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Creating a couple

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast

Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions!

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By *he Silver FuxMan  over a year ago

Uttoxeter


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions! "

There’s nothing wrong with this in my opinion as long as you make your FB / FwB status clear in the profile. There are many couples who only want to invite / play with other married or committed partners. Also at clubs on couples / single fem nights, having the male behaving as a single isn’t acceptable...

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By *azmar62Couple  over a year ago

Hinckley

Go for it guys. You are doing nothing wrong, you are both adults and you obviously adore each other as true friends should. We’ve only one reservation? Have you considered the possibility that may be having sex and you’ll both fall into the each other trap, how strong is this friendship. Other than this, party on guys. X

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions! "

If you're going to clubs and parties together as friends I can't see an issue with it. However if you're not having sex with each other, are you looking to meet individuals or other couples as a couple because I'm unsure how that dynamic would work...

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions!

There’s nothing wrong with this in my opinion as long as you make your FB / FwB status clear in the profile. There are many couples who only want to invite / play with other married or committed partners. Also at clubs on couples / single fem nights, having the male behaving as a single isn’t acceptable..."

I'm not sure what the male behaving as a single male at a club means (neither of us have attended any, yet).

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions!

If you're going to clubs and parties together as friends I can't see an issue with it. However if you're not having sex with each other, are you looking to meet individuals or other couples as a couple because I'm unsure how that dynamic would work..."

No we aren't completely sure what our own dynamic would be. We've really only touched on the idea and discussed it briefly. However I did say I would ask advice from experienced people. We are meeting this evening for a catch up.

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By *emini ManMan  over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions!

There’s nothing wrong with this in my opinion as long as you make your FB / FwB status clear in the profile. There are many couples who only want to invite / play with other married or committed partners. Also at clubs on couples / single fem nights, having the male behaving as a single isn’t acceptable...

I'm not sure what the male behaving as a single male at a club means (neither of us have attended any, yet)."

I think what they meant was if having gone into the club as a couple you'd then go your separate ways and play as singles - because on a couples only night that would be frowned on.

Whilst there's nothing at all wrong with what you suggest in principle what I'm struggling with is what would be the point of it if you're not having sex together- would you be looking to meet other couples and purely swap without you having sex with each other? Just play wing man and woman at clubs? Something else?

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By *orticiaWoman  over a year ago

Wirral


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions!

There’s nothing wrong with this in my opinion as long as you make your FB / FwB status clear in the profile. There are many couples who only want to invite / play with other married or committed partners. Also at clubs on couples / single fem nights, having the male behaving as a single isn’t acceptable...

I'm not sure what the male behaving as a single male at a club means (neither of us have attended any, yet)."

On events where it’s couples / sf’s only, if couples arrive & then split off as single males & single females, the dynamic of the night is completely altered, because the event is not meant to be for single males. These events are usually attended by couples who either like to play with other couples or single females, or group play, but aren’t interested in single males.

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Go for it guys. You are doing nothing wrong, you are both adults and you obviously adore each other as true friends should. We’ve only one reservation? Have you considered the possibility that may be having sex and you’ll both fall into the each other trap, how strong is this friendship. Other than this, party on guys. X "

Thank you. He's my work husband and best friend. We are pretty solid. It's literally just been a passing conversation that we both agreed could be fun and would be worth further investigating.

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions!

There’s nothing wrong with this in my opinion as long as you make your FB / FwB status clear in the profile. There are many couples who only want to invite / play with other married or committed partners. Also at clubs on couples / single fem nights, having the male behaving as a single isn’t acceptable...

I'm not sure what the male behaving as a single male at a club means (neither of us have attended any, yet).

I think what they meant was if having gone into the club as a couple you'd then go your separate ways and play as singles - because on a couples only night that would be frowned on.

Whilst there's nothing at all wrong with what you suggest in principle what I'm struggling with is what would be the point of it if you're not having sex together- would you be looking to meet other couples and purely swap without you having sex with each other? Just play wing man and woman at clubs? Something else?"

I don't think either of us are sure of our own dynamic we broached swinging in conversation and both wondered if we should, could and what would the entail with others clubs/parties etc. Hence asking questions to see where the land lies out in the big bad world in order to give ourselves enough information to be able to discuss what we would want from it and where we need to be in our own friendship. For the record he's a good wingman!

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By *orticiaWoman  over a year ago

Wirral


"Whilst there's nothing at all wrong with what you suggest in principle what I'm struggling with is what would be the point of it if you're not having sex together- would you be looking to meet other couples and purely swap without you having sex with each other? Just play wing man and woman at clubs? Something else?"

Ive got to say, I agree with Gemini on this ... I don’t see the benefit?

If it is to get into clubs for a couples rate & not have to pay the single male rate, but you’re going to play as singles inside, it’s a little dishonest. There are many profiles on here where the couple are not together, they’re just FWB’s or fuck buddies, but they do play with each other & as a couple. If your relationship is platonic, what dynamic are you looking for? Is it just a moral support thing - in which case why not just go as 2 singles?

It doesn’t seem to make much sense!

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By *emini ManMan  over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

I guess the question you need to ask yourselves is do you have any interest in being sexual with each other? If you do then setting up a couples profile would be a logical step.

If you don't then you need to think about what you'd expect from a couples profile and the dynamic that would work for you and be very clear about what it is on the profile if/when you create it.

The only way I could see it working, and even then it may be a little odd to some, would be if you were purely looking to "swap" with others where you played with the guy of the couple and your friend played with the lady.

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By *orticiaWoman  over a year ago

Wirral


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions!

There’s nothing wrong with this in my opinion as long as you make your FB / FwB status clear in the profile. There are many couples who only want to invite / play with other married or committed partners. Also at clubs on couples / single fem nights, having the male behaving as a single isn’t acceptable...

I'm not sure what the male behaving as a single male at a club means (neither of us have attended any, yet).

I think what they meant was if having gone into the club as a couple you'd then go your separate ways and play as singles - because on a couples only night that would be frowned on.

Whilst there's nothing at all wrong with what you suggest in principle what I'm struggling with is what would be the point of it if you're not having sex together- would you be looking to meet other couples and purely swap without you having sex with each other? Just play wing man and woman at clubs? Something else?

I don't think either of us are sure of our own dynamic we broached swinging in conversation and both wondered if we should, could and what would the entail with others clubs/parties etc. Hence asking questions to see where the land lies out in the big bad world in order to give ourselves enough information to be able to discuss what we would want from it and where we need to be in our own friendship. For the record he's a good wingman! "

Maybe just try as 2 singles for now to save creating confusion for others - figure out your dynamic & see how it goes. Then if you think a couples profile would work for you, do it!

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Whilst there's nothing at all wrong with what you suggest in principle what I'm struggling with is what would be the point of it if you're not having sex together- would you be looking to meet other couples and purely swap without you having sex with each other? Just play wing man and woman at clubs? Something else?

Ive got to say, I agree with Gemini on this ... I don’t see the benefit?

If it is to get into clubs for a couples rate & not have to pay the single male rate, but you’re going to play as singles inside, it’s a little dishonest. There are many profiles on here where the couple are not together, they’re just FWB’s or fuck buddies, but they do play with each other & as a couple. If your relationship is platonic, what dynamic are you looking for? Is it just a moral support thing - in which case why not just go as 2 singles?

It doesn’t seem to make much sense!"

No it's nothing to do with money, we are both solvent so that's not an issue it didn't and wouldn't ever come up in conversation.

It came up in conversation and I said I'd ask. We broached going as a couple and as singles. We stuck at couple, I perhaps should have said both in my original question.

But either way....

Thanks for the feedback.

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions!

There’s nothing wrong with this in my opinion as long as you make your FB / FwB status clear in the profile. There are many couples who only want to invite / play with other married or committed partners. Also at clubs on couples / single fem nights, having the male behaving as a single isn’t acceptable...

I'm not sure what the male behaving as a single male at a club means (neither of us have attended any, yet).

I think what they meant was if having gone into the club as a couple you'd then go your separate ways and play as singles - because on a couples only night that would be frowned on.

Whilst there's nothing at all wrong with what you suggest in principle what I'm struggling with is what would be the point of it if you're not having sex together- would you be looking to meet other couples and purely swap without you having sex with each other? Just play wing man and woman at clubs? Something else?

I don't think either of us are sure of our own dynamic we broached swinging in conversation and both wondered if we should, could and what would the entail with others clubs/parties etc. Hence asking questions to see where the land lies out in the big bad world in order to give ourselves enough information to be able to discuss what we would want from it and where we need to be in our own friendship. For the record he's a good wingman!

Maybe just try as 2 singles for now to save creating confusion for others - figure out your dynamic & see how it goes. Then if you think a couples profile would work for you, do it! "

Yes, perhaps best.

It's certainly given us food for thought.

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"I guess the question you need to ask yourselves is do you have any interest in being sexual with each other? If you do then setting up a couples profile would be a logical step.

If you don't then you need to think about what you'd expect from a couples profile and the dynamic that would work for you and be very clear about what it is on the profile if/when you create it.

The only way I could see it working, and even then it may be a little odd to some, would be if you were purely looking to "swap" with others where you played with the guy of the couple and your friend played with the lady."

I guess we are just tiptoeing round at the moment, haven't really discussed the nitty gritty. Just a wouldn't it be fun if... conversation.

Hmm yes, that would be the only way it would work and would appear quite odd I'm sure.

Either way it will open up a different dynamic to us as friends.

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By *amissCouple  over a year ago

chelmsford

Depends what you are both expecting from this. You need to have the discussion about your boundaries and make them clear to anyone you meet. Good luck with it

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Depends what you are both expecting from this. You need to have the discussion about your boundaries and make them clear to anyone you meet. Good luck with it "

Thank you!

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple  over a year ago

London


"I guess the question you need to ask yourselves is do you have any interest in being sexual with each other? If you do then setting up a couples profile would be a logical step.

If you don't then you need to think about what you'd expect from a couples profile and the dynamic that would work for you and be very clear about what it is on the profile if/when you create it.

The only way I could see it working, and even then it may be a little odd to some, would be if you were purely looking to "swap" with others where you played with the guy of the couple and your friend played with the lady.

I guess we are just tiptoeing round at the moment, haven't really discussed the nitty gritty. Just a wouldn't it be fun if... conversation.

Hmm yes, that would be the only way it would work and would appear quite odd I'm sure.

Either way it will open up a different dynamic to us as friends.

"

Daft question maybe, but if you really like each other and are willing to have sex with relative strangers, why will you not have sex with each other?

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By *uckslut and MCouple  over a year ago

Poole

I read the post, then started reading replies. I got confused do went back to the post.

My take on this, your new into swinging? 6 month old account no veri's. Are you in this for the socail side? If so is he taking advantage of your "couples account / status he can go to events and play as a single man? We have come across this clubs.

As a couple we can a whole pool of single men to choose from. Not being big headed but fact on Fab. We goto couples events to increase our chances to play with fems. Many a time we have found this type of couple in a club. Fem sat at bar not playing, male playing as single. I know theres no pressure to play, but find this very frustrating.

We are a couple in real life, we play as a couple during swinging. My fella has his own single account, to play as a single fella. So others are clear if they are getting a single or couple with us.

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By *emini ManMan  over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I guess the question you need to ask yourselves is do you have any interest in being sexual with each other? If you do then setting up a couples profile would be a logical step.

If you don't then you need to think about what you'd expect from a couples profile and the dynamic that would work for you and be very clear about what it is on the profile if/when you create it.

The only way I could see it working, and even then it may be a little odd to some, would be if you were purely looking to "swap" with others where you played with the guy of the couple and your friend played with the lady.

I guess we are just tiptoeing round at the moment, haven't really discussed the nitty gritty. Just a wouldn't it be fun if... conversation.

Hmm yes, that would be the only way it would work and would appear quite odd I'm sure.

Either way it will open up a different dynamic to us as friends.

"

In all honesty,and this is NOT a criticism more an observation, and I know you're just gauging opinion and thoughts here, but I think you possibly need to take a step backwards and focus on what each of your expectations of your friendship are as a first step. Ask yourselves these questions:

Do you want it to be sexual?

If so do you want it to be a relationship or just FB/FWB?

Do you want to be exclusive to one another, and only play together?

And many others along the same lines - only once you have answered those can you then consider taking the next step with a view to how you meet/play as a couple.

However it pans out though....good luck

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"I read the post, then started reading replies. I got confused do went back to the post.

My take on this, your new into swinging? 6 month old account no veri's. Are you in this for the socail side? If so is he taking advantage of your "couples account / status he can go to events and play as a single man? We have come across this clubs.

As a couple we can a whole pool of single men to choose from. Not being big headed but fact on Fab. We goto couples events to increase our chances to play with fems. Many a time we have found this type of couple in a club. Fem sat at bar not playing, male playing as single. I know theres no pressure to play, but find this very frustrating.

We are a couple in real life, we play as a couple during swinging. My fella has his own single account, to play as a single fella. So others are clear if they are getting a single or couple with us.

"

No I'm not new. I was on three years, left a year, back. Choose this time to take part on the forum and yes I've veris, I choose not to show them. Although I'm not sure what that has to do with my question.

He has his own account as a single and funnily enough he too is verified.

Neither of us are "new".

We would just like to perhaps switch things up together.

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"I guess the question you need to ask yourselves is do you have any interest in being sexual with each other? If you do then setting up a couples profile would be a logical step.

If you don't then you need to think about what you'd expect from a couples profile and the dynamic that would work for you and be very clear about what it is on the profile if/when you create it.

The only way I could see it working, and even then it may be a little odd to some, would be if you were purely looking to "swap" with others where you played with the guy of the couple and your friend played with the lady.

I guess we are just tiptoeing round at the moment, haven't really discussed the nitty gritty. Just a wouldn't it be fun if... conversation.

Hmm yes, that would be the only way it would work and would appear quite odd I'm sure.

Either way it will open up a different dynamic to us as friends.

In all honesty,and this is NOT a criticism more an observation, and I know you're just gauging opinion and thoughts here, but I think you possibly need to take a step backwards and focus on what each of your expectations of your friendship are as a first step. Ask yourselves these questions:

Do you want it to be sexual?

If so do you want it to be a relationship or just FB/FWB?

Do you want to be exclusive to one another, and only play together?

And many others along the same lines - only once you have answered those can you then consider taking the next step with a view to how you meet/play as a couple.

However it pans out though....good luck "

Thank you, always good to get a fresh set of eyes and yes these are clearly questions we need to ask and discuss.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

If you're not in a sexual relationship I would suggest going to the club together as 2 singles or maybe just phone or message the club, explain your situation and see what they say. XXX

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"I guess the question you need to ask yourselves is do you have any interest in being sexual with each other? If you do then setting up a couples profile would be a logical step.

If you don't then you need to think about what you'd expect from a couples profile and the dynamic that would work for you and be very clear about what it is on the profile if/when you create it.

The only way I could see it working, and even then it may be a little odd to some, would be if you were purely looking to "swap" with others where you played with the guy of the couple and your friend played with the lady.

I guess we are just tiptoeing round at the moment, haven't really discussed the nitty gritty. Just a wouldn't it be fun if... conversation.

Hmm yes, that would be the only way it would work and would appear quite odd I'm sure.

Either way it will open up a different dynamic to us as friends.

Daft question maybe, but if you really like each other and are willing to have sex with relative strangers, why will you not have sex with each other? "

I've no straight forward answer that doesn't sound like a plethora of excuses.

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"If you're not in a sexual relationship I would suggest going to the club together as 2 singles or maybe just phone or message the club, explain your situation and see what they say. XXX"

Thank you!

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By *essandpatCouple  over a year ago

chester

I'd think about what it is you both want, are you looking to try mmf or even ffm, or would like an nother couple to join you both, or would both of you play separately? X

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By *uckslut and MCouple  over a year ago

Poole


"I read the post, then started reading replies. I got confused do went back to the post.

My take on this, your new into swinging? 6 month old account no veri's. Are you in this for the socail side? If so is he taking advantage of your "couples account / status he can go to events and play as a single man? We have come across this clubs.

As a couple we can a whole pool of single men to choose from. Not being big headed but fact on Fab. We goto couples events to increase our chances to play with fems. Many a time we have found this type of couple in a club. Fem sat at bar not playing, male playing as single. I know theres no pressure to play, but find this very frustrating.

We are a couple in real life, we play as a couple during swinging. My fella has his own single account, to play as a single fella. So others are clear if they are getting a single or couple with us.

No I'm not new. I was on three years, left a year, back. Choose this time to take part on the forum and yes I've veris, I choose not to show them. Although I'm not sure what that has to do with my question.

He has his own account as a single and funnily enough he too is verified.

Neither of us are "new".

We would just like to perhaps switch things up together."

The two questions were, are you in it just for the socail side? Is is he taking advantage of a couples account status?

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By *hortfuse OP   Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"I read the post, then started reading replies. I got confused do went back to the post.

My take on this, your new into swinging? 6 month old account no veri's. Are you in this for the socail side? If so is he taking advantage of your "couples account / status he can go to events and play as a single man? We have come across this clubs.

As a couple we can a whole pool of single men to choose from. Not being big headed but fact on Fab. We goto couples events to increase our chances to play with fems. Many a time we have found this type of couple in a club. Fem sat at bar not playing, male playing as single. I know theres no pressure to play, but find this very frustrating.

We are a couple in real life, we play as a couple during swinging. My fella has his own single account, to play as a single fella. So others are clear if they are getting a single or couple with us.

No I'm not new. I was on three years, left a year, back. Choose this time to take part on the forum and yes I've veris, I choose not to show them. Although I'm not sure what that has to do with my question.

He has his own account as a single and funnily enough he too is verified.

Neither of us are "new".

We would just like to perhaps switch things up together.

The two questions were, are you in it just for the socail side? Is is he taking advantage of a couples account status? "

No

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By *rkeb3Man  over a year ago

east Lancashire road

awkward really

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By *rightonsteveMan  over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

You can easily start a couples profile but I would refer to your single profiles in it (if you keep them) and also explain what the dynamic is and what people can expect.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I read the post, then started reading replies. I got confused do went back to the post.

My take on this, your new into swinging? 6 month old account no veri's. Are you in this for the socail side? If so is he taking advantage of your "couples account / status he can go to events and play as a single man? We have come across this clubs.

As a couple we can a whole pool of single men to choose from. Not being big headed but fact on Fab. We goto couples events to increase our chances to play with fems. Many a time we have found this type of couple in a club. Fem sat at bar not playing, male playing as single. I know theres no pressure to play, but find this very frustrating.

We are a couple in real life, we play as a couple during swinging. My fella has his own single account, to play as a single fella. So others are clear if they are getting a single or couple with us.

"

Good point. I have met a few men who have had no success as a single male but happy to ask me to compile a couples profile and/or go to clubs and parties with them purely as a gateway into meeting other single females and couples. To me it's feeling used and not for me.

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By *orningtonCroissantMan  over a year ago

notts and humberside


"Question:

My gorgeous best friend and I (he's delicious) discussed going to parties/clubs/m&g as a couple. Im socially a little awkward and would never go anywhere like that alone and I really want to enjoy every aspect of fabswingers and what it has to offer.

Is this doable, normal, a little dishonest? We live in each others pockets we just aren't having sex.

I trust him implicitly.

We would like to create a couple profile and see where it takes us.

Is there a wrong way to do this, a right way? Anyone done this before?

So many questions! "

I guess as long as you both are honest about how you feel. In these kinds of relationships one of you almost always has unrequited feelings for the other, and Sex clubs will expose that if you are in a situation where one of you wants to fuck someone. Take it from me, I know from experience

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