FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swingers Chat > Domination
Domination
Jump to: Newest in thread
I adore BDSM and being Dominated, but I am very much a natural submissive. It’s a part of me and who I am.
Nothing feels quite as right and fulfilling as relinquishing control and submitting to the will of another.
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I strive for global domination!
I’d let you dominate me, daddy "
I'm sure we can arrange something. I've got some free after I've taken over Denmark. I'll be in touch  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I have Dom tendencies and have experienced different aspects of it, I'm not dependant on it being applied in each potential meet, if someone isn't into it, I'm happy to leave my Dom hat at the door. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have Dom tendencies and have experienced different aspects of it, I'm not dependant on it being applied in each potential meet, if someone isn't into it, I'm happy to leave my Dom hat at the door. "
Can I stamp on your hat in my heels? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have Dom tendencies and have experienced different aspects of it, I'm not dependant on it being applied in each potential meet, if someone isn't into it, I'm happy to leave my Dom hat at the door.
Can I stamp on your hat in my heels?"
The hat will be staying on when i walk through your door, it would also be difficult for you to stomp on anything when on your knees.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have Dom tendencies and have experienced different aspects of it, I'm not dependant on it being applied in each potential meet, if someone isn't into it, I'm happy to leave my Dom hat at the door.
Can I stamp on your hat in my heels?
The hat will be staying on when i walk through your door, it would also be difficult for you to stomp on anything when on your knees. "
Only on my knees so I can back up onto your face. Your hat is history... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place 
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?  "
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass "
Slap away as I lock your cock cage  . Hmmm better stop now |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now "
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back "
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained "
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained "
No? Keep thinking that... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that... "
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I'm a very physical session Dom, think Viking ravager with a well stocked fun-bag...I bluddy luv it!
Always happy to chat, but not into endlessly debating bdsm dynamics or playing tedious mind games. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty. "
Oh ye of little faith... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty.
Oh ye of little faith..."
Faith will not help you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty.
Oh ye of little faith...
Faith will not help you "
Nor you. Remember that when you scream for me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty.
Oh ye of little faith...
Faith will not help you
Nor you. Remember that when you scream for me. "
I won't scream, but I may raise my voice with a stern tone |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I(miss)love to be dominated by inked, like to do as im told but with women i can be quite dominant. If a lady wants to lay there like a good little pillow queen id be a happy bunny with my head buried deep |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Dominatrix and submissive is whom we are . We never switch . As for " level " its a work in progress , saying that as we have both very defined roles , and discussed and are completely at ease with our dynamic i would say we have passed the first steps , and are climbing the ladder together with enjoyment |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty.
Oh ye of little faith...
Faith will not help you
Nor you. Remember that when you scream for me.
I won't scream, but I may raise my voice with a stern tone "
And at this point AngelEyes will walk in and piss herself laughing |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty.
Oh ye of little faith...
Faith will not help you
Nor you. Remember that when you scream for me.
I won't scream, but I may raise my voice with a stern tone
And at this point AngelEyes will walk in and piss herself laughing "
And spank the pair of you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty.
Oh ye of little faith...
Faith will not help you
Nor you. Remember that when you scream for me.
I won't scream, but I may raise my voice with a stern tone
And at this point AngelEyes will walk in and piss herself laughing "
She will, but it won't be long until she is also on her knees, next to you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty.
Oh ye of little faith...
Faith will not help you
Nor you. Remember that when you scream for me.
I won't scream, but I may raise my voice with a stern tone
And at this point AngelEyes will walk in and piss herself laughing
She will, but it won't be long until she is also on her knees, next to you "
In your dreams darling  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And that's when I've told you to back up on my face, my hat is firmly in place
Really? Who decides when you can breathe then?
I do, obviously, with a slap to your ass
Slap away as I lock your cock cage . Hmmm better stop now
How can you lock anything with your hands cuffed behind your back
Mine cuffed? Oh no. You chained
Haha.. We both know I won't be chained
No? Keep thinking that...
I don't need to think it when it's a certainty.
Oh ye of little faith...
Faith will not help you
Nor you. Remember that when you scream for me.
I won't scream, but I may raise my voice with a stern tone
And at this point AngelEyes will walk in and piss herself laughing
She will, but it won't be long until she is also on her knees, next to you
In your dreams darling "
Only until it becomes reality |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *latinumkittenWoman
over a year ago
from Home Counties to Middle Earth |
I absolutely LOVE psychological power play. With the right person, I can be very sub. However, not before I've pushed every one of his buttons and seen him undeterred from pushing mine - even then I may have a go at topping, I just can't help myself |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I absolutely LOVE psychological power play. With the right person, I can be very sub. However, not before I've pushed every one of his buttons and seen him undeterred from pushing mine - even then I may have a go at topping, I just can't help myself "
That's all part of the fun The sparring, probing and exploring boundries mentally. There's so much more pleasure gained from some one who tests you to see if you are worth her submission.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
I attended a swinging event over the weekend and it underscored to me the differences between 'being dominant' and the modern interpretation of 'being a dominant'. At the event there were a number of dominant men, but they were not dominants. What do I mean by that? The usual health warning applies that people interpret concepts in bdsm differently.
In regard to being a dominant althougb there is an expectation of the dominant leading and controlling, there is also an expectation of the dominant looking after the mental and physical welfare of the sub in the way the sub requires.
There is an understanding that being a dominant is more than an opportunity to obtain sexual gratification. The skills the dominant are secondary to the creation of a safe and supporting environment. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I absolutely LOVE psychological power play. With the right person, I can be very sub. However, not before I've pushed every one of his buttons and seen him undeterred from pushing mine - even then I may have a go at topping, I just can't help myself
That's all part of the fun The sparring, probing and exploring boundries mentally. There's so much more pleasure gained from some one who tests you to see if you are worth her submission.
"
Its very individual, but whilst happy for some exchange, interplay, discussion etc...if theres more blahblah than thwack thwack I start gazing out the window like a bored school kid.
And its the same for most I've ever played with.
Each to their own I guess. As long as its all safe and consensual there no right or wrong, just what's right or wrong for those playing together. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *an_LexaCouple
over a year ago
Sunderland |
I will always try to dominate, although it’s not always what I want. It would take someone strong willed for me to submit. I need to be able to “feel” that they are persistent and consistent in their intent, otherwise I lose faith pretty quickly that I’m safe in their hands.
Saying that, I do enjoy the strength of my own dominance at times and at those times there will be no changing.
I’m completely switcheroo, depends on the individual |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I have Dom tendencies and have experienced different aspects of it, I'm not dependant on it being applied in each potential meet, if someone isn't into it, I'm happy to leave my Dom hat at the door.
Can I stamp on your hat in my heels?
The hat will be staying on when i walk through your door, it would also be difficult for you to stomp on anything when on your knees.
Only on my knees so I can back up onto your face. Your hat is history..."
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
I'm a switch. Although generally it's quite specific.
Submissive / masochistic with men.
Dominant / sadistic with women.
It's not always the case but it's very very rare for it to not be so. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm a switch. Although generally it's quite specific.
Submissive / masochistic with men.
Dominant / sadistic with women.
It's not always the case but it's very very rare for it to not be so. "
Natural roles for most fem-switches.
Q. Would you say your 50/50 sub/Domme? Most fem-switches I've met are prob 70% sub. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm a switch. Although generally it's quite specific.
Submissive / masochistic with men.
Dominant / sadistic with women.
It's not always the case but it's very very rare for it to not be so.
Natural roles for most fem-switches.
Q. Would you say your 50/50 sub/Domme? Most fem-switches I've met are prob 70% sub. "
Really? I'd say more 80% Domme and 20% scene sub for the majority of ladies I know active and switch based
With bratty type switches even less sub. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm a switch. Although generally it's quite specific.
Submissive / masochistic with men.
Dominant / sadistic with women.
It's not always the case but it's very very rare for it to not be so.
Natural roles for most fem-switches.
Q. Would you say your 50/50 sub/Domme? Most fem-switches I've met are prob 70% sub.
Really? I'd say more 80% Domme and 20% scene sub for the majority of ladies I know active and switch based
With bratty type switches even less sub."
Now that is def not what I expected to hear, or has been my experience.
Wonder if we're both just attracting like minded matches? Could be why our experiences are so different...thats really got me thinking... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm a switch. Although generally it's quite specific.
Submissive / masochistic with men.
Dominant / sadistic with women.
It's not always the case but it's very very rare for it to not be so.
Natural roles for most fem-switches.
Q. Would you say your 50/50 sub/Domme? Most fem-switches I've met are prob 70% sub.
Really? I'd say more 80% Domme and 20% scene sub for the majority of ladies I know active and switch based
With bratty type switches even less sub.
Now that is def not what I expected to hear, or has been my experience.
Wonder if we're both just attracting like minded matches? Could be why our experiences are so different...thats really got me thinking... "
I run an event in the Midlands and bounce around Manchester a fair amount too. I'm submissive but rig. I rarely go to gender specific events so I'm not looking at Domme lead events.
It's certainly a different point of view and one worth observing.
Also one I'll be discussing with friends |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"I'm a switch. Although generally it's quite specific.
Submissive / masochistic with men.
Dominant / sadistic with women.
It's not always the case but it's very very rare for it to not be so.
Natural roles for most fem-switches.
Q. Would you say your 50/50 sub/Domme? Most fem-switches I've met are prob 70% sub.
Really? I'd say more 80% Domme and 20% scene sub for the majority of ladies I know active and switch based
With bratty type switches even less sub."
I'd probably say it's more like 20/80 too... When someone pushes my submissive button they can really push it. But I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been submissive. Generally people have no idea where the button is let alone what to do with it. At best people get brat, generally they get masochist Domme. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm a switch. Although generally it's quite specific.
Submissive / masochistic with men.
Dominant / sadistic with women.
It's not always the case but it's very very rare for it to not be so.
Natural roles for most fem-switches.
Q. Would you say your 50/50 sub/Domme? Most fem-switches I've met are prob 70% sub.
Really? I'd say more 80% Domme and 20% scene sub for the majority of ladies I know active and switch based
With bratty type switches even less sub.
I'd probably say it's more like 20/80 too... When someone pushes my submissive button they can really push it. But I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been submissive. Generally people have no idea where the button is let alone what to do with it. At best people get brat, generally they get masochist Domme. "
Why not just tell them what your 'button' is, see if they want to/can push it?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I attended a swinging event over the weekend and it underscored to me the differences between 'being dominant' and the modern interpretation of 'being a dominant'. At the event there were a number of dominant men, but they were not dominants. What do I mean by that? The usual health warning applies that people interpret concepts in bdsm differently.
In regard to being a dominant althougb there is an expectation of the dominant leading and controlling, there is also an expectation of the dominant looking after the mental and physical welfare of the sub in the way the sub requires.
There is an understanding that being a dominant is more than an opportunity to obtain sexual gratification. The skills the dominant are secondary to the creation of a safe and supporting environment."
Absolutely this
There will always be guys looking for quick thrills... But for me and many other Dom/Domme types, the responsibility is real.. Safety, fun, aftercare..
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Being a submissive, I love Dominant men especially when they are "true Dominants" within a D/s dynamics!
On the vanilla side, their just dicks/bitchs who haven't got a clue how to be a respectable Dominants their just " bullies" at the end of the day!
Speaking from experience  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I attended a swinging event over the weekend and it underscored to me the differences between 'being dominant' and the modern interpretation of 'being a dominant'. At the event there were a number of dominant men, but they were not dominants. What do I mean by that? The usual health warning applies that people interpret concepts in bdsm differently.
In regard to being a dominant althougb there is an expectation of the dominant leading and controlling, there is also an expectation of the dominant looking after the mental and physical welfare of the sub in the way the sub requires.
There is an understanding that being a dominant is more than an opportunity to obtain sexual gratification. The skills the dominant are secondary to the creation of a safe and supporting environment.
Absolutely this
There will always be guys looking for quick thrills... But for me and many other Dom/Domme types, the responsibility is real.. Safety, fun, aftercare..
"
Whether you're session or lifestyle Dom/Domme, a Master/Mistress or Owner also affects the dynamic and changes the definition.
But I agree that regardless of which type of D/s you enjoy...trust, safety and care are always key.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
My mindset in a D/s environment is entirely submissive, Dom is just not me and does nothing but make me feel uncomfortable and awkward - BUT for me to "be" truly submissive, I have to "feel" submissive to someone and that is a very rare thing (in 20 odd years of having an interest it's truly happened less than a handful of times).
That said I can "kink play" with the best of them but that is very much from a mutual level standpoint where I am just as capable of partaking in activities normally associated with a Dom as I am taking a more traditionally submissive role - but in that situation it's not truly about D/s to me, more just mutual exploration and pleasure |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Being a submissive, I love Dominant men especially when they are "true Dominants" within a D/s dynamics!
On the vanilla side, their just dicks/bitchs who haven't got a clue how to be a respectable Dominants their just " bullies" at the end of the day!
Speaking from experience "
Totally agree with this...it not just about the Dom it has to be totally pleasurable both ways and there must be an understanding and trust....But if the dynamics are right then it can be explosive.....Speaking from experience |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I’m a switch, but only ever been submissive to my Dom. Totally submissive to him. It’s the man and the dynamics x
Dominant with my ex partner and have been on here xx |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *urvySub87Woman
over a year ago
Near Wellingborough |
A dom should be the perfect mix of forceful and sensual. He should "make pain pleasurable" and the sexual needs of the sub should be equal to if not greater than the doms as s/he relishes in the subs responses and reactions to their every touch,spank and tease.
That's what I like anyway |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"I'm a switch. Although generally it's quite specific.
Submissive / masochistic with men.
Dominant / sadistic with women.
It's not always the case but it's very very rare for it to not be so.
Natural roles for most fem-switches.
Q. Would you say your 50/50 sub/Domme? Most fem-switches I've met are prob 70% sub.
Really? I'd say more 80% Domme and 20% scene sub for the majority of ladies I know active and switch based
With bratty type switches even less sub.
I'd probably say it's more like 20/80 too... When someone pushes my submissive button they can really push it. But I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been submissive. Generally people have no idea where the button is let alone what to do with it. At best people get brat, generally they get masochist Domme.
Why not just tell them what your 'button' is, see if they want to/can push it?
"
Because it's not the same button... It's all to do with the connection and dynamic I have with someone.
What clicks and makes me instantly submissive with one man, might make me react really differently from someone else. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"
Because it's not the same button... It's all to do with the connection and dynamic I have with someone.
What clicks and makes me instantly submissive with one man, might make me react really differently from someone else. "
Can totally relate to this - and have often thought that in every day life we have a mix of people that we "feel" submissive to, or dominant towards or on a level playing field with - and *this* is no different - the vast majority of people I encounter I'm on a level playing field with, very rarely will I feel significantly one way or the other to either of the other extremes, but it's a tangible sensation when it happens |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone "
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship. "
I'm a switch. With 20 years experience in the scene and many years of running workshops (including ones on negotiation)
It is rare for me to feel submissive to someone and if I don't, no amount of talking about it is going to change that.
I agree that people can be reluctant to communicate but then that is not only the role of a dominant to encourage and help that, it's also a failing of the community as a whole. There have been schools of thought where people say things like...
"If they don't know they aren't dominant"
Or
"You were a bad submissive because you expressed what you wanted and that's not being submissive"
My actual biggest bug bear is about SM and how many submissives and masochists fail to take responsibility for their own safety.
If you're going to let someone restrain you (or hit you etc...) You have the ultimate responsibility to insure your consent is informed. That you are aware of the risks and that of you spot something unsafe, you can call it out. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
I'm a switch. With 20 years experience in the scene and many years of running workshops (including ones on negotiation)
It is rare for me to feel submissive to someone and if I don't, no amount of talking about it is going to change that.
I agree that people can be reluctant to communicate but then that is not only the role of a dominant to encourage and help that, it's also a failing of the community as a whole. There have been schools of thought where people say things like...
"If they don't know they aren't dominant"
Or
"You were a bad submissive because you expressed what you wanted and that's not being submissive"
My actual biggest bug bear is about SM and how many submissives and masochists fail to take responsibility for their own safety.
If you're going to let someone restrain you (or hit you etc...) You have the ultimate responsibility to insure your consent is informed. That you are aware of the risks and that of you spot something unsafe, you can call it out. "
Yep, I've tried to encourage conversations in the past and had all that.
'I shouldn't have to tell a Dom how to Dom me' bs...ridiculous.
Were all human first and none of us are psychic. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship. "
You need to engage in those conversations though or how else is everyone supposed to know the boundaries or what each other actually likes. It is supposed to be enjoyable for both participants |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
You need to engage in those conversations though or how else is everyone supposed to know the boundaries or what each other actually likes. It is supposed to be enjoyable for both participants "
Spot on - as ever two-way communication is the key here.
To pick up on the point very eloquently made by Lady Jayne here I'd venture so far to say that if a submissive is not capable of at the very least expressing limits and boundaries and desires they are neither informed or able to consent |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
I'm a switch. With 20 years experience in the scene and many years of running workshops (including ones on negotiation)
It is rare for me to feel submissive to someone and if I don't, no amount of talking about it is going to change that.
I agree that people can be reluctant to communicate but then that is not only the role of a dominant to encourage and help that, it's also a failing of the community as a whole. There have been schools of thought where people say things like...
"If they don't know they aren't dominant"
Or
"You were a bad submissive because you expressed what you wanted and that's not being submissive"
My actual biggest bug bear is about SM and how many submissives and masochists fail to take responsibility for their own safety.
If you're going to let someone restrain you (or hit you etc...) You have the ultimate responsibility to insure your consent is informed. That you are aware of the risks and that of you spot something unsafe, you can call it out.
Yep, I've tried to encourage conversations in the past and had all that.
'I shouldn't have to tell a Dom how to Dom me' bs...ridiculous.
Were all human first and none of us are psychic."
Those are the subs to be avoided like the plague.
This is why I find the discussions about "True doms" and "True subs" are wrong. D/S relationships are largely individual, and any dom with a one size fits all approach and will not enter discussions or negotiations because they are a 'true dom" is likely to run into trouble. In the same way a sub with an 'all doms know what to do' approach and will not discuss or negotiate is likely at best to be disappointed, and at worst to be badly screwed over in a number of ways.
Of course there is the point that someone starting will not know what they like. Kink is a very deep rabbit hole with many warrens off to the side. Some of these warrens contain sexual and or abusive predators or people from a different plane of reality. This is why newbies both doms and subs need to educate themselves or need educating on safety and appropriate behaviour.
I would add it is possible to jump in with both feet and eyes shut and have a good time. However there are too many horror stories of scenes/relationships going wrong to suggest that is not a sound approach.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship. "
PRICK, Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink. I stopped using ssc/rack and the others in favour of this one.
If anyone within a dynamic refuses to communicate then for me, it's an end point.
I'm just as responsible for the mental and physical health of the Dom/sadist/top as I am for my own. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
I'm a switch. With 20 years experience in the scene and many years of running workshops (including ones on negotiation)
It is rare for me to feel submissive to someone and if I don't, no amount of talking about it is going to change that.
I agree that people can be reluctant to communicate but then that is not only the role of a dominant to encourage and help that, it's also a failing of the community as a whole. There have been schools of thought where people say things like...
"If they don't know they aren't dominant"
Or
"You were a bad submissive because you expressed what you wanted and that's not being submissive"
My actual biggest bug bear is about SM and how many submissives and masochists fail to take responsibility for their own safety.
If you're going to let someone restrain you (or hit you etc...) You have the ultimate responsibility to insure your consent is informed. That you are aware of the risks and that of you spot something unsafe, you can call it out.
Yep, I've tried to encourage conversations in the past and had all that.
'I shouldn't have to tell a Dom how to Dom me' bs...ridiculous.
Were all human first and none of us are psychic.
Those are the subs to be avoided like the plague.
This is why I find the discussions about "True doms" and "True subs" are wrong. D/S relationships are largely individual, and any dom with a one size fits all approach and will not enter discussions or negotiations because they are a 'true dom" is likely to run into trouble. In the same way a sub with an 'all doms know what to do' approach and will not discuss or negotiate is likely at best to be disappointed, and at worst to be badly screwed over in a number of ways.
Of course there is the point that someone starting will not know what they like. Kink is a very deep rabbit hole with many warrens off to the side. Some of these warrens contain sexual and or abusive predators or people from a different plane of reality. This is why newbies both doms and subs need to educate themselves or need educating on safety and appropriate behaviour.
I would add it is possible to jump in with both feet and eyes shut and have a good time. However there are too many horror stories of scenes/relationships going wrong to suggest that is not a sound approach.
"
Sorry for the long thread...
Sage words from both of the other contributors above...and really, *really* appreciated.
I wish all the subs being brainwashed into thinking that 'Real Doms' never discuss and 'Real subs' never guide their Dom would read this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"
Sorry for the long thread...
Sage words from both of the other contributors above...and really, *really* appreciated.
I wish all the subs being brainwashed into thinking that 'Real Doms' never discuss and 'Real subs' never guide their Dom would read this. "
That applies just as equally to Doms that think they know it all, or their way is the only way - the situation works both ways round.
As I said earlier the real key here is open and honest two way communication where it is remembered by all involved that communication includes both speaking AND listening |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Sorry for the long thread...
Sage words from both of the other contributors above...and really, *really* appreciated.
I wish all the subs being brainwashed into thinking that 'Real Doms' never discuss and 'Real subs' never guide their Dom would read this.
That applies just as equally to Doms that think they know it all, or their way is the only way - the situation works both ways round.
As I said earlier the real key here is open and honest two way communication where it is remembered by all involved that communication includes both speaking AND listening "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"I love being sub my limits depend on the Domme "
Nope. No they don't. Not one bit.
This is exactly what I was taking about.
Would happily let a 'domme' remove a limb?
Knowingly give you an std?
Break a bone?
A submissive is personally responsible for their own safety and their own limits at all times.
You have limits. Don't lie to yourself or others by pretending otherwise. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
PRICK, Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink. I stopped using ssc/rack and the others in favour of this one.
If anyone within a dynamic refuses to communicate then for me, it's an end point.
I'm just as responsible for the mental and physical health of the Dom/sadist/top as I am for my own. "
That's interesting, though invested I'd never feel responsible for another adults mental health, as long as all is discussed, consensual and I'm not intentionally trying to hurt them... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I love being sub my limits depend on the Domme
Nope. No they don't. Not one bit.
This is exactly what I was taking about.
Would happily let a 'domme' remove a limb?
Knowingly give you an std?
Break a bone?
A submissive is personally responsible for their own safety and their own limits at all times.
You have limits. Don't lie to yourself or others by pretending otherwise. "
Spot on...Masochism isn't lunacy...simple as that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
PRICK, Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink. I stopped using ssc/rack and the others in favour of this one.
If anyone within a dynamic refuses to communicate then for me, it's an end point.
I'm just as responsible for the mental and physical health of the Dom/sadist/top as I am for my own.
That's interesting, though invested I'd never feel responsible for another adults mental health, as long as all is discussed, consensual and I'm not intentionally trying to hurt them..."
I think I’m getting this D/s play wrong.
To me it is them, not I.
As I say, perhaps I come from a different perspective. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Sorry for the long thread...
Sage words from both of the other contributors above...and really, *really* appreciated.
I wish all the subs being brainwashed into thinking that 'Real Doms' never discuss and 'Real subs' never guide their Dom would read this.
That applies just as equally to Doms that think they know it all, or their way is the only way - the situation works both ways round.
As I said earlier the real key here is open and honest two way communication where it is remembered by all involved that communication includes both speaking AND listening "
There does seem to be plenty subs that will not discuss what they want and go with a true dom should know attitude. I think possibly alot of this stems from the 50 shades crap and the idea that the dom controls everything and instinctively knows what to do!
On the other hand, had plenty discussions with so called dommes who dont care what your needs are as a sub. The attitude of you will do as told no matter what which always sets alarm bells ringing. Everyone has limits and discussion before hand has to be part of it in my opinion. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"
Sorry for the long thread...
Sage words from both of the other contributors above...and really, *really* appreciated.
I wish all the subs being brainwashed into thinking that 'Real Doms' never discuss and 'Real subs' never guide their Dom would read this.
That applies just as equally to Doms that think they know it all, or their way is the only way - the situation works both ways round.
As I said earlier the real key here is open and honest two way communication where it is remembered by all involved that communication includes both speaking AND listening
There does seem to be plenty subs that will not discuss what they want and go with a true dom should know attitude. I think possibly alot of this stems from the 50 shades crap and the idea that the dom controls everything and instinctively knows what to do!
On the other hand, had plenty discussions with so called dommes who dont care what your needs are as a sub. The attitude of you will do as told no matter what which always sets alarm bells ringing. Everyone has limits and discussion before hand has to be part of it in my opinion."
Ultimately it comes down to being informed in able to be able to consent - on both sides of the coin, and for some the level of knowledge they hold doesn't always allow them to be sufficiently informed, and they then make bad choices as a result or end up with the wrong dynamic or dominant or submissive.
There are many, particularly on the male dominant side of the coin, that will prey on a lack of knowledge and try to use it to their advantage, often portraying it as "the right way".
My advice to anyone looking to enter into a D/s dynamic of any kind is to inform themselves as much as they can, not only by reading some of the very good books/websites out there or completing BDSM questionnaires etc, but by doing a lot of inward searching to truly understand themselves, their desires and what they are looking for from a D/s connection and to do all that before even considering taking first steps into actually meeting someone |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
"I love being sub my limits depend on the Domme
Nope. No they don't. Not one bit.
This is exactly what I was taking about.
Would happily let a 'domme' remove a limb?
Knowingly give you an std?
Break a bone?
A submissive is personally responsible for their own safety and their own limits at all times.
You have limits. Don't lie to yourself or others by pretending otherwise. "
One of my favourite sadistic riggers told me that whenever a sub says "You can do anything" he says in a deadpan voice ""Just off to get my baseball bat and meat cleaver". I would add he is completely safe, but he does have a wicked sense of humour and cool toys! As a side note I picked up a mock Harley Quinn baseball bat at Comic-Con.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
"
Sorry for the long thread...
Sage words from both of the other contributors above...and really, *really* appreciated.
I wish all the subs being brainwashed into thinking that 'Real Doms' never discuss and 'Real subs' never guide their Dom would read this.
That applies just as equally to Doms that think they know it all, or their way is the only way - the situation works both ways round.
As I said earlier the real key here is open and honest two way communication where it is remembered by all involved that communication includes both speaking AND listening
There does seem to be plenty subs that will not discuss what they want and go with a true dom should know attitude. I think possibly alot of this stems from the 50 shades crap and the idea that the dom controls everything and instinctively knows what to do!
On the other hand, had plenty discussions with so called dommes who dont care what your needs are as a sub. The attitude of you will do as told no matter what which always sets alarm bells ringing. Everyone has limits and discussion before hand has to be part of it in my opinion.
Ultimately it comes down to being informed in able to be able to consent - on both sides of the coin, and for some the level of knowledge they hold doesn't always allow them to be sufficiently informed, and they then make bad choices as a result or end up with the wrong dynamic or dominant or submissive.
There are many, particularly on the male dominant side of the coin, that will prey on a lack of knowledge and try to use it to their advantage, often portraying it as "the right way".
My advice to anyone looking to enter into a D/s dynamic of any kind is to inform themselves as much as they can, not only by reading some of the very good books/websites out there or completing BDSM questionnaires etc, but by doing a lot of inward searching to truly understand themselves, their desires and what they are looking for from a D/s connection and to do all that before even considering taking first steps into actually meeting someone"
As usual I agree entirely but I remember being a young dom and getting started is a real pain. You just say yes to get experience when you should say no.
Actually being into bdsm helps with Fab. As I get people contacting me to come over and do stuff to them or do stuff to their Mrs. When you run down with them the consent issues to be considered you get radio silence back. My favourite request is come over and do X to my wife it is her fantasy, but she will not know you are coming and she will be blindfolded and you are not to talk to her. I ask how do I know she has consented and always receive no reply.
But my real gripe is with people who say consent is easy. It is like economists whose theoretical models work on the basis of people acting rationally. Oh really!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"One of my favourite sadistic riggers told me that whenever a sub says "You can do anything" he says in a deadpan voice ""Just off to get my baseball bat and meat cleaver". I would add he is completely safe, but he does have a wicked sense of humour and cool toys! As a side note I picked up a mock Harley Quinn baseball bat at Comic-Con.
"
You don't mean Cosmic do you? He says similar... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Sorry for the long thread...
Sage words from both of the other contributors above...and really, *really* appreciated.
I wish all the subs being brainwashed into thinking that 'Real Doms' never discuss and 'Real subs' never guide their Dom would read this.
That applies just as equally to Doms that think they know it all, or their way is the only way - the situation works both ways round.
As I said earlier the real key here is open and honest two way communication where it is remembered by all involved that communication includes both speaking AND listening
There does seem to be plenty subs that will not discuss what they want and go with a true dom should know attitude. I think possibly alot of this stems from the 50 shades crap and the idea that the dom controls everything and instinctively knows what to do!
On the other hand, had plenty discussions with so called dommes who dont care what your needs are as a sub. The attitude of you will do as told no matter what which always sets alarm bells ringing. Everyone has limits and discussion before hand has to be part of it in my opinion.
Ultimately it comes down to being informed in able to be able to consent - on both sides of the coin, and for some the level of knowledge they hold doesn't always allow them to be sufficiently informed, and they then make bad choices as a result or end up with the wrong dynamic or dominant or submissive.
There are many, particularly on the male dominant side of the coin, that will prey on a lack of knowledge and try to use it to their advantage, often portraying it as "the right way".
My advice to anyone looking to enter into a D/s dynamic of any kind is to inform themselves as much as they can, not only by reading some of the very good books/websites out there or completing BDSM questionnaires etc, but by doing a lot of inward searching to truly understand themselves, their desires and what they are looking for from a D/s connection and to do all that before even considering taking first steps into actually meeting someone
As usual I agree entirely but I remember being a young dom and getting started is a real pain. You just say yes to get experience when you should say no.
Actually being into bdsm helps with Fab. As I get people contacting me to come over and do stuff to them or do stuff to their Mrs. When you run down with them the consent issues to be considered you get radio silence back. My favourite request is come over and do X to my wife it is her fantasy, but she will not know you are coming and she will be blindfolded and you are not to talk to her. I ask how do I know she has consented and always receive no reply.
But my real gripe is with people who say consent is easy. It is like economists whose theoretical models work on the basis of people acting rationally. Oh really!
"
Totally agree that consent is a difficult thing to give, especially when starting out. You are dealing with theoretical questions, as you don't know what your wants or desires are. How do you know you one hundred percent you want to engage in impact play until you've experienced it? All you can do your reading and soul searching to make the best decision you can do for yourself.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"
Sorry for the long thread...
Sage words from both of the other contributors above...and really, *really* appreciated.
I wish all the subs being brainwashed into thinking that 'Real Doms' never discuss and 'Real subs' never guide their Dom would read this.
That applies just as equally to Doms that think they know it all, or their way is the only way - the situation works both ways round.
As I said earlier the real key here is open and honest two way communication where it is remembered by all involved that communication includes both speaking AND listening
There does seem to be plenty subs that will not discuss what they want and go with a true dom should know attitude. I think possibly alot of this stems from the 50 shades crap and the idea that the dom controls everything and instinctively knows what to do!
On the other hand, had plenty discussions with so called dommes who dont care what your needs are as a sub. The attitude of you will do as told no matter what which always sets alarm bells ringing. Everyone has limits and discussion before hand has to be part of it in my opinion.
Ultimately it comes down to being informed in able to be able to consent - on both sides of the coin, and for some the level of knowledge they hold doesn't always allow them to be sufficiently informed, and they then make bad choices as a result or end up with the wrong dynamic or dominant or submissive.
There are many, particularly on the male dominant side of the coin, that will prey on a lack of knowledge and try to use it to their advantage, often portraying it as "the right way".
My advice to anyone looking to enter into a D/s dynamic of any kind is to inform themselves as much as they can, not only by reading some of the very good books/websites out there or completing BDSM questionnaires etc, but by doing a lot of inward searching to truly understand themselves, their desires and what they are looking for from a D/s connection and to do all that before even considering taking first steps into actually meeting someone
As usual I agree entirely but I remember being a young dom and getting started is a real pain. You just say yes to get experience when you should say no.
Actually being into bdsm helps with Fab. As I get people contacting me to come over and do stuff to them or do stuff to their Mrs. When you run down with them the consent issues to be considered you get radio silence back. My favourite request is come over and do X to my wife it is her fantasy, but she will not know you are coming and she will be blindfolded and you are not to talk to her. I ask how do I know she has consented and always receive no reply.
But my real gripe is with people who say consent is easy. It is like economists whose theoretical models work on the basis of people acting rationally. Oh really!
Totally agree that consent is a difficult thing to give, especially when starting out. You are dealing with theoretical questions, as you don't know what your wants or desires are. How do you know you one hundred percent you want to engage in impact play until you've experienced it? All you can do your reading and soul searching to make the best decision you can do for yourself.
"
Exactly that - sometimes you have to "try before you buy" but do so having researched as much as is possible and made sure you go to the right shop to do so, one that is understanding and considerate and affords you the opportunity to ease into the purchase rather than coming on with the hard sell. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form an
y experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
You need to engage in those conversations though or how else is everyone supposed to know the boundaries or what each other actually likes. It is supposed to be enjoyable for both participants "
Exactly only through conversation can you find out if you are a compatable d/s this is the most important part discovering each other mentally as well as physically |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"One of my favourite sadistic riggers told me that whenever a sub says "You can do anything" he says in a deadpan voice ""Just off to get my baseball bat and meat cleaver". I would add he is completely safe, but he does have a wicked sense of humour and cool toys! As a side note I picked up a mock Harley Quinn baseball bat at Comic-Con.
You don't mean Cosmic do you? He says similar..."
All the girlies want to play with the big bad wolf
Thankfully he is a pussycat until he knows you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"
You don't mean Cosmic do you? He says similar...
All the girlies want to play with the big bad wolf
Thankfully he is a pussycat until he knows you "
And he can still be a pussycat after too - if he needs to be!
I have a lot of time, affection and just the right amount of fear for him |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
"
You don't mean Cosmic do you? He says similar...
All the girlies want to play with the big bad wolf
Thankfully he is a pussycat until he knows you
And he can still be a pussycat after too - if he needs to be!
I have a lot of time, affection and just the right amount of fear for him "
Not Cosmic, although I have seen him play and used to see him regularly on the scene when I used to be out and about. I like the guy he showed me a fun thing called "twilting". |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Do you not think that an awful lot of "subs"don't really know what being a sub is. A poster before mentioned the "50 Shades" effect which possibly does have an influence on people's perspective.
As a man looking for male domination I can't speak for dommes, but I have a list (posted on Recon under my profile) which lists my activities. If it's not on the list it doesn't happen without discussion and I have never had a problem. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
A sub's submission is what they want it to be, no more no less. Too many people both doms and subs require submission and domination to be defined their way and no other definition applies. This is wrong D/S is a broad church and it is not just to satisfy one party.
The De Sadean or Story of O practices are just one way to do D/S not the only way. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"Do you not think that an awful lot of "subs"don't really know what being a sub is. A poster before mentioned the "50 Shades" effect which possibly does have an influence on people's perspective.
As a man looking for male domination I can't speak for dommes, but I have a list (posted on Recon under my profile) which lists my activities. If it's not on the list it doesn't happen without discussion and I have never had a problem."
What is "being a sub" though? It's a very individual and unique thing, which as my respected friend _ensual so rightly says is defined by that individual and no-one else.
What is lacking in some, on both sides of the coin, is the self-searching and introspection to not only define, but understand, why they think they are submissive or dominant, what their expectations of their defined role is, and indeed their definition and expectations of the "opposite" they hope to attract - whilst a level of knowledge and informed awareness is obviously beneficial, the real key is an understanding of ourselves as individuals and how we fit into the dynamic - not how someone else tells us we should fit into it.
As for the "50 Shades" effect, I used to think along similar lines to you, but before 50 Shades, there was BDSM porn and The Story Of O, before that there were other influencers - each of them unique and respected or discarded in their own way.
My view now is that if those things opened people's eyes to an interest then there is nothing in itself wrong with that, or even with following the dynamics it shows BUT it has to come from a position of awareness and understanding both of what it represents and yourself not just something you see and read and think "I'll have some of that" because that is where problems lie.
If someone follows the "50 Shades" doctrine for themselves from a position of awareness and knowledge, and follows it with people in agreement and of a like mind who are just as aware and knowledgeable, then it's not for me to say it is wrong, any more than it is for them to think my underlying values and beliefs are. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
"Do you not think that an awful lot of "subs"don't really know what being a sub is. A poster before mentioned the "50 Shades" effect which possibly does have an influence on people's perspective.
As a man looking for male domination I can't speak for dommes, but I have a list (posted on Recon under my profile) which lists my activities. If it's not on the list it doesn't happen without discussion and I have never had a problem.
What is "being a sub" though? It's a very individual and unique thing, which as my respected friend _ensual so rightly says is defined by that individual and no-one else.
What is lacking in some, on both sides of the coin, is the self-searching and introspection to not only define, but understand, why they think they are submissive or dominant, what their expectations of their defined role is, and indeed their definition and expectations of the "opposite" they hope to attract - whilst a level of knowledge and informed awareness is obviously beneficial, the real key is an understanding of ourselves as individuals and how we fit into the dynamic - not how someone else tells us we should fit into it.
As for the "50 Shades" effect, I used to think along similar lines to you, but before 50 Shades, there was BDSM porn and The Story Of O, before that there were other influencers - each of them unique and respected or discarded in their own way.
My view now is that if those things opened people's eyes to an interest then there is nothing in itself wrong with that, or even with following the dynamics it shows BUT it has to come from a position of awareness and understanding both of what it represents and yourself not just something you see and read and think "I'll have some of that" because that is where problems lie.
If someone follows the "50 Shades" doctrine for themselves from a position of awareness and knowledge, and follows it with people in agreement and of a like mind who are just as aware and knowledgeable, then it's not for me to say it is wrong, any more than it is for them to think my underlying values and beliefs are. "
The sound of the nail being hit on the head!
Once again a reasoned and cogent explanation by my friend the G-man. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do you not think that an awful lot of "subs"don't really know what being a sub is. A poster before mentioned the "50 Shades" effect which possibly does have an influence on people's perspective.
As a man looking for male domination I can't speak for dommes, but I have a list (posted on Recon under my profile) which lists my activities. If it's not on the list it doesn't happen without discussion and I have never had a problem.
What is "being a sub" though? It's a very individual and unique thing, which as my respected friend _ensual so rightly says is defined by that individual and no-one else.
What is lacking in some, on both sides of the coin, is the self-searching and introspection to not only define, but understand, why they think they are submissive or dominant, what their expectations of their defined role is, and indeed their definition and expectations of the "opposite" they hope to attract - whilst a level of knowledge and informed awareness is obviously beneficial, the real key is an understanding of ourselves as individuals and how we fit into the dynamic - not how someone else tells us we should fit into it.
As for the "50 Shades" effect, I used to think along similar lines to you, but before 50 Shades, there was BDSM porn and The Story Of O, before that there were other influencers - each of them unique and respected or discarded in their own way.
My view now is that if those things opened people's eyes to an interest then there is nothing in itself wrong with that, or even with following the dynamics it shows BUT it has to come from a position of awareness and understanding both of what it represents and yourself not just something you see and read and think "I'll have some of that" because that is where problems lie.
If someone follows the "50 Shades" doctrine for themselves from a position of awareness and knowledge, and follows it with people in agreement and of a like mind who are just as aware and knowledgeable, then it's not for me to say it is wrong, any more than it is for them to think my underlying values and beliefs are. "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I attended a swinging event over the weekend and it underscored to me the differences between 'being dominant' and the modern interpretation of 'being a dominant'. At the event there were a number of dominant men, but they were not dominants. What do I mean by that? The usual health warning applies that people interpret concepts in bdsm differently.
In regard to being a dominant althougb there is an expectation of the dominant leading and controlling, there is also an expectation of the dominant looking after the mental and physical welfare of the sub in the way the sub requires.
There is an understanding that being a dominant is more than an opportunity to obtain sexual gratification. The skills the dominant are secondary to the creation of a safe and supporting environment."
I've experienced both..one did not last long
I'm in 7th heaven now... It's a delicious, continual journey of discovery and delight |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
PRICK, Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink. I stopped using ssc/rack and the others in favour of this one.
If anyone within a dynamic refuses to communicate then for me, it's an end point.
I'm just as responsible for the mental and physical health of the Dom/sadist/top as I am for my own.
That's interesting, though invested I'd never feel responsible for another adults mental health, as long as all is discussed, consensual and I'm not intentionally trying to hurt them..."
I believe drop can have a huge impact on mental health. Drop doesn't discriminate, it can affect any label.
If I scene with someone and don't do aftercare and they suffer drop 
I wouldn't scene with someone I wasn't at least friends with, as such I care for and am co-responsible for any resulting drop.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All depends on the dynamic of the person. Some I thought would be dominant, turn out not to be. You don’t know until you’re with someone
Agreed, but some subs find it difficult to discuss what they enjoy most, or want to experience or what makes them feel submissive.
I know it can be hard to describe things sometimes, but there's often certain fixed elements that combine to form any experience.
Many subs are unwilling to engage in such conversations.
It can make it impossible for their Dom to create the experience the sub really desires and I'm sure it leads to many failed D/s relationships.
Doms should be skilled and engaged with their sub/s, but though observant and creative, they're not psychic.
I'd much prefer some discussion, to a disappointed sub or failed D/s relationship.
PRICK, Personal Responsibility In Consensual Kink. I stopped using ssc/rack and the others in favour of this one.
If anyone within a dynamic refuses to communicate then for me, it's an end point.
I'm just as responsible for the mental and physical health of the Dom/sadist/top as I am for my own.
That's interesting, though invested I'd never feel responsible for another adults mental health, as long as all is discussed, consensual and I'm not intentionally trying to hurt them...
I believe drop can have a huge impact on mental health. Drop doesn't discriminate, it can affect any label.
If I scene with someone and don't do aftercare and they suffer drop
I wouldn't scene with someone I wasn't at least friends with, as such I care for and am co-responsible for any resulting drop.
"
I alway look for sub-drop and always give the care needed when it happens...i was referring more to how some subs bdsm journey affects them, causes inner conflict and sometimes affects their moods and mental health.
I always try to support them as people, but I don't feel responsible for their day-to-day mental health or happiness.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"
I alway look for sub-drop and always give the care needed when it happens...i was referring more to how some subs bdsm journey affects them, causes inner conflict and sometimes affects their moods and mental health.
I always try to support them as people, but I don't feel responsible for their day-to-day mental health or happiness.
"
If you're partly responsible for that though, through actions or otherwise, do you not perhaps think you should be? If you've engaged in a dynamic with someone and that dynamic has had an impact on them then a duty of care needs to be there on some level.
This can apply to anyone but is especially pertinent with someone new to the scene who may not understand or be fully aware of what to expect I would have thought? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
I ought to clarify my comment on mental health. The confusion is caused by me trying to reduce the length of my posts.
There was a good post a few years ago on FL which said only qualified mental health practitioners can help people with mental health issues. You cannot dom or sub someone well who has a mental health issue. You can, if you are able to do so, is to support them when they need help.
However I was not referring to the above situation but trying to make a comparison of care in the same way as you look after the physical side of them. You don't randomly hit someone, you should not ghost someone. If they are physically ill you don't play, if the mental state is not right you don't play. I see good D/S as looking out for each other.
I hope that makes more sense. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I alway look for sub-drop and always give the care needed when it happens...i was referring more to how some subs bdsm journey affects them, causes inner conflict and sometimes affects their moods and mental health.
I always try to support them as people, but I don't feel responsible for their day-to-day mental health or happiness.
If you're partly responsible for that though, through actions or otherwise, do you not perhaps think you should be? If you've engaged in a dynamic with someone and that dynamic has had an impact on them then a duty of care needs to be there on some level.
This can apply to anyone but is especially pertinent with someone new to the scene who may not understand or be fully aware of what to expect I would have thought? "
No, sorry, I don't...i always try to be supportive and help a sub through any difficulties, just like I woukd anyone, but they're adults and as long as I've not tried to damage their mental health, which I never would, then I'm never going to feel responsible for it.
They've made informed, consensual decisions and have a respected safeword in place if needed.
As you probably know, we all have our challenges, but the D/s world has more than most. There are a lot of beautiful, strong, but slightly broken minds drawn towards bdsm for all kinds of reasons.
If I took responsibility for the mental health of all those I've ever Domd, I'd spend my life taking many to therapy.
Once I feel someone is strong and informed enough to engage in play, once boundaries have been discussed, a safeword set and permission given, past the point of subdrop responsibility has to revert to them as consenting adults. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
In my opinion, many people refer to being dominant as just like having control over the play and the submissive just likes being the reciever and owned for sex play.
Nothing wrong with that, but it's a far cry as to what I think of the dynamic and lifestyle that encompasses those relationships that is now highly misinterpreted because of people misunderstanding or abusing the roles they put themselves in consensually without knowing what it can actually do physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"In my opinion, many people refer to being dominant as just like having control over the play and the submissive just likes being the reciever and owned for sex play.
Nothing wrong with that, but it's a far cry as to what I think of the dynamic and lifestyle that encompasses those relationships that is now highly misinterpreted because of people misunderstanding or abusing the roles they put themselves in consensually without knowing what it can actually do physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially.
"
I'm a session, not a lifestyle Dom and it doesn't appeal to me to have a slave or a pet and I only like playing with strong minded and often strong willed femsubs.
I'm interested that you listed 'financially' as part of your consequences...how so? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In my opinion, many people refer to being dominant as just like having control over the play and the submissive just likes being the reciever and owned for sex play.
Nothing wrong with that, but it's a far cry as to what I think of the dynamic and lifestyle that encompasses those relationships that is now highly misinterpreted because of people misunderstanding or abusing the roles they put themselves in consensually without knowing what it can actually do physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially.
I'm a session, not a lifestyle Dom and it doesn't appeal to me to have a slave or a pet and I only like playing with strong minded and often strong willed femsubs.
I'm interested that you listed 'financially' as part of your consequences...how so? "
Submissive can be owned financially or have their money or purchases controlled by their dominants; as well dominants can also financially gift their submissives if that is part of the relationship. Many different kinds of situations. Some dominants also build their own dungeons, which can be very costly etc etc.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"In my opinion, many people refer to being dominant as just like having control over the play and the submissive just likes being the reciever and owned for sex play.
Nothing wrong with that, but it's a far cry as to what I think of the dynamic and lifestyle that encompasses those relationships that is now highly misinterpreted because of people misunderstanding or abusing the roles they put themselves in consensually without knowing what it can actually do physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially.
I'm a session, not a lifestyle Dom and it doesn't appeal to me to have a slave or a pet and I only like playing with strong minded and often strong willed femsubs.
I'm interested that you listed 'financially' as part of your consequences...how so?
Submissive can be owned financially or have their money or purchases controlled by their dominants; as well dominants can also financially gift their submissives if that is part of the relationship. Many different kinds of situations. Some dominants also build their own dungeons, which can be very costly etc etc.
"
Ahhh, I get you now...thanks for clarifying. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"I ought to clarify my comment on mental health. The confusion is caused by me trying to reduce the length of my posts.
There was a good post a few years ago on FL which said only qualified mental health practitioners can help people with mental health issues. You cannot dom or sub someone well who has a mental health issue. You can, if you are able to do so, is to support them when they need help.
However I was not referring to the above situation but trying to make a comparison of care in the same way as you look after the physical side of them. You don't randomly hit someone, you should not ghost someone. If they are physically ill you don't play, if the mental state is not right you don't play. I see good D/S as looking out for each other.
I hope that makes more sense."
Makes perfect sense (as usual) and that was kind of the point I was trying to make about a duty of care - it should be in place both before, during and after any involvement and encompass both physical *and* mental well being, as well as being sure to know the other person well enough (regardless of whether they are D or s) to have a fair understanding not only of their level of knowledge and ability to consent from an informed position, but also how prepared they are both mentally and physically for whatever level of involvement is agreed.
Of course that level of awareness and understanding is limited to your own capabilities (e.g. as your rightly point out only a qualified mental health practitioner would be able to make an accurate assessment on that particular point) but common sense prevails and taking time to get to know someone, their level of knowledge and understanding etc are all very good guidelines.
There is a danger, particularly as I said with someone new to D/s, that they may not have the level of knowledge or understanding required so in that instance it's either back away, or take things at a very slow pace as they gain that knowledge and level of comfort. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Who enjoys domination and to what level some people have mixed opinions "
Well that entirely depends on who is thinking they're the dominant one and whether I can sniff out their intentions as bad/selfish/creepy etc
Some who claim to be dominant are no more than bullies, masking their tendencies behind a "dominant" label.
Those that seek out others who may be deemed vulnerable or take their past into account when deciding whether they'll be able to abuse them or not and use that to their advantage, well, that's all kinds of twisted.
P |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
We will have to stop this mutual lovefest or get a room
My thing is rope, and there is a lot of non sexual pick up play on the scene. Before starting you speak to the bottom about their experience, their health, any restrictions affecting tying them. You run through the safety aspects about circulation and nerve damage. You discuss safe words but in the knowledge some bottoms push the edge and you check aftercare requirements. You do the scene, you debrief. But courtesy requires that you ask that you can check-in on them within the next few days. Firstly, to make sure there are no bad side effects. Second, for a further debrief and third, some people as mentioned have an altered mental state after play, sub drop, and it is just to remind them that if they feel down, it is not their mind, it's their body, and you are there for them as you created this condition. Some people need a further check-in, some don't need it all.
There is also top-drop and some bottoms check-in on their tops. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"Chris is sub when he can be and before we met used to explore this side. I'm not domme nor sub hence chris can explore on his own but not many offers for regular sub play lol"
Dommes looking for male subs are the unicorns of the kink world - they exist but don't tend to advertise (unless they're professional ) and can afford to be very choosy - it's generally a case of a situation evolving over time rather than specifically going looking for a Domme, or them come looking for you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *gcw2014Couple
over a year ago
just outside of liverpool |
"Chris is sub when he can be and before we met used to explore this side. I'm not domme nor sub hence chris can explore on his own but not many offers for regular sub play lol
Dommes looking for male subs are the unicorns of the kink world - they exist but don't tend to advertise (unless they're professional ) and can afford to be very choosy - it's generally a case of a situation evolving over time rather than specifically going looking for a Domme, or them come looking for you"
Finding that out lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Chris is sub when he can be and before we met used to explore this side. I'm not domme nor sub hence chris can explore on his own but not many offers for regular sub play lol
Dommes looking for male subs are the unicorns of the kink world - they exist but don't tend to advertise (unless they're professional ) and can afford to be very choosy - it's generally a case of a situation evolving over time rather than specifically going looking for a Domme, or them come looking for you
Finding that out lol"
Try finding a trim, sexy bi femDomme...like winning the lottery. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Who enjoys domination and to what level some people have mixed opinions "
I don't really go by levels. The subs who've worshipped me have all been different, no two alike....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I don't really go by levels. The subs who've worshipped me have all been different, no two alike....
"
This is so true. So many people who claim to be into D/s seem to have a picture of how the dynamic will work and be prior to meeting. Which is just destined to fail....
Each dynamic I’ve had with a Domme has been wholly different. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Chris is sub when he can be and before we met used to explore this side. I'm not domme nor sub hence chris can explore on his own but not many offers for regular sub play lol
Dommes looking for male subs are the unicorns of the kink world - they exist but don't tend to advertise (unless they're professional ) and can afford to be very choosy - it's generally a case of a situation evolving over time rather than specifically going looking for a Domme, or them come looking for you
Finding that out lol
Try finding a trim, sexy bi femDomme...like winning the lottery. "
Ever tried to find money down the back of a sofa when your skint ? Theres never any there is there . At all other times theres lose change in every coat pocket.
Dont try to find a " Dominatrix " instead try to find a woman , and show her she can trust you to submit , because until she knows that the unicorn is safe with you , she may never let you see it .. Time and patience are they key to finding such a fabled creature ..What she really wants to know is what your intentions are after youve been allowed to see .
Are you a hunter , are you only here for the kill ..? Its a question she may ask ..Your male , a predator perhaps .Will you switch , if she strikes you to hard ? You have the physical strenth to do her harm . You may not mean to , but in that moment " what is your temperment ?
My Goddess inflicts pain on me for her own sexual gratification and im not a masochist ..So she must trust me ..That and Shibari of course ...
Can you be trusted ..are you willing to take the time to find a Unicorn ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
