FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swingers Chat > The Madonna Whore Complex
The Madonna Whore Complex
Jump to: Newest in thread
Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex. "
Yep. I have always had that problem in relationships. I either be the lady ...the nice girl.. or the slut. Both are me but I find I have to choose one or the other depending on the company! Would be great to find a man I can be both with! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts? "
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again 
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'm not so sure any more, lots of guys these days are looking for "a lady in the streets, a whore in the sheets". I guess it just depends on their definition of "whore". |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
This way of thinking is definitely not isolated to men. I think it is as a consequence of how we are raised coupled with our natural conservatism. In my (Chris) personal opinion, jealousy plays quite a big part in a girl getting a reputation as a "whore." This is because at the age of sexual development, everyone wants to be having it (thank hormones for this) however only the lucky few tend to get it regularly at least to start with and of course girls find it considerably easier to get it than guys. That said, I often find girls to be more judgemental of each others sexual conquests than guys are but that isn't overly relevant here. At the end of the day, I definitely used to suffer from this but now I couldn't be happier with having gotten over it! i know so many guys that wouldn't touch tif with a barge pole if they knew what we got up to, as far as I'm concerned that's their loss! I couldn't be prouder of her sexuality. She has also been with many of my friends while we've been together which again I know many guys who give it the "I couldn't be with her because she's been with him." So long as she tells me all about it I'm more than happy!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men "
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
is the Madonna-whore complex still relevant in this day and age, and on sites such as this where usually the more sexual experience you have is often seen as a plus point..? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm not so sure any more, lots of guys these days are looking for "a lady in the streets, a whore in the sheets". I guess it just depends on their definition of "whore". "
Maybe I struggle to meet those guys then. Because in my experience, I meet men who say that but in practice, they struggle with it the idea of me being a sexually aware woman who has had 'too many partners' in their opinion!  . I even took to lying one time about the number of sexual partners I have had (not that I count....more a guess!;)) as the hassle of arguing the point was even worse! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"is the Madonna-whore complex still relevant in this day and age, and on sites such as this where usually the more sexual experience you have is often seen as a plus point..? "
Not on here probably not. I was referring to society in general. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
Yep. I have always had that problem in relationships. I either be the lady ...the nice girl.. or the slut. Both are me but I find I have to choose one or the other depending on the company! Would be great to find a man I can be both with!"
Yep 
Even my vanilla friends have suggested I tone it down a bit to ensnare a partner. Fuck that. They take me as I am or can do one. No surprises later.
Sexually assertive women are still very much looked down upon. Men can cheat, play around, be a stud. A woman, oh no no no. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
Yep. I have always had that problem in relationships. I either be the lady ...the nice girl.. or the slut. Both are me but I find I have to choose one or the other depending on the company! Would be great to find a man I can be both with!
Yep
Even my vanilla friends have suggested I tone it down a bit to ensnare a partner. Fuck that. They take me as I am or can do one. No surprises later.
Sexually assertive women are still very much looked down upon. Men can cheat, play around, be a stud. A woman, oh no no no."
Yes. Most men I meet in vanilla land, would be shocked that I can be such a slut! Lol! The very idea that the woman they are dating, is a dirty slut! Unless of course I have only ever been that way with them!!!! Seriously??? I was a virgin a very long time ago!!!!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is."
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
"
Not sure there is a need to be so harsh? I simply opened up a discussion. If it annoys you then you have the option to go elsewhere. There is certainly no need to be so rude! I am not 'moaning'. Noone is 'moaning'. We are having a mature adult discussion. End of. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
"
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Even on a site such as this, you see loads of women who play the little sweet girly giggly breathless ingenue role; and grown men lapping it up. It's alive and kicking and women themselves are some of the worst perpetrators |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *BCambsCouple
over a year ago
Biggleswade |
Both my partner and I have had "vanilla" relationships, for want of a better word, in the past.
When we met we had both come to the conclusion separately to not compromise on what we wanted from our partners.
I wanted a wonderful woman I could adore, someone I could be proud of, introduce to the family and blah blah. I also wanted a sexual, lustful adventurous 'whore'!
I didn't think I would get both in the same woman. I was wrong. So very wrong.
And she thought the same, that she couldn't be a wife and whore in one relationship.
We taught each other a lot and had a very much "where have you been all my life moment".
I believe you can have both and this site and 'lifestyle' (a phrase I hate) has shown me that there are hundreds of people that feel the same.
I don't consider her a Madonna or a Whore, they don't have to be separate things, she is simply just her; the one I want.
A brilliant, capable, stunning, scientist, mother and lover.
She is a woman and all that encompasses and I adore her for it.
Society lies to itself about virtues and behaviour, let it. I know you can have it all, without compromise and I love all you people that feel the same!
B |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Both my partner and I have had "vanilla" relationships, for want of a better word, in the past.
When we met we had both come to the conclusion separately to not compromise on what we wanted from our partners.
I wanted a wonderful woman I could adore, someone I could be proud of, introduce to the family and blah blah. I also wanted a sexual, lustful adventurous 'whore'!
I didn't think I would get both in the same woman. I was wrong. So very wrong.
And she thought the same, that she couldn't be a wife and whore in one relationship.
We taught each other a lot and had a very much "where have you been all my life moment".
I believe you can have both and this site and 'lifestyle' (a phrase I hate) has shown me that there are hundreds of people that feel the same.
I don't consider her a Madonna or a Whore, they don't have to be separate things, she is simply just her; the one I want.
A brilliant, capable, stunning, scientist, mother and lover.
She is a woman and all that encompasses and I adore her for it.
Society lies to itself about virtues and behaviour, let it. I know you can have it all, without compromise and I love all you people that feel the same!
B"
LOVE THAT!!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex. "
Maybe the wording was harsh but his point was spot on. One inconvenient fact for you is that 'slut shaming' is much more likely to come from women against women, than men to women. There are strong reasons grounded in ecolutionary psychology for this and multiple recent studies have confirmed that more online trolling against women, comes from women.
The second inconvenient fact is that we can objectively measure masculinity and femininity in national cultures. The best research on it is from a dutch guy called Hofstede. There is a lot of evidence that modern cultural trends have attempted to push cultures towards more feminine aspects. What you refer to as a 'nice guy' is what I would call a 'pussy'.
You can amuse yourself for several hours if you go on YouTube and see all the female social justice warriors complaining that most of the men who joined their movement later tried to hit on them (no shit sherlock).
I do love Freud, but this part was nonsense. Your thread isn't nonsense. The complex doesn't exist in the way you think it does or for the reasons you state. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Very interesting topic.
I think it could maybe be a case of appropriate time and place to display your more overt sexual moves ?
I wouldn't embarrass my partner by talking or behaving like a "whore" for want of a better word, whilst shopping in tesco or talking to his family, but I would definitely show it in a club or in private
And I would think less of, privately, a woman who did behave like that.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"is the Madonna-whore complex still relevant in this day and age, and on sites such as this where usually the more sexual experience you have is often seen as a plus point..? "
I would say it's rampant on here going by all the previous threads I've read where single folks of both sexes say that if they had a partner there's no way they'd ever swing...A case of what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex.
Maybe the wording was harsh but his point was spot on. One inconvenient fact for you is that 'slut shaming' is much more likely to come from women against women, than men to women. There are strong reasons grounded in ecolutionary psychology for this and multiple recent studies have confirmed that more online trolling against women, comes from women.
The second inconvenient fact is that we can objectively measure masculinity and femininity in national cultures. The best research on it is from a dutch guy called Hofstede. There is a lot of evidence that modern cultural trends have attempted to push cultures towards more feminine aspects. What you refer to as a 'nice guy' is what I would call a 'pussy'.
You can amuse yourself for several hours if you go on YouTube and see all the female social justice warriors complaining that most of the men who joined their movement later tried to hit on them (no shit sherlock).
I do love Freud, but this part was nonsense. Your thread isn't nonsense. The complex doesn't exist in the way you think it does or for the reasons you state. "
The words were from an article and not my own but I am not a great fan of Freud. However I can only compare and contrast this particular theory to my own experiences. However I do agree that women are especially guilty of the 'slut shaming'. But I was coming at it from the view that several times I have met so called sexually liberated men who I have then dated ... only to find they hold a view not quite in parallel with the image they initially tried to express. So when in time I wpuld become more open about my 'inner slut' (for want of a better word), many were intimidated, or fine with it as long as they could block out my sexual history . As if I was born again and only that way with them when the fact is, it is who I am. All of it. The lady. The 'whore' (as Freud puts it). It's all me.
Not sure if that makes sense.
I rarely meet a man who can honestly cope with ALL of me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"is the Madonna-whore complex still relevant in this day and age, and on sites such as this where usually the more sexual experience you have is often seen as a plus point..?
I would say it's rampant on here going by all the previous threads I've read where single folks of both sexes say that if they had a partner there's no way they'd ever swing...A case of what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own."
I think that is a more complex situation. I have said i would happily give up swinging if I met the right man. But only if he and I were sexually compatible. I wpuld need to know he is completely at ease and happy with my sexual past. If we both decided to include it in our sex lives then we could discuss without issue. It's the judgement that bothers me. What I may decide to do and how I express my sexual needs with who etc... is one thing but for a partner to know my sexual history and preferences /desires /fantasies and be completely fine about is, and not judge me, would be a nice place to be! Obviously I would only be in a relationship with someone who was sexually open anyway. Hence why I am single lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I do love Freud, but this part was nonsense. Your thread isn't nonsense. The complex doesn't exist in the way you think it does or for the reasons you state.
The words were from an article and not my own but I am not a great fan of Freud. However I can only compare and contrast this particular theory to my own experiences. However I do agree that women are especially guilty of the 'slut shaming'. But I was coming at it from the view that several times I have met so called sexually liberated men who I have then dated ... only to find they hold a view not quite in parallel with the image they initially tried to express. So when in time I wpuld become more open about my 'inner slut' (for want of a better word), many were intimidated, or fine with it as long as they could block out my sexual history . As if I was born again and only that way with them when the fact is, it is who I am. All of it. The lady. The 'whore' (as Freud puts it). It's all me.
Not sure if that makes sense.
I rarely meet a man who can honestly cope with ALL of me. "
That's because a lot of people think that kinky means using phrases like 'fuck my wet pussy' in a well-lit bedroom.
To understand the full picture, you need to appreciate 'adaptive preferences' from the context of 'evolutionary psychology'. Whenever someone tries to explain a phenomenon using simple categories like men and women, their analysis is flawed.
In simple terms, human nature is such that depending on how the majority of one sex act, minority groups will adapt their behaviour. So all men will never act the same way, neither will all women.
It's simple supply and demand at the end of the day. Most men have a subconscious bias that associates a symetrical face with good genes and an hour glass figure with strong probability of carrying a child that will survive. So the majority of men will find these features attractive. However, men also know that the women with the most symetrical faces and best hip to waist ratio want men with good resources and physical strength. So let's say I'm a man who has fuck all resources and is built like a string bean. If I compete with the alpha male head on then I'm going to lose, my genes don't get passed and they drop out of the evolutionary cycle. So what my genes do I develop an 'adaptive preference' for features that are less in demand, that I can compete for.
Now back to the point. Contraception is a new thing in evolutionary timelines. So most men are going to find it hard to share a woman because doing so has always worked against their probability of reproductive success. Which means, that the type of men you want are a minority. I'm guessing you also want a minority that has some attractive features too? So in simple terms, you just don't have a high probability of meeting the kind of guy you want from a random sample. The problem is your strategy, not the guys you meet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No desire at all for ladies I respect which sadly has ended few relationships
but, that's not to say I don't respect those I desire.. always, just in a different way because desire came first "
Oh you are a sufferer! Lol! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
People are the products of the society they are raised in. We live in a sexist culture. That misogyny is sometimes internalised by women and directed at other women. Especially when the alternative is still not socially acceptable.
Of course modern culture is moving towards feminity. It's moving closer to equality? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"People are the products of the society they are raised in. We live in a sexist culture. That misogyny is sometimes internalised by women and directed at other women. Especially when the alternative is still not socially acceptable.
Of course modern culture is moving towards feminity. It's moving closer to equality?"
Objection your honour, incomplete.
People are products of human nature, which is inherited. Culture, which is learned and their personality which is a mixture of inherited and learned. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *heManMan
over a year ago
Windsor |
"is the Madonna-whore complex still relevant in this day and age, and on sites such as this where usually the more sexual experience you have is often seen as a plus point..?
I would say it's rampant on here going by all the previous threads I've read where single folks of both sexes say that if they had a partner there's no way they'd ever swing...A case of what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own.
I think that is a more complex situation. I have said i would happily give up swinging if I met the right man. But only if he and I were sexually compatible. I wpuld need to know he is completely at ease and happy with my sexual past. If we both decided to include it in our sex lives then we could discuss without issue. It's the judgement that bothers me. What I may decide to do and how I express my sexual needs with who etc... is one thing but for a partner to know my sexual history and preferences /desires /fantasies and be completely fine about is, and not judge me, would be a nice place to be! Obviously I would only be in a relationship with someone who was sexually open anyway. Hence why I am single lol"
You're (both) raising two separate and interesting things here though:
1. Disclosing past history and being judged.
2. Being in a relationship and swinging - which raises the related and even more interesting question; why swing? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Owing to the superb critical analysis and synthesis of the discussion,I see a thesis on the horizon!
FAB gets published!!!
Not sure which International Journal we should send it to?
"
Hustler? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"is the Madonna-whore complex still relevant in this day and age, and on sites such as this where usually the more sexual experience you have is often seen as a plus point..?
I would say it's rampant on here going by all the previous threads I've read where single folks of both sexes say that if they had a partner there's no way they'd ever swing...A case of what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own.
I think that is a more complex situation. I have said i would happily give up swinging if I met the right man. But only if he and I were sexually compatible. I wpuld need to know he is completely at ease and happy with my sexual past. If we both decided to include it in our sex lives then we could discuss without issue. It's the judgement that bothers me. What I may decide to do and how I express my sexual needs with who etc... is one thing but for a partner to know my sexual history and preferences /desires /fantasies and be completely fine about is, and not judge me, would be a nice place to be! Obviously I would only be in a relationship with someone who was sexually open anyway. Hence why I am single lol
You're (both) raising two separate and interesting things here though:
1. Disclosing past history and being judged.
2. Being in a relationship and swinging - which raises the related and even more interesting question; why swing?"
Because all the variations of dp are better with real cocks |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Owing to the superb critical analysis and synthesis of the discussion,I see a thesis on the horizon!
FAB gets published!!!
Not sure which International Journal we should send it to?
Hustler? "
Ha! Why not! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"is the Madonna-whore complex still relevant in this day and age, and on sites such as this where usually the more sexual experience you have is often seen as a plus point..?
Not on here probably not. I was referring to society in general. "
I have guys contact me regularly here who don't want to sleep with women who are sleeping with more than one or two others (or have slept with lots in the past).
See also the amount of men who wouldn't "share" their life partner with others. They want someone "respectable" to settle down with - not a woman who enjoys have sex with people other than him.
The Madonna-whore complex is alive and well (and indeed often oppressive) on sites like this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex.
Maybe the wording was harsh but his point was spot on. One inconvenient fact for you is that 'slut shaming' is much more likely to come from women against women, than men to women. There are strong reasons grounded in ecolutionary psychology for this and multiple recent studies have confirmed that more online trolling against women, comes from women.
The second inconvenient fact is that we can objectively measure masculinity and femininity in national cultures. The best research on it is from a dutch guy called Hofstede. There is a lot of evidence that modern cultural trends have attempted to push cultures towards more feminine aspects. What you refer to as a 'nice guy' is what I would call a 'pussy'.
You can amuse yourself for several hours if you go on YouTube and see all the female social justice warriors complaining that most of the men who joined their movement later tried to hit on them (no shit sherlock).
I do love Freud, but this part was nonsense. Your thread isn't nonsense. The complex doesn't exist in the way you think it does or for the reasons you state. "
thanks for sticking up for me totally unnecessary but the thought I appreciate .
the OP refers to herself as a slut no doubt because she is turn on by the thought most men and woman would find her behaviour such.
she then goes onto bemoan those boys that can not except her behaviour as being ok and look on her in a different way because of it .
its madness as her own view of herself relies on people thinking of her as her argument out lines which of coarse lots of immature boys do think like .
madness utter madness
I suspect the op will not be attracted to a guy that would push the boundaries of her so called slutty behaviour because that would take her out of the comfort zone of thinking.
she's the one in control hence her picking boys instead of men and then bemoaning the behaviour of boys she picks in a post like this . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex. "
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be "
No offence but decent analysis never starts with vague terms like 'society' does this or 'men' want this or 'the media' say that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anB451Man
over a year ago
Reading |
there's no doubting the madonna-whore complex is very prevalent in a lot of people. I guess it's social and cultural norms that makes people want it.
personally I find the madonna bit a complete turn off. whether in a relationship or not. once you've been swinging you see that there's less appeal to it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be "
I'm sorry but your last line is utter bollocks in my opinion so now only feminist can be sexually liberated women total tosh. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be
No offence but decent analysis never starts with vague terms like 'society' does this or 'men' want this or 'the media' say that. "
No offence but I'm on my mobile and a forum on a swingers site if I was writing my dissertation on the impact of patriarchy on developing women and sexual liberty and freedom I would have much more in the way of footnotes and references!
Oh and in all due respect picking at the minutia of a statement rather than the content and context is no better than highlighting spelling and grammatical mistakes in an attempt to undermine a point without actually addressing said point! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be
I'm sorry but your last line is utter bollocks in my opinion so now only feminist can be sexually liberated women total tosh. "
Erm, no - hence me saying "allows ME" and then stated it was different for different people
And if you would like to counter a point with an alternative point that is slightly more worthwhile than the equivalent to a sun headline then maybe a debate can occur - as opposed to an approach that is atypical of those without lived experience who try to diminish the experience of those who are the subject topic because they don't like what they hear |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be
I'm sorry but your last line is utter bollocks in my opinion so now only feminist can be sexually liberated women total tosh.
Erm, no - hence me saying "allows ME" and then stated it was different for different people
And if you would like to counter a point with an alternative point that is slightly more worthwhile than the equivalent to a sun headline then maybe a debate can occur - as opposed to an approach that is atypical of those without lived experience who try to diminish the experience of those who are the subject topic because they don't like what they hear "
I would counter your argument with this being a feminist has fuck all to do with any ones sexuality , one is about getting great sex the other is about equality in sociality between men and women .
sex and how you like it has fuck all to do with that in my book. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be
No offence but decent analysis never starts with vague terms like 'society' does this or 'men' want this or 'the media' say that.
No offence but I'm on my mobile and a forum on a swingers site if I was writing my dissertation on the impact of patriarchy on developing women and sexual liberty and freedom I would have much more in the way of footnotes and references!
Oh and in all due respect picking at the minutia of a statement rather than the content and context is no better than highlighting spelling and grammatical mistakes in an attempt to undermine a point without actually addressing said point! "
I've already posted several things that undermine your content, context and general points. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Quite interesting to read this as having recently become single from my second partner, I've been examining both long term relationships I've had in my life.
I think my first partner/wife certainly fit both the Madonna and whore brackets. We met at 14 and were full time together at 16. Neither of us were Virgins at that point, but neither were we highly experienced. she was head girl at school, very popular with the teachers, and her peers, academically gifted and certainly didn't act slutty or as the school bike.
I guess I was something of the male equivalent at my school.
As we got to know each other though, we both realised that we were a lot more interested in sex than our public personas showed. We both liked porn, and from early days we discussed our desires for involving others in our play and our curiosity about playing with same sex partners.
By the time we were 21 we were inviting others to play with us and visited our first club when we were 25. We had an amazing journey of sexual discovery together and everything was shared, discussed and tried together. So she very much became the "whore" in the bedroom. But all the time being very much her family's, and my family's little princess who could do no wrong.
So I guess I had the best of both worlds in that respect. Just a pity I couldn't deal with my jealousy when she took her journey of sexual discovery behind my back! I think now almost 10 years on I would deal with it differently. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex.
Maybe the wording was harsh but his point was spot on. One inconvenient fact for you is that 'slut shaming' is much more likely to come from women against women, than men to women. There are strong reasons grounded in ecolutionary psychology for this and multiple recent studies have confirmed that more online trolling against women, comes from women.
The second inconvenient fact is that we can objectively measure masculinity and femininity in national cultures. The best research on it is from a dutch guy called Hofstede. There is a lot of evidence that modern cultural trends have attempted to push cultures towards more feminine aspects. What you refer to as a 'nice guy' is what I would call a 'pussy'.
You can amuse yourself for several hours if you go on YouTube and see all the female social justice warriors complaining that most of the men who joined their movement later tried to hit on them (no shit sherlock).
I do love Freud, but this part was nonsense. Your thread isn't nonsense. The complex doesn't exist in the way you think it does or for the reasons you state.
thanks for sticking up for me totally unnecessary but the thought I appreciate .
the OP refers to herself as a slut no doubt because she is turn on by the thought most men and woman would find her behaviour such.
she then goes onto bemoan those boys that can not except her behaviour as being ok and look on her in a different way because of it .
its madness as her own view of herself relies on people thinking of her as her argument out lines which of coarse lots of immature boys do think like .
madness utter madness
I suspect the op will not be attracted to a guy that would push the boundaries of her so called slutty behaviour because that would take her out of the comfort zone of thinking.
she's the one in control hence her picking boys instead of men and then bemoaning the behaviour of boys she picks in a post like this . "
Any chance you could refrain from being quite so unpleasant???? As if I can't read what you are saying about me? All this 'she' business????? What on earth have I said or done to upset you? ???
Everyone else has managed to discuss the topic without having a go at me (for what reason you are doing so? I have absolutely no idea!!!!!). I opened up a perfectly valid and interesting topic for discussion. Your prickly responses say far more about you than me. There simply is no need to be so personal and so rude. Just leave the forum as you don't want to discuss an interesting topic in a polite and respectful manner. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Owing to the superb critical analysis and synthesis of the discussion,I see a thesis on the horizon!
FAB gets published!!!
Not sure which International Journal we should send it to?
"
Sydney University  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be
I'm sorry but your last line is utter bollocks in my opinion so now only feminist can be sexually liberated women total tosh.
Erm, no - hence me saying "allows ME" and then stated it was different for different people
And if you would like to counter a point with an alternative point that is slightly more worthwhile than the equivalent to a sun headline then maybe a debate can occur - as opposed to an approach that is atypical of those without lived experience who try to diminish the experience of those who are the subject topic because they don't like what they hear
I would counter your argument with this being a feminist has fuck all to do with any ones sexuality , one is about getting great sex the other is about equality in sociality between men and women .
sex and how you like it has fuck all to do with that in my book. "
Equality has a lot to do with good sex in MY book!
An unequal partnership hardly leads to great things in the bedroom and orgasms
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Owing to the superb critical analysis and synthesis of the discussion,I see a thesis on the horizon!
FAB gets published!!!
Not sure which International Journal we should send it to?
Sydney University "
LOL! Well it's about time it got some recognition! ) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be
I'm sorry but your last line is utter bollocks in my opinion so now only feminist can be sexually liberated women total tosh.
Erm, no - hence me saying "allows ME" and then stated it was different for different people
And if you would like to counter a point with an alternative point that is slightly more worthwhile than the equivalent to a sun headline then maybe a debate can occur - as opposed to an approach that is atypical of those without lived experience who try to diminish the experience of those who are the subject topic because they don't like what they hear
I would counter your argument with this being a feminist has fuck all to do with any ones sexuality , one is about getting great sex the other is about equality in sociality between men and women .
sex and how you like it has fuck all to do with that in my book.
Equality has a lot to do with good sex in MY book!
An unequal partnership hardly leads to great things in the bedroom and orgasms
"
Agreed! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be
No offence but decent analysis never starts with vague terms like 'society' does this or 'men' want this or 'the media' say that.
No offence but I'm on my mobile and a forum on a swingers site if I was writing my dissertation on the impact of patriarchy on developing women and sexual liberty and freedom I would have much more in the way of footnotes and references!
Oh and in all due respect picking at the minutia of a statement rather than the content and context is no better than highlighting spelling and grammatical mistakes in an attempt to undermine a point without actually addressing said point!
I've already posted several things that undermine your content, context and general points. "
Sorry your reference to hustler was a great piece of logic
Honestly it's a forum - if you want the scholarly articles that back the concept that as women we are faced with a constant dycotamy surrounding our sexuality and the pressure to conform to a certain male standard I will send you links tomorrow when I'm on my PC |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *96funMan
over a year ago
Shirley |
Personally
I've always been attracted to sexual open women. Sharing a naughty but nice girl with other's is a beautiful experience. Hearing her tell of her previous exploits no matter how base is a huge turn on. Give me a girl who enjoys her sexuality over a supposed virgin any day.
The problem that some men have a problem coming to terms with is when a supposedly promiscuous women won't shag them. They get abusive, it's so wrong. You have to respect anyone's right to choose who they want or don't want.
Hope I made sense, it's a Tuesday and I haven't had a drink ???? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Society and media enforces these ideals upon us. Many (not all) men want to fuck the whore and marry the Madonna.
A nice sweet lady to have children with, introduce to friends, show the world they are 'respectable'. The whore could be the most interesting person on the planet but as long as she's open and in charge of her sexuality, he'll never want her for anything more than sex.
And then guys complain that their wife isn't adventurous / a whore in the bedroom.
It annoys the hell out of me - young women are conditioned to not be sexual. You're a bike / slut etc if you enjoy sexual contact but fridged if you don't.
Society judges sexually active women and those who enjoy sex.
Fast forward a few years and men want women who know what they're doing in the bedroom, who are adventurous and willing to try things ... but at the same time don't want the "number" of sexual partners to be too high !! Be a good shag ... but not too good!!
Then in marriage the issues of body image and the age old problem of not being allowed to be a sexual being are all present but the husband wants the good wife in the kitchen and whore in the bedroom partner!
You honestly can't win sometimes - being a feminist is what allows me to be sexually liberated (different for different people) as I don't care what anyone thinks I should be
I'm sorry but your last line is utter bollocks in my opinion so now only feminist can be sexually liberated women total tosh.
Erm, no - hence me saying "allows ME" and then stated it was different for different people
And if you would like to counter a point with an alternative point that is slightly more worthwhile than the equivalent to a sun headline then maybe a debate can occur - as opposed to an approach that is atypical of those without lived experience who try to diminish the experience of those who are the subject topic because they don't like what they hear
I would counter your argument with this being a feminist has fuck all to do with any ones sexuality , one is about getting great sex the other is about equality in sociality between men and women .
sex and how you like it has fuck all to do with that in my book.
Equality has a lot to do with good sex in MY book!
An unequal partnership hardly leads to great things in the bedroom and orgasms
"
Feminism is what gives you the freedom to express your sexuality as you choose to. If that means being a 24/7 slave, you can still be a feminist. The equality element for me... is equal choice to decide how you wish to play it out. You may choose to hand over to someone else in a power exchange situation. But initially you chose. You consented to it. That is the Freedom. That is how I see it as a submissive woman anyway. I don't claim to a great academic on the subject. But for me, freely and willingly handing over the reins to someone else is my right to choose to do. Of course the complexities of such a relationship are far deeper but that is unique to those involved. Not if that makes sense or if I explained that well? A bit off topic but oh well |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otgirl32Woman
over a year ago
Ashton Under Lyne |
"
Sexually assertive women are still very much looked down upon. Men can cheat, play around, be a stud. A woman, oh no no no."
Quite true with a few caveats. Most men would gladly fuck me but most won't want to date me or consider a long term relationship with someone like me. Society views women like me who enjoy multiple sex partners as a slut with no morals and no intelligence. Even if I'm unmarried and not cheating. Worse if I was. Only if I open my mouth during a discussion and begin to make a bit of sense do I trigger some respect. A man who sleeps around is "cool" even if he's married and it doesn't matter if he has only half a brain.
The exception to this is men who are much older (mid 50s and above) they are actually quite happy to date a woman like me and develop a relationship. It's probably because they have lived and are wiser. Surprisingly, the other group I find very accepting are much younger men in their 20s. Not all, but some - they are very accepting of a woman who is promiscuous and are quite keen to date one. Of course I don't know if they're just in love with the idea of being in love but I think it's more than that - this so-called internet generation has a broader view of things perhaps. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex. "
I agree, and it's not a 'mummy complex' as he keeps saying.
We're not talking about immature boys here but the dual standards, men, society and even us women hold about women being 'allowed' to be sexual beings. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Sexually assertive women are still very much looked down upon. Men can cheat, play around, be a stud. A woman, oh no no no.
Quite true with a few caveats. Most men would gladly fuck me but most won't want to date me or consider a long term relationship with someone like me. Society views women like me who enjoy multiple sex partners as a slut with no morals and no intelligence. Even if I'm unmarried and not cheating. Worse if I was. Only if I open my mouth during a discussion and begin to make a bit of sense do I trigger some respect. A man who sleeps around is "cool" even if he's married and it doesn't matter if he has only half a brain.
The exception to this is men who are much older (mid 50s and above) they are actually quite happy to date a woman like me and develop a relationship. It's probably because they have lived and are wiser. Surprisingly, the other group I find very accepting are much younger men in their 20s. Not all, but some - they are very accepting of a woman who is promiscuous and are quite keen to date one. Of course I don't know if they're just in love with the idea of being in love but I think it's more than that - this so-called internet generation has a broader view of things perhaps."
Spot on |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex.
I agree, and it's not a 'mummy complex' as he keeps saying.
We're not talking about immature boys here but the dual standards, men, society and even us women hold about women being 'allowed' to be sexual beings."
Thankyou. Someone who understands my point.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We're not talking about immature boys here but the dual standards, men, society and even us women hold about women being 'allowed' to be sexual beings.
Thankyou. Someone who understands my point...."
I thought is was perfectly clear form the off |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex.
Maybe the wording was harsh but his point was spot on. One inconvenient fact for you is that 'slut shaming' is much more likely to come from women against women, than men to women. There are strong reasons grounded in ecolutionary psychology for this and multiple recent studies have confirmed that more online trolling against women, comes from women.
The second inconvenient fact is that we can objectively measure masculinity and femininity in national cultures. The best research on it is from a dutch guy called Hofstede. There is a lot of evidence that modern cultural trends have attempted to push cultures towards more feminine aspects. What you refer to as a 'nice guy' is what I would call a 'pussy'.
You can amuse yourself for several hours if you go on YouTube and see all the female social justice warriors complaining that most of the men who joined their movement later tried to hit on them (no shit sherlock).
I do love Freud, but this part was nonsense. Your thread isn't nonsense. The complex doesn't exist in the way you think it does or for the reasons you state.
thanks for sticking up for me totally unnecessary but the thought I appreciate .
the OP refers to herself as a slut no doubt because she is turn on by the thought most men and woman would find her behaviour such.
she then goes onto bemoan those boys that can not except her behaviour as being ok and look on her in a different way because of it .
its madness as her own view of herself relies on people thinking of her as her argument out lines which of coarse lots of immature boys do think like .
madness utter madness
I suspect the op will not be attracted to a guy that would push the boundaries of her so called slutty behaviour because that would take her out of the comfort zone of thinking.
she's the one in control hence her picking boys instead of men and then bemoaning the behaviour of boys she picks in a post like this .
Any chance you could refrain from being quite so unpleasant???? As if I can't read what you are saying about me? All this 'she' business????? What on earth have I said or done to upset you? ???
Everyone else has managed to discuss the topic without having a go at me (for what reason you are doing so? I have absolutely no idea!!!!!). I opened up a perfectly valid and interesting topic for discussion. Your prickly responses say far more about you than me. There simply is no need to be so personal and so rude. Just leave the forum as you don't want to discuss an interesting topic in a polite and respectful manner. "
I'm discussing and offering my true thoughts on your post and your own words about yourself darling .
no offence is meant to you personally ,I'm just saying it as I see it yes I could be a sycophant and say what I think others or you may wish to hear or I can say my true thoughts,
I choose to say my true thoughts on the subject and your words about yourself this doesn't mean I don't respect you in fact it means the opposite , I respect you enough to tell you my true thoughts not some sycophantic crap designed to curry favour with you because your a pretty girl on a swingers site .
from my prospective in no way was that meant to upset you or cause you any offence ,
your right my posts do say more about me as a person than a lot of here they say a guy who is not a sycophant doesn't sugar coat the pill gives you his true thought which may mean I sometimes agree with others and at other times I will not,
integrity is rare on these types of sites I am just being true to myself in all my posts sorry if by doing so I came across as harsh that is often a by product of straight talking ,
once again I have no problem with you as a woman or a human being I was just speaking my mind like I said early not saying what I thought you or any one else wished to hear, |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex.
I agree, and it's not a 'mummy complex' as he keeps saying.
We're not talking about immature boys here but the dual standards, men, society and even us women hold about women being 'allowed' to be sexual beings."
the fact they have dual standards means they are immature little boys who lack the maturity to deal with reality of all sexuality and the Madonna complex is a mummy complex .
to nearly all men there mothers are saints a perfect woman they want a woman like there image of there mother for raising lids and such but as the op put it a totally slut in bed ,
only immature boys struggle to see a woman as a whole instead of fixating of one part of the whole . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"is the Madonna-whore complex still relevant in this day and age, and on sites such as this where usually the more sexual experience you have is often seen as a plus point..? "
it's very relevant in the behaviour of most men that try to meet me and treat me like a piece of meat. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Following a private and interesting discussion about this topic, I wondered if it might be an interesting forum discussion for us enlightened sexual deviants!
If you are unsure what the Madonna/Whore complex is, I have included one modern interpretation for you below :
The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect – with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive.
I’d like to say that in 2015, we’re all ready to give up Freudian psychology. But alas, here we are, still exemplifying the Madonna-Whore complex left, right and center. It’s in the very nature of the way that we’re socialized as men and women alike. We all feed into it – it just looks a little different than it did back in Freud’s day.
In 2015, the Madonna-Whore complex looks like a woman lying to her boyfriend about how many people’s she’s slept with because she doesn’t want him to know she’s ‘been around.’ It looks like him judging her for the number if she actually tells the truth.
The Madonna-Whore complex looks like the men who claim to be “Nice guys,” and then shame all sexually active women who aren’t sleeping with them. It looks like the divide that is placed between women who deserve respect in the eyes of a “Nice guy” and women who don’t.
The Madonna-Whore complex is thriving every time a guy tells you that you seem like a “Nice girl” and then is shocked to hear about your sexual history because the idea of you being a nice human being and a sexual human being are incompatible in his mind. It’s the assumption that the traits we value as stereotypically “feminine” are directly at odds with embracing one’s sexuality. That a person can’t be kind, understanding, composed and also sexually empowered. That they have to be one or the other.
I have frequently struggled with guys who I have dated in the past that suffered from this!
Your thoughts?
I'm sorry but not this old bullshit again
yes its all true if your attracted to immature boys with a mummy complex .
just look for a real man oh shit they have all been emasculated by woman moaning about immature men
Well I am not sure I would go so far as to call my thread bullshit!
I am merely opening up an interesting discussion as I am afraid I still find a lot of people suffer from it still. Sad in this day and age but there it is.
your responsible for who you date who you play with and who your attracted to .so if your attracted to immature little boys with a mummy complex don't moan about what there like after all you picked them no one else .
yes everything your post is talking about is true for certain type of boy and a lot more than I could add,
because being a man myself I'm privileged to insider information for that very reason.
I'm calling bullshit on the moaning about it because its all true and it isn't ever going to change there will always be immature boys with mummy complexes in the world .
Seems to me that denying the experiences of the women in this thread who have agreed that they have experienced it and then blaming them for choosing poorly (by which you mean you) and then saying they are moaning is the embodiment of the everyday sexism women experience.
Sexism such as the Madonna/whore complex.
I agree, and it's not a 'mummy complex' as he keeps saying.
We're not talking about immature boys here but the dual standards, men, society and even us women hold about women being 'allowed' to be sexual beings.
the fact they have dual standards means they are immature little boys who lack the maturity to deal with reality of all sexuality and the Madonna complex is a mummy complex .
to nearly all men there mothers are saints a perfect woman they want a woman like there image of there mother for raising lids and such but as the op put it a totally slut in bed ,
only immature boys struggle to see a woman as a whole instead of fixating of one part of the whole . "
Sadly most never grow out of it when they are single |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andemanMan
over a year ago
bedforshire |
This is an interesting debate.
The basis of the thoery is Male insecurity. Ie. A man fears his ability to satisfy and keep a woman who has as much or more experience then himself. The idea of "compensation" drives men to photshop thier dick photo, brag about thier car or position at work.
Also body image insecurity comes in here. Remeber the 0 +size debate about catwalk models? Well look at any cover of Mens Health Magazine and you quickly see the same issue for men. I am fairly fit but i have no time to spend 14 hours a day in the gym to look like the idealised image of a "REAL" Man that that suggests. Genetic birth type also plays a random rulette wheel on this.
Ageing also comes into this with older men finding it more difficult to keep a positive self image as the body breaks down. Hense the rocketing sale of Viagra!
Some one said lady in the street whore in the sheets. Actually i think this is more what a man actually wants(unless they are gay and again nothing wrong with that), the question of is this what they NEED is entierly different.
The madona whore complex exists clearly but it is not the fault of men alone but of Society as a whole. Woman suffer from it but also help to pepetuate it. What woman does not actually want the Mens Health Man? Be hounest unless you are a lesbian (nothing wrong with that) that is what you want. Even, i would suggest, if you are a femdom the challange of a visually powerful male being your slave excentuates your feeling of power and dominance.
Dont anyone think i am blaming Woman for it, that would be rediculious, men give into this false image and the insecurity it leads to with all the negative consequence that brings. Also woman suffer the same problem perpetuated in part by men.
As Swingers i hope that we try to move beyond these false images and expectations and the insecurity that they generate and are responsible for.
Sadly there are a lot of people who come on the scene becouse of them and not as a way of moving beyond them.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *xxxMan
over a year ago
Bedford & Chester |
"
Sexually assertive women are still very much looked down upon. Men can cheat, play around, be a stud. A woman, oh no no no.
"
I think this point links in with many others on here in that these days it could be summed up as the differene between sexism and respecting sexuality. Most guys on here, I like to hope, would fit into the latter.
Good post though |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
