FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swingers Chat > subs and self-esteem

subs and self-esteem

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

[Removed by poster at 27/01/14 08:51:23]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Interesting question but you seem to be implying that being sub only applies to women?

Also being submissive in a D/s relationship as opposed to role play does not necessarily mean one is demeaned, degraded, hurt or humiliated - one can be "controlled" without the need for pain or humiliation.

I think there are subs who do have issues with low self esteem and sadly many of them, both male and female, are exploited by others who do not fully understand the nature of a true D/s arrangement.

The priority of a true Dom/Domme is the wellbeing of the sub not to belittle or humiliate.

That's my opinion obviously and I don't doubt there are those who will disagree!!

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

The priority of a true Dom/Domme is the wellbeing of the sub not to belittle or humiliate.

That's my opinion obviously and I don't doubt there are those who will disagree!! "
But some people enjoy that kink. Also anyone that's submissive needs to take responsibility for communicating well with said Dom/Domme.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have met naturally Dom men, none have humiliated me but infact have been protective over me and my wellbeing, I just tend to feel naturally submissive to them.

I have always had to be independent and look after myself, a Dom man can take that pressure off and I feel I can be girlie and protected. I don't think I have a low self esteem (lack some confidence at times but don't confuse submitting with letting a man take the piss out of me)

I'm still new to D/s but I have discovered, I'm only submissive for the right men and its not forced. Men who think being pushy/bully is Dom or think I'm a push over tend to get a shock

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person.

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By *edangel_2013Woman over a year ago

southend

I've come across sub women with low self esteem, but the majority tend to be very strong women, who just enjoy relinquishing that control.

In my mind, anyone in a D/s relationship that has low self esteem is a danger to themselves. And that includes the Dim Doms that have self esteem issues, in other words bullies.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. "

So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person.

So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?"

Not in the submissives I've met on the Manchester scene. A D/s relationship requires communication and trust, not the Dominant doing what They want when They want without the consent of the submissive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person.

So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?"

In our case no, Nette is very much her own woman and knows exactly what she is looking for in a Sexual sense..Luckily for me she Enjoys what i do

Gary

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By *edangel_2013Woman over a year ago

southend

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person.

So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?"

I'm sure there is in some D/s relationships, just as there is in 'normal' relationships.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person.

So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?

I'm sure there is in some D/s relationships, just as there is in 'normal' relationships. "

Good point!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have met naturally Dom men, none have humiliated me but infact have been protective over me and my wellbeing, I just tend to feel naturally submissive to them.

I'm still new to D/s but I have discovered, I'm only submissive for the right men and its not forced. Men who think being pushy/bully is Dom or think I'm a push over tend to get a shock

And agree with what femme has said in previous posts too!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

iv always thought maybe subs have low self esteem and doms are women haters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person.

So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?

I have 3 playrooms, one is an AB nursery, and one is a kennel, for puppy play.

The men who visit tend to be in high power, responsible jobs, some employing many people, in their day to day life they are assertive, usually dominant Alpha male types. Mostly married with a family.

For AB and puppy play they have to strip, let me wash them and dress them, and for 2 or 3 hours they have no control, no phone, no money, no power.

The feedback I get from them is it re charges their batteries, releases stress and tension, I take my fav puppies to canal street in mcr, and they stay on all 4's, drink water from a dog bowl and let people stroke them.

so no, subs don't have low self esteem, the opposite in fact !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. "

Perfectly put

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

Insecurities are not specific to those who play this way, but I think the OP made a good point and I can see why people would think this way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"iv always thought maybe subs have low self esteem and doms are women haters."

A Dominant's role is to take care of the well-being of their submissive (men, women, cis gendered or transgendered can be submissives, its not just women) They can't do that if they hate the gender of their submissive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In fact I have to say that for one (and thus far) I agree with everything that has been said in this thread in response to the OP's question.

LOVE the reference to "Dim Doms" - there are so many of them out there who have no conception of what a Dom is and make themselves feel bigger by putting others down and as said they are bullies and not in the least bit Dom.

It would be interesting to read the thoughts/perspective of some submissive men on the subject too.

From messages I have received in the past I know there are men in high powered or demanding jobs who have to be "responsible" and find great release in letting go of all responsibility and allowing someone else to have control and thus derive great pleasure from taking a submissive role.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've met subs that have low self esteem.. they tend to be the ones that would accept a Velcro collar... But I think that it's not the norm.

I like the comfort and protection and for me giving in to that and giving my control over is a release from having to be in control all the time. Anyone that has met me knows how strong and independent I can be, even when having a rough time.

Yes I desire to utterly submit but it doesn't ruin me not to have it... I have the best of both worlds currently and don't submit outside of the bedroom which is a new thing for me... Yet I find that it works mostly..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They have read too many 50 shades books. My last relationship ended over 3 years ago, he was a bully and abusive not Dom at all, infact so insecure he tried to make me insecure too. When infact it made me stronger, I submit through choice to men who just give off their Dominance without trying.

Its the look they give me, the touch that makes me melt.....

If a guy makes out he won't want me if I dont do what he tells me then he quickly gets kicked to the curb.

It's only since discovering my submissive side, with the men who have just brought if out of me naturally, that I realised just how strong I really am.

D/s isn't always about spanking etc to me that's more BDSM and you don't need to play D/s to enjoy a bit of punishment.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I am still a novice and learning.

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"I've met subs that have low self esteem.. they tend to be the ones that would accept a Velcro collar... But I think that it's not the norm.

I think that a good dominant would guide his sub to better self confidence and esteem. I'm confident in all areas except playing alone .. as I've found I prefer the respect that I'm given as a couple.. and the dynamics.. yet Lee is trying to guide me, but being the strong willed individual that I am, dominant or not, I'm going at my pace with it . "
No they are not the ones that accept a velcro collar Cali, they are ones that have silver collars too, they come in all shapes and sizes and usually have difficulty functioning without their "Dom/Domme", those that need to be told how lovely they are 24/7, those that seek acceptance 24/7, so not exclusive to BDSM circles.

Collaring isn't about the type of collar, its the meaning behind it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Can you please explain the reference to Velcro vs silver collars?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I meant the ones that have such low self esteem that they will jump in with anyone.. accept the collar from the off etc.. in my experience they are girls that need picking up but because they don't care who often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down.

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"Can you please explain the reference to Velcro vs silver collars?"
Collar snob..I am sure Cali will explain.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can you please explain the reference to Velcro vs silver collars?"

I use Velcro collar to mean those that just accept it and it isn't earned or anything and they will swap to a new Dom and collar without any thought.. where as to me it would be a huge thing x

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"I meant the ones that have such low self esteem that they will jump in with anyone.. accept the collar from the off etc.. in my experience they are girls that need picking up but because they don't care who often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I'm fairly interested in this, but only as an observer. I think there is a heck of a lot more to it than most people think.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down.

I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc "

I don't understand how this fits in with what was said above about subs being strong and about D/s relationships being based on trust and caring and having the subs' best interests at heart.

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By *atasha_DavidCouple over a year ago

Slough

I have met some amazing male submissives, their strength of character and dedication to their Dom/mes leaves me full of admiration.

I personally would not want a partner who had not got the self awareness and and intelligence to make an informed and considered choice. It is an age old, if now somewhat trite belief, that "submission is a gift". If it is I want the gift to be given willingly and in full awareness of its true value.

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down.

I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc

I don't understand how this fits in with what was said above about subs being strong and about D/s relationships being based on trust and caring and having the subs' best interests at heart."
Simple, destructive mind games, to some who have dodgy self esteem anyway, it can crush, much the same as when a a none D/s relationship ends.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down.

I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc

I don't understand how this fits in with what was said above about subs being strong and about D/s relationships being based on trust and caring and having the subs' best interests at heart."

Because any Dom that picks up a sub then quickly drops Her/Him for a new model doesnt have their best interest at heart..and Vice Versa

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down.

I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc

I don't understand how this fits in with what was said above about subs being strong and about D/s relationships being based on trust and caring and having the subs' best interests at heart."

As I said some subs arent... But most are strong and independent.. you have good and bad.. not all dominants do have their subs interests at heart.. I speak to ladies that do see themselves as totally lesser than the Dom.. yet some actually enjoy that.. look at how sissy subs like to be humiliated..

It's certainly not for me.... Yet plenty seem to love it....

All I'm saying is there will always be some that have low self-esteem but on the whole it takes a strong person to hand over control to another... But it's very rewarding and uplifting to do so..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one?"
your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be important

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?"

Yes I think they have low self esteem,

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, "
Why is that then?

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one? your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be important"
They are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person.

So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be importantThey are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post."

I think she means it as a metaphor.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm quite in control of my life most of the time so for me in the interest in being sub is relinquishing that power to someone else so that way I for a short time properly relax

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one? your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be importantThey are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post."

It's exactly what I said.I know full well that s collar can be anything... To me Velcro collar is simply meaning someone that jumps doms and accepts collars like a new fashion accessory. In my experience these girls have low self esteem and will often be a risk to themselves...

My friends new collar is a hand made friendship bracelet... It's amazing for her... A collar is symbolic... Velcro collar is a term used to explain the type of sub I described.. not a type of collar.

Btw If Lee proposed I would laugh then leg it

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

I think she means it as a metaphor. "
I kind gathered that, but I am finding it interesting reading regarding what people think about those with low self esteem.

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one? your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be importantThey are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post.

My friends new collar is a hand made friendship bracelet... It's amazing for her... A collar is symbolic... Velcro collar is a term used to explain the type of sub I described.. not a type of collar.

Btw If Lee proposed I would laugh then leg it "
I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy?

Why on earth would I want to marry anyone again.. I have a play partnership because I don't Want or need a proper one.. besides If he proposed I'd think he was an imposter... It's not something that is ever a consideration..

I will never marry again.. because I don't wantto nothing to do with not being worthy..

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy?

I will never marry again.. because I don't wantto nothing to do with not being worthy.."
It was in the context of the thread to show how prosperous some attitudes are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?"

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy?

I will never marry again.. because I don't wantto nothing to do with not being worthy..It was in the context of the thread to show how prosperous some attitudes are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The topic of collars interests me, maybe I should start a new topic though.

If a person is collared is it similar to a vanilla relationship and would it be 24/7 D/s?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is"

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The topic of collars interests me, maybe I should start a new topic though.

If a person is collared is it similar to a vanilla relationship and would it be 24/7 D/s? "

We have no formal D/s relationship but I wear a collar daily, it is a sign of our relationship and commitment to one another.

I will hold my hands up and say I used to be a collar snob, but from being active on the kink scene I am confident to say that a collar is unique to each couple as is its meaning.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/01/14 10:26:31]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The topic of collars interests me, maybe I should start a new topic though.

If a person is collared is it similar to a vanilla relationship and would it be 24/7 D/s?

We have no formal D/s relationship but I wear a collar daily, it is a sign of our relationship and commitment to one another.

I will hold my hands up and say I used to be a collar snob, but from being active on the kink scene I am confident to say that a collar is unique to each couple as is its meaning."

Said better than me..

posting when tired should be banned

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is"

Why should people Resist what they so obviously Enjoy ?

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy?

I will never marry again.. because I don't wantto nothing to do with not being worthy..It was in the context of the thread to show how prosperous some attitudes are.

Why is thinking that women that give no consideration to their safety or wellbeing by jumping doms prosperous? To me it shows low self esteem and they often admit themselves they feel worthless. So it was very valid point. "
You dont need a dom or jump from one to another to feel worthless, when you split up with your ex dom, I remember all too well the threads you put up and how you said you felt, you said you could never submit again, yet you have, as you feel safer and more secure with a partner all be it slightly different dynamics, it didn't take long, have you ever stopped to think that could also be deemed as having low self esteem?

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By *r magicaMan over a year ago

grimsby

no from what I know an do my sub found a liking to my dom side .and she is a strong person .but a sub picks her dom master .it doesn't just happen .she took to my ways quite easy .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... "

Is it? And how do these relationships end?

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By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

I have found that the Sub's I have known have always been intelligent in knowing what they want, cognitive in knowing what to do and have the strength of will to pass over physical control to achieve it.

That never felt like low self esteem to me.

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?"
Is your self esteem low?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was knocked for 6 and think we all when we split say never again. It took me a good long time... And it wasn't something I looked for. As my friends know I distanced myself from the kink world.

I am just giving my personal opinion that when I speak to girls that jump doms and will submit to anyone That offers that they are the first to admit their self esteem is low.

I'm actually stronger now than I ever was as a slave... I am happy to have control for the majority of the time and have a good friend that I can gift my submission to on occasion... As I am not ready to give it fully yet, not sure I ever could.

I like and respect myself.. so no... I do not suffer low self esteem. And my comments are purely on girls I've had the interaction with.

I mentored when I was abandoned as it helped me... And it was good to give back

Low self.esteem goes hand in hand with lack of respect for yourself.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?"

How do normal relationships end?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?"

No, is yours??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?

How do normal relationships end?"

In very different ways, are yiu suggesting they are 'normal' relationships

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?

No, is yours?? "
Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have met naturally Dom men, none have humiliated me but infact have been protective over me and my wellbeing, I just tend to feel naturally submissive to them.

I'm still new to D/s but I have discovered, I'm only submissive for the right men and its not forced. Men who think being pushy/bully is Dom or think I'm a push over tend to get a shock

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?

No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!

So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ?

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?

No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!

So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ?"
I don't need to explain at all, I have never done a meet today, so can only guess why,just the same as you are guessing about women who are submissive, things can be misconstrued, are you getting my point yet?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?

No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!

So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ?I don't need to explain at all, I have never done a meet today, so can only guess why,just the same as you are guessing about women who are submissive, things can be misconstrued, are you getting my point yet? "

No, I will be blunt, your talking crap, I answered the OPs questions, what is your answer?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

A meet today = low self esteem?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A meet today = low self esteem?

Yes, apparently, I understand what she was trying to imply, but if you don't have an opinion on a subject it's very difficult to criticise someone who has

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?

No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!

No, I will be blunt, your talking crap, I answered the OPs questions, what is your answer?"

I will be Blunt, YOUR talking crap by accusing those of us that enjoy that way of life Ridiculous and Degraded

Gary

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The topic of collars interests me, maybe I should start a new topic though.

If a person is collared is it similar to a vanilla relationship and would it be 24/7 D/s?

We have no formal D/s relationship but I wear a collar daily, it is a sign of our relationship and commitment to one another.

I will hold my hands up and say I used to be a collar snob, but from being active on the kink scene I am confident to say that a collar is unique to each couple as is its meaning."

Thank you, I guess it's not one size fits all. As I only play at D/s and I am completely single, collaring is the unknown.

Not sure I like the idea of it being 24/7 but I never say never, if I met the right Dom....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?

No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!

No, I will be blunt, your talking crap, I answered the OPs questions, what is your answer?

I will be Blunt, YOUR talking crap by accusing those of us that enjoy that way of life Ridiculous and Degraded

Gary"

Firstly your entitled to your opinion , and I am entitled to mine, secondly 'why' do you engage in such relationships??

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Ok let's keep it civil please

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok let's keep it civil please

I was

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?

No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!

No, I will be blunt, your talking crap, I answered the OPs questions, what is your answer?

I will be Blunt, YOUR talking crap by accusing those of us that enjoy that way of life Ridiculous and Degraded

Gary

Firstly your entitled to your opinion , and I am entitled to mine, secondly 'why' do you engage in such relationships??"

Of course your entitled to an opinion thats what these forums are about but as Rugby just said it should be kept Civil.

We engage in our relationship because we both get what we want out of it and we are Happy and Nette is far from Ridiculous nor does she feel Degraded in anyway

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"A meet today = low self esteem?

Yes, apparently, I understand what she was trying to imply, but if you don't have an opinion on a subject it's very difficult to criticise someone who has"
I am glad you understand the implication.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A meet today = low self esteem?

Yes, apparently, I understand what she was trying to imply, but if you don't have an opinion on a subject it's very difficult to criticise someone who hasI am glad you understand the implication.

I do, shame you used such a terrible example, also what's is your opinion on the sub/dom relationship

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I understood the meaning, I just thought it was a bad example, hence my

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Low self esteem? I don't think so..

Nette

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

I think some might have and that is what I worry about, there are clearly people out to exploit the vulnerable or people with lower self esteem.

but hey, not my thing but I fully accept that many enjoy it for all the right reasons for both of them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Low self esteem? I don't think so..

Nette

Tbh your example of sub/dom play is very different as your a couple in a 'conventional' so to speak relationship, it's the more hard core sub/dims I was referring to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is"

I think your probably right, it is a bit ridiculous. i became interested in it a few years ago, then when i started meeting different men for sex i realised that i didnt need anything more than straight sex to enjoy myself.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?"

Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?

Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail?"

Yes

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?

Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail?

Yes"

And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?

Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail?

Yes

And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after? "

Did I say that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

I met one once, and i have been contacted by a few on this site and on alt to know they arent my type.

i have found a few seem to be a bit selfish and inadequate, of course i may be wrong and its just my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?

Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail?

Yes

And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after?

Did I say that"

No, but it is no more ridiculous a claim than the previous one you made about D/s relationships being destined to fail.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

this is a genuine question

are there a minority that indulge in this, that enjoy being pained and hurt emotionally.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?

Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail?

Yes

And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after?

Did I say that

No, but it is no more ridiculous a claim than the previous one you made about D/s relationships being destined to fail."

They are destined to fail, do you have evidence to suggest they don't, btw try answering the OP question

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed."

But you haven't considered anything other than your opinion. You clearly aren't open to discussion and are dismissing any _iews that don't correspond and challenge yours.

Of course their are some fucked up D/s relationships and of course there care some fucked up subs and predatory Doms but all of them? Seriously? And there are plenty of questionable and abusive relationships with no hint of D/s which you also seem to be overlooking

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

They are destined to fail, do you have evidence to suggest they don't, "

Do you have any evidence to say all those type of relationships fail?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/01/14 12:59:36]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?

Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?

Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is

How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect...

Is it? And how do these relationships end?

Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail?

Yes

And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after?

Did I say that

No, but it is no more ridiculous a claim than the previous one you made about D/s relationships being destined to fail.

They are destined to fail, do you have evidence to suggest they don't, btw try answering the OP question "

Oh please, you offer a totally unsubstantiated opinion as fact and then challenge me to disprove it.

And I see little point in answering the OP as the debate has moved on

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

It would be good if someone who lives this way answers the OP for an insight in how they think as not many have

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Ok posts have been removed....if you can't debate without attacking people then please don't post at all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed."

Not at all. Nor am I naive, easily manipulative or brainwashed. I do, however, have experience of D/s and submission. I am active on the kink scene in Manchester and could find you more than a few confident submissives who are in happy, consensual relationships that do not give them low self esteem.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed.

Could you also find some who have self esteem issues and who are manipulated in their relationship too?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed.

But you haven't considered anything other than your opinion. You clearly aren't open to discussion and are dismissing any _iews that don't correspond and challenge yours.

So how do you distinguish a good Dom who is truly concerned about the sub's welfare and the bully, predatory, taking the piss, potentially abusive Doms who just care about themselves and the subjugation of their subs?

Are there any tell tale signs to look out for?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Pops in to see if posts have reached the length that chapter headings are required

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed.

Could you also find some who have self esteem issues and who are manipulated in their relationship too?"

Yes, but I could find them in vanilla settings too. The OP used the word tend and the poster who I was replying to has been very generalised towards D/s.

I genuinely think that people who are in a D/s relationship with formal guidelines and rules are more aware of what is acceptable and not as their relationship has defined rules. Maybe that's me using my past vanilla relationships (I don't consider my current relationship to be a totally vanilla relationship) as a comparison to the other relationships I've had.

I just think that there have been a few quite sharp posts on here about relationship dynamics that the posters haven't had experience of and I think that could be construed as quite offensive to those in happy, loving relationships with such dynamics.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I suppose so....but unless anyone answers the questions the rest of us wouldn't know how it works for them anyway

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Any Dom/me that targets a sub with low self esteem and does nothing but feeds into that is a tyrant not a Dom/me, They are very different personality types.

The best D/s relationships i know of are ones where that dynamic happened naturally and were not sought after.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules".

Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you?

If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s!

And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed."

is your impression based on any actual experience yourself or from folks you have known who fit your opinion..?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person.

So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?

Agree

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Im in a domme/sub relationship. We both have professional jobroles, no low opionions of ourselves and totally trust each other. There is alot more to it than one whipping the shite out of the other.... We are both veru happy, independant, nice people enjoyingceach other.

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By *atasha_DavidCouple over a year ago

Slough

"The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules".

Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you?

If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no?"

From my experience

Rules evolve as the relationship does. They are often seen as an expression of control being exerted by the Dom/me, this is for their submissive a desirable thing, by definition they wish to be controlled by their Dom/me.

If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship.

This is no different from a vanilla relationship and lot easier to dissolve than a legally binding marriage.

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By *irtyAndCh33kyCouple over a year ago

North Wales

"The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules".

Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you?

If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no?"

A commonly used term is 'limits' and they are discussed in detail before any D/s relationship is entered into. The Dom/Domme may push those limits but the sub always has the power to say no....it's consensual.

Mrs Dirty

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

The word trust has only been used a few times in the thread, that and communication are paramount in any sub/dom/roleplay relationship as indeed they are in the 'vanilla' side of sexual relationships..

and yes not all sub/dom interaction will necessarily involve sex all the time..

the person trusted to be the dominant partner will (or should not) push the other person too far and to extremes that they know will be either wrong for the sub or that the sub is not ready for..

again with some there will be an element of wanting their boundaries pushed within the trust built up..

low self esteem is no more an issue with consenting people in sub dom than it is in vanilla, folks will have it and other may well exploit it..

thats hardly breaking news in some relationships though whatever the dynamic..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play.

Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated?

Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)?

I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?"

Those who engage in D/s type play and relationships are people. There are people who have self esteem issues. I have self esteem issues but, by being led into doing something, the thoughts I would have regarding how I look and what other people think about me are removed as my Dom takes that responsibility away from me. It empowers me. When I play in either a swinging club or a fetish club, I only care about his approval which he gives me which takes my worries away. Without him, I am left to consider everything alone which leaves me feeling vulnerable.

I have met subs/slaves/pets/toys/bottoms who have incredibly high self esteems and are very secure in what they do and how they do it and don't care what people who don't matter to them think (within reason-consent for example).

The reason I enjoy being hurt is because it then mentally links pleasure to pain. Being a self harmer in the past, I rarely feel the craving now as I no longer link pain to self punishment. I enjoy humiliation as it lifts my self esteem-the thought that someone would want to use me however they wish and to show me off makes me feel special. There have been people in the past who have abused that part of my psyche but the good Dom/mes have been able to use that part of me to enrich the experience overall for both of us.

Abuses exist in all types of relationships and abuse is not restricted to one gender, sexual orientation or anything else. Abusers know how to manipulate their victim to get the result they want wether that's fear, self doubt or total control. Good mental Dom/mes use their ability to manipulate for the benefit of their sub which then benefits them.

crystal

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By *atasha_DavidCouple over a year ago

Slough

........

*Eloquent and insightful*

.......

crystal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The word trust has only been used a few times in the thread, that and communication are paramount in any sub/dom/roleplay relationship as indeed they are in the 'vanilla' side of sexual relationships..

and yes not all sub/dom interaction will necessarily involve sex all the time..

the person trusted to be the dominant partner will (or should not) push the other person too far and to extremes that they know will be either wrong for the sub or that the sub is not ready for..

again with some there will be an element of wanting their boundaries pushed within the trust built up..

low self esteem is no more an issue with consenting people in sub dom than it is in vanilla, folks will have it and other may well exploit it..

thats hardly breaking news in some relationships though whatever the dynamic.. "

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules".

Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you?

If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no?

From my experience

If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship.

This is no different from a vanilla relationship and lot easier to dissolve than a legally binding marriage."

So there could well be an ultimatum of " if you don't do this we are over "?

I suppose that could be seen as manipulation.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules".

Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you?

If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no?

Mrs Dirty "

A bit like any relationship then as I am sure we all must have limits.

A previous poster mentioned that if one says no it could be the end of the relationship....so I am guessing there are different ideas as to how the D/S thing happens

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is entirely possible to be in a committed D/s relationship (not the same as role play) without the need for pain, corporal punishment or humiliation.

It is also very easy to determine the difference between a "real/true/natural" Dom/me and a bully - there are plenty of wannabe Doms in particular on Fab who have no real understanding of the dynamic and it is immediately obvious from their profiles. Ironically the majority of people on Fab who are living a D/s lifestyle do not feel the need to broadcast it.

Before this thread got hijacked by the more objectionable and quite frankly ridiculous comments made by those who do not fully understand the dynamic it was actually well explained by some.

Genuine D/s relationships are founded in a deep and abiding love and trust as are many vanilla or "conventional" relationships and they are just as prone to ending/enduring as the latter. A good D/s relationship is also based on communication and understanding which in my personal experience goes far deeper than in many (NOT ALL) "conventional" relationships.

I can only speak from personal experience but I ended a 20 year verbally and abusive bullying relationship with my children's father and it was only with hindsight that I recognised that actually I was always the stronger partner and he put me down constantly as a result of his own insecurities.

I did not then seek a D/s relationship, but I did after several years on my own know that I wanted to be with a man who would cherish, support and value me and one who would take responsibility for us both. He is naturally dominant and I am submissive because I CHOOSE to be not because he expects it or makes me. The dynamic works for us as a couple, it is a lifestyle choice and does not involve either pain or humiliation - my partner recognises all too well that I would not tolerate either and he has enough respect for me that he would never inflict either.

For anyone who would like a better insight into D/s relationships I would recommend that you google the poem "I am a submissive wife" which explains it beautifully from a woman's perspective in my opinion - and that is all I offer - an opinion.

We are each entitled to live our lives the way we choose to as long as it is consensual and we are not hurting others by doing so. If you do not condone or fully understand others' choices fair enough but there is no need to condemn them out of hand as a result. Live and let live?

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By *irtyAndCh33kyCouple over a year ago

North Wales

"It is entirely possible to be in a committed D/s relationship (not the same as role play) without the need for pain, corporal punishment or humiliation.

Before this thread got hijacked by the more objectionable and quite frankly ridiculous comments made by those who do not fully understand the dynamic it was actually well explained by some.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There is a mention of rules.

They are boundaries to be set by both.

The dom should respect his sub, and vice versa.

You will actually find the sub has more control than the dom.

So anyone who thinks a sub lays down and takes it needs to educate themselves a little more.

It is a kink and fetish enjoyed by both.

I have my own my own mind, and far from a pussy cat.

Thankyou Nette

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship.

I appreciate that not every D/S relationship is the same, just as any swinging relationship, but as there are contradicting posts as to what may happen if a person says no then there doesn't seem a definitive answer to go by.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

The dom should respect his sub, and vice versa.

You will actually find the sub has more control than the dom.

So anyone who thinks a sub lays down and takes it needs to educate themselves a little more.

and that is what I try to do on these forums with things I don't understand.

thanks for sharing...

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships).

There are people who I have observed for years/months that bewilder me, they are people of extremes. The downs far outweigh the ups and the downs are usually caused by someone else. I can't see being a sub is going to help that.

( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there )

There are people that seem to be crying out for happiness, they seem to continually be let down... they are mainly in the sub/dom scene and I just wonder if they are really suited to it but do it to please others more than find the right one..

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By *irtyAndCh33kyCouple over a year ago

North Wales

"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship.

A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that!

As in all relationships things can go wrong and it comes to a end but it's really not a case of the Dom/Domme saying 'if you don't do as I say it's all over'. The ones that treat a sub that way are usually the 'Dim Doms'

Mrs Dirty

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The dom should respect his sub, and vice versa.

You will actually find the sub has more control than the dom.

So anyone who thinks a sub lays down and takes it needs to educate themselves a little more.

and that is what I try to do on these forums with things I don't understand.

thanks for sharing..."
your welcome nette

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships).

( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there )

I absolutely agree with you, I do think there are many who are exploited but I do think there is some confusion between D/s and BDSM and BDSM I feel can be far more exploitative and many are at risk because they are needy - tho there are also plenty who go into it fully aware and seeking the sexual/mental thrill they crave.

I also think it is probably true that there are couples on Fab where one partner is involved to please or for fear of losing the other so are being equally exploited and allowing themselves to be so.

Sadly it is a fact of life that some will allow others to use them, this does not only apply to D/s and BDSM lifestyles.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships).

( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there )

I also think it is probably true that there are couples on Fab where one partner is involved to please or for fear of losing the other so are being equally exploited and allowing themselves to be so.

Sadly it is a fact of life that some will allow others to use them, this does not only apply to D/s and BDSM lifestyles. "

thanks, I wasn't sure if the essence of what I was trying to say got there.

I am not meaning any offence to anyone.

thanks for answering

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship.

A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that!

Mrs Dirty "

To be honest I am just going on a comment up there from someone who seems to know the scene well which was

"If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship."

Which for me translates to, a Dom may dump someone as their sub if the sub changes their mind and don't want to do something that was already agreed.

That doesn't sound like the sub is in control at all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships).

( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there )

I also think it is probably true that there are couples on Fab where one partner is involved to please or for fear of losing the other so are being equally exploited and allowing themselves to be so.

Sadly it is a fact of life that some will allow others to use them, this does not only apply to D/s and BDSM lifestyles. "

Even through my post, I agree with this too, there is needy people, I have come across them, certain woman I have had dealings with, ( not on this site) there is people that will note this and prey.

Nette

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship.

A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that!

Mrs Dirty

To be honest I am just going on a comment up there from someone who seems to know the scene well which was

"If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship."

Which for me translates to, a Dom may dump someone as their sub if the sub changes their mind and don't want to do something that was already agreed.

That doesn't sound like the sub is in control at all.

Surely any relationship can end because the two partners disagree about how to proceed that isn't specific to a D/s relationship is it?

I get what you are saying but think maybe you have taken the explanation too literally. A Dom/me who understands and respects their sub would not end a relationship because the sub said no, they would discuss the reasons for and against and reach a compromise where possible.

This is precisely where exploitation comes in, a sub has to have the self esteem and confidence to be able to say no and trust that the Dom/me will listen and a good Dom/me would expect and respect it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship.

A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that!

Mrs Dirty

To be honest I am just going on a comment up there from someone who seems to know the scene well which was

"If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship."

Which for me translates to, a Dom may dump someone as their sub if the sub changes their mind and don't want to do something that was already agreed.

That doesn't sound like the sub is in control at all.

A sub is in control as much as any half in a relationship is. If I told 2wheels I would never want a cat then decided I wanted one, it's up to us to compromise. He can leave if he wants so I can get a cat, I can talk it through with him and get a cat, I can leave so I can have a cat or I may decide not having a cat is the best thing for us anyway. The same as all relationships-things change, people grow and develop and such their wants, needs and desires change.

I'm sure some subs say that the sub holds the true power to reassure and assert themselves but without the Dominance, their submission could be considered meaningless. If submission is a gift, then so is Dominance. Both should be appreciated and respected by both parties on both sides.

crystal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships).

( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there )

I also think it is probably true that there are couples on Fab where one partner is involved to please or for fear of losing the other so are being equally exploited and allowing themselves to be so.

Sadly it is a fact of life that some will allow others to use them, this does not only apply to D/s and BDSM lifestyles.

thanks, I wasn't sure if the essence of what I was trying to say got there.

I am not meaning any offence to anyone.

thanks for answering

You're welcome and your _iews were not in the least bit offensive - not to me anyway - your concern was relevant and well expressed. (Hope that doesn't sound patronising, it wasnt intended to!)

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By *risky_MareWoman over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

Thanks for explaining, and I found the poem, but for me that still crosses the line - any relationship that involves one party 'punishing' the other, or demeaning them even if only by name calling is, to me, abusive.

I can **accept** how some people might not find it so, may find it fulfilling and actually seek it. But, like the OP (I think?) it just beats my why anyone would. I find the dynamic fascinating, but not the end kind of end result so many people describe.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships).

( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there )

People who are desperate and crying out for happiness and attention are always in danger of making themselves vulnerable and falling victim to those who would take advantage.

BDSM can be extreme and the emotions and hormones that result from indulging can warp people's minds. I was in a triad relationship but it wasn't right for me but because the time I spent with my Dominant was so amazing, I continued to kid myself that he was the one for me. I'm sure that's happened to many people where they've continued with a relationship that wasn't right for them but they believed that it was right and made excuses for all the problems.

crystal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A slave would be dismissed.

A sub has the right to say no

They are very different, but often I think they can be identified as the same.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I think people are naive if they think every Dom /sub relationship is the way it is portrayed on here by the people who are in the relationships and happy in them.

Like all relationships there could be self esteem issues / controlling / manipulation etc but in a dom/ sub relationship it can be hidden behind the description of the relationship.

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By *w33tCh33ks91TV/TS over a year ago

Manchester

I do class myself as sub and I have two DOM Masters they're the only Masters I have ever had and have taught me a lot about D/s play. I like to be taken control of and have my sexual decisions made while we are in play and when I started out with them I classed myself a no limits sub however now I have experienced a little more I have come to decide I do not like heavy spanking (pain). I do consider myself a very confident person sexually and non-sexually so regarding myself I don't think I do this because I have a low self esteem issue, I'm sure other submissive people will have self esteem issues and even some Dominant people will have certain self esteem issues. It's is an interesting point to make but I personally think D/s play is just another fetish and it is brought to life by simply experiencing it whether it be physically or watching it happen ie. porn.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship.

A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that!

Mrs Dirty

To be honest I am just going on a comment up there from someone who seems to know the scene well which was

"If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship."

Which for me translates to, a Dom may dump someone as their sub if the sub changes their mind and don't want to do something that was already agreed.

That doesn't sound like the sub is in control at all.

Surely any relationship can end because the two partners disagree about how to proceed that isn't specific to a D/s relationship is it?

. "

No to your first question, it isn't confined just to D/S...I am sure it applies to vanilla and swinging couples too.

I am just going on what someone has said what the ultimate action would be about being dumped...now either it is like you say, that the Dom didn't respect their sub, or it is as the post suggested, that subs may be dumped if denying what was set as rules.

Obviously unless someone came along and told us they were we will never know if that was the case for someone

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think in fairness to all, master / sub relationships are all different.

As we all have our own different boundaries.

You can go from one master to another, and one sub to another and each will have different _iews.

Nette

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"I think in fairness to all, master / sub relationships are all different.

Nette"

I agree and why I said there will never be a definitive answer , so "education" in the matter will always be contradictory.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think in fairness to all, master / sub relationships are all different.

Nette

I agree and why I said there will never be a definitive answer , so "education" in the matter will always be contradictory.

Yes it will but that is still not exclusive to D/s relationships. No to relationships, whatever their basis, are the same.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It crosses the line for me too and I have said as much in earlier posts on this thread, degradation / punishment whether verbal or physical is not essential to a successful D/s relationship.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"I think in fairness to all, master / sub relationships are all different.

Nette

I agree and why I said there will never be a definitive answer , so "education" in the matter will always be contradictory.

Yes it will but that is still not exclusive to D/s relationships. No to relationships, whatever their basis, are the same."

That goes without saying.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Quite the opposite.. it takes a very strong person with humilty, strength, a grounded sense of self and a total control of their own emotions to be a true submissive. And contrary to what you state, they dont 'allow' themselves to be used or humiliated, they gift it to the person they trust, honour and respect enough to look after that submission; in turn allowing them a release, an expression of themselves, an inner peace, a need fulfilled. Submission in its true form is a very beautiful thing and not at all related to low self esteem.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite the opposite.. it takes a very strong person with humilty, strength, a grounded sense of self and a total control of their own emotions to be a true submissive. And contrary to what you state, they dont 'allow' themselves to be used or humiliated, they gift it to the person they trust, honour and respect enough to look after that submission; in turn allowing them a release, an expression of themselves, an inner peace, a need fulfilled. Submission in its true form is a very beautiful thing and not at all related to low self esteem."

Very well said

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

I am submissive and I have no issues what so ever with my self esteem. I am confident capable and in a relationship where who and what I am is valued.

I think self esteem and doing things in an unhealthy way to keep a partner happen in all walks of life and no more or less so in D/s. Infact I have come across more partners swinging to keep other person happy then I have come across submissives with low self esteem.

In my relationship with Matt I have never been more confident as I am with someone who accepts me just as I am, who trusts me to say what I am able to handle. Yes he has control but at the end of the day its not in his interests to make me a less capable confident person as that would leave me less able to do what we do.

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By *atasha_DavidCouple over a year ago

Slough

I am just going on what someone has said what the ultimate action would be about being dumped...

Obviously unless someone came along and told us they were we will never know if that was the case for someone "

Well as the author of that comment I will clarify my intended meaning as it seems to have been misunderstood or at least in one case wilfully misrepresented.

A sub can always think "You have gone too far, lost the plot, started to believe your own myth, I am out of here."

Submissives are not brain washed vegetables incapable of rational thought, but usually do what they do with much thought and care. Just like in a vanilla relationship, if the other person becomes someone different to the person you entered it with, you can leave. Submissives finish D/s relationships at least as often as Dominants do.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am just going on what someone has said what the ultimate action would be about being dumped...

Obviously unless someone came along and told us they were we will never know if that was the case for someone

Well as the author of that comment I will clarify my intended meaning as it seems to have been misunderstood or at least in one case wilfully misrepresented.

A sub can always think "You have gone too far, lost the plot, started to believe your own myth, I am out of here."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Tbh when I met cali she had come out of a bad d/s,relationship and when I read her posts in the forums always thought she gave good constructive comments but also thought she came across as aggorant and sometimes conceited.After meeting her and watching her play.her subside was evident ..but in play especially group play can be dominant however after first playing and contact after this she was looking for something that tbh she can't be apart from in play as she has to be dominant for her kids and the 24/7 sub thing soon got passed by after mutual discussion .as I am naturally dominant in general play but have no intention of becoming a dim Dom (lol ruby ) she is now playing as a happy partner in a couple of perverts profile and enjoying pushing boundaries in a different way but willalways look for her subside in play.but will always support her and look out for her in life play and friendship....hope this makes sense xx thanks squeak xx

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I am just going on what someone has said what the ultimate action would be about being dumped...

Obviously unless someone came along and told us they were we will never know if that was the case for someone

Well as the author of that comment I will clarify my intended meaning as it seems to have been misunderstood or at least in one case wilfully misrepresented.

A sub can always think "You have gone too far, lost the plot, started to believe your own myth, I am out of here."

Just to clarify, I was asking more about the Dom doing the dumping if the sub didn't do what was planned ( I should have clarified it on the post ) I assumed you were answering on that basis.

Having said that, your answer could have applied to the Sub or the dom doing the walking away if they didn't get their wish.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Very well said

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By *tirling DarkCouple over a year ago

Stirling

I have not read every word posted but can see some themes emerging here so have tried to cover the main points.

In answer to the original post:

I can't speak for every sub but I can for myself and those I know well. I am a sub who is into extremes of pain and humiliation and first off not all subs are into either, so please dont assume that all subs are masochistic cause they are not and that does not make them any less sub.

I am a strong independent determined driven women. When my Master and I play I can stop thinking. I can let go and enjoy the ride and the lack of control. It is liberating and the rush of having that much faith and trust in another person is amazingly. The intimacy is mind blowing imho. I don't have self esteem issues in the slightest. My friends who are sub dont either.

'True' D/s

I have seen this banded around many times and there is no such thing. I am extreme to some and to others not so much. I am no more a sub because of what I submit to than my Master is any more of a D type for inflicting it.

However 50 shades of shite has a lot to answer for and there are people who experiment (all for that) and there are people who come across the lifestyle because they are looking for a person to connect with. In my experience there are people who profess to be subs who have self-esteem issues and really it is just about being desperate to connect with someone. Which is sad and dangerous because these people attract arseholes. But then again this is true of vanilla land too. Although as some one pointed out the stakes in BDSM are higher especially when you are talking about breath play and such.

Consent and power abuse

The power lies with the sub to say no / safeword (not that I use one) if they are no and if the D type is an arsehole then they may well dump the sub. This is no different to the way arseholes treat people outside the lifestyle.

I would not stand to be treated like that in a relationship. However as our profile says we are looking for play mates who are into the same things we are if some one turns up - and this has happened - who has lied about their kink and experience and will not or can not obey then we will show them the door. That is the difference between play and relationships.

Additionally there are some arseholes dont listen to no / safewords and those people are abusers not players. Simple as and clear cut as rape V consensual sex.

Original post: Naive or offensive?

I think it a little naive if I am honest of the person posting to assume that all people who are sub in the bedroom have the same hang ups outside of it. That is like saying everyone who likes anal has compulsive tendencies. This is the best way I could take the post. The worst way to take the post is though it suggests that low-self esteem causes people to want to be submissive. In this case the suggestion is offensive to my sexuality; the assumption that it is a side effect of poor well-being.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It can come across offensive as people only see a woman taking pain she doesn't enjoy.

Far from the truth, being at the mercy of a master is a very powerful thing, but only to those that enjoy.

To the sub, to give her trust a powerful thing in itself.

To the Dom, being given the trust an honour.

"Safe words" are not needed here,as he would know, and knowing my body inside out.

I can asure anyone that does not know much about this when partaking a truly powerful thing in only the best possible way.

Trust and bond

Dom and submissive.

Nette

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I can only speak for myself as I don't know many people in the scene, but I can honestly say my submissive side has nothing to do with low self esteem. It is something I do genuinely enjoy, with the right partners. I currently meet a man who I know respects me and my boundaries and we're both having a lot of fun exploring them...but my submission is restricted to play so I only need to be in that head space for a few hours at a time.

I can see why some don't understand the enjoyment of pain, but for me when I am in the right frame of mind, pain gets me incredibly aroused. I don't understand why it does, but it is only when I am with someone I trust not to take advantage of me whether restrained or not. He may be in control, but I know I can stop play at any time should I need to...although he can read me well enough to know when to stop/change technique without me having to ask

I personally do not enjoy humiliation play, probably as I do have body confidence issues (which I'm sure people of all walks of life so whether Dom, sub or vanilla) and so I have in the past left a scene after a couple of hours (I was meant to be there for 2 days) because the 'Dom' continually picked at my weight. I had told him beforehand this was a sensitive issue for me and that I didn't like that kind of play, but he kept pushing it...had I been 'weak' or desperate to please I would have stayed despite disliking what he was saying, but I'd had enough and cut the meet short.

Anyway, I've kind of lost the point of the thread, so I'll just add that there will be some subs with self esteem issues, but I don't believe this is why they are sub...they'd still have these issues in a vanilla relationship, or in no relationship at all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Some very good points of _iew here, and some that are unsurprisingly erm lets say naieve, This is exactly why we keep kink and swinging seperate, for us they just do not mix especially as our dynamic is far from the accepted norm and swinging causes consent/non consent issues.

As for an example i dont consider myself Dom, but she does consider herself sub, and considers me Dom, i do not ask for submission it is freely given, for us this is a very personal thing and not something we wish to share.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Thanks to everyone who contributed.

I think I have learned quite a bit from the several points of _iew expressed above.

Didn't expect the thread to generate such passionate responses but this is clearly an area of sexuality that people have strong _iews on.

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