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Dominant/Submissive
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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make sure they are considerate of you, i think that's a good tip. like they care about what you can offer them but are also interested in what they offer you and that you're both compatible.
i find not many submissives compatible with my needs at all and not interested in what i want. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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totally.
i'm sure there will be more experienced with more advice but that is what i focus on firstly. if i ever find someone i'm compatible with i'm not even sure what to do with them any more. 
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
read alot, go to munches and talk and listen a lot, go on the kink site and get chatting and reading as much as you can..
mostly, once you know who you are, as a sub, you will know more about the exact type of dom, you are looking for and then it makes him easier to find.
its a journey of self exploration first..enjoy the journey x |
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By *aisyDDWoman
over a year ago
North West |
Good luck, it's a tricky road. You'll know by chatting to them exactly what they are about. Some will bore you and others will get your attention.
You'll no doubt piss plenty of them off but stick to your guns and find someone you are comfortable with.
Like other have said talk to more people and find out exactly what you are about so you know better what you are looking for.
Well worth the wait when you find someone you click with xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Get yourself on to get the kink site and read a lot. Then get yourself to some local munches. Once you know what you want then you have more chance of finding a son that fits you. Rough sex isn't what being a don is about. Ultimately a sub has the most control in a d/s relationship. |
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By *lceeWoman
over a year ago
Leeds |
I wouldn't suggest this site as a place to find a Dom, personally.
Hit up your local munches, talk to people in real life, both Dominant and submissive. There are many different types of Dominant and submissive and you have to find what fits you.
Just remember that there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to D/s, just what you and your partner both need, and they need to match.
It took me a long time and several different relationships to figure out what I needed and I now know how to recognise it and seek it out.
You will too - and you'll have great fun doing it! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have found a true Female domme even harder to find.
Almost impossible 
xjxyour profile doesnt say you are looking for one...maybe thats why xx"
Site called fetlife. Will I get wrong for saying ? |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"I have found a true Female domme even harder to find.
Almost impossible
xjxyour profile doesnt say you are looking for one...maybe thats why xx
Site called fetlife. Will I get wrong for saying ?"
probably. im there same name x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have found a true Female domme even harder to find.
Almost impossible
xjxyour profile doesnt say you are looking for one...maybe thats why xx
Site called fetlife. Will I get wrong for saying ?probably. im there same name x"
Yeh am on there too xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it is incredibly difficult for both subs and doms to find a match at the start of their journey. I would suggest it is rare for any first experience or relationship to be perfect and it is only by having a relationship that is not right (does not have to be bad just wrong for you) that you learn, it is called experience . The problem with kink is that a bad relationship can be seriously physically and mentally dangerous. Hence attending well established socials and munches can help to minimise the risk of running into someone destructive.
My view is that you have to do research. Joining fetlife is a start. Doing the bdsm test is a start to understand yourself. Reading pre play checklists is a start to understand what happens on a scene.
If you like rope Evie Vane has her book how to get tied up. Fetlife has submissive only groups which have a lot of information.
I would not be put off meeting someone on this website. The majority of the scene subs I played with I met on Fab. I suspect a number of people have met on Fab. Nor be put off by the rough fucking element if that is part of your submission.
You have to approach it as an interview process, what can they offer you and what can you offer them. For male subs it is even trickier and even more research has to be done as to their type of submission and the kind of Mistresses they want as men outnumber women such that pro dommes can charge £100 an hour upwards.
Therefore if you think finding the right situation on Fab is hard, it is harder in kink. The good news is that it can be done and it can be just simply amazing.
Good luck and a Happy new year to one and all. |
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"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated "
There has been some excellent advice already. To add my own thoughts, a good dominant doesn't try to control or own you from the start, you need to get to know each other as people before you do anything else. Your dominant will be communicative and honest and will encourage questions. A good dominant should be able to provide references or have friends that can speak of positive experiences with them. I personally think a good dominant should be inclusive and not exclusive, shouldn't close you of from the world but allow you to explore the greater kink scene at large.
Anyway, that's my 2 pence worth. Message us if you wish to chat further x |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"I think it is incredibly difficult for both subs and doms to find a match at the start of their journey. I would suggest it is rare for any first experience or relationship to be perfect and it is only by having a relationship that is not right (does not have to be bad just wrong for you) that you learn, it is called experience . The problem with kink is that a bad relationship can be seriously physically and mentally dangerous. Hence attending well established socials and munches can help to minimise the risk of running into someone destructive.
My view is that you have to do research. Joining fetlife is a start. Doing the bdsm test is a start to understand yourself. Reading pre play checklists is a start to understand what happens on a scene.
If you like rope Evie Vane has her book how to get tied up. Fetlife has submissive only groups which have a lot of information.
I would not be put off meeting someone on this website. The majority of the scene subs I played with I met on Fab. I suspect a number of people have met on Fab. Nor be put off by the rough fucking element if that is part of your submission.
You have to approach it as an interview process, what can they offer you and what can you offer them. For male subs it is even trickier and even more research has to be done as to their type of submission and the kind of Mistresses they want as men outnumber women such that pro dommes can charge £100 an hour upwards.
Therefore if you think finding the right situation on Fab is hard, it is harder in kink. The good news is that it can be done and it can be just simply amazing.
Good luck and a Happy new year to one and all."
well said ozzzz xx  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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lol...... probably not on here to be fair. There are 'other' sites for this....... One very good one, where everyone is genuine and people know what they're doing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is lots of very good advice already on this thread. Different subs want different things from Doms and vice versa. Do you know what you really want from a dom? |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"lol...... probably not on here to be fair. There are 'other' sites for this....... One very good one, where everyone is genuine and people know what they're doing "
there are wannabes everywhere..dont mislead the newbies.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd love to find an older femme dommedo you know, what kind of sub you are and what you need?..a pondering question...not a demand from me for information x"
I'd love to find a cougar for a sub/Dom relationship and to maybes be able to switch |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"I'd love to find an older femme dommedo you know, what kind of sub you are and what you need?..a pondering question...not a demand from me for information x
I'd love to find a cougar for a sub/Dom relationship and to maybes be able to switch "
that's not what i asked..think a bit deeper than age and D/s can mean anything..its the components of what makes you a sub or dom that you need to know, to find the right pairing..
sub could be say into 'little' play and the dom could be into corporal..not necessarily impossible but not usually compatible either..
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'd love to find an older femme dommedo you know, what kind of sub you are and what you need?..a pondering question...not a demand from me for information x
I'd love to find a cougar for a sub/Dom relationship and to maybes be able to switch that's not what i asked..think a bit deeper than age and D/s can mean anything..its the components of what makes you a sub or dom that you need to know, to find the right pairing..
sub could be say into 'little' play and the dom could be into corporal..not necessarily impossible but not usually compatible either..
"
Full on domme me/abuse me/slave boy but also to have vanilla fun in relationship mode |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"I'd love to find an older femme dommedo you know, what kind of sub you are and what you need?..a pondering question...not a demand from me for information x
I'd love to find a cougar for a sub/Dom relationship and to maybes be able to switch that's not what i asked..think a bit deeper than age and D/s can mean anything..its the components of what makes you a sub or dom that you need to know, to find the right pairing..
sub could be say into 'little' play and the dom could be into corporal..not necessarily impossible but not usually compatible either..
Full on domme me/abuse me/slave boy but also to have vanilla fun in relationship mode"
noone abuses anyone in BDSM..its all safe sane and consensual and slave boy doesnt equate to having any say over if and when you get anything..vanilla or other wise..im not sure you know what these things you are asking for actually mean..why dont you go research all of your predilections and i promise youll be able to find more about who you want to be and what you need from a domme. at this point all you've told me is that you don't know, what that is, which is fine at this stage, but not helpful to you in finding what you are seeking..go deeper.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd love to find an older femme dommedo you know, what kind of sub you are and what you need?..a pondering question...not a demand from me for information x
I'd love to find a cougar for a sub/Dom relationship and to maybes be able to switch that's not what i asked..think a bit deeper than age and D/s can mean anything..its the components of what makes you a sub or dom that you need to know, to find the right pairing..
sub could be say into 'little' play and the dom could be into corporal..not necessarily impossible but not usually compatible either..
Full on domme me/abuse me/slave boy but also to have vanilla fun in relationship modenoone abuses anyone in BDSM..its all safe sane and consensual and slave boy doesnt equate to having any say over if and when you get anything..vanilla or other wise..im not sure you know what these things you are asking for actually mean..why dont you go research all of your predilections and i promise youll be able to find more about who you want to be and what you need from a domme. at this point all you've told me is that you don't know, what that is, which is fine at this stage, but not helpful to you in finding what you are seeking..go deeper.."
I will do but when I say abuse I meant it in a good way if you get me lol..and me being a slave boy would be about 80/20 of the time but I know it'll be hard to find someone with mutual agreements..I am on f e t l I f e but hardly go on it and only on my phone..but I do kinda know what I want just hard to explain it and find a willing partner |
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I met my last Dom on here so I wouldn't rule out this site. There's a lot of wannabes though! When someone says to me 'I'm dom' I ask what makes them dom, how they are with women, what they like. Even if they are experienced or genuine, its then not that easy to match up specific interests. Look out for someone not asking about your interests or limits or just talking about what they want - red flags!
On my Domme side I get many messages asking me to dom someone but they have no idea what they want or they're just very general. Go to fet nights, see what happens, see if there's something you want to try. Even ask a House Dom/me to give you a demo.
Lots of clubs have plenty of kink nights including townhouse and xtasia. The new HDZ at abfab will have a male and female house dom/me doing demos, see ruberfun and NotForSofties profiles  |
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"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated "
Tip 1 would be to find a fem sub as a mentor. |
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"I think it is incredibly difficult for both subs and doms to find a match at the start of their journey. I would suggest it is rare for any first experience or relationship to be perfect and it is only by having a relationship that is not right (does not have to be bad just wrong for you) that you learn, it is called experience . The problem with kink is that a bad relationship can be seriously physically and mentally dangerous. Hence attending well established socials and munches can help to minimise the risk of running into someone destructive.
My view is that you have to do research. Joining fetlife is a start. Doing the bdsm test is a start to understand yourself. Reading pre play checklists is a start to understand what happens on a scene.
If you like rope Evie Vane has her book how to get tied up. Fetlife has submissive only groups which have a lot of information.
I would not be put off meeting someone on this website. The majority of the scene subs I played with I met on Fab. I suspect a number of people have met on Fab. Nor be put off by the rough fucking element if that is part of your submission.
You have to approach it as an interview process, what can they offer you and what can you offer them. For male subs it is even trickier and even more research has to be done as to their type of submission and the kind of Mistresses they want as men outnumber women such that pro dommes can charge £100 an hour upwards.
Therefore if you think finding the right situation on Fab is hard, it is harder in kink. The good news is that it can be done and it can be just simply amazing.
Good luck and a Happy new year to one and all."
Yep. Rare but not impossible;) |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"I'd love to find an older femme dommedo you know, what kind of sub you are and what you need?..a pondering question...not a demand from me for information x
I'd love to find a cougar for a sub/Dom relationship and to maybes be able to switch that's not what i asked..think a bit deeper than age and D/s can mean anything..its the components of what makes you a sub or dom that you need to know, to find the right pairing..
sub could be say into 'little' play and the dom could be into corporal..not necessarily impossible but not usually compatible either..
Full on domme me/abuse me/slave boy but also to have vanilla fun in relationship modenoone abuses anyone in BDSM..its all safe sane and consensual and slave boy doesnt equate to having any say over if and when you get anything..vanilla or other wise..im not sure you know what these things you are asking for actually mean..why dont you go research all of your predilections and i promise youll be able to find more about who you want to be and what you need from a domme. at this point all you've told me is that you don't know, what that is, which is fine at this stage, but not helpful to you in finding what you are seeking..go deeper..
I will do but when I say abuse I meant it in a good way if you get me lol..and me being a slave boy would be about 80/20 of the time but I know it'll be hard to find someone with mutual agreements..I am on f e t l I f e but hardly go on it and only on my phone..but I do kinda know what I want just hard to explain it and find a willing partner"
its actually not that hard when you can yourself articulate what you want and break it down so that it is clear. Communication and lots of it, starts the whole thing off, but terminology and the meanings for individuals using that terminology, needs, to be on the same page x i do get you, but only when you expand on what you mean.. no good me assuming what, does what for you, is it? im very much a psychological Domme, knowing someone and leading them to know more of themselves.. does it for me x Some people i just know i can Domme and give them what they desire,even if that is stretching me, but, some i know i cant x i always assume i cant, until something clicks...at least thats how its been with me in the past..thankyou for expanding and working with me..hope its helped in some tiny way x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This site is the wrong place to look. Although you may find a diamond in the ruff. But will be hard.
I suggest, just as others have posted before, read about the lifestyle, relationship of D/s. Some people may want to be a Dom or want to be a sub, but it's not as easy as it sound. I feel that You must have a longing to be sub. Your day to day life, sexual encounters should feel empty as you aren't gaining what you really want from them.
True D/s relationships are more than fantasy. So read up about it, munchies, socials, pick the brains of other D/s to be sure it's what you want.
And don't fall for the fake "pull your hair and smack your ass" a true Dom will engage/challenge you mentally, Phsically, spiritually.
Also website that was suggested is a good site, but is becoming filled with the guys that are looking for a quick shag.
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.. |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"This site is the wrong place to look. Although you may find a diamond in the ruff. But will be hard.
I suggest, just as others have posted before, read about the lifestyle, relationship of D/s. Some people may want to be a Dom or want to be a sub, but it's not as easy as it sound. I feel that You must have a longing to be sub. Your day to day life, sexual encounters should feel empty as you aren't gaining what you really want from them.
True D/s relationships are more than fantasy. So read up about it, munchies, socials, pick the brains of other D/s to be sure it's what you want.
And don't fall for the fake "pull your hair and smack your ass" a true Dom will engage/challenge you mentally, Phsically, spiritually.
Also website that was suggested is a good site, but is becoming filled with the guys that are looking for a quick shag.
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.. "
dont keep saying its the 'wrong place to look' what is the matter with you people. there are kinky people here.chasing people away from this site, should be frowned upon heavily. we should be building this community here as part of the site not telling people to go elsewhere ffs.
i found my Dom here all pretty painless really, yes i knew what i was looking for and that's half the battle and chopping out huge communities by saying no one is suitable here for 'you', is just ridiculous..
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Would love to find an experienced Dom myself. Even on the BDSM sites you will come across a load of fakes. The ones with 'sir' or 'master' etc as their username is a huge put off for me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This site is the wrong place to look. Although you may find a diamond in the ruff. But will be hard.
I suggest, just as others have posted before, read about the lifestyle, relationship of D/s. Some people may want to be a Dom or want to be a sub, but it's not as easy as it sound. I feel that You must have a longing to be sub. Your day to day life, sexual encounters should feel empty as you aren't gaining what you really want from them.
True D/s relationships are more than fantasy. So read up about it, munchies, socials, pick the brains of other D/s to be sure it's what you want.
And don't fall for the fake "pull your hair and smack your ass" a true Dom will engage/challenge you mentally, Phsically, spiritually.
Also website that was suggested is a good site, but is becoming filled with the guys that are looking for a quick shag.
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.. dont keep saying its the 'wrong place to look' what is the matter with you people. there are kinky people here.chasing people away from this site, should be frowned upon heavily. we should be building this community here as part of the site not telling people to go elsewhere ffs.
i found my Dom here all pretty painless really, yes i knew what i was looking for and that's half the battle and chopping out huge communities by saying no one is suitable here for 'you', is just ridiculous..
"
I agree as I said earlier most of my kink playmates have been from Fab or swinging events.
I have never wanted a D/S relationship as from the way I dom it would be too much hard work.
Last week I met a lady at Kestrels and it just clicked. She was curious but vanilla and after an intense 48 hours and kink 101 she now wants to be collared.
I am a big fan of fetlife but it is not the promised land of doms.
I also defend the right of bad doms to exist, what is not right for some is right for others. Doms have to start somewhere and despite the bull they do not arrive fully formed. There are no dom or master tests other than the satisfaction of the slave or sub, and there is no imperical measure of submission by which one unit of submission can be measured against another. |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"This site is the wrong place to look. Although you may find a diamond in the ruff. But will be hard.
I suggest, just as others have posted before, read about the lifestyle, relationship of D/s. Some people may want to be a Dom or want to be a sub, but it's not as easy as it sound. I feel that You must have a longing to be sub. Your day to day life, sexual encounters should feel empty as you aren't gaining what you really want from them.
True D/s relationships are more than fantasy. So read up about it, munchies, socials, pick the brains of other D/s to be sure it's what you want.
And don't fall for the fake "pull your hair and smack your ass" a true Dom will engage/challenge you mentally, Phsically, spiritually.
Also website that was suggested is a good site, but is becoming filled with the guys that are looking for a quick shag.
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.. dont keep saying its the 'wrong place to look' what is the matter with you people. there are kinky people here.chasing people away from this site, should be frowned upon heavily. we should be building this community here as part of the site not telling people to go elsewhere ffs.
i found my Dom here all pretty painless really, yes i knew what i was looking for and that's half the battle and chopping out huge communities by saying no one is suitable here for 'you', is just ridiculous..
I agree as I said earlier most of my kink playmates have been from Fab or swinging events.
I have never wanted a D/S relationship as from the way I dom it would be too much hard work.
Last week I met a lady at Kestrels and it just clicked. She was curious but vanilla and after an intense 48 hours and kink 101 she now wants to be collared.
I am a big fan of fetlife but it is not the promised land of doms.
I also defend the right of bad doms to exist, what is not right for some is right for others. Doms have to start somewhere and despite the bull they do not arrive fully formed. There are no dom or master tests other than the satisfaction of the slave or sub, and there is no imperical measure of submission by which one unit of submission can be measured against another. "
well said ozz |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This site is the wrong place to look. Although you may find a diamond in the ruff. But will be hard.
I suggest, just as others have posted before, read about the lifestyle, relationship of D/s. Some people may want to be a Dom or want to be a sub, but it's not as easy as it sound. I feel that You must have a longing to be sub. Your day to day life, sexual encounters should feel empty as you aren't gaining what you really want from them.
True D/s relationships are more than fantasy. So read up about it, munchies, socials, pick the brains of other D/s to be sure it's what you want.
And don't fall for the fake "pull your hair and smack your ass" a true Dom will engage/challenge you mentally, Phsically, spiritually.
Also website that was suggested is a good site, but is becoming filled with the guys that are looking for a quick shag.
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.. dont keep saying its the 'wrong place to look' what is the matter with you people. there are kinky people here.chasing people away from this site, should be frowned upon heavily. we should be building this community here as part of the site not telling people to go elsewhere ffs.
i found my Dom here all pretty painless really, yes i knew what i was looking for and that's half the battle and chopping out huge communities by saying no one is suitable here for 'you', is just ridiculous..
I agree as I said earlier most of my kink playmates have been from Fab or swinging events.
I have never wanted a D/S relationship as from the way I dom it would be too much hard work.
Last week I met a lady at Kestrels and it just clicked. She was curious but vanilla and after an intense 48 hours and kink 101 she now wants to be collared.
I am a big fan of fetlife but it is not the promised land of doms.
I also defend the right of bad doms to exist, what is not right for some is right for others. Doms have to start somewhere and despite the bull they do not arrive fully formed. There are no dom or master tests other than the satisfaction of the slave or sub, and there is no imperical measure of submission by which one unit of submission can be measured against another. "
Completely agree. It's not a one size fits all. It's tailored to suit the people involved. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are lots of doms on fab and I think the other is no better.
For a start the OP should broaden her age range as often a good male Dom is experienced and will be older.
Also a Dom will have a nickname like we all do so don't judge by a name, judge by conversation and the ability to communicate... which is the key attribute of its going to go further... my experience in finding a submissive is that they too find it difficult to communicate effectively and it annoys me when they are so closed and guarded to give up even the simplest of information about themselves.
A good Dom will be patient but is a two way street x |
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"There are lots of doms on fab and I think the other is no better.
For a start the OP should broaden her age range as often a good male Dom is experienced and will be older.
Also a Dom will have a nickname like we all do so don't judge by a name, judge by conversation and the ability to communicate... which is the key attribute of its going to go further... my experience in finding a submissive is that they too find it difficult to communicate effectively and it annoys me when they are so closed and guarded to give up even the simplest of information about themselves.
A good Dom will be patient but is a two way street x"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"read alot, go to munches and talk and listen a lot, go on the kink site and get chatting and reading as much as you can..
mostly, once you know who you are, as a sub, you will know more about the exact type of dom, you are looking for and then it makes him easier to find.
its a journey of self exploration first..enjoy the journey x"
Well said and yes a munch is the best way to interact with like minded kinksters. Also you will meet proper Doms. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There are many experienced Doms/es on this site as well as the most common Fet site.
Most Doms will have an experience of years rather than months as well as having a special talent in one field and will always be learning new things. Trust is important and I've done various demos at clubs and as has been said above I'm also one of thehouse Doms with Notforsofties at the new HDZ event.
The sub is the one who is in charge, not the dom even thought to an outside person it may appear that way! |
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The world of Sub/Dom is a little strange.
In truth
The Sub gives herself freely and willingly
The Dom caters for her needs and keeps her safe
Everything else is shades of the above.
I'm very experienced with many verifications your welcome to read up.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The world of Sub/Dom is a little strange.
In truth
The Sub gives herself freely and willingly
The Dom caters for her needs and keeps her safe
Everything else is shades of the above.
I'm very experienced with many verifications your welcome to read up.
"
Your truth perhaps.
Not everyone's truth. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
For a start the OP should broaden her age range as often a good male Dom is experienced and will be older.
"
I actually this is horrible, terrible advice. The OP is 22 and says she's willing to meet men up to the age of 34.
Someone who is 34 can legally have been in the kink scene for 16 years, which Is a fair old time. Personally I'm 31 and I've been doing kink for 16 years myself - yet still older men try and insist that they have more experience than me even though they've only been doing it a minimal amount of time.
It's really hard being a submissive in your early twenties who is actually looking for sexual encounters. I know, I've been there. There are older men at every turn looking to prey on young women.
If anything is suggest that the OP lowers her age range to about thirty and heads along to clubs. Plenty of us young fetishists go to clubs and it's often much easier to meet young people in person. (To that end - if the OP wants to go to a fetish club in the midlands I'd be happy to go with her and keep an eye on her, no kink involved from me).
Don't compromise. Done raise age limits unless you genuinely want to. And you sure as hell shouldn't let older men talk you into doing things like that. |
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By *ed wineMan
over a year ago
Where the streets have no name |
OP, you are right when you say that some men confuse dominance with rough sex.
In this thread there are experienced people (more than me as far as it seems) that can help you.
Let me tell you one personal reflection, from my experience. Maybe some of the above coincide with me, maybe others don't...
I think that there is two different ways of enjoying dom/sub:
- One purely physical, where people practice it with certain "tools" and it is not necessary a deep acquaintance between them
- One emotional, where one person has a strong feeling of service, submission and dependence for the other
Of course, both ways can exist at once. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I also defend the right of bad doms to exist, what is not right for some is right for others. Doms have to start somewhere and despite the bull they do not arrive fully formed. There are no dom or master tests other than the satisfaction of the slave or sub, and there is no imperical measure of submission by which one unit of submission can be measured against another. "
I disagree. Being a dominant type is a position of power and responsibility. It is not for immature and self-centred people, who use kink to justify their boorish careless ways. Sure everyone has to learn, that is not the issue here (in fact there are plenty of experienced, sophisticated dominants who are in effect a glorified bully). One who doesn't understand the interdependent nature of D/s and consequently doesn't have respect or even awe for submissives is not fit for dominant roles, that's all. |
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By *az1Man
over a year ago
Birmingham |
Being dom isn't all about pounding down and having rough sex. It's more of an emotional/mental connection that stimulates the mind and body.
When looking for a regular/long term dom and sub relationship never rush in to it. X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The world of Sub/Dom is a little strange.
In truth
The Sub gives herself freely and willingly
The Dom caters for her needs and keeps her safe
Everything else is shades of the above.
I'm very experienced with many verifications your welcome to read up.
Your truth perhaps.
Not everyone's truth."
Please refrain from ascribing specific roles to specific genders. It may be outside your own experience but there are plenty of female Dom types, and plenty of male Doms that go for male subs. Do be aware that BDSM was practiced by the gay leather scenes for many, many decades before the hetero world caught up, and that many people today find refuge in the scene exactly because they don't fit in the limiting options you describe. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I also defend the right of bad doms to exist, what is not right for some is right for others. Doms have to start somewhere and despite the bull they do not arrive fully formed. There are no dom or master tests other than the satisfaction of the slave or sub, and there is no imperical measure of submission by which one unit of submission can be measured against another.
I disagree. Being a dominant type is a position of power and responsibility. It is not for immature and self-centred people, who use kink to justify their boorish careless ways. Sure everyone has to learn, that is not the issue here (in fact there are plenty of experienced, sophisticated dominants who are in effect a glorified bully). One who doesn't understand the interdependent nature of D/s and consequently doesn't have respect or even awe for submissives is not fit for dominant roles, that's all."
I would politely disagree with your disagreement on the following grounds, firstly it assumes every sub wants a warm and cuddly dom, and human relations show different people want different types of relations. Secondly people describe bad doms as ones whose approach they disagree and in fact the doms may not be bad people.
Thirdly I have seen enough sub profiles and pics on fetlife of subs being gangbanged to think, what the hell is she doing with him. That was until I ran into a sub who wanted hard impact play and then to be tied and gangbanged. I started to arrange the last two steps then passed as my heart was not in it. This also gives the lie to the claim the sub is in control. In fact the dom can decline as well.
I personally believe everyone should be treated with respect until they prove themselves idiot that is in vanilla life and in fetish. But I would argue that Obama supporters would say it is lunacy to have voted for Trump, however Trump supporters would say it is lunacy to have voted for Obama, likewise the Brexit divide. It is my view there is an orthodoxy or politically correct view as to how a dom should behave (which personally I support) but from my experience the politically correct approach is not the behaviour a significant number of subs choose in their dom and with whom they stay. Although they may describe their dom as being caring an independent third party would say he is a complete ass.
Finally without bad doms (being doms not to subs liking) many subs will not know what they consider is good. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'm not long out of a 'D/s' relationship. Was my first and was 'caught' by surprise. For almost 4 years I gave myself to him. I knew deep down he was a manipulator and a bully, but he'd gotten into my mind so much that I'd do anything he told me to. I learnt a lot about myself in terms of what I need sexually. I also needed cuddles (which never happened), so I'd be left sore and lonely after each session. At least I now know to be careful in my choosing in the future. |
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"I'm not long out of a 'D/s' relationship. Was my first and was 'caught' by surprise. For almost 4 years I gave myself to him. I knew deep down he was a manipulator and a bully, but he'd gotten into my mind so much that I'd do anything he told me to. I learnt a lot about myself in terms of what I need sexually. I also needed cuddles (which never happened), so I'd be left sore and lonely after each session. At least I now know to be careful in my choosing in the future. "
I once spoke to another sub who said she never got cuddles. If you need it and not getting it they're the wrong Dom for you.
A dominant without caring and compassion is at best just a bossy bully, at worst a sociopath. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm not long out of a 'D/s' relationship. Was my first and was 'caught' by surprise. For almost 4 years I gave myself to him. I knew deep down he was a manipulator and a bully, but he'd gotten into my mind so much that I'd do anything he told me to. I learnt a lot about myself in terms of what I need sexually. I also needed cuddles (which never happened), so I'd be left sore and lonely after each session. At least I now know to be careful in my choosing in the future.
I once spoke to another sub who said she never got cuddles. If you need it and not getting it they're the wrong Dom for you.
A dominant without caring and compassion is at best just a bossy bully, at worst a sociopath. "
I know that now. Always wanted out of it deep down but I never had the strength to. It was as if my mind had been taken over. I was in a spell x |
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"read alot, go to munches and talk and listen a lot, go on the kink site and get chatting and reading as much as you can..
mostly, once you know who you are, as a sub, you will know more about the exact type of dom, you are looking for and then it makes him easier to find.
its a journey of self exploration first..enjoy the journey x"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I had an experience with a dom. Went into it expecting to have to completely satisfy her. She didn't seem to know what she was at and I ended up taking control of the situation. Wasn't what I wanted at all. Roles were completely reversed but made the most of it. Still looking for a decent dom though. |
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"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated "
A true dom will never tell you what he will do in the first message, he will listen to you, what to hear you needs and desires and what you expect and want from the dynamic, the scenarios need to be thought of with you specially in mind as everyones needs are different, once you know each the fun will develop, he will then put his twist on your fantasy's, push your boundaries and take you to the edge of exploration.
A Mr Grey wannabe will think rough sex is dom, most of the sub/dom dynamic is in the mind xx |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"I had an experience with a dom. Went into it expecting to have to completely satisfy her. She didn't seem to know what she was at and I ended up taking control of the situation. Wasn't what I wanted at all. Roles were completely reversed but made the most of it. Still looking for a decent dom though."
not a Domme then huh?
|
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"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated
A true dom will never tell you what he will do in the first message, he will listen to you, what to hear you needs and desires and what you expect and want from the dynamic, the scenarios need to be thought of with you specially in mind as everyones needs are different, once you know each the fun will develop, he will then put his twist on your fantasy's, push your boundaries and take you to the edge of exploration.
A Mr Grey wannabe will think rough sex is dom, most of the sub/dom dynamic is in the mind xx"
This is what I'm looking for! X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I was very lucky to find a very compatible Dom on here after a rather fraught relationship with my first Dom.
The key thing is communication .... we trust each other. My Dom told me to read as much as possible and talk to other subs ...it was great advice! I found the book ..."Screw the roses give me the thorns" a fun and informative book.
A D/S relationship is amazing when it works ??
|
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"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated
A true dom will never tell you what he will do in the first message, he will listen to you, what to hear you needs and desires and what you expect and want from the dynamic, the scenarios need to be thought of with you specially in mind as everyones needs are different, once you know each the fun will develop, he will then put his twist on your fantasy's, push your boundaries and take you to the edge of exploration.
A Mr Grey wannabe will think rough sex is dom, most of the sub/dom dynamic is in the mind xx
This is what I'm looking for! X"
If only i could send you a private message lol xxx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated
A true dom will never tell you what he will do in the first message, he will listen to you, what to hear you needs and desires and what you expect and want from the dynamic, the scenarios need to be thought of with you specially in mind as everyones needs are different, once you know each the fun will develop, he will then put his twist on your fantasy's, push your boundaries and take you to the edge of exploration.
A Mr Grey wannabe will think rough sex is dom, most of the sub/dom dynamic is in the mind xx"
Not everyone works the same way and it's important not to tell people what a 'true dom' is, because the simple truth is that people like all sorts of different things when it comes to sex.
I'm not particularly interested in listening to what subs want. As long as we want roughly the same kind of dynamic (which is - they do what I tell them) then we're all good.
I'm also not interested in pushing boundaries mind you - and I think anyone who likes 'pushing boundaries' of a person is basically committing sexual assault (no is no, if they say no then it's a boundary).
I'm not interested in *their* fantasies. I'm interested in mine.
That doesn't make me a bad dominant, it just makes me incompatible with *you*. |
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Get onto a proper fet site. Go to a local munch or two and meet some "real life Doms", it will give you a much better idea of what you should expect than any amount of chatting or advice online will in my experience.
I've been submissive and out on the local (and not so local) fet scene for 10 years now, if you want someone to have a natter with about this stuff who has absolutely zero interest in playing with you and is simply willing to offer some advice then give me a shout.
Good luck!
XxX |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
the sub/dom dynamic is about giving power/control in different ways and within agreed boundaries - otherwise it degenerates into self-harm/abuse......communication, honesty and trust are essential and these take time to develop - that is why going to fet events/munches is so useful....you get to watch how respectful dom's can operate too, m x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The D/S relationship is surely all about power play. The Sub has to trust the Dom completely that he will take full responsibility for every aspect of her pleasure. It's about giving - The sub gives up all resistance, the dom gives total concentration to the exclusion of everything else. Ultimately, the sub is just as powerful as the dom. But it sure aint about beating each other up. |
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"I have found a true Female domme even harder to find.
Almost impossible
xjxyour profile doesnt say you are looking for one...maybe thats why xx
Site called fetlife. Will I get wrong for saying ?"
possibly you will and that sight is a bigger waste of space for doms than this sight |
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By *loppsyWoman
over a year ago
marlow |
I have read lots and chatted to people but would still love to meet someone I could explore my submissive side with. But as others have said all I seem to be offered is humiliation and pain from Doms...... not what I had in mind. X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
A switch makes a better dom. Always.
Because you've been on the "other side" you know how to behave, the tricks, the mind games etc that makes it so much fun. |
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"
possibly you will and that sight is a bigger waste of space for doms than this sight "
I have to disagree based on my own personal experience, admittedly we were spoiled for a long time with IC, but in terms of number who are into straight D/s having been on this and the other for years, the other has helped find me many more suitable Doms, through both munches and the site itself.
X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated
A true dom will never tell you what he will do in the first message, he will listen to you, what to hear you needs and desires and what you expect and want from the dynamic, the scenarios need to be thought of with you specially in mind as everyones needs are different, once you know each the fun will develop, he will then put his twist on your fantasy's, push your boundaries and take you to the edge of exploration.
A Mr Grey wannabe will think rough sex is dom, most of the sub/dom dynamic is in the mind xx
Not everyone works the same way and it's important not to tell people what a 'true dom' is, because the simple truth is that people like all sorts of different things when it comes to sex.
I'm not particularly interested in listening to what subs want. As long as we want roughly the same kind of dynamic (which is - they do what I tell them) then we're all good.
I'm also not interested in pushing boundaries mind you - and I think anyone who likes 'pushing boundaries' of a person is basically committing sexual assault (no is no, if they say no then it's a boundary).
I'm not interested in *their* fantasies. I'm interested in mine.
That doesn't make me a bad dominant, it just makes me incompatible with *you*."
Your last paragraph sums up neatly what I was trying to say. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I had an experience with a dom. Went into it expecting to have to completely satisfy her. She didn't seem to know what she was at and I ended up taking control of the situation. Wasn't what I wanted at all. Roles were completely reversed but made the most of it. Still looking for a decent dom though.not a Domme then huh?"
Def not. Claimed to be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Get onto a proper fet site. Go to a local munch or two and meet some "real life Doms", it will give you a much better idea of what you should expect than any amount of chatting or advice online will in my experience.
I've been submissive and out on the local (and not so local) fet scene for 10 years now, if you want someone to have a natter with about this stuff who has absolutely zero interest in playing with you and is simply willing to offer some advice then give me a shout.
Good luck!
XxX"
That's really kind |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A switch makes a better dom. Always.
Because you've been on the "other side" you know how to behave, the tricks, the mind games etc that makes it so much fun."
You're wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have found a true Female domme even harder to find.
Almost impossible
xjxyour profile doesnt say you are looking for one...maybe thats why xx
Site called fetlife. Will I get wrong for saying ?
possibly you will and that sight is a bigger waste of space for doms than this sight "
I disagree. I've been meeting people on there consistently for years. If you use the site to network in specialist groups and get out to events (and then keep in touch with people) then it's a really, really, really great resource. It's far easier to meet people there than here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A switch makes a better dom. Always.
Because you've been on the "other side" you know how to behave, the tricks, the mind games etc that makes it so much fun."
I would politely disagree. This is similar to the argument that people of the same sex can satisfy their own sex better than someone of the other sex which is a fallacy as it always depends on the quality of the lover.
I would suggest the distinction being missed is between those that want to be dominated and wanting a dominant.
If you want to run with wolves, running down Croydon high street with a pack of well trained dogs is not the same.
I would suggest your claim is made as a switch and not as a submissive that does not switch. In all things I would suggest it is the compatibility and the connection of the sub and dominant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Message me as I can't message you I'm out of your age range. There's a lot me to being Dom than rough sex I take it you are after a master and an owner"
Really Mr DaveX tell me more x
For everyone..... Question for you....
Who has overall power and control? The dom or the sub? X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated "
It mainly comes down to chemistry - even more than conventional sex. Like others have said the best way is clubs, munches and taking your time. When you find someone suitable it will rock your world. Big style. Just don't get lumbered with some big headed know-all ! |
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"That's really kind "
Thank you
I was lucky in that when I discovered kink there was an awesome UK site that had hundreds and hundreds of people doing the same for everyone else. My turn to pay it back a bit now!
XxX |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's really kind
Thank you
I was lucky in that when I discovered kink there was an awesome UK site that had hundreds and hundreds of people doing the same for everyone else. My turn to pay it back a bit now!
XxX"
Informed Consent by any chance?
(Admin don't remove it - the site doesn't exist anymore). |
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"
Informed Consent by any chance?
(Admin don't remove it - the site doesn't exist anymore)."
Yes! Absolutely loved that site, and still miss it, I'd happily have all the drama, trolling, smooing, repeated threads, chatroom drama and the lot back for the things it did bring to the kink world in the UK.
XxX |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Message me as I can't message you I'm out of your age range. There's a lot me to being Dom than rough sex I take it you are after a master and an owner
Really Mr DaveX tell me more x
For everyone..... Question for you....
Who has overall power and control? The dom or the sub? X"
In what I would consider a properly functioning relationship neither has overall control. The sub always has the right to withdraw consent to access to their body. The dom has the absolute right not to do anything they do not want to do and to walk away from unacceptable behaviour from the sub. If the sub has control of the relationship then it is topping from the bottom.
However at the end of the day it is down to each individual relationship, there is no one size fits all relationship. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Informed Consent by any chance?
(Admin don't remove it - the site doesn't exist anymore).
Yes! Absolutely loved that site, and still miss it, I'd happily have all the drama, trolling, smooing, repeated threads, chatroom drama and the lot back for the things it did bring to the kink world in the UK.
XxX"
I miss IC as well. It had a unique atmosphere/culture and it 'worked' better than any other similar site then or since |
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I have had a master for nearly two years. It takes time and trust must be built up. They get to know your limits and know your body. Don't just rush into the first one the at says they woll own u. U need to feel safe xx good luck |
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"Having an age limit won't help you find a proper dom"
I've certainly come across some very skilled Dominants in the 23 to 34 age range so don't worry about that OP. However, there are chancers of every age. Look at how your potential Dominant treats all people not just the people they're playing with.
|
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By *s HartWoman
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
I'll assume you've done plenty of research to cone to the conclusion you are submissive.
F*etlife is good for networking (it's not a hook up site like fab) and meeting like-minded people. There are lots of wanna be dom/mes out there.
I'd suggest getting out to the local munches and meet people. The northeast has a very healthy and friendly bdsm/kink/fetish scene. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Newcastle, Durham, Sunderland, Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough all run monthly munches."
Darlington would be best for me..so where do I search for them on here, f e t l I f e or somewhere else? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The next Darlington munch is on the 15th. I'd suggest joining the other site and doing some research and adding yourself to the event listing.
The host is a nice guy."
Thanks I'll check it out..I just find the other site a bit hard to navigate around but I'll get there |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We have been in a dom/sub relationship since last year. We originally met on here so they are some genuine people out there. its definitely not about hard fucking in our case. I long to please him and can be very 'needy' but he knows how to look after me when I am like that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
My only advice is follow to your instinct. Do chat to as many people as possible and perhaps go to a club on a bdsm night. What is a Dom anyway? A big Masterful bloke who spanks your bum? :-/. There's a lot more to it, both being a Dom and a submissive.
Don't be afraid to ask as many questions as you wish it's a learning curve for both the Dom and Sub when getting to know each other. Not unlike a vanilla relationship there has to chemistry for it to work. I would stay away from anyone who is disrespectful in anyway and aim to have fun! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm wanting to find someone dominant that knows what they're doing. A lot of guys that are messaging me just seem to think it's rough fucking when it's not. I'm just wondering how to get more experience with a dom, or just easiest way to find one? Any tips would be appreciated "
Fetlife is brilliant. Will happily find so.eone on there local to you hun |
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"Having an age limit won't help you find a proper dom"
How do arrive to this conclusion? Age has nothing to do with it.
The sub will know who she will offer her submission to regardless of age. Within her age limit she will find her Dom.  |
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"
Informed Consent by any chance?
(Admin don't remove it - the site doesn't exist anymore).
Yes! Absolutely loved that site, and still miss it, I'd happily have all the drama, trolling, smooing, repeated threads, chatroom drama and the lot back for the things it did bring to the kink world in the UK.
XxX
I miss IC as well. It had a unique atmosphere/culture and it 'worked' better than any other similar site then or since "
Agreed, one did offer similar functionality, but just never had the numbers to make it worthwhile. I kept trying with it, but the atmosphere just wasn't there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Informed Consent by any chance?
(Admin don't remove it - the site doesn't exist anymore).
Yes! Absolutely loved that site, and still miss it, I'd happily have all the drama, trolling, smooing, repeated threads, chatroom drama and the lot back for the things it did bring to the kink world in the UK.
XxX
I miss IC as well. It had a unique atmosphere/culture and it 'worked' better than any other similar site then or since
Agreed, one did offer similar functionality, but just never had the numbers to make it worthwhile. I kept trying with it, but the atmosphere just wasn't there."
There is also collarspace but it seems to fullmof timewasters and men pretending to be be women lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Informed Consent by any chance?
(Admin don't remove it - the site doesn't exist anymore).
Yes! Absolutely loved that site, and still miss it, I'd happily have all the drama, trolling, smooing, repeated threads, chatroom drama and the lot back for the things it did bring to the kink world in the UK.
XxX
I miss IC as well. It had a unique atmosphere/culture and it 'worked' better than any other similar site then or since
Agreed, one did offer similar functionality, but just never had the numbers to make it worthwhile. I kept trying with it, but the atmosphere just wasn't there.
There is also collarspace but it seems to fullmof timewasters and men pretending to be be women lol"
that's the only fet site i haven't been messed about on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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good advice given here.
unfortunately fab doesn't like people talking about other sites, as there are sites better suited to D?S matters to work hand in hand with having a presence on Fab... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Having an age limit won't help you find a proper dom
How do arrive to this conclusion? Age has nothing to do with it.
The sub will know who she will offer her submission to regardless of age. Within her age limit she will find her Dom. "
there is an argument against age restrictiosn when seeking D?S relationships , especially if you place your upper limit too young ... what an inexperienced young sub really Doesn;t need is some youth who thinks he is a 'Master' doing him/ her some serious harm either mental or physical
I personnally support the view point that D?S relationships are best found by being active on the kink scene and also be interacting and possibly playign with a number of different people initially , firstly to understand your own dominance/ submission and how others can use that toget the desired effect.
people lookingto leap straight into a collared' relationship put themselves at great risk of beign put right off
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Munches are social group meets for kinksters"
and thanks to Fab's attitude towards posting other sites it;s going to be hard to point people in the direction of themore comprehensive listings |
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Avoid anyone whose name references that 50 Shades drivel.
Read. Loads.
Don't let anyone tell you they are a "true Dom". They don't exist, every dynamic is different.
Be patient. A single sub female is like catnip to wannabes, there are a lot of potentially dangerous and manipulative gits out there.
Enjoy! There's so much fun to be had
(I too miss IC. Shame nothing has replaced it. Fet just doesn't cut it  ) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Informed Consent by any chance?
(Admin don't remove it - the site doesn't exist anymore).
Yes! Absolutely loved that site, and still miss it, I'd happily have all the drama, trolling, smooing, repeated threads, chatroom drama and the lot back for the things it did bring to the kink world in the UK.
XxX
I miss IC as well. It had a unique atmosphere/culture and it 'worked' better than any other similar site then or since
Agreed, one did offer similar functionality, but just never had the numbers to make it worthwhile. I kept trying with it, but the atmosphere just wasn't there."
Oh hello! I know you. |
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"Avoid anyone whose name references that 50 Shades drivel.
Read. Loads.
Don't let anyone tell you they are a "true Dom". They don't exist, every dynamic is different.
Be patient. A single sub female is like catnip to wannabes, there are a lot of potentially dangerous and manipulative gits out there.
Enjoy! There's so much fun to be had
(I too miss IC. Shame nothing has replaced it. Fet just doesn't cut it ) "
*waves* I'm another IC veteran! |
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"Having an age limit won't help you find a proper dom"
Absolute tosh! I have an age limit when I'm looking. I don't want some old fellas hands all over me.
Some younger folk are far better dom/me than the older I know everything because I have a leather waistcoat parade. |
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