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affair or not?

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

Ok so I'm intrigued to hear people's opinions on members joining as singles but are actually married and on here without the spouse knowing...is it an affair? or is it different because it's a swingers site and not a dating site?. The topic of ' I've been chatting to a married member' seems to come up fairly often.

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By *litterbabeWoman  over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Its cheating. To me an affair is different again.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago
Forum Mod

An affair carrys emotion

I believe that the majority of married people on here treat it as just a fuck and nothing more

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By *andomfodCouple  over a year ago

walsall

Agreed. Affairs are longer running and potentially, emotions get involved.

Still cheating though.

B

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By *eerobCouple  over a year ago

solihull

Depends on the nature of cheating iguess. If its regular it an affair, which ever cheating or an affair its always going to hurt someone

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Without consent of your partner is cheating, an ongoing relationship is an affair, but what do I know, I'm a cheat by all accounts xx

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By *oxycouple28Couple  over a year ago

bexley

As above really.

Cheating = pure sex

affair = sex and emotions

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago
Forum Mod

I should add that the fallout would be just as devastating

I don't know if I'd be more pissed off that my marriage was compromised due to a random fuck that meant nothing or an affair that did

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Without consent of your partner is cheating, an ongoing relationship is an affair, but what do I know, I'm a cheat by all accounts xx"

Oh dear lol..so your married? Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

There are different reasons for, and different types of cheating.

I see an affair as a long-term emotional relationship acting as a surrogate or replacement for a relationship missing that emotional bond, love, closeness, etc.

Sex may be the same or different to some people.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"As above really.

Cheating = pure sex

affair = sex and emotions"

Any cheating wives on!? i want one

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I should add that the fallout would be just as devastating

I don't know if I'd be more pissed off that my marriage was compromised due to a random fuck that meant nothing or an affair that did"

Its an odd one isn't it..I'm a massive thinker and I can't get my head around this one lol. Are we hypocrites saying it's cheating?, when in theory people could also say that we are cheating..but our argument could be, but we both consent to it. It's such a tricky debate :/

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"There are different reasons for, and different types of cheating.

I see an affair as a long-term emotional relationship acting as a surrogate or replacement for a relationship missing that emotional bond, love, closeness, etc.

Sex may be the same or different to some people. "

Yes I guess you are right..maybe I should of said affair and or cheating..kinda the same thing to me but I get the difference now lol. Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago
Forum Mod

Don't tear your hair out about it

If you believe what you're doing is cheating then call it consensual cheating

I don't agree that it's cheating of any sort though

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Why can everyone just do their thing and respect others choices?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I think it is cheating if it's just sex. Like you say OP surely every couple consenting or none consenting who have sexual relations with others is cheating also.

Difference being you may have either a partner with similar sexual interests or a very understanding partner.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Without consent of your partner is cheating, an ongoing relationship is an affair, but what do I know, I'm a cheat by all accounts xx

Oh dear lol..so your married? Darcy x"

Nope, divorced, she cheated on me but hey that's life I suppose, I have a girlfriend x

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Its cheating. To me an affair is different again. "

Ok affair or cheating..is cheating more acceptable? Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I believe a famous Irish philosopher said it best: "Life is a roller coaster, just gotta ride it

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Without consent of your partner is cheating, an ongoing relationship is an affair, but what do I know, I'm a cheat by all accounts xx

Oh dear lol..so your married? Darcy x

Nope, divorced, she cheated on me but hey that's life I suppose, I have a girlfriend x"

Happens to the best of us. Years,down the line you think..cheers mate, you done me a favour lol.

And does your girlfriend know you are swinging? See affairs to me used to mean if you was married..cheating was if your in a relationship..I've now learn the real meaning lol. Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Is it an affair? I'd say no as that to me indicates a more emotional bond than just a physical fling.

I do think playing without your significant others knowledge or permission is cheating though...

But each to their own I guess.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We often think we probably keep many a marriage going as we meet so many men on our digging adventures .

As has been said , it's cheating by those who are married , but it's just sex without emotion .

Far better that than an affair I would think .

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I believe a famous Irish philosopher said it best: "Life is a roller coaster, just gotta ride it"

As Steel Panther said "my heart belongs to you, but my cock is community property"

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Without consent of your partner is cheating, an ongoing relationship is an affair, but what do I know, I'm a cheat by all accounts xx

Oh dear lol..so your married? Darcy x

Nope, divorced, she cheated on me but hey that's life I suppose, I have a girlfriend x

Happens to the best of us. Years,down the line you think..cheers mate, you done me a favour lol.

And does your girlfriend know you are swinging? See affairs to me used to mean if you was married..cheating was if your in a relationship..I've now learn the real meaning lol. Darcy x"

She does not I'm afraid x

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By *inkxRabbitWoman  over a year ago

Mostly in GU24


"As above really.

Cheating = pure sex

affair = sex and emotions"

I'm guilty of all of the above.

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By *litterbabeWoman  over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

To me if everyone involves knows the relationship status and has consented it doesnt feel like cheating. It's when there is any deceit involved then to me its cheating.

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By *aneandpaulCouple  over a year ago

cleveleys

say,s on your profile a very much in love couple but if it,s behind his back not much love there

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Why can everyone just do their thing and respect others choices? "

It's nobody's business who does what at the end of the day..I'm just intrigued about what people's _iews are...of course if I was the person sitting at home oblivious as too what my partner was doing..then I may think differently. Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I think it is cheating if it's just sex. Like you say OP surely every couple consenting or none consenting who have sexual relations with others is cheating also.

Difference being you may have either a partner with similar sexual interests or a very understanding partner. "

Exactly..that's why I feel it's harsh for anyone in this 'scene' to judge another. Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"say,s on your profile a very much in love couple but if it,s behind his back not much love there "

If you read my op then you will realise this question is not about myself and Ted lol. We are a strong couple who is in love...you've mis-understood my post. I'm asking peoples opinions as I'm seeing posts saying that they are chatting to married people. It's a debate shall I say! Darcy

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Don't tear your hair out about it

If you believe what you're doing is cheating then call it consensual cheating

I don't agree that it's cheating of any sort though "

No I think you maybe right. In my eyes cheating means behind someone's back..so guess we are ok if we lay on our backs lol. Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It really annoys me when people say "it's just sex, not emotional, it isn't cheating". I'd be very pissed off and hurt if I had a partner and he was just texting another woman in "that way".

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"It really annoys me when people say "it's just sex, not emotional, it isn't cheating". I'd be very pissed off and hurt if I had a partner and he was just texting another woman in "that way".

"

I wouldn't like it if I was the person at home non the wiser..I've had someone cheat on me and it was soul destroying at the time..everyone has different _iews I guess don't they.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I agree with above.

Cheating = one offs, just sex.

Affair = more regular, care about each other.

Mutually consensual cheating = who cares as long as its fun!

I see some married guys and I don't care what it's called. It's up to them and their conscience.

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By *icecouple561Couple  over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I think the decision about what to call it should lie with the partner of the "single" married person.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Yes its an affair to spice things up with new fresh meat

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Why do people in here have to label everything...

2 adults agree to have sex

End of story

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

An affair is a romantic relationship with another person who isn't your partner.

"Just sex" could be literally just that, a one-off, but there's a middle area of friends having sex, without emotional relationship type attachment.

As with all kinds of sexual relationships, there's a myriad of circumstances and possibilities for those who are here without their partner too. To boil it down to one thing or another is naive.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Why do people in here have to label everything...

2 adults agree to have sex

End of story "

Not labelling..just asking for opinions..why do people have to argue about everything on here lol. Darcy

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why do people in here have to label everything...

2 adults agree to have sex

End of story

Not labelling..just asking for opinions..why do people have to argue about everything on here lol. Darcy"

This isn't an argument it's a discussion

Gah now I've gone and labelled something!

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By *helbeeCouple  over a year ago

Nuneaton

im seperated but still legally married my ex husband is on dateing sites.An its a lot different when you are seperated as im not with my husband any more. We lead seperate lifes, An we are ex s an live apart from one another an getting divorced, I just dont want a relationship an Nsa suits me at the mo an convienant

An i dont want a bf/ an enter into another relationship

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By *imply_SensualMan  over a year ago

warrington

If you have a partner and they know nothing about what you are doing, whether its a one-off, long term fling or whatever, it is cheating, simple as that.

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By *iewMan  over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

Cheating but none of my business what others do...

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I'm pretty sure the question wasn't 'is it cheating'. Everyone would agree that it is.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"It really annoys me when people say "it's just sex, not emotional, it isn't cheating". I'd be very pissed off and hurt if I had a partner and he was just texting another woman in "that way".

I wouldn't like it if I was the person at home non the wiser..I've had someone cheat on me and it was soul destroying at the time..everyone has different _iews I guess don't they."

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"If you have a partner and they know nothing about what you are doing, whether its a one-off, long term fling or whatever, it is cheating, simple as that."

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I'm pretty sure the question wasn't 'is it cheating'. Everyone would agree that it is. "

Cheating/affair..pretty much the same thing really. I was just intrigued as to what people thought as I've seen so many people in the past post that it's only sex or its just swinging..kinda wondered if that was the general way of thinking. Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/03/15 16:49:48]

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"im seperated but still legally married my ex husband is on dateing sites.An its a lot different when you are seperated as im not with my husband any more. We lead seperate lifes, An we are ex s an live apart from one another an getting divorced, I just dont want a relationship an Nsa suits me at the mo an convienant

An i dont want a bf/ an enter into another relationship "

Absolutely..but that's different..your both going your own separate ways and I wouldn't call that cheating or having an affair..that's just called moving on in my eyes. Darcy.x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'm pretty sure the question wasn't 'is it cheating'. Everyone would agree that it is.

Cheating/affair..pretty much the same thing really. I was just intrigued as to what people thought as I've seen so many people in the past post that it's only sex or its just swinging..kinda wondered if that was the general way of thinking. Darcy x"

Ah ok. Well I think most would agree it's all cheating, of which an affair is just one type of cheating. I think they are actually different things, because there can be cheating without being an affair. 'Affair' isn't actually a term I'd use for most arrangements on here.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Cheating but none of my business what others do..."

Absolutely..but everyone can have an opinion, and as this isn't directed at anybody in particular then your not poking your nose in :D. Darcy x

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By *helbeeCouple  over a year ago

Nuneaton


"im seperated but still legally married my ex husband is on dateing sites.An its a lot different when you are seperated as im not with my husband any more. We lead seperate lifes, An we are ex s an live apart from one another an getting divorced, I just dont want a relationship an Nsa suits me at the mo an convienant

An i dont want a bf/ an enter into another relationship

Absolutely..but that's different..your both going your own separate ways and I wouldn't call that cheating or having an affair..that's just called moving on in my eyes. Darcy.x"

Iam moving on an having a lot of fun an find im getting confidence since ive been on here, An i find it suits me an my situ, an ive moved on from my ex husband an loving single life im having a lot more fun

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I'm pretty sure the question wasn't 'is it cheating'. Everyone would agree that it is.

Cheating/affair..pretty much the same thing really. I was just intrigued as to what people thought as I've seen so many people in the past post that it's only sex or its just swinging..kinda wondered if that was the general way of thinking. Darcy x

Ah ok. Well I think most would agree it's all cheating, of which an affair is just one type of cheating. I think they are actually different things, because there can be cheating without being an affair. 'Affair' isn't actually a term I'd use for most arrangements on here. "

Yes it seems I used the wrong choice of word lol..but affair and cheating means the same thing to me. However I personally think It's the person who is in the relationship that needs to worry about the 'partner' not the other 'swinger'..I mean for all we know loads could be secretly married lol. Darcy

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"im seperated but still legally married my ex husband is on dateing sites.An its a lot different when you are seperated as im not with my husband any more. We lead seperate lifes, An we are ex s an live apart from one another an getting divorced, I just dont want a relationship an Nsa suits me at the mo an convienant

An i dont want a bf/ an enter into another relationship

Absolutely..but that's different..your both going your own separate ways and I wouldn't call that cheating or having an affair..that's just called moving on in my eyes. Darcy.x

Iam moving on an having a lot of fun an find im getting confidence since ive been on here, An i find it suits me an my situ, an ive moved on from my ex husband an loving single life im having a lot more fun "

Brilliant..and that's how it should be..swinging seems to becoming alot more complicated than it needs to be..its almost like a lot of people are looking at it like a dating site lol. Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'm pretty sure the question wasn't 'is it cheating'. Everyone would agree that it is.

Cheating/affair..pretty much the same thing really. I was just intrigued as to what people thought as I've seen so many people in the past post that it's only sex or its just swinging..kinda wondered if that was the general way of thinking. Darcy x

Ah ok. Well I think most would agree it's all cheating, of which an affair is just one type of cheating. I think they are actually different things, because there can be cheating without being an affair. 'Affair' isn't actually a term I'd use for most arrangements on here.

Yes it seems I used the wrong choice of word lol..but affair and cheating means the same thing to me. However I personally think It's the person who is in the relationship that needs to worry about the 'partner' not the other 'swinger'..I mean for all we know loads could be secretly married lol. Darcy"

I'd agree with that. There are other people who aren't comfortable with it though which is totally up to them, but for me it's the person in the relationship's decision to make and their responsibility.

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By *helbeeCouple  over a year ago

Nuneaton


"im seperated but still legally married my ex husband is on dateing sites.An its a lot different when you are seperated as im not with my husband any more. We lead seperate lifes, An we are ex s an live apart from one another an getting divorced, I just dont want a relationship an Nsa suits me at the mo an convienant

An i dont want a bf/ an enter into another relationship

Absolutely..but that's different..your both going your own separate ways and I wouldn't call that cheating or having an affair..that's just called moving on in my eyes. Darcy.x

Iam moving on an having a lot of fun an find im getting confidence since ive been on here, An i find it suits me an my situ, an ive moved on from my ex husband an loving single life im having a lot more fun

Brilliant..and that's how it should be..swinging seems to becoming alot more complicated than it needs to be..its almost like a lot of people are looking at it like a dating site lol. Darcy x"

i dont see it as a dateing site i dont want the trappings of another relationship so nsa for me is the way to go.

An ive had some good social meets an some fun too an i get to feel confident wear nice lingerie an still keep my life as a singleton. Happy days

An now feel more confident an happy

esp talking to a nice sexy guy an chatting

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

In my opinion if you're in a relationship /married etc and you're on here without your other half you're cheating and keeping things from them ..

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By *ady LickWoman  over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere


"An affair is a romantic relationship with another person who isn't your partner.

"Just sex" could be literally just that, a one-off, but there's a middle area of friends having sex, without emotional relationship type attachment.

As with all kinds of sexual relationships, there's a myriad of circumstances and possibilities for those who are here without their partner too. To boil it down to one thing or another is naive. "

Totally this

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"im seperated but still legally married my ex husband is on dateing sites.An its a lot different when you are seperated as im not with my husband any more. We lead seperate lifes, An we are ex s an live apart from one another an getting divorced, I just dont want a relationship an Nsa suits me at the mo an convienant

An i dont want a bf/ an enter into another relationship

Absolutely..but that's different..your both going your own separate ways and I wouldn't call that cheating or having an affair..that's just called moving on in my eyes. Darcy.x

Iam moving on an having a lot of fun an find im getting confidence since ive been on here, An i find it suits me an my situ, an ive moved on from my ex husband an loving single life im having a lot more fun

Brilliant..and that's how it should be..swinging seems to becoming alot more complicated than it needs to be..its almost like a lot of people are looking at it like a dating site lol. Darcy x

i dont see it as a dateing site i dont want the trappings of another relationship so nsa for me is the way to go.

An ive had some good social meets an some fun too an i get to feel confident wear nice lingerie an still keep my life as a singleton. Happy days

An now feel more confident an happy

esp talking to a nice sexy guy an chatting "

And that's how it should be . Darcy

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I'm pretty sure the question wasn't 'is it cheating'. Everyone would agree that it is.

Cheating/affair..pretty much the same thing really. I was just intrigued as to what people thought as I've seen so many people in the past post that it's only sex or its just swinging..kinda wondered if that was the general way of thinking. Darcy x

Ah ok. Well I think most would agree it's all cheating, of which an affair is just one type of cheating. I think they are actually different things, because there can be cheating without being an affair. 'Affair' isn't actually a term I'd use for most arrangements on here.

Yes it seems I used the wrong choice of word lol..but affair and cheating means the same thing to me. However I personally think It's the person who is in the relationship that needs to worry about the 'partner' not the other 'swinger'..I mean for all we know loads could be secretly married lol. Darcy

I'd agree with that. There are other people who aren't comfortable with it though which is totally up to them, but for me it's the person in the relationship's decision to make and their responsibility. "

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Cheating and even worse than an affair. At least an affair usually comes from shared experiences and liking someone, to cheat in this way would be like saying that your spouse isn't good enough to even fuck. Affairs often happen by chance whereas he or she didn't join this site by chance.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Cheating fucking scumbags after all there only on here to empty there bunkers !!!! Not right have a wank instead !!!! I feel better now I've got that off my chest

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Ok so I'm intrigued to hear people's opinions on members joining as singles but are actually married and on here without the spouse knowing...is it an affair? or is it different because it's a swingers site and not a dating site?. The topic of ' I've been chatting to a married member' seems to come up fairly often."
Other people's marriages are other people's marriages. My simplistic _iew is that I do not worry about it and consider that they are just here for a good fuck.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Personally i think there is a difference between cheating and an affair. Cheating is a physical act and an affair is emotional as well in my opinion.

A few months ago I found out that a 15 month relationship i had been in was an affair when his partner rang me up after finding my phone number.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone, so I avoid meeting married men as much as possible. xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Cheating fucking scumbags after all there only on here to empty there bunkers !!!! Not right have a wank instead !!!! I feel better now I've got that off my chest "

Hahaha

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Personally i think there is a difference between cheating and an affair. Cheating is a physical act and an affair is emotional as well in my opinion.

A few months ago I found out that a 15 month relationship i had been in was an affair when his partner rang me up after finding my phone number.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone, so I avoid meeting married men as much as possible. xx"

Definitely a horrible feeling and that was awful for you and her..what a snake he was.

Personally it would be too much of a spider's web for me. It may only be a 'fuck' to the 'swingers', but to the partner they would quite possibly see it completely differently. Definitely each to their own, but we steer clear of single profiles that are attached. Darcy x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Its cheating

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By *ardbellyCouple  over a year ago

Alicante

If my ex had enjoyed sex a bit more often I would never needed to have an affair ? But she did say it would have been easier to take if it wasn't emotional ? But it does seem a bit naive to come on a swingers site and not believe a lot of guys are playing about ? ( and some women ? )

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By *adja_lazloCouple  over a year ago

Solihull


"Ok so I'm intrigued to hear people's opinions on members joining as singles but are actually married and on here without the spouse knowing...is it an affair? or is it different because it's a swingers site and not a dating site?. The topic of ' I've been chatting to a married member' seems to come up fairly often."

cheating/affair, wide birth no way x

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By *histler21Man  over a year ago

Ipswich


"An affair carrys emotion

I believe that the majority of married people on here treat it as just a fuck and nothing more"

There is love. And there is sex. The two aren't the same. I can separate the two because of my circumstances.

BUT that does not mean I have no 'feelings' (double negative) for the people I meet - I wouldn't meet them if I didn't like them as people.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Cheating. Full stop. Selfish . Do not give a jot about the hurt they cause. I've been there and it hurts . Trust me

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By *lirtyjjWoman  over a year ago

Meath

Just sex for me

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Just sex for me "
just sex for you. And just pain for the unknowing wife or partner. !!!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Cheating. Full stop. Selfish . Do not give a jot about the hurt they cause. I've been there and it hurts . Trust me "

This cos deceit hurts someone cracks me when a married guy claims to be honest and genuine when he's playing away swinging is open cheating is not

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"An affair carrys emotion

I believe that the majority of married people on here treat it as just a fuck and nothing more

There is love. And there is sex. The two aren't the same. I can separate the two because of my circumstances.

BUT that does not mean I have no 'feelings' (double negative) for the people I meet - I wouldn't meet them if I didn't like them as people.

"

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By *arbarella PartiesWoman  over a year ago

oxford


"I should add that the fallout would be just as devastating

I don't know if I'd be more pissed off that my marriage was compromised due to a random fuck that meant nothing or an affair that did

Its an odd one isn't it..I'm a massive thinker and I can't get my head around this one lol. Are we hypocrites saying it's cheating?, when in theory people could also say that we are cheating..but our argument could be, but we both consent to it. It's such a tricky debate :/"

But surely you both make/made the decision to have extra marital/relationship fun together so you both had the choice to say yes or no. By having an affair or Cheating on someone you take away that choice.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

This thread has made me think. And I'm a lucky bugger

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By *adybee77Woman  over a year ago

MAMOBA, miles and miles of bugger all (Aberdeenshire)

To me -

cheating is sex or intimacy without your partners knowledge.

An affair is intimacy, emotions and a deeper connection over a longer period of time.

I'm with someone but here as a single lady as I meet as a single - with his understand and knowledge. He also has my full blessing to meet others. Its very open. So I see that as open relationship

To me swinging is about doing it together, so at the moment, I am not really a swinger as I meet as a single for NSA...

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Cheating

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman  over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Their business

No one else's!

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By *atexxxWoman  over a year ago

wallasey

Cheating but no mattr 2 me

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By *atexxxWoman  over a year ago

wallasey


"Their business

No one else's! "

I agree xxxx

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By *inkxRabbitWoman  over a year ago

Mostly in GU24


"As above really.

Cheating = pure sex

affair = sex and emotions"

I have both and am married. It's a lifestyle that I wish I'd been living for the last 10 years.

I don't consider it cheating. My husband has broken our vows by failing on so many counts, me failing on one is nothing in comparison.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I think if the spouse doesn't know it's cheating if the spouse knows it's good sexual fun

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I think if the spouse doesn't know it's cheating if the spouse knows it's good sexual fun "

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By *lirtyjjWoman  over a year ago

Meath


"Just sex for me just sex for you. And just pain for the unknowing wife or partner. !!!"

Its not pain if they are unknowing. And that's my cross to bear not yours.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Agreed. Affairs are longer running and potentially, emotions get involved.

Still cheating though.

B"

this

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