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consent
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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consent is the one thing we all use for sex but what if ....
you agree to meet a guy who says hes single so you consent to having sex then you find out he's married ?? is that consent then broken ? as the guy has lied to have sex with you ??
just had this thought from what someone said on the real age topic..
consent can only be consent if truthful or not ?? would mean a hell of a lot of people not using consent properly and how would it stand up in court ?? ie a married woman divorcing her husband who told the woman hes having sex with he was single ... no consent is r*p* in the eyes of the law ?? over thinking or is this real ?? |
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"Think it is like most contracts, Offer /acceptance. A transfer. Has fixed terms, the problem arises with implied terms, they are so open to misinterpretation.....
By ALL party’s "
Dont forget to throw a bit of custom and practice in there!! |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
I think it's more a moral issue than a legal one. I do believe it changes the circumstances of the consent and therefore makes the moral side of consent questionable but I don't think it would stand up in court even if it did get that far. |
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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago
ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL |
"I think it's more a moral issue than a legal one. I do believe it changes the circumstances of the consent and therefore makes the moral side of consent questionable but I don't think it would stand up in court even if it did get that far. "
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"I think it's more a moral issue than a legal one. I do believe it changes the circumstances of the consent and therefore makes the moral side of consent questionable but I don't think it would stand up in court even if it did get that far. "
In theory it should as an informal contract (ask a few footballers and celebrities).
Better if you have fixed terms [(ask Christian Grey) always something somewhere to learn] in your consent contract.
That or chat and have fun. |
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This is a really interesting post. Men have always lied about their marital or financial status in order to get laid, Compare this to the women activists who had sex with undercover police officers under the impression that they were single and of the same political and ethical persuasion. Some of them are now suing the police, and believe that they were sexually abused because their consent was based on false information. Also the lesbian who was jailed for pretending to me a man and using a fake penis on her lover. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Rape is being forced to have sex without your consent.... because someone lies about their name/age or marital status and asking if that could be considered as r*pe is flabbergasting.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't think anyone is trying to say it's actually that. We are just discussing if it changes the situation. "
No it doesn't change the situation- if you agree to sex and have fun, does it matter they aren't called Gerald or he is 5 years older?
You obviously liked the person. |
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"Rape is being forced to have sex without your consent.... because someone lies about their name/age or marital status and asking if that could be considered as r*pe is flabbergasting. "
Rape in English law is defined as "unlawful sexual intercourse with a woman who (a) at the time of the intercourse does not consent to it, and (b) at that time he knows that she does not consent to the intercourse or he is reckless as to whether she consents to it."
However, misrepresenting identity, and obtaining sexual consent due to a false identity, was not generally a crime in UK law, other than in specific situations such as impersonating a person's partner, or deceit as to gender, so that deceit can create a case of r*pe (known as "r*pe by deception" or "r*pe by fraud") if "the act consented to was not the act undertaken". Thus the case of the lesbian I mentioned was a case of r*pe, but that the police officers were not.
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"I don't think anyone is trying to say it's actually that. We are just discussing if it changes the situation.
No it doesn't change the situation- if you agree to sex and have fun, does it matter they aren't called Gerald or he is 5 years older?
You obviously liked the person. "
It's a discussion, we are just chatting about it. I actually think it does matter if they purposely lied to get a shag, I'm not saying they broke consent, I'm saying the are shady fuckers that need to sort their heads out if they have to deceive people to get laid. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think if we start calling situations like this r*pe, it belittles the seriousness of actual sexual assaults. It's deceitful, no more no less. "
im not saying its anything its just a question that's all |
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By *SAchickWoman
over a year ago
Hillside desolate |
"I think if we start calling situations like this r*pe, it belittles the seriousness of actual sexual assaults. It's deceitful, no more no less.
im not saying its anything its just a question that's all "
I didn't say that was your opinion, but you did ask the question and that's my answer. |
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The deception element covers scenarios such as a doctor saying a cure for a sore throat is to put his penis in the patients vagina (this has actually happened).
Lying about name, profession and marital status does not mean a sexual encounter is r&pe. Please don't allege serious offences against a guy for these things.
Would you consider it a sexual assault (as a woman can't legally r&pe a man) if a lady lied about her age and the bloke turned around at a later date and said he wouldn't have consented if he had known the real age?
Don't get me wrong, it makes him an arsehole.....just not a r&pist. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The deception element covers scenarios such as a doctor saying a cure for a sore throat is to put his penis in the patients vagina (this has actually happened).
Lying about name, profession and marital status does not mean a sexual encounter is r&pe. Please don't allege serious offences against a guy for these things.
Would you consider it a sexual assault (as a woman can't legally r&pe a man) if a lady lied about her age and the bloke turned around at a later date and said he wouldn't have consented if he had known the real age?
Don't get me wrong, it makes him an arsehole.....just not a r&pist."
no one is accusing anyone its just a debate ... |
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"The deception element covers scenarios such as a doctor saying a cure for a sore throat is to put his penis in the patients vagina (this has actually happened).
Lying about name, profession and marital status does not mean a sexual encounter is r&pe. Please don't allege serious offences against a guy for these things.
Would you consider it a sexual assault (as a woman can't legally r&pe a man) if a lady lied about her age and the bloke turned around at a later date and said he wouldn't have consented if he had known the real age?
Don't get me wrong, it makes him an arsehole.....just not a r&pist."
Your argument is very dull it maybe correct but dull you guys are hot so it's ok....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's a breach of trust but I don't think it's a consent issue. If you lie about marital status then that's potentially significant in meeting some one socially but being single is one of a myriad of consideratons when it comes to having sex |
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It only holds up in law if....
*person A forces person B
*person B is unable to consent (intoxicated/unconscious)
*person A uses bl*ckm*il
It IS classed as assault if you agree to a Condom and it is removed but some of these things are very hard to prove.
Being dishonest about age/marital starts won't hold up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Once you've had sex you cant go back after the fact and say it was non consensual. You agreed to sex,you had sex,what happens after that,lies or whatever has nothing to do with consent. Yes lying to get sex is wrong but it happens everyday. |
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"It only holds up in law if....
*person A forces person B
*person B is unable to consent (intoxicated/unconscious)
*person A uses bl*ckm*il
It IS classed as assault if you agree to a Condom and it is removed but some of these things are very hard to prove.
Being dishonest about age/marital starts won't hold up. "
Interesting, can you quote a leading case on this?
So hate dredging case law. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Personally I can't see how it would make any difference, you was both consenting adults.
Also would you be thinking this way if it was a women cheating?"
yes this goes both ways its not an attack on men it more about those's that lie to get what they want...
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By *enWEcanCouple
over a year ago
Birmingham |
A few on here of both sexes lie about their age, where would it end? Ask a potential partner how many sexual partners they’ve had an if they’ve lied is that forced sexual contact?
A woman tells a man she’s 35 but she’s really 42 is that forced sexual contact? Meeting on the basis you’re of an athletic build but you’re chubby. Is that grooming? |
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By *enWEcanCouple
over a year ago
Birmingham |
Someone says they’re A none smoker but they smoke, the fact they’re a none smoker may of been very very important to the sexual partner.
A meat eater says they’re vegetarian an their partner would never sleep with a meat eater. How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? A partner lies about their job, their earnings? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally I wouldn’t chose to sleep with a married man who goes behind his wife’s back. It is my choice.
Like if a man said I wasn’t his type after chatting is totally his decision and I wouldn’t try and pester him with why etc.
I tend to find the social always roots out the ones cheating not 100% but nearly all. If I found out after I had slept with him, I would be angry and I would definitely vent my anger on the said man.
However to call it r*pe, I never would. I consented and that wouldn’t change despite his lying. |
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"Personally I wouldn’t chose to sleep with a married man who goes behind his wife’s back. It is my choice.
Like if a man said I wasn’t his type after chatting is totally his decision and I wouldn’t try and pester him with why etc.
I tend to find the social always roots out the ones cheating not 100% but nearly all. If I found out after I had slept with him, I would be angry and I would definitely vent my anger on the said man.
However to call it r*pe, I never would. I consented and that wouldn’t change despite his lying. "
Correct
Angry/annoyed/deceived but not r#pe.
R#pe is where either party does not consent to a physical act.
It is nothing to do with the status of either party, other than them being of a legal age and in a clear sense of mind.
Whether they lie to you about being married or a clown in a circus bears no relevance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"consent is the one thing we all use for sex but what if ....
you agree to meet a guy who says hes single so you consent to having sex then you find out he's married ?? is that consent then broken ? as the guy has lied to have sex with you ??
just had this thought from what someone said on the real age topic..
consent can only be consent if truthful or not ?? would mean a hell of a lot of people not using consent properly and how would it stand up in court ?? ie a married woman divorcing her husband who told the woman hes having sex with he was single ... no consent is r*p* in the eyes of the law ?? over thinking or is this real ??"
lol hey you will have to get used to indiscretion here just dont meet him again  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"consent is the one thing we all use for sex but what if ....
you agree to meet a guy who says hes single so you consent to having sex then you find out he's married ?? is that consent then broken ? as the guy has lied to have sex with you ??
just had this thought from what someone said on the real age topic..
consent can only be consent if truthful or not ?? would mean a hell of a lot of people not using consent properly and how would it stand up in court ?? ie a married woman divorcing her husband who told the woman hes having sex with he was single ... no consent is r*p* in the eyes of the law ?? over thinking or is this real ??"
Consent is what you want it to be. If you say you want to have sex, then change your mind you are withdrawing that consent. Any person of opposing sex (or same) would need to respect that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"consent is the one thing we all use for sex but what if ....
you agree to meet a guy who says hes single so you consent to having sex then you find out he's married ?? is that consent then broken ? as the guy has lied to have sex with you ??
just had this thought from what someone said on the real age topic..
consent can only be consent if truthful or not ?? would mean a hell of a lot of people not using consent properly and how would it stand up in court ?? ie a married woman divorcing her husband who told the woman hes having sex with he was single ... no consent is r*p* in the eyes of the law ?? over thinking or is this real ??lol hey you will have to get used to indiscretion here just dont meet him again "
its not real its a figure of speech ... a what if |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nah it's more like breach of contract."
Breach of verbal contract unless in messages and really speaking dont think a court would hear such a case to be fair. At least with couple profiles (most of the time when genuine) you know they are not going behind each others backs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Someone says they’re A none smoker but they smoke, the fact they’re a none smoker may of been very very important to the sexual partner.
A meat eater says they’re vegetarian an their partner would never sleep with a meat eater. How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? A partner lies about their job, their earnings?"
Point taken. The list could be endless. However it depends on whether a personality is important in those scenarios and whether it makes the person less attractive because of it surely? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you have given consent you have given consent marital status has nothing to do with it. You can rescind consent mind before and during intimacy but not after when later finding out something about the other person. |
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"consent is the one thing we all use for sex but what if ....
you agree to meet a guy who says hes single so you consent to having sex then you find out he's married ?? is that consent then broken ? as the guy has lied to have sex with you ??
just had this thought from what someone said on the real age topic..
consent can only be consent if truthful or not ?? would mean a hell of a lot of people not using consent properly and how would it stand up in court ?? ie a married woman divorcing her husband who told the woman hes having sex with he was single ... no consent is r*p* in the eyes of the law ?? over thinking or is this real ??"
If you want to know more google "r.pe by deceit" and you'll find a lot of information and cases(most of them outside of the uk)
It's quite complicated and a lot of it depends on whether you'd have had sex with that person if you'd known the full facts.
You get young guys pretending to be football played for example which Has lead to girls wanting sex with them because of it.
Some argue it's r.pe by deceit while others say if you've had sex with someone without fancying them anyway but for your own ulterior motives ie you think they're rich, you deserve to be taught a lesson.
If i am in a pub and I pull a women who says she's 21(dream on) but she's 24 have I been r.ped by deceit ? I think the deciding factor is would I have had sex knowing she was 24.
Quite an interesting subject,
I guess the simplest deciding factor is did you enjoy it  |
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Consent can be withdrawn at any moment.
I get strange requests like ball crushing? etc. Spoke to my solicitor who said even if the guy gave written consent, but then said 'no' as the last second, that's withdrawing consent, and then I could be done. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I understand what the OP is saying.
If consent wouldn't have been given had the truth been known, and if the liar was aware of this the consent was gained under false pretences and deception it could certainly feel like the r*pe I'm sure.
I do think it should be classed as assault if deception was used to gain trust and a way into someones bed, as a physical act was the end result.
It's fraud, plain and simple, the difference being the gain of a physical gain that wouldn't have happened if the truth was known rather than a financial gain which most fraud is.
P |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I guess a similar case (apologies I never took in the whole point of the post originally) would be the one where the guy from the Met went undercover (quite literally) with, I think it was, an animal rights protestor. That was pretty big news a few years back. She took him to court for that very thing did she not? |
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"I guess a similar case (apologies I never took in the whole point of the post originally) would be the one where the guy from the Met went undercover (quite literally) with, I think it was, an animal rights protestor. That was pretty big news a few years back. She took him to court for that very thing did she not?"
The evidence in the case against he was thrown out but nbo case was put against him for fucking her was brought as far as I recall. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I understand what the OP is saying.
If consent wouldn't have been given had the truth been known, and if the liar was aware of this the consent was gained under false pretences and deception it could certainly feel like the r*pe I'm sure.
I do think it should be classed as assault if deception was used to gain trust and a way into someones bed, as a physical act was the end result.
It's fraud, plain and simple, the difference being the gain of a physical gain that wouldn't have happened if the truth was known rather than a financial gain which most fraud is.
P"
spot on wish i could have put it this way ...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rape is being forced to have sex without your consent.... because someone lies about their name/age or marital status and asking if that could be considered as r*pe is flabbergasting.
"
This!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"consent is the one thing we all use for sex but what if ....
you agree to meet a guy who says hes single so you consent to having sex then you find out he's married ?? is that consent then broken ? as the guy has lied to have sex with you ??
just had this thought from what someone said on the real age topic..
consent can only be consent if truthful or not ?? would mean a hell of a lot of people not using consent properly and how would it stand up in court ?? ie a married woman divorcing her husband who told the woman hes having sex with he was single ... no consent is r*p* in the eyes of the law ?? over thinking or is this real ??lol hey you will have to get used to indiscretion here just dont meet him again
its not real its a figure of speech ... a what if "
my reply was in general to but i myself am a great believer in what you dont know doesn't hurt you  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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no one is saying anyone is a r*p*st its the blurry lines when someone lies about who they are and why are they lying or trying to deceive ...the only bit said in the opening message was no consent is r*p* ...trying to debate what the blurry lines are before that like can it be true consent if the person is lying to you to get what they want ??? |
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
In law consent was given and everybody was happy at the time. It is the same as buying an item of clothing for full price and the next day seeing it in the sale at 50% off. The store knew they were putting it in the sale the next day but still sold it to you at full price.
Obviously the matter of trust and good faith have been destroyed. |
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"Rape is being forced to have sex without your consent.... because someone lies about their name/age or marital status and asking if that could be considered as r*pe is flabbergasting.
Rape in English law is defined as "unlawful sexual intercourse with a woman who (a) at the time of the intercourse does not consent to it, and (b) at that time he knows that she does not consent to the intercourse or he is reckless as to whether she consents to it."
However, misrepresenting identity, and obtaining sexual consent due to a false identity, was not generally a crime in UK law, other than in specific situations such as impersonating a person's partner, or deceit as to gender, so that deceit can create a case of r*pe (known as "r*pe by deception" or "r*pe by fraud") if "the act consented to was not the act undertaken". Thus the case of the lesbian I mentioned was a case of r*pe, but that the police officers were not.
"
I have had discussions about odd laws with a police friend.
I was under the impression that r@pe had to involve sexual penetration with a penis. Surely the lesbian would be guilty of the equally serious crime of sexual assault?
Likewise joy-riding in a car was not theft, if you didn't intend to permanently deprive the owner of their vehicle. This loophole was closed with the law for 'Taking without the owners consent' (TWOCing).
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"no one is saying anyone is a r*p*st its the blurry lines when someone lies about who they are and why are they lying or trying to deceive ...the only bit said in the opening message was no consent is r*p* ...trying to debate what the blurry lines are before that like can it be true consent if the person is lying to you to get what they want ??? "
Ok. So blurry lines? In what way? So if someone did try and take someone to court what would they be accusing them of? I agree it’s deceitful and wrong but I don’t believe there’s anything anyone can do about it. It’s most certainly not assault or r*pe. |
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
If we are talking about consent, under UK law a woman can force a man to have sex with her without his consent and that will not be called as r@pe.
Before anybody says it not possible to get an erection read this article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49057533 |
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Would it be consent if a social happens and they agree to have sex, they are going at it and the guy thinks she has big tits but he goes to grab them inside her bra and realises she is wearing a massive padded bra and what looked like d cups are just b cups. |
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"If we are talking about consent, under UK law a woman can force a man to have sex with her without his consent and that will not be called as r@pe.
Before anybody says it not possible to get an erection read this article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49057533"
Wasn’t there something about a American/Canadian missionary a number of years ago.
That or it was a dream.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So are some people saying that because he lied about his marital status and had sex he is now a rapist? Or am I reading this wrong  "
Not at all, but they are saying deception was used to gain something from another person.
It's a kind of contract if the discussion has been had.
Lady:I don't meet attached men.
Man: That's cool I'm single.
He blatantly knows right there and then that if he told the truth things would go no further.
Deception for personal gain, knowing it goes against the other persons wishes or beliefs.
Eateries have been sued for selling supposed kosher/halal foods when they knew full well it wasn't, because they decieved people into using and digesting their product KNOWING it was against their belief.
Having something inside your body that you haven't agreed to can make people feel dirty and completely disgusted with themselves, whether that be food they believed was sacred or man meat they believed was in their accepted group of suitors.
We don't know just how badly the deception would impact the other person, just how deeply their values run.
At least if someone gets money out of you in a fraudulent manner you stand a chance of getting it back, you can't reverse giving someone your body and have it returned to you.
P |
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