5% on what I charge PLUS VAT which means I pay VAT on VAT. By the end of that I am nothing but a tax collector for HMRC for which I have to employ an accountant and am forced to register for digital submission, all at my own cost. That is money I generated for the government coffers from the sweat of my own brow. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
Do you know how VAT works? If they’re a one man Ltd company then they won’t employ anyone and the company that an employee works for will pay business rates too, probably a lot more. What’s your point? "Yes, I do know how vat works. Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs? Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
"What is the average salary in the UK? What does the average person pay in tax per annum? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
Do you know how VAT works? If they’re a one man Ltd company then they won’t employ anyone and the company that an employee works for will pay business rates too, probably a lot more. What’s your point?
Do YOU know how VAT works? I charge my customers VAT at 20% but then pay the government a fixed flat rate of 16.5% on what I charge PLUS VAT which means I pay VAT on VAT. By the end of that I am nothing but a tax collector for HMRC for which I have to employ an accountant and am forced to register for digital submission, all at my own cost.
That is money I generated for the government coffers from the sweat of my own brow."I think you need a word with your accountant. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
"Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
What is the average salary in the UK? What does the average person pay in tax per annum?"What’s the relevance of that? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
"No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
Do you know how VAT works? If they’re a one man Ltd company then they won’t employ anyone and the company that an employee works for will pay business rates too, probably a lot more. What’s your point?
Do YOU know how VAT works? I charge my customers VAT at 20% but then pay the government a fixed flat rate of 16.5% on what I charge PLUS VAT which means I pay VAT on VAT. By the end of that I am nothing but a tax collector for HMRC for which I have to employ an accountant and am forced to register for digital submission, all at my own cost.
That is money I generated for the government coffers from the sweat of my own brow.
I think you need a word with your accountant. "Thanks. Very useful.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said"You mean re-read this bit? "I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
"That’s a fact! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said"Then what is your argument? That even though they contribute more they should get less back? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact! "So they pay less but don't contribute less? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact! "It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
So they pay less but don't contribute less?"Depends as to what you mean by contribute. If you’re talking about the contribution to the exchequer that contribute and pay will be mean exactly the same thing, ie less | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
"What is the full story? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
So they pay less but don't contribute less?
Depends as to what you mean by contribute. If you’re talking about the contribution to the exchequer that contribute and pay will be mean exactly the same thing, ie less"Can you repeat that for me again in English please? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
"Furthermore, back to your point about denying that contributions/jealousy is your motivation. Thanks for proving it yet again. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
So they pay less but don't contribute less?
Depends as to what you mean by contribute. If you’re talking about the contribution to the exchequer that contribute and pay will be mean exactly the same thing, ie less
Can you repeat that for me again in English please?"Apologies for the typo, the ‘that’ before the second contribute should read then. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story? "Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
Furthermore, back to your point about denying that contributions/jealousy is your motivation.
Thanks for proving it yet again."Again total crap! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored."And if you knew what you where talking about, you wouldn't need to be told.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored."No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
And if you knew what you where talking about, you wouldn't need to be told...." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
Furthermore, back to your point about denying that contributions/jealousy is your motivation.
Thanks for proving it yet again.
Again total crap!"Why's that then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you "Cost of living increases are a fact of life. I’m not going to lose any sleep | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you "I think your customers will mind if their consumers stop buying from them and go somewhere else cheaper | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you
I think your customers will mind if their consumers stop buying from them and go somewhere else cheaper"Who is going to be cheaper? The other customers will be paying for guys like me and will have to raise their prices too. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you
Cost of living increases are a fact of life. I’m not going to lose any sleep"There you go. Happy ending. The chancellor will get more. My customers will get more. I will get more and the only loser is the man on the street. The same guy who thought he would make his circumstances better by raising my taxes but instead made his own worse. Of course you won't lose sleep. Why should you care about the plight of others? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is"So you can ignore it, again? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you
I think your customers will mind if their consumers stop buying from them and go somewhere else cheaper
Who is going to be cheaper? The other customers will be paying for guys like me and will have to raise their prices too."Well the sensible supplier doesn’t presume what they expect their competitor to do. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?"Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you
I think your customers will mind if their consumers stop buying from them and go somewhere else cheaper"I’d just stop buying from you go else where that’s cheaper .... fact | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you
I think your customers will mind if their consumers stop buying from them and go somewhere else cheaper
Who is going to be cheaper? The other customers will be paying for guys like me and will have to raise their prices too.
Well the sensible supplier doesn’t presume what they expect their competitor to do."My competitors also had their taxes raised. They can either increase their rates or reduce their profits. They didn't go into business to reduce profits. I've never once had a customer bat an eyelid when I increase my rate as a result of taxes. It's expected. We keep facing new taxes. The flat rate VAT scheme is hardly worth it. Dividend tax has been imposed where it never existed before.... every time the same thing happens. It gets passed on to the consumer. Despite all these new taxes can you say that the man on the street any better off? Have our public services improved? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Boys, your having an argument about business etc on a swinging website chat forum. It’s petty and your better than this (I hope). Why don’t u ALL be the better man and not post anymore about it ? Let’s all go look at some photos of lovely tits, whos with me ?" It’s gone a bit sordid almost gloating over charging the consumer more. Class. I think Tits are a very good idea.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring."Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted. "And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. " "In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus." And from another post - " Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs? Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Boys, your having an argument about business etc on a swinging website chat forum. It’s petty and your better than this (I hope). Why don’t u ALL be the better man and not post anymore about it ? Let’s all go look at some photos of lovely tits, whos with me ?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Boys, your having an argument about business etc on a swinging website chat forum. It’s petty and your better than this (I hope). Why don’t u ALL be the better man and not post anymore about it ? Let’s all go look at some photos of lovely tits, whos with me ? It’s gone a bit sordid almost gloating over charging the consumer more. Class. I think Tits are a very good idea. "It got sordid when people said tough shit, you chose to be self employed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you
I think your customers will mind if their consumers stop buying from them and go somewhere else cheaper
Who is going to be cheaper? The other customers will be paying for guys like me and will have to raise their prices too.
Well the sensible supplier doesn’t presume what they expect their competitor to do.
My competitors also had their taxes raised. They can either increase their rates or reduce their profits. They didn't go into business to reduce profits.
I've never once had a customer bat an eyelid when I increase my rate as a result of taxes. It's expected.
We keep facing new taxes. The flat rate VAT scheme is hardly worth it. Dividend tax has been imposed where it never existed before.... every time the same thing happens. It gets passed on to the consumer.
Despite all these new taxes can you say that the man on the street any better off? Have our public services improved?"Good luck with all of that, I’m off to look at tits | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"By the way, they can raise taxes all they like. When my taxes go up they go up for everyone. That means I can afford to raise my quotes to my customers knowing that my competition will be doing the same. My customers don't mind because they pass those costs onto the consumers. And that's you
I think your customers will mind if their consumers stop buying from them and go somewhere else cheaper
I’d just stop buying from you go else where that’s cheaper .... fact "Nowhere else is cheaper. Because tax won't just go up for me. It goes up for everyone. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Boys, your having an argument about business etc on a swinging website chat forum. It’s petty and your better than this (I hope). Why don’t u ALL be the better man and not post anymore about it ? Let’s all go look at some photos of lovely tits, whos with me ?" Why is it petty? And why should we not discuss it on a forum that has discussions about things like employment, politics, current affairs? I'm all for looking at tits but it's not all I care about. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc.""I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise. As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily. They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Boys, your having an argument about business etc on a swinging website chat forum. It’s petty and your better than this (I hope). Why don’t u ALL be the better man and not post anymore about it ? Let’s all go look at some photos of lovely tits, whos with me ? Why is it petty? And why should we not discuss it on a forum that has discussions about things like employment, politics, current affairs? I'm all for looking at tits but it's not all I care about." Yeah I'm kind of baffled too. Yes it's a swinging site, but swinging is forbidden. Even during normal times this forum dicussed everything from cooking recipes to politics. I've certainly learned a lot on this forum. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. Not been trading a year so I get fucked over. It’s always easy to sneer at people when you’re not on the receiving end " Guilty of bad timing? This loophole needs closing. Maybe someone should badger Martin Lewis to change it to 6 months, as he has so much clout these days. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Self Emplyed Bitching some still working We're self- employed. We're not bitching We're still working (because we're allowed to) Would like to know why you have such hate in you OP? " Well said | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
"You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it. As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances. No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There's 'Cash In Hand jobs'? I'm going for a career change "Blimey! When I think of all the money I’ve let slip through my fingers over the years...... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
"Although there is a class of people who left their positions of employment only to return the next day as contractors (the ones IR35 was originally aimed at), there are also those who are part of a legitimate and vital flexible workforce. I did not become a contractor to pay less tax. I became a contractor because my income is determined by supply and demand and the value of my skills. As such I earn at least four times what I did as an employee. I now pay far more in tax than I did as an employee. However I would be far better off as an employee right now should I personally be needing a bailout. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I don't get the hate for those who operate as a Ltd company and pay themselves as a director a small salary and the rest in dividends. I operate in this manner and it's all legal and above board in line with the Government legislation. I pay the taxes I have to, corporation tax, VAT etc. I'm not dodging anything. If those in here who are moaning set up as Ltd company you're telling me you wouldn't operate in the most tax efficient legal way possible? " Totally agree. And let's not forget that we have to fund our own pensions, training, travel, equipment, sick pay etc out of the income we get, unlike those in permanent employment. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I don't get the hate for those who operate as a Ltd company and pay themselves as a director a small salary and the rest in dividends. I operate in this manner and it's all legal and above board in line with the Government legislation. I pay the taxes I have to, corporation tax, VAT etc. I'm not dodging anything. If those in here who are moaning set up as Ltd company you're telling me you wouldn't operate in the most tax efficient legal way possible? " They just see people getting something they aren't without seeing what you bring to the table that employees dont. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that."You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times. I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written. All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget. And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are. | |||
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"I believe very few self employed people like myself will receive little or nothing why have they not closed building sites or stopped the smaller trades many of whom may I point out have paid our dues 35 years in my case. Why.... Because they want us to keep working so they don't have to pay us the 80%. Even if we are forced to stop working I can't see it being more than a few weeks. I wouldn't be surprised to see builders suppliers reopened because supplies are the only thing stopping work " Did you follow the IR35 debacle? Thousands of IT contractors working for banks and companies such as GSK were released even though they fell legitimately outside IR35. The single director LLC is the low hanging fruit of tax collecting. Once they are gone HMRC will have to find a new source of oncome. That will have to be either the lower income groups or the megga income earners (aka Boris Johnson's City Backers). I wonder who he will choose.....  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I don't get the hate for those who operate as a Ltd company and pay themselves as a director a small salary and the rest in dividends. I operate in this manner and it's all legal and above board in line with the Government legislation. I pay the taxes I have to, corporation tax, VAT etc. I'm not dodging anything. If those in here who are moaning set up as Ltd company you're telling me you wouldn't operate in the most tax efficient legal way possible? Totally agree. And let's not forget that we have to fund our own pensions, training, travel, equipment, sick pay etc out of the income we get, unlike those in permanent employment. " Well you wanted to be self employed ......!!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are."Let's get this right. You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee. The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business. So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are."What's all this "claims to be in"? Are you calling me a liar? You keep going on about nobody knowing what anyone else does, don't you think that applies to you? Unlike the plethora of antagonistic new faces who have appeared on fab forums since lockdown boredom set in, I actually swing. People know who I am and what I do for a living. Amongst them, by the way, is my accountant who is also a fab swinger. If you facts let's here them. Innuendo is a weapon for cowards. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I don't get the hate for those who operate as a Ltd company and pay themselves as a director a small salary and the rest in dividends. I operate in this manner and it's all legal and above board in line with the Government legislation. I pay the taxes I have to, corporation tax, VAT etc. I'm not dodging anything. If those in here who are moaning set up as Ltd company you're telling me you wouldn't operate in the most tax efficient legal way possible? Totally agree. And let's not forget that we have to fund our own pensions, training, travel, equipment, sick pay etc out of the income we get, unlike those in permanent employment. Well you wanted to be self employed ......!!!!" So tough? They dont deserve any help because they are self employed? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
What's all this "claims to be in"? Are you calling me a liar? You keep going on about nobody knowing what anyone else does, don't you think that applies to you?
Unlike the plethora of antagonistic new faces who have appeared on fab forums since lockdown boredom set in, I actually swing. People know who I am and what I do for a living. Amongst them, by the way, is my accountant who is also a fab swinger.
If you facts let's here them. Innuendo is a weapon for cowards."I’m not calling anyone a liar, I don’t know you or anything about you. I was answering another poster when I used the word ‘claims’ simply for the fact that I know nothing of you. As for new faces, I’ve been around since the previous site. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
What's all this "claims to be in"? Are you calling me a liar? You keep going on about nobody knowing what anyone else does, don't you think that applies to you?
Unlike the plethora of antagonistic new faces who have appeared on fab forums since lockdown boredom set in, I actually swing. People know who I am and what I do for a living. Amongst them, by the way, is my accountant who is also a fab swinger.
If you facts let's here them. Innuendo is a weapon for cowards.
I’m not calling anyone a liar, I don’t know you or anything about you. I was answering another poster when I used the word ‘claims’ simply for the fact that I know nothing of you.
As for new faces, I’ve been around since the previous site."Saying someone "claims" something implies that it may be untrue. In terms of new faces I wasn't saying you were one of them. I was saying I'm not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
"As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not. It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I wonder how many of those taking the moral high ground over the self employed have had a job done for cash? Had a builder round or a job done on the car and uttered those immortal words " I'm not bothered about a bill, how much for cash?"" This. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. Not been trading a year so I get fucked over. It’s always easy to sneer at people when you’re not on the receiving end " Probably being sneered at by people who've paid for a cash in hand job too. Theres a smell of holier than though hypocrisy running through the thread. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim."No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help. You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont. Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"it’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim." Why is it questionable, try providing some evidence. The gov obviously think it is necessary, appropriate and beneficial to give this concession, afterall, they dint give away money for free... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim."The example where directors of LLCs are also employers is a good one. I used to use another LLC as a subcontractor to help me when my workload became excessive. Even though I currently have work for myself I was unable to confirm future work in this climate. This LLC has now closed it's doors, the director now on benefits. If the government had supported my business I could have guaranteed a basic supply of work. If it had stood behind him he'd still be in business and paying tax in years to come. But I suppose there is an argument to how someone who lives off the government coffers contributes more than someone paying tax... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim.
No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help.
You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont.
Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything.
"Once again, show me where I have said they don’t deserve any help. I’ve merely stated what the actual position is. You really should read exactly what’s written instead of what you believe has been written. There’s a huge difference. With respect to your claim that I’m not answering your questions, I’ve repeatedly asked you to be more specific, tell me what it is that I’m not replying to. How difficult is that to understand. I’m more than happy for anyone reading these posts to make their own minds up as to the relative merits of individuals postings. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. Not been trading a year so I get fucked over. It’s always easy to sneer at people when you’re not on the receiving end Probably being sneered at by people who've paid for a cash in hand job too. Theres a smell of holier than though hypocrisy running through the thread." Not really ?? Where ?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim.
No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help.
You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont.
Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything.
Once again, show me where I have said they don’t deserve any help. I’ve merely stated what the actual position is. You really should read exactly what’s written instead of what you believe has been written. There’s a huge difference.
With respect to your claim that I’m not answering your questions, I’ve repeatedly asked you to be more specific, tell me what it is that I’m not replying to. How difficult is that to understand. I’m more than happy for anyone reading these posts to make their own minds up as to the relative merits of individuals postings."You have stated they pay less tax, on a post talking about if self employed should get any help. You are arguing the points why they shouldn't regardless of if you have specifically stated you think they should of shouldn't. Trying to divert away from answering the post I made with a irrelevant and spurious claim is typical of your argument throughout. The questions I have asked are plenty specific but let's try again. Should someone that gets paid in dividends recieve help and why? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim.
No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help.
You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont.
Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything.
Once again, show me where I have said they don’t deserve any help. I’ve merely stated what the actual position is. You really should read exactly what’s written instead of what you believe has been written. There’s a huge difference.
With respect to your claim that I’m not answering your questions, I’ve repeatedly asked you to be more specific, tell me what it is that I’m not replying to. How difficult is that to understand. I’m more than happy for anyone reading these posts to make their own minds up as to the relative merits of individuals postings.
You have stated they pay less tax, on a post talking about if self employed should get any help. You are arguing the points why they shouldn't regardless of if you have specifically stated you think they should of shouldn't.
Trying to divert away from answering the post I made with a irrelevant and spurious claim is typical of your argument throughout.
The questions I have asked are plenty specific but let's try again.
Should someone that gets paid in dividends recieve help and why?"Well this is the first time you’ve asked this question but my answer would be no. They can furlough their salaries as can employees: | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim.
No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help.
You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont.
Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything.
Once again, show me where I have said they don’t deserve any help. I’ve merely stated what the actual position is. You really should read exactly what’s written instead of what you believe has been written. There’s a huge difference.
With respect to your claim that I’m not answering your questions, I’ve repeatedly asked you to be more specific, tell me what it is that I’m not replying to. How difficult is that to understand. I’m more than happy for anyone reading these posts to make their own minds up as to the relative merits of individuals postings.
You have stated they pay less tax, on a post talking about if self employed should get any help. You are arguing the points why they shouldn't regardless of if you have specifically stated you think they should of shouldn't.
Trying to divert away from answering the post I made with a irrelevant and spurious claim is typical of your argument throughout.
The questions I have asked are plenty specific but let's try again.
Should someone that gets paid in dividends recieve help and why?
Well this is the first time you’ve asked this question but my answer would be no. They can furlough their salaries as can employees: "So despite you trying to claim you weren't arguing against, you actually are. You know that their dividends are their income and will struggle without help but because it is not defined as a salary it's ok that they cant pay their Bill's and feed their children? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim.
No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help.
You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont.
Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything.
Once again, show me where I have said they don’t deserve any help. I’ve merely stated what the actual position is. You really should read exactly what’s written instead of what you believe has been written. There’s a huge difference.
With respect to your claim that I’m not answering your questions, I’ve repeatedly asked you to be more specific, tell me what it is that I’m not replying to. How difficult is that to understand. I’m more than happy for anyone reading these posts to make their own minds up as to the relative merits of individuals postings.
You have stated they pay less tax, on a post talking about if self employed should get any help. You are arguing the points why they shouldn't regardless of if you have specifically stated you think they should of shouldn't.
Trying to divert away from answering the post I made with a irrelevant and spurious claim is typical of your argument throughout.
The questions I have asked are plenty specific but let's try again.
Should someone that gets paid in dividends recieve help and why?
Well this is the first time you’ve asked this question but my answer would be no. They can furlough their salaries as can employees: "If dividends are not income why are they taxed? And if dividends are income then that loss of income as a result of lockdown needs to be recognised. Let us not forget that the reason why there are bailouts is to encourage people to stay at home during lockdown. If these people are left to live off 80% of £719 then they will continue to go out to work. | |||
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"Should someone that gets paid in dividends recieve help and why? I know the answer. Because the money earned for divends were taxed. Not once. But twice! If you are part of the country and pay your dues, then you are still part of the country when roles are reversed. There is also the aspect that it is in the HMRCs interest to keep these businesses going. They might pay less tax than a salaried person earning the same pay but they earn more and pay more tax than the equivalent salaried person doing the same job."
Its lost on them. Apparently it's their own fault for running a business. | |||
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"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim.
No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help.
You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont.
Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything.
Once again, show me where I have said they don’t deserve any help. I’ve merely stated what the actual position is. You really should read exactly what’s written instead of what you believe has been written. There’s a huge difference.
With respect to your claim that I’m not answering your questions, I’ve repeatedly asked you to be more specific, tell me what it is that I’m not replying to. How difficult is that to understand. I’m more than happy for anyone reading these posts to make their own minds up as to the relative merits of individuals postings.
You have stated they pay less tax, on a post talking about if self employed should get any help. You are arguing the points why they shouldn't regardless of if you have specifically stated you think they should of shouldn't.
Trying to divert away from answering the post I made with a irrelevant and spurious claim is typical of your argument throughout.
The questions I have asked are plenty specific but let's try again.
Should someone that gets paid in dividends recieve help and why?
Well this is the first time you’ve asked this question but my answer would be no. They can furlough their salaries as can employees:
So despite you trying to claim you weren't arguing against, you actually are.
You know that their dividends are their income and will struggle without help but because it is not defined as a salary it's ok that they cant pay their Bill's and feed their children?
"If you’d asked that question when I first asked you to be specific, I would have answered it.i I understand that dividends are their income but they have received favourable tax treatment on them. Would you be happy to pay back the tax benefits in order to furlough your divined income? | |||
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"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim.
No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help.
You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont.
Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything.
Once again, show me where I have said they don’t deserve any help. I’ve merely stated what the actual position is. You really should read exactly what’s written instead of what you believe has been written. There’s a huge difference.
With respect to your claim that I’m not answering your questions, I’ve repeatedly asked you to be more specific, tell me what it is that I’m not replying to. How difficult is that to understand. I’m more than happy for anyone reading these posts to make their own minds up as to the relative merits of individuals postings.
You have stated they pay less tax, on a post talking about if self employed should get any help. You are arguing the points why they shouldn't regardless of if you have specifically stated you think they should of shouldn't.
Trying to divert away from answering the post I made with a irrelevant and spurious claim is typical of your argument throughout.
The questions I have asked are plenty specific but let's try again.
Should someone that gets paid in dividends recieve help and why?
Well this is the first time you’ve asked this question but my answer would be no. They can furlough their salaries as can employees:
So despite you trying to claim you weren't arguing against, you actually are.
You know that their dividends are their income and will struggle without help but because it is not defined as a salary it's ok that they cant pay their Bill's and feed their children?
If you’d asked that question when I first asked you to be specific, I would have answered it.i I understand that dividends are their income but they have received favourable tax treatment on them. Would you be happy to pay back the tax benefits in order to furlough your divined income?"*Dividend income! | |||
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"For all those having a little laugh at the self employed people who take thier income as a dividend and are now getting screwed, remember, a lot of those people, me included, employ people, and those people pay PAYE, and we pay corporation tax, and if our businesses go under because of this those people don't have jobs and that tax doesn't get payed" Not only does that tax not get paid. They are now on benefits! Double whammy. | |||
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"Here's a question for salaried people... How would you like it if you paid PAYE every month, and then in addition to that at the end of the year you paid tax on your take pay for year? Sound fair? Because that's what dividend tax is. It's taxing money once when it is earned as Corporation Tax and again when it is paid out as dividends. If LLCs have no income because of lockdown there is no profit. Therefore no dividends. If there is no income there is no way to pay expenses such as accounts etc. Also no way to pay salaries because it may be June before they see a penny of the furlough money. That is zero income. Consider the children of those LLC directors. They didn't make a decision to be the children of LLC directors. Does it serve them right to starve too?" Of course you could take all your profits as salary and then you would only pay one tax, ie PAYE but that wouldn’t be tax efficient, which is why you take it as you do. Your choice! | |||
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"Here's a question for salaried people... How would you like it if you paid PAYE every month, and then in addition to that at the end of the year you paid tax on your take pay for year? Sound fair? Because that's what dividend tax is. It's taxing money once when it is earned as Corporation Tax and again when it is paid out as dividends. If LLCs have no income because of lockdown there is no profit. Therefore no dividends. If there is no income there is no way to pay expenses such as accounts etc. Also no way to pay salaries because it may be June before they see a penny of the furlough money. That is zero income. Consider the children of those LLC directors. They didn't make a decision to be the children of LLC directors. Does it serve them right to starve too?" Are you making use of any of the support being offered? | |||
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"Here's a question for salaried people... How would you like it if you paid PAYE every month, and then in addition to that at the end of the year you paid tax on your take pay for year? Sound fair? Because that's what dividend tax is. It's taxing money once when it is earned as Corporation Tax and again when it is paid out as dividends. If LLCs have no income because of lockdown there is no profit. Therefore no dividends. If there is no income there is no way to pay expenses such as accounts etc. Also no way to pay salaries because it may be June before they see a penny of the furlough money. That is zero income. Consider the children of those LLC directors. They didn't make a decision to be the children of LLC directors. Does it serve them right to starve too? Are you making use of any of the support being offered?" Not at present. As a result of my subcontractor going under I have plenty of work. Whether I get paid for that work is another matter. If I don't get paid I shall close my doors same as him. | |||
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"Ltd companies, all legit but 80% of paye not to include dividends, so will be well out of pocket and penalised for working hard. Not all builders are cash in hand cowboys
HMRC has demonised LLCs by saying 90% of them are outside the law. When challenged on this in the House of Lords, they had nothing.
People will believe what they want to believe. All they see is you earning more money than them and are jealous. They don't see the extra work, the risk one takes, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no protection from debtors who don't pay after the work is done."Well said I had a company go pop on me last year owing me £46500.00 What could I do just had to take it on the chin. So everyone having a pop about people being self employed should take in to consideration the risks of being out on your own I wouldn't have a go at anyone who tries to better themselves, it's all to easy to sit back and snipe and call people cash in hand cowboys | |||
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"Here's a question for salaried people... How would you like it if you paid PAYE every month, and then in addition to that at the end of the year you paid tax on your take pay for year? Sound fair? Because that's what dividend tax is. It's taxing money once when it is earned as Corporation Tax and again when it is paid out as dividends. If LLCs have no income because of lockdown there is no profit. Therefore no dividends. If there is no income there is no way to pay expenses such as accounts etc. Also no way to pay salaries because it may be June before they see a penny of the furlough money. That is zero income. Consider the children of those LLC directors. They didn't make a decision to be the children of LLC directors. Does it serve them right to starve too? Of course you could take all your profits as salary and then you would only pay one tax, ie PAYE but that wouldn’t be tax efficient, which is why you take it as you do. Your choice!" That's quite true. It is perhaps something I would have done if I had known I would have been penalised for being tax efficient down the line. I will seriously consider the change when the next pandemic comes around. | |||
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"Of course we are all noble. We would all happily pay more tax than we need to because we care so much about our fellow beings.... Until it comes to leaving enough toilet paper and then we just don't give a flying fuck about the next guy.
And those who would like to debate that just need to observe the empty supermarket shelves.
Well if you are as you claim to be, a sole director of a limited company whose remuneration consists of salary and dividends then you are paying approximately £10k less tax and NIC than an employee would on income up to £50 and your company is saving on corporation tax too. So what’s noble about that?
And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. What's your point?
In fact, this post of yours proves the real basis for some peoples contempt for the self employed, jealousy. You perceive them as contributing less than you.
In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus.
How does my post prove that? I have no contempt for the self employed, far from it, nor am I jealous of them. You have no idea as to what I do for a living. I would hazard a guess that the beneficial tax treatment of dividends may well be addressed in the next budget.
Because your whole argument is 'they contribute less'
No, reread what I have said as opposed to what you think I have said
You mean re-read this bit?
"I’m simply stating that a sole director of a one man Ltd company earning £50k and paying themselves by a mix of salary and dividends pay nearly £10k less in a PAYE and NI than an employee."
That’s a fact!
It is, well done. It's not the full story though, is it?
What is the full story?
Re-read my other posts. You will find it in the bits you ignored.
No, come on, please advise as to what the full story is
So you can ignore it, again?
Please advise me as to what I’m ignoring.
Its literally in the post you have just, and repeatedly quoted.
"And they probably pay more than 10k in vat, business rates, maybe employ staff that are paying tax/nic. "
"In reality they are contributing more, both in money and providing employment and economic stimulus."
And from another post -
" Do you realise that without people starting their own business there would be no jobs?
Even a one man band employs the services of others. Be it accountants, other business, landlords etc."
I fully understand that if no one started businesses there would be no employment. No one is arguing otherwise.
As for the first two paragraphs, I think I’ve answered the first. Some of what you say in the second paragraph is open to question, ie in reality contributing more in money. Not necessarily.
They may well be providing economic stimulus but the same could be argued for employees doing their jobs.
You haven't answered anything, you just (incorrectly) dismissed it.
As for employees contributing, you admit they couldn't do so without someone employing them. The gov recognise this and everything else they bring to the table and that is why they make allowances.
No self employed is getting "free money" for being self employed. What advantages we do get are offset elsewhere. You just choose not to see that.
You obviously just want to argue ad nauseum. I believe I have answered what you repeatedly keep asking. If there is something specific than please advise me. I have asked several times.
I have never said self employed get free money. It’s a shame you don’t read what I have written as opposed to what you would like to believe I have written.
All I stated initially was that people in the position that Nuts claims to be in can furlough the PAYE salary. Not the dividends. Some are claiming that’s unfair but I’m pointing out in normal circumstances someone paying themselves £50k in a mix of dividends and salary can save £10k in government deductions over what a salaried employee earning £50K can. As I stated earlier, I think the benefits of taking remuneration in salary and dividends will be addressed at the next budget.
And again you make assumptions about what others fail to see as you have no idea as to what others occupations / employment statuses are.
Let's get this right.
You claim you aren't saying that they get free money but in the same breath REPEAT your point that they get taxed less and are better off by virtue of not being a normal employee.
The difference in tax is already offset elsewhere which means that it is not extra income, just that the gov are getting their cut from another aspect of their business.
So why should someone that contributes the same, if not (far) more not recieve the same help as an employee would, simply because their income comes as dividends?
As I have said, you obviously want to argue ad nauseum. I have never said they get free money but yes that they benefit from paying less tax and NI than an employed person. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.
It’s also questionable as to whether this benefit is offset elsewhere as you claim.
No, you want to keep hanging on the same point that because they get a tax concession they dont deserve any help.
You just dismiss points without adding any justification and do your best to sidestep answering any question at all by trying to imply I am arguing 'ad nauseam' despite it being you that just makes the same point, ad nauseam where as I am elaborating on my input, providing evidence, asking questions and giving justification. All of which you dont.
Saying you 'believe' you have answered my question does not make it so and anyone is free to read your replies and see you haven't answered anything.
Once again, show me where I have said they don’t deserve any help. I’ve merely stated what the actual position is. You really should read exactly what’s written instead of what you believe has been written. There’s a huge difference.
With respect to your claim that I’m not answering your questions, I’ve repeatedly asked you to be more specific, tell me what it is that I’m not replying to. How difficult is that to understand. I’m more than happy for anyone reading these posts to make their own minds up as to the relative merits of individuals postings.
You have stated they pay less tax, on a post talking about if self employed should get any help. You are arguing the points why they shouldn't regardless of if you have specifically stated you think they should of shouldn't.
Trying to divert away from answering the post I made with a irrelevant and spurious claim is typical of your argument throughout.
The questions I have asked are plenty specific but let's try again.
Should someone that gets paid in dividends recieve help and why?
Well this is the first time you’ve asked this question but my answer would be no. They can furlough their salaries as can employees:
So despite you trying to claim you weren't arguing against, you actually are.
You know that their dividends are their income and will struggle without help but because it is not defined as a salary it's ok that they cant pay their Bill's and feed their children?
If you’d asked that question when I first asked you to be specific, I would have answered it.i I understand that dividends are their income but they have received favourable tax treatment on them. Would you be happy to pay back the tax benefits in order to furlough your divined income?"It's pretty much the same questions I have been asking all along other than its condensed into a form that you can't avoid with double speak. As I stated, your argument boils down to saying they have had the money in tax breaks. As I have also stated they get that tax break because of the other things they contribute. I.e they have earned the tax relief. It is not free money and their dividends are their wages. They should be helped with their wages just as employees are. | |||
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"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now "Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy, But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again | |||
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"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now
Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy,
But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again"And that's my point. It flies in the face of the chancellors promise to stand behind "each and every one" of us. He did not say I promise to stand behind each and every one who deserves it. This doesn't apply to me at present but I feel your pain. Hang in there guys and keep that fighting spirit! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now
Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy,
But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again
And that's my point. It flies in the face of the chancellors promise to stand behind "each and every one" of us. He did not say I promise to stand behind each and every one who deserves it.
This doesn't apply to me at present but I feel your pain. Hang in there guys and keep that fighting spirit! "Problem really is that it's all lip service, I have two friends with companies one has a 20 million a year turn over and the other is 5 million a year, they both applied for CBIL loans as promised so they can cover the 80% wage bill, and guess what they both got knocked back, I did read that only 0.65% of loans applied for had been granted, so the wages promised to the workers buy the government has to come from them, It's the reason I wont even bother trying to get funds, I will just soldier on the best I can and hope I can make it through the other side, I'm owed a lot of money in but I dont owe a lot out so I think I will be OK, fingers crossed | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A number of Self Employed around here are bitching that they are not going to get much from the Government. When I reply that they should only be 20% worse off than before, they then realise that those Cash In Hand jobs were not such a great idea. You can not take from the Government and then expect to get it back. " what a cock! Not all self employed people do cash. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now
Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy,
But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again
And that's my point. It flies in the face of the chancellors promise to stand behind "each and every one" of us. He did not say I promise to stand behind each and every one who deserves it.
This doesn't apply to me at present but I feel your pain. Hang in there guys and keep that fighting spirit!
Problem really is that it's all lip service, I have two friends with companies one has a 20 million a year turn over and the other is 5 million a year, they both applied for CBIL loans as promised so they can cover the 80% wage bill, and guess what they both got knocked back, I did read that only 0.65% of loans applied for had been granted, so the wages promised to the workers buy the government has to come from them,
It's the reason I wont even bother trying to get funds, I will just soldier on the best I can and hope I can make it through the other side,
I'm owed a lot of money in but I dont owe a lot out so I think I will be OK, fingers crossed "I did raise this in another thread and was told that the money has only just been released to Local Government and we need to give it time. So my question regarding them is: have they been rejected or are they still waiting? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now
Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy,
But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again
And that's my point. It flies in the face of the chancellors promise to stand behind "each and every one" of us. He did not say I promise to stand behind each and every one who deserves it.
This doesn't apply to me at present but I feel your pain. Hang in there guys and keep that fighting spirit!
Problem really is that it's all lip service, I have two friends with companies one has a 20 million a year turn over and the other is 5 million a year, they both applied for CBIL loans as promised so they can cover the 80% wage bill, and guess what they both got knocked back, I did read that only 0.65% of loans applied for had been granted, so the wages promised to the workers buy the government has to come from them,
It's the reason I wont even bother trying to get funds, I will just soldier on the best I can and hope I can make it through the other side,
I'm owed a lot of money in but I dont owe a lot out so I think I will be OK, fingers crossed "I understood that all furloughed PAYE employees would get the 80% from the Goverment, via their employer. I believe that applications for this money have only just started, so that employers should be able to cover the April wage bill, although it is backdated. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now
Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy,
But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again
And that's my point. It flies in the face of the chancellors promise to stand behind "each and every one" of us. He did not say I promise to stand behind each and every one who deserves it.
This doesn't apply to me at present but I feel your pain. Hang in there guys and keep that fighting spirit!
Problem really is that it's all lip service, I have two friends with companies one has a 20 million a year turn over and the other is 5 million a year, they both applied for CBIL loans as promised so they can cover the 80% wage bill, and guess what they both got knocked back, I did read that only 0.65% of loans applied for had been granted, so the wages promised to the workers buy the government has to come from them,
It's the reason I wont even bother trying to get funds, I will just soldier on the best I can and hope I can make it through the other side,
I'm owed a lot of money in but I dont owe a lot out so I think I will be OK, fingers crossed
I did raise this in another thread and was told that the money has only just been released to Local Government and we need to give it time.
So my question regarding them is: have they been rejected or are they still waiting?"My friend with the 5 million company banks with Barclays and got a flat no dont even bother asking again The guy with the larger company banks with natwest/RBS got a no on the loan buy was told he might be eligible for an overdraft to cover the wages, so the banks arse is covered, an overdraft is repayable on demand so as soon as everyone is back to work they will call it straight In, just makes me laugh that the very bank that was bailed out by the taxpayer wont lend taxpayers money even under the direction of the government Go figure | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now
Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy,
But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again
And that's my point. It flies in the face of the chancellors promise to stand behind "each and every one" of us. He did not say I promise to stand behind each and every one who deserves it.
This doesn't apply to me at present but I feel your pain. Hang in there guys and keep that fighting spirit!
Problem really is that it's all lip service, I have two friends with companies one has a 20 million a year turn over and the other is 5 million a year, they both applied for CBIL loans as promised so they can cover the 80% wage bill, and guess what they both got knocked back, I did read that only 0.65% of loans applied for had been granted, so the wages promised to the workers buy the government has to come from them,
It's the reason I wont even bother trying to get funds, I will just soldier on the best I can and hope I can make it through the other side,
I'm owed a lot of money in but I dont owe a lot out so I think I will be OK, fingers crossed
I did raise this in another thread and was told that the money has only just been released to Local Government and we need to give it time.
So my question regarding them is: have they been rejected or are they still waiting?
My friend with the 5 million company banks with Barclays and got a flat no dont even bother asking again
The guy with the larger company banks with natwest/RBS got a no on the loan buy was told he might be eligible for an overdraft to cover the wages, so the banks arse is covered, an overdraft is repayable on demand so as soon as everyone is back to work they will call it straight In, just makes me laugh that the very bank that was bailed out by the taxpayer wont lend taxpayers money even under the direction of the government
Go figure "Thanks for that answer. I couldn't get that level of info off the internet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now
Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy,
But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again
And that's my point. It flies in the face of the chancellors promise to stand behind "each and every one" of us. He did not say I promise to stand behind each and every one who deserves it.
This doesn't apply to me at present but I feel your pain. Hang in there guys and keep that fighting spirit!
Problem really is that it's all lip service, I have two friends with companies one has a 20 million a year turn over and the other is 5 million a year, they both applied for CBIL loans as promised so they can cover the 80% wage bill, and guess what they both got knocked back, I did read that only 0.65% of loans applied for had been granted, so the wages promised to the workers buy the government has to come from them,
It's the reason I wont even bother trying to get funds, I will just soldier on the best I can and hope I can make it through the other side,
I'm owed a lot of money in but I dont owe a lot out so I think I will be OK, fingers crossed
I understood that all furloughed PAYE employees would get the 80% from the Goverment, via their employer.
I believe that applications for this money have only just started, so that employers should be able to cover the April wage bill, although it is backdated.
"That's probably true buy let's see how realistic the times for the government to cover it are, But the flipside to that is, if your a company already on your arse your owed bundles of money buy companies who are not answering emails and the phone and who's staff are already furloughed so you have no chance of getting your invoices paid, where do you find all these wages while your not working and not getting paid, while your hoping to get money back from the government but you have no idea when that will be if at all ever I know it sounds like I'm all doom and gloom but it's the cold hard truth | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I fall in to the bracket of self-employed, one man band, limited company owner, director, and general dogsbody. I’m not moaning about the current situation, I’m just doing my best to work from home, keeping the business I’ve built up over the last 20 years ticking over for as long as possible. That’s 20 years of paying myself the minimum salary to keep up my NI contributions, and topping up with a dividend income. 20 years of never working less than 60 hours per week, paying my own holiday pay (while not earning income), and building my own pension pot. 20 years of paying tax on my dividend payments, 20 years of Corporation Tax on the 6-figure turnover, and associated VAT element. Personally, I live in hope that the government will bring in some form of financial relief for business people like myself (and I do believe we have been an oversight), as they are just making things up day to day, to cope with this crisis, which nobody had a contingency to deal with. Watching my business crumble piece by piece, with very little I can do about it, is heartbreaking, but our health is more important right now
Unfortunately your in the same boat as myself and thousands of others, we will get bugger all it's just lip service to keep everyone happy,
But we will just carry on and try to keep going as we did through the last recession and other hard times, downsize, sell assets and when the good times come back if ever they do we will just try and grow again
And that's my point. It flies in the face of the chancellors promise to stand behind "each and every one" of us. He did not say I promise to stand behind each and every one who deserves it.
This doesn't apply to me at present but I feel your pain. Hang in there guys and keep that fighting spirit!
Problem really is that it's all lip service, I have two friends with companies one has a 20 million a year turn over and the other is 5 million a year, they both applied for CBIL loans as promised so they can cover the 80% wage bill, and guess what they both got knocked back, I did read that only 0.65% of loans applied for had been granted, so the wages promised to the workers buy the government has to come from them,
It's the reason I wont even bother trying to get funds, I will just soldier on the best I can and hope I can make it through the other side,
I'm owed a lot of money in but I dont owe a lot out so I think I will be OK, fingers crossed
I did raise this in another thread and was told that the money has only just been released to Local Government and we need to give it time.
So my question regarding them is: have they been rejected or are they still waiting?
My friend with the 5 million company banks with Barclays and got a flat no dont even bother asking again
The guy with the larger company banks with natwest/RBS got a no on the loan buy was told he might be eligible for an overdraft to cover the wages, so the banks arse is covered, an overdraft is repayable on demand so as soon as everyone is back to work they will call it straight In, just makes me laugh that the very bank that was bailed out by the taxpayer wont lend taxpayers money even under the direction of the government
Go figure "I don’t think we are getting the full story, are we? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
