FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swingers Chat > bareback
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"Well at least they're upfront and you can say no" You've taken the wind out of his sails now, just when he was venting his spleen. | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in!" I always wear my contact lenses | |||
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"I don't think many will turn down such a meet tbh." Not sure about that, shag. It's a risk to everyone's health....but hey! Each to their own as they say. | |||
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"I don't think many will turn down such a meet tbh. Not sure about that, shag. It's a risk to everyone's health....but hey! Each to their own as they say." Yes your right there nobby about that one, each to their own. | |||
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"Well at least they're upfront and you can say no" Exactly this. Why does it bother you so much, they're upfront, you can walk away no harm done. | |||
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"Just cant see why they want to bareback with someone they know nothing about. It really gets to me" Well don't let it get to you. What others do is not your concern if it doesn't affect you. Look after your own sexual health and leave others to theirs. | |||
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"Just cant see why they want to bareback with someone they know nothing about. It really gets to me Well don't let it get to you. What others do is not your concern if it doesn't affect you. Look after your own sexual health and leave others to theirs." My thoughts exactly, there all grown ups let them look after them selfs , and you just worry about what your doing. | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in!" It's the major question in all the horse riding forums as well | |||
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"Just cant see why they want to bareback with someone they know nothing about. It really gets to me Well don't let it get to you. What others do is not your concern if it doesn't affect you. Look after your own sexual health and leave others to theirs. My thoughts exactly, there all grown ups let them look after them selfs , and you just worry about what your doing." | |||
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"Just cant see why they want to bareback with someone they know nothing about. It really gets to me" its called choice (not ours incidently) you can always decline | |||
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"By the way, many women do bareback even tho stated safe play on their profile." Like lots of people are smokers and claim not to be or are bi and claim to be straight or are really a little older than their profile states etc etc. Don't rely on what their profile says. | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in!" Maybe they have a better understanding of probability, risk management, and consequences than most. Bareback sex isn't going to kill you. Three people die every day in the UK in a car. Now which activity are you going to avoid? | |||
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"N E V E R. Might as well opt for euthanasia. " Euthanasia is a choice Bareback is Russian roulette x | |||
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"Just cant see why they want to bareback with someone they know nothing about. It really gets to me" I agree - risk of pregnancy seems to not bother so many too S x | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in! Maybe they have a better understanding of probability, risk management, and consequences than most. Bareback sex isn't going to kill you. Three people die every day in the UK in a car. Now which activity are you going to avoid?" Wrong! My friends brother died of aids! ... Bareback DOES kill! ........ | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in! Maybe they have a better understanding of probability, risk management, and consequences than most. Bareback sex isn't going to kill you. Three people die every day in the UK in a car. Now which activity are you going to avoid?" Perhaps. However many many things that are considered recreational come with risks that are carefully managed... Why are people that manage the risk associated with recreational swinging somehow less 'risk management' aware than those who don't?! | |||
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"By the way, many women do bareback even tho stated safe play on their profile." I have on manyyyy occasions, so dont state that i play safe coz i have been known to take a risk and can admit it | |||
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"We have a winner! I'm surprised it took that long for someone to erroneously equate unprotected sex with Russian Roulette. " Ever played roulette in Russia? The vodka makes it very entertaining x | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in! Maybe they have a better understanding of probability, risk management, and consequences than most. Bareback sex isn't going to kill you. Three people die every day in the UK in a car. Now which activity are you going to avoid? Perhaps. However many many things that are considered recreational come with risks that are carefully managed... Why are people that manage the risk associated with recreational swinging somehow less 'risk management' aware than those who don't?! " My point is they aren't very good at actually understanding what the risk is. Shouts of "Russian Roulette" and "Its basically euthanasia!" show that people think it's far more risky than it is and that the consequences are far worse. If people actually knew what they were talking about there wouldn't be such ridiculously sensationalist and bombastic statements that just betray the complete ignorance of the poster. I have no problem with people having safe sex. I have safe sex too from time to time though my preference is for bareback. Just make a choice from a position of knowledge, no a Daily Mail-like warped sense of reality. | |||
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"We have a winner! I'm surprised it took that long for someone to erroneously equate unprotected sex with Russian Roulette. Ever played roulette in Russia? The vodka makes it very entertaining x" Being Tea Total and having a care for freedom of expression means Russia holds very little appeal for me so I've no expectations of visiting any time soon :P | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in! Maybe they have a better understanding of probability, risk management, and consequences than most. Bareback sex isn't going to kill you. Three people die every day in the UK in a car. Now which activity are you going to avoid? Perhaps. However many many things that are considered recreational come with risks that are carefully managed... Why are people that manage the risk associated with recreational swinging somehow less 'risk management' aware than those who don't?! My point is they aren't very good at actually understanding what the risk is. Shouts of "Russian Roulette" and "Its basically euthanasia!" show that people think it's far more risky than it is and that the consequences are far worse. If people actually knew what they were talking about there wouldn't be such ridiculously sensationalist and bombastic statements that just betray the complete ignorance of the poster. I have no problem with people having safe sex. I have safe sex too from time to time though my preference is for bareback. Just make a choice from a position of knowledge, no a Daily Mail-like warped sense of reality." It's simply their opinion, as yours is yours. Some people are risk adverse; others less so-That will influence how they view bareback and does not necessarily make them ignorant. With regard to sensationalist/bombastic statements there aremany different personalities on fab so it's natural that may come across in their posts or perhaps they just hold a particularly strong opinion. | |||
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"I don't think many will turn down such a meet tbh." Your right man cos I probly wouldnt some people just post whats expected of them | |||
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"Well done for completely missing the point. " In the interest of debate, how have I missed the point? | |||
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"You live in a wonderful world, I wish reality could sometimes be as nice. When you sleep with someone bareback you increase risk...(forget Russian roulette it's an apology) but you will still be having sex with all their partners. STI's are on the increase and mostly in hetosexal people. Life's short enough without shaving a bit off. But you are entitled to your opinion x" S x | |||
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"Well done for completely missing the point. In the interest of debate, how have I missed the point? " It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact. People get caught up in the emotional response and social conditioning towards unprotected sex compared to say driving a car but they totally ignore the factual basis on which they claim to be making their decision. If they really did care about the risk then they would never step into a car again or understand that bareback sex is not that risky at all and stop being so against it. People just don't like acknowledging when their beliefs are not in line with reality. | |||
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"yawn yawn Some people choose to play bareback, some choose to use a condom (we use a condom) The rights & wrongs, the risks have been discussed a thousand times over, but bareback threads seem to be always started by guys thinking they will impress the ladies by saying " can understand why anyone barebacks I always use a condom" "Yawn yawn yawn" Impressed by the guy who admitted he was HIV+ on this post and lists it on his profile too, good on you fella xx" Thanks. | |||
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"I don't think many will turn down such a meet tbh. Your right man cos I probly wouldnt some people just post whats expected of them " thats right and to come across respectful too lol. | |||
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"Well done for completely missing the point. In the interest of debate, how have I missed the point? It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact. People get caught up in the emotional response and social conditioning towards unprotected sex compared to say driving a car but they totally ignore the factual basis on which they claim to be making their decision. If they really did care about the risk then they would never step into a car again or understand that bareback sex is not that risky at all and stop being so against it. People just don't like acknowledging when their beliefs are not in line with reality." Do agree with this | |||
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"Well done for completely missing the point. In the interest of debate, how have I missed the point? It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact. People get caught up in the emotional response and social conditioning towards unprotected sex compared to say driving a car but they totally ignore the factual basis on which they claim to be making their decision. If they really did care about the risk then they would never step into a car again or understand that bareback sex is not that risky at all and stop being so against it. People just don't like acknowledging when their beliefs are not in line with reality." But bareback sex DOES carry risk. You've just stated its not that risky at all when actually there is still a risk there! How risky you perceive it to be depends on several factors, not least being a risk taker or being risk adverse. It's a calculated decision making process for people, one that will have different outcomes dependant upon contributing factors. You might love sky diving, or free climbing... Others might think you're completely irresponsible given the risk. | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all" You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided." More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. " I'm sure you agree that people are more likely to believe a large number of health professionals when they say bareback sex is life threatening. | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. " Just to play devils advocate, are you as a HIV positive bisexual person with a boyfriend (whom I'm assuming you have unprotected sex with) advocating 'bareback' with random strangers? | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. I'm sure you agree that people are more likely to believe a large number of health professionals when they say bareback sex is life threatening. " Crossing the road is life threatening, going out in a car is life threatening Virtually everything you will ever do in your life is life threatening and will have killed someone at some point It's the understanding of probability and how risky a particular activity is is where the knowledge gap seems to be I use condoms because I still enjoy sex with them and have decided the risk from unprotected sex is generally avoidable But I also understand that my choice to be a car driver and a red meat eater is way more risky in terms of risk of death than someone not doing those but barebacking | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. I'm sure you agree that people are more likely to believe a large number of health professionals when they say bareback sex is life threatening. Crossing the road is life threatening, going out in a car is life threatening Virtually everything you will ever do in your life is life threatening and will have killed someone at some point It's the understanding of probability and how risky a particular activity is is where the knowledge gap seems to be I use condoms because I still enjoy sex with them and have decided the risk from unprotected sex is generally avoidable But I also understand that my choice to be a car driver and a red meat eater is way more risky in terms of risk of death than someone not doing those but barebacking" Exactly, its about managing the risks in your life and what is deemed an acceptable risk against what pleasure or fun you want to have. For some the risk is the pleasure | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. " Also “undetectable” and “HIV-negative” are not the same thing. Having an undetectable viral count does lower the odds of transmitting the virus, but it doesn’t mean it's 0 risk. You shouldn't suggest otherwise. | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in!" For the same reason a lot of guys do I guess, cause they prefer it, their body their choice you don't have to meet | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. Also “undetectable” and “HIV-negative” are not the same thing. Having an undetectable viral count does lower the odds of transmitting the virus, but it doesn’t mean it's 0 risk. You shouldn't suggest otherwise. " Op I do respect you for your honesty and openness but there is no way I'd run even the small risk of contracting something for just a moment of fun. For me safe sex is a must | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. Just to play devils advocate, are you as a HIV positive bisexual person with a boyfriend (whom I'm assuming you have unprotected sex with) advocating 'bareback' with random strangers? " If both people are happy to do so, then yes, totally. | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. Also “undetectable” and “HIV-negative” are not the same thing. Having an undetectable viral count does lower the odds of transmitting the virus, but it doesn’t mean it's 0 risk. You shouldn't suggest otherwise. Op I do respect you for your honesty and openness but there is no way I'd run even the small risk of contracting something for just a moment of fun. For me safe sex is a must" Define what you think "safe sex" is? Do you have unprotected oral sex? Do you swab your partners fingers for the HPV virus? If you do then well done but there is no such thing as safe sex; however there is "safer sex" in which responsible adults take reasonable precautions in not passing or receiving an infection. This subject is one that constantly crops up and is so misinterpreted! | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. Also “undetectable” and “HIV-negative” are not the same thing. Having an undetectable viral count does lower the odds of transmitting the virus, but it doesn’t mean it's 0 risk. You shouldn't suggest otherwise. " I never said HIV Negative and HIV Undetectable were the same thing. However, if you are undetectable and take your meds properly (which I and most sane people do) then there is ZERO risk of transmission. There has been a lot of research out in the last year that suggests this. You have a higher risk of contracting HIV from your supposedly HIV negative partner who you use condoms with than if you had unprotected sex with me. | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. Also “undetectable” and “HIV-negative” are not the same thing. Having an undetectable viral count does lower the odds of transmitting the virus, but it doesn’t mean it's 0 risk. You shouldn't suggest otherwise. Op I do respect you for your honesty and openness but there is no way I'd run even the small risk of contracting something for just a moment of fun. For me safe sex is a must Define what you think "safe sex" is? Do you have unprotected oral sex? Do you swab your partners fingers for the HPV virus? If you do then well done but there is no such thing as safe sex; however there is "safer sex" in which responsible adults take reasonable precautions in not passing or receiving an infection. This subject is one that constantly crops up and is so misinterpreted!" I knew someone was going to throw out the "no such thing as safe sex" argument which is always the final line in the bareback sex thread. No I don't use oral protection nor do I swab test my meets. I do protect myself and get checked regularly. I as you put it employ safer sex | |||
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"...bareback sex is not that risky at all You need to take this up with every sexual health professional in the world. They're clearly misguided. More often than not they're just toeing the line. No health service wants to come under attack for looking like they are promoting unprotected sex. I'm not saying bareback is without risks, clearly there are plenty of things you can get, but they aren't as life threatening as people believe or make out and anything sex related seems to get blown hugely out of proportion. Also “undetectable” and “HIV-negative” are not the same thing. Having an undetectable viral count does lower the odds of transmitting the virus, but it doesn’t mean it's 0 risk. You shouldn't suggest otherwise. I never said HIV Negative and HIV Undetectable were the same thing. However, if you are undetectable and take your meds properly (which I and most sane people do) then there is ZERO risk of transmission. There has been a lot of research out in the last year that suggests this. You have a higher risk of contracting HIV from your supposedly HIV negative partner who you use condoms with than if you had unprotected sex with me. " This just isn't true. It's only 0 risk when the virus is absent. You shouldn't spread misinformation just because it's in your interest. | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. " No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. " You don't know my educational background but I've shown I can clearly comprehend articles better than you, so no need to get shirty. The risk will never be nil. Close to it, possibly, but never removed as you cannot possibly ever be sure of the transmission of something you can't see. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying you've hugely misunderstood the information in a MASSIVELY dangerous way as it's in your interest for it to be 0 risk. | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. You don't know my educational background but I've shown I can clearly comprehend articles better than you, so no need to get shirty. The risk will never be nil. Close to it, possibly, but never removed as you cannot possibly ever be sure of the transmission of something you can't see. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying you've hugely misunderstood the information in a MASSIVELY dangerous way as it's in your interest for it to be 0 risk. " I'm getting shirty because you're saying I'd be willing to infect someone with a chronic disease if it meant I got to have sex, which is extremely offensive. I have not misunderstood the articles. I've linked to the articles because they're what's publicly available and they clearly state that NO TRANSMISSIONS OCCURRED. What then could possibly convince you that a transmission risk is zero? If the answer is nothing then you shouldn't even be in the debate because you refuse to accept even the possibility that you're wrong. | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. You don't know my educational background but I've shown I can clearly comprehend articles better than you, so no need to get shirty. The risk will never be nil. Close to it, possibly, but never removed as you cannot possibly ever be sure of the transmission of something you can't see. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying you've hugely misunderstood the information in a MASSIVELY dangerous way as it's in your interest for it to be 0 risk. I'm getting shirty because you're saying I'd be willing to infect someone with a chronic disease if it meant I got to have sex, which is extremely offensive. I have not misunderstood the articles. I've linked to the articles because they're what's publicly available and they clearly state that NO TRANSMISSIONS OCCURRED. What then could possibly convince you that a transmission risk is zero? If the answer is nothing then you shouldn't even be in the debate because you refuse to accept even the possibility that you're wrong." You're referencing an incomplete study that isn't accepted by half of the medical community. You have safe sex fatigue and it's terrifying to me. | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. You don't know my educational background but I've shown I can clearly comprehend articles better than you, so no need to get shirty. The risk will never be nil. Close to it, possibly, but never removed as you cannot possibly ever be sure of the transmission of something you can't see. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying you've hugely misunderstood the information in a MASSIVELY dangerous way as it's in your interest for it to be 0 risk. I'm getting shirty because you're saying I'd be willing to infect someone with a chronic disease if it meant I got to have sex, which is extremely offensive. I have not misunderstood the articles. I've linked to the articles because they're what's publicly available and they clearly state that NO TRANSMISSIONS OCCURRED. What then could possibly convince you that a transmission risk is zero? If the answer is nothing then you shouldn't even be in the debate because you refuse to accept even the possibility that you're wrong. You're referencing an incomplete study that isn't accepted by half of the medical community. You have safe sex fatigue and it's terrifying to me. " What half of the medical community would that be? No one has given any evidence that I'm aware of to counter the PARTNER study. And it's only incomplete because they want even more evidence. They only published early because the evidence was so overwhelming. What's so terrifying to you about me wanting to be truthful about unprotected sex? I'm not going to try and convince you to sleep with me, or anyone else for that matter. You're at liberty to do whatever/whoever you want. | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. You don't know my educational background but I've shown I can clearly comprehend articles better than you, so no need to get shirty. The risk will never be nil. Close to it, possibly, but never removed as you cannot possibly ever be sure of the transmission of something you can't see. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying you've hugely misunderstood the information in a MASSIVELY dangerous way as it's in your interest for it to be 0 risk. I'm getting shirty because you're saying I'd be willing to infect someone with a chronic disease if it meant I got to have sex, which is extremely offensive. I have not misunderstood the articles. I've linked to the articles because they're what's publicly available and they clearly state that NO TRANSMISSIONS OCCURRED. What then could possibly convince you that a transmission risk is zero? If the answer is nothing then you shouldn't even be in the debate because you refuse to accept even the possibility that you're wrong. You're referencing an incomplete study that isn't accepted by half of the medical community. You have safe sex fatigue and it's terrifying to me. What half of the medical community would that be? No one has given any evidence that I'm aware of to counter the PARTNER study. And it's only incomplete because they want even more evidence. They only published early because the evidence was so overwhelming. What's so terrifying to you about me wanting to be truthful about unprotected sex? I'm not going to try and convince you to sleep with me, or anyone else for that matter. You're at liberty to do whatever/whoever you want." The Australasian groups that don't agree, Dr Berger the HIV specialist who recommends protected sex even in light of this study, the discussions at several conferences. It's controversial and not proven. If you understand statistics so well, you ought to know this. Your point isn't new, it's been around since the late 2000s, however it's still not accepted by the entire medical community for good reason - it hasn't been proven. It's terrifying to me that you'd put people at risk, instead of taking reasonable care. Just because someone else is okay with bareback, doesn't mean you should be. | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. You don't know my educational background but I've shown I can clearly comprehend articles better than you, so no need to get shirty. The risk will never be nil. Close to it, possibly, but never removed as you cannot possibly ever be sure of the transmission of something you can't see. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying you've hugely misunderstood the information in a MASSIVELY dangerous way as it's in your interest for it to be 0 risk. I'm getting shirty because you're saying I'd be willing to infect someone with a chronic disease if it meant I got to have sex, which is extremely offensive. I have not misunderstood the articles. I've linked to the articles because they're what's publicly available and they clearly state that NO TRANSMISSIONS OCCURRED. What then could possibly convince you that a transmission risk is zero? If the answer is nothing then you shouldn't even be in the debate because you refuse to accept even the possibility that you're wrong. You're referencing an incomplete study that isn't accepted by half of the medical community. You have safe sex fatigue and it's terrifying to me. What half of the medical community would that be? No one has given any evidence that I'm aware of to counter the PARTNER study. And it's only incomplete because they want even more evidence. They only published early because the evidence was so overwhelming. What's so terrifying to you about me wanting to be truthful about unprotected sex? I'm not going to try and convince you to sleep with me, or anyone else for that matter. You're at liberty to do whatever/whoever you want." Wasn't there an article of a study last year where they claimed to cure HIV only for it to turn out that no they hadn't? The study is incomplete and until its legitimised verified and agreed then its not fact its a case study with positive results. It doesn't prove anything and it certainly doesn't mean you can run around barebacking people! Would 1 in 40000 still be good? I find your lack of responsibility frightening | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. You don't know my educational background but I've shown I can clearly comprehend articles better than you, so no need to get shirty. The risk will never be nil. Close to it, possibly, but never removed as you cannot possibly ever be sure of the transmission of something you can't see. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying you've hugely misunderstood the information in a MASSIVELY dangerous way as it's in your interest for it to be 0 risk. I'm getting shirty because you're saying I'd be willing to infect someone with a chronic disease if it meant I got to have sex, which is extremely offensive. I have not misunderstood the articles. I've linked to the articles because they're what's publicly available and they clearly state that NO TRANSMISSIONS OCCURRED. What then could possibly convince you that a transmission risk is zero? If the answer is nothing then you shouldn't even be in the debate because you refuse to accept even the possibility that you're wrong." But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way!" Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. | |||
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"I prefer profile that are open about bareback. It is a straight forward easy way to decide not to meet rather then it being awkward on a meet and then finding out wasting a meet. We play soft anyway but should we ever go full it would only be safe and no exceptions. So do not get grumpy about someone asking for bareback, just block and move on." Its not about being 'grumpy' because someone barebacks, its because this person is HIV positive and is actively barebacking and is therefore a risk, or have you simply not been reading the thread and wanted to throw your tuppence in? | |||
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" The Australasian groups that don't agree, Dr Berger the HIV specialist who recommends protected sex even in light of this study, the discussions at several conferences. It's controversial and not proven. If you understand statistics so well, you ought to know this. Your point isn't new, it's been around since the late 2000s, however it's still not accepted by the entire medical community for good reason - it hasn't been proven. It's terrifying to me that you'd put people at risk, instead of taking reasonable care. Just because someone else is okay with bareback, doesn't mean you should be. " You mean the Dr Berger who falsified patient data and research? Who the FDA were looking to ban from being allowed to do research, and whom various Pharma companies dropped from their research? Oh okay, yeah, trust him. Of course it's controversial, just as The Swiss Statement was. Doesn't make it any less scientifically valid. It terrifies me that so many people are so bigoted and irrational no matter what logical and objective information is put in front of them. | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. " Yes I Agree with you in his case, though I do applaud him for having the strength and honesty to declare he is positive. I was also referring to his earlier argument that bareback in general carries no risk and his argument people confused fact with opinion... Something he himself appears to have done! | |||
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" Have you read these links? "When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, presenter Alison Rodger said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." " This is not 0 and does not mean the risk is removed, it means it is close to 0. You are still putting people at risk and you have a responsibility to take care of others, just like everyone else. You need to stop saying the risk is nil. No, it means that in all likelihood the risk is zero, just like they said. There is no way to prove it is zero in the same way there's no way to prove that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't gangbanging the Tooth Fairy right now. But all the evidence points towards it being zero. I am not putting anyone at risk. I have a very good understanding of statistical and mathematical rigour; something you clearly do not. So please stop implying that I'm lying just to get a fuck. I have no expectations that anyone on here does want to meet me as I soon realised people are far too ignorant of HIV for that to happen any time soon. You don't know my educational background but I've shown I can clearly comprehend articles better than you, so no need to get shirty. The risk will never be nil. Close to it, possibly, but never removed as you cannot possibly ever be sure of the transmission of something you can't see. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying you've hugely misunderstood the information in a MASSIVELY dangerous way as it's in your interest for it to be 0 risk. I'm getting shirty because you're saying I'd be willing to infect someone with a chronic disease if it meant I got to have sex, which is extremely offensive. I have not misunderstood the articles. I've linked to the articles because they're what's publicly available and they clearly state that NO TRANSMISSIONS OCCURRED. What then could possibly convince you that a transmission risk is zero? If the answer is nothing then you shouldn't even be in the debate because you refuse to accept even the possibility that you're wrong. But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way!" There are risks to bareback - none of those risks include the transmission of HIV from an undetectable person. People can of course get other STIs, and if they think there partner is HIV negative there's a chance they aren't. What the last few posts have been about are the transmission risk of HIV from an undetectable person on meds - which is zero. | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. " How many studies do you know of that have 40,000 data points are are rejected as invalid? | |||
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" The Australasian groups that don't agree, Dr Berger the HIV specialist who recommends protected sex even in light of this study, the discussions at several conferences. It's controversial and not proven. If you understand statistics so well, you ought to know this. Your point isn't new, it's been around since the late 2000s, however it's still not accepted by the entire medical community for good reason - it hasn't been proven. It's terrifying to me that you'd put people at risk, instead of taking reasonable care. Just because someone else is okay with bareback, doesn't mean you should be. You mean the Dr Berger who falsified patient data and research? Who the FDA were looking to ban from being allowed to do research, and whom various Pharma companies dropped from their research? Oh okay, yeah, trust him. Of course it's controversial, just as The Swiss Statement was. Doesn't make it any less scientifically valid. It terrifies me that so many people are so bigoted and irrational no matter what logical and objective information is put in front of them." Weird, as Dr Berger also validated your study but said it's best to continue using protection. Maybe that's discrediting to you too. Trust me, I'm not bigoted against HIV+ people at all. I do think you're massively ill educated and that you're putting people at risk needlessly. However, I guess it's good you're open and honest and about taking no interest in the welfare of others when it comes to your own pleasure. | |||
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"I prefer profile that are open about bareback. It is a straight forward easy way to decide not to meet rather then it being awkward on a meet and then finding out wasting a meet. We play soft anyway but should we ever go full it would only be safe and no exceptions. So do not get grumpy about someone asking for bareback, just block and move on. Its not about being 'grumpy' because someone barebacks, its because this person is HIV positive and is actively barebacking and is therefore a risk, or have you simply not been reading the thread and wanted to throw your tuppence in?" I am not "a risk" - in fact the probability of someone catching HIV from barebacking with me is less than the chance they have of catching HIV from you if you use condoms. So don't insult me. | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. How many studies do you know of that have 40,000 data points are are rejected as invalid?" The MMR-Autism link studies is one example. | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. How many studies do you know of that have 40,000 data points are are rejected as invalid? The MMR-Autism link studies is one example. " Stop reading the Daily Mail. Showing your true stupidity there. | |||
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" The Australasian groups that don't agree, Dr Berger the HIV specialist who recommends protected sex even in light of this study, the discussions at several conferences. It's controversial and not proven. If you understand statistics so well, you ought to know this. Your point isn't new, it's been around since the late 2000s, however it's still not accepted by the entire medical community for good reason - it hasn't been proven. It's terrifying to me that you'd put people at risk, instead of taking reasonable care. Just because someone else is okay with bareback, doesn't mean you should be. You mean the Dr Berger who falsified patient data and research? Who the FDA were looking to ban from being allowed to do research, and whom various Pharma companies dropped from their research? Oh okay, yeah, trust him. Of course it's controversial, just as The Swiss Statement was. Doesn't make it any less scientifically valid. It terrifies me that so many people are so bigoted and irrational no matter what logical and objective information is put in front of them." I can see that the research suggests that in cases such as yourself the risk is lower than most may believe and that know of education can only be a good thing if it means HIV awareness and education is raised... But it's not a definitive enough argument to convince me there is no risk involved at all. That doesn't make me a bigot. It might means I am more risk adverse and my view is different to yours. I believe in informed choices,and making the best for me. Each one of us may do different but it's dangerous to suggest you speak absolute truth. | |||
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"I prefer profile that are open about bareback. It is a straight forward easy way to decide not to meet rather then it being awkward on a meet and then finding out wasting a meet. We play soft anyway but should we ever go full it would only be safe and no exceptions. So do not get grumpy about someone asking for bareback, just block and move on. Its not about being 'grumpy' because someone barebacks, its because this person is HIV positive and is actively barebacking and is therefore a risk, or have you simply not been reading the thread and wanted to throw your tuppence in? I am not "a risk" - in fact the probability of someone catching HIV from barebacking with me is less than the chance they have of catching HIV from you if you use condoms. So don't insult me." Having bareback sex with you is a risk. You should know that. I don't think you'd disclose it on your profile if you truly believed people didn't need to know. Anyway, I'm not saying you're a bad person because you're positive, I'm saying it's scary that you don't always practice safe sex knowing that you're positive. There's a difference. | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. How many studies do you know of that have 40,000 data points are are rejected as invalid? The MMR-Autism link studies is one example. Stop reading the Daily Mail. Showing your true stupidity there. " What are you even on about? The studies were declared invalid. Perhaps you should try and make your point without swearing or throwing insults, and I'd take you more seriously. | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. How many studies do you know of that have 40,000 data points are are rejected as invalid? The MMR-Autism link studies is one example. Stop reading the Daily Mail. Showing your true stupidity there. " There's no need to get abusive, the MMR autism link still affects millions of people through misinformation and blind belief. The study was discredited, eventually, to the detriment of many, can you be so blind in your certainty that you would potentially put people at risk? | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. How many studies do you know of that have 40,000 data points are are rejected as invalid? The MMR-Autism link studies is one example. Stop reading the Daily Mail. Showing your true stupidity there. There's no need to get abusive, the MMR autism link still affects millions of people through misinformation and blind belief. The study was discredited, eventually, to the detriment of many, can you be so blind in your certainty that you would potentially put people at risk?" I wasn't supporting the MMR-autism link, however the study was thrown out. Even Merck dismissed it, despite their level of involvement. | |||
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"Its like religion, the debate can go on for ages lol " | |||
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"But you yourself admitted earlier that there are in fact some risks to bareback... So are you now saying that there's no risk in your case but may well be with others that bareback... In which case you are once again touting something as fact when in actual fact most studies, and statistics, can be either presented in such a way as to give a particular result or interpreted in a particular way! Plus HIV is far too big of a risk to take when it's just a hunch. There needs to be definitive proof with substantial evidence before you can promote unprotected sex with HIV+ partners. How many studies do you know of that have 40,000 data points are are rejected as invalid? The MMR-Autism link studies is one example. Stop reading the Daily Mail. Showing your true stupidity there. There's no need to get abusive, the MMR autism link still affects millions of people through misinformation and blind belief. The study was discredited, eventually, to the detriment of many, can you be so blind in your certainty that you would potentially put people at risk? I wasn't supporting the MMR-autism link, however the study was thrown out. Even Merck dismissed it, despite their level of involvement. " No neither was I, I was merely saying that this is the kind of damage that a study can do if proved invalid or flawed | |||
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"I wish I never started this " Lol well im enjoying the debate....it's quiet educational | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc" Nicely put.... Believe we all got a little blinkered along the way x | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc" The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc" You discuss risk so much better than I'd been trying to! | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. " really fed up of this garbage now if we listened to you we wouldn't fly in case the plane crashes we wouldn't cross the road in case we get knocked down, as has been said we know the risks, were all adults we can make our own minds up, and for the record pack up smoking it's bad for you and yes it can kill you ! | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. really fed up of this garbage now if we listened to you we wouldn't fly in case the plane crashes we wouldn't cross the road in case we get knocked down, as has been said we know the risks, were all adults we can make our own minds up, and for the record pack up smoking it's bad for you and yes it can kill you ! " I never said you can't make your own minds up, but for someone on here to say bareback sex with a positive person is risk free is careless and dangerous. You will obviously make your own choices, but people shouldn't spread misinformation. You've possibly misinterpreted my post as just condemning bareback sex in its entirety. Perhaps you should have read my previous posts before jumping the gun and having a go. | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. " And the risk of meeting an HIV infected person is really extremely low and the chance of contracting HIV from a one off sexual with an infected person is also very low and only increases with the exchange of body fluids, blood, semen. That's always assuming that the guy also cums in the lady and there is the possibility of cross-contamination. As a smoker you have a much higher chance of cancer but that doesn't appear to be on your agenda, only moralising at others. And you promote your risk of cancer due to your personal beliefs. | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. And the risk of meeting an HIV infected person is really extremely low and the chance of contracting HIV from a one off sexual with an infected person is also very low and only increases with the exchange of body fluids, blood, semen. That's always assuming that the guy also cums in the lady and there is the possibility of cross-contamination. As a smoker you have a much higher chance of cancer but that doesn't appear to be on your agenda, only moralising at others. " You must've missed the HIV+ person saying bareback sex was entirely risk free. The difference with my smoking is I don't go round saying "It's risk free, there's definitely no chance you'll get cancer", plus it's something that only affects my health. It's not really comparable. | |||
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"It estimated the risk of HIV transmission through receptive vaginal sex (receiving the penis in the vagina) to be 0.08% (equivalent to 1 transmission per 1,250 exposures). However look at the odds of dying when engaged in the following pastimes. Hang Gliding 1 in 560 Boxing 1 in 2,200 Grand prix Racing 1 in 100 Motor Bike Racing 1 in 1000 Base Jumping 1 in 60 Mountain Climbing 1 in 1,750 " Damn, we were planning on doing all of these this weekend! | |||
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"By the way, many women do bareback even tho stated safe play on their profile." Lol, call it a safe bareback play | |||
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"It estimated the risk of HIV transmission through receptive vaginal sex (receiving the penis in the vagina) to be 0.08% (equivalent to 1 transmission per 1,250 exposures). However look at the odds of dying when engaged in the following pastimes. Hang Gliding 1 in 560 Boxing 1 in 2,200 Grand prix Racing 1 in 100 Motor Bike Racing 1 in 1000 Base Jumping 1 in 60 Mountain Climbing 1 in 1,750 " Figures look a bit surprising. They would suggest roughly one death every four F1 Grand prix. There aren't. They would suggest about 8 people die climbing UK mountains every weekend. There aren't. | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. And the risk of meeting an HIV infected person is really extremely low and the chance of contracting HIV from a one off sexual with an infected person is also very low and only increases with the exchange of body fluids, blood, semen. That's always assuming that the guy also cums in the lady and there is the possibility of cross-contamination. As a smoker you have a much higher chance of cancer but that doesn't appear to be on your agenda, only moralising at others. You must've missed the HIV+ person saying bareback sex was entirely risk free. The difference with my smoking is I don't go round saying "It's risk free, there's definitely no chance you'll get cancer", plus it's something that only affects my health. It's not really comparable. " It is really comparable or perhaps you have never heard of passive smoking. so it isn't just your health it affects and the impact of you smoking and contracting cancer affects your family and friends too, unless you are entirely alone? Added to that, chances of contracting cancer, emphysemia, heart disease or some other honking illness, from being a regular smoker, are very high so your disregard as to how it only affects you is pretty tame and selfish. Added to that, your ignorance is gonna cost me indirectly as my taxes have to go to waste medicine on what I perceive as a stupid reason to be ill. That money should be better spent on people who are ill through no fault of their own-perhaps a child who has contracted a cancer through passive smoking from a smoke-filled household. Yes there are risks in unprotected sex, I don't say there aren't, but I'm neither advocating or condemning it. UK population, 63 million, 110,000 living with HIV so 0.17% of the population, death rate of less than 10%, whereas in 2011 alone, over 331,000 people, or 0.52% of the UK, were diagnosed with cancer (Figures from UK cancer research) of whom over 49,650 was Lung Cancer. In the same year, over 161,000 deaths from cancer of which over 35,420 were caused by Lung Cancer. So fair to say that more deaths caused by smoking than unprotected sex. Added to that, statistically, 1 in 17 men who have sex with men, or about 5.88%, and black Africans, who make up 1.8% of the population but 36% of the HIV numbers, are the two high risk categories so statistically, if you can avoid these two groups, unprotected sex becomes infinitely safer. That's your statistics, you carry out a much more dangerous past time yet moralise at others when the figures speak for themselves. | |||
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"It estimated the risk of HIV transmission through receptive vaginal sex (receiving the penis in the vagina) to be 0.08% (equivalent to 1 transmission per 1,250 exposures). However look at the odds of dying when engaged in the following pastimes. Hang Gliding 1 in 560 Boxing 1 in 2,200 Grand prix Racing 1 in 100 Motor Bike Racing 1 in 1000 Base Jumping 1 in 60 Mountain Climbing 1 in 1,750 Figures look a bit surprising. They would suggest roughly one death every four F1 Grand prix. There aren't. They would suggest about 8 people die climbing UK mountains every weekend. There aren't. " No because odds don't work like that they are not cumulative each time someone takes part in such an event they are facing the same chance of dying. It does not mean if for instance you go base jumping and do 59 jumps you will die or your 60th you could do 10,000 jumps safely or you could do 1 and die. | |||
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"It estimated the risk of HIV transmission through receptive vaginal sex (receiving the penis in the vagina) to be 0.08% (equivalent to 1 transmission per 1,250 exposures). However look at the odds of dying when engaged in the following pastimes. Hang Gliding 1 in 560 Boxing 1 in 2,200 Grand prix Racing 1 in 100 Motor Bike Racing 1 in 1000 Base Jumping 1 in 60 Mountain Climbing 1 in 1,750 Figures look a bit surprising. They would suggest roughly one death every four F1 Grand prix. There aren't. They would suggest about 8 people die climbing UK mountains every weekend. There aren't. No because odds don't work like that they are not cumulative each time someone takes part in such an event they are facing the same chance of dying. It does not mean if for instance you go base jumping and do 59 jumps you will die or your 60th you could do 10,000 jumps safely or you could do 1 and die. " Probabities work exactly the way I used them. If the odds of dying from climbing are 1000 to 1, it's likely that if 1000 people go climbing, then I person is likely to die. It's possible all 1000 will die, it's possible none will die but 1 is most likely. Basically the probabities quoted are a crock of shit. | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. And the risk of meeting an HIV infected person is really extremely low and the chance of contracting HIV from a one off sexual with an infected person is also very low and only increases with the exchange of body fluids, blood, semen. That's always assuming that the guy also cums in the lady and there is the possibility of cross-contamination. As a smoker you have a much higher chance of cancer but that doesn't appear to be on your agenda, only moralising at others. You must've missed the HIV+ person saying bareback sex was entirely risk free. The difference with my smoking is I don't go round saying "It's risk free, there's definitely no chance you'll get cancer", plus it's something that only affects my health. It's not really comparable. It is really comparable or perhaps you have never heard of passive smoking. so it isn't just your health it affects and the impact of you smoking and contracting cancer affects your family and friends too, unless you are entirely alone? Added to that, chances of contracting cancer, emphysemia, heart disease or some other honking illness, from being a regular smoker, are very high so your disregard as to how it only affects you is pretty tame and selfish. Added to that, your ignorance is gonna cost me indirectly as my taxes have to go to waste medicine on what I perceive as a stupid reason to be ill. That money should be better spent on people who are ill through no fault of their own-perhaps a child who has contracted a cancer through passive smoking from a smoke-filled household. Yes there are risks in unprotected sex, I don't say there aren't, but I'm neither advocating or condemning it. UK population, 63 million, 110,000 living with HIV so 0.17% of the population, death rate of less than 10%, whereas in 2011 alone, over 331,000 people, or 0.52% of the UK, were diagnosed with cancer (Figures from UK cancer research) of whom over 49,650 was Lung Cancer. In the same year, over 161,000 deaths from cancer of which over 35,420 were caused by Lung Cancer. So fair to say that more deaths caused by smoking than unprotected sex. Added to that, statistically, 1 in 17 men who have sex with men, or about 5.88%, and black Africans, who make up 1.8% of the population but 36% of the HIV numbers, are the two high risk categories so statistically, if you can avoid these two groups, unprotected sex becomes infinitely safer. That's your statistics, you carry out a much more dangerous past time yet moralise at others when the figures speak for themselves. " You've missed my point and wasted your time entirely. Someone with HIV publicly stated on this thread that bareback sex with positive people is risk free, my issue is with that. It's a lie and dangerous. Do you see how that is not comparable to my smoking? Also, it's not moralising to say bareback sex with a positive person is risky - it's stating the obvious. | |||
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"O no not again repeating yourself time and time again does not help your views." ? Are you seriously supporting the belief that bareback sex with an HIV+ is safe and risk free? Perhaps contribute properly instead of just whinging, so far you haven't said anything that's relevant. | |||
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"I wish I never started this " Yeah. Well done! The thing I find truly scary is that everyone talks about safe sex but no one really talks about getting tested as well. You'd think a condom was a bulletproof vest with the way some people carry on. Plus, safe sex also means dental dams when performing oral but I doubt many do that. Honestly, if this all too much for you, then you should strongly reconsider this lifestyle as we are all high risk due to the number of partners we entertain whether practising safe sex or not. | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. And the risk of meeting an HIV infected person is really extremely low and the chance of contracting HIV from a one off sexual with an infected person is also very low and only increases with the exchange of body fluids, blood, semen. That's always assuming that the guy also cums in the lady and there is the possibility of cross-contamination. As a smoker you have a much higher chance of cancer but that doesn't appear to be on your agenda, only moralising at others. You must've missed the HIV+ person saying bareback sex was entirely risk free. The difference with my smoking is I don't go round saying "It's risk free, there's definitely no chance you'll get cancer", plus it's something that only affects my health. It's not really comparable. It is really comparable or perhaps you have never heard of passive smoking. so it isn't just your health it affects and the impact of you smoking and contracting cancer affects your family and friends too, unless you are entirely alone? Added to that, chances of contracting cancer, emphysemia, heart disease or some other honking illness, from being a regular smoker, are very high so your disregard as to how it only affects you is pretty tame and selfish. Added to that, your ignorance is gonna cost me indirectly as my taxes have to go to waste medicine on what I perceive as a stupid reason to be ill. That money should be better spent on people who are ill through no fault of their own-perhaps a child who has contracted a cancer through passive smoking from a smoke-filled household. Yes there are risks in unprotected sex, I don't say there aren't, but I'm neither advocating or condemning it. UK population, 63 million, 110,000 living with HIV so 0.17% of the population, death rate of less than 10%, whereas in 2011 alone, over 331,000 people, or 0.52% of the UK, were diagnosed with cancer (Figures from UK cancer research) of whom over 49,650 was Lung Cancer. In the same year, over 161,000 deaths from cancer of which over 35,420 were caused by Lung Cancer. So fair to say that more deaths caused by smoking than unprotected sex. Added to that, statistically, 1 in 17 men who have sex with men, or about 5.88%, and black Africans, who make up 1.8% of the population but 36% of the HIV numbers, are the two high risk categories so statistically, if you can avoid these two groups, unprotected sex becomes infinitely safer. That's your statistics, you carry out a much more dangerous past time yet moralise at others when the figures speak for themselves. You've missed my point and wasted your time entirely. Someone with HIV publicly stated on this thread that bareback sex with positive people is risk free, my issue is with that. It's a lie and dangerous. Do you see how that is not comparable to my smoking? Also, it's not moralising to say bareback sex with a positive person is risky - it's stating the obvious. " You mean that things have been said which you neither like or agree with as they don't comply with your own view of the world in order to justify your own actions. Do you really believe someone who is HIV+ is going to admit it on here, come on and get real. Also, although I wouldn't recommend it, statistically the chance of contracting HIV from a one off exposure is extremely low(statistically below 1%), this of course changes with bleeding, exposed cuts and the exchange of fluids. Also people in glass houses throwing stones is moralising. You exhibit higher risk behaviour to your health and the health if those around you-stats show that. In 2012 the figures for new HIV cases was 6000 whereas Lung Cancer was over 43,000 in 2011. You don't need consenting direct contact to affect the health of others, those choosing to bareback do(unless it's non consenting of course but then that's criminal). | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. And the risk of meeting an HIV infected person is really extremely low and the chance of contracting HIV from a one off sexual with an infected person is also very low and only increases with the exchange of body fluids, blood, semen. That's always assuming that the guy also cums in the lady and there is the possibility of cross-contamination. As a smoker you have a much higher chance of cancer but that doesn't appear to be on your agenda, only moralising at others. You must've missed the HIV+ person saying bareback sex was entirely risk free. The difference with my smoking is I don't go round saying "It's risk free, there's definitely no chance you'll get cancer", plus it's something that only affects my health. It's not really comparable. It is really comparable or perhaps you have never heard of passive smoking. so it isn't just your health it affects and the impact of you smoking and contracting cancer affects your family and friends too, unless you are entirely alone? Added to that, chances of contracting cancer, emphysemia, heart disease or some other honking illness, from being a regular smoker, are very high so your disregard as to how it only affects you is pretty tame and selfish. Added to that, your ignorance is gonna cost me indirectly as my taxes have to go to waste medicine on what I perceive as a stupid reason to be ill. That money should be better spent on people who are ill through no fault of their own-perhaps a child who has contracted a cancer through passive smoking from a smoke-filled household. Yes there are risks in unprotected sex, I don't say there aren't, but I'm neither advocating or condemning it. UK population, 63 million, 110,000 living with HIV so 0.17% of the population, death rate of less than 10%, whereas in 2011 alone, over 331,000 people, or 0.52% of the UK, were diagnosed with cancer (Figures from UK cancer research) of whom over 49,650 was Lung Cancer. In the same year, over 161,000 deaths from cancer of which over 35,420 were caused by Lung Cancer. So fair to say that more deaths caused by smoking than unprotected sex. Added to that, statistically, 1 in 17 men who have sex with men, or about 5.88%, and black Africans, who make up 1.8% of the population but 36% of the HIV numbers, are the two high risk categories so statistically, if you can avoid these two groups, unprotected sex becomes infinitely safer. That's your statistics, you carry out a much more dangerous past time yet moralise at others when the figures speak for themselves. You've missed my point and wasted your time entirely. Someone with HIV publicly stated on this thread that bareback sex with positive people is risk free, my issue is with that. It's a lie and dangerous. Do you see how that is not comparable to my smoking? Also, it's not moralising to say bareback sex with a positive person is risky - it's stating the obvious. You mean that things have been said which you neither like or agree with as they don't comply with your own view of the world in order to justify your own actions. Do you really believe someone who is HIV+ is going to admit it on here, come on and get real. Also, although I wouldn't recommend it, statistically the chance of contracting HIV from a one off exposure is extremely low(statistically below 1%), this of course changes with bleeding, exposed cuts and the exchange of fluids. Also people in glass houses throwing stones is moralising. You exhibit higher risk behaviour to your health and the health if those around you-stats show that. In 2012 the figures for new HIV cases was 6000 whereas Lung Cancer was over 43,000 in 2011. You don't need consenting direct contact to affect the health of others, those choosing to bareback do(unless it's non consenting of course but then that's criminal). " An HIV+ person on this thread did say it was completely safe to have bareback sex. Perhaps read the entire thread? | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. And the risk of meeting an HIV infected person is really extremely low and the chance of contracting HIV from a one off sexual with an infected person is also very low and only increases with the exchange of body fluids, blood, semen. That's always assuming that the guy also cums in the lady and there is the possibility of cross-contamination. As a smoker you have a much higher chance of cancer but that doesn't appear to be on your agenda, only moralising at others. You must've missed the HIV+ person saying bareback sex was entirely risk free. The difference with my smoking is I don't go round saying "It's risk free, there's definitely no chance you'll get cancer", plus it's something that only affects my health. It's not really comparable. It is really comparable or perhaps you have never heard of passive smoking. so it isn't just your health it affects and the impact of you smoking and contracting cancer affects your family and friends too, unless you are entirely alone? Added to that, chances of contracting cancer, emphysemia, heart disease or some other honking illness, from being a regular smoker, are very high so your disregard as to how it only affects you is pretty tame and selfish. Added to that, your ignorance is gonna cost me indirectly as my taxes have to go to waste medicine on what I perceive as a stupid reason to be ill. That money should be better spent on people who are ill through no fault of their own-perhaps a child who has contracted a cancer through passive smoking from a smoke-filled household. Yes there are risks in unprotected sex, I don't say there aren't, but I'm neither advocating or condemning it. UK population, 63 million, 110,000 living with HIV so 0.17% of the population, death rate of less than 10%, whereas in 2011 alone, over 331,000 people, or 0.52% of the UK, were diagnosed with cancer (Figures from UK cancer research) of whom over 49,650 was Lung Cancer. In the same year, over 161,000 deaths from cancer of which over 35,420 were caused by Lung Cancer. So fair to say that more deaths caused by smoking than unprotected sex. Added to that, statistically, 1 in 17 men who have sex with men, or about 5.88%, and black Africans, who make up 1.8% of the population but 36% of the HIV numbers, are the two high risk categories so statistically, if you can avoid these two groups, unprotected sex becomes infinitely safer. That's your statistics, you carry out a much more dangerous past time yet moralise at others when the figures speak for themselves. You've missed my point and wasted your time entirely. Someone with HIV publicly stated on this thread that bareback sex with positive people is risk free, my issue is with that. It's a lie and dangerous. Do you see how that is not comparable to my smoking? Also, it's not moralising to say bareback sex with a positive person is risky - it's stating the obvious. You mean that things have been said which you neither like or agree with as they don't comply with your own view of the world in order to justify your own actions. Do you really believe someone who is HIV+ is going to admit it on here, come on and get real. Also, although I wouldn't recommend it, statistically the chance of contracting HIV from a one off exposure is extremely low(statistically below 1%), this of course changes with bleeding, exposed cuts and the exchange of fluids. Also people in glass houses throwing stones is moralising. You exhibit higher risk behaviour to your health and the health if those around you-stats show that. In 2012 the figures for new HIV cases was 6000 whereas Lung Cancer was over 43,000 in 2011. You don't need consenting direct contact to affect the health of others, those choosing to bareback do(unless it's non consenting of course but then that's criminal). " Not everyone in UK is at risk of contracting HIV. About 60 million are at risk of lung cancer | |||
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"I wish I never started this Yeah. Well done! The thing I find truly scary is that everyone talks about safe sex but no one really talks about getting tested as well. You'd think a condom was a bulletproof vest with the way some people carry on. Plus, safe sex also means dental dams when performing oral but I doubt many do that. Honestly, if this all too much for you, then you should strongly reconsider this lifestyle as we are all high risk due to the number of partners we entertain whether practising safe sex or not." absolutely! if you're that worried get out of the game! we like safeish sex! lol | |||
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"O no not again repeating yourself time and time again does not help your views. ? Are you seriously supporting the belief that bareback sex with an HIV+ is safe and risk free? Perhaps contribute properly instead of just whinging, so far you haven't said anything that's relevant. " The question is are you seriously supporting the belief that any one wants to read your boring contributions again and again and again . Time to move along you have made your views clear about what you personally think of the guy who started this thread. Your far to personal in your attacks on him, he on the other hand has been honest and open from the start. | |||
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"O no not again repeating yourself time and time again does not help your views. ? Are you seriously supporting the belief that bareback sex with an HIV+ is safe and risk free? Perhaps contribute properly instead of just whinging, so far you haven't said anything that's relevant. The question is are you seriously supporting the belief that any one wants to read your boring contributions again and again and again . Time to move along you have made your views clear about what you personally think of the guy who started this thread. Your far to personal in your attacks on him, he on the other hand has been honest and open from the start. " No need to be rude, however I haven't even addressed the OP so I don't really see your point (again). You ought to read my posts more thoroughly to understand before commenting on them. | |||
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"Anyway, does anyone know the best treatment for a varucca?" Chop your foot off and you'll neVer get a varucca again! | |||
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"Anyway, does anyone know the best treatment for a varucca? Chop your foot off and you'll neVer get a varucca again!" Genius! You must be a health professional | |||
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"Anyway, does anyone know the best treatment for a varucca? Chop your foot off and you'll neVer get a varucca again! Genius! You must be a health professional " Well I'm healthy and I'm a professional! | |||
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"Scenerio: You're in ans orgy where safe sex is practiced, you change partners and you would (rightly so) change condoms. Now be honest, how many would either remember to wash your hands before playing with another lady? Dave " Thats why I dont choose to partake in orgies of mixed sex. A group of straight guys that all wear condoms are only playing with the one woman at that time, assumimg they have showered and washed their hands beforehand. | |||
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"The key here, as someone with a statistics qualification and a self confessed geek in this regard is the understanding of risk Knowing you are taking a risk is fine if you understand both you are taking a risk and the real level of that risk rather than the perception Some people perceive risks as way bigger than they are, for example some of the posters in this thread perceive hiv as being far more prevalent and contagious than all the medical evidence suggests, a example of exaggerated risk Some people believe an activity, for example taking drug x or y, is safe, even when the data suggests a risk of a certain magnitude, an example of underplaying risk The correct thing is realise is that being alive is risky, even staying in bed all day under the bedclothes isn't risk free (immobility raises risks of DVT!), just understand the level of risk you're happy with and don't believe others who may over or underplay a risk for their own moral or political or social views etc The difference here is accepting the risk and denying there's a risk at all. It's dangerous to tell people there's 0 risk as some people will believe it, and consider the behaviour risk free. Things like HIV are life changing in a terrible way, and it's irresponsible to promote unprotected sex just down to personal beliefs. And the risk of meeting an HIV infected person is really extremely low and the chance of contracting HIV from a one off sexual with an infected person is also very low and only increases with the exchange of body fluids, blood, semen. That's always assuming that the guy also cums in the lady and there is the possibility of cross-contamination. As a smoker you have a much higher chance of cancer but that doesn't appear to be on your agenda, only moralising at others. You must've missed the HIV+ person saying bareback sex was entirely risk free. The difference with my smoking is I don't go round saying "It's risk free, there's definitely no chance you'll get cancer", plus it's something that only affects my health. It's not really comparable. It is really comparable or perhaps you have never heard of passive smoking. so it isn't just your health it affects and the impact of you smoking and contracting cancer affects your family and friends too, unless you are entirely alone? Added to that, chances of contracting cancer, emphysemia, heart disease or some other honking illness, from being a regular smoker, are very high so your disregard as to how it only affects you is pretty tame and selfish. Added to that, your ignorance is gonna cost me indirectly as my taxes have to go to waste medicine on what I perceive as a stupid reason to be ill. That money should be better spent on people who are ill through no fault of their own-perhaps a child who has contracted a cancer through passive smoking from a smoke-filled household. Yes there are risks in unprotected sex, I don't say there aren't, but I'm neither advocating or condemning it. UK population, 63 million, 110,000 living with HIV so 0.17% of the population, death rate of less than 10%, whereas in 2011 alone, over 331,000 people, or 0.52% of the UK, were diagnosed with cancer (Figures from UK cancer research) of whom over 49,650 was Lung Cancer. In the same year, over 161,000 deaths from cancer of which over 35,420 were caused by Lung Cancer. So fair to say that more deaths caused by smoking than unprotected sex. Added to that, statistically, 1 in 17 men who have sex with men, or about 5.88%, and black Africans, who make up 1.8% of the population but 36% of the HIV numbers, are the two high risk categories so statistically, if you can avoid these two groups, unprotected sex becomes infinitely safer. That's your statistics, you carry out a much more dangerous past time yet moralise at others when the figures speak for themselves. You've missed my point and wasted your time entirely. Someone with HIV publicly stated on this thread that bareback sex with positive people is risk free, my issue is with that. It's a lie and dangerous. Do you see how that is not comparable to my smoking? Also, it's not moralising to say bareback sex with a positive person is risky - it's stating the obvious. You mean that things have been said which you neither like or agree with as they don't comply with your own view of the world in order to justify your own actions. Do you really believe someone who is HIV+ is going to admit it on here, come on and get real. Also, although I wouldn't recommend it, statistically the chance of contracting HIV from a one off exposure is extremely low(statistically below 1%), this of course changes with bleeding, exposed cuts and the exchange of fluids. Also people in glass houses throwing stones is moralising. You exhibit higher risk behaviour to your health and the health if those around you-stats show that. In 2012 the figures for new HIV cases was 6000 whereas Lung Cancer was over 43,000 in 2011. You don't need consenting direct contact to affect the health of others, those choosing to bareback do(unless it's non consenting of course but then that's criminal). An HIV+ person on this thread did say it was completely safe to have bareback sex. Perhaps read the entire thread? " Reading the entire thread is irrelevant and perhaps he had been told that it is safe, due to the meds he is on, by the hospital? There have been drugs used in combatting HIV that have left the carrier with no signs that they are carrying the virus. Were you aware of that? Ergo they cannot pass it on. The only reason why they didn't declare them clear was because the virus is pretty smart and could have been hiding in the brain, I couldn't quote the study and I'm not wasting time looking for it but a guy on here is declaring he is HIV+, fair play and respect to him, and that it is entirely safe to have unprotected sex with him. He may be entirely correct thus adding new fuel to the fire-it is safe to have unprotected sex with an HIV+ person so long as they're on medication. Added to that there are(apparently) only around 22,000 people in the UK who are HIV+ and are unaware of that fact so about .035%-so about 35 per 100,000 of the population. Far better odds than you have of contracting a fatal illness. | |||
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"Reading the entire thread is irrelevant and perhaps he had been told that it is safe, due to the meds he is on, by the hospital? There have been drugs used in combatting HIV that have left the carrier with no signs that they are carrying the virus. Were you aware of that? Ergo they cannot pass it on. The only reason why they didn't declare them clear was because the virus is pretty smart and could have been hiding in the brain, I couldn't quote the study and I'm not wasting time looking for it but a guy on here is declaring he is HIV+, fair play and respect to him, and that it is entirely safe to have unprotected sex with him. He may be entirely correct thus adding new fuel to the fire-it is safe to have unprotected sex with an HIV+ person so long as they're on medication. Added to that there are(apparently) only around 22,000 people in the UK who are HIV+ and are unaware of that fact so about .035%-so about 35 per 100,000 of the population. Far better odds than you have of contracting a fatal illness." In that case, I can't continue to discuss if you choose ignore all previous points as you're rehashing old ground in a dumb way. | |||
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"I love it I had it with a guy last night I met on fab guys I'm seeing him tomo too and doing it again He is clean and I am too Most women Iv met wanted it too I prefere it but only do it with men if I know they are clean" How do you tell if they are clean? | |||
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"Sekz - the undoubted treatment you need is to sit just as you are in your 3rd photo and let me lick your pussy for about an hour - it's very good for the old varucca - honest !" Hey, that's exactly what my GP said! | |||
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"I love it I had it with a guy last night I met on fab guys I'm seeing him tomo too and doing it again He is clean and I am too Most women Iv met wanted it too I prefere it but only do it with men if I know they are clean How do you tell if they are clean?" Well I'd have to get to know them first Wouldn't do it on the first meet no way Iv only done it with 3 men But always been after a lot of getting to know each other Iv never had a one night stand un protected Apart from 2 women years ago | |||
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"it always amazes me how stressed out some people get about other peoples sex lives " Yea properly bad for it on here So many double standards | |||
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"Each to their own. Two things I have learnt. Honesty is the best policy, as I would much rather make an informed choice. Secondly, who to avoid on this thread. My personal preference is condoms. I play with people who use condoms. I will not bareback anyone and would not play with people who routinely bareback people other than their parner. " do you practice safe oral sex? | |||
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"Reading the entire thread is irrelevant and perhaps he had been told that it is safe, due to the meds he is on, by the hospital? There have been drugs used in combatting HIV that have left the carrier with no signs that they are carrying the virus. Were you aware of that? Ergo they cannot pass it on. The only reason why they didn't declare them clear was because the virus is pretty smart and could have been hiding in the brain, I couldn't quote the study and I'm not wasting time looking for it but a guy on here is declaring he is HIV+, fair play and respect to him, and that it is entirely safe to have unprotected sex with him. He may be entirely correct thus adding new fuel to the fire-it is safe to have unprotected sex with an HIV+ person so long as they're on medication. Added to that there are(apparently) only around 22,000 people in the UK who are HIV+ and are unaware of that fact so about .035%-so about 35 per 100,000 of the population. Far better odds than you have of contracting a fatal illness. In that case, I can't continue to discuss if you choose ignore all previous points as you're rehashing old ground in a dumb way. " And your just punting along in the same old ignorant way you have been doing all along, with no knowledge of what you're really talking about, just working off your reaction. You actually have nothing worth saying but you're saying it too loud. And been young and female, you MUST have the last word | |||
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"I can't believe what I am reading!!!! 'Safe' bareback play with HIV+ swingers?!?!?! I will pray for the parties concerned " | |||
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"I alway play safe. But why do so many girls/ women always ask for bareback. It does my head in! I always wear my contact lenses " | |||
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"About half the men I've had sex with since I've been swinging have asked me for bareback, albeit none of them have been complete strangers. If someone requests that, and it's not what I want, I just say no, and we use a condom. I don't spend too much time worrying about the request. If anything I'm flattered that they would trust me." Is it that they trust you though or is it that they just dont care, they care more about having bareback sex than they do catching something, some may even enjoy taking the risk. | |||
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"The risk of bareback is hugely overstated, although there is still an undoubted risk. You're more likely to get killed in a car crash on the way to a meet than you are to contract HIV. As stated above, too, somebody diagnosed with HIV fairly early (anyone who barebacks should be tested regularly) today will live as long and as well as somebody without HIV. Many would say it's worth the risk. After all, sex is pretty much ruined with a condom. Like eating you're favourite food with the flu. Or having a massage while wearing a winter coat. " All very well saying someone with HIV can live as long as anyone without it though, i would rather not live at all if i had to take drugs for it for the rest of my life which can cause probably awful side effects, then every person you meet you have to tell them you have HIV before you have sex with them. | |||
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"About half the men I've had sex with since I've been swinging have asked me for bareback, albeit none of them have been complete strangers. If someone requests that, and it's not what I want, I just say no, and we use a condom. I don't spend too much time worrying about the request. If anything I'm flattered that they would trust me. Is it that they trust you though or is it that they just dont care, they care more about having bareback sex than they do catching something, some may even enjoy taking the risk." I didn't regard any of them as stupid men, who didn't care about their sexual health. But they may have been. | |||
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"If I had a penny for every gay man who asked me to bb him..." Well, I'd have a few quid | |||
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