FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > How does the American medical system work?
How does the American medical system work?
Jump to: Newest in thread
I am well aware of the insurance that is required to get , well any treatment.
And free hospitals are few and far between.
Seeing the soaring death rates in the USA in the news yet claims that they have a massive surplus of ventilators and certain black communities are getting hit the hardest.
Does this mean basically the people who can afford the treatment are ok and they are letting people die who can't afford treatment or is this completely wrong?
I really don't understand the American medical system or their politics.
But it proves how important our NHS is and the importance of keeping it going properly funded. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am well aware of the insurance that is required to get , well any treatment.
And free hospitals are few and far between.
Seeing the soaring death rates in the USA in the news yet claims that they have a massive surplus of ventilators and certain black communities are getting hit the hardest.
Does this mean basically the people who can afford the treatment are ok and they are letting people die who can't afford treatment or is this completely wrong?
I really don't understand the American medical system or their politics.
But it proves how important our NHS is and the importance of keeping it going properly funded."
I think..and I may be wrong..if you dont have private medical insurance..you get a basic level of healthcare.
Whereas if you pay..you get a much better standard.Some jobs offer private healthcare I think?
Obvs the more you pay the better access you get.
Regards covid if you pay you prob get priority testing and treatment.If not you are at the back of the queue.I think its hitting black communities bad isnt it?
I think thats how it works anyway. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am well aware of the insurance that is required to get , well any treatment.
And free hospitals are few and far between.
Seeing the soaring death rates in the USA in the news yet claims that they have a massive surplus of ventilators and certain black communities are getting hit the hardest.
Does this mean basically the people who can afford the treatment are ok and they are letting people die who can't afford treatment or is this completely wrong?
I really don't understand the American medical system or their politics.
But it proves how important our NHS is and the importance of keeping it going properly funded.
I think..and I may be wrong..if you dont have private medical insurance..you get a basic level of healthcare.
Whereas if you pay..you get a much better standard.Some jobs offer private healthcare I think?
Obvs the more you pay the better access you get.
Regards covid if you pay you prob get priority testing and treatment.If not you are at the back of the queue.I think its hitting black communities bad isnt it?
I think thats how it works anyway."
Does this explain the boasts of trump regards the amount of Tests being done, in that the insurance firms are paying for those that can afford it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I lived in the states for a while. They check if you’re insured on a database like the police use here for your car. No one gets turned away from a hospital as that is against the doctors oath. But yes you get a basic care and you will be billed for it. People do lose houses over unpaid medical bills. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I thought without insurance you get whacked with a bill to pay for any treatment etc you receive ? "
I'm not sure..I remember reading you get a basic level but if you need treatment/operation etc you get whacked with a big bill
People have lost their homes over their because of it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am well aware of the insurance that is required to get , well any treatment.
And free hospitals are few and far between.
Seeing the soaring death rates in the USA in the news yet claims that they have a massive surplus of ventilators and certain black communities are getting hit the hardest.
Does this mean basically the people who can afford the treatment are ok and they are letting people die who can't afford treatment or is this completely wrong?
I really don't understand the American medical system or their politics.
But it proves how important our NHS is and the importance of keeping it going properly funded.
I think..and I may be wrong..if you dont have private medical insurance..you get a basic level of healthcare.
Whereas if you pay..you get a much better standard.Some jobs offer private healthcare I think?
Obvs the more you pay the better access you get.
Regards covid if you pay you prob get priority testing and treatment.If not you are at the back of the queue.I think its hitting black communities bad isnt it?
I think thats how it works anyway.
Does this explain the boasts of trump regards the amount of Tests being done, in that the insurance firms are paying for those that can afford it?"
Surely you know to say what that moron says with a huge pinch of salt. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emptd2Man
over a year ago
Burgess Hill & Birmingham |
"I lived in the states for a while. They check if you’re insured on a database like the police use here for your car. No one gets turned away from a hospital as that is against the doctors oath. But yes you get a basic care and you will be billed for it. People do lose houses over unpaid medical bills. "
That's fucked up. What if you have a long term illness like cancer or diabetes?
You're supposed to be die? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I spoke with a black man in Central Park in Feb before this all broke he was painting portraits trying to make a few quid was a recovering alcoholic . Basically your insurance is governed by your income the more you earn and pay for it the better cover you get plus you get taken to the better facilities more equipment better staffing etc . If your poor and unemployed and on low income you get taken to the crap hospitals less equipment overcrowding fewer staff etc   |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"I think I read on here somewhere that someone's relative had corona and the bill was 30K dollars.
"
Maybe that was me, my sister was hospitalised after testing positive. She is a long established self employed white collar professional. She was in hospital for 6 days, I'm told the hospital bill is just shy of $40,000. They (the family) pay something in the region of $500 a month for health insurance. What they will end up paying is not fully clear yet. After something like there's a bargaining and negotiating process between the patient, healthcare provider and insurance provider.
The healthcare system is very complex and varies by state. Health insurance is often provided by employer but its a very complex system Wiki has an overview of the process, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_States
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Many people get employer sourced insurance, which may cover family too. There will be limits to its coverage and potential co-pay requirements, such that patients pay some of each cost and many of these have increased in recent years, especially for medicines. They are increasingly denying cover for treatments too, they're not a blank cheque for medics to do anything they can earn from - but ovrr-testing has been rife for years. Hospitals have dumped patients on to the streets, where they are not being paid for any longer or the insurance coverage and payment got refused. Pre-existing conditions have been a major issue for many, as many problems are chronic or deteriorate, people change jobs, have breaks for kids etc.
There results many grades of service that patients may get. Cancer treatments have been a big issue, for example, if they persist or complicate. Insurance stops as your job finishes, so the unemployment crisis is a huge devastation for many.
You are expected to show means of payment and the insurance companies have operated worse than our home, travel insurance companies etc, for denial of patient claims, so unexpected requirements for patients to have to pay more are frequent.
Obviously all parts of the system work to deliver profits, so nothing is cheap, it is all expensive. Ethnic minorities have worse employment prospects and health care prospects. Anyone could attend a public hospital but expect it to be much, much worse than attendance at a UK A&E for waiting times. You'd get basic grade treatment and these places will be largely struggling to cope. With this virus, only those with severe symptoms will need treatment and will increasingly struggle to get attention and care. With insurance, you'll have doors opened but could still find delays as capacity is diminished or if insurers start to limit coverage. We know this virus attacks those with some underlying conditions more severely and I'd expect that may want to be used as justification for denials of coverage. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
A few years ago I read a report from a European Red Cross volunteer who had been out to relief efforts after the boxing day tsunami. A few years after she was deployed to the USA and it was to a field hospital / treatment set up in one of the football stadiums in the off season. Designed to provide desperately needed care, support and medicines to not just the unemployed as the majority of those visited / used the field hospital were in work just on low incomes!
She couldn't believe the world's biggest super power needed Red Cross health support normally reserved for 3rd world countries.
I'd love to find that report as it certainly opened my eyes to just how lucky we are in the UK.
KJ x Mr |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oss25Man
over a year ago
Flitwick and Fakenham |
The uninsured are dying by their thousands at home in the good old US of A.....uncared for and uncounted
The ONLY thing Trump cares about is the economy and blaming anybody and everybody else for his woeful handling of the pandemic |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"I am well aware of the insurance that is required to get , well any treatment.
And free hospitals are few and far between.
Seeing the soaring death rates in the USA in the news yet claims that they have a massive surplus of ventilators and certain black communities are getting hit the hardest.
Does this mean basically the people who can afford the treatment are ok and they are letting people die who can't afford treatment or is this completely wrong?
I really don't understand the American medical system or their politics.
But it proves how important our NHS is and the importance of keeping it going properly funded."
There's quite a few different factors in play here. Some health, others socio-economic and some is politics at local state and federal levels.
CV19 is hardest on those with poor health or preexisting conditions like diabetes and obesity, which are very high in certain black communities. Messaging also comes into this as well, put simply theres been a failure in getting the message accross.
As already stated elsewhere in the thread, your healthcare is directly related to your ability to pay.
Cities and States in the US have much autonomy in decision making, some have got ahead of this, others have been very reluctant to act. What is happening on a federal level is nothing short of criminal. States have to compete in auction for vital medical equipment. Kushner is the genius behind this fuckery. Trump is also using medical equipment allocation to punish enemies and reward friends. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"And trump wants his grubby little hands on the NHS
Except he doesn’t
When asked if the NHS was involved in a future trade dealtrimo said"everything is on The table'
Source bbc news"
When asked on 3rd December last year stated he wants ‘nothing to do’ with it and wouldn’t be interested if it came ‘on a silver platter’.
Source BBC News |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"And trump wants his grubby little hands on the NHS
Except he doesn’t
When asked if the NHS was involved in a future trade dealtrimo said"everything is on The table'
Source bbc news
When asked on 3rd December last year stated he wants ‘nothing to do’ with it and wouldn’t be interested if it came ‘on a silver platter’.
Source BBC News"
So he says 1 thing 1 day and contradicts himself the next
How unlike him
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Has Obamacare gone completely?
"
The very day President Trump was sworn in — Jan. 20, 2017 — he signed an executive order instructing administration officials "to waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay" implementing parts of the Affordable Care Act, while Congress got ready to repeal and replace President Obama's signature health law.
Since then it has been eroded inch by inch to be replaced with Trump's amazing medical care scheme. Which they are still waiting for....
Maybe it's like the cliffhanger at the end of a TV series season that has you waiting for the next season to come out....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Has Obamacare gone completely?
The very day President Trump was sworn in — Jan. 20, 2017 — he signed an executive order instructing administration officials "to waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay" implementing parts of the Affordable Care Act, while Congress got ready to repeal and replace President Obama's signature health law.
Since then it has been eroded inch by inch to be replaced with Trump's amazing medical care scheme. Which they are still waiting for....
Maybe it's like the cliffhanger at the end of a TV series season that has you waiting for the next season to come out....
"
I saw a bit on The news where ordinary Americans were protesting against it.
A system that would actually benefit them
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs. "
American drugs companies are more .expensive |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Where’s Fabio?
He’s a man who knows stuff like this, a source of quality information ...
"
right.... the best way i can explain it is to say it's complicated, so the because the describe it is to take out those that are covered... and then show you where the gaps are!
so right, at a "basic" health insurance level:
a)those under 18 are covered under what is known as "chips" (childrens health insurance packages)
b) those over 65 are covered by what is known as "medicare" (think of that as a basic us version of the nhs)
c) the poorest are normally covered under what is known as "medicaid"... but it is administered by the states and criteria can vary... even though it is means tested, being poor alone doesn't always get you cover!
now remember the term "basic".. the problems arise that they can charge you more if you have pre-existing conditions... and because it only covers you up to a certain dollar amount, if you have to have certain care, you still need to cover that from your own pocket....
the problem is that sometimes the insurance cover (if you are not getting it thru your employers) can be so expensive thats why some don get it.... so you have a bunch of people that aren't poor enough to get medicare but aren't rich enough to be able to afford health insurance!
and thats the gap that the "affordable care act" was suppose to fix....
so basically "states" were suppose to offer a package that you couldn't turn people down for pre existing conditions, and basically be at the level of coverage as "medicare"
it was subsidised by the govt....so if was more affordable for hose who couldn't get cover in the past...
the problem is that because "states" had to make this package available.... some "red" ones (republican) refused to take the money to subsidise it.... because they didn't want to make it so attractive against private health insurance cover...
hope that helps.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Has Obamacare gone completely?
The very day President Trump was sworn in — Jan. 20, 2017 — he signed an executive order instructing administration officials "to waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay" implementing parts of the Affordable Care Act, while Congress got ready to repeal and replace President Obama's signature health law.
Since then it has been eroded inch by inch to be replaced with Trump's amazing medical care scheme. Which they are still waiting for....
Maybe it's like the cliffhanger at the end of a TV series season that has you waiting for the next season to come out....
I saw a bit on The news where ordinary Americans were protesting against it.
A system that would actually benefit them
"
Well it turns out Trump was right. There are now no cases of COVID-19 in the USA. A few people got sniffles but it's nothing as bad as the flu. Bloody Dems and their hoaxes! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive"
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"And trump wants his grubby little hands on the NHS
Except he doesn’t
When asked if the NHS was involved in a future trade dealtrimo said"everything is on The table'
Source bbc news
When asked on 3rd December last year stated he wants ‘nothing to do’ with it and wouldn’t be interested if it came ‘on a silver platter’.
Source BBC News
So he says 1 thing 1 day and contradicts himself the next
How unlike him
"
I’m not trying to defend Trump or the American system, I’m just pointing out you can’t come out with ridiculous statements that suit your agenda when there is evidence to the contrary. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used. "
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"And trump wants his grubby little hands on the NHS
Except he doesn’t
When asked if the NHS was involved in a future trade dealtrimo said"everything is on The table'
Source bbc news
When asked on 3rd December last year stated he wants ‘nothing to do’ with it and wouldn’t be interested if it came ‘on a silver platter’.
Source BBC News
So he says 1 thing 1 day and contradicts himself the next
How unlike him
I’m not trying to defend Trump or the American system, I’m just pointing out you can’t come out with ridiculous statements that suit your agenda when there is evidence to the contrary. "
Try sticking to the topic and not resorting to pathetic insults.
He said in black and white it's on the table.
He then contradicted himself.
You believe what you want to believe. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing....."
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And trump wants his grubby little hands on the NHS
Except he doesn’t
When asked if the NHS was involved in a future trade dealtrimo said"everything is on The table'
Source bbc news
When asked on 3rd December last year stated he wants ‘nothing to do’ with it and wouldn’t be interested if it came ‘on a silver platter’.
Source BBC News
So he says 1 thing 1 day and contradicts himself the next
How unlike him
I’m not trying to defend Trump or the American system, I’m just pointing out you can’t come out with ridiculous statements that suit your agenda when there is evidence to the contrary.
Try sticking to the topic and not resorting to pathetic insults.
He said in black and white it's on the table.
He then contradicted himself.
You believe what you want to believe."
You really don't like people having a difference of opinion do you?
I can't see any 'pathetic insults'in his statement. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?"
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"And trump wants his grubby little hands on the NHS
Except he doesn’t
When asked if the NHS was involved in a future trade dealtrimo said"everything is on The table'
Source bbc news
When asked on 3rd December last year stated he wants ‘nothing to do’ with it and wouldn’t be interested if it came ‘on a silver platter’.
Source BBC News
So he says 1 thing 1 day and contradicts himself the next
How unlike him
I’m not trying to defend Trump or the American system, I’m just pointing out you can’t come out with ridiculous statements that suit your agenda when there is evidence to the contrary.
Try sticking to the topic and not resorting to pathetic insults.
He said in black and white it's on the table.
He then contradicted himself.
You believe what you want to believe.
You really don't like people having a difference of opinion do you?
I can't see any 'pathetic insults'in his statement."
Go and bother someone else |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used. "
Do you know what it costs to make insulin and what insulin costs? Just for example.
Look up Valeant.... yes it happened in the US but we are getting screwed too.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/insulin-costs-nhs-five-times-more-than-it-should-swr32q09q |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy "
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"And trump wants his grubby little hands on the NHS
Except he doesn’t
When asked if the NHS was involved in a future trade dealtrimo said"everything is on The table'
Source bbc news
When asked on 3rd December last year stated he wants ‘nothing to do’ with it and wouldn’t be interested if it came ‘on a silver platter’.
Source BBC News
So he says 1 thing 1 day and contradicts himself the next
How unlike him
I’m not trying to defend Trump or the American system, I’m just pointing out you can’t come out with ridiculous statements that suit your agenda when there is evidence to the contrary.
Try sticking to the topic and not resorting to pathetic insults.
He said in black and white it's on the table.
He then contradicted himself.
You believe what you want to believe."
1. The topic is the American medical system - you brought Trump into it.
2. Please feel free to highlight where I have insulted anyone. Challenging someone’s ideology and providing evidence in support is not the same as an insult
3. Just because what I believe differs to you doesn’t mean I’m anymore right, or wrong than you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies"
There isn’t one at the moment. We are tied into European companies only. I worked GSK so do know this industry and Mrs was at drug regulation in London. It is something we know. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"And trump wants his grubby little hands on the NHS
Except he doesn’t
When asked if the NHS was involved in a future trade dealtrimo said"everything is on The table'
Source bbc news
When asked on 3rd December last year stated he wants ‘nothing to do’ with it and wouldn’t be interested if it came ‘on a silver platter’.
Source BBC News
So he says 1 thing 1 day and contradicts himself the next
How unlike him
I’m not trying to defend Trump or the American system, I’m just pointing out you can’t come out with ridiculous statements that suit your agenda when there is evidence to the contrary.
Try sticking to the topic and not resorting to pathetic insults.
He said in black and white it's on the table.
He then contradicted himself.
You believe what you want to believe.
1. The topic is the American medical system - you brought Trump into it.
2. Please feel free to highlight where I have insulted anyone. Challenging someone’s ideology and providing evidence in support is not the same as an insult
3. Just because what I believe differs to you doesn’t mean I’m anymore right, or wrong than you "
The topic Is the American health care system..trump is president..see the link.
I quoted exactly what trump said and you said it was a 'ridiculous statement'
I'm.happy to argue without anyone with rubbishing their opinion
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies
There isn’t one at the moment. We are tied into European companies only. I worked GSK so do know this industry and Mrs was at drug regulation in London. It is something we know. "
So you can say with absolutele certainly..if we buy drugs from american companies,we will be paying less than what we are now? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I've just been watching Tucker Carlson doing an interview and there is some great news. Apparently the whole social distancing isn't really necessary, the virus isn't as deadly as they thought it was and the numbers are just made up.
And Fox is where Trump gets his information from. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies
There isn’t one at the moment. We are tied into European companies only. I worked GSK so do know this industry and Mrs was at drug regulation in London. It is something we know.
So you can say with absolutele certainly..if we buy drugs from american companies,we will be paying less than what we are now?"
I don't think anyone claimed any such thing.
But basic economics tell us that the bigger the purchasing power, the more likelihood of a cheaper price. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well because we still have the trade links to Europe for drugs and the fact that the NHS has to declare their costs through the freedom of information act. If someone in the NHS goes with a more expensive company they will have to answer for that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies
There isn’t one at the moment. We are tied into European companies only. I worked GSK so do know this industry and Mrs was at drug regulation in London. It is something we know.
So you can say with absolutele certainly..if we buy drugs from american companies,we will be paying less than what we are now?
I don't think anyone claimed any such thing.
But basic economics tell us that the bigger the purchasing power, the more likelihood of a cheaper price."
See post further up
Should be cheaper |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies
There isn’t one at the moment. We are tied into European companies only. I worked GSK so do know this industry and Mrs was at drug regulation in London. It is something we know.
So you can say with absolutele certainly..if we buy drugs from american companies,we will be paying less than what we are now?
I don't think anyone claimed any such thing.
But basic economics tell us that the bigger the purchasing power, the more likelihood of a cheaper price.
See post further up
Should be cheaper"
Should lower costs is not the same as 'absolute certainty' |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Well because we still have the trade links to Europe for drugs and the fact that the NHS has to declare their costs through the freedom of information act. If someone in the NHS goes with a more expensive company they will have to answer for that. "
So we simply dont know then?
They could be cheaper they could be a lot more expensive?
There was a ch4 dispatches show saying they could be a lot more expensive. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies
There isn’t one at the moment. We are tied into European companies only. I worked GSK so do know this industry and Mrs was at drug regulation in London. It is something we know.
So you can say with absolutele certainly..if we buy drugs from american companies,we will be paying less than what we are now?
I don't think anyone claimed any such thing.
But basic economics tell us that the bigger the purchasing power, the more likelihood of a cheaper price.
See post further up
Should be cheaper
Should lower costs is not the same as 'absolute certainty'"
Please go away |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies
There isn’t one at the moment. We are tied into European companies only. I worked GSK so do know this industry and Mrs was at drug regulation in London. It is something we know.
So you can say with absolutele certainly..if we buy drugs from american companies,we will be paying less than what we are now?
I don't think anyone claimed any such thing.
But basic economics tell us that the bigger the purchasing power, the more likelihood of a cheaper price.
See post further up
Should be cheaper
Should lower costs is not the same as 'absolute certainty'
Please go away"
This is an open forum. If you don't like my input you are free to ignore it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
there is a bit of truth to that.... the other reason why drugs are more expensive is the buying power
the NHS acts as one big company so they can drive the prices down for drugs they get.... the weird thing is that it is against US law for medicare to do the same thing! so it is up to individual hospitals to do the purchasing.....
So each individual hospital would have to negotiate a price?
No he clearly states that’s what happens in America. We are not adopting the same procurement strategy
Can you show me a link to the current Anglo us trade/procurement deal re medical supplies
There isn’t one at the moment. We are tied into European companies only. I worked GSK so do know this industry and Mrs was at drug regulation in London. It is something we know.
So you can say with absolutele certainly..if we buy drugs from american companies,we will be paying less than what we are now?
I don't think anyone claimed any such thing.
But basic economics tell us that the bigger the purchasing power, the more likelihood of a cheaper price.
See post further up
Should be cheaper
Should lower costs is not the same as 'absolute certainty'
Please go away
This is an open forum. If you don't like my input you are free to ignore it"
Done. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Yes but we don’t have to buy them. The whole point is at the moment the United States medical industry has very little market in Europe. The EU keeps all drugs trade within itself. What he wants is a way to expand the market. We aren’t tied into American drugs only but they can then trade over here. If too much they don’t get purchased. Unless they have a drug that no one else has, until it’s patent runs out then everyone can manufacture it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes but we don’t have to buy them. The whole point is at the moment the United States medical industry has very little market in Europe. The EU keeps all drugs trade within itself. What he wants is a way to expand the market. We aren’t tied into American drugs only but they can then trade over here. If too much they don’t get purchased. Unless they have a drug that no one else has, until it’s patent runs out then everyone can manufacture it. "
if you got money in Pfizer you will be making a lot very soon. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Yes but we don’t have to buy them. The whole point is at the moment the United States medical industry has very little market in Europe. The EU keeps all drugs trade within itself. What he wants is a way to expand the market. We aren’t tied into American drugs only but they can then trade over here. If too much they don’t get purchased. Unless they have a drug that no one else has, until it’s patent runs out then everyone can manufacture it. "
Doesnt trump think they sell medicine too cheaply? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes but we don’t have to buy them. The whole point is at the moment the United States medical industry has very little market in Europe. The EU keeps all drugs trade within itself. What he wants is a way to expand the market. We aren’t tied into American drugs only but they can then trade over here. If too much they don’t get purchased. Unless they have a drug that no one else has, until it’s patent runs out then everyone can manufacture it.
if you got money in Pfizer you will be making a lot very soon."
GSK is still making a fortune on it's Discus line for which the patent ran out years ago and now making a fortune on their Elipta inhalers too. Good company to buy shares in |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes but we don’t have to buy them. The whole point is at the moment the United States medical industry has very little market in Europe. The EU keeps all drugs trade within itself. What he wants is a way to expand the market. We aren’t tied into American drugs only but they can then trade over here. If too much they don’t get purchased. Unless they have a drug that no one else has, until it’s patent runs out then everyone can manufacture it.
Doesnt trump think they sell medicine too cheaply?"
Think is a bit of a strong word. Says.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oAnCouple
over a year ago
Streatham |
"I lived in the states for a while. They check if you’re insured on a database like the police use here for your car. No one gets turned away from a hospital as that is against the doctors oath. But yes you get a basic care and you will be billed for it. People do lose houses over unpaid medical bills.
That's fucked up. What if you have a long term illness like cancer or diabetes?
You're supposed to be die? "
Depends on your income (if you earn nothing you can get free help but it is basic - like someone here already posted) -
Other countries like South Africa have the same sort of system, at the end of the day you still pay it is just that in the UK they average it out from your tax and pay that to the NHS, so if you are well you subsidise the sick basically which is why we need a lot of healthy people here.
In a free market system you are suppose to look after yourself and not rely on the state - so that is a basic difference - hence you pay cash or take out insurance in case something bad happens to you. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oAnCouple
over a year ago
Streatham |
"Yes but we don’t have to buy them. The whole point is at the moment the United States medical industry has very little market in Europe. The EU keeps all drugs trade within itself. What he wants is a way to expand the market. We aren’t tied into American drugs only but they can then trade over here. If too much they don’t get purchased. Unless they have a drug that no one else has, until it’s patent runs out then everyone can manufacture it.
if you got money in Pfizer you will be making a lot very soon.
GSK is still making a fortune on it's Discus line for which the patent ran out years ago and now making a fortune on their Elipta inhalers too. Good company to buy shares in "
GSK is British |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I lived in the states for a while. They check if you’re insured on a database like the police use here for your car. No one gets turned away from a hospital as that is against the doctors oath. But yes you get a basic care and you will be billed for it. People do lose houses over unpaid medical bills.
That's fucked up. What if you have a long term illness like cancer or diabetes?
You're supposed to be die?
Depends on your income (if you earn nothing you can get free help but it is basic - like someone here already posted) -
Other countries like South Africa have the same sort of system, at the end of the day you still pay it is just that in the UK they average it out from your tax and pay that to the NHS, so if you are well you subsidise the sick basically which is why we need a lot of healthy people here.
In a free market system you are suppose to look after yourself and not rely on the state - so that is a basic difference - hence you pay cash or take out insurance in case something bad happens to you."
I never knew Germany had the worlds 1st free healthcare system in the world.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Look after our NHS .... it's not till you see what it could cost that you appreciate what we have.
https://www.businessinsider.com/most-expensive-health-conditions-hospital-costs-2018-2?r=US&IR=T |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I lived in the states for a while. They check if you’re insured on a database like the police use here for your car. No one gets turned away from a hospital as that is against the doctors oath. But yes you get a basic care and you will be billed for it. People do lose houses over unpaid medical bills.
That's fucked up. What if you have a long term illness like cancer or diabetes?
You're supposed to be die?
Depends on your income (if you earn nothing you can get free help but it is basic - like someone here already posted) -
Other countries like South Africa have the same sort of system, at the end of the day you still pay it is just that in the UK they average it out from your tax and pay that to the NHS, so if you are well you subsidise the sick basically which is why we need a lot of healthy people here.
In a free market system you are suppose to look after yourself and not rely on the state - so that is a basic difference - hence you pay cash or take out insurance in case something bad happens to you."
In South Africa you have private hospitals and government hospitals. If you don't want to end up dying on a stretcher in a corridor and have your body lie their for three days you need medical aid. A decent medical aid costs more than the average mortgage payment |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes but we don’t have to buy them. The whole point is at the moment the United States medical industry has very little market in Europe. The EU keeps all drugs trade within itself. What he wants is a way to expand the market. We aren’t tied into American drugs only but they can then trade over here. If too much they don’t get purchased. Unless they have a drug that no one else has, until it’s patent runs out then everyone can manufacture it.
if you got money in Pfizer you will be making a lot very soon.
GSK is still making a fortune on it's Discus line for which the patent ran out years ago and now making a fortune on their Elipta inhalers too. Good company to buy shares in
GSK is British"
It is that  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I lived in the states for a while. They check if you’re insured on a database like the police use here for your car. No one gets turned away from a hospital as that is against the doctors oath. But yes you get a basic care and you will be billed for it. People do lose houses over unpaid medical bills.
That's fucked up. What if you have a long term illness like cancer or diabetes?
You're supposed to be die?
Depends on your income (if you earn nothing you can get free help but it is basic - like someone here already posted) -
Other countries like South Africa have the same sort of system, at the end of the day you still pay it is just that in the UK they average it out from your tax and pay that to the NHS, so if you are well you subsidise the sick basically which is why we need a lot of healthy people here.
In a free market system you are suppose to look after yourself and not rely on the state - so that is a basic difference - hence you pay cash or take out insurance in case something bad happens to you.
In South Africa you have private hospitals and government hospitals. If you don't want to end up dying on a stretcher in a corridor and have your body lie their for three days you need medical aid. A decent medical aid costs more than the average mortgage payment "
The thing is we have partly that here..if I need an op i can pay and jump the queue and get it done.
But at least there is some sort of safety that.
Saying that I know someone who needed a heart op and they did they couldnt afford ot and she had to pay. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The problem with private medical care is that when institutions see you have private medical they crank up the costs, even the cotton swab you get before an injection gets billed (at a redicilous price). People who incur the costs don't mind because they never see the bill. The medical aid doesn't mind because they just pass their costs on to their customers. Everybody wins except the guy on the street. Decent health care becomes unaffordable.
Then there is the issue of pre existing conditions which aren't covered... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I lived in the states for a while. They check if you’re insured on a database like the police use here for your car. No one gets turned away from a hospital as that is against the doctors oath. But yes you get a basic care and you will be billed for it. People do lose houses over unpaid medical bills.
That's fucked up. What if you have a long term illness like cancer or diabetes?
You're supposed to be die?
Depends on your income (if you earn nothing you can get free help but it is basic - like someone here already posted) -
Other countries like South Africa have the same sort of system, at the end of the day you still pay it is just that in the UK they average it out from your tax and pay that to the NHS, so if you are well you subsidise the sick basically which is why we need a lot of healthy people here.
In a free market system you are suppose to look after yourself and not rely on the state - so that is a basic difference - hence you pay cash or take out insurance in case something bad happens to you.
In South Africa you have private hospitals and government hospitals. If you don't want to end up dying on a stretcher in a corridor and have your body lie their for three days you need medical aid. A decent medical aid costs more than the average mortgage payment
The thing is we have partly that here..if I need an op i can pay and jump the queue and get it done.
But at least there is some sort of safety that.
Saying that I know someone who needed a heart op and they did they couldnt afford ot and she had to pay."
One of the biggest medical aid companies in South Africa is Discovery. One of their products is vitality, where they reward customers for a healthy lifestyle... sound familiar? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The uninsured are dying by their thousands at home in the good old US of A.....uncared for and uncounted
The ONLY thing Trump cares about is the economy and blaming anybody and everybody else for his woeful handling of the pandemic"
Clarification. The only thing Trump cares about is the stock market. Not the economy as a whole.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The problem with private medical care is that when institutions see you have private medical they crank up the costs, even the cotton swab you get before an injection gets billed (at a redicilous price). People who incur the costs don't mind because they never see the bill. The medical aid doesn't mind because they just pass their costs on to their customers. Everybody wins except the guy on the street. Decent health care becomes unaffordable.
Then there is the issue of pre existing conditions which aren't covered... "
Indeed. One of the main reasons why a lot of Americans think “we couldn’t afford a socialised healthcare system” is because they genuinely think it costs $50 to alcohol swab before an injection as that is what their healthcare bill says.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?"
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?"
But means tested would mean not everyone would have to pay if you couldnt afford it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?
But means tested would mean not everyone would have to pay if you couldnt afford it?"
You asked what if you can't afford it. So means testing would help those people.
I'm all for the NHS but I'm also not against private healthcare should one be able to afford it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?
But means tested would mean not everyone would have to pay if you couldnt afford it?
You asked what if you can't afford it. So means testing would help those people.
I'm all for the NHS but I'm also not against private healthcare should one be able to afford it"
But if you are means tested doesnt that mean if you can afford to pay..you should do..if you cant you dont?
The op said everyone should have insurance.
I think the issue is..is when parts of the nhs are privatised out..and these companies do not meet up to the level required by the NHS.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?
But means tested would mean not everyone would have to pay if you couldnt afford it?
You asked what if you can't afford it. So means testing would help those people.
I'm all for the NHS but I'm also not against private healthcare should one be able to afford it
But if you are means tested doesnt that mean if you can afford to pay..you should do..if you cant you dont?
The op said everyone should have insurance.
I think the issue is..is when parts of the nhs are privatised out..and these companies do not meet up to the level required by the NHS.
"
If you cant afford it then you should get NHS treatment via means testing. Stop holding onto that one word. He hasn't been back to clarify.
What I'm saying is not about privatisation of the NHS. For those who can afford it, we pay the NHS or private healthcare (our choice). Personally, I'd use the NHS hospitals. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?"
Im not being funny but i pay about £7000 per year to the nhs. I will now not retire untul the age of 70..if i make it that far.
Thats £350 000 in todays money in my life time at a bare minumum.
That should be plenty for all my lifetime hospital visits and sunsequent death by a country mile...i hope  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I seem to remember that the problem that trump has with the nhs is that its buying power has driven down the price they pay for American manufactured drugs to the point that they are cheaper here than in the states. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I seem to remember that the problem that trump has with the nhs is that its buying power has driven down the price they pay for American manufactured drugs to the point that they are cheaper here than in the states."
Spot on there...its all about making money with him and not the long term bigger picture.
And the withholding of vital medical equipment and ppe to states that voted against him is just wrong. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?
Im not being funny but i pay about £7000 per year to the nhs. I will now not retire untul the age of 70..if i make it that far.
Thats £350 000 in todays money in my life time at a bare minumum.
That should be plenty for all my lifetime hospital visits and sunsequent death by a country mile...i hope "
How do you pay 7k per year to the nhs? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?
Im not being funny but i pay about £7000 per year to the nhs. I will now not retire untul the age of 70..if i make it that far.
Thats £350 000 in todays money in my life time at a bare minumum.
That should be plenty for all my lifetime hospital visits and sunsequent death by a country mile...i hope "
But we all pay for everyone's health care..who uses it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I lived in the states for a while. They check if you’re insured on a database like the police use here for your car. No one gets turned away from a hospital as that is against the doctors oath. But yes you get a basic care and you will be billed for it. People do lose houses over unpaid medical bills. "
I've friends in the states who've lost everything trying to pay back their medical bills. Paying back for the rest of their lives.
People should think about this as an alternative to the NHS when at the voting Boothe. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
A bit off topic but just watched Young Turks saying that under normal circumstances 25 people die in their homes every day for whatever reason. That number is now averaging 250 people per day. These deaths are not being recorded as COVID-19 deaths.
They are saying there is a cover up with the numbers to avoid embarrassing Trump. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"A bit off topic but just watched Young Turks saying that under normal circumstances 25 people die in their homes every day for whatever reason. That number is now averaging 250 people per day. These deaths are not being recorded as COVID-19 deaths.
They are saying there is a cover up with the numbers to avoid embarrassing Trump. "
Given that you will be presented with a bill when you go to a hospital in the US (even with insurance you have an excess to pay).... I think this is highly likely that many people will die at home.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
the problem you have is the nhs is always needing more money. this virus has highlighted to us all that in emergencies not enough money is going into it or the supplies, equipment etc will be there.
we cannot keep expecting to pay a national insurance and think this will cover it all.
people say ive paid my stamp etc but that is not just for you, its for everyone.
And that is the problem. we all need different levels of treatment based on our illness and injury.
if you want a fair system then you need to start charging the d*unk who falls over and hurts himself and people who do sports and get injured. why charge them? because they are doing something that wouldn't of required treatment if they didn't do it.
if you get cancer or need an operation then fine that's what the system is paid into for.
people need to get away from the I love my nhs number and start to realise that it is a business like any other but thankfully the government pumps millions into it or hospitals would close and people turned away for simple treatments as it would be deemed not needed.
we are lucky that prescription costs are what they are, we get drugs very cheap and people forget that. that cost has to be met somewhere.
so yes, it is only right for people to have private medical insurance.
if you earn more then you should be able to afford a level of cover.
if you don't then the state covers you.
the cost of the nhs cannot keep going and we must face the reality of paying much much higher taxes or supplement that with a medical insurance policy. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?
Im not being funny but i pay about £7000 per year to the nhs. I will now not retire untul the age of 70..if i make it that far.
Thats £350 000 in todays money in my life time at a bare minumum.
That should be plenty for all my lifetime hospital visits and sunsequent death by a country mile...i hope
But we all pay for everyone's health care..who uses it."
We pay around the same (each) and on top pay around £200 a month extra tax not to use the NHS as Bupa global cover in the UK is taxed as income.
It’s the system we have it’s not good quality compared to other countries you’re more likely to get sick being in hospital or GP waiting rooms as they are not clean but a lot of people have no choice.
Americans simply don’t believe the government has the right to force someone to pay for someone else’s healthcare ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These days nothing is free.
Everyone should have some sort of health insurance on top of the NHS.
Say you cant afford it?
Means tested NHS? Not saying that's my grand plan but could it work?
Im not being funny but i pay about £7000 per year to the nhs. I will now not retire untul the age of 70..if i make it that far.
Thats £350 000 in todays money in my life time at a bare minumum.
That should be plenty for all my lifetime hospital visits and sunsequent death by a country mile...i hope
But we all pay for everyone's health care..who uses it.
We pay around the same (each) and on top pay around £200 a month extra tax not to use the NHS as Bupa global cover in the UK is taxed as income.
It’s the system we have it’s not good quality compared to other countries you’re more likely to get sick being in hospital or GP waiting rooms as they are not clean but a lot of people have no choice.
Americans simply don’t believe the government has the right to force someone to pay for someone else’s healthcare ! "
that is right. only pay when you become sick.
you can have cover. but many will risk thinking they will be ok. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
From recollection, if you decide to have a baby, it costs you around £3k in treatment but not sure what it includes.
USA is just very expensive, gotta pay for higher education, health care, retirement care, and just about anything that we take for granted over here. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The problem with private medical care is that when institutions see you have private medical they crank up the costs, even the cotton swab you get before an injection gets billed (at a redicilous price). People who incur the costs don't mind because they never see the bill. The medical aid doesn't mind because they just pass their costs on to their customers. Everybody wins except the guy on the street. Decent health care becomes unaffordable.
Then there is the issue of pre existing conditions which aren't covered... "
Hospitals, labs, diagnostic centers and Physicians have contracts with insurance companies. If you’re in a hospital that’s contracted with, let’s say Aetna and you’re admitted for a 3 day stay due to appendicitis. For that diagnosis, surgery and recovery, your bill could easily be $15,000. But because that hospital is contracted with your insurance you are billed your co pay, the hospital is paid their contracted rate and the balance is written off.
A provider could charge $100.00 for an aspirin but if the contracted reimbursement rate would be $2.00 that’s what’s paid and the balance is a write off.
You may receive a bill for 10, 20 or 30k but it depends on your insurance, the contract written and what a patients deductible or co insurance is. Even with state insurance or Medicare the contracted rate applies.
If a patient is admitted who is uninsured, social services steps in and coverage is found for that patient.
So, to respond to your statement regarding “ cranking up the cost” that is against CMS and HHS guidelines and carries heavy penalties. The provider is at risk of losing their insurance contracts, fined or both. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"From recollection, if you decide to have a baby, it costs you around £3k in treatment but not sure what it includes.
USA is just very expensive, gotta pay for higher education, health care, retirement care, and just about anything that we take for granted over here. "
If I rememebr right,
If an ambulance has to take you from your home to the hospital when you are pregnant about to have a baby the cost of transport alone is $6k. Yes
And the cost of individually rapped sour throat sweet are $10 each. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Right now they way it works.
If you have insurance you get a cosy bed to die in.
If you don't have insurance you get a bed.
But they make their money off it.
Would not surprise me. "
Where are you getting this information. Just curious.
I for one would love to have an insurance system such as the NHS here. I have private insurance that’s extremely expensive . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
There was an item on one of the major TV channels the other day, with health experts in New York City, comparing their systems with our NHS.
In short, they were unanimous in their envy of our NHS. In contrast, they've tens of thousands of people in NYC alone, plus unknown numbers across their country who don't have medical insurance, and thus, will suffer during this pandemic.
I've British friends who returned to the UK 18 months ago to retire after running an Inn, in Vermont, USA, for over 15 years. They couldn't afford medical insurance, so prayed that they'd stay as accident free or without illness as possible. Any medical Bill's had to come out of profits from the business.
Unfortunately, she fell ill with gynaecological issues and needed surgery. The cost of the drugs & meds incl those to take home afterwards, came to over £3000 (equivalent).
In total, it cost them over £17,000 (equivalent) for her hospitalisation, surgery, treatments and so on for 9 days.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Right now they way it works.
If you have insurance you get a cosy bed to die in.
If you don't have insurance you get a bed.
But they make their money off it.
Would not surprise me.
Where are you getting this information. Just curious.
I for one would love to have an insurance system such as the NHS here. I have private insurance that’s extremely expensive ."
That is how the health system works.
If a paitent is addmited to hospital via A&E the does not have insurance. Hospital don't operate.
They get the person stable that's it.
People don't realise what a shit system.
If you want to know more what a film called John Q, it showed the truth of the American health system. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I spoke with a black man in Central Park in Feb before this all broke he was painting portraits trying to make a few quid was a recovering alcoholic . Basically your insurance is governed by your income the more you earn and pay for it the better cover you get plus you get taken to the better facilities more equipment better staffing etc . If your poor and unemployed and on low income you get taken to the crap hospitals less equipment overcrowding fewer staff etc "
Spot on and if you are poor you are limited to what kind of treatments you are covered for as well.
A lot of people get health insurance from their work and some even offer health insurance for the employees family members.
But if you make lots of money you see fine. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Right now they way it works.
If you have insurance you get a cosy bed to die in.
If you don't have insurance you get a bed.
But they make their money off it.
Would not surprise me.
Where are you getting this information. Just curious.
I for one would love to have an insurance system such as the NHS here. I have private insurance that’s extremely expensive .
That is how the health system works.
If a paitent is addmited to hospital via A&E the does not have insurance. Hospital don't operate.
They get the person stable that's it.
People don't realise what a shit system.
If you want to know more what a film called John Q, it showed the truth of the American health system. "
It seems impossible to believe that a major 1st world country could have a system like this.
Their incredulity when Obama tried to introduce his (slightly) fairer system was unbelievable, I recall some saying our health system was akin to communism, that's how far away they are from a universal health system based on need rather than cash. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Right now they way it works.
If you have insurance you get a cosy bed to die in.
If you don't have insurance you get a bed.
But they make their money off it.
Would not surprise me.
Where are you getting this information. Just curious.
I for one would love to have an insurance system such as the NHS here. I have private insurance that’s extremely expensive .
That is how the health system works.
If a paitent is addmited to hospital via A&E the does not have insurance. Hospital don't operate.
They get the person stable that's it.
People don't realise what a shit system.
If you want to know more what a film called John Q, it showed the truth of the American health system.
It seems impossible to believe that a major 1st world country could have a system like this.
Their incredulity when Obama tried to introduce his (slightly) fairer system was unbelievable, I recall some saying our health system was akin to communism, that's how far away they are from a universal health system based on need rather than cash."
Yeah I remember that.
Normall people were kicking off about a system that would benefit them
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"Right now they way it works.
If you have insurance you get a cosy bed to die in.
If you don't have insurance you get a bed.
But they make their money off it.
Would not surprise me.
Where are you getting this information. Just curious.
I for one would love to have an insurance system such as the NHS here. I have private insurance that’s extremely expensive .
That is how the health system works.
If a paitent is addmited to hospital via A&E the does not have insurance. Hospital don't operate.
They get the person stable that's it.
People don't realise what a shit system.
If you want to know more what a film called John Q, it showed the truth of the American health system.
It seems impossible to believe that a major 1st world country could have a system like this.
Their incredulity when Obama tried to introduce his (slightly) fairer system was unbelievable, I recall some saying our health system was akin to communism, that's how far away they are from a universal health system based on need rather than cash.
Yeah I remember that.
Normall people were kicking off about a system that would benefit them
"
You mean like Brexit? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Right now they way it works.
If you have insurance you get a cosy bed to die in.
If you don't have insurance you get a bed.
But they make their money off it.
Would not surprise me.
Where are you getting this information. Just curious.
I for one would love to have an insurance system such as the NHS here. I have private insurance that’s extremely expensive .
That is how the health system works.
If a paitent is addmited to hospital via A&E the does not have insurance. Hospital don't operate.
They get the person stable that's it.
People don't realise what a shit system.
If you want to know more what a film called John Q, it showed the truth of the American health system.
It seems impossible to believe that a major 1st world country could have a system like this.
Their incredulity when Obama tried to introduce his (slightly) fairer system was unbelievable, I recall some saying our health system was akin to communism, that's how far away they are from a universal health system based on need rather than cash.
Yeah I remember that.
Normall people were kicking off about a system that would benefit them
You mean like Brexit? "
No totally different.
And completely irrelevant. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"Right now they way it works.
If you have insurance you get a cosy bed to die in.
If you don't have insurance you get a bed.
But they make their money off it.
Would not surprise me.
Where are you getting this information. Just curious.
I for one would love to have an insurance system such as the NHS here. I have private insurance that’s extremely expensive .
That is how the health system works.
If a paitent is addmited to hospital via A&E the does not have insurance. Hospital don't operate.
They get the person stable that's it.
People don't realise what a shit system.
If you want to know more what a film called John Q, it showed the truth of the American health system.
It seems impossible to believe that a major 1st world country could have a system like this.
Their incredulity when Obama tried to introduce his (slightly) fairer system was unbelievable, I recall some saying our health system was akin to communism, that's how far away they are from a universal health system based on need rather than cash.
Yeah I remember that.
Normall people were kicking off about a system that would benefit them
You mean like Brexit?
No totally different.
And completely irrelevant."
Perhaps I picked a bad example, but there is a demographic that fear change and automatically assume it to be a bad thing....despite (some) evidence to the contrary |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Right now they way it works.
If you have insurance you get a cosy bed to die in.
If you don't have insurance you get a bed.
But they make their money off it.
Would not surprise me.
Where are you getting this information. Just curious.
I for one would love to have an insurance system such as the NHS here. I have private insurance that’s extremely expensive .
That is how the health system works.
If a paitent is addmited to hospital via A&E the does not have insurance. Hospital don't operate.
They get the person stable that's it.
People don't realise what a shit system.
If you want to know more what a film called John Q, it showed the truth of the American health system.
It seems impossible to believe that a major 1st world country could have a system like this.
Their incredulity when Obama tried to introduce his (slightly) fairer system was unbelievable, I recall some saying our health system was akin to communism, that's how far away they are from a universal health system based on need rather than cash.
Yeah I remember that.
Normall people were kicking off about a system that would benefit them
You mean like Brexit?
No totally different.
And completely irrelevant.
Perhaps I picked a bad example, but there is a demographic that fear change and automatically assume it to be a bad thing....despite (some) evidence to the contrary "
I think the demographic you are talking about wanted change but its nothing to do with this topic.
I think in america they were led into thinking that free healthcare actually amounted to communism and were dead against it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The problem in the USA is that they don't have a health service, or even a health system - they have a market.
If poor people die, if middle class people lose their homes because that's what the insurance system demands; so be it.
Be thankful you don't live there. The UK has its faults, for sure; but even our current government - the very embodiment of the worst the Tory Party has to offer - were not prepared to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of us on the altar of capitalism.
It's encouraging. As is the one, definite silver lining to Covid 19 - the NHS is now Tory-proof and Trump-proof. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The problem in the USA is that they don't have a health service, or even a health system - they have a market.
If poor people die, if middle class people lose their homes because that's what the insurance system demands; so be it.
Be thankful you don't live there. The UK has its faults, for sure; but even our current government - the very embodiment of the worst the Tory Party has to offer - were not prepared to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of us on the altar of capitalism.
It's encouraging. As is the one, definite silver lining to Covid 19 - the NHS is now Tory-proof and Trump-proof."
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
I think in america they were led into thinking that free healthcare actually amounted to communism and were dead against it."
there were a couple of things going on...
irony being if you ask people about the Affordable Care Act.. and the individual bits in it... you get a lot of positive reaction...
if you put it in a bill... again positive reaction!
you call it "obamacare"... and thats when it kicks off.....
the problem republicans have in red states is that for the first time it gives a lot of their voters coverage that would never happen before.... and it one of those things that now you have let people have it.... its hard to then take it away!
so for the last 8 years they basically ran on "we want to get rid of it!" but never came up with anything to replace it with.... both when they were in opposite, and now under trump!
and thats why deomcrats win the healthcare arguement every single time!
so what the republicans are doing are chipping away at it piece by piece (basically gutting it from the inside)
for example... the individual mandate..
so part of this was "well if we are going to provide this at a discounted rate, anyone who didn't have insurance had to buy it or there would be a fine!
this was take out by the republicans.....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used. "
Unfortunately, the trade deals that the USA signs leave them with the power and the little country with next to none. Prices the NHS pay now are often lower than those companies charge in the USA and the drug companies want that stopping. A trade deal would favour what the US industries want. UK institutions and any conflicting systems here would be overruled. It's worse for the UK. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"what he actually wants to for American drugs companies to have access to the NHS. It’s good it means we have more companies to source from and should lower costs.
American drugs companies are more .expensive
But as we have a monopolies law in this country there is competition. If they are more expensive they don’t get used.
Unfortunately, the trade deals that the USA signs leave them with the power and the little country with next to none. Prices the NHS pay now are often lower than those companies charge in the USA and the drug companies want that stopping. A trade deal would favour what the US industries want. UK institutions and any conflicting systems here would be overruled. It's worse for the UK. "
Wow where did you get that detail from? Any sources? We would be keen to know more. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Yes but we don’t have to buy them. The whole point is at the moment the United States medical industry has very little market in Europe. The EU keeps all drugs trade within itself. What he wants is a way to expand the market. We aren’t tied into American drugs only but they can then trade over here. If too much they don’t get purchased. Unless they have a drug that no one else has, until it’s patent runs out then everyone can manufacture it. "
its that very last sentence that is the key....
its not because the EU want to keep the drugs market to itself! what the us want to do is increase the patent length for drugs created....
lets use "viagra" as an example...
the patent length for pfizer, who made viagra, was 20 years... so no one could buy that specific product without pfizer determining what that price would be
then in 2014... the patent was up... and thats when other people could make and sell that product, so why would people then what to buy that product from pfizer when anyone else could make it and sell it at a cheaper rate!
the NHS (and other socialised health systems) can bulk buy... but they do will also buy older drugs that will do the same job because they tend to be cheaper because they can be bought from either the original producer or they can use a generic alternative...
competition vs exclusivity
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
The other thing that is unmentioned in this thread is ideology. So many American have a near genetic opposition the idea of someone else getting the benefit of their taxes. So the idea of shared risk or costs is completely contrary to their creed of individualism. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The other thing that is unmentioned in this thread is ideology. So many American have a near genetic opposition the idea of someone else getting the benefit of their taxes. So the idea of shared risk or costs is completely contrary to their creed of individualism."
Good point |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
