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People you think are out of your league?? X

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By *ilthyGentleman OP   Man  over a year ago

round your way

If someone messages you and you think they are too hot for you, do you reply or do you not in case they reject you when they see more?? Interested to hear your thoughts xx

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By *odgerMooreMan  over a year ago

Nowhere

Not all about physical aspects - so I’d see where it goes

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By *inkysexpotMan  over a year ago

leeds

If someone has taken the time to get in touch I always reply even if I think they are out of my league, you never know what could happen

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By *hatCoupleNextDoorCouple  over a year ago

nearby

interesting question! has happened to us on a few occasions but we tend to reply, ya never know what might come of it!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Not come across any profiles like that yet

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By *dwalu2Couple  over a year ago

Bristol

If they are out of your league why have they messaged you?

There are no leagues.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Normally assume they’re fake

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

'League' on here is only your perception of it. Based on looks? Sure thats only genetics or time spent on self-care.

Gather up your confidence and get to know the person before you decide anything.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Tend to think everbody out of my league and age range again it’s personal choice only hear for forums these days

Some lovely lady’s and gentlemen on hear brings a smile to my day

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By *orny DeucesCouple  over a year ago

Mansfield

Cum on the spot usually. Then compose oneself and reply politely and hope not to f**k it up

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By *ean counterMan  over a year ago

Market Harborough/ Kettering

I think most women must be out of my league

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By *ilthyGentleman OP   Man  over a year ago

round your way

Ha ha ha ha good answer x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Even if they’re out of your league, you may still get to play in a cup tie?!

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By *aughtywifeandhimCouple  over a year ago

bedford

Always reply , nothing to lose , and if fun follows a big boost in confidence can be had

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By *ady CurvaceousWoman  over a year ago

Kent

I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

There are a couple of things I learnt over the years...

If you think a woman is out of your league, then you're doing her thinking for her and that's not your job.

In the 'real world', a lot of very attractive women never get approached -- men often assume she's out of their league, get intimidated and don't even try.

This may result in women undervaluing their looks, which then goes back to point one -- So, don't make assumptions.

(NB, I really don't put this into practice enough, because I'm still basically a wuss )

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By *eniandMikeCouple  over a year ago

Edinburgh


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me. "

We get this a lot also!!!

Jeni just doesn’t feel comfortable with guys or woman that are “out of our league” makes her feel very self conscious!

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By *ormalguy71Man  over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me. "

You do know this goes both ways right? The times I have seen your updates on my feed and looked at you and just been wow she is way out of your league mate.

Well let's just say if I had a pound for everything,e I've viewed you.

Never once had the guts to message you.

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By *ady CurvaceousWoman  over a year ago

Kent


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me.

We get this a lot also!!!

Jeni just doesn’t feel comfortable with guys or woman that are “out of our league” makes her feel very self conscious!"

Exactly this. Even if we met I'd be really self conscious of my flab slapping his 6 pack or the view from certain angles causing the poor guy to vomit.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I’d not think they are out of my lge . I would just go with it Anywah

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By *ady CurvaceousWoman  over a year ago

Kent


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me.

You do know this goes both ways right? The times I have seen your updates on my feed and looked at you and just been wow she is way out of your league mate.

Well let's just say if I had a pound for everything,e I've viewed you.

Never once had the guts to message you. "

You're actually joking right? Why would anyone not have the guts to message me? I'm nearly 50, i have grey hairs, wrinkles and a gut like a bouncy castle with 10 kids on it. I'm so far away from anything even remotely resembling a league. I just stick my pics up and hope today is the day I don't get an abusive fat shaming message.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We think most are out of our league...but we still chat and hope

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By *odgerMooreMan  over a year ago

Nowhere


"Not come across any profiles like that yet "
im sooo out of your league…. At the bottom sadly!!

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By *icecouple561Couple  over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

If someone messages us I assume they are attracted to us. Why would I doubt it?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Exactly this. Even if we met I'd be really self conscious of my flab slapping his 6 pack or the view from certain angles causing the poor guy to vomit. "

The reply I wrote above, regarding making assumptions about hot women, well it applies to men too.

Just because some guy has a perfectly chiseled torso, doesn't mean he wants the same in a partner.

I'm older now, but when I was in my twenties I was a qualified fitness instructor, kickboxer and gym freak -- I still liked curvy women, and I never ever judged any women or looked at any woman as lesser as a result.

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By *omblingFreeCouple  over a year ago

The Village


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me. "

That sounds like a pragmatic and sensible approach.Going by your profile, you seem to have much humour, wit and warmth. Looking at your pics, you also seem to have tons of natural sex appeal too. Never say never

Mr

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By *ormalguy71Man  over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me.

You do know this goes both ways right? The times I have seen your updates on my feed and looked at you and just been wow she is way out of your league mate.

Well let's just say if I had a pound for everything,e I've viewed you.

Never once had the guts to message you.

You're actually joking right? Why would anyone not have the guts to message me? I'm nearly 50, i have grey hairs, wrinkles and a gut like a bouncy castle with 10 kids on it. I'm so far away from anything even remotely resembling a league. I just stick my pics up and hope today is the day I don't get an abusive fat shaming message."

Absolutely not, 100% genuine. From my experience of viewing you and your updates you come across as someone very confident, you say fat shaming but from what I see it's an hourglass figure and to a lot of men that is a huge turn on. So yes from me, we'll out of my league.

I may however now pluck up the courage one day lol xx

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By *hropshireGentMan  over a year ago

Shropshire

I haven’t found anyone yet

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me.

We get this a lot also!!!

Jeni just doesn’t feel comfortable with guys or woman that are “out of our league” makes her feel very self conscious!

Exactly this. Even if we met I'd be really self conscious of my flab slapping his 6 pack or the view from certain angles causing the poor guy to vomit. "

Why be so nasty about your body? If a man messages you he's seen your body and he likes what he sees. I'm sorry you receive horrible messages from some guys.

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By *lym4realCouple  over a year ago

plymouth

Sad if you think anyone is out of your "League" and even sadder are the people who think they are way to "Sexy/Good looking" (or imlpy that they) are for the so called "Average" fab memember and we can't think of anything worse than actually having to meet anyone like that and plus the so called "Xfactor" isn't just physical it's whole load of different factors and Mrs4 likes to be mentally stimulated before being stimulated other ways ! and we know we a bit over the hill and makes noise now when we sit down or get up so that rules out the younger types apart from that no one is out of our collective league

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By *heGigglersCouple  over a year ago

Stourbridge (West-Mids)


"Cum on the spot usually. Then compose oneself and reply politely and hope not to f**k it up"

Something similar to this for us too, though I wouldn't reply until I had had a good look at the photos, profile and veris to try to assure myself we aren't being catfished!

I would also tend to stick to meeting in a club so if it doesn't work out the night isn't a bust.

I know we are nowhere near the "hottest" people in the club, but we are friendly, fun and no drama so we tend to do better in a social setting than we do just exchanging photos and messages.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


" Sad if you think anyone is out of your "League" and even sadder are the people who think they are way to "Sexy/Good looking" (or imlpy that they) are for the so called "Average" fab memember and we can't think of anything worse than actually having to meet anyone like that and plus the so called "Xfactor" isn't just physical it's whole load of different factors and Mrs4 likes to be mentally stimulated before being stimulated other ways ! and we know we a bit over the hill and makes noise now when we sit down or get up so that rules out the younger types apart from that no one is out of our collective league "

Totally agree. It’s about the whole package not just the box it comes in

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"If someone messages us I assume they are attracted to us. Why would I doubt it? "

Exactly

Well, that or desperate

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"If someone messages us I assume they are attracted to us. Why would I doubt it?

Exactly

Well, that or desperate "

Definitely not the latter. Great profile

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"If someone messages us I assume they are attracted to us. Why would I doubt it?

Exactly

Well, that or desperate

Definitely not the latter. Great profile"

Thank you

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By *icecouple561Couple  over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex


"If someone messages us I assume they are attracted to us. Why would I doubt it?

Exactly

Well, that or desperate "

I doubt that in your case.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Horses for courses ain't it

Often we see far more of a person's body on here than we ever would in day-to-day life. So if it's caught their eye then what's the problem? Add in nobody wants to shag someone with the body of a god and the personality of a potato. So what's the harm in chatting to see if there's a click?

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By *arriedcoupleNECouple  over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

Absolutely no issue replying to a message from someone who we may have considered out of our league. If they're messaging first then they clearly didn't feel the same.

Being the first to message, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

For years I'd assume men out of my "salad dodger" league were messaging me to be friendly. On kink sites usually. Yes, I am (was) a naive dingbat.

I assumed that good looking guys much younger than me couldn't possibly be interested in me.

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By *etcplCouple  over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

I’m not a big fan of leagues, and think its more about people being compatible or into the same things.

I’d message back and see where it went.

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By *etwifeandhim69Couple  over a year ago

Darlington

If they messaged us, wouldn't have an issue at all. When we message someone, it's on the assumption we may be of interest to them. The worst anyone can say is "no". Don't do this "league" thing.

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By *ussieChrisMan  over a year ago

Walsall

If they have messaged me, I'll give it a shot..

I message when I come across them normally, so why not if they message me...

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I message back. Who's to say they don't think they're out of my league, but braved a message because they like what they saw?

I have met with people who I think; in the non-swinging world, could think they're out of my league, but we get on so well that I'm glad I replied to them.

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS  over a year ago

Bristol

I wonder what scam this bot is trying to pull.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

With a good preparation no one is out of league unless that person belongs to the dark side of humanity !

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By *ig_eric_tionMan  over a year ago

IPSWICH

I reply to messages from anyone when I get them.

Ive never considerd ladies might think I'm out of their league. This could explain why I get very few, if any replies.

Probably not though.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I reply to messages from anyone when I get them.

Ive never considerd ladies might think I'm out of their league. This could explain why I get very few, if any replies.

Probably not though. "

I would have thought everyone would reply to you. You've a great profile and amazing photos

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By *awty_MissDynomiteNo1Woman  over a year ago

No idea, I'm lost. Damn Sat nav!


"If someone messages you and you think they are too hot for you, do you reply or do you not in case they reject you when they see more?? Interested to hear your thoughts xx"
no such thing as out of anyones league only those who think they are .

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By *ig_eric_tionMan  over a year ago

IPSWICH


"I reply to messages from anyone when I get them.

Ive never considerd ladies might think I'm out of their league. This could explain why I get very few, if any replies.

Probably not though.

I would have thought everyone would reply to you. You've a great profile and amazing photos"

Thank you. But unfortunately that's not the case. I do aim to please.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"If someone messages you and you think they are too hot for you, do you reply or do you not in case they reject you when they see more?? Interested to hear your thoughts xxno such thing as out of anyones league only those who think they are . "

Which is all it ever is… confidence. Not enough or too much

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By *3rial Thr1LL3rMan  over a year ago

scotland


"If someone messages you and you think they are too hot for you, do you reply or do you not in case they reject you when they see more?? Interested to hear your thoughts xx"

If someone messaged me on here that I thought was out of my league I’d pursue it as they’ve obviously seen something they like before they’ve taken the time to send a message. On the other hand though I’d be very unlikely to send a message first to someone I thought was out of my league

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By *UNKIEMan  over a year ago

south east

I have always replied to any messages i have received but i do get where you're coming from ..in the past there have been ladies ive thought "no way she would be interested in me " therefore only admired from a distance ..however 1 day received a message from 1 of said ladies ,got chatting and a few weeks later we were having an amazing night of fun , also met a few at socials got chatting and wow same thing so nowadays i dont believe in leagues , i believe in chatting and seeing if there is a spark ..if so great if not no harm done

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By *ittyandtheboyCouple  over a year ago

Behind the bike shed!

We’ve found that people we think are out of our league sometimes approach us. Which is a massive confidence boost!

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By *Vbi47Man  over a year ago

Wolverhampton

I sometimes think they do it out of boredom

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"If someone messages you and you think they are too hot for you, do you reply or do you not in case they reject you when they see more?? Interested to hear your thoughts xx"

I don’t believe in leagues we all have different attractions. If someone messages me with interest then I’d reply and see what happens

Same if I message someone

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By *awty_MissDynomiteNo1Woman  over a year ago

No idea, I'm lost. Damn Sat nav!


"If someone messages you and you think they are too hot for you, do you reply or do you not in case they reject you when they see more?? Interested to hear your thoughts xxno such thing as out of anyones league only those who think they are .

Which is all it ever is… confidence. Not enough or too much "

Exactly this !

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I dont assume im fancied by anyone no matter how hot they are i respond to anyone as i like having a laugh if we end up naked one day then all the better at this point laughs are my priority

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I'd reply and chat. But actually I don't tend to fancy people 'out of my league.' So there's a good chance it wouldn't go any further due to this.

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By *ickdasterdly51Man  over a year ago

Lingfield

I've got a couple interested in meeting who seem well out of my league, wealthy and glamorous. I'm struggling to thibk what they see in a 62 year old slightly overweight and balding man. Maybe I'm too suspicious of everyone and need to take a chance

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me.

We get this a lot also!!!

Jeni just doesn’t feel comfortable with guys or woman that are “out of our league” makes her feel very self conscious!

Exactly this. Even if we met I'd be really self conscious of my flab slapping his 6 pack or the view from certain angles causing the poor guy to vomit. "

Why?

Your profile pictures clearly show your body type. Any man contacting you obviously likes your body.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Wouldn’t stop me! I don’t quantify people this way!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Regardless of anything I'd always take the time to reply to people, appreciate others get many more messages than me so possibly not manageable but I always like to give a response, if they're out of my league and they've messaged then tbh nothing to lose, plus whilst I don't pretend to be the best looking here I must have some interest if they've messaged me first

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Regardless of anything I'd always take the time to reply to people, appreciate others get many more messages than me so possibly not manageable but I always like to give a response, if they're out of my league and they've messaged then tbh nothing to lose, plus whilst I don't pretend to be the best looking here I must have some interest if they've messaged me first "

Also I find, at least for me, it isn't always about looks but about being able to actually chat too

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By *parkle1974Woman  over a year ago

Leeds

No-one is out of anyone's league. Anyone who thinks that need to give their head a wobble and have a good hard look at themselves x

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By *ock_the_dadbodMan  over a year ago

Birmingham


"I get so many guys 10 or 20 years younger, six pack, good looking etc who are way out of my league. And I tell them so. Not going to waste my time arranging a meet with someone who looks like that as I'd either be humiliated when they see me and walk away, or they will probably cancel at the last minute when they get a better offer from a woman who is actually their type and they no longer need to scrape the barrel with me.

You do know this goes both ways right? The times I have seen your updates on my feed and looked at you and just been wow she is way out of your league mate.

Well let's just say if I had a pound for everything,e I've viewed you.

Never once had the guts to message you.

You're actually joking right? Why would anyone not have the guts to message me? I'm nearly 50, i have grey hairs, wrinkles and a gut like a bouncy castle with 10 kids on it. I'm so far away from anything even remotely resembling a league. I just stick my pics up and hope today is the day I don't get an abusive fat shaming message."

If I was anywhere near Kent I'd be straight in your inbox as you are exactly my type!

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By *ady CurvaceousWoman  over a year ago

Kent

Alas today is not the day that I don't get an abusive message. Sigh. Another twat reported and blocked.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Not sure I think they are out of my league, more like I’m not their type!

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By *tagmeupMan  over a year ago

wirral

I think i do much better in the real world as there are not 1000 people a week messaging them

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By *uzie69xTV/TS  over a year ago

Maidstone


"I’d not think they are out of my lge . I would just go with it Anywah "

This (minus the typos)...

I pursue them like I would normally and have ended up in bed with them...

However... And this is my point...

Some have turned out super disappointing! They just seem to lie back and expect you to do all the work ...

Pppfffttt....

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By *ad boy maverickMan  over a year ago

basildon


"If someone messages you and you think they are too hot for you, do you reply or do you not in case they reject you when they see more?? Interested to hear your thoughts xx"

Be less of a thinking man and more a fool who's not afraid of rejection ( Billy Joel)

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By *uminsiderMKMan  over a year ago

St Austell

I've had some great meets over the years with ladies and couples who I'd have classed as 'out of my league' - by which I mean they could pretty much have any guy that they wanted...

....if they've approached me, then it's (hopefully) because they like what they've read and/or seen - so yes, I'd reply...

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I always reply thanks for your message but I've currently met someone and wish them luck. I'd be way to self conscious with a fit man and reckon he would soon leg it when he sees me in reality. That's way more rejection then I'm prepared for.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"No-one is out of anyone's league. Anyone who thinks that need to give their head a wobble and have a good hard look at themselves x"

I think it's when we do look at ourselves that we think that, to be fair.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I don’t reply to majority of messages… for this very reason. Wish I had more confidence!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I don’t reply to majority of messages… for this very reason. Wish I had more confidence! "

Don’t get in your own way. Reply to what you like, you’ve absolutely nothing to worry about. They’ll be delighted to hear from you x

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By *lex.and.SexCouple  over a year ago

Bedale

Assume they are fake.

We do reply when that happens, but we categorise them as being a high risk of flaking

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Still reply, wouldn't want a lost opportunity

Miss S x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Still reply, wouldn't want a lost opportunity

Miss S x"

Exactly this

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

You either want em or dont

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"There are a couple of things I learnt over the years...

If you think a woman is out of your league, then you're doing her thinking for her and that's not your job.

In the 'real world', a lot of very attractive women never get approached -- men often assume she's out of their league, get intimidated and don't even try.

This may result in women undervaluing their looks, which then goes back to point one -- So, don't make assumptions.

(NB, I really don't put this into practice enough, because I'm still basically a wuss )"

This is a great answer and very true

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Still reply, wouldn't want a lost opportunity

Miss S x

Exactly this "

I’ll always reply to every message I get sent

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By *ob.42Man  over a year ago

Near Yarmouth

*Checks profile*

*Yep, still single male*

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

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By *o scandalousWoman  over a year ago

Glasgow

If I get a message from someone I think is too hot I’ll usually say I’m probably not what they are looking for but thank them for their message.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

The only people who ever message me seem to mostly be single males… which I’m just not looking for.

In the rare case of a single female containing me first I’m not sure how I’ll handle that level of shock!

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By *iromancergirl1Woman  over a year ago

bolton

In person at a club or in a bar I’m very confident and comfortable in myself but on here no I’m just not and I quite often think there is no way they will be in to me.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We are overweight for the want of a better word. People who are slim would make us feel very self conscious. We tend not to meet them. We need to feel comfortable.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman  over a year ago

Reading

I get very confused when young hottest message me.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"If someone messages you and you think they are too hot for you, do you reply or do you not in case they reject you when they see more?? Interested to hear your thoughts xx"

I try and keep an open mind, you never know who you are going to click with

F (Mrs)

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By *ighlander81Man  over a year ago

Hamilton

Everyone

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By *ong-leggedblondWoman  over a year ago

Next Door

I don't if I receive message/pictures from them 1st.

I do think that when I message with pictures 1st.

Insecurities get the better of me often

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I don't if I receive message/pictures from them 1st.

I do think that when I message with pictures 1st.

Insecurities get the better of me often"

It’s definitely a more uncertain or tentative feeling when you’re the first to message. Especially if you are really attracted to them

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I don't if I receive message/pictures from them 1st.

I do think that when I message with pictures 1st.

Insecurities get the better of me often"

You're someone many men mention on here as someone they fancy and I can totally understand why. Insecurities are a bastard aren't they?!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Because they look good doesn't mean they have good taste

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By *ong-leggedblondWoman  over a year ago

Next Door


"I don't if I receive message/pictures from them 1st.

I do think that when I message with pictures 1st.

Insecurities get the better of me often

You're someone many men mention on here as someone they fancy and I can totally understand why. Insecurities are a bastard aren't they?!"

Thank you, a lovely message to read.

I'm not popular and never want to be.

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By *ance1502Man  over a year ago

London

I've never met or spoke to anyone who I feel is above me/ out of my league. Not physically, mentally, aesthetically nothing.

If you've felt like that maybe you need a confidence boost.

I mean that in the kindest way possible

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By *678Man  over a year ago

Surrey

Always fear the worst when this happens, but I’d rather that, than ignore them.

Worst thing someone can say is no thanks.

Think we can all live with that, and move on..

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By *rNightMan  over a year ago

Coventry

I’ll let you know when it happens lol

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