FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swingers Chat > chameleons - £30 entry

chameleons - £30 entry

By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

how does £30 entry for single guys compare with other swingers clubs.

Wasn't expecting it to be quite that much sicne there are no guarantees with chameleons compared with retro or private club which is only a tenner more

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

guarantee of what???!!!

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By *ezebelWoman over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

Nope no guarantee - have you considered a prostitute?

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

pudd

guarantee of not sitting around all night watching other people shagging

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

jez

i've considered a prostitute on many occasions

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Wasn't expecting it to be quite that much sicne there are no guarantees with chameleons compared with retro or private club which is only a tenner more"

You should stick to the clubs where they pay the girls to be there for you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

_etsome...

if i met a bloke in a club who thought he was guaranteed me...well lets just say...i'd rather die than let him touch me...

if a nice respectful guy seemed to be getting pleasure out of watching me 'shag' as u so delicately put it...HE might stand a chance of being asked to join in.

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By *umpkinMan over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

Suggest you take a closer look not only at what other clubs charge and I think you`ll find they`re comparable to Chams. I also suggest you look at the facilities available to you at Chams, the two zaccuzzis, steam room and the sauna, free condoms if you`ve forgotten, reasonably priced soft drinks, good range of freshly cooked food, also at reasonable prices, I could go on!

Also, there`s no guarantee of a shag at any club unless they employ working girls to keep the single men happy as I understand Retro does/did.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

wow!! true charmer i am sure you will do well on here

you deserve exactly what you will get nothing no wonder men have a bad rep somtimes

embarresed to be male right now

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"how does £30 entry for single guys compare with other swingers clubs.

Wasn't expecting it to be quite that much sicne there are no guarantees with chameleons compared with retro or private club which is only a tenner more"

I think you're mixing up clubs with a different type of establishment - if you're seeking somewhere that offers guarantees, you're best off with a brothel.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

in swinging...inc clubs.....nothing is ever guaranteed

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"wow!! true charmer i am sure you will do well on here

you deserve exactly what you will get nothing no wonder men have a bad rep somtimes

embarresed to be male right now"

No need for you to be embarrassed.

Just him.

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

i dont really understand all the condemnation. I dont think i have been anything other than honest

All i have done is point out that for £40 at retro you can be sure of having sex. At a swingers club there is a chance you might go home disappointed. Now if some guy like is _ola cubes is going to pretend he isnt bothered if he goes to a swingers club and doesnt meet up with anyone - then i will call him a liar

i know that chameleons is different to retro - all im saying is that £30 is a lot to watch other people have sex and a quick dip in a jaccuzi. It just seems to me at £30 they dont really want single guys there. But if it a similar cost at other clubs i apologise

how much is it for couples

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i dont really understand all the condemnation. I dont think i have been anything other than honest

how much is it for couples

U seen to assume a lot when in honesty you have no clue about the swinging world....nothing ever is a sure thing is swinging.......

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By *iamondladyWoman over a year ago

titsville

You've forgotten to add the membership to that price if you can get one!

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"i dont really understand all the condemnation. I dont think i have been anything other than honest

how much is it for couples

Swinging isnt about guaranteed sex.i think you would be better elsewhere.

£30 is less than some clubs,more than others,but if you go with your attitude that women are there to satisfy your needs you are probably wasting your money.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"You've forgotten to add the membership to that price if you can get one!"

hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"wow!! true charmer i am sure you will do well on here

you deserve exactly what you will get nothing no wonder men have a bad rep somtimes

embarresed to be male right now"

Dont be, i think the all black avatar will appear soon

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It just seems to me at £30 they dont really want single guys there. But if it a similar cost at other clubs i apologise

How many hundreds of single men are on the waiting list for membership at Cham's???

They can't all be wrong.

Can they???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

£30 and its not like ur there for a cpl of hrs.....

honestly OP, ur not sounding great..Ive been to a few clubs, social events...and went home, shrugged my shoulders and go "och well"- maybe ur better attending greedygirls nites...again...there is no guarantees

lastly, I'd rater come home and wank to someone watching me on cam than visit a prostitute

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

to be fair i think a lot of single men that go there are of the same opinion, especially on party nights when membership is not needed

have lost count at the amout of 'been here bloody 30 mins and not so much as a blow job' conversations i have overheard

maybe it is the lies of retro and other clubs that reportedly employ women to have sex with the clientele are blurring the lines between the 2 types of club??

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"i dont really understand all the condemnation. I dont think i have been anything other than honest

how much is it for couples

The condemnation is because you're missing the point. you're effectively saying you walk into a club, pay your entry and think "Right, I'm her and paid - I don't intend to sit and watch, where's the women that will make my time (and money) worthwhile?"

And that is the exact reason why people are telling you you're better off elsewhere - irrespective of the price of whatever venue.

PS: For the record, £30 per single guy for any club (in my experience) is more than fair - I know one club that charges single girls £25, couples £55 and single guys £85. And yes, it was also a swingers club with "no guarantees"!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"£30 and its not like ur there for a cpl of hrs.....

lastly, I'd rater come home and wank to someone watching me on cam than visit a prostitute"

Waits for the wanking sesh then

lol

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

oudd

"'shag' as u so delicately put it...HE might stand a chance of being asked to join in."

i was being somewaht flippant when i said - "guarantee of not sitting around all night watching other people shagging" - but i didnt expect people to be so serious

if you struggle with the word 'shag' i dread to think what youd have thought if id used a sord starting with 'f'

im just really surprised that anyone is surprised that i might want to have sex at a swingers club - and £30 i quite a lot of money to not have sex

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

LOL @ guaranteed shags. I've been to a club and not had a shag either! It's a feckin' disgrace I tell ya! Me, a single woman, going home with nary a lick or fiddle.

I should ask for a refund!

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"LOL @ guaranteed shags. I've been to a club and not had a shag either! It's a feckin' disgrace I tell ya! Me, a single woman, going home with nary a lick or fiddle.

I should ask for a refund!

sorry, your cash refund has been allocated to my train fare home - but I refund in kind

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"£30 and its not like ur there for a cpl of hrs.....

lastly, I'd rater come home and wank to someone watching me on cam than visit a prostitute

Waits for the wanking sesh then

lol"

as long as ur beedy cum eyes are watching Mrs lol x

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"LOL @ guaranteed shags. I've been to a club and not had a shag either! It's a feckin' disgrace I tell ya! Me, a single woman, going home with nary a lick or fiddle.

I should ask for a refund!

sorry, your cash refund has been allocated to my train fare home - but I refund in kind

You can pay me back when you get up here. Isis is only £25, and I'll throw in a BJ for you. Think yourself lucky!

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"i dont really understand all the condemnation. I dont think i have been anything other than honest

how much is it for couples

"
you are missing the whole point of the experience its not just about sex if thats all you want get a prostitute.

me personally i dont go to clubs and my _iews on woman are very different from yours i like to spend time with a person see if there is somthing worth following up on. not get your drawers off n be thankful am giving you it.

to me your attitude stinks but thats me.

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

gemmima

"i dont really understand all the condemnation. I dont think i have been anything other than honest

how much is it for couples

Swinging isnt about guaranteed sex.i think you would be better elsewhere.

£30 is less than some clubs,more than others,but if you go with your attitude that women are there to satisfy your needs you are probably wasting your money.

what attitude - all ive said is that for £40 at retro a guy can have sex - and for £30 at chams he might not

have i said anything untrue?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Master Posting

£30 quid is worth it for a shag, most prossies will charge you twice that for a bj, having said that you dont need to buy the prossie a drink or make small talk so it has its advantages lol

Masterq81

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"oudd

'shag' as u so delicately put it...HE might stand a chance of being asked to join in.

i was being somewaht flippant when i said - "guarantee of not sitting around all night watching other people shagging" - but i didnt expect people to be so serious

if you struggle with the word 'shag' i dread to think what youd have thought if id used a sord starting with 'f'

im just really surprised that anyone is surprised that i might want to have sex at a swingers club - and £30 i quite a lot of money to not have sex

Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements.

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"gemmima

i dont really understand all the condemnation. I dont think i have been anything other than honest

how much is it for couples

Swinging isnt about guaranteed sex.i think you would be better elsewhere.

£30 is less than some clubs,more than others,but if you go with your attitude that women are there to satisfy your needs you are probably wasting your money.

what attitude - all ive said is that for £40 at retro a guy can have sex - and for £30 at chams he might not

have i said anything untrue?"

At the risk of sounding patronising:

If you want to enjoy what swingign is about and all it has to offer (sex or otherwise) without expecting it on a plate - then try a swing club.

If you however want a guarantee for your money, stick to prostitutes.

That's the difference and that's as simple as it is - if you can't see that then I don't think anyone can advise further, the price is irrelevant.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

OP... stick with your "guaranteed" club if i was you, at least then your not going to be left dissapointed!

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By *inktherapyCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

I've been to clubs as a single woman and a couple and not played either - such is life sometimes. Sometimes it's because all the offers I've had have been from men almost thinking I'll be 'gagging for it' from just about anyone because I'm at a club by myself.... uh... no..

£30 is not at all unreasonable for a single guy entry - basic economics and price vs. supply and demand

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"OP... stick with your "guaranteed" club if i was you, at least then your not going to be left dissapointed!

OP, you might also want to email all the "no guarantees" clubs out there to tell them you won't be visiting. the can save their space for others.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A night in Chams is whatever you make it If you sit in the corner and don't make the effort no chance, if you chat and be friendly and get to know people have a little flirt you are more likely to be invited in. If you come on too strong and pushy they will just tell you to F off. And from my experience there is no such thing as a bad night there and I have been going for past 3 years and it only gets better.

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By *weet threesome wifeCouple over a year ago

somewhere out there

well for us it will be our first time in aduld swing clubs next month i read club rules on both clubs we will be visiting, and i can tell u no 1 will be garunteed a shag not me unless hubby not other punters and thats the way it should be, i'f i wanna play with a single guy i will indicate it and hope to get a positive responce we will be paying in to as a couple and hope yes hope to get a lot of playin but if i dont fancy anyone i wont be i'm not under obligation, read club ruls may help xx

roll on next month

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By *inktherapyCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

what attitude - all ive said is that for £40 at retro a guy can have sex - and for £30 at chams he might not

But the women at Chams are there for fun and are free to choose who they want to have sex with... that's the whole point of swinging...

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

kola

"to me your attitude stinks but thats me"

ok i get it - your just not bothered if you go to a swingers club and never have sexual intercourse

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By *heRainManMan over a year ago

Warrington & Glasgow

"i dont really understand all the condemnation."

I don't think it's condemnation, I think it's surprise!

I'm surprised that you been on here for over a year without understanding the difference between a swinging club and a brothel! I haven't been to Retro or Private, but surely when you go to a club like that, you realise that, if you are not handing over cash directly to the girls, then they are being paid from what you hand over at the door? You don't say how often you've been to Chams, but do you always expect to "go home disappointed"? I'll accept that when I attend any club as a single, there's a chance that I'll go home without having had sex with others, but there's little chance that I'll go home without having enjoyed the facilities and enjoyed chatting with others there. I'd only "go home disappointed" if I was EXPECTING something in particular to happen and it didn't.

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"kola

"to me your attitude stinks but thats me"

ok i get it - your just not bothered if you go to a swingers club and never have sexual intercourse"

Well he's impressed me! You, on the other hand.....

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

testarossa

"oudd

'shag' as u so delicately put it...HE might stand a chance of being asked to join in.

i was being somewaht flippant when i said - "guarantee of not sitting around all night watching other people shagging" - but i didnt expect people to be so serious

if you struggle with the word 'shag' i dread to think what youd have thought if id used a sord starting with 'f'

im just really surprised that anyone is surprised that i might want to have sex at a swingers club - and £30 i quite a lot of money to not have sex

Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements."

misogenistic to want to have sex? - you have got a lot to learn about men love

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"i dont really understand all the condemnation. I dont think i have been anything other than honest

in which case I am one of those single guys that you can call in your words "a liar"...

when people ask me what is the biggest impediment to single guys in clubs I will say it is actually single guys who come in with the attitude of "well i have paid my money where is my shag and the action"

and then it is clubs like retro where they pay the girls to be there that create an illusion that this is the case with most clubs, when actually they are the exception rather than the norm....

can i let you into a secret... there are probably more couple out there that do and would consider playing with singles if the singles have the right attitude to begin with...

people who know me from clubs and from socials will tell you i am not that bothered about playing in clubs.. if it happens then it happens and that is a bonus.. if it does then i have still had a bloody good night with likeminded individuals and taken advantage of all the facilities...

I wouldn't be having a b'day do in a club if that wasn't otherwise....

nothing is guarenteed in swinging... if you are coming in with the attiude then you tend to get found out rather quickly....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"oudd

'shag' as u so delicately put it...HE might stand a chance of being asked to join in.

i was being somewaht flippant when i said - "guarantee of not sitting around all night watching other people shagging" - but i didnt expect people to be so serious

if you struggle with the word 'shag' i dread to think what youd have thought if id used a sord starting with 'f'

im just really surprised that anyone is surprised that i might want to have sex at a swingers club - and £30 i quite a lot of money to not have sex

HOW dare u?? you know NOTHING about me ! You dread to think about my response to the F word??

All I can say is think on m8 cos only in your DREAMS wud u ever get to find out lol

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By *ezebelWoman over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

"testarossa

misogenistic to want to have sex? - you have got a lot to learn about men love

hahaha testarossa thats given me the only laugh Ive had tonight

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By *inktherapyCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

misogenistic to want to have sex? - you have got a lot to learn about men love

misogyny is usually defined as a hatred of women..

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple over a year ago

Bolton

"testarossa

misogenistic to want to have sex? - you have got a lot to learn about men love

hahaha testarossa thats given me the only laugh Ive had tonight

Every day at some point the forums make me want to cry - usually laughing! We would play with more single guys in clubs if they had the right attitude! Some think that they will def 'get a shag' most just follow folks about without trying to engage any one in conversation, some do 'get it' but few and far between! Fabio is just one example of a guy who gets it! (probably in more than one way!) Z

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"testarossa

oudd

'shag' as u so delicately put it...HE might stand a chance of being asked to join in.

i was being somewaht flippant when i said - "guarantee of not sitting around all night watching other people shagging" - but i didnt expect people to be so serious

if you struggle with the word 'shag' i dread to think what youd have thought if id used a sord starting with 'f'

im just really surprised that anyone is surprised that i might want to have sex at a swingers club - and £30 i quite a lot of money to not have sex

Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements.

misogenistic to want to have sex? - you have got a lot to learn about men love

Maybe I have a lot to learn about men.

I am not short of offers to be tutored.

I like to fuck men that love to fuck women, not treat them as a commodity/vessel, which is how you came across to me in your post.

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"testarossa

misogenistic to want to have sex? - you have got a lot to learn about men love

hahaha testarossa thats given me the only laugh Ive had tonight

The way I see it - even if the OP paid only £10... scratch that.. £5... and still did not "get sex" he'd still have a go at the management for not ensuring he had a good time. But its ok, he'll never get it.

Testarossa - if you don't know anything about men... I think you know more about men that he does women.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

Can we please not resort to personal attacks?

Have an adult debate x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

misogenistic to want to have sex? - you have got a lot to learn about men love

misogyny is usually defined as a hatred of women.."

No I met miss soggy knees in a club in London.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple over a year ago

Bolton

I would say that if you want to swing, go to a swingers club, if you desperately need to get a shag - go to a prossie. Simple really. Z

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Hello O.P.

The thirty pounds is for the entrance to the club and the use of it's facilities.

The women there are visitors too and NOT facilities.

Pool, Changing, Rooms, Bar etc .... FAH SILLL ITTIESSSSSSSS.

Woman PERRRRRRSSSSONNNNNNNNN.

There....

Love x

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

_abio

"well i have paid my money where is my shag and the action"

i wouldnt go into a swingers club with that attitude- i'm just saying that for £40 at retro a guy can have sex - and that has to be weighed against the £30 you pay at chams to maybe just watch people having sex

"and then it is clubs like retro where they pay the girls to be there that create an illusion that this is the case with most clubs, when actually they are the exception rather than the norm"

i dont think anyone is under the impression that what happens at retro would be the norm at a swingers club

and if its mainly about the facilities then is £30 good value for 2 jacuzzis. Would any healthclub charge £30 day to use their facilities? Would anyone pay healclub membership of £1560 (£30 x52 weeks)

ps i just dont think im the woman hating, potential rapist im being portrayed as

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hello O.P.

The thirty pounds is for the entrance to the club and the use of it's facilities.

The women there are visitors too and NOT facilities.

Pool, Changing, Rooms, Bar etc .... FAH SILLL ITTIESSSSSSSS.

Woman PERRRRRRSSSSONNNNNNNNN.

There....

Love x "

GRANN I LOVE YOUUUUUU!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

£30 is very cheap for the blokes who got to lick niks pussy on fri night in chams,a hooker like her would cost £200.its a guarentee no single men will fuck her but males as part of a couple,she will let the right one. She does prefer ladies in the clubs though as she can have cock any night of the week.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple over a year ago

Lisburn

Went to our 1st club in august, and if it wasnt for the fact of some of the friends we had made through the forums, i dont think i would have had the nerve to go. The reasons being

1. we have no clubs over here, so had nothing to compere to

2. Because of people who think like the OP. I could never ever do anything because it was expected, that just puts me off. I dont and wont do pressure for love nor money.

Now i feel relaxed enough to go to a club again, knowing that if we want to play and there is someone there who wants to play with us then it will happen, if not its still nice to get out and meet people who are like minded.

If you go for a social night out at a club you pay to get in, the drinks are expensive and you no doubt will spend a hell of alot more money. However you are still not guarented a shag at the end of it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am a single girl and a fiver is a bargain

but then I am only a girl

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple over a year ago

Lisburn

"_abio

well i have paid my money where is my shag and the action

and then it is clubs like retro where they pay the girls to be there that create an illusion that this is the case with most clubs, when actually they are the exception rather than the norm

i dont think anyone is under the impression that what happens at retro would be the norm at a swingers club

ps i just dont think im the woman hating, potential rapist im being portrayed as

Maybe i missed something here( i am tired) but i havnt seen anyone say or even hint that you are a potential rapist. to be honest to come out with a statement like that beggars belief

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"_abio

well i have paid my money where is my shag and the action

and then it is clubs like retro where they pay the girls to be there that create an illusion that this is the case with most clubs, when actually they are the exception rather than the norm

i dont think anyone is under the impression that what happens at retro would be the norm at a swingers club

ps i just dont think im the woman hating, potential rapist im being portrayed as

If you're thinking "£40 at one club and guaranteed sex vs £30 at another club and sex is maybe/maybe not, I'll be better off at the first club" then effectively your decision is based purely on paying for sex.

And then saying any guy that thinks otherwise is a liar.. errr.. you're still not getting it??? (and by it I don't mean sex)

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

For God's sake .... will someone just shag him ......

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

So do Retros and the Private Club include sex with their entry fee? If thats the case then I guess the choice is clear. Go to the club where you can get a shag.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"_abio

well i have paid my money where is my shag and the action

and then it is clubs like retro where they pay the girls to be there that create an illusion that this is the case with most clubs, when actually they are the exception rather than the norm

i dont think anyone is under the impression that what happens at retro would be the norm at a swingers club

ps i just dont think im the woman hating, potential rapist im being portrayed as

Who mentioned the r word....you portrayed yourself as someone who doesnt have a clue about swinging...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"For God's sake .... will someone just shag him ......"

u u u u said first

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

have a wank its cheaper and less hassle for ya OP...theres ma advice

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"have a wank its cheaper and less hassle for ya OP...theres ma advice"

But then, no one to watch??

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

Bless... Definitely wrong choice of word.

lesson learnt x

good luck for the future.

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By *luffybear225Couple over a year ago

chesterfield

If your in chams and someone chats or even has sex with you its because they want to. If your in a club that the girls are paid they are spending time with you for your money. Doesn't feel so horny and as much fun then does it? .

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"If your in chams and someone chats or even has sex with you its because they want to. If your in a club that the girls are paid they are spending time with you for your money. Doesn't feel so horny and as much fun then does it? . "

i dont get the impression the OP cares so long as he gets a fuck

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple over a year ago

Lisburn

I just hope that anyone thinking about going to club for 1st time and is nervous, thinking that it is expected that you have to shag anyone, reads the whole thread and realises that this is NOT the case.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I actually feel sorry for the OP.. He is being honest about what he wants out of a club..and I think most.. although not all men think that swinging clubs are somewhere that they have a good chance of getting something.

now there are exceptions..

However, even the clubs such as retro I have known the girls to say no...They dont tend to normally say no.. but us women know that there are ways of moving out of a mans reach which seems to be part of normal play.

Last time i was there I watched the girl keep avoiding this one guy.. eventually he tried it with the other girl who was less bothered till she went to play... Then she too changed angle...

Talking to the girls later the guys hygiene was awful.. he left soon after... but as I was the only other female in the retro club.. he didnt get anything...

In chams the atmosphere is very much I have found more social compared to very sexually orientated at retro club.. I love chams... and would happily go and just chat to friends.. and enjoy the atmosphere..

The thing is to be honest there is no reason why every guy going couldnt get what he is going for if he just remembered to be nice... not stand there wanking etc.. or be a sheep and follow the women /couples around..

Now I am I guess one of the few women who dont find what the OP said offensive.. just him being honest.. he wants sex... and wants to know how chams warrents the price tag it does..

Simple answer is because its one of the busiest clubs.... retro club may get one or two paid girls in.. but there could be lots of girls at chams.

to the OP.. I see where you are coming from.. but sadly you have offended half of the community on here..

Maybe a different approach to going to chams may stand you in better stead.. as We have gone as a couple and found no one really that we fancied playing with.. yet it is always a good night out even if we dont play.. but guess we have each other to play with...

Cali x

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By *luffybear225Couple over a year ago

chesterfield

[Removed by poster at 10/10/11 23:08:46]

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

coantrim

"Maybe i missed something here( i am tired) but i havnt seen anyone say or even hint that you are a potential rapist. to be honest to come out with a statement like that beggars belief

"Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements."

i suppose i should get clarrification of what testarossa means by that statement - I just think the phrase "less desirable elements" has very sinister overtones.

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

has anyone ever accused the posters on this form of being somewhat judgemental ?

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By *ickingFantasticMan over a year ago

Fareham

£30 is fine by me, I have paid both more and less for attending swingers clubs, none with guarantees. I take the _iew that a night out most places these days costs money. A night in the pub with mates I could easily spend more and not get to enjoy the company of what I consider like minded people - i.e. swingers. I enjoy the chat, meeting new people and yes sometimes even the bonus of playing. As others have said if I want guaranteed sex, I would try a prostitute. If I want a decent night out, I think £30 for what I consider in general a friendly atmosphere with sexual overtones usually well worthwhile. I have rarely had a poor night at a club, and even then I haven't considered the money ill spent, but then I do believe it comes down to the attitude you visit clubs with.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"has anyone ever accused the posters on this form of being somewhat judgemental ?"

Not for at least an hour

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"coantrim

Maybe i missed something here( i am tired) but i havnt seen anyone say or even hint that you are a potential rapist. to be honest to come out with a statement like that beggars belief

Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements.

i suppose i should get clarrification of what testarossa means by that statement - I just think the phrase "less desirable elements" has very sinister overtones. "

less desireable elements to me means....one of the reasons so many clubs have so few men, RE how u ,OP, see the _iew of getting ur monies worth.Many would _iew it undesireable as they would be worried that there would be constant pushing for sex

sorry OP, but i just see clubs as what u make them, see it socially and possibly with boners...oops bonuses

as for talking about the other club..I dunno if thats even the attention i think FAB wants to promote really

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By *edditchcpl69Couple over a year ago

REDDITCH

"has anyone ever accused the posters on this form of being somewhat judgemental ?"

well i was going to add my response to this and having read every comment on herewas kind of seeing where the op was coming from, just worded wrong.

but this last comment made me decide not to give my original comment as i can see now its not worth it, you just seem to want to argue with everybody

which on a forum like this one is the wrong thing to do

hope you enjoyed your time here as i really dont think you will ever get what your looking for from anybody who regulary uses the forums

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"coantrim

Maybe i missed something here( i am tired) but i havnt seen anyone say or even hint that you are a potential rapist. to be honest to come out with a statement like that beggars belief

Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements.

i suppose i should get clarrification of what testarossa means by that statement - I just think the phrase "less desirable elements" has very sinister overtones. "

I think I clarified that in my later post, but just in case I didn't- by'less desireable elements'- this is exactly what I mean.

Its the objectification of women that you refer to obliquely, by saying a shag.

Any clearer?

Thought not

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just hope that anyone thinking about going to club for 1st time and is nervous, thinking that it is expected that you have to shag anyone, reads the whole thread and realises that this is NOT the case."

I hope so too. Although I have encountered a few like our OP at clubs, they majority of gentlemen there have been just that..... Gentlemen. His attitude is not the predominant one amongst swingers or clubbers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site"

I think what we all seem to be trying to say is that swinging is not financially motivated?

I may of course be wrong in trying to speak for the others have posted on this thread, but am sure they will soon speak up, if that is the case

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site"

thing is in any club your not paying for sex your paying for use of the facilities

Its just that some club include women in their facilities lol

But as its already been pointed out, even clubs that include girls your not guaranteed sex they are allowed to say no if they want to

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site"

THE KEY word is SWINGING...

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By *ezebelWoman over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

"I may of course be wrong in trying to speak for the others have posted on this thread, but am sure they will soon speak up, if that is the case

I cant help sorry Im off to B&Q to stock up on shovels...they seem to have been in demand tonight

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site"

Whether men should pay for sex I see as trying to speak for the whole planet - in context of Fabswingers (or swinging in general) people going to clubs and paying for sex are two very different and (in 99% of cases I reckon) unrelated elements.

So to suggest men should be able to pay for sex, or expect [some guarantee of] sex just cause they've paid some amount on the door of some club is effectively seeing the women there as nothing more than... cattle

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site"

Bingo this is a swingers site and not a SEX site.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site

Bingo this is a swingers site and not a SEX site."

True but its open to everyone

I dont class myself as a swingers but i still use the site to meet guys for sex

To be honest the sites for whatever you want to make of it

So long as you abide by the rules theres nothing to say you cant come on here just looking for sex

Which after all is what most of us are after anyway, even if you meet someone several times and class them as friend your still meeting them for sex

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site

Bingo this is a swingers site and not a SEX site."

Apparently you still get time-wasters on a sex site - in a club where you've paid to have sex the women don't get to say no so the guarantee is 100% - I think that's what the OP means.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" in a club where you've paid to have sex the women don't get to say no"
Which wouldn't be legal either, right?

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By *obbytupperMan over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

I have seldom read a post with a more arrogant poster. I suppose his next post will be lack of meets...........................deservedly.

I don't use clubs very often but when I do I respect other people and their choice as to whether they play or not.

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By *luffybear225Couple over a year ago

chesterfield

No its up to you what you do! . What I'm saying is when i pay to go to a club we choose who we have sex with, and we are there for us not for someone else's use that thinks they have paid to come in for sex. I assume most people feel the same. As i said its a swingers site and you don't seen to see the difference. The girls at some places are paid to sleep with you and they can still turn you down, what fun is that. Would personally rather have a cup of tea and a chat, and there's always next time. Desperate people always stand out to us and we avoid them.

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

"coantrim

Maybe i missed something here( i am tired) but i havnt seen anyone say or even hint that you are a potential rapist. to be honest to come out with a statement like that beggars belief

Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements.

i suppose i should get clarrification of what testarossa means by that statement - I just think the phrase "less desirable elements" has very sinister overtones.

I think I clarified that in my later post, but just in case I didn't- by'less desireable elements'- this is exactly what I mean.

Its the objectification of women that you refer to obliquely, by saying a shag.

Any clearer?

Thought not

So is shag now a forbidden word? when did that happen? Are the men who go to the retro club misogynists ?

does paying for sex mean that you automatically regard women as objects?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site"

I have nothing against men/women paying for sex either in a club or privately, but i do think this mixing up of paying for sex and swinging clubs is very unhealthy!!!

You need to be clear what swinging is.....people having sex with partners they have freely chosen.

swinging = free choice

prostitution = guaranteed sex with someone who is being paid to pleasure you.

And ps whether you like what Ahab and Fabio has said or not, they are both right.....they're attitudes to swinging and sex would make them far more successful than you at getting any 'action' in clubs!!

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

welsh maria

my whole point is that you cant expect sex at a swingers club - that is probably not going to be on offer to most guys where the ratio is many more men than women

i was at a swingers club once where there must have been ten men for every women

the whole point is that in such cases where it is clear that most men are only going to be able to use the jacuzzi - wouldnt it be fairer to charge the rates you would expect to pay at a health club

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I finally made it to the bottom of the thread. PHEW.

In my opinion after reading the OP's very short profile; It seems that he is indeed only after a quick shag. So maybe the best road for him to take is to the cheapest prostitute. After all I would not like to see him spend too much and be disappointed.

Swinging is all about fun. Never expect anything. The unexpected is always more fun !

Daz

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"coantrim

Maybe i missed something here( i am tired) but i havnt seen anyone say or even hint that you are a potential rapist. to be honest to come out with a statement like that beggars belief

Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements.

i suppose i should get clarrification of what testarossa means by that statement - I just think the phrase "less desirable elements" has very sinister overtones.

I think I clarified that in my later post, but just in case I didn't- by'less desireable elements'- this is exactly what I mean.

Its the objectification of women that you refer to obliquely, by saying a shag.

Any clearer?

Thought not

So is shag now a forbidden word? when did that happen? Are the men who go to the retro club misogynists ?

does paying for sex mean that you automatically regard women as objects?"

I think you are being arguementative now just for the sake of it and quite frankly, I'm getting bored!

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By *obbytupperMan over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

"welsh maria

my whole point is that you cant expect sex at a swingers club - that is probably not going to be on offer to most guys where the ratio is many more men than women

i was at a swingers club once where there must have been ten men for every women

the whole point is that in such cases where it is clear that most men are only going to be able to use the jacuzzi - wouldnt it be fairer to charge the rates you would expect to pay at a health club

Yaaaaawn

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"welsh maria

my whole point is that you cant expect sex at a swingers club - that is probably not going to be on offer to most guys where the ratio is many more men than women

i was at a swingers club once where there must have been ten men for every women

the whole point is that in such cases where it is clear that most men are only going to be able to use the jacuzzi - wouldnt it be fairer to charge the rates you would expect to pay at a health club

Yaaaaawn"

Bit past your bed time old timer?

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By *edditchcpl69Couple over a year ago

REDDITCH

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

naughty

"thing is in any club your not paying for sex your paying for use of the facilities

Its just that some club include women in their facilities lol

But as its already been pointed out, even clubs that include girls your not guaranteed sex they are allowed to say no if they want to"

i think it is disingenuous to suggest that chameleons could charge a single guy £30 if it was not implicit that sex was on offer as at least a possibility

would guys really spend £30 a night £210 a week for a jacuzzi

i dont see anything wrong with going to a swingers club to want to have sex. Of course there is nothing wrong with going to just chat either

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thing is thats not swinging is it? and this is a swingers site and Chameleons is a swingers club not a brothel

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"naughty

thing is in any club your not paying for sex your paying for use of the facilities

Its just that some club include women in their facilities lol

But as its already been pointed out, even clubs that include girls your not guaranteed sex they are allowed to say no if they want to

i think it is disingenuous to suggest that chameleons could charge a single guy £30 if it was not implicit that sex was on offer as at least a possibility

would guys really spend £30 a night £210 a week for a jacuzzi

i dont see anything wrong with going to a swingers club to want to have sex. Of course there is nothing wrong with going to just chat either"

To be honest I think you have made your point. At the end of the day you just want guaranteed sex. Obviously swinging is not for you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

LMAO sorry but everyone getting their hair off is funny as fuck..

Just think on.. some blokes are married and haven't had a shag in years so nothing is guaranteed.

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

fluffy

"No its up to you what you do! . What I'm saying is when i pay to go to a club we choose who we have sex with, and we are there for us not for someone else's use that thinks they have paid to come in for sex. I assume most people feel the same. As i said its a swingers site and you don't seen to see the difference. "

i do see the difference - that is the whole point

if chams is basically a club with a jacuzzi (as far as the single guy is concerned) how can they justify £30

if its just about the social aspect how come nightclubs dont charge single guys £30 at a weekend?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well i think its good value

And ive been going as a single and a couple since it first opened

Never had any problem getting laid if thats what i wanted

But i mostly go ta socialise anyway

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"fluffy

i do see the difference - that is the whole point

if chams is basically a club with a jacuzzi (as far as the single guy is concerned) how can they justify £30

if its just about the social aspect how come nightclubs dont charge single guys £30 at a weekend?

Go to a nightclub then. You never know you might pull!

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

_habs

"fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site

Bingo this is a swingers site and not a SEX site.

Apparently you still get time-wasters on a sex site - in a club where you've paid to have sex the women don't get to say no so the guarantee is 100% - I think that's what the OP means."

no i know your an idiot

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I see only one idiot

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

it may well be the case that £30 is good value for a club with a jacuzi - but if so, then retro is better value as a club with a jacuzi and girls that want to have sex with all of the guys who want to have sex with them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"it may well be the case that £30 is good value for a club with a jacuzi - but if so, then retro is better value as a club with a jacuzi and girls that want to have sex with all of the guys who want to have sex with them"

So you have just answered the problem for yourself. Go there, and stop bloody moaning. I still think swinging is not for you though.

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By *etsome OP Man over a year ago

birmingham

"I see only one idiot"

well ive not accused anyone of thinking a woman cant say no to sex because shes working somewhere like the retro

i dont think it would be possible to meet a group of more self righteous individuals anywhere on the net

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

want?-missin the point arent ya...come on....give it up please.

I have never and never will pay expecting anything other than entry to the club.Most ive met in clubs ive ended up meeting again...honstly just cant see how u are blurring essentially 'needing' to pay for sex or getting it from someome for 'free' whos actually interested in 'U'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I see only one idiot

well ive not accused anyone of thinking a woman cant say no to sex because shes working somewhere like the retro

i dont think it would be possible to meet a group of more self righteous individuals anywhere on the net"

*waves*

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

After seeing all this, clubs ain't for me! lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If i thought fa one minute that the woman i was playing with was being paid to be there i would run a mile

And before you re quote your self rightous individuals crap let me tell you i know plenty of working girls and have also worked myself in the past

The bit where you seem to be getting very confused is this is SWINGING and not working tricks

If ya want a gauteed shag then go ta places where ya pay

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After seeing all this, clubs ain't for me! lol

BK mate clubs are great xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Would have though if you are guaranteed a fuck by working girls then it is a brothel rather than a swingers club, even if swingers choose to go there.

Been to one club like this and it was horrible, had a bad atmosphere.

Takes all sorts I spose.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After seeing all this, clubs ain't for me! lol

BK mate clubs are great xx

Clubs are great. Just don't expect a "guaranteed shag".

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After seeing all this, clubs ain't for me! lol

BK mate clubs are great xx

Clubs are great. Just don't expect a "guaranteed shag".

Exactly lol swingings real world xx

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"_habs

fluffy

so let me get this right - are you saying men should not pay for sex?

if so this seems a somewhat censorious stance on a swinging site

Bingo this is a swingers site and not a SEX site.

Apparently you still get time-wasters on a sex site - in a club where you've paid to have sex the women don't get to say no so the guarantee is 100% - I think that's what the OP means.

no i know your an idiot"

Oh dear.. now how do I respond?

1) Report the OP for being directly abusive?

2) Not take the bait?

3) Wonder (if this were an open vote) who would be deemed the idiot?

Its funny, dear OP, how you think you know what "swinging" is about and how clubs should operate, when in fact all you want is a woman that will have sex with you "because" you've paid her.

My recommendation:

1) Get rid of your porn mags.

2) Delete your porn vids

3) Go to pubs and socialise more... you might learn a thing or two.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"coantrim

Maybe i missed something here( i am tired) but i havnt seen anyone say or even hint that you are a potential rapist. to be honest to come out with a statement like that beggars belief

Its not your words that are getting peoples backs up, its your attitude, it smacks of misogyny, and other less desirable elements.

i suppose i should get clarrification of what testarossa means by that statement - I just think the phrase "less desirable elements" has very sinister overtones.

I think I clarified that in my later post, but just in case I didn't- by'less desireable elements'- this is exactly what I mean.

Its the objectification of women that you refer to obliquely, by saying a shag.

Any clearer?

Thought not

So is shag now a forbidden word? when did that happen? Are the men who go to the retro club misogynists ?

does paying for sex mean that you automatically regard women as objects?"

in paying for something/someone ownership is implicit, albeit a limited or contractual time. Therefore, yes paying for sex means that you regard the person (male or female) as an object/service facility to be bought or sold.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"I see only one idiot

well ive not accused anyone of thinking a woman cant say no to sex because shes working somewhere like the retro

i dont think it would be possible to meet a group of more self righteous individuals anywhere on the net"

Still here...still not getting what swinging is

Ok,imagine you joined a chess site and said on the forum,this sucks,i can play checkers ,its easier,you lot are just judgmental and having a go.Who has the problem,the site or you?

If you looked up the many threads here on prostitution you would see that people generally have no problem with it,one of the reasons people enjoy the social side of swinging is mixing in a sex positive atmosphere.

However you refuse to understand and or accept that swinging is about more than your sexual satisfaction...as i said before i do think you are on the wrong site.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i have been to a club on my own and all i will say is this if u go with the idea you will def get some then you probally will not get any if however you talk chat have a laugh and enjoy yourself wheather you get any and ppl see you are relaxed and friendly getting involved in the social side of things then you may get some it is all about how you act and interact with ppl swinging is a lifestyle choice and therefore there are rules on how to act and behave in clubs and in swinging in general good luck to the opening poster i think you have a lot to learn i would suggest you go to a club in the afternoon and just relax and chat to everyone

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By *unessexblMan over a year ago

Colchester

My god I have just read most of this thread and to put it bluntly .... You user name is get some....well with your stupid attitude I would be amazed if you ever "_etsome" and we should now rename you " Hardly likely to get any"

I pay £55 to go to my local spa for a day where people wear clothes and if you had sex you would be chucked out...

So mr " never going to get any" don't a) be a skinflint at £30 and b) be an a***hole

There are lovely people at Chams and I nearly always end up having sex there...or maybe that's just my witty humour and nice personality (plus modesty)

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By *unessexblMan over a year ago

Colchester

[Removed by poster at 11/10/11 00:56:59]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I see only one idiot

well ive not accused anyone of thinking a woman cant say no to sex because shes working somewhere like the retro

i dont think it would be possible to meet a group of more self righteous individuals anywhere on the net

Still here...still not getting what swinging is

Ok,imagine you joined a chess site and said on the forum,this sucks,i can play checkers ,its easier,you lot are just judgmental and having a go.Who has the problem,the site or you?

However you refuse to understand and or accept that swinging is about more than your sexual satisfaction...as i said before i do think you are on the wrong site.

yeah, too right, we are not a bunch of depraved, sex-mad, kinkies .... oh er em, ooooo wait a minute tho

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"My god I have just read most of this thread and to put it bluntly .... You user name is get some....well with your stupid attitude I would be amazed if you ever "_etsome" and we should now rename you " Hardly likely to get any"

I pay £55 to go to my local spa for a day where people wear clothes and if you had sex you would be chucked out...

So mr " never going to get any" don't a) be a skinflint at £30 and b) be an a***hole

There are lovely people at Chams and I nearly always end up having sex there...or maybe that's just my witty humour and nice personality (plus modesty)

lovely

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"i have been to a club on my own and all i will say is this if u go with the idea you will def get some then you probally will not get any if however you talk chat have a laugh and enjoy yourself wheather you get any and ppl see you are relaxed and friendly getting involved in the social side of things then you may get some it is all about how you act and interact with ppl swinging is a lifestyle choice and therefore there are rules on how to act and behave in clubs and in swinging in general good luck to the opening poster i think you have a lot to learn i would suggest you go to a club in the afternoon and just relax and chat to everyone "

Careful with that line of thinking Jay, OP might call you either a liar or an idiot. lol.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The thing is, it is not just the possibility of a physical sexual experience, use of the facilities and a soak in a jacuzzi that is included in the entry fee.

Sometimes, when I go to a swingers club, I have no sex at all. But I always leave there with great memories and some amazing mental images of things I have seen. I see, and talk to, real people having honest and real fun. They are happy, relaxed and very good company.

Some of the best sex ever has been with my companion after leaving the club. Sometimes even before getting home.

For me, it is absolutely worth the entrance fee.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"I see only one idiot

well ive not accused anyone of thinking a woman cant say no to sex because shes working somewhere like the retro

i dont think it would be possible to meet a group of more self righteous individuals anywhere on the net

Still here...still not getting what swinging is

Ok,imagine you joined a chess site and said on the forum,this sucks,i can play checkers ,its easier,you lot are just judgmental and having a go.Who has the problem,the site or you?

However you refuse to understand and or accept that swinging is about more than your sexual satisfaction...as i said before i do think you are on the wrong site.

yeah, too right, we are not a bunch of depraved, sex-mad, kinkies .... oh er em, ooooo wait a minute tho

Just cos i am doesnt mean i expect everyone else to be

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The thing is, it is not just the possibility of a physical sexual experience, use of the facilities and a soak in a jacuzzi that is included in the entry fee.

Some of the best sex ever has been with my companion after leaving the club. Sometimes even before getting home.

For me, it is absolutely worth the entrance fee. "

Very well said, it's the same for us.

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By *urreyfun2008Man over a year ago

East Grinstead

Have been to some clubs and had a great time, with perhaps the odd dance and no more.

Other times dance the night away and leave as bored.

To have a good time, does not require a shag, the mixture of conversation, relaxing and a bit of voyuerism makes for a good night.

At least now I know two clubs to avoid, as people I play with I want them to be enjoying themselves, not just going through motions.

Have heard similar comments/moans when at clubs from other single guys. So I think it is a fairly common attitude, oddly seems to be the younger guys.

Us older fugly guys are just happy to be allowed into the places I guess.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Annnnddd breathe.

Think this has run it's course now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"how does £30 entry for single guys compare with other swingers clubs.

Wasn't expecting it to be quite that much sicne there are no guarantees with chameleons compared with retro or private club which is only a tenner more"

I felt the need to read the Ops original post again after reading the thread. I think many of the responses he has recieved have been over the top and some of the insults totally unnecessary.

I do feel that the way the Op has articulated his concerns could be seen as a little naive but is his question so bad?

He has STATED that there are no guarantees at Chams, he has nowhere in the thread suggested that there should be or that he wants to change that dynamic (or have I missed that?).

He has stated his awareness that other clubs charge a premium for a percieved 'guarantee' of sex, nowhere has he suggested he expects or wants Chams to turn into one of these clubs.

Accepting this he simply appears to be asking how a premium entry for single guys can be justified just for use of the facilities.

The fact is this question has been asked on many occassions in the past in other ways and debated without the need to resort to insults.

I believe some of the responses are unfair and I hope the Op does not himself continue to fight fire with fire and return insults because of a siege mentality.

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