FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swingers Chat > Documentary/Film.
Documentary/Film.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'm a young film maker and director, with his own equipment, camera edit suite etc.
I'm really enjoying this mentality you guys have around swinging.
A lot of the outside world, who I've discussed with, don't seem to understand it, and think it's a disgusting, vulgar, immoral and dirty practice. When in-fact, it's on the contrary.
I'm working on some pre-production notes, and would love your guys feedback with possibly making a documentary on swinging, and how it is in-fact this kind of wonderful atmosphere where there is no pressure, no vulgarity. Just fun.
let me know, think it could be interesting. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The TG scene is like that. We're seen as freaks and weirdos when in fact we're sweet and charming and funny and smart (and also very modest) but some of the guys are the fucked-up ones.
I blame Dick Emery. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The TG scene is like that. We're seen as freaks and weirdos when in fact we're sweet and charming and funny and smart (and also very modest) but some of the guys are the fucked-up ones.
I blame Dick Emery."
TG? Enlighten me? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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if you do make a film i think you should concentrate on how many happy long term relationships there are in this walk of life, it always annoys me when the media portrays us as somehow lacking something or looking to fix something, i think its the opposite, i feel more evolved as a human being, that we've been able to eliminate jealousy from our emotional landscape is really amazing and freeing. xx |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"if you do make a film i think you should concentrate on how many happy long term relationships there are in this walk of life, it always annoys me when the media portrays us as somehow lacking something or looking to fix something, i think its the opposite, i feel more evolved as a human being, that we've been able to eliminate jealousy from our emotional landscape is really amazing and freeing. xx"
Yeah, that's something I didn't think of - As a lot of the perception seems also to be based around 'home wrecking' when in fact, it's partners who love each other so much they want to both have as much fun as possibly, and in doing that it almost re-affirms their love and companionship too?
This is a great edge I didn't think of |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"And what about the love shown by a partner who (usually because of medical problems) can no longer fully perform ,who allows their spouse to play with others.
"
of course, I want to show all aspects of this atmosphere.
It's a beautiful mindset and mentality and obviously I want to understand it more, but I think itd be a beautiful thing to capture! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No offence meant to the OP but in my *limited* experience of working with documentary makers, I found they are definitely looking for a shock angle, for want of a better phrase.
It's probably the fault of the TV companies but a documentary that featured a series of talking heads explaining that they enjoy swinging as part of their normal, happy life would struggle to get a slot on the schedules. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No offence meant to the OP but in my *limited* experience of working with documentary makers, I found they are definitely looking for a shock angle, for want of a better phrase.
It's probably the fault of the TV companies but a documentary that featured a series of talking heads explaining that they enjoy swinging as part of their normal, happy life would struggle to get a slot on the schedules."
No, I am not looking for a shock angle.
Nor is my intent or direction construed by anyone.
I have my own ideas and thoughts. I do not make or produce films or documentaries for any sake other than myself.
I would love to produce something like this, and I'm not going for a shock angle.
If anything, actually, I want to shock the audience into realising "wow, this isn't what we thought it was, swinging isn't this disgusting, vulgar, immoral practice" |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Hi Blake, yes please don't think I was having a go at you. It would be nice to have a balanced, unhysterical look at the scene."
No no It's fine.
I'm a little touchy when people (when I feel like, or assume they are) comparing me to others creatively. That's just one of my little ticks, we all have them.
However, I understand what you mean totally  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i'm assuming you run your own production company, so surely everything has to have a target audience, an intention to get each film seen and an eye on profits to keep the company going?"
no, I'm a graduate who was fortunate enough to get a rather great camera and an amazing edit suite.
since then have worked on various professional productions and looking to make my own work.
I am not fussed about profits, or target audience. I am fussed about the happiness and joy in what I produce. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"you still have bills to pay?
And as with all works of art they are there to be admired surely?"
Yes, I have bills to pay, not many. But I am covered already for them.
Don't assume prior knowledge over something, or at least hint I am doing something wrong because you do not understand it. My life has some bills and I am doing what I want - My friend frequently speaks to me as you just did (I'm aware you're not being rude) However, it seems like you;re trying to defeat what I'm saying with knowledge of 'real life'
I would create this, my documentary to look and be amazing. TO get across a sense of beauty in a subject that is shrouded by a horrible misconception - Swinging isn't this weird mangled mind set - It's this incredible, beautiful mindset and community where everyone is accepted, no grudges are held because you like this or that. It's living life how you want, and not being ashamed of who and what you are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The TG scene is like that. We're seen as freaks and weirdos when in fact we're sweet and charming and funny and smart (and also very modest) but some of the guys are the fucked-up ones.
I blame Dick Emery."
Although they are based very much on characatures of a TV/TG person and OK they are films as opposed to documentaries, but hasn't the TV/TG thing been done by Priscilla and To Wong Fu in the mainstream market and by Hedwig and Transamerica in the not-so mainstream ?
btw Transamerica made me cry  |
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By *eaboMan
over a year ago
marden |
"you still have bills to pay?
And as with all works of art they are there to be admired surely?
Yes, I have bills to pay, not many. But I am covered already for them.
Don't assume prior knowledge over something, or at least hint I am doing something wrong because you do not understand it. My life has some bills and I am doing what I want - My friend frequently speaks to me as you just did (I'm aware you're not being rude) However, it seems like you;re trying to defeat what I'm saying with knowledge of 'real life'
I would create this, my documentary to look and be amazing. TO get across a sense of beauty in a subject that is shrouded by a horrible misconception - Swinging isn't this weird mangled mind set - It's this incredible, beautiful mindset and community where everyone is accepted, no grudges are held because you like this or that. It's living life how you want, and not being ashamed of who and what you are. "
I am assuming nothing, i am asking questions in an open form.
Did you intend your reply to come across as terse as it did?
I am not trying to defeat anything but am glad you see the basis of my questions comes from real life. The crux of my questions is why do all the hard work and produce the documentary on what i agree is an awesome way of life, filled with amazing and colourful characters if no one is to ever see it? As i said a work of art is there to be admired. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"you still have bills to pay?
And as with all works of art they are there to be admired surely?
Yes, I have bills to pay, not many. But I am covered already for them.
Don't assume prior knowledge over something, or at least hint I am doing something wrong because you do not understand it. My life has some bills and I am doing what I want - My friend frequently speaks to me as you just did (I'm aware you're not being rude) However, it seems like you;re trying to defeat what I'm saying with knowledge of 'real life'
I would create this, my documentary to look and be amazing. TO get across a sense of beauty in a subject that is shrouded by a horrible misconception - Swinging isn't this weird mangled mind set - It's this incredible, beautiful mindset and community where everyone is accepted, no grudges are held because you like this or that. It's living life how you want, and not being ashamed of who and what you are.
I am assuming nothing, i am asking questions in an open form.
Did you intend your reply to come across as terse as it did?
I am not trying to defeat anything but am glad you see the basis of my questions comes from real life. The crux of my questions is why do all the hard work and produce the documentary on what i agree is an awesome way of life, filled with amazing and colourful characters if no one is to ever see it? As i said a work of art is there to be admired."
People will see it if I chose to put it out.
The crux of a documentary isn't to shock, it's back down the road along with the old BBC premise "To educate and to inform"
I would produce the documentary for myself, and other people like us, here.
I would send it to who ever requested and market it as appropriate if I saw fit, or people on here thought it should be sent out for possibly broadcast. Marketing would have to be done along with plenty of research. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The nature of most talking head or fly on the wall documentaries is greatly determined by the participants who are willing to go in front of the camera so it becomes a self-selecting sample and of course often at the more extreme or most extrovert end of the spectrum.
A documentary maker wanted to film my wife's last few weeks of life. She was all for it, partly because she wanted to de-mystify the dying process but to be honest partly because she loved being on camera! I and her daughters were horrified and completely against it, having a camera trained on our faces as she slipped from this world.  |
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"I'm a young film maker and director, with his own equipment, camera edit suite etc.
I'm really enjoying this mentality you guys have around swinging.
A lot of the outside world, who I've discussed with, don't seem to understand it, and think it's a disgusting, vulgar, immoral and dirty practice. When in-fact, it's on the contrary.
I'm working on some pre-production notes, and would love your guys feedback with possibly making a documentary on swinging, and how it is in-fact this kind of wonderful atmosphere where there is no pressure, no vulgarity. Just fun.
let me know, think it could be interesting. "
i once described swinging at its best as an orgy with laughs, i would love a documentary portraying this side to be made.
Camp at the bank holday was a case in point,normal ppl having a whale of a time.
i also think their is a great sitcom set in a club to be written.
.However i would not appear in it,and i think very few mainstream swingers would.
Sadly its a vicious circle,just look at what happened to 2 lovely ppl when the press outed their socials recently.  |
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By *eaboMan
over a year ago
marden |
i wish you luck. It will be extremely refreshing to see a more realistic approach to swinging publicised, but i think you will agree life experiences show this seldom happens.
One last question if i may, who retains copyright of the finished documentary, and therefore control of the profits should you choose to market the documentary, yourself or a conglomeration of the members of fab who facillitated it's production? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm a young film maker and director, with his own equipment, camera edit suite etc.
I'm really enjoying this mentality you guys have around swinging.
A lot of the outside world, who I've discussed with, don't seem to understand it, and think it's a disgusting, vulgar, immoral and dirty practice. When in-fact, it's on the contrary.
I'm working on some pre-production notes, and would love your guys feedback with possibly making a documentary on swinging, and how it is in-fact this kind of wonderful atmosphere where there is no pressure, no vulgarity. Just fun.
let me know, think it could be interesting.
i once described swinging at its best as an orgy with laughs, i would love a documentary portraying this side to be made.
Camp at the bank holday was a case in point,normal ppl having a whale of a time.
i also think their is a great sitcom set in a club to be written.
.However i would not appear in it,and i think very few mainstream swingers would.
Sadly its a vicious circle,just look at what happened to 2 lovely ppl when the press outed their socials recently. "
Indeed, I would love for people to say fuck it, this is who we are, lets show the world.
Alas, the public cannot take another view but their own and what the media tells them.
I will do a lot of research into this, it could have the potential to be beautiful! |
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"I'm a young film maker and director, with his own equipment, camera edit suite etc.
I'm really enjoying this mentality you guys have around swinging.
A lot of the outside world, who I've discussed with, don't seem to understand it, and think it's a disgusting, vulgar, immoral and dirty practice. When in-fact, it's on the contrary.
I'm working on some pre-production notes, and would love your guys feedback with possibly making a documentary on swinging, and how it is in-fact this kind of wonderful atmosphere where there is no pressure, no vulgarity. Just fun.
let me know, think it could be interesting.
i once described swinging at its best as an orgy with laughs, i would love a documentary portraying this side to be made.
Camp at the bank holday was a case in point,normal ppl having a whale of a time.
i also think their is a great sitcom set in a club to be written.
.However i would not appear in it,and i think very few mainstream swingers would.
Sadly its a vicious circle,just look at what happened to 2 lovely ppl when the press outed their socials recently.
Indeed, I would love for people to say fuck it, this is who we are, lets show the world.
Alas, the public cannot take another view but their own and what the media tells them.
I will do a lot of research into this, it could have the potential to be beautiful! "
Which is wonderful in theory and why socials are so good.But us saying fuck it would tell my parents,my village,probably my young children ,kevs employers what we do.That's without even mentioning the fact i an a sub.
i really don't know how we get round this.Dr Magnatini(belle de jour) wrote very eloquently about it. How do we change the perceptions of the mainstream,when the mainstream views those of us who do not fit conventional sexual behavior as legitimate targets?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i wish you luck. It will be extremely refreshing to see a more realistic approach to swinging publicised, but i think you will agree life experiences show this seldom happens.
One last question if i may, who retains copyright of the finished documentary, and therefore control of the profits should you choose to market the documentary, yourself or a conglomeration of the members of fab who facillitated it's production?"
Profit wise, I would be happy to split it, and all of it, I wouldn't want all of any profit made because I wouldn't be the only one involved, any one who was involved should and does deserve a stake!
As to copy wright, I would again contact everyone who was apart of it and arrange something, if they are happy for myself to withhold it, I would.
I would never air something like this on TV or any internet website without express permission from all participants. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Perhaps the very fact that swinging is seen as illicit and frowned-upon is half the attraction? If we made it acceptable, might we also make it less thrilling? I don't know the answer |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Makes me wonder just how many people would agree to take part, we know that we wouldnt dream of doing so. We not saying no one wouldn't agree, but we sure dont know any of our friends who would. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Indeed, you are right.
I just invision it being a nice piece or moving image, perhaps art?
it wouldn't be a documentary with a voice over and people fucking for 30minutes/hour.
It would show all aspects of the life, normality etc. THE swingers normality. Their lives.
I wouldn't imagine, if this did ever take off and was produced, that it would make it any where NEAR as far as TV. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would give your idea a whirl, ask for couples, ladies and guys to appear in your film................apart from some rather over enthusiastic single guys and maybe the odd girl who wants to be a "star"..........you will be still looking at xmas........not rude honestly, just trying to make you understand. The reasons for appearing are outweighed a hundred times by the reasons not to............real life has a nasty knack off biting your arse when you admit to things outside the mainstream...............Example look at the famous footballer who went dogging, did he really deserve the shit that was thrown at him just cos he wanted to try something exciting...... |
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By *eaboMan
over a year ago
marden |
"i wish you luck. It will be extremely refreshing to see a more realistic approach to swinging publicised, but i think you will agree life experiences show this seldom happens.
One last question if i may, who retains copyright of the finished documentary, and therefore control of the profits should you choose to market the documentary, yourself or a conglomeration of the members of fab who facillitated it's production?
Profit wise, I would be happy to split it, and all of it, I wouldn't want all of any profit made because I wouldn't be the only one involved, any one who was involved should and does deserve a stake!
As to copy wright, I would again contact everyone who was apart of it and arrange something, if they are happy for myself to withhold it, I would.
I would never air something like this on TV or any internet website without express permission from all participants. "
Art for arts sake. We go through life meeting all sorts of people and become accustomed to strangers taking us for fools, using a few esoteric and often mis-spelt words, or sharp rebukes to pertinent questions to cajole us into giving of ourselves or our purses. It is so rare, but so refreshing to come across someone with little interest in the finished piece, but burdened with an overwhelming desire to create beauty.
The finished documentary is unlikely to get aired on television, won't get featured on any website, so is being made purely to ease the overpowering passion of a true artist. How i miss the impetuousness and naivity of youth. I wish you and your film crew/production team all the best in this and your future exploits and hope you obtain all the help and support from the members of this community you so richly deserve. |
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"Indeed, you are right.
I just invision it being a nice piece or moving image, perhaps art?
it wouldn't be a documentary with a voice over and people fucking for 30minutes/hour.
It would show all aspects of the life, normality etc. THE swingers normality. Their lives.
I wouldn't imagine, if this did ever take off and was produced, that it would make it any where NEAR as far as TV. "
Have you considered a cartoon with voice overs,a swinging version of the Electricity board ads. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"you still have bills to pay?
And as with all works of art they are there to be admired surely?
Yes, I have bills to pay, not many. But I am covered already for them.
Don't assume prior knowledge over something, or at least hint I am doing something wrong because you do not understand it. My life has some bills and I am doing what I want - My friend frequently speaks to me as you just did (I'm aware you're not being rude) However, it seems like you;re trying to defeat what I'm saying with knowledge of 'real life'
I would create this, my documentary to look and be amazing. TO get across a sense of beauty in a subject that is shrouded by a horrible misconception - Swinging isn't this weird mangled mind set - It's this incredible, beautiful mindset and community where everyone is accepted, no grudges are held because you like this or that. It's living life how you want, and not being ashamed of who and what you are.
I am assuming nothing, i am asking questions in an open form.
Did you intend your reply to come across as terse as it did?
I am not trying to defeat anything but am glad you see the basis of my questions comes from real life. The crux of my questions is why do all the hard work and produce the documentary on what i agree is an awesome way of life, filled with amazing and colourful characters if no one is to ever see it? As i said a work of art is there to be admired."
If you are not Louis Theroux, then I doubt many would be interested. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Indeed, you are right.
I just invision it being a nice piece or moving image, perhaps art?
it wouldn't be a documentary with a voice over and people fucking for 30minutes/hour.
It would show all aspects of the life, normality etc. THE swingers normality. Their lives.
I wouldn't imagine, if this did ever take off and was produced, that it would make it any where NEAR as far as TV.
Have you considered a cartoon with voice overs,a swinging version of the Electricity board ads."
oooo now thats not a bad idea i would consider taking part if i could be certain of annonimity as i'm certain many others would be and this could be one way to do it better than blurred faces surely |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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mmmmmmmmmmmmm little smell of bullshit here not long a post grad?
who u going to try to sell it to?
what u shooting on?
what u editing on?
whats the treatment?
and do u think any clubs will let you in willy nilly?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"mmmmmmmmmmmmm little smell of bullshit here not long a post grad?
who u going to try to sell it to?
what u shooting on?
what u editing on?
whats the treatment?
and do u think any clubs will let you in willy nilly?
"
no, No bullshit, and don't insult me for no reason.
I'm not trying to sell it to any body, read some of the talk earlier 'art for arts sake' if you understand that.
shooting on a canon 600D and possibly a 5d mkii
Editing on Final cut.
There isn't a treatment, I came up with the idea today and posted it on here to be discussed.
I don't know about clubs or whatever, I was just asking.
Don't start trying to insult me or pretend you smell 'bullshit' Read properly, and you'll understand i was just enquiring. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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art for arts sake ?
great idea all been done before though
i hope it worksout for u
and look u post on here u get comments
good or bad take in the spirit of free speach ive heard urs and made a comment im not insulting u i made a comment on my judgement
and as for feed back come back and tell me when its done and if its good i will say
just call me barry norman |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"art for arts sake ?
great idea all been done before though
i hope it worksout for u
and look u post on here u get comments
good or bad take in the spirit of free speach ive heard urs and made a comment im not insulting u i made a comment on my judgement
and as for feed back come back and tell me when its done and if its good i will say
just call me barry norman"
I won a competition and met Barry ironically.
Indeed it has been done before, but not by me. |
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The Beate Uhse channel on Sat TV often have documentary style programmes based on the German Swinging / FKK scene. They are pretty much informative and more like what a documentary should be rather than the efforts that you get on Ch4 / Ch5 / UK Cable TV. (Sin Cities etc)
Why is it that UK film makers in the past can't handle the suject without using some kind of idiot as a presenter, or without overdubbing the film with stupid voices / juvenile audio tracks?
I'd suggest, esp if you are a German speaker, to watch some of those German docu's to get a feel of how it could work well.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"............
A lot of the outside world, who I've discussed with, don't seem to understand it, and think it's a disgusting, vulgar, immoral and dirty practice. When in-fact, it's on the contrary.
............... "
No, that's exactly what it is - that's why it's soooooooooooooo attractive to many parts of the media. Let's rejoice in that.
But! That's why we have to be so careful about the increasingly fine line between the value of publicity and the virtue of discretion. |
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"Indeed, you are right.
I just invision it being a nice piece or moving image, perhaps art?
it wouldn't be a documentary with a voice over and people fucking for 30minutes/hour.
It would show all aspects of the life, normality etc. THE swingers normality. Their lives.
I wouldn't imagine, if this did ever take off and was produced, that it would make it any where NEAR as far as TV.
Have you considered a cartoon with voice overs,a swinging version of the Electricity board ads.
oooo now thats not a bad idea i would consider taking part if i could be certain of annonimity as i'm certain many others would be and this could be one way to do it better than blurred faces surely"
That was my thought,i am a great fan of grown up animation,and this subject would really work. |
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