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Out of your league, punching and other BS
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I wrote this a while back on another platform, but after being at a party on friday, and once again told this shit, i thought id share it here.
I was speaking with a friend of mine who told me, I am punching
We have been friends for years, He said the same when i started dating my child's mother and with at least two other play partners.
I told him that tells me more about him than it does about them or I. Its a common thing though many people say it.
What does it mean when he said this to me, that he thinks im ugly? That all that matters is looks?
For me the most aesthetically pleasing people can be unattractive even replusive if they have a bad attitude, lack manners or are unneccesarily cruel/discrespectful
What does it mean when other people say it?
That the persons partner is more aesthetically pleasing than them (in my case Shy, is more aesthetically pleassing than me). I agree, it doesnt mean she is out of my league nor is anyone else. I am not the most strikingly handsome man, true, but there is more to me than looks or a big dick (I dont have one, thank god) thats another writing (Maybe)
I have said to numerous people, numerous times that, if you don't make that person you are interested in aware of your interest, then you are by definition, giving yourself a knock back/rejection and may never find out if they felt/feel the same about you. You will sit longingly watching as they find someone who is not you, and wish you had the nerve to just tell them. Isn't better to know for sure?
So if anyone who reads this is interested in someone here on Fet or elsewhere let them know, let them decide if they are interested in you.
Just be polite when doing so.
Finally, please can we stop with the Punching, out of your league bullshit. |
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By *issmorganWoman
over a year ago
Calderdale innit |
I dont think yout friend sounds much of a friend op,sounds a bit like jealousy or sour grapes keeping telling you you're punching.
The women you are seeing obviously dont agree .I only ever see that phrase used in a snide way. |
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"
I was speaking with a friend of mine who told me, I am punching
We have been friends for years, He said the same when i started dating my child's mother and with at least two other play partners.
"
Why do you remain friends with him ? |
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"
I was speaking with a friend of mine who told me, I am punching
We have been friends for years, He said the same when i started dating my child's mother and with at least two other play partners.
Why do you remain friends with him ? "
actually the person in this example is no longer my friend, he met someone who was very toxic and changed him in many horrible ways, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's this part that I tend to agree with.. not in all cases but but in some people the ego is more important than kindness
For me the most aesthetically pleasing people can be unattractive even replusive if they have a bad attitude, lack manners or are unneccesarily cruel/discrespectful.
Its the person, not the looks, not the sexuality, not the gender. The person and what made them them is what I go for |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
I don’t know you or your friend, but myself (male half currently) and friends often say it to each other.
Mostly said as banter, or as a compliment about their partner being fit, not that they’re particularly ugly. |
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They think it's a compliment in some weird way. At our daughter's wedding all my son in laws friends were saying he was punching blah blah. Which I thought was an insult. Naturally I think our daughter is beautiful and on her wedding day she was breathtakingly so but he is also a very attractive guy and they're very well matched in personalities.
I don't know though if I misunderstand when people say you shouldn't judge on looks but then say good looking people can have horrible personalities. Surely if looks don't matter what a horrible person looks like is irrelevant |
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"I don’t know you or your friend, but myself (male half currently) and friends often say it to each other.
Mostly said as banter, or as a compliment about their partner being fit, not that they’re particularly ugly."
yes i know its "Banter" but its also BS and can affect people (not me) in a very negative way |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I remember once being told by someone after they had seen my partner "oooo you've done well there". I don't think she meant anything by it, but it really stuck with me, and even now, years later I still, think what exactly did she mean by that! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I remember once being told by someone after they had seen my partner "oooo you've done well there". I don't think she meant anything by it, but it really stuck with me, and even now, years later I still, think what exactly did she mean by that! "
Do you know how intake that?? Wow your partner is hot. Id never be able to get someone like that I'm just not self confident enough.. a backhanded compliment I guess.. |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
Oh for sure, but on the flip side most wouldn’t sleep with someone they found ugly even if their personality was amazing.
Looks gets the foot in the door so to speak :D
I’m also pretty sure most would fuck someone with a crap personality if they’re were out of this world stunning. Jason Momoa could have the personality of a wet fish and I’d still
Jump his bones! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like"
Oh god no.. and I am definitely nkt saying all pretty are mean or nasty or stuck up themselves at all. BUT looks arent everything |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I remember once being told by someone after they had seen my partner "oooo you've done well there". I don't think she meant anything by it, but it really stuck with me, and even now, years later I still, think what exactly did she mean by that!
Do you know how intake that?? Wow your partner is hot. Id never be able to get someone like that I'm just not self confident enough.. a backhanded compliment I guess.."
Yeah let's go with that  |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like
Oh god no.. and I am definitely nkt saying all pretty are mean or nasty or stuck up themselves at all. BUT looks arent everything"
But they are the initial attraction and massively important. |
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"Oh for sure, but on the flip side most wouldn’t sleep with someone they found ugly even if their personality was amazing.
Looks gets the foot in the door so to speak :D
I’m also pretty sure most would fuck someone with a crap personality if they’re were out of this world stunning. Jason Momoa could have the personality of a wet fish and I’d still
Jump his bones! "
Not me, people who are arrogant rude, selfish, or cruel dont deserve the pleasure |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like"
Ooo I like that, well said. |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Oh for sure, but on the flip side most wouldn’t sleep with someone they found ugly even if their personality was amazing.
Looks gets the foot in the door so to speak :D
I’m also pretty sure most would fuck someone with a crap personality if they’re were out of this world stunning. Jason Momoa could have the personality of a wet fish and I’d still
Jump his bones!
Not me, people who are arrogant rude, selfish, or cruel dont deserve the pleasure"
So you’re saying if someone like Jennifer Laurence (or whoever your fantasy woman is) had the personality of a boot you wouldn’t sleep with them? I find that hard to believe. |
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"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like
Ooo I like that, well said."
I just find it odd that a lot of people say that looks don't matter then use looks to illustrate the point.
In this instance the poster explained what he meant though |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
Well written OP!
It's something that gets up my nose and falls way too close to incel / mysoginistic tropes for my liking.
Much like rating people on a numerical basis. *Shudders* something about it just gives me the ick.
I happen to think my husband and my boyfriend are both gorgeous. Physically and mentally. But I'm also aware that physical attraction is completely subjective. One person's visually beautiful is someone else's unattractive. |
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"Oh for sure, but on the flip side most wouldn’t sleep with someone they found ugly even if their personality was amazing.
Looks gets the foot in the door so to speak :D
I’m also pretty sure most would fuck someone with a crap personality if they’re were out of this world stunning. Jason Momoa could have the personality of a wet fish and I’d still
Jump his bones!
Not me, people who are arrogant rude, selfish, or cruel dont deserve the pleasure
So you’re saying if someone like Jennifer Laurence (or whoever your fantasy woman is) had the personality of a boot you wouldn’t sleep with them? I find that hard to believe."
100% I dont have a fantasy woman thoigh. |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like
Ooo I like that, well said.
I just find it odd that a lot of people say that looks don't matter then use looks to illustrate the point.
In this instance the poster explained what he meant though "
It’s a great point.
I also think people try to be PC and are afraid to say looks are probably the most important factor for fear of being labelled shallow. |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Well written OP!
It's something that gets up my nose and falls way too close to incel / mysoginistic tropes for my liking.
Much like rating people on a numerical basis. *Shudders* something about it just gives me the ick.
I happen to think my husband and my boyfriend are both gorgeous. Physically and mentally. But I'm also aware that physical attraction is completely subjective. One person's visually beautiful is someone else's unattractive. "
Not sure how it’s misogynistic tbh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like
Ooo I like that, well said.
I just find it odd that a lot of people say that looks don't matter then use looks to illustrate the point.
In this instance the poster explained what he meant though
It’s a great point.
I also think people try to be PC and are afraid to say looks are probably the most important factor for fear of being labelled shallow."
I think that's complete nonsense. The reality is some ate driven by looks some aren't whatever their reasons it's personal choice. |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like
Ooo I like that, well said.
I just find it odd that a lot of people say that looks don't matter then use looks to illustrate the point.
In this instance the poster explained what he meant though
It’s a great point.
I also think people try to be PC and are afraid to say looks are probably the most important factor for fear of being labelled shallow.
I think that's complete nonsense. The reality is some ate driven by looks some aren't whatever their reasons it's personal choice. "
And I think that’s nonsense, the joy of opinions i guess.  |
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"Well written OP!
It's something that gets up my nose and falls way too close to incel / mysoginistic tropes for my liking.
Much like rating people on a numerical basis. *Shudders* something about it just gives me the ick.
I happen to think my husband and my boyfriend are both gorgeous. Physically and mentally. But I'm also aware that physical attraction is completely subjective. One person's visually beautiful is someone else's unattractive.
Not sure how it’s misogynistic tbh."
I mean, women say similar as well. |
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"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like
Ooo I like that, well said.
I just find it odd that a lot of people say that looks don't matter then use looks to illustrate the point.
In this instance the poster explained what he meant though
It’s a great point.
I also think people try to be PC and are afraid to say looks are probably the most important factor for fear of being labelled shallow."
I think there are mixed views and it can become quite confusing.
It would be a sad world if we couldn't appreciate physical beauty in a person for it's own sake without needing to tear the person down.
|
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"It seems like your friend see you similar to them just because they'd probably have no chance neither would you so slightly jealous I'd laugh in their face "
i did.
I just said, ask her whos punching.
Yeah he has low self esteem and was always jealous of his mates that had relationships. which is probably why he has held onto this toxic one so long, sadly. |
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I get this a lot on here with guys saying I'm lucky to have Flik as a partner so now I just respond with something like "she's lucky to have me" or "she's not too shabby" just to see if they have anything coherent to back up their statement.....nothing so far. |
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"Mr R takes it as banter, however I suppose if the intention to it doesn't come across as banter from some people then it can be offensive"
It was simply every single woman i dated or was seeing, I was punching, you know |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"Well written OP!
It's something that gets up my nose and falls way too close to incel / mysoginistic tropes for my liking.
Much like rating people on a numerical basis. *Shudders* something about it just gives me the ick.
I happen to think my husband and my boyfriend are both gorgeous. Physically and mentally. But I'm also aware that physical attraction is completely subjective. One person's visually beautiful is someone else's unattractive.
Not sure how it’s misogynistic tbh.
I mean, women say similar as well."
Women do indeed, doesn't mean that can't be traced back to the possession of women as property...
Many societal structures and pressures (on men and women) have roots in patriarchal thinking. This is often the problem we have with seemingly ever present mountain face of equality (or my preference, equity).
I could go into much more detail but that would involve me digging out my dissertation and thesis and honestly not sure I want to go through the trauma of finding them haha! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Looks DEFINITELY matter.
As an initial attraction sure.. but you can quickly see ugly in beauty
I think an ugly personality doesn't depend on what a person looks like
Ooo I like that, well said.
I just find it odd that a lot of people say that looks don't matter then use looks to illustrate the point.
In this instance the poster explained what he meant though
It’s a great point.
I also think people try to be PC and are afraid to say looks are probably the most important factor for fear of being labelled shallow.
I think that's complete nonsense. The reality is some ate driven by looks some aren't whatever their reasons it's personal choice.
And I think that’s nonsense, the joy of opinions i guess. "
Indeed indeed, it's what keeps us coming back to the forums  |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Women do indeed, doesn't mean that can't be traced back to the possession of women as property...
Many societal structures and pressures (on men and women) have roots in patriarchal thinking. This is often the problem we have with seemingly ever present mountain face of equality (or my preference, equity).
I could go into much more detail but that would involve me digging out my dissertation and thesis and honestly not sure I want to go through the trauma of finding them haha! "
Fortunately we don’t live in a patriarchal society in the U.K.
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Indeed indeed, it's what keeps us coming back to the forums "
Exactly that! High five for an adult debate without it descending to chaos! You’re definitely the sort of chap we’d get on with despite clearly differing opinions.
Sending the best vibes! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Indeed indeed, it's what keeps us coming back to the forums
Exactly that! High five for an adult debate without it descending to chaos! You’re definitely the sort of chap we’d get on with despite clearly differing opinions.
Sending the best vibes! "
The art of debate, the cornerstone of forming our society and the rules by which it survices lives on.. hurrah.
Even a Monday offers promise.
Nice one guys. You know where to find me  |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"Women do indeed, doesn't mean that can't be traced back to the possession of women as property...
Many societal structures and pressures (on men and women) have roots in patriarchal thinking. This is often the problem we have with seemingly ever present mountain face of equality (or my preference, equity).
I could go into much more detail but that would involve me digging out my dissertation and thesis and honestly not sure I want to go through the trauma of finding them haha!
Fortunately we don’t live in a patriarchal society in the U.K.
"
Except we do, and while (as I said) equality is something we are definitely getting closer to, the long lasting implications of patriarchy are still in place pretty much every day... Much like the fact (as I state on my profile) feminism is still required it really is...
In the UK a woman couldn't open a bank account in her own name till 1975... an account had to be in her husbands, or her fathers name.
That in and of itself provides the basis for subconscious bias... Which as an example, I encountered last time I went to buy a car...
I was asked repeatedly if I wanted to come back with my husband (or my dad) to check it 'was the right car' or that I 'wasnt making a mistake with refusing any extended warranties' given the size of the purchase.
It was my money, I was buying the car I wanted and had researched. My husband didn't even drive at the time I bought it and even though he now does he couldn't give a shit about cars as long as it gets him from a to b.
But repeatedly it was suggested I needed approval or a second opinion on how I spent my money. (in actual fact I walked out and bought the car from another place in the end.
Same goes with STEM subjects... Working in the field there are many times I'm asked if someone can speak to 'someone more senior' before they even know my level of understanding or area of expertise.
I was actively discouraged by lecturers at college from pursuing a STEM subject at university (this was in the 90's), I did STEM by stealth (technically my degrees are in arts subjects, but focusing on technology). |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"Women do indeed, doesn't mean that can't be traced back to the possession of women as property...
Many societal structures and pressures (on men and women) have roots in patriarchal thinking. This is often the problem we have with seemingly ever present mountain face of equality (or my preference, equity).
I could go into much more detail but that would involve me digging out my dissertation and thesis and honestly not sure I want to go through the trauma of finding them haha!
Fortunately we don’t live in a patriarchal society in the U.K.
Except we do, and while (as I said) equality is something we are definitely getting closer to, the long lasting implications of patriarchy are still in place pretty much every day... Much like the fact (as I state on my profile) feminism is still required it really is...
In the UK a woman couldn't open a bank account in her own name till 1975... an account had to be in her husbands, or her fathers name.
That in and of itself provides the basis for subconscious bias... Which as an example, I encountered last time I went to buy a car...
I was asked repeatedly if I wanted to come back with my husband (or my dad) to check it 'was the right car' or that I 'wasnt making a mistake with refusing any extended warranties' given the size of the purchase.
It was my money, I was buying the car I wanted and had researched. My husband didn't even drive at the time I bought it and even though he now does he couldn't give a shit about cars as long as it gets him from a to b.
But repeatedly it was suggested I needed approval or a second opinion on how I spent my money. (in actual fact I walked out and bought the car from another place in the end.
Same goes with STEM subjects... Working in the field there are many times I'm asked if someone can speak to 'someone more senior' before they even know my level of understanding or area of expertise.
I was actively discouraged by lecturers at college from pursuing a STEM subject at university (this was in the 90's), I did STEM by stealth (technically my degrees are in arts subjects, but focusing on technology). "
We can agree to disagree as imo we definitely do NOT live in a patriarchy in the U.K.
The examples you’ve given are subjective and experiences you’ve personally been through.
Can see it’s not something we’re ever going to agree on so probably best left there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have never understood the whole league thing but my last relationship, he said and a couple of others that I was out of his league  people tried explaining it all to me. I still don't understand and still think he is the most beautiful man in every way even though it didn't work out for us!
I've literally never understood it and happily never will! |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I have never understood the whole league thing but my last relationship, he said and a couple of others that I was out of his league people tried explaining it all to me. I still don't understand and still think he is the most beautiful man in every way even though it didn't work out for us!
I've literally never understood it and happily never will! "
He was trying to compliment you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Women do indeed, doesn't mean that can't be traced back to the possession of women as property...
Many societal structures and pressures (on men and women) have roots in patriarchal thinking. This is often the problem we have with seemingly ever present mountain face of equality (or my preference, equity).
I could go into much more detail but that would involve me digging out my dissertation and thesis and honestly not sure I want to go through the trauma of finding them haha!
Fortunately we don’t live in a patriarchal society in the U.K.
Except we do, and while (as I said) equality is something we are definitely getting closer to, the long lasting implications of patriarchy are still in place pretty much every day... Much like the fact (as I state on my profile) feminism is still required it really is...
In the UK a woman couldn't open a bank account in her own name till 1975... an account had to be in her husbands, or her fathers name.
That in and of itself provides the basis for subconscious bias... Which as an example, I encountered last time I went to buy a car...
I was asked repeatedly if I wanted to come back with my husband (or my dad) to check it 'was the right car' or that I 'wasnt making a mistake with refusing any extended warranties' given the size of the purchase.
It was my money, I was buying the car I wanted and had researched. My husband didn't even drive at the time I bought it and even though he now does he couldn't give a shit about cars as long as it gets him from a to b.
But repeatedly it was suggested I needed approval or a second opinion on how I spent my money. (in actual fact I walked out and bought the car from another place in the end.
Same goes with STEM subjects... Working in the field there are many times I'm asked if someone can speak to 'someone more senior' before they even know my level of understanding or area of expertise.
I was actively discouraged by lecturers at college from pursuing a STEM subject at university (this was in the 90's), I did STEM by stealth (technically my degrees are in arts subjects, but focusing on technology).
We can agree to disagree as imo we definitely do NOT live in a patriarchy in the U.K.
The examples you’ve given are subjective and experiences you’ve personally been through.
Can see it’s not something we’re ever going to agree on so probably best left there. "
This is absolutely quality who'd have thought this is where it woukd go.
We are nowhere near equality although really it's equity we should be striving for.
We still teach our daughters to walk home with a key between her fingers after a night out rather than teaching our sons how to be good men with good intentions. Thats messed up.
But let me caveat this (and I am what is classed as an ally) what we mustn't allow to happen is shift from patriarchy which the workd has been built on mkt just, here to one of matriarchy. I've seen it in workplaces that have shifted entire management board to reflect the current trends. Equally as dangerous. |
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I (Dave) literally got told this to my face by a very d*unk woman at a party when I was stood with my wife. But I agreed with her and then said “I agree with you, but while I may be punching, you’re here alone, and I’m enjoying my night with my beautiful wife”. She was d*unk and rude but I kept my tone polite. I don’t care about what people say. If they want to be around me or play with me, great, if they don’t, fine. My life is enjoyable and fun and I don’t take much notice of what negative people say.
If you’re not someone’s type, you’re not someone’s type, but suggesting that X person should only be with X type of person is short sighted. Sure, we all have things that physically attract us to others, but beyond that, a bad attitude can destroy any attractiveness someone may have.
For the record, the girl was not exactly what I’d call a 10 either. But I’d never have even thought to talk about her physical appearance. I just took her on her personality. And that was definitely a 1. |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
This is absolutely quality who'd have thought this is where it woukd go.
We are nowhere near equality although really it's equity we should be striving for.
We still teach our daughters to walk home with a key between her fingers after a night out rather than teaching our sons how to be good men with good intentions. Thats messed up.
But let me caveat this (and I am what is classed as an ally) what we mustn't allow to happen is shift from patriarchy which the workd has been built on mkt just, here to one of matriarchy. I've seen it in workplaces that have shifted entire management board to reflect the current trends. Equally as dangerous."
What do you mean by equity though? I think everyone should be given equal opportunities (and for the most part we do here).
Surely teaching your daughter that is just common sense?
The whole “woke” mentality at the minute is damn frustrating. |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I (Dave) literally got told this to my face by a very d*unk woman at a party when I was stood with my wife. But I agreed with her and then said “I agree with you, but while I may be punching, you’re here alone, and I’m enjoying my night with my beautiful wife”. She was d*unk and rude but I kept my tone polite. I don’t care about what people say. If they want to be around me or play with me, great, if they don’t, fine. My life is enjoyable and fun and I don’t take much notice of what negative people say.
If you’re not someone’s type, you’re not someone’s type, but suggesting that X person should only be with X type of person is short sighted. Sure, we all have things that physically attract us to others, but beyond that, a bad attitude can destroy any attractiveness someone may have.
For the record, the girl was not exactly what I’d call a 10 either. But I’d never have even thought to talk about her physical appearance. I just took her on her personality. And that was definitely a 1."
Should have said you rated her a 1, the outcome would be brilliant. |
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I don't really read too much into it. I tell my partner all time that I think I'm punching with him, purely because I think he is much more physically attractive than I am
It's nothing to do with personality or other traits in my opinion, just physical attractiveness  |
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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago
Northampton |
"I don't really read too much into it. I tell my partner all time that I think I'm punching with him, purely because I think he is much more physically attractive than I am
It's nothing to do with personality or other traits in my opinion, just physical attractiveness "
Yea I think that’s what most mean when it’s said.
People reading too much into it I guess. |
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"I (Dave) literally got told this to my face by a very d*unk woman at a party when I was stood with my wife. But I agreed with her and then said “I agree with you, but while I may be punching, you’re here alone, and I’m enjoying my night with my beautiful wife”. She was d*unk and rude but I kept my tone polite. I don’t care about what people say. If they want to be around me or play with me, great, if they don’t, fine. My life is enjoyable and fun and I don’t take much notice of what negative people say.
If you’re not someone’s type, you’re not someone’s type, but suggesting that X person should only be with X type of person is short sighted. Sure, we all have things that physically attract us to others, but beyond that, a bad attitude can destroy any attractiveness someone may have.
For the record, the girl was not exactly what I’d call a 10 either. But I’d never have even thought to talk about her physical appearance. I just took her on her personality. And that was definitely a 1."
ok, you're my kind of people for sure. |
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
"It seems like your friend see you similar to them just because they'd probably have no chance neither would you so slightly jealous I'd laugh in their face
i did.
I just said, ask her whos punching.
Yeah he has low self esteem and was always jealous of his mates that had relationships. which is probably why he has held onto this toxic one so long, sadly."
Their is a positive way to look at it because the fact they are with you speaks volumes so someone sees something not another may or never plucked the courage to ask  |
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