FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swingers Chat > The Moralistic High ground 2
The Moralistic High ground 2
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Is it a position you like to be in? If so why? Are people on the high ground devoid of sin or do they just feel better than the rest and relish in judging others?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Sorry I couldn’t reply on the previous thread but as you asked you deserved a response Polo
"I don't get annoyed at the general public judging me. I can accept that many have different values to mine regarding sex.
What is a tad annoying is someone trying to tell me I (and others) should not judge people whilst he has done nothing but wave his own big fat judging stick at anyone whose opinion he doesn't like.
If you really want to know what hypocritical looks like, take some advice from Michael Jackson and start by looking at the man in the mirror.
"
Fair enough I can understand that people have different values.
Now there is nothing wrong with people having an opinion on things. I would say its good people have an opinion, however to get aggressive and foresee that opinion on others and judging them saying they have no morals or their standards are terrible or worse that I have read isn’t acceptable. Now when you see this going on is it judging people for asking why they do it? Would you be happier if I rolled over and didn’t have an opinion on this? I am getting the feeling some find it embarrassing for me to ask questions like this? |
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You do love to put those little subtle digs at the end don't you..... why is that?
They are not fact based digs are they... they are plucked out of the air assumption digs... they look like little subtle stabs at covert belittling to me. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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To Femmefatale
You asked
"I don’t see the relevance of it either to be honest, can i ask the OP what do you think that Married people who are single should do? Be honest and risk abuse or remain sneaky?
"
I would have always say be honest with people and I would include everyone even a unwitting partner but I doubt that will happen. You build trust on honesty however after reading some things on the forums over the last year I can see why many don’t. Its not just the men either I am sure there equal numbers of both sexes. I would have said the same with the barebackers too if not more so as its not just emotions you are playing with its health issues as well. But if people are told how to live their lives and they shouldn’t be doing this or that its just not right.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You do love to put those little subtle digs at the end don't you..... why is that?
They are not fact based digs are they... they are plucked out of the air assumption digs... they look like little subtle stabs at covert belittling to me."
That wasn't the intention it was an evaluation of reactions.
What was the bingo comment on the previous thread about? |
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"To Femmefatale
You asked
I don’t see the relevance of it either to be honest, can i ask the OP what do you think that Married people who are single should do? Be honest and risk abuse or remain sneaky?
I would have always say be honest with people and I would include everyone even a unwitting partner but I doubt that will happen. You build trust on honesty however after reading some things on the forums over the last year I can see why many don’t. Its not just the men either I am sure there equal numbers of both sexes. I would have said the same with the barebackers too if not more so as its not just emotions you are playing with its health issues as well. But if people are told how to live their lives and they shouldn’t be doing this or that its just not right.
"
I dont think its a case of people telling others how to live thier lives more stating how they live theirs and thier opinions
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"To Femmefatale
You asked
I don’t see the relevance of it either to be honest, can i ask the OP what do you think that Married people who are single should do? Be honest and risk abuse or remain sneaky?
I would have always say be honest with people and I would include everyone even a unwitting partner but I doubt that will happen. You build trust on honesty however after reading some things on the forums over the last year I can see why many don’t. Its not just the men either I am sure there equal numbers of both sexes. I would have said the same with the barebackers too if not more so as its not just emotions you are playing with its health issues as well. But if people are told how to live their lives and they shouldn’t be doing this or that its just not right.
I dont think its a case of people telling others how to live thier lives more stating how they live theirs and thier opinions
"
I would agree to some extent but people don't say 'I do this or I do that and that's how I live my life' they say 'You should do this or that' and that's very different. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To Femmefatale
You asked
I don’t see the relevance of it either to be honest, can i ask the OP what do you think that Married people who are single should do? Be honest and risk abuse or remain sneaky?
I would have always say be honest with people and I would include everyone even a unwitting partner but I doubt that will happen. You build trust on honesty however after reading some things on the forums over the last year I can see why many don’t. Its not just the men either I am sure there equal numbers of both sexes. I would have said the same with the barebackers too if not more so as its not just emotions you are playing with its health issues as well. But if people are told how to live their lives and they shouldn’t be doing this or that its just not right.
"
So correct me if im wrong as im sure you will but are you not telling people by what you have just said how they should to reply to posts?? |
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"You do love to put those little subtle digs at the end don't you..... why is that?
They are not fact based digs are they... they are plucked out of the air assumption digs... they look like little subtle stabs at covert belittling to me.
That wasn't the intention it was an evaluation of reactions.
What was the bingo comment on the previous thread about?"
Hmmm how easy it is to write one thing and yet mean another.... you say evaluate I read belittling... potato potarto.
You read agressive, I say passionate.... after all when morals are brought into play the subject is often very emotive.
Bingo... nail on the head... I agree...  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"To Femmefatale
You asked
I don’t see the relevance of it either to be honest, can i ask the OP what do you think that Married people who are single should do? Be honest and risk abuse or remain sneaky?
I would have always say be honest with people and I would include everyone even a unwitting partner but I doubt that will happen. You build trust on honesty however after reading some things on the forums over the last year I can see why many don’t. Its not just the men either I am sure there equal numbers of both sexes. I would have said the same with the barebackers too if not more so as its not just emotions you are playing with its health issues as well. But if people are told how to live their lives and they shouldn’t be doing this or that its just not right.
So correct me if im wrong as im sure you will but are you not telling people by what you have just said how they should to reply to posts??"
When someone calls at your door cold calling do you say no thank you I dont want that or do you shout and swear and tell them they are a disgrace for knocking at your door?
Ok maybe that's not a good example. What i am saying is its fine to have an opinion, its fine to have one opposing others. However when someone gets aggressive and try s to force their opinion on other people then its not so good.
you see people post on a topic with sarcasm, and not the nicest comments then 20 mins later they come back and do the same again and it goes on and on.
Now they may have a good reason for doing this as i don't see it. All i see is at times is people taking great pleasure in pushing their moral _iews on others and i just don't get it. The only answer i come to is some people actually enjoy putting others down and nobody has yet given a better answer. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You do love to put those little subtle digs at the end don't you..... why is that?
They are not fact based digs are they... they are plucked out of the air assumption digs... they look like little subtle stabs at covert belittling to me.
That wasn't the intention it was an evaluation of reactions.
What was the bingo comment on the previous thread about?
Hmmm how easy it is to write one thing and yet mean another.... you say evaluate I read belittling... potato potarto.
You read agressive, I say passionate.... after all when morals are brought into play the subject is often very emotive.
Bingo... nail on the head... I agree... "
Morals are an emotive subject true but they can also be used as a tool to make one person feel superior over another.
Honest well that a mood point and are people ever truly honest.
The Bingo comment I did wonder if you would reply honestly. Thanks. |
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" The only answer i come to is some people actually enjoy putting others down and nobody has yet given a better answer."
A better answer? tut tut 'better'? You're doing it again.... covert belittling.
May be no one has given an answer you like more than your own...but there have been lots of truthful answers.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" The only answer i come to is some people actually enjoy putting others down and nobody has yet given a better answer.
A better answer? tut tut 'better'? You're doing it again.... covert belittling.
May be no one has given an answer you like more than your own...but there have been lots of truthful answers.
"
So are you saying people who put others down on threads do not get pleasure from doing so? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As i said earlier you are dealing with real people some are tolerant some are not
Swingers are real people
You would have the same conversation in a pub as you would on a swinging forum some would agree some would not some would be sarcastic
No different than real life
Your thread was inspired by the cheating thread (i use the term loosely as i know thats not as it started)
As i said on the last thread if people want to post controversial threads they should be prepared for controversial answers
Thats life unfortunately
Yes some do go over the top ill grant you but having said that they have passionate _iews is that wrong??
I think we are all losing track slowly at the original point and cause of this thread
The moralistic high ground is high for some and neither you or I will ever change that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" The only answer i come to is some people actually enjoy putting others down and nobody has yet given a better answer.
A better answer? tut tut 'better'? You're doing it again.... covert belittling.
May be no one has given an answer you like more than your own...but there have been lots of truthful answers.
So are you saying people who put others down on threads do not get pleasure from doing so? "
Actually no i dont think that personally
Maybe thats how it seems but the written word is a lot more difficult than the face to face verbal word and some get frustrated that they cant seem to get their point across which may sometimes translate to enjoyment to some |
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" The only answer i come to is some people actually enjoy putting others down and nobody has yet given a better answer.
A better answer? tut tut 'better'? You're doing it again.... covert belittling.
May be no one has given an answer you like more than your own...but there have been lots of truthful answers.
So are you saying people who put others down on threads do not get pleasure from doing so? "
Nice side step of the 'better' comment there.
To answer your new question... I am sure a few do, sometimes, depending who they are debating with or on what subject.... that and your question is now very leading, as you ask specifically about 'put downs' and that is different to your earlier points and comments.... anyway...
However, on an emotive subject such as 'cheating married folk are they scum or not'... there will be a lot of people talking from the heart with passion, with emotion, with rage even... because they believe so strongly in what they are saying. Is that really so hard to grasp?
So let's get back to some of the things you were saying on the other thread... why do you find it so odd or unexpected for people on a swinging site to judge other people? What is it about swingers which makes you think they should be different to the rest of society? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As i said earlier you are dealing with real people some are tolerant some are not
Swingers are real people
You would have the same conversation in a pub as you would on a swinging forum some would agree some would not some would be sarcastic
No different than real life
Your thread was inspired by the cheating thread (i use the term loosely as i know thats not as it started)
As i said on the last thread if people want to post controversial threads they should be prepared for controversial answers
Thats life unfortunately
Yes some do go over the top ill grant you but having said that they have passionate _iews is that wrong??
I think we are all losing track slowly at the original point and cause of this thread
The moralistic high ground is high for some and neither you or I will ever change that "
Right lets get things very clear as I have said on a number of occasions but you have failed to pick up on things.
I have watched the forums on and off for a while and seen the watcher threads and seen people come out and post on various topics. The thread is not based on any other or any particular comment or person but on an over _iew gained by watching how people react to different groups. Anything from bi men not stating they are Bi, through people wanting to name and shame and being told in no uncertain terms why not through to people who are attached not saying so and the one that I found most aggressive were the bareback threads. But there are many more
Now what perplexes me is the fact that swinging is not high on popularity with the press. Its maligned and there are numerous cases of people being outed and treat pretty badly. I see threads go up about this and sympathy is given and so it should.
Then is like flipping a coin as when people feel swingers are badly done to as a group many then relish in doing the same to minority groups within swinging. You would think there would be some understanding and maybe not acceptance I have been genuinely shocked by how aggressive people can get.
Im not trying to change how people react because its not possible for me to do so but I am and have asked what drives people do do it to try and see if there is a specific reason.
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"
Im not trying to change how people react because its not possible for me to do so but I am and have asked what drives people do do it to try and see if there is a specific reason.
"
How on earth do you expect people to give a specific answer to a generalised question?
How I post on one thread will be different to another, in the main because they will be different subjects. My motivation, how I express myself, the force behind the typing, will all be different depending on the actual subject of each thread. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Of course there is no specific reason
We are just all human
We have all been bought up differently we have all lead different lives and experienced different things
Things have hurt us
Things have shaped us
We are all different because of it
If you are looking for a specific you may as well look for a needle in a haystack |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Im not trying to change how people react because its not possible for me to do so but I am and have asked what drives people do do it to try and see if there is a specific reason.
How on earth do you expect people to give a specific answer to a generalised question?
How I post on one thread will be different to another, in the main because they will be different subjects. My motivation, how I express myself, the force behind the typing, will all be different depending on the actual subject of each thread."
There may be one reason there may be 5 I don't know that's why I asked. However the initial question was not about a single issue it was why people felt the need to take the moral high ground and tell people how to live their life and do it forcefully rather than advise or give a _iewpoint but in an advisory capacity without pushing a moral issue.
I think this thread has been more specific than a lot but realise it wont suit everyone no matter how it is put across. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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we are all individuals with feelings emotions that can be listened _iewed and respected we are loosley grouped as swingers within society but each one of us unique with our own taste _iews on morality but this is simply all down too personal choice hey arnt we all adults here for healthy fun yea ha  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some take the moralistic high ground simply because you are dealing with people
and emotions
You may as well ask the question why are we here
Everyone will give a completely different answer based on their life experience and knowledge |
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Will you be answering this one? ....
"
So let's get back to some of the things you were saying on the other thread... why do you find it so odd or unexpected for people on a swinging site to judge other people? What is it about swingers which makes you think they should be different to the rest of society?"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Upon reading this thread, the OP reminds me of someone I work with, who, whenever I get a little bit more heated/passionate/emotive etc etc about something, automatically says to me "calm down, why are you getting so worked up" and not in a nice way - she automatically makes herself look better, cause how can I react to that?! I either calm down, in which case she can say she "helped" diffuse the sitaution or I do the automatic reaction and get more emotive/passionate etc in telling her that I am calm (well I was!!) and at the end of it look a bit of an idiot!!! By the way the "questions and answers" are phrased, the OP is trying to come across as a "voice for all" and if anyone dare suggest anything opposing that, then they have by the very fact they have opposed, done exactly what he said they would do!!! So it may not be a "moralistic high ground" the OP is standing on, but I do believe he doesn't think he stands next to me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the Op has made some very good points, unless I'm mistaken I don't think he has suggested anywhere that people should not have morals.
He does however seem to suggest that because Swingers act in a way that 'Joe Public' may find amoral, Swingers should have more of an appreciation of exclusion and being victims of others taking the moral high ground. He appears to have hoped this would make a swingers forum more tolerant and sensitive to people being victimised. He's not the first to have 'hoped' this would be the case. I respect him for arguing his case in as articulate and at times forceful way...........
But, therein lies the conundrum, in doing so the Op is not only passing judgement but as a result also taking a moral high ground.
Those reading this thread will take a side based on which argument is closest to their own judgements and individual moral code.
That is the whole point of a debate or a forum especially one that tries to get through to peoples real core beliefs and opinions on emotive subjects.
Op - I think you've made some very valid points and have enjoyed much of this debate, I do however respectfully suggest that it's naive to hope that passionate debate could exist on these pages without people attempting to take the moral high ground. Some in a way that is more sensitive and articulate, others more forthright and abrasive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I do agree that some people can be offensive in putting their point across, but I do genuinely believe that in most cases it's not intended to cause offence, but out of passion or commitment to a subject. To take cheating as an example, I personally hate cheating as I would hate to learn that someone I was in a committed relationship with was lying to me and seeing other partners behind my back. For me personally this would destroy a relationship as I'm not the forgive and forget type when I've been hurt...some however are and that is their personal choice. I do feel quite strongly about it and so I never knowingly meet someone who's has a partner that is in the dark. I did once find out a meet did have a partner and young children and so cut off contact with him, which he felt I was in the wrong for doing as he claimed it was none of my business...maybe to some I took the moral high ground there, but I stand by my decision.
As for expecting a group if people to be completely accepting of the behaviour of others within the group, that's rarely happens. Prisons often have different areas for those who have committed different crimes due to some kind of 'criminal code'. Someone who has mugged an elderly lady will be looked down on by someone who mugged a fit and healthy 30 year old man...the crime is the same but the context is different and so one may deem them self to be better than the other, whereas both were in the wrong in the eyes of society.
I'm not for a second suggesting swingers are criminals by the way, just taking things out of the swinging context! Nor am I saying we shouldn't be tolerant of other people's opinion, but why should it be expected because we all share the common ground of swinging? The swinging shouldn't come into the debate really, respect for others and their opinions has nothing to do with sexual preferences and perversions! Forums on most types of sites will contain similar types of thread, just with a different backdrop x |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I think the Op has made some very good points, unless I'm mistaken I don't think he has suggested anywhere that people should not have morals.
He does however seem to suggest that because Swingers act in a way that 'Joe Public' may find amoral, Swingers should have more of an appreciation of exclusion and being victims of others taking the moral high ground. He appears to have hoped this would make a swingers forum more tolerant and sensitive to people being victimised. He's not the first to have 'hoped' this would be the case. I respect him for arguing his case in as articulate and at times forceful way...........
But, therein lies the conundrum, in doing so the Op is not only passing judgement but as a result also taking a moral high ground.
Those reading this thread will take a side based on which argument is closest to their own judgements and individual moral code.
That is the whole point of a debate or a forum especially one that tries to get through to peoples real core beliefs and opinions on emotive subjects.
Op - I think you've made some very valid points and have enjoyed much of this debate, I do however respectfully suggest that it's naive to hope that passionate debate could exist on these pages without people attempting to take the moral high ground. Some in a way that is more sensitive and articulate, others more forthright and abrasive. "
Up to a point I agree with you..... however there is a huge difference between being amoral because we are on a swinging site... and expecting people to leave their morals behind just because it happens to be a swinging site....
and i think that is perception of people in "certain" positions where they like to use words such as "honest" and "genuine"... and expected people to go "there there there"... where as others see the irony in it... and will call it like they see it...
i like the mix of people... if i see BS I will call a spade a spade... some are fluffy.. others are not....
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
This is why there should be a forum search button on profiles 
That really would be useful.
Wolf
i have asked admin...maybe its time to find the thread again. "
go for it.. you bump it and I'll +1 it
Wolf
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I do agree that some people can be offensive in putting their point across, but I do genuinely believe that in most cases it's not intended to cause offence, but out of passion or commitment to a subject. To take cheating as an example, I personally hate cheating as I would hate to learn that someone I was in a committed relationship with was lying to me and seeing other partners behind my back. For me personally this would destroy a relationship as I'm not the forgive and forget type when I've been hurt...some however are and that is their personal choice. I do feel quite strongly about it and so I never knowingly meet someone who's has a partner that is in the dark. I did once find out a meet did have a partner and young children and so cut off contact with him, which he felt I was in the wrong for doing as he claimed it was none of my business...maybe to some I took the moral high ground there, but I stand by my decision.
As for expecting a group if people to be completely accepting of the behaviour of others within the group, that's rarely happens. Prisons often have different areas for those who have committed different crimes due to some kind of 'criminal code'. Someone who has mugged an elderly lady will be looked down on by someone who mugged a fit and healthy 30 year old man...the crime is the same but the context is different and so one may deem them self to be better than the other, whereas both were in the wrong in the eyes of society.
I'm not for a second suggesting swingers are criminals by the way, just taking things out of the swinging context! Nor am I saying we shouldn't be tolerant of other people's opinion, but why should it be expected because we all share the common ground of swinging? The swinging shouldn't come into the debate really, respect for others and their opinions has nothing to do with sexual preferences and perversions! Forums on most types of sites will contain similar types of thread, just with a different backdrop x"
Brilliant post |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the Op has made some very good points, unless I'm mistaken I don't think he has suggested anywhere that people should not have morals.
He does however seem to suggest that because Swingers act in a way that 'Joe Public' may find amoral, Swingers should have more of an appreciation of exclusion and being victims of others taking the moral high ground. He appears to have hoped this would make a swingers forum more tolerant and sensitive to people being victimised. He's not the first to have 'hoped' this would be the case. I respect him for arguing his case in as articulate and at times forceful way...........
But, therein lies the conundrum, in doing so the Op is not only passing judgement but as a result also taking a moral high ground.
Those reading this thread will take a side based on which argument is closest to their own judgements and individual moral code.
That is the whole point of a debate or a forum especially one that tries to get through to peoples real core beliefs and opinions on emotive subjects.
Op - I think you've made some very valid points and have enjoyed much of this debate, I do however respectfully suggest that it's naive to hope that passionate debate could exist on these pages without people attempting to take the moral high ground. Some in a way that is more sensitive and articulate, others more forthright and abrasive.
Up to a point I agree with you..... however there is a huge difference between being amoral because we are on a swinging site... and expecting people to leave their morals behind just because it happens to be a swinging site....
and i think that is perception of people in "certain" positions where they like to use words such as "honest" and "genuine"... and expected people to go "there there there"... where as others see the irony in it... and will call it like they see it...
i like the mix of people... if i see BS I will call a spade a spade... some are fluffy.. others are not....
"
I don't believe anybody is amoral because their on a swingers site and I don't think anyone has suggested that morals should be left behind when becoming a swinger. So I'm not clear what part you disagree with. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some people do it and don't think, some people think about it and don't do it, others just debate and talk about it. Eish! I died of boredom and was reincarnated as a news paper. Next topic a hundred and one things to do with an old news paper. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If the OP is judging people for being judgemental, does that make him judgemental himself? Do I judge him for this? No, because I'm not judgemental. Did I spell judgemental right? I'm a little tipsy and not sure. Please feel free to judge my spelling and grammer xxxxxxxxx  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Really, who cares? 
After circa 200 posts....take a wild guess.
Ok, but why?
Wny not?"
Shush you, you are so way not too big to go over my knee, young miss. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If the OP is judging people for being judgemental, does that make him judgemental himself? Do I judge him for this? No, because I'm not judgemental. Did I spell judgemental right? I'm a little tipsy and not sure. Please feel free to judge my spelling and grammer xxxxxxxxx "
I judge you as someone that does not require judging! You got the spelling right btw
And you do raise a fair point |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just humming a little scottish ditty to myself, which isn't bad seeing as I'm almost all of me sassenach...
You take the moralistic high road
and I'll take the sleazy low road
and I'll be at the clinic before ye
....
Wolf
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just humming a little scottish ditty to myself, which isn't bad seeing as I'm almost all of me sassenach...
You take the moralistic high road
and I'll take the sleazy low road
and I'll be at the clinic before ye
....
Wolf
"
Betty Ford? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the OP made some good points in posts and its good to get the brain working here .. lots judge people here on there words its a forum and some are better then others at posting so really its cyber land .. people can hide and be what thay wish . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If the OP is judging people for being judgemental, does that make him judgemental himself? Do I judge him for this? No, because I'm not judgemental. Did I spell judgemental right? I'm a little tipsy and not sure. Please feel free to judge my spelling and grammer xxxxxxxxx
Its grammar   "
hahaha ooops xx  |
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